Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[GloW - XD]

precisely why i did not screrw with peoples things and thx for poiting this
out.

Providers that steal other peoples hacks don't last long in the
underground. People take that personally :)

This is a BIG reason why, i did not, nor my coadmin, touch things, unless we
were invited to, and, never ever did any 'ircd steals' in that way, people
were paying me for a 'shell' , it was what i decided todo, and, then, i did
never even get once, emails from MY providrs, so why should i listen to some
dud who got his box owned and is spewing... it is kinda how i saw things, my
customers owned them, they compained to me, this caused me nothing but,
making a new user dir and, making new box for the user,. if this stuff
persisted, ie, nonstop compaints, and, uplink complaints would usually
follow, i still would try rehome them on a priv box.
So, i guess nowdays, maybe id not do this, but this was 2008.
xheers.
xd


On 1 October 2011 02:40, Laurelai  wrote:

>
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 9/30/2011 9:46 AM, Paul Schmehl wrote:
> > IOW, there is no honor among thieves.
> >
> > This isn't a new concept.
> >
> > --On September 30, 2011 3:31:06 PM +0100 Darren Martyn
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> By screw you over I did not intend to mean "sell you out". I meant a
> more
> >> criminal fucking over - where they backdoor the box (Hey, physical
> access
> >> and its THEIR server) and steal your criminal assets... i.e. steal, say,
> >> your formgrabber data (and keep it), jack your botnet, etc... SOme of
> >> them guys do just that. The domain "khant.info" used to be a "free
> botnet
> >> service" where one could use Khant's servers to run a botnet. It was
> >> marketed toward script kiddies, and after a few short months he ran off
> >> with their bots and their money :)
> >>
> >> Just an example of how common it is for a "bulletproof host" or such to
> >> fuck you over.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:56 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
> >>
> >> it is NOT atall.. he is kidding himself..
> >> I already said just ONE country where i could happily commit crimes, in
> >> the usa or uk from, and thru, panama.
> >> simple as that, they wont execute crap unless you commit fraud etc, on
> >> theyre home.
> >> cheers.
> >> xd
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 29 September 2011 23:54, Louis McCoy 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/29/2011 9:27 AM, Benji wrote:
> >>
> >> No, you are wrong.
> >>
> >>
> >> Either; the vpn provider complied with court order, or they face the
> >> legal ramifications of not doing so. User location is irrelevant.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> indeed :)
> >> but, it is how a proper anon person would operate, well, tht is how i
> >> once did...
> >> anyhow, it is to broad, and, yes, i qwould never believe in bulletproof,
> >> unless i have used it maybe, for 10yrs, thru 10 botnets ;P wich, is very
> >> rare but funnily, possible.
> >> webhosters, are even more corrupt and better at hiding data.. face it,
> >> if the vpn provider had not shat themself, then it would be a non story.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 29 September 2011 23:00, Benji  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> 'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on
> that
> >> ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but,
> i
> >> sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
> >> handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my
> company,
> >> i was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could
> >> do the same 'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
> >> it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not
> >> hard to move a user around boxes :P
> >> and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is
> >> somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company
> >> environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit
> >> apparently* companies...and they do it using those simple means, and,
> >> even show logs of them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad
> >> user' , this is, a whole different level than even needing to deal with
> >> cops.. so, you are scared too much by laws wich can be smokescreened.
> >> Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
> >> users they actually rm ;)
> >> you would want this service, on your vps ?
> >> i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon,
> >> if you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep
> my
> >> darn data secure ey ?
> >> how about that ?
> >> simple methods, defeat simple plans

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai]

On 9/30/2011 11:59 AM, adam wrote:
> "Cause them to face punishment in what country? Wouldn't they have to
> extradite them? What if their extradition treaty didn't cover
> cybercrime, or they didn't have one with the US?"
>
> I'm not sure you understood the example, and the mixing and matching
> you're doing here doesn't really work. If they're being "extradited"
> for violating a court order - it wouldn't very well be cybercrime,
> would it? No. Secondly, in the example provided, the service
> [provider] resides in the same place as the court handling the case -
> so there'd be no need for extradition in the first place. Third, If
> you take things out of context, twist them and then question them - of
> course they're not going to make much sense.
>
> Lastly, you're talking about the prosecution of such crimes. That's
> entirely different than a court ordering that X service turn over Y
> information about Z user. 
Its possible i misread it i have been up for over 24 hours
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[adam]

"Cause them to face punishment in what country? Wouldn't they have to
extradite them? What if their extradition treaty didn't cover cybercrime, or
they didn't have one with the US?"

