Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
On 06/27/2015 01:11 PM, Steve Smith wrote: I'm left wondering if said darkness is a zero=sum and what the externalities of such maunderings are? I admit there is a sense that sentiment is zero-sum, the intuitive sense that if you have a really positive response to some stimulus, then you can't also have a very negative response to that same stimulus ... at least not at the exact same instant. Things like the necker cube or the rubin vase help demonstrate that the two positions (negative and positive) might well be very close together in the same higher dimensional space. Or, in other words, what looks like non-zero-sum in low dimensions can easily be zero-sum in higher dimensions. The same applies to overcoming logical paradox, untying knots, etc. How anyone could possible consider these things dark is beyond me. Maybe, Nick, what you mean to say is that logicians, mathematicians, programmers, big data researchers, etc. are masters of the Dark Arts? If that's what you mean, then, yeah, OK. However, I prefer to call it Chaos Magick or the Left-Hand Path. It's not dark ... just creepy. 8^) -- ⇔ glen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
If that's what you mean, then, yeah, OK. However, I prefer to call it Chaos Magick or the Left-Hand Path. It's not dark ... just creepy. Discovery of better models can invalidate consensus and orthodoxy. This leads to vested interests being threatened and disruption. A typical response to this is to isolate the disrupter. Tying them to stake and burning them is one way. Another way is to buy up all of the intellectual property in the vicinity and get lawyers busy. It's kind of all the same thing.The tactics change depending on social constraints, the relative size of the minority to majority, and governance systems already in place. Dark is what the majority calls the minority. It serves their purposes. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
On 06/29/2015 10:43 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: Discovery of better models can invalidate consensus and orthodoxy. This leads to vested interests being threatened and disruption. A typical response to this is to isolate the disrupter. Tying them to stake and burning them is one way. Another way is to buy up all of the intellectual property in the vicinity and get lawyers busy. It's kind of all the same thing.The tactics change depending on social constraints, the relative size of the minority to majority, and governance systems already in place. Dark is what the majority calls the minority. It serves their purposes. What amazes me is how quickly the transition can be made, indicating something like a neutral network. Thanks for eyeballing disruptive technologies, because they are an excellent example. Most of the (usually libertarian) technologists who think we'll _invent_ our way out of things like overpopulation or climate change tend play this game very well. They rely on the 2 basic assumptions that: 1) the unforeseen attractor(s) will be large enough to be promoted from minority to majority and 2) the path to (or emergence of) the unforeseen attractor(s) will be fat (or quick, respectively). For a technology to actually be disruptive, it has to flip the space relatively quickly. So, it's less about taking the road less traveled and more about strategies for becoming preadapted to the landscape that will soon emerge. I'd regard these types, the ones that want to anticipate the wave just early enough to _ride_ it, as Right-Hand Path magicians. The LHP magicians tend to stay in the minority, perhaps even on purpose. We become skilled at staying in the shadows and as soon as something we do/enjoy shows signs of becoming popular, we change what we do/enjoy so as to avoid the stampede. Anyway, my point is basically that even the majority-vs-minority conception is in the domain of Light. To be Dark means appreciating the entire (occult) mechanism, but especially focusing on the rarely used pathways. -- ⇔ glen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
Glen writes, Anyway, my point is basically that even the majority-vs-minority conception is in the domain of Light. To be Dark means appreciating the entire (occult) mechanism, but especially focusing on the rarely used pathways. I'll distinguish between popular and powerful pathways. A reason the powers-that-be circle the wagons on things like renewable energy is because they had/have enough instinctive fear to imagine it could well succeed; so, in the medium term, obstacles must be created to slow it. (Until they can hire people with interest of this occult mechanism to sort it out for them.) Being an early bitcoin miner was pretty much a requirement for being a bitcoin millionaire (at least with the means later to make large capital investments). Even in the mainstream trading systems, the exploitable inefficiencies are transitory, and knowledge of them is held closely by the people that model those systems. Again, rarely used pathways lead to profit. Imagination and the occult go together. Rapid growth and the occult go together. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
