Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
Hello, If I understand this right, this is about moving the Turkish layouts from KEYB2 to the main driver, right? Would this cause any compatibility issues with other programs? Anyway, I will be happy to provide any assistance needed whilst testing the F layout. Best, Emir Отправлено с iPhone > 3 янв. 2022 г., в 19:26, thraex написал(а): > > > > On 3.01.2022 17:18, tom ehlert wrote: > > Hi, >>> But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb. >> why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver >> for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve? >> >> and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to >> complain. > > I must say I mainly use the French AZERTY keyboard when it comes to > typing in English and French, and the Turkish Q layout when typing in > Turkish. I'm much faster with AZERTY, so I seldom use the Turkish Q > layout (with FreeDOS, only for testing and translating purposes). > >>> It would make much things easier. >> what kind of things exactly? >> >> a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean? > > There's the Q layout, derived from the American QWERTY used by the huge > majority of Turkish people, and the F layout optimized for typing > efficiently and quickly. I think he means both, but I'll let him answer. > >> b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works >> correct. >> >> you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at >> least moderate technical skills to do this. > > I think Emir on this list uses the F layout, I use the Q one. There's > Ercan, the author or Minibox and FDTUI too, I don't know which one he > prefers. They certainly both are way more skilled than me, but maybe > with some hand holding I could see if the drivers work correctly for the > Q layout. Hopefully it will be feasible to find people to test the > drivers for both layouts on this list. > >> after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I >> would help to implement this. > > Thank you! > > > ___ > Freedos-devel mailing list > Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
On 3.01.2022 17:18, tom ehlert wrote: Hi, >> But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb. > why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver > for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve? > > and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to > complain. I must say I mainly use the French AZERTY keyboard when it comes to typing in English and French, and the Turkish Q layout when typing in Turkish. I'm much faster with AZERTY, so I seldom use the Turkish Q layout (with FreeDOS, only for testing and translating purposes). >> It would make much things easier. > what kind of things exactly? > > a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean? There's the Q layout, derived from the American QWERTY used by the huge majority of Turkish people, and the F layout optimized for typing efficiently and quickly. I think he means both, but I'll let him answer. > b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works > correct. > > you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at > least moderate technical skills to do this. I think Emir on this list uses the F layout, I use the Q one. There's Ercan, the author or Minibox and FDTUI too, I don't know which one he prefers. They certainly both are way more skilled than me, but maybe with some hand holding I could see if the drivers work correctly for the Q layout. Hopefully it will be feasible to find people to test the drivers for both layouts on this list. > after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I > would help to implement this. Thank you! ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
> But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb. why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve? and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to complain. > It would make much things easier. what kind of things exactly? a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean? b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works correct. you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at least moderate technical skills to do this. > Which amount do you think I should pay for > a charity community, Tom? after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I would help to implement this. most of the available keyboards were NOT done by me, or at least corrected by others. Tom > I would pay up to 300 Euro for this, of > course you will get a copy of my bank account (account values > deleted, only the money I will pay will be shown). > If you want, you can send me the response to my mail address directly. > > Willi > > > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 at 11:36 PM > From: "Ralf Quint" > To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard > On 12/31/2021 9:19 AM, Wilhelm Spiegl wrote: > mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc. > FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things. > but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, > help etc. > Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb > e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to > say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big > problems? > This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome. > > Well, no,not really. > > As Tom already mentioned, those keyboard layout codes have always > been that way, since the first version of DOS that had a KEYB > "driver". And for compatibility reasons, this should be the same. > The reason for GR instead of DE is that all those abbreviations > are derived from the English language, as in "GeRmany", not > "DEutschland". Hasn't been a problem though either, as there was, at > least not officially AFAIK, a GReek KEYB option. For the same reason > it is SP for SPain (not ESpana), HU for Hungary (not