I'm not sure you understood the example, and the mixing and matching you're
doing here doesn't really work. If they're being "extradited" for violating
a court order - it wouldn't very well be cybercrime, would it? No. Secondly,
in the example provided, the service [provider] resides in the same place as
the court handling the case - so there'd be no need for extradition in the
first place. Third, If you take things out of context, twist them and then
question them - of course they're not going to make much sense.

Lastly, you're talking about the prosecution of such crimes. That's entirely
different than a court ordering that X service turn over Y information about
Z user.
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
On 9/30/2011 9:46 AM, Paul Schmehl wrote:
> IOW, there is no honor among thieves.
>
> This isn't a new concept.
>
> --On September 30, 2011 3:31:06 PM +0100 Darren Martyn
>  wrote:
>
>> By screw you over I did not intend to mean "sell you out". I meant a more
>> criminal fucking over - where they backdoor the box (Hey, physical access
>> and its THEIR server) and steal your criminal assets... i.e. steal, say,
>> your formgrabber data (and keep it), jack your botnet, etc... SOme of
>> them guys do just that. The domain "khant.info" used to be a "free botnet
>> service" where one could use Khant's servers to run a botnet. It was
>> marketed toward script kiddies, and after a few short months he ran off
>> with their bots and their money :)
>>
>> Just an example of how common it is for a "bulletproof host" or such to
>> fuck you over.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:56 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>>
>>
>> User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
>>
>> it is NOT atall.. he is kidding himself..
>> I already said just ONE country where i could happily commit crimes, in
>> the usa or uk from, and thru, panama.
>> simple as that, they wont execute crap unless you commit fraud etc, on
>> theyre home.
>> cheers.
>> xd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 September 2011 23:54, Louis McCoy 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
>>
>>
>> On 9/29/2011 9:27 AM, Benji wrote:
>>
>> No, you are wrong.
>>
>>
>> Either; the vpn provider complied with court order, or they face the
>> legal ramifications of not doing so. User location is irrelevant.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>>
>>
>> indeed :)
>> but, it is how a proper anon person would operate, well, tht is how i
>> once did...
>> anyhow, it is to broad, and, yes, i qwould never believe in bulletproof,
>> unless i have used it maybe, for 10yrs, thru 10 botnets ;P wich, is very
>> rare but funnily, possible.
>> webhosters, are even more corrupt and better at hiding data.. face it,
>> if the vpn provider had not shat themself, then it would be a non story.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 September 2011 23:00, Benji  wrote:
>>
>>
>> 'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>>
>>
>> err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on that
>> ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but, i
>> sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
>> handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my company,
>> i was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could
>> do the same 'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
>> it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not
>> hard to move a user around boxes :P
>> and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is
>> somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company
>> environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit
>> apparently* companies...and they do it using those simple means, and,
>> even show logs of them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad
>> user' , this is, a whole different level than even needing to deal with
>> cops.. so, you are scared too much by laws wich can be smokescreened.
>> Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
>> users they actually rm ;)
>> you would want this service, on your vps ?
>> i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon,
>> if you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep my
>> darn data secure ey ?
>> how about that ?
>> simple methods, defeat simple plans benji.
>> xd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
>> located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
>> details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this
>> idea that they can't.
>>
>>
>> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
>> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country
>> to do this is either stupid or naive.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>>
>>
>> They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
>> Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
>> also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider
>> may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers,
>> should not be handed over.
>> isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not
>> take down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there
>> is many reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
>> Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they s

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
On 9/30/2011 10:45 AM, adam wrote:
> "User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?"
>
> Jurisdiction in the prosecution of such crimes, yes. In the
investigation itself, no. Which seems to be where all the confusion is
coming from. If you use a service in the US to commit a crime, and that
service is ordered by a court to turn over information about you,
they're legally obligated to do so. The content (e.g. your location) of
that information isn't relevant in terms of the court order - it only
becomes relevant in the prosecution of whatever crime you've committed.
What "glow" is suggesting is that if the service provider determined the
user's location to be somewhere in Russia, that they could then tell the
court "Sorry, but the user is located in a place that this court doesn't
have jurisdiction" - which not only wouldn't work, but would also cause
them to personally face punishment for violating a court order.
>
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Cause them to face punishment in what country? Wouldn't they have to
extradite them? What if their extradition treaty didn't cover
cybercrime, or they didn't have one with the US?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 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=ebyU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[adam]

"User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?"