On 6/29/15 4:29 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: I recently met/visited Glen en-vivo and can report that there were no pentacles or other obviously occult gear (or tattoos) evident. I refer to my prior remark about the long game. First they build trust.. Run! Run! but perhaps *I* am the one with the long game... what *was* that he put in my beer? Inconceiveable! = I don't think that word means what you think it means... Meanwhile, I wonder if there is any work beyond Carse's classic Finite and Infinite Games? It seems that by one measure, all human activity is part of a game and that *all games* are embedded in a larger (longer) game? Iterative, recursive, embedded, infinite? Once again, I appeal to our student of evolutionary psychology in the group for his insight, Nick? If MOTH is the short-game, what is the long game? And does the recursion ever end? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
Well riposted Marcus... It has been a while since the playing field has been a simple one-dimensional good/evil, light/dark, black/white I don't have a good formulation of this parsimony principle, but systems do seem to be as low dimensional as possible, but no lower... in the spirit of Willem of Occam or Einstein's (as simple as possible but no simpler). I would say that rapid motion (growth/change, etc) offers more exploitable territory in the same landscape... when that landscape is flooded, then we have new dimensions emerge (fish begin to fly, salamanders gills begin to function in (humid) air, lillypads reach up out of the swamp, etc.). In this use of the term occult, I suppose we are meaning both operating in (otherwise) uncharted territories as well as discovering new dimensional/modalities. - Steve Glen writes, Anyway, my point is basically that even the majority-vs-minority conception is in the domain of Light. To be Dark means appreciating the entire (occult) mechanism, but especially focusing on the rarely used pathways. I'll distinguish between popular and powerful pathways. A reason the powers-that-be circle the wagons on things like renewable energy is because they had/have enough instinctive fear to imagine it could well succeed; so, in the medium term, obstacles must be created to slow it. (Until they can hire people with interest of this occult mechanism to sort it out for them.) Being an early bitcoin miner was pretty much a requirement for being a bitcoin millionaire (at least with the means later to make large capital investments). Even in the mainstream trading systems, the exploitable inefficiencies are transitory, and knowledge of them is held closely by the people that model those systems. Again, rarely used pathways lead to profit. Imagination and the occult go together. Rapid growth and the occult go together. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
Marcus - I'm a fan of dynamic binding, even/especially of natural language... I recently met/visited Glen en-vivo and can report that there were no pentacles or other obviously occult gear (or tattoos) evident. We enjoyed some good beer and conversation... equally entertaining to our online banter, but smoother with frosty beverages in-hand! With Doug it requires a few slugs of Scotch... - Steve In this use of the term occult, I suppose we are meaning both operating in (otherwise) uncharted territories as well as discovering new dimensional/modalities. Dynamically binding this word Glen likes to the probable/apparent meaning. There's no point in fighting it. :-) Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
I recently met/visited Glen en-vivo and can report that there were no pentacles or other obviously occult gear (or tattoos) evident. I refer to my prior remark about the long game. First they build trust.. Run! Run! Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
On 06/29/2015 02:40 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: Dynamically binding this word Glen likes to the probable/apparent meaning. There's no point in fighting it. :-) Say the word and you'll be free[*] Say the word and be like me In the beginning I misunderstood But now I've got it, the word is good Spread the word and you'll be free Spread the word and be like me [*] within a composition of your schema anyway. -- ⇔ glen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
In this use of the term occult, I suppose we are meaning both operating in (otherwise) uncharted territories as well as discovering new dimensional/modalities. Dynamically binding this word Glen likes to the probable/apparent meaning. There's no point in fighting it. :-) Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
That's a great point. But I suppose it all depends on who composes it. To say a group like this will advocate foolishly or manipulate without admitting that every other group, without exception(!), advocates foolishly and manipulates, is to place too much burden on these particular people. We all do our best to balance what we think should happen against worries that interference could go wrong. (Some of us are better at that balance than others. But that's also true of everyone about everything ... which makes it a useless statement.) In the end, to be against something before it's even begun is a bit silly, I think. Personally, I'm neutral. But it's interesting in the same way Lessig's May One or the genetic literacy project are interesting ... and manipulative. Even more political is the interesting neoreactionary movement. I'm even neutral about that, though I think I'm starting to turn a bit against it. The trick, as we've been discussing, is to never flip the bit one way or the other. On 06/29/2015 07:43 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: I am afraid I have not been following this closely enough to know the white hats from the black hats. I think one of the dimensions of disagreement here is on the possibility of social planning. If one thinks that the subject matters studied by sociologists and economists are essentially chaotic, then social planning is either foolish or manipulative … like bishops telling parishioners to defer gratification so they, the bishops, can live opulent lives in the Bishop’s Palace. As a consequence of running such a scam, the Vatican runs half of Rome, right? That new society sounds like a reforming and a planning lot. That’s as far as my thinking has gotten on this. As you see, it’s not very far. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella She'll borrow bullets and return em' to your skull FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