Magyar), though > they chose SU for SUomi instead of FI for Finland (not sure if that > was a stab against the then still existing Soviet Union, LOL). > > You also need to understand that the keyboard layout codes are NOT > identical with the "language" being used (for example in > translations), as for example both US and UK are for different > keyboard layouts used in the US of A and the United Kingdom, even > though they both are supposed to be English Speaking countries. Same > goes for FR and CF, which defines the keyboard layout for FRance and > French Canada respectively, though the on screen language in both > cases is French. Or PO and BT for POrtugal and BRazil, which both use (some > form of) Portuguese. > > I don't have an easy way to test this right now in any Windows > version, but I am pretty sure that a similar distinction exists > there as well, though those settings are there made within a GUI > tool not by using command line parameters line in DOS... > > Ralf > > > > > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com > > ___ Freedos-devel > mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards Tom Ehlert +49-15151898538 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
Hi Ralf, you are right. I checked it, all three keyboard layouts have the same basic system, so even if it would work it would require to modify all three keyboard programs. That is nonse. I admit this hereby officially. Sorry Tom, I have to excuse myself! Nevertheless it is weird that two different versions are used in FD. But life is life. But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb. It would make much things easier. Which amount do you think I should pay for a charity community, Tom? I would pay up to 300 Euro for this, of course you will get a copy of my bank account (account values deleted, only the money I will pay will be shown). If you want, you can send me the response to my mail address directly. Willi Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 at 11:36 PM From: "Ralf Quint" To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard On 12/31/2021 9:19 AM, Wilhelm Spiegl wrote: mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc. FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things. but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, help etc. Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems? This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome. Well, no,not really. As Tom already mentioned, those keyboard layout codes have always been that way, since the first version of DOS that had a KEYB "driver". And for compatibility reasons, this should be the same. The reason for GR instead of DE is that all those abbreviations are derived from the English language, as in "GeRmany", not "DEutschland". Hasn't been a problem though either, as there was, at least not officially AFAIK, a GReek KEYB option. For the same reason it is SP for SPain (not ESpana), HU for Hungary (not Magyar), though they chose SU for SUomi instead of FI for Finland (not sure if that was a stab against the then still existing Soviet Union, LOL). You also need to understand that the keyboard layout codes are NOT identical with the "language" being used (for example in translations), as for example both US and UK are for different keyboard layouts used in the US of A and the United Kingdom, even though they both are supposed to be English Speaking countries. Same goes for FR and CF, which defines the keyboard layout for FRance and French Canada respectively, though the on screen language in both cases is French. Or PO and BT for POrtugal and BRazil, which both use (some form of) Portuguese. I don't have an easy way to test this right now in any Windows version, but I am pretty sure that a similar distinction exists there as well, though those settings are there made within a GUI tool not by using command line parameters line in DOS... Ralf This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
On 12/31/2021 9:19 AM, Wilhelm Spiegl wrote: mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc. FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things. but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, help etc. Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems? This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome. Well, no,not really. As Tom already mentioned, those keyboard layout codes have always been that way, since the first version of DOS that had a KEYB "driver". And for compatibility reasons, this should be the same. The reason for GR instead of DE is that all those abbreviations are derived from the English language, as in "GeRmany", not "DEutschland". Hasn't been a problem though either, as there was, at least not officially AFAIK, a GReek KEYB option. For the same reason it is SP for SPain (not ESpana), HU for Hungary (not Magyar), though they chose SU for SUomi instead of FI for Finland (not sure if that was a stab against the then still existing Soviet Union, LOL). You also need to understand that the keyboard layout codes are NOT identical with the "language" being used (for example in translations), as for example both US and UK are for different keyboard layouts used in the US of A and the United Kingdom, even though they both are supposed to be English Speaking countries. Same goes for FR and CF, which defines the keyboard layout for FRance and French Canada respectively, though the on screen language in both cases is French. Or PO and BT for POrtugal and BRazil, which both use (some form of) Portuguese. I don't have an easy way to test this right now in any Windows version, but I am pretty sure that a similar distinction exists there as well, though those settings are there made within a GUI tool not by using command line parameters line in DOS... Ralf -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
