Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
Jim wrote: Also: IMHO, Arachne should not be a file manager or email client. I think the most progress could be made by simplifying the code, and putting the focus on the web browser. The browser is in core.exe, filemanager in wwwman.exe and insight.exe (formerly mailman.exe) handles email. I agree on simplifying the code, Ray has done a great job on this and has reduced the code but still keep most of the functionality (XT and CGA support are two things his port has dropped that very few people use). Unfortunately due to time contraints from almost all of the developers little else is happening. -- Bernhard Eriksson, Wermlandsdata Fryxellsgatan 2, 652 22 Karlstad 054 - 15 69 00, http://www.wermlandsdata.se/ Datorer, tillbehör, service, programmering mm. -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
By the way I also think Arachne is one of the DOS flagship projects. Unfortunately there are some very basic things which makes this software less useful and afaik there is currently no one continuing the development of this project. 1) no SSL support - latest DOSLynx implemented it 2) Linux port - From Arachne v1.93 there is also a Linux port. - Unfortunately it's also not completely synchronized with v1.95. - I wonder why there are two different source packages, the DOS and Linux source should be unified as any multi platform application which can be compiled in a few steps for different platforms does this so. It also ensures also that all ports are always up to date. 3) uses still real mode and xswap - Udo Kuhnt made an alpha version with DPMI out of v1.90J1 while latest version in the maintree is v1.95 but I think backporting the few changes shouldn't be a big deal - I am not sure whenever Udo Kuhnt's version uses 16 or 32 bit DPMI but it I think it's 16. - 32 bit DPMI would be better. - As I think xswap will not work in native Linux (no emulation) as there is no xms, ems so it must have been ported already. Why the DOS version uses still xswap then? 4) compiler - still dependent to Borland C, port to OW and/or DJGPP would be good because more people are using it - Makes it point to port it from C to C++? 5) to many ports - There are to many ports with different features floating around, all should be merged, there was even a windows port form 1.6x or so. 6) graphics backend - Dr WebSpyder and Lineo Embrowser (unfortunately no source code) ported to Allegro and gave Arachne a speed boost. -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
Hi Michael, By the way I also think Arachne is one of the DOS flagship projects. I agree. 1) no SSL support - latest DOSLynx implemented it I believe there are also eLinks based projects with SSL for DOS? 2) Linux port - From Arachne v1.93 there is also a Linux port. - Unfortunately it's also not completely synchronized with v1.95. - I wonder why there are two different source packages, the DOS and Linux source should be unified as any multi platform application.. Arachne is not as cool as the big browsers among those who CAN run the big browsers - But it could be, in particular because it has the potential to run with little RAM... At the moment, alas, it still needs big RAM or big temp directory for the rendering of JPEG and other images as far as I remember...? Another good thing to have would be basic Javascript, and I think there were projects in that direction... 3) uses still real mode and xswap - Udo Kuhnt made an alpha version with DPMI out of v1.90J1 while latest version in the maintree is v1.95 but I think backporting the few changes shouldn't be a big deal Not sure... - As I think xswap will not work in native Linux You will not need any of that if you simply compile Arachne with a 32bit compiler in the first place. I do not think any 286 or older PC could run Arachne at acceptable speed anyway. 4) compiler - still dependent to Borland C, port to OW and/or DJGPP would be good I agree. - Makes it point to port it from C to C++? No. Only if there is much of hard-to-read object-related code and only if you have the idea that this code would be easier to implement in object oriented languages. 6) graphics backend - Dr WebSpyder and Lineo Embrowser (unfortunately no source code) ported to Allegro and gave Arachne a speed boost. Arachne has GPL license so you can force WebSpyder/Lineo to make their Arachne modifications public. I agree that Arachne (and MPXPLAY) are nice DOS projects which can become even nicer if there are more volunteers to help them. Eric -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Eric Auer wrote: Hi Michael, snips here and there 1) no SSL support - latest DOSLynx implemented it I believe there are also eLinks based projects with SSL for DOS? Dunno if the elinks port does SSL, I haven't tried that aspect. 4) compiler - still dependent to Borland C, port to OW and/or DJGPP would be good I agree. DJGPP's libs are very Borland-like to begin with. Nice feature. - Makes it point to port it from C to C++? No. Only if there is much of hard-to-read object-related code and only if you have the idea that this code would be easier to implement in object oriented languages. Agreed: there's almost never a need to translate anything from C to C++. -uso. -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