Yay! Cause at this point the world could really use social activism and public science education through an evolutionary psychology lens. Woohoo SocioBiology 2.0* -S * now with Multi-Level Group Selection flavor crystals. --- -. . ..-. .. ... - .-- --- ..-. .. ... stephen.gue...@redfish.com 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505 office: (505) 995-0206 mobile: (505) 577-5828 tw: @redfishgroup skype: redfishgroup redfish.com | simtable.com On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: So, Glen. Are you fur it or agin it? n Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ep ropella Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 9:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution https://evolution-institute.org/project/society-for-the-study-of-cultural-evolution/ A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution Why a new society? Our capacity for culture stems from our ability to receive, process, integrate, and transmit information across generations. The study of human culture and cultural change has made great strides during the last few decades in fields such as anthropology, computer science, evolutionary biology, neurobiology, psychology, and sociology. Yet, the study of cultural change as an evolutionary process, similar to genetic evolution but with its own inheritance mechanisms, is only now becoming a central area of scientific inquiry that spans these disciplines and holds much potential for academic integration. Outside the Ivory Tower, all public policies attempt to accomplish cultural change in a practical sense to reach their various objectives, yet they rarely draw upon an explicit scientific theory of cultural change. A new society is needed to catalyze the study of cultural change from a modern evolutionary perspective, both inside and outside the Ivory Tower. A recent EI workshop, “Advancing the Study of Cultural Evolution: Academic Integration and Policy Applications,” laid the groundwork for the formation of a society. The workshop was organized by Michele Gelfand, a cultural psychologist at the University of Maryland, and EI President David Sloan Wilson. The participants represented a melting pot of disciplines that need to become integrated to create a science of cultural change informed by evolutionary theory. They strongly endorsed the need for a society to accomplish the objectives identified during the workshop. What will the SSCE do? We envision an activist society that does much more than publish a journal and host an annual meeting. One of our first items of business will be to collectively identify “Grand Challenges” in the study of cultural evolution; these will define the agenda of the society. Then we will work toward the creation of basic scientific research programs and practical initiatives to tackle the Grand Challenges. We expect scientific research and real-world solutions to go together through the creation of field sites for the study of cultural evolution, similar to biological field sites. Who should join the SSCE? We encourage the following people to become founding members: Academic professionals, graduate students, and undergraduate students from any discipline relevant to cultural evolution. We especially encourage the next generation of scientists to become involved. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) who is trying to accomplish positive cultural change in the real world and who would like to base their efforts on cultural evolutionary theory. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) with an intellectual interest in cultural evolutionary theory who would like to get involved and support the newly emerging field. We are especially eager for our members to come from all cultures around the world—an appropriate ideal for a Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution! What will happen right away? When you become a founding member… You will be added to our mailing list to receive regular communications. You will be consulted, if you desire, to provide input in the creation of bylaws for the society and important decisions concerning dues, an annual conference, and a journal. You can help us identify grand challenges for the study of cultural evolution. You can get involved in the projects that we create to tackle the grand challenges. We look forward to starting the SSCE with a diverse membership and to offer both intellectual stimulation and practical knowledge for improving the quality of life. Please help us recruit founding members by bringing our invitation to the attention of your friends and
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