Jurisdiction in the prosecution of such crimes, yes. In the investigation
itself, no. Which seems to be where all the confusion is coming from. If you
use a service in the US to commit a crime, and that service is ordered by a
court to turn over information about you, they're legally obligated to do
so. The content (e.g. your location) of that information isn't relevant in
terms of the court order - it only becomes relevant in the prosecution of
whatever crime you've committed. What "glow" is suggesting is that if the
service provider determined the user's location to be somewhere in Russia,
that they could then tell the court "Sorry, but the user is located in a
place that this court doesn't have jurisdiction" - which not only wouldn't
work, but would also cause them to personally face punishment for violating
a court order.
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Paul Schmehl]

IOW, there is no honor among thieves.

This isn't a new concept.

--On September 30, 2011 3:31:06 PM +0100 Darren Martyn 
 wrote:

> By screw you over I did not intend to mean "sell you out". I meant a more
> criminal fucking over - where they backdoor the box (Hey, physical access
> and its THEIR server) and steal your criminal assets... i.e. steal, say,
> your formgrabber data (and keep it), jack your botnet, etc... SOme of
> them guys do just that. The domain "khant.info" used to be a "free botnet
> service" where one could use Khant's servers to run a botnet. It was
> marketed toward script kiddies, and after a few short months he ran off
> with their bots and their money :)
>
> Just an example of how common it is for a "bulletproof host" or such to
> fuck you over.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:56 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>
>
> User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
>
> it is NOT atall.. he is kidding himself..
> I already said just ONE country where i could happily commit crimes, in
> the usa or uk from, and thru, panama.
> simple as that, they wont execute crap unless you commit fraud etc, on
> theyre home.
> cheers.
> xd
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 23:54, Louis McCoy 
> wrote:
>
>
> User location determines Judicial Jurisdiction - how is that irrelevant?
>
>
> On 9/29/2011 9:27 AM, Benji wrote:
>
> No, you are wrong. 
>
>
> Either; the vpn provider complied with court order, or they face the
> legal ramifications of not doing so. User location is irrelevant. 
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>
>
> indeed :)
>  but, it is how a proper anon person would operate, well, tht is how i
> once did...
>  anyhow, it is to broad, and, yes, i qwould never believe in bulletproof,
> unless i have used it maybe, for 10yrs, thru 10 botnets ;P wich, is very
> rare but funnily, possible.
>  webhosters, are even more corrupt and better at hiding data.. face it,
> if the vpn provider had not shat themself, then it would be a non story.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 23:00, Benji  wrote:
>
>
> 'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>
>
> err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on that
> ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but, i
> sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
> handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my company,
> i was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could
> do the same  'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
>  it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not
> hard to move a user around boxes :P
>   and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is
> somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company
> environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit
> apparently* companies...and they do it using those simple means, and,
> even show logs of them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad
> user' , this is, a whole different level than even needing to deal with
> cops.. so, you are scared too much by laws  wich can be smokescreened.
>  Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
> users they actually rm ;)
>  you would want this service, on your vps ?
>  i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon,
> if you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep my
> darn data secure ey ?
>  how about that ?
>  simple methods, defeat simple plans benji.
>  xd
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji  wrote:
>
>
> Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
> located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
> details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this
> idea that they can't.
>
>
> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country
> to do this is either stupid or naive.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>
>
> They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
>  Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
> also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider
> may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers,
> should not be handed over.
>  isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not
> take down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there
> is many reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
>  Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should
> have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and
> anyone. thats obvious crap we know now.
>  anyhow, cheers,
>  xd
>
>
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji  wrote:
>
>
> Im s

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[xD 0x41]

indeed :)
but, it is how a proper anon person would operate, well, tht is how i once
did...
anyhow, it is to broad, and, yes, i qwould never believe in bulletproof,
unless i have used it maybe, for 10yrs, thru 10 botnets ;P wich, is very
rare but funnily, possible.
webhosters, are even more corrupt and better at hiding data.. face it, if
the vpn provider had not shat themself, then it would be a non story.