Eric Auer schrieb: - As I think xswap will not work in native Linux You will not need any of that if you simply compile Arachne with a 32bit compiler in the first place. Why it can't be also simple compiled on DOS with 32 bit compiler? 6) graphics backend - Dr WebSpyder and Lineo Embrowser (unfortunately no source code) ported to Allegro and gave Arachne a speed boost. Arachne has GPL license so you can force WebSpyder/Lineo to make their Arachne modifications public. No, them have purchased a proprietary license from the copyright holders (original developers). GPL doesn't surrender rights. It's dual licensing like with Qt. -mr -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
Hi, - As I think xswap will not work in native Linux You will not need any of that if you simply compile Arachne with a 32bit compiler in the first place. Why it can't be also simple compiled on DOS with 32 bit compiler? That is what I meant - port Arachne to GNU C / DJGPP and then you have better performance in DOS - and an easier life in porting to Linux. Two good things for one effort. - Dr WebSpyder and Lineo Embrowser (unfortunately no source code) ported to Allegro and gave Arachne a speed boost. Arachne has GPL license so you can force WebSpyder/Lineo to make their Arachne modifications public. No, them have purchased a proprietary license from the copyright holders (original developers). GPL doesn't surrender rights. It's dual licensing like with Qt. Oh I understand. That is bad luck for fans then, fans will have to port Arachne to Allegro a second time if they want a free open source Allegro based Arachne... Eric -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
Hi all, wouldn't be better porting dillo for freedos? imho, the main bottleneck is the gui part that should be re written http://www.dillo.org/ See Ya, Geraldo Sapere Aude Non ducor, duco São Paulo, Brasil, -3gmt site: http://exdev.sf.net/ msn: geraldo_boca_at_hotmail.com skype: geraldo-netto icq: 145-061-456 2009/3/29 Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de: Hi, - As I think xswap will not work in native Linux You will not need any of that if you simply compile Arachne with a 32bit compiler in the first place. Why it can't be also simple compiled on DOS with 32 bit compiler? That is what I meant - port Arachne to GNU C / DJGPP and then you have better performance in DOS - and an easier life in porting to Linux. Two good things for one effort. - Dr WebSpyder and Lineo Embrowser (unfortunately no source code) ported to Allegro and gave Arachne a speed boost. Arachne has GPL license so you can force WebSpyder/Lineo to make their Arachne modifications public. No, them have purchased a proprietary license from the copyright holders (original developers). GPL doesn't surrender rights. It's dual licensing like with Qt. Oh I understand. That is bad luck for fans then, fans will have to port Arachne to Allegro a second time if they want a free open source Allegro based Arachne... Eric -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
Michael wrote: Arachne has GPL license so you can force WebSpyder/Lineo to make their Arachne modifications public. No, them have purchased a proprietary license from the copyright holders (original developers). GPL doesn't surrender rights. It's dual licensing like with Qt. Additionally Arachne wasn't GPLed when Michael Polak sold the code to Caldera (who released DR-Webspyder) or Suntech. Orignally if you wanted to get a hold of the source code you would need to sign a NDA and sent it to Michael. I did so after I told Michael I had copied his code (I still have an account at arachne.cz BTW), which influenced him to later release it as GPL. -- Bernhard Eriksson, Wermlandsdata Fryxellsgatan 2, 652 22 Karlstad 054 - 15 69 00, http://www.wermlandsdata.se/ Datorer, tillbehr, service, programmering mm. -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
- I am not sure whenever Udo Kuhnt's version uses 16 or 32 bit DPMI but it I think it's 16. The difference isn't that big, anyway. Default code operation size changes, but this doesn't require changes to the actual code (even in .ASM source files) if the assembler or compiler supports both 16- and 32-bit output. The code segment can be larger than 64 KiB, which might be the main advantage. - 32 bit DPMI would be better. Not necessarily. Some applications even run dual-mode (RM or 16-bit PM) so even 16-bit has it's advantages. The 64 KiB code segment limit is the only real disadvantage. (Or are code segments with 16-bit default operation size not actually limited to 64 KiB?) Regards, Christian -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Volunteering - Arachne
- 32 bit DPMI would be better. Not necessarily. Some applications even run dual-mode (RM or 16-bit PM) so even 16-bit has it's advantages. The 64 KiB code segment limit is the only real disadvantage. (Or are code segments with 16-bit default operation size not actually limited to 64 KiB?) I agree that 32-bit DPMI is better because 32-bit is more common and people with 286s are highly unlikely to be browsing the internet with a graphical browser (if at all). And in 16-bit code code segments IIRC don't have to be limited to 64kb; for example if you were using a compiler that supported huge pointers, it would generate function calls to increment a pointer if you try to access anything 64kb in one memory block, but that could considerable slow down an application and of course the generated code size would be much bigger. An application utilizing huge pointers could potentially access 1 MB of memory IIRC. Regards, Christian -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel -- ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
