Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:04:37 +0200 Zaher Dirkey wrote: > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Mattias Gaertner > wrote: > > > On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:57:39 +0200 > > Zaher Dirkey wrote: > > > > > uses > > > > > > >myunit in '..\lib\myunit.pas', > > > > > > > > it is no need to change it even in the search path. > > > > > > > > > > > I meant my project have folders like > > > /proj/bin > > > /proj/src > > > /proj/lib > > > i can move the dir /proj or my component package to any dir without need > > a > > > changes. > > > > So it is with search paths. They don't need to change when you move > > your /proj. > > I don't see your point. > > > > > If i have project use some source of components,not use *.o files, > My proj1 use component lib1.pas but lib1.pas need unit unit1.pas in sub dir > (/mylib/src/sqlite/unit1.pas) of same dir of lib1.pas > > /proj1/bin > /proj1/src > /proj1/lib > /proj1/addons > > /mylib/src > /mylib/src/sqlite/ > /mylib/src/firebird/ > > in fact i must add all in search path, while if i put in /mylib/src/lib1.pas > in uses > uses > sqlite in './sqlite/sqlite.pas'; > > now i can move copy to friends, make it from another platform > (linux/windows) and send the examples without worry about the paths, may be > i need to change one path Changing a search path is simple. And with Lazarus projects/package you don't even have to adapt search paths when moving projects/packages on disk or to other computers. But when you move some units around in your project, then you must check all 'in'. With search paths you only have to check one place. And again Lazarus and MSEGui helps you here. > May be the point got when i build site using PHP :) I still think, search paths are in almost all cases easier and more powerful than 'in'. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:37 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:57:39 +0200 > Zaher Dirkey wrote: > > > uses > > > > >myunit in '..\lib\myunit.pas', > > > > > > it is no need to change it even in the search path. > > > > > > > > I meant my project have folders like > > /proj/bin > > /proj/src > > /proj/lib > > i can move the dir /proj or my component package to any dir without need > a > > changes. > > So it is with search paths. They don't need to change when you move > your /proj. > I don't see your point. > > If i have project use some source of components,not use *.o files, My proj1 use component lib1.pas but lib1.pas need unit unit1.pas in sub dir (/mylib/src/sqlite/unit1.pas) of same dir of lib1.pas /proj1/bin /proj1/src /proj1/lib /proj1/addons /mylib/src /mylib/src/sqlite/ /mylib/src/firebird/ in fact i must add all in search path, while if i put in /mylib/src/lib1.pas in uses uses sqlite in './sqlite/sqlite.pas'; now i can move copy to friends, make it from another platform (linux/windows) and send the examples without worry about the paths, may be i need to change one path May be the point got when i build site using PHP :) Thanks -- Zaher Dirkey ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:57:39 +0200 Zaher Dirkey wrote: > uses > > >myunit in '..\lib\myunit.pas', > > > > it is no need to change it even in the search path. > > > > > I meant my project have folders like > /proj/bin > /proj/src > /proj/lib > i can move the dir /proj or my component package to any dir without need a > changes. So it is with search paths. They don't need to change when you move your /proj. I don't see your point. > The other way we can use extrafpc.cfg, we can put relative path in > "-Fu..\lib", but if you use units of packages you need to put many of pathes Or use lazarus or msegui or makefiles or whatever build system you prefer. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Zaher Dirkey wrote: > 2010/7/19 Mattias Gärtner >> >> Even then: If you move/rename a directory with target units, you have to >> adapt all 'in' of using units. >> If you use search paths you only have to adapt one. > > example > > uses > myunit in '..\lib\myunit.pas', ... > > it is no need to change it even in the search path. I agree. But I agree too the search path has advantages... because that I mentioned keep the both (today, it is, right?). And, in addition, I sugest to implement a new syntax for units of the same name using "IN" and "AS" as bellow: uses zip IN '/units/my/zip.pas' AS myzip; zip IN '/units/lib/zip/zip.pas' AS ziplib; ...someone liked the idea? :( MD ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
uses >myunit in '..\lib\myunit.pas', > > it is no need to change it even in the search path. > > I meant my project have folders like /proj/bin /proj/src /proj/lib i can move the dir /proj or my component package to any dir without need a changes. The other way we can use extrafpc.cfg, we can put relative path in "-Fu..\lib", but if you use units of packages you need to put many of pathes Best regards -- Zaher Dirkey ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
2010/7/19 Mattias Gärtner > Even then: If you move/rename a directory with target units, you have to > adapt all 'in' of using units. > If you use search paths you only have to adapt one. > example uses myunit in '..\lib\myunit.pas', ... it is no need to change it even in the search path. -- Zaher Dirkey ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Zitat von Zaher Dirkey : On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote: On 11 Jul 2010, at 15:47, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it really good for? > > AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) only absolute filenames are implemented, That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved relative to the current working directory of the compiler. It is more useful if relative to same directory of the current file, i can move or copy my projects/lib easly without need to change the .cfg or my project options. Even then: If you move/rename a directory with target units, you have to adapt all 'in' of using units. If you use search paths you only have to adapt one. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote: > > On 11 Jul 2010, at 15:47, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > > > I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is > it really good for? > > > > AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) > only absolute filenames are implemented, > > That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved relative > to the current working directory of the compiler. > > It is more useful if relative to same directory of the current file, i can move or copy my projects/lib easly without need to change the .cfg or my project options. Best regards -- Zaher Dirkey ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Mattias Gaertner
wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:26:24 -0300
> Marcos Douglas wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Stefan Kisdaroczi wrote:
>> > I'm still using it. Or make a symlink:
>> > ln -s rar/zip.pas rar.pas
>> >
>> > In combination with {$L xzy.o} and 'external name ...' you can do
>> > wonderful things. Don't do this at home! (maybe at work :-)
>>
>> Okay... this is very sophisticated. I have not used it (yet) but this
>> is not so simple.