Glen, I am afraid I have not been following this closely enough to know the white hats from the black hats. I think one of the dimensions of disagreement here is on the possibility of social planning. If one thinks that the subject matters studied by sociologists and economists are essentially chaotic, then social planning is either foolish or manipulative … like bishops telling parishioners to defer gratification so they, the bishops, can live opulent lives in the Bishop’s Palace. As a consequence of running such a scam, the Vatican runs half of Rome, right? That new society sounds like a reforming and a planning lot. That’s as far as my thinking has gotten on this. As you see, it’s not very far. My grandchildren are visiting, and between dealing with them, and naps and long nights of dead sleep to recuperate, I don’t have much time to mull over emails these days. Feel free to ignore me. All the best, Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of gepr Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:17 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution On Jun 29, 2015 7:08 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: So, Glen. Are you fur it or agin it? I don't see any reason to be against it. Why? Are you against it? https://evolution-institute.org/project/society-for-the-study-of-cultural-evolution/ A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
Steve, There is NOTHING woo-hoo about multilevel selection! See http://www.clarku.edu/faculty/nthompson/1-websitestuff/Texts/2000-2005/Shifting_the_natural_selection_metaphor_to_the_group_level.pdf Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:27 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution Yay! Cause at this point the world could really use social activism and public science education through an evolutionary psychology lens. Woohoo SocioBiology 2.0* -S * now with Multi-Level Group Selection flavor crystals. --- -. . ..-. .. ... - .-- --- ..-. .. ... stephen.gue...@redfish.com mailto:stephen.gue...@redfish.com 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505 office: (505) 995-0206 mobile: (505) 577-5828 tw: @redfishgroup skype: redfishgroup redfish.com http://redfish.com/ | simtable.com http://simtable.com/ On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 8:08 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: So, Glen. Are you fur it or agin it? n Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com ] On Behalf Of glen ep ropella Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 9:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution https://evolution-institute.org/project/society-for-the-study-of-cultural-evolution/ A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution Why a new society? Our capacity for culture stems from our ability to receive, process, integrate, and transmit information across generations. The study of human culture and cultural change has made great strides during the last few decades in fields such as anthropology, computer science, evolutionary biology, neurobiology, psychology, and sociology. Yet, the study of cultural change as an evolutionary process, similar to genetic evolution but with its own inheritance mechanisms, is only now becoming a central area of scientific inquiry that spans these disciplines and holds much potential for academic integration. Outside the Ivory Tower, all public policies attempt to accomplish cultural change in a practical sense to reach their various objectives, yet they rarely draw upon an explicit scientific theory of cultural change. A new society is needed to catalyze the study of cultural change from a modern evolutionary perspective, both inside and outside the Ivory Tower. A recent EI workshop, “Advancing the Study of Cultural Evolution: Academic Integration and Policy Applications,” laid the groundwork for the formation of a society. The workshop was organized by Michele Gelfand, a cultural psychologist at the University of Maryland, and EI President David Sloan Wilson. The participants represented a melting pot of disciplines that need to become integrated to create a science of cultural change informed by evolutionary theory. They strongly endorsed the need for a society to accomplish the objectives identified during the workshop. What will the SSCE do? We envision an activist society that does much more than publish a journal and host an annual meeting. One of our first items of business will be to collectively identify “Grand Challenges” in the study of cultural evolution; these will define the agenda of the society. Then we will work toward the creation of basic scientific research programs and practical initiatives to tackle the Grand Challenges. We expect scientific research and real-world solutions to go together through the creation of field sites for the study of cultural evolution, similar to biological field sites. Who should join the SSCE? We encourage the following people to become founding members: Academic professionals, graduate students, and undergraduate students from any discipline relevant to cultural evolution. We especially encourage the next generation of scientists to become involved. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) who is trying to accomplish positive cultural change in the real world and who would like to base their efforts on cultural evolutionary theory. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) with an intellectual interest in cultural evolutionary theory who would like to get involved and support the newly emerging field. We are especially eager for our members to come from all cultures around the world—an appropriate ideal for a Society for the
[FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