On 29 September 2011 23:00, Benji  wrote:

> 'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different.
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>
>> err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on that
>> ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but, i
>> sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
>> handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my company, i
>> was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could do
>> the same  'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
>> it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not hard
>> to move a user around boxes :P
>>  and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is
>> somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company
>> environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit apparently*
>> companies...and they do it using those simple means, and, even show logs of
>> them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad user' , this is, a
>> whole different level than even needing to deal with cops.. so, you are
>> scared too much by laws  wich can be smokescreened.
>> Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
>> users they actually rm ;)
>> you would want this service, on your vps ?
>> i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon,
>> if you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep my
>> darn data secure ey ?
>> how about that ?
>> simple methods, defeat simple plans benji.
>> xd
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
>>> located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
>>> details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this idea
>>> that they can't.
>>>
>>> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
>>> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country to
>>> do this is either stupid or naive.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>>>
 They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
 Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
 also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider
 may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers,
 should not be handed over.
 isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not
 take down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there 
 is
 many reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
 Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should
 have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and
 anyone. thats obvious crap we know now.
 anyhow, cheers,
 xd



 On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji  wrote:

> Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK
> business and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
> d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
>> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
>> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some 
>> talented
>> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
>> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders 
>> and
>> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
>> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
>> were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>>
>> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing
>> new - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us
>> who are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>>
>> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all
>> there is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go
>> assuming that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
>> Good day.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm <
>> laure...@oneechan.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers
>>> might give over logs to opp

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[xD 0x41]

err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on that
... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but, i
sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my company, i
was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could do
the same  'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not hard to
move a user around boxes :P
 and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is somany
ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company environment coz
boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit apparently* companies...and
they do it using those simple means, and, even show logs of them 'removing
and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad user' , this is, a whole different
level than even needing to deal with cops.. so, you are scared too much by
laws  wich can be smokescreened.
Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
users they actually rm ;)
you would want this service, on your vps ?
i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon, if
you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep my darn
data secure ey ?
how about that ?
simple methods, defeat simple plans benji.
xd


On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji  wrote:

> Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
> located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
> details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this idea
> that they can't.
>
> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country to
> do this is either stupid or naive.
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>
>> They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
>> Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
>> also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider
>> may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers,
>> should not be handed over.
>> isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not take
>> down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there is many
>> reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
>> Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should
>> have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and
>> anyone. thats obvious crap we know now.
>> anyhow, cheers,
>> xd
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji  wrote:
>>
>>> Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK business
>>> and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
>>> d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
 The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
 recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some 
 talented
 programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
 was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders 
 and
 potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
 ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
 were but pawns to be used (IMHO).

 This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing new
 - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us who
 are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.

 On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there
 is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming
 that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
 Good day.


 On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm 
 wrote:

> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might
> give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and
> better.
> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed
> and
> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
> hopefully it
> > is just, cool.
> > :)
> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
> > take care ,
> > xd
> >
> >
> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
> >> > Hello Laurelai ,
> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[xD 0x41]

They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is also,
subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider may have
to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers, should not
be handed over.
isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not take
down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there is many
reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should have
maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and anyone.
thats obvious crap we know now.
anyhow, cheers,
xd


On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji  wrote:

> Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK business
> and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
> d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
>> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
>> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some talented
>> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
>> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders and
>> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
>> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
>> were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>>
>> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing new -
>> remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us who are
>> privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>>
>> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there is
>> to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming that I
>> hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
>> Good day.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm wrote:
>>
>>> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might
>>> give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and
>>> better.
>>> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
>>> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed
>>> and
>>> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
>>> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
>>> hopefully it
>>> > is just, cool.
>>> > :)
>>> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
>>> > take care ,
>>> > xd
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
>>> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
>>> >> > Hello Laurelai ,
>>> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even
>>> know
>>> >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
>>> >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
>>> >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
>>> >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy,
>>> in my
>>> >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
>>> >> torrent
>>> >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
>>> >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and
>>> what
>>> >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
>>> >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places
>>> like
>>> >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics,
>>> whom
>>> >> in
>>> >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think
>>> this
>>> >> is
>>> >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was
>>> apart
>>> >> of
>>> >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
>>> >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not
>>> alone
>>> >> by
>>> >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and,
>>> that
>>> >> is
>>> >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
>>> >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without
>>> realising,
>>> >> asked
>>> >> > a friend, to code for them.
>>> >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module
>>> running
>>> >> now.
>>> >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s
>>> look
>>> >> at
>>> >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon
>>> and a
>>> >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out
>>> with
>>> >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is
>>> mutual
>>> >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect
>>> th

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 14:25:42 BST, Darren Martyn said:

> Even Russian "bulletproof" hosts can screw you over.

Yes, but there's a limit to how many times the guys running those hosts can
sell you out to LEO's before the news gets around and they find themselves out
of the "bulletproof" business.



pgpwWnufUJZRn.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Georgi Guninski]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 02:09:29PM +0100, Benji wrote:
> 
> Honestly, by now you would think people would know: do everything yourself,
> trust no-one.


i second that. there is an old meme about it.