>> I still thinking my sugestion (in other mail, and copied below) is a good
>> way:
>>
>> uses
>> zip IN '/units/my/zip.pas' AS myzip;
>> zip IN '/units/lib/zip/zip.pas' AS ziplib;
>
> What is the 'zip in' good for?
This is a sugestion of sintaxe, if you have 2 units with the same name...
>> 2 units, same name, different paths and different "aliases" to use in
>> project.
>
> It means the compiler must rename all internal names of at least one of
> the units and must adapt all .o files that use that unit.
> What should the compiler do, if it finds a unit that "uses zip;"? Which
> one should it use?
In my example, a compiler error would happen because you would used
'uses myzip;' or 'uses ziplib;'
Again, this is a suggestion... I do not understand so much of
compilers. If this not possible, is Okay for me.
MD
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:26:24 -0300
Marcos Douglas wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Stefan Kisdaroczi wrote:
> > I'm still using it. Or make a symlink:
> > ln -s rar/zip.pas rar.pas
> >
> > In combination with {$L xzy.o} and 'external name ...' you can do
> > wonderful things. Don't do this at home! (maybe at work :-)
>
> Okay... this is very sophisticated. I have not used it (yet) but this
> is not so simple.
> I still thinking my sugestion (in other mail, and copied below) is a good way:
>
> uses
> zip IN '/units/my/zip.pas' AS myzip;
> zip IN '/units/lib/zip/zip.pas' AS ziplib;
What is the 'zip in' good for?
> 2 units, same name, different paths and different "aliases" to use in project.
It means the compiler must rename all internal names of at least one of
the units and must adapt all .o files that use that unit.
What should the compiler do, if it finds a unit that "uses zip;"? Which
one should it use?
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 7:06 PM, José Mejuto wrote:
> > I can vaguely remember a case like this in Delphi several years ago,
> > but I think the problem was a precompiled .dcu which I can not rename.
> > Is this possible ?
>
> ...but my sugestion do no serves for compiled files... or serves?
Mattias
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:35 PM, Stefan Kisdaroczi wrote:
> I'm still using it. Or make a symlink:
> ln -s rar/zip.pas rar.pas
>
> In combination with {$L xzy.o} and 'external name ...' you can do
> wonderful things. Don't do this at home! (maybe at work :-)
Okay... this is very sophisticated. I have not used it (yet) but this
is not so simple.
I still thinking my sugestion (in other mail, and copied below) is a good way:
uses
zip IN '/units/my/zip.pas' AS myzip;
zip IN '/units/lib/zip/zip.pas' AS ziplib;
2 units, same name, different paths and different "aliases" to use in project.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 7:06 PM, José Mejuto wrote:
> I can vaguely remember a case like this in Delphi several years ago,
> but I think the problem was a precompiled .dcu which I can not rename.
> Is this possible ?
...but my sugestion do no serves for compiled files... or serves?
Regards,
MD.
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
But why should they sue an open source MS-DOS clone [snip] Please take that discussion to the fpc-other list. Jonas FPC mailing lists admin This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Hi! Am 15.07.2010 09:49, schrieb Michael Schnell: On 07/14/2010 09:40 PM, Sven Barth wrote: (Can someone comment on FreeDOS regarding this?) If it's file system provides ;MS-DOS-style long filenames, users of same might be sued by M$ (like TomTom). But why should they sue an open source MS-DOS clone when they're trying to get their costumers to upgrade to Windows 7? I'd more "understand" if they'd sue ReactOS in the near future... or Linux, because it is "the root of all evil". Regards, Sven ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 07/14/2010 11:35 PM, Stefan Kisdaroczi wrote: Or make a symlink: Happily even Windows NTFS does support symlinks, even though hardly anybody uses this. ;) -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 07/14/2010 09:40 PM, Sven Barth wrote: (Can someone comment on FreeDOS regarding this?) If it's file system provides ;MS-DOS-style long filenames, users of same might be sued by M$ (like TomTom). -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re[2]: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Hello Mattias, Wednesday, July 14, 2010, 7:05:01 PM, you wrote: >> And now, you understood the little problem? MG> Of course I understand the problem, but I have not yet encountered MG> it in a real project. I can vaguely remember a case like this in Delphi several years ago, but I think the problem was a precompiled .dcu which I can not rename. Is this possible ? -- Best regards, José ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Marcos Douglas schrieb:
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Stefan Kisdaroczi wrote:
>> create a rar.pas containing only the line:
>> {$include rar/zip.pas}
>>
>> compile with:
>> fpc -Un rar.pas
>>
>> -UnDo not check where the unit name matches the file name
>
> Interesting...
> Anyone ever used this?
I'm still using it. Or make a symlink:
ln -s rar/zip.pas rar.pas
In combination with {$L xzy.o} and 'external name ...' you can do
wonderful things. Don't do this at home! (maybe at work :-)
Stefan
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Hi! On 14.07.2010 15:36, Adem wrote: Is there, still, a platform (where FPC can be used) that restricts filenames to being so short? FPC still supports DOS, which only supports 8.3 filenames, if I'm informed correctly. (Can someone comment on FreeDOS regarding this?) Regards, Sven ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote: > In our previous episode, Marcos Douglas said: >> > sure that that all filenames are unique. This because there are still two >> > uses clauses will cause problems. >> >> You're right :( >> And if we can do that: >> uses >> zip IN '/units/my/zip.pas' AS myzip; >> zip IN '/units/lib/zip/zip.pas' AS ziplib; >> >> Now, I can point the real path and I can use 'n' units with the same name. >> What do you think about it? > > Still the same problem. If you forget one, or do one wrongly, it will become > a mess. Better avoid the mess altogether, and keep unique names. > > Moreover, everybody still has to edit everything to > substitute their own paths. Not still, you know... ;-) But I agree it will (maybe) become a mess. However this would be an option (not default) for this some cases. Considering that "in" syntax is still existing... ;-) Well, just my 2 cents... MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Stefan Kisdaroczi wrote:
>
> create a rar.pas containing only the line:
> {$include rar/zip.pas}
>
> compile with:
> fpc -Un rar.pas
>
> -Un Do not check where the unit name matches the file name
Interesting...