On 31.12.2021 21:02, tom ehlert wrote: > > However I react supercritically when people that never contributed > anything suggest that I contribute some work. Hi Tom, I'm a newbie around here, I don't know much of the history of this mailing-list. Also, I didn't contribute much, and certainly not code. But Willi helped me quite a lot by spending hours fixing stuff in my translations, spotting mistakes or erroneous tags. All this to say that from my point of view, he was very helpful and without him, there wouldn't be a decent French version of the HTML help (and probably no German version either) among other things. Happy new year to all :) ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
> On Dec 31, 2021, at 1:02 PM, tom ehlert wrote: > However I react supercritically when people that never contributed > anything suggest that I contribute some work. I hope you are not suggesting the Wilhelm does not contribute. While he may not write code, he has put a lot of work into cleaning up the HTML help, provided numerous translations and translation fixes and has done a lot of release and software testing. My guess that just over the past several months, he has contributed dozens or even hundreds of hours of his time helping improve FreeDOS. Thank you William for all the work you do. Jerome ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
> of course you could try to motivate me by offering some money; estimated time > requested (with some error correcting back and forth between me and turkish > users) > is ~ 5-10 hours, depending in specific turkish requirements. I forgot to add: I don't care about money (somehow I manage have enough of it). However I react supercritically when people that never contributed anything suggest that I contribute some work. so it would be absolutely fine if instead of giving money (as a replacement for time to Transparency International Medecins sans frontieres or similar uncontroversial organisation Patreon donations to Freedos don't count. Tom ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
Hi, > mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc. > FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things. > but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, > help etc. > Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g. > german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say > "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems? absolutely. however (m)KEYB GR has been the way to call it for ages. and it should also be possible for the new users to implement something like set KEYBLANG=%LANG% if %KEYBLANG%==DE set KEYBLANG=GR ... mKEYB %KEYBLANG% > This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome. > If this is not possible for compatibility reasons with other OSes, > e.g. M$, could you create a modified version, e.g. fdkeyb or something like > this? I have definitively no intention to do this. they change above is trivial. > A second proposal, would it be possible to add a turkish keyboard > support? Of course only if this is possible. If not, simply forget > it. As you can see the number of turkish users increases. I am sure > one of the turkish boys can inform you about the layout etc. do you get the concept of 'open source'? it's about enabling other people to do exactly this change. why not do it (or motivate someone else) yourself? of course you could try to motivate me by offering some money; estimated time requested (with some error correcting back and forth between me and turkish users) is ~ 5-10 hours, depending in specific turkish requirements. > Thank you for reading and thinking about this. Thank you for reading and thinking about this. Tom ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
[Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard
Hi,this remembers me to something I wanted to post in the near time.first of all a happy new year and health to everyone in this group.now my wish: (Tom, keep calm)mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc.FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things.but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, help etc.Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems?This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome.If this is not possible for compatibility reasons with other OSes, e.g. M$, could you create a modified version, e.g. fdkeyb or something like this?A second proposal, would it be possible to add a turkish keyboard support? Of course only if this is possible. If not, simply forget it. As you can see the number of turkish users increases. I am sure one of the turkish boys can inform you about the layout etc.Thank you for reading and thinking about this.CheersWilli--Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit mail.com Mail gesendet.Am 31.12.21, 17:03 schrieb Emir SARI via Freedos-devel : Hello, > Your welcome. > > If your on an Intel based Mac, I recommend using VirtualBox. It’s free, fairly easy to use and works well enough. > > Although, if you scale the display to something other than %100, it can be sluggish. But, that probably has a lot to do with the model of Mac and it’s video card. VirtualBox is convenient, but I don’t like the fact that it puts all its tentacles all around the system. QEMU is more compact. :) In the meantime, I’ve observed a critical omission in the Turkish FreeCOM translations; the prompt reply keys were never translated. I was surprised to see that I could not get out of the drive letter error, only to see that it was not there. I have fixed this, and improved some other error messages in this[1] commit. Can we please put this in a last minute FreeCOM release? It will be a real bummer to ship it with this error. I am really sorry that I notice this now this late. Best regards, Emir [1] https://github.com/shidel/fd-nls/pull/84/commits/c8ac0ed6fff0d1da0cd062944da9d86602f21143 ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel ___ Freedos-devel mailing list Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