-- 
joro

___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Benji]

No, you are wrong.

Either; the vpn provider complied with court order, or they face the legal
ramifications of not doing so. User location is irrelevant.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:

> indeed :)
> but, it is how a proper anon person would operate, well, tht is how i once
> did...
> anyhow, it is to broad, and, yes, i qwould never believe in bulletproof,
> unless i have used it maybe, for 10yrs, thru 10 botnets ;P wich, is very
> rare but funnily, possible.
> webhosters, are even more corrupt and better at hiding data.. face it, if
> the vpn provider had not shat themself, then it would be a non story.
>
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 23:00, Benji  wrote:
>
>> 'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>>
>>> err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on that
>>> ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but, i
>>> sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
>>> handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my company, i
>>> was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could do
>>> the same  'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
>>> it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not hard
>>> to move a user around boxes :P
>>>  and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is
>>> somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company
>>> environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit apparently*
>>> companies...and they do it using those simple means, and, even show logs of
>>> them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad user' , this is, a
>>> whole different level than even needing to deal with cops.. so, you are
>>> scared too much by laws  wich can be smokescreened.
>>> Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
>>> users they actually rm ;)
>>> you would want this service, on your vps ?
>>> i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon,
>>> if you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep my
>>> darn data secure ey ?
>>> how about that ?
>>> simple methods, defeat simple plans benji.
>>> xd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji  wrote:
>>>
 Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
 located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
 details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this 
 idea
 that they can't.

 Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
 anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country 
 to
 do this is either stupid or naive.

 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:

> They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
> Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
> also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider
> may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers,
> should not be handed over.
> isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not
> take down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there 
> is
> many reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
> Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should
> have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and
> anyone. thats obvious crap we know now.
> anyhow, cheers,
> xd
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji  wrote:
>
>> Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK
>> business and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
>> d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
>>> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
>>> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some 
>>> talented
>>> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more 
>>> interesting
>>> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and 
>>> coders and
>>> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially 
>>> an
>>> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact 
>>> most
>>> were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>>>
>>> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing
>>> new - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of 
>>> us
>>> who are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>>>
>>> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all
>>> there is to kno

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Darren Martyn]

Even Russian "bulletproof" hosts can screw you over. Heihachi were
committing massive fraud, and another hosting provider (offering hosting for
botnets) was simply stealing your bots all the time, according to what I am
told.

If one is dealing with criminals/crooks to further ones own criminal
enterprises... One should expect that ones "helpers" will screw one over.

VPN services are almost snake oil in a sense - secure from other (l)users,
but not from LEO/.mil/.gov.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:16 PM, James Condron
wrote:

>
> On 29 Sep 2011, at 14:04, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:53:03 BST, Benji said:
> >
> >> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
> >> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related
> country to
> >> do this is either stupid or naive.
> >
> > There's also those servers that advertise "anonymous and likely to stay
> that
> > way because we've bought a few corrupt government officials".  But if
> you're
> > buying services from them, you''re neither stupid nor naive, and know
> *exactly*
> > why you're doing business with them
>
> Yep, you're buying a service from someone who can then, by extension, be
> bought themselves. Theres no money in buying off officials, its coming from
> somewhere- usually the highest bidder.
>
> Sounds pretty naive to me.
>
> >
> > ___
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai]

On 9/29/2011 3:51 AM, Darren Martyn wrote:
> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some
> talented programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more
> interesting was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the
> developers and coders and potential recruits in a channel named "Pure
> Elite", it was essentially an ego boost for the new guys, made them
> feel valued, etc, when in fact most were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>
> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing
> new - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of
> us who are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>
> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all
> there is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go
> assuming that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
> Good day.
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm  > wrote:
>
> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers
> might give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to
> look better and better.
>
> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  > wrote:
> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle
> pissed and
> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
> hopefully it
> > is just, cool.
> > :)
> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
> > take care ,
> > xd
> >
> >
> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm
> mailto:laure...@oneechan.org>> wrote:
> >
> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  > wrote:
> >> > Hello Laurelai ,
> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I
> dont even know
> >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
> >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
> >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is
> not just
> >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and
> privacy, in my
> >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
> >> >
> >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a
> huge
> >> torrent
> >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but
> by the
> >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
> >> >
> >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is
> 'anon' and what
> >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
> >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing
> places like
> >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to
> politics, whom
> >> in
> >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i
> think this
> >> is
> >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or
> whoever was apart
> >> of
> >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
> >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but
> not alone
> >> by
> >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout
> now..and, that
> >> is
> >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
> >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without
> realising,
> >> asked
> >> > a friend, to code for them.
> >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the
> module running
> >> now.
> >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode
> to it :s look
> >> at
> >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced
> drinemon and a
> >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked
> out with
> >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this
> is mutual
> >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn,
> expect the
> >> same.
> >> > Respect for respect dear.
> >> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see,
> am not
> >> holding
> >> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago,
> over one
> >> idiotic
> >> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So,
> i want
> >> that,
> >> > to be laid rest now.. please.
> >> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will
> prevail and
> >> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some
> way, wether
> >> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's
> of peoples