Anyone ever used this?
MD.
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
In our previous episode, Marcos Douglas said: > > sure that that all filenames are unique. This because there are still two > > uses clauses will cause problems. > > You're right :( > And if we can do that: > uses > zip IN '/units/my/zip.pas' AS myzip; > zip IN '/units/lib/zip/zip.pas' AS ziplib; > > Now, I can point the real path and I can use 'n' units with the same name. > What do you think about it? Still the same problem. If you forget one, or do one wrongly, it will become a mess. Better avoid the mess altogether, and keep unique names. Moreover, everybody still has to edit everything to substitute their own paths. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 14.07.2010 18:54, Marcos Douglas wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Mattias Gaertner
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:51:29 -0300
>> Marcos Douglas wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Mattias Gaertner
>>> wrote:
>>>
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:23:00 -0300
Marcos Douglas wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Mattias Gaertner
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:26:11 -0300
>> Marcos Douglas wrote:
>>
> [...]
>
>>> I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC /
>>> Lazarus.
>>>
>> Of course there are. For example unit dialogs. This is solved by the
>> search path.
>>
> And if do you have your own unit Dialogs too, what you do?
>
Me? I would rename my unit.
>>> Hum... Okay, but if this unit (Dialogs, in your example) is part of
>>> another framework, not yours?
>>>
>> I would tell the devels of the framework.
>> And if they want to keep it, then I can not use both Dialogs units. I
>> had not yet the case where I needed both and can not rename both.
>>
> Then, another example:
> You want to work with ZIP and RAR format files. So, imagine you found,
> on the net, 2 libs, one for each type format. The problem is each lib
> uses the same name to main unit e.g. zip.pas.
>
> Both libs are very used by million of people on the world and they,
> the developers do not want to change the name of yours unit.
>
create a rar.pas containing only the line:
{$include rar/zip.pas}
compile with:
fpc -Un rar.pas
-UnDo not check where the unit name matches the file name
regards
Stefan
> And now, you understood the little problem?
>
>
> MD.
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote: > In our previous episode, Marcos Douglas said: >> > And if they want to keep it, then I can not use both Dialogs units. I >> > had not yet the case where I needed both and can not rename both. >> >> Then, another example: >> You want to work with ZIP and RAR format files. So, imagine you found, >> on the net, 2 libs, one for each type format. The problem is each lib >> uses the same name to main unit e.g. zip.pas. >> >> Both libs are very used by million of people on the world and they, >> the developers do not want to change the name of yours unit. > > I would say thats is a pretty strange situation, since those million people > will all have the same problem... Remember, this is an example... > ... and won't like adding xxx in 'yyy' to all > uses, and edit one of those packages to fix that everytime a new release > comes out. Exactly! On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Marco van de Voort wrote: > In our previous episode, Marcos Douglas said: >> >> And now, you understood the little problem? >> > >> > Of course I understand the problem, but I have not yet encountered >> > it in a real project. >> >> So, if we can to put an alias to unit names, there are no more problem. >> I had this problem in real projects. Always happen with the units that >> have very short names or names that are very generic. Therefore, most >> of the frameworks put a prefix in the units. > > Note that the " in" syntax is not a cure all similar to prefixing and making > sure that that all filenames are unique. This because there are still two > units with the same name in the searchpath, and one mistake in fixing the > uses clauses will cause problems. You're right :( And if we can do that: uses zip IN '/units/my/zip.pas' AS myzip; zip IN '/units/lib/zip/zip.pas' AS ziplib; Now, I can point the real path and I can use 'n' units with the same name. What do you think about it? > Moreover, I agree mostly with Mattias in that dealing quickly with rare > cases is a lot less work then heavy handed approaches to 'fix' the problem. Yes, I agree with you. MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
In our previous episode, Marcos Douglas said: > >> And now, you understood the little problem? > > > > Of course I understand the problem, but I have not yet encountered > > it in a real project. > > So, if we can to put an alias to unit names, there are no more problem. > I had this problem in real projects. Always happen with the units that > have very short names or names that are very generic. Therefore, most > of the frameworks put a prefix in the units. Note that the " in" syntax is not a cure all similar to prefixing and making sure that that all filenames are unique. This because there are still two units with the same name in the searchpath, and one mistake in fixing the uses clauses will cause problems. Moreover, I agree mostly with Mattias in that dealing quickly with rare cases is a lot less work then heavy handed approaches to 'fix' the problem. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
In our previous episode, Marcos Douglas said: > > And if they want to keep it, then I can not use both Dialogs units. I > > had not yet the case where I needed both and can not rename both. > > Then, another example: > You want to work with ZIP and RAR format files. So, imagine you found, > on the net, 2 libs, one for each type format. The problem is each lib > uses the same name to main unit e.g. zip.pas. > > Both libs are very used by million of people on the world and they, > the developers do not want to change the name of yours unit. I would say thats is a pretty strange situation, since those million people will all have the same problem, and won't like adding xxx in 'yyy' to all uses, and edit one of those packages to fix that everytime a new release comes out. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:54:10 -0300 > Marcos Douglas wrote: > >>[...] >> > I would tell the devels of the framework. >> > And if they want to keep it, then I can not use both Dialogs units. I >> > had not yet the case where I needed both and can not rename both. >> >> Then, another example: >> You want to work with ZIP and RAR format files. So, imagine you found, >> on the net, 2 libs, one for each type format. The problem is each lib >> uses the same name to main unit e.g. zip.pas. >> >> Both libs are very used by million of people on the world and they, >> the developers do not want to change the name of yours unit. > > Do you have the links to the two projects? No, that was an example... >> And now, you understood the little problem? > > Of course I understand the problem, but I have not yet encountered > it in a real project. So, if we can to put an alias to unit names, there are no more problem. I had this problem in real projects. Always happen with the units that have very short names or names that are very generic. Therefore, most of the frameworks put a prefix in the units. BTW, I use "my" prefix for units of project (e.g. myparser, mytextutils, mydb, etc). If I create a lib, I choose other prefix. MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:54:10 -0300 Marcos Douglas wrote: >[...] > > I would tell the devels of the framework. > > And if they want to keep it, then I can not use both Dialogs units. I > > had not yet the case where I needed both and can not rename both. > > Then, another example: > You want to work with ZIP and RAR format files. So, imagine you found, > on the net, 2 libs, one for each type format. The problem is each lib > uses the same name to main unit e.g. zip.pas. > > Both libs are very used by million of people on the world and they, > the developers do not want to change the name of yours unit. Do you have the links to the two projects? > And now, you understood the little problem? Of course I understand the problem, but I have not yet encountered it in a real project. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:51:29 -0300 > Marcos Douglas wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Mattias Gaertner >> wrote: >> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:23:00 -0300 >> > Marcos Douglas wrote: >> > >> >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Mattias Gaertner >> >> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:26:11 -0300 >> >> > Marcos Douglas wrote: >> >>[...] >> >> >> I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / >> >> >> Lazarus. >> >> > >> >> > Of course there are. For example unit dialogs. This is solved by the >> >> > search path. >> >> >> >> And if do you have your own unit Dialogs too, what you do? >> > >> > Me? I would rename my unit. >> >> Hum... Okay, but if this unit (Dialogs, in your example) is part of >> another framework, not yours? > > I would tell the devels of the framework. > And if they want to keep it, then I can not use both Dialogs units. I > had not yet the case where I needed both and can not rename both. Then, another example: You want to work with ZIP and RAR format files. So, imagine you found, on the net, 2 libs, one for each type format. The problem is each lib uses the same name to main unit e.g. zip.pas. Both libs are very used by million of people on the world and they, the developers do not want to change the name of yours unit. And now, you understood the little problem? MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:51:29 -0300 Marcos Douglas wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Mattias Gaertner > wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:23:00 -0300 > > Marcos Douglas wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Mattias Gaertner > >> wrote: > >> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:26:11 -0300 > >> > Marcos Douglas wrote: > >>[...] > >> >> I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / > >> >> Lazarus. > >> > > >> > Of course there are. For example unit dialogs. This is solved by the > >> > search path. > >> > >> And if do you have your own unit Dialogs too, what you do? > > > > Me? I would rename my unit. > > Hum... Okay, but if this unit (Dialogs, in your example) is part of > another framework, not yours? I would tell the devels of the framework. And if they want to keep it, then I can not use both Dialogs units. I had not yet the case where I needed both and can not rename both. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:23:00 -0300 > Marcos Douglas wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Mattias Gaertner >> wrote: >> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:26:11 -0300 >> > Marcos Douglas wrote: >>[...] >> >> I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / >> >> Lazarus. >> > >> > Of course there are. For example unit dialogs. This is solved by the >> > search path. >> >> And if do you have your own unit Dialogs too, what you do? > > Me? I would rename my unit. Hum... Okay, but if this unit (Dialogs, in your example) is part of another framework, not yours? MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:23:00 -0300 Marcos Douglas wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Mattias Gaertner > wrote: > > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:26:11 -0300 > > Marcos Douglas wrote: >[...] > >> I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / > >> Lazarus. > > > > Of course there are. For example unit dialogs. This is solved by the > > search path. > > And if do you have your own unit Dialogs too, what you do? Me? I would rename my unit. Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:45 AM, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:26:11 -0300 > Marcos Douglas wrote: > >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich >> wrote: >> > Thaddy schrieb: >> > >> >> Programmers are not very imaginative in naming. It is plainly helpfull to >> >> be able to rename a file if another file with a different content. >> > >> > Just in the FPC compiler case many unit names are hard coded, while the >> > files to use reside e.g. in a specific machine directory, selected in the >> > search path. When it becomes desireable to replace only one of these files, >> > as happened to me, then a solution could be to name that replacement file >> > differently from its contained unit name. >> > >> > Then it would be helpful to allow for exchangable file names, at least at >> > project/program level. Only then one can be sure that a specific file is >> > used across the entire project, regardless of all other files in the search >> > path. >> >> I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / >> Lazarus. > > Of course there are. For example unit dialogs. This is solved by the > search path. And if do you have your own unit Dialogs too, what you do? > There are even conflicting names in the system unit. For example the > system unit has a THandle that is 32bit under linux 64bit, but Lazarus > needs a THandle that is 64bit under 64bit. Gladfully the system unit is > searched last. > MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:26:11 -0300 Marcos Douglas wrote: > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich > wrote: > > Thaddy schrieb: > > > >> Programmers are not very imaginative in naming. It is plainly helpfull to > >> be able to rename a file if another file with a different content. > > > > Just in the FPC compiler case many unit names are hard coded, while the > > files to use reside e.g. in a specific machine directory, selected in the > > search path. When it becomes desireable to replace only one of these files, > > as happened to me, then a solution could be to name that replacement file > > differently from its contained unit name. > > > > Then it would be helpful to allow for exchangable file names, at least at > > project/program level. Only then one can be sure that a specific file is > > used across the entire project, regardless of all other files in the search > > path. > > I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / Lazarus. Of course there are. For example unit dialogs. This is solved by the search path. There are even conflicting names in the system unit. For example the system unit has a THandle that is 32bit under linux 64bit, but Lazarus needs a THandle that is 64bit under 64bit. Gladfully the system unit is searched last. > There are names very short, which could be used as variable names... Mattias ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