https://evolution-institute.org/project/society-for-the-study-of-cultural-evolution/ A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution Why a new society? Our capacity for culture stems from our ability to receive, process, integrate, and transmit information across generations. The study of human culture and cultural change has made great strides during the last few decades in fields such as anthropology, computer science, evolutionary biology, neurobiology, psychology, and sociology. Yet, the study of cultural change as an evolutionary process, similar to genetic evolution but with its own inheritance mechanisms, is only now becoming a central area of scientific inquiry that spans these disciplines and holds much potential for academic integration. Outside the Ivory Tower, all public policies attempt to accomplish cultural change in a practical sense to reach their various objectives, yet they rarely draw upon an explicit scientific theory of cultural change. A new society is needed to catalyze the study of cultural change from a modern evolutionary perspective, both inside and outside the Ivory Tower. A recent EI workshop, “Advancing the Study of Cultural Evolution: Academic Integration and Policy Applications,” laid the groundwork for the formation of a society. The workshop was organized by Michele Gelfand, a cultural psychologist at the University of Maryland, and EI President David Sloan Wilson. The participants represented a melting pot of disciplines that need to become integrated to create a science of cultural change informed by evolutionary theory. They strongly endorsed the need for a society to accomplish the objectives identified during the workshop. What will the SSCE do? We envision an activist society that does much more than publish a journal and host an annual meeting. One of our first items of business will be to collectively identify “Grand Challenges” in the study of cultural evolution; these will define the agenda of the society. Then we will work toward the creation of basic scientific research programs and practical initiatives to tackle the Grand Challenges. We expect scientific research and real-world solutions to go together through the creation of field sites for the study of cultural evolution, similar to biological field sites. Who should join the SSCE? We encourage the following people to become founding members: Academic professionals, graduate students, and undergraduate students from any discipline relevant to cultural evolution. We especially encourage the next generation of scientists to become involved. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) who is trying to accomplish positive cultural change in the real world and who would like to base their efforts on cultural evolutionary theory. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) with an intellectual interest in cultural evolutionary theory who would like to get involved and support the newly emerging field. We are especially eager for our members to come from all cultures around the world—an appropriate ideal for a Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution! What will happen right away? When you become a founding member… You will be added to our mailing list to receive regular communications. You will be consulted, if you desire, to provide input in the creation of bylaws for the society and important decisions concerning dues, an annual conference, and a journal. You can help us identify grand challenges for the study of cultural evolution. You can get involved in the projects that we create to tackle the grand challenges. We look forward to starting the SSCE with a diverse membership and to offer both intellectual stimulation and practical knowledge for improving the quality of life. Please help us recruit founding members by bringing our invitation to the attention of your friends and associates! We aim to be inclusive and diverse. -- glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
So, Glen. Are you fur it or agin it? n Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ep ropella Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 9:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution https://evolution-institute.org/project/society-for-the-study-of-cultural-evolution/ A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution Why a new society? Our capacity for culture stems from our ability to receive, process, integrate, and transmit information across generations. The study of human culture and cultural change has made great strides during the last few decades in fields such as anthropology, computer science, evolutionary biology, neurobiology, psychology, and sociology. Yet, the study of cultural change as an evolutionary process, similar to genetic evolution but with its own inheritance mechanisms, is only now becoming a central area of scientific inquiry that spans these disciplines and holds much potential for academic integration. Outside the Ivory Tower, all public policies attempt to accomplish cultural change in a practical sense to reach their various objectives, yet they rarely draw upon an explicit scientific theory of cultural change. A new society is needed to catalyze the study of cultural change from a modern evolutionary perspective, both inside and outside the Ivory Tower. A recent EI workshop, “Advancing the Study of Cultural Evolution: Academic Integration and Policy Applications,” laid the groundwork for the formation of a society. The workshop was organized by Michele Gelfand, a cultural psychologist at the University of Maryland, and EI President David Sloan Wilson. The participants represented a melting pot of disciplines that need to become integrated to create a science of cultural change informed by evolutionary theory. They strongly endorsed the need for a society to accomplish the objectives identified during the workshop. What will the SSCE do? We envision an activist society that does much more than publish a journal and host an annual meeting. One of our first items of business will be to collectively identify “Grand Challenges” in the study of cultural evolution; these will define the agenda of the society. Then we will work toward the creation of basic scientific research programs and practical initiatives to tackle the Grand Challenges. We expect scientific research and real-world solutions to go together through the creation of field sites for the study of cultural evolution, similar to biological field sites. Who should join the SSCE? We encourage the following people to become founding members: Academic professionals, graduate students, and undergraduate students from any discipline relevant to cultural evolution. We especially encourage the next generation of scientists to become involved. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) who is trying to accomplish positive cultural change in the real world and who would like to base their efforts on cultural evolutionary theory. Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) with an intellectual interest in cultural evolutionary theory who would like to get involved and support the newly emerging field. We are especially eager for our members to come from all cultures around the world—an appropriate ideal for a Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution! What will happen right away? When you become a founding member… You will be added to our mailing list to receive regular communications. You will be consulted, if you desire, to provide input in the creation of bylaws for the society and important decisions concerning dues, an annual conference, and a journal. You can help us identify grand challenges for the study of cultural evolution. You can get involved in the projects that we create to tackle the grand challenges. We look forward to starting the SSCE with a diverse membership and to offer both intellectual stimulation and practical knowledge for improving the quality of life. Please help us recruit founding members by bringing our invitation to the attention of your friends and associates! We aim to be inclusive and diverse. -- glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
Glen, Oh, I don't think that these people are manipulative, particularly. Not at all. There is at least one person on the list I am enthusiastic about. If I were to think anything bad about them (and I don't think I do), it would be that they are naive. I just think that the whole project looks like it is based on the idea that we can analyze, plan, and reform in the societal domain, and I wasn't sure whether that was your cup of tea? I believe that we can do all of those things, but I am beginning to wonder if my commitment to that idea is more a value than a belief. An example of a kind of phenomenon that makes me doubt the possibility of successful social planning is the apparent rush to tear down the confederate battle flag that seems to be surging through the south. Talk about tipping point! Could we have planned for that? Nick Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 11:01 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution That's a great point. But I suppose it all depends on who composes it. To say a group like this will advocate foolishly or manipulate without admitting that every other group, without exception(!), advocates foolishly and manipulates, is to place too much burden on these particular people. We all do our best to balance what we think should happen against worries that interference could go wrong. (Some of us are better at that balance than others. But that's also true of everyone about everything ... which makes it a useless statement.) In the end, to be against something before it's even begun is a bit silly, I think. Personally, I'm neutral. But it's interesting in the same way Lessig's May One or the genetic literacy project are interesting ... and manipulative. Even more political is the interesting neoreactionary movement. I'm even neutral about that, though I think I'm starting to turn a bit against it. The trick, as we've been discussing, is to never flip the bit one way or the other. On 06/29/2015 07:43 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: I am afraid I have not been following this closely enough to know the white hats from the black hats. I think one of the dimensions of disagreement here is on the possibility of social planning. If one thinks that the subject matters studied by sociologists and economists are essentially chaotic, then social planning is either foolish or manipulative … like bishops telling parishioners to defer gratification so they, the bishops, can live opulent lives in the Bishop’s Palace. As a consequence of running such a scam, the Vatican runs half of Rome, right? That new society sounds like a reforming and a planning lot. That’s as far as my thinking has gotten on this. As you see, it’s not very far. -- ⇒⇐ glen e. p. ropella She'll borrow bullets and return em' to your skull FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] Re: [ SPAM ] where is the real threat?