2010/7/14 Adem : > On 2010-07-14 16:26, Marcos Douglas wrote: >> >> I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / >> Lazarus. >> There are names very short, which could be used as variable names... > > Is there, still, a platform (where FPC can be used) that restricts filenames > to being so short? I don't know... but I like short names. I prefer (in many cases) to use the sintaxe unit.function() or unit.obj or unit.const, etc. to not have conflicts names, however if a unit name has a short (and conflicting) name, the problem remains. MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 2010-07-14 16:26, Marcos Douglas wrote: I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / Lazarus. There are names very short, which could be used as variable names... Is there, still, a platform (where FPC can be used) that restricts filenames to being so short? Cheers, Adem ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > Thaddy schrieb: > >> Programmers are not very imaginative in naming. It is plainly helpfull to >> be able to rename a file if another file with a different content. > > Just in the FPC compiler case many unit names are hard coded, while the > files to use reside e.g. in a specific machine directory, selected in the > search path. When it becomes desireable to replace only one of these files, > as happened to me, then a solution could be to name that replacement file > differently from its contained unit name. > > Then it would be helpful to allow for exchangable file names, at least at > project/program level. Only then one can be sure that a specific file is > used across the entire project, regardless of all other files in the search > path. I am surprised as there is no conflict of names of units in the FPC / Lazarus. There are names very short, which could be used as variable names... MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Thaddy schrieb: Programmers are not very imaginative in naming. It is plainly helpfull to be able to rename a file if another file with a different content. Just in the FPC compiler case many unit names are hard coded, while the files to use reside e.g. in a specific machine directory, selected in the search path. When it becomes desireable to replace only one of these files, as happened to me, then a solution could be to name that replacement file differently from its contained unit name. Then it would be helpful to allow for exchangable file names, at least at project/program level. Only then one can be sure that a specific file is used across the entire project, regardless of all other files in the search path. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: > In our previous episode, Thaddy said: >> > >> Yes, but that defeats unit aliasing by renaming: like "uses foo in >> "bar.pas"" instead of "uses foo" (implies "in foo.pas"). Did somebody >> mention this in the discussion? > >> Programmers are not very imaginative in naming. It is plainly helpfull >> to be able to rename a file if another file with a different content. > > I really wonder what the point is of such hack. You still have to walk all > references to add ( in ' '), so you might as well do a proper rename. > > In the past it was sometimes used to have long unit names refer to 8.3 > filenames, but I haven't really cared about 8.3 for almost a decade now. I prefer to use search path instead of "in", but I think it's a good idea to use aliases for units. As Thaddy said "Programmers are not very imaginative in naming". I agree. I always nominate my units with prefix to haven't name conflicts with other units. MD. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Marco van de Voort wrote: In our previous episode, Thaddy said: Ok, you write always cheerful, I was merely pointing out it is not clean, but useful :)) ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
In our previous episode, Thaddy said: > > > Yes, but that defeats unit aliasing by renaming: like "uses foo in > "bar.pas"" instead of "uses foo" (implies "in foo.pas"). Did somebody > mention this in the discussion? > Programmers are not very imaginative in naming. It is plainly helpfull > to be able to rename a file if another file with a different content. I really wonder what the point is of such hack. You still have to walk all references to add ( in ' '), so you might as well do a proper rename. In the past it was sometimes used to have long unit names refer to 8.3 filenames, but I haven't really cared about 8.3 for almost a decade now. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Michael Schnell wrote: On 07/13/2010 06:27 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote: b) indeed also because of the searching for filenames with different cases. It might sometimes indeed make sens to not be forced to use the same name for the unit and the file containing it's source code. So using "in" with just a file name, without the obviously non-portable directory notation, and thus (hopefully) having the compiler search in the normal unit search path does make sense. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3003 - Release Date: 07/13/10 20:36:00 Yes, but that defeats unit aliasing by renaming: like "uses foo in "bar.pas"" instead of "uses foo" (implies "in foo.pas"). Did somebody mention this in the discussion? Programmers are not very imaginative in naming. It is plainly helpfull to be able to rename a file if another file with a different content. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 07/13/2010 06:27 PM, Jonas Maebe wrote: b) indeed also because of the searching for filenames with different cases. It might sometimes indeed make sens to not be forced to use the same name for the unit and the file containing it's source code. So using "in" with just a file name, without the obviously non-portable directory notation, and thus (hopefully) having the compiler search in the normal unit search path does make sense. -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Marco van de Voort wrote on Tue, 13 Jul 2010: In our previous episode, Jonas Maebe said: Furthermore, at least two of "the users" have already posted in this thread saying that they use this functionality (both in FPC and in Delphi). Therefore I don't think it is a good idea to remove or change it. Nobody is talking about removing ? It was suggested (for non-Borland syntax modes) in a quote at the top of the message you were replying to. (btw afaik the consequences of IN (but also allowing multiple casings in general) is that we don't use the OS routines to search for files, but read in the entire dir ourselves? Because one full search is cheaper than many small ones?) The directory cache is unrelated to the support for IN 'xxx'. It was mainly added a) because searching directories is very slow on Windows b) indeed also because of the searching for filenames with different cases. In case some directory in the search path contains a lot of files while only a few units are used (e.g., when doing testsuite runs), it actually slows things down though -- and quite severely so when a network file system is involved. Jonas This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Marco van de Voort schrieb: Nobody is talking about removing ? It is more a matter of not expanding, and not guaranteeing too much (more) wrt to it. Specially since DoDi in other posts seemed to state that he wanted to use it to override which unit is selected in multiple sources in path cases. AFAIR this was intended as a hack, to work around the current compiler directory tree structure. When the affected units can be moved into dedicated directories (for now in the parser_rewrite branch), such hacks will not be necessary. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 07/13/2010 11:46 AM, Marco van de Voort wrote: The whole paths in source is evil IMHO. +1, But id _could_ be overcome e.g. by multiple unit search passes to be defined and do something like in 2:xxx to define unit xxx to be searched in the 2nd unit search path (while no ":" means normal (1st) search path). (Of course not compatible to Delphi at all :) ). -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
In our previous episode, Jonas Maebe said: > > Even for portability purposes it often doesn't work, since usually the build > > systems and files for FPC/Lazarus and Delphi differ anyway (and you noticed > > the working dir difference) > > The working dir difference is a Lazarus difference, not an FPC > difference. Afaict, that feature works identically in FPC and in Delphi. > Furthermore, at least two of "the users" have already posted in this > thread saying that they use this functionality (both in FPC and in > Delphi). Therefore I don't think it is a good idea to remove or change > it. Nobody is talking about removing ? It is more a matter of not expanding, and not guaranteeing too much (more) wrt to it. Specially since DoDi in other posts seemed to state that he wanted to use it to override which unit is selected in multiple sources in path cases. So I was not talking about IN in general, but the specific case that it actually contains paths (IOW not unit renaming). (btw afaik the consequences of IN (but also allowing multiple casings in general) is that we don't use the OS routines to search for files, but read in the entire dir ourselves? Because one full search is cheaper than many small ones?) > If different functionality is desired, I think it's better to add a > different construct rather than using the same construct but with a > different meaning. The whole paths in source is evil IMHO. It should not be expanded. The IN should remain what it was introduced for, a minimal ability to work around some case problems, and nothing more. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Jonas Maebe schrieb: Furthermore, at least two of "the users" have already posted in this thread saying that they use this functionality (both in FPC and in Delphi). Therefore I don't think it is a good idea to remove or change it. ACK. My concern is about new users with (possibly) new uses of that construct, that will not work with the current implementation. We should cleary state that the use of the "in" feature is not recommended in new projects, and its use may lead to unexpected results. If different functionality is desired, I think it's better to add a different construct rather than using the same construct but with a different meaning. I don't think that unit aliasing requires a new construct. In technical terms it only affects the (one-time) comparison of the file and unit name. It *may* have more consequences, like the determination of the source file (name) from a unit name in an IDE, but I don't think that the required changes (if ever) would exceed similar comparisons. But all such considerations can be postponed, till a real and broad need for such a feature exists, or until a user comes up with an according patch. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Marco van de Voort wrote on Mon, 12 Jul 2010:
In our previous episode, Hans-Peter Diettrich said:
Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:
> The cure is far worse than the problem, because it is still trying to
> combine 2 systems that are basically incompatible.
>
> Bottom line is: don't use 'in' for the uses clause; use the command-line
> option to specify the location of the sources.
Then we could start by immediately flagging all uses of "in" as
deprecated, unless e.g. TP7 or Delphi mode is selected. When the users
can demonstrate that they still need such a feature, we could think
again about other (more compatible) solutions for not yet covered
special cases, before dropping it from the FPC syntax.
See http://www.stack.nl/~marcov/porting.pdf paragraph 7 ("avoid paths...")
I originally wrote that in 2003-2004.
Even for portability purposes it often doesn't work, since usually the build
systems and files for FPC/Lazarus and Delphi differ anyway (and you noticed
the working dir difference)
The working dir difference is a Lazarus difference, not an FPC
difference. Afaict, that feature works identically in FPC and in Delphi.
Furthermore, at least two of "the users" have already posted in this
thread saying that they use this functionality (both in FPC and in
Delphi). Therefore I don't think it is a good idea to remove or change
it.
If different functionality is desired, I think it's better to add a
different construct rather than using the same construct but with a
different meaning.
Jonas
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
In our previous episode, Hans-Peter Diettrich said:
> Michael Van Canneyt schrieb:
>
> > The cure is far worse than the problem, because it is still trying to
> > combine 2 systems that are basically incompatible.
> >
> > Bottom line is: don't use 'in' for the uses clause; use the command-line
> > option to specify the location of the sources.
>
> Then we could start by immediately flagging all uses of "in" as
> deprecated, unless e.g. TP7 or Delphi mode is selected. When the users
> can demonstrate that they still need such a feature, we could think
> again about other (more compatible) solutions for not yet covered
> special cases, before dropping it from the FPC syntax.
See http://www.stack.nl/~marcov/porting.pdf paragraph 7 ("avoid paths...")
I originally wrote that in 2003-2004.