The beetles? Clearly philosophy is way cool. http://genius.com/The-beatles-the-word-lyrics On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 4:37 PM, Steve Smith sasm...@swcp.com wrote: On 6/29/15 4:29 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: I recently met/visited Glen en-vivo and can report that there were no pentacles or other obviously occult gear (or tattoos) evident. I refer to my prior remark about the long game. First they build trust.. Run! Run! but perhaps *I* am the one with the long game... what *was* that he put in my beer? Inconceiveable! = I don't think that word means what you think it means... Meanwhile, I wonder if there is any work beyond Carse's classic Finite and Infinite Games? It seems that by one measure, all human activity is part of a game and that *all games* are embedded in a larger (longer) game? Iterative, recursive, embedded, infinite? Once again, I appeal to our student of evolutionary psychology in the group for his insight, Nick? If MOTH is the short-game, what is the long game? And does the recursion ever end? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
On Jun 29, 2015 7:08 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: So, Glen. Are you fur it or agin it? I don't see any reason to be against it. Why? Are you against it? https://evolution-institute.org/project/society-for-the-study-of-cultural-evolution/ A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
Anyone (professional or nonprofessional) who is trying to accomplish positive cultural change in the real world and who would like to base their efforts on cultural evolutionary theory. What is positive? What if culture is nothing more than inertia and mean reversion that inhibits individuals from turning over every rock and looking at every possibility? Is that hypothesis not positive? Down-sizing and extinction events happen in biological evolution, will these kinds of events be studied? If so, are such events not positive or just part of the natural world? Is it negative to relate cultural phenomena like fundamentalist religions to economic vitality? Or if one can think about whatever, can one define it for myself as positive and that'll do? Is this an activist society because there are good outcomes to seek that are self-evident to the group, and that one ought to know, or just because experiment is essential in learning about cultures work and so trying stuff out will be informative? What experiments are off limits, e.g. is this a U.S. based organization -- hard to know since they hide their domain registration! Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
The 2014 Annual Report names names for the Board of Directors See https://evolution-institute.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/NP_EI_2014_AnnualReport_web-printout.pdf Robert C On 6/29/15 10:43 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: is this a U.S. based organization -- hard to know since they hide their domain registration! -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] soo...
I just went to a place that called a | at first I drew a blank on the name till I got there., hadn't been in a while. (rimshot) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
Given the name, I'd feel a bit more comfy if there were greater representation from biology or, gods forbid, genetics...also, no phenomenologists (e.g. Sabine) out there. Appendix 4 in https://evolution-institute.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Final-CE-Conceptual-Framework-Mar-4-2015.pdf is interesting wrt concerns expressed here. (I found myself relating to the McElreath comments, not that I know diddly...) On 6/29/15 9:01 PM, glen wrote: That's a great point. But I suppose it all depends on who composes it. To say a group like this will advocate foolishly or manipulate without admitting that every other group, without exception(!), advocates foolishly and manipulates, is to place too much burden on these particular people. We all do our best to balance what we think should happen against worries that interference could go wrong. (Some of us are better at that balance than others. But that's also true of everyone about everything ... which makes it a useless statement.) In the end, to be against something before it's even begun is a bit silly, I think. Personally, I'm neutral. But it's interesting in the same way Lessig's May One or the genetic literacy project are interesting ... and manipulative. Even more political is the interesting neoreactionary movement. I'm even neutral about that, though I think I'm starting to turn a bit against it. The trick, as we've been discussing, is to never flip the bit one way or the other. On 06/29/2015 07:43 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: I am afraid I have not been following this closely enough to know the white hats from the black hats. I think one of the dimensions of disagreement here is on the possibility of social planning. If one thinks that the subject matters studied by sociologists and economists are essentially chaotic, then social planning is either foolish or manipulative … like bishops telling parishioners to defer gratification so they, the bishops, can live opulent lives in the Bishop’s Palace. As a consequence of running such a scam, the Vatican runs half of Rome, right? That new society sounds like a reforming and a planning lot. That’s as far as my thinking has gotten on this. As you see, it’s not very far. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] A New Society for the Study of Cultural Evolution
Robert wrote: The 2014 Annual Report names names for the Board of Directors See https://evolution-institute.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/NP_EI_2014_AnnualReport_web-printout.pdf; Gosh, can't we put science in one bin, politics in another, and religion somewhere else?Has it occurred to them that QoL changes as a function of experience? That people adapt to their environment? There is not one QoL fitness landscape, but many, and many in a life?These folks would be scary if they had resources, like a ranch in Antelope OR.I was in California a couple weeks ago and watched Jerry Brown talk about the water crisis. He's gifted in his profession of folksy persuasion, but it is clear that's his profession.These folks seemto think they can do that job. I don't think they could begin to.Meh. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