Even for portability purposes it often doesn't work, since usually the build
systems and files for FPC/Lazarus and Delphi differ anyway (and you noticed
the working dir difference)
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Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Michael Van Canneyt schrieb: The cure is far worse than the problem, because it is still trying to combine 2 systems that are basically incompatible. Bottom line is: don't use 'in' for the uses clause; use the command-line option to specify the location of the sources. Then we could start by immediately flagging all uses of "in" as deprecated, unless e.g. TP7 or Delphi mode is selected. When the users can demonstrate that they still need such a feature, we could think again about other (more compatible) solutions for not yet covered special cases, before dropping it from the FPC syntax. I agree. Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Michael Van Canneyt schrieb: The cure is far worse than the problem, because it is still trying to combine 2 systems that are basically incompatible. Bottom line is: don't use 'in' for the uses clause; use the command-line option to specify the location of the sources. Then we could start by immediately flagging all uses of "in" as deprecated, unless e.g. TP7 or Delphi mode is selected. When the users can demonstrate that they still need such a feature, we could think again about other (more compatible) solutions for not yet covered special cases, before dropping it from the FPC syntax. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 07/12/2010 01:32 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: The cure is far worse than the problem, because it is still trying to combine 2 systems that are basically incompatible. Right you are. I was just trying to help ;). -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Michael Schnell wrote: On 07/12/2010 08:12 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: So for historical reasons, FPC is stuck with the 'in' clause, when in fact it should not exist in the first place. It could be made useful when - it takes precedence above the search path - can bed used relative with "current" = the file it is read from - there is an OS independent syntax (does using / and \ both as separators make sense ? ) - the (Lazarus-.usual) Variables to things like project path are usable - ... ??? The cure is far worse than the problem, because it is still trying to combine 2 systems that are basically incompatible. Bottom line is: don't use 'in' for the uses clause; use the command-line option to specify the location of the sources. Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Op Mon, 12 Jul 2010, schreef Michael Schnell: On 07/12/2010 08:12 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: So for historical reasons, FPC is stuck with the 'in' clause, when in fact it should not exist in the first place. It could be made useful when You may be able to make it more usefull, but there still is no justification for its existance. Daniël___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 07/12/2010 08:12 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: So for historical reasons, FPC is stuck with the 'in' clause, when in fact it should not exist in the first place. It could be made useful when - it takes precedence above the search path - can bed used relative with "current" = the file it is read from - there is an OS independent syntax (does using / and \ both as separators make sense ? ) - the (Lazarus-.usual) Variables to things like project path are usable - ... ??? -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 07/11/2010 11:31 PM, Michael Müller wrote: We use relative paths like '..\foo\foo.pas' or '..\..\foo\foo.pas' under Windows and it works with FPC 2.4.0 (but it already worked with 2.2.4). Portability nightmare . -Michael ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Jonas Maebe schrieb: I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it really good for? AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) only absolute filenames are implemented, That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved relative to the current working directory of the compiler. Clarification: When I start compiler\prep.lpi from Lazarus, the current directory is set to compiler\i386\, that's why compiler\prep.pas is not found. After several tries and discussions I found that this is just the directory of the *executable*, not of the project. This is documented behaviour, but one must understand the difference between the Lazarus IDE working directory (project) and the runtime working directory (executable). Sorry for the confusion :-( DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Op 2010-07-12 09:01, Marco van de Voort het geskryf: > > The IN syntax was iirc mainly to fix certain Kylix naming issues, and to > assist the designer (hence its main use in .dpr). As far as I know the "in" syntax was used in Delphi .dpr files, long before Kylix arrived. It was initially used by Delphi to know which files are part of a project. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
In our previous episode, Hans-Peter Diettrich said: > That's why I would restrict the usage of "in", with a (relative) path, > to a program or library module, as AFAIR Delphi does, and make the > directory of that file the root for relative filenames. AFAIK it does not. Delphi projects with relative paths in library searchnames also can go horribly wrong. Usually the working dir is equal to the project dir, but in some cases they can differ, and then it goes wrong. The IN syntax was iirc mainly to fix certain Kylix naming issues, and to assist the designer (hence its main use in .dpr). It was abused for all kinds of trickery, but these were always hacks afaik. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Op 2010-07-11 15:47, Hans-Peter Diettrich het geskryf: > I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what > is it really good for? As far as I know, it was introduced in Delphi/Kylix to notify the IDE of what units are part of the project. Instead, Lazarus IDE does this with .lpi files, fpGUI IDE with .project files and MSEide with .prj files. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/ ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Mon, 12 Jul 2010, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: Jonas Maebe schrieb: That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved relative to the current working directory of the compiler. So what's the "current working directory"? The current directory when the compiler was started. E.g.: c:\pp\src> ppc386 project\test.pas -> "c:\pp\src" is the current working directory (aka present working directory). Sorry, I don't understand this strange convention :-( How can the user of a project know, from which directory a project must be compiled, so that the relative pathes are resolved as the project author had in mind? How in detail does Lazarus know that? But it would explain why my relative unit was not found :-( Does this mean that whole projects are recompiled, when only the compiler is invoked from a different directory, so that relative pathes are re-evaluated properly? Of course. This is normal ? The compiler may find a whole different set of units if unit paths are relative. It may find units it didn't find in the first place. That's why I would restrict the usage of "in", with a (relative) path, to a program or library module, as AFAIR Delphi does, and make the directory of that file the root for relative filenames. In other units a relative path, based on an arbitrary working directory, can only lead to confusion, when the using unit is compiled for different projects - except when the directory of the using unit itself is used to resolve relative filenames in its uses clauses. 'in' is only allowed in projects, libraries and packages. Anything else will lead to confusion. In other units it may be helpful when the filename can be overridden (alias feature). Then it's easy to exchange qualified references, by only changing the unit name in the uses clause, instead of editing all occurences of the unit name in the remainder of the code. But this is not a frequently required feature, so that "in filespec" simply could be ignored (or disallowed) in ordinary units. It must be disallowed. It will only be a source of frustration. The 'in' feature was introduced by borland because they made the mistake of using the main program file as project files. In later versions they corrected this, but the damage was done. The unit alias feature was introduced to ease transition from TP for windows to Delphi. So for historical reasons, FPC is stuck with the 'in' clause, when in fact it should not exist in the first place. I would not encourage it's use; the proper way to instruct the compiler where to look for units is using the -Fu switch. Michael. ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Jonas Maebe schrieb: That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved relative to the current working directory of the compiler. So what's the "current working directory"? The current directory when the compiler was started. E.g.: c:\pp\src> ppc386 project\test.pas -> "c:\pp\src" is the current working directory (aka present working directory). Sorry, I don't understand this strange convention :-( How can the user of a project know, from which directory a project must be compiled, so that the relative pathes are resolved as the project author had in mind? How in detail does Lazarus know that? But it would explain why my relative unit was not found :-( Does this mean that whole projects are recompiled, when only the compiler is invoked from a different directory, so that relative pathes are re-evaluated properly? That's why I would restrict the usage of "in", with a (relative) path, to a program or library module, as AFAIR Delphi does, and make the directory of that file the root for relative filenames. In other units a relative path, based on an arbitrary working directory, can only lead to confusion, when the using unit is compiled for different projects - except when the directory of the using unit itself is used to resolve relative filenames in its uses clauses. In other units it may be helpful when the filename can be overridden (alias feature). Then it's easy to exchange qualified references, by only changing the unit name in the uses clause, instead of editing all occurences of the unit name in the remainder of the code. But this is not a frequently required feature, so that "in filespec" simply could be ignored (or disallowed) in ordinary units. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 11 Jul 2010, at 23:55, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > Jonas Maebe schrieb: > >>> AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since >>> (currently) only absolute filenames are implemented, >> That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved >> relative to the current working directory of the compiler. > > So what's the "current working directory"? The current directory when the compiler was started. E.g.: c:\pp\src> ppc386 project\test.pas -> "c:\pp\src" is the current working directory (aka present working directory). Jonas___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Jonas Maebe schrieb: AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) only absolute filenames are implemented, That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved relative to the current working directory of the compiler. So what's the "current working directory"? The only meaningful root directory is that of the unit, which uses another file - and this didn't work for me. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Am 11.07.2010 um 19:48 schrieb Daniël Mantione: > Op Sun, 11 Jul 2010, schreef Hans-Peter Diettrich: > >> I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it >> really good for? > > In my opinion, it is not usefull. I have never seen a clear description of > what the semantics should be, for example what happens if the code being > compiled is found in the unit path, or if you point to a different directory > than the current (i.e. "fpc subdir/unit.pas"). If you use it, you often also > get into trouble with include files. In Delphi IDE it is needed to include a unit into the 'Find in project files' search a word in the code. This is the reason why all of your codes use this syntax. > Another problem is that filename pathnames syntactically depend on the > operating system. > > In my opinion, the unit path (-Fu) is the proper way to instruct the compiler > where it should search for your units. "uses ... in" is a Delphi relic we > have inherited. > >> AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) >> only absolute filenames are implemented, I really wonder why FPC allows to >> use it everywhere? Who said that it works only with absolute filenames? We use relative paths like '..\foo\foo.pas' or '..\..\foo\foo.pas' under Windows and it works with FPC 2.4.0 (but it already worked with 2.2.4). Regards Michael___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
11.07.2010 17:47, Hans-Peter Diettrich: I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it really good for? For specifying path. This way you are able to prevent any ambiguity in which file will actually be selected. Not sure how exactly this is implemented in FPC, but in Delphi, once you added "in ..." for all files of your interest (with correct path), you can forget about search paths altogether. (Sometimes, though not always, having search paths is less convenient, especially if there are many and if several projects share some random fractions of common files) AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) only absolute filenames are implemented, I really wonder why FPC allows to use it everywhere? Relative paths are supported (I use them on a regular basis). Nikolai IMO the filespec should allow for relative pathes, and also the use of FPC macros should be possible (e.g. FPCSourceDir). When there exists interest in such an extended functionality, but nobody has the time to implement it, I'll try to implement it myself. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On 11 Jul 2010, at 15:47, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it > really good for? > > AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) only > absolute filenames are implemented, That is incorrect. Relative file names do work. They are resolved relative to the current working directory of the compiler. Jonas___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
Op Sun, 11 Jul 2010, schreef Hans-Peter Diettrich: I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it really good for? In my opinion, it is not usefull. I have never seen a clear description of what the semantics should be, for example what happens if the code being compiled is found in the unit path, or if you point to a different directory than the current (i.e. "fpc subdir/unit.pas"). If you use it, you often also get into trouble with include files. Another problem is that filename pathnames syntactically depend on the operating system. In my opinion, the unit path (-Fu) is the proper way to instruct the compiler where it should search for your units. "uses ... in" is a Delphi relic we have inherited. AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) only absolute filenames are implemented, I really wonder why FPC allows to use it everywhere? IMO the filespec should allow for relative pathes, and also the use of FPC macros should be possible (e.g. FPCSourceDir). When there exists interest in such an extended functionality, but nobody has the time to implement it, I'll try to implement it myself. I am skeptical, but if you can make it more usefull... Daniël___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
Re: [fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 06:47, Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it > really good for? > > AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) > only absolute filenames are implemented, I really wonder why FPC allows to > use it everywhere? > > IMO the filespec should allow for relative pathes, and also the use of FPC > macros should be possible (e.g. FPCSourceDir). > > When there exists interest in such an extended functionality, but nobody has > the time to implement it, I'll try to implement it myself. There are also other problems with unit-search algorithm in FPC. Some of these problems: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=15330 http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=10551 Maybe you can take a look at these and come up with some good solution while you are there. Unfortunately, I do not have time to work on these problems at the moment, maybe in a month or so. > > DoDi > > ___ > fpc-devel maillist - fpc-de...@lists.freepascal.org > http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel > ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
[fpc-devel] Purpose of "uses ... in"?
I know that the "in " is part of the Delphi syntax, but what is it really good for? AFAIK it's not allowed to "rename" units this way, and since (currently) only absolute filenames are implemented, I really wonder why FPC allows to use it everywhere? IMO the filespec should allow for relative pathes, and also the use of FPC macros should be possible (e.g. FPCSourceDir). When there exists interest in such an extended functionality, but nobody has the time to implement it, I'll try to implement it myself. DoDi ___ fpc-devel maillist - fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/fpc-devel