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[James Condron]

On 29 Sep 2011, at 14:04, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:53:03 BST, Benji said:
> 
>> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
>> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country to
>> do this is either stupid or naive.
> 
> There's also those servers that advertise "anonymous and likely to stay that
> way because we've bought a few corrupt government officials".  But if you're
> buying services from them, you''re neither stupid nor naive, and know 
> *exactly*
> why you're doing business with them

Yep, you're buying a service from someone who can then, by extension, be bought 
themselves. Theres no money in buying off officials, its coming from somewhere- 
usually the highest bidder.

Sounds pretty naive to me.

> 
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Benji]

And in that case, if you're trusting someone else to keep you anonymous,
again, you are stupid and naive.

Honestly, by now you would think people would know: do everything yourself,
trust no-one.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:04 PM,  wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:53:03 BST, Benji said:
>
> > Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
> > anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country
> to
> > do this is either stupid or naive.
>
> There's also those servers that advertise "anonymous and likely to stay
> that
> way because we've bought a few corrupt government officials".  But if
> you're
> buying services from them, you''re neither stupid nor naive, and know
> *exactly*
> why you're doing business with them
>
>
>
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:53:03 BST, Benji said:

> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country to
> do this is either stupid or naive.

There's also those servers that advertise "anonymous and likely to stay that
way because we've bought a few corrupt government officials".  But if you're
buying services from them, you''re neither stupid nor naive, and know *exactly*
why you're doing business with them




pgp2yINQHW96P.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Benji]

'Abuse' emails and court orders are very different.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:59 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:

> err, you are limited in those countries dude... id really checkup on that
> ... maybe some but, yea i agree, i dont think any hosting is anon, but, i
> sure know i have kept an anon dedis in past, and was VERY easy to avoid
> handing anything over. Unless they had personally seized from my company, i
> was allowed to basically get away with, and if i want to, again, could do
> the same  'anonymously' and, indeed keep those details, away.
> it is not frigin hard dude, where did Yyou get the idea, that is not hard
> to move a user around boxes :P
>  and rename them, etc etc etc, always change ipv6 tunnels... there is
> somany ways, you obv have not ran a dedicated server in a company
> environment coz boi, they hide nets on legit hostin now, legit apparently*
> companies...and they do it using those simple means, and, even show logs of
> them 'removing and deleting' files of the apprent 'bad user' , this is, a
> whole different level than even needing to deal with cops.. so, you are
> scared too much by laws  wich can be smokescreened.
> Run a dedis, or simply ask a admin, howmany abuse they get, and howmany
> users they actually rm ;)
> you would want this service, on your vps ?
> i surely wouldnt,. i know, with me, if i offer anon, you stay damn anon, if
> you bring cops to MY HOUSE, then i may have to try and, simply keep my darn
> data secure ey ?
> how about that ?
> simple methods, defeat simple plans benji.
> xd
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 22:53, Benji  wrote:
>
>> Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
>> located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
>> details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this idea
>> that they can't.
>>
>> Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
>> anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country to
>> do this is either stupid or naive.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:
>>
>>> They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
>>> Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
>>> also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider
>>> may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers,
>>> should not be handed over.
>>> isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not take
>>> down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there is many
>>> reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
>>> Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should
>>> have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and
>>> anyone. thats obvious crap we know now.
>>> anyhow, cheers,
>>> xd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji  wrote:
>>>
 Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK
 business and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?



 On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
 d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some 
> talented
> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders 
> and
> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
> were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>
> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing
> new - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us
> who are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>
> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there
> is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming
> that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
> Good day.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm  > wrote:
>
>> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might
>> give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and
>> better.
>> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
>> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle
>> pissed and
>> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
>> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
>> hopefully it
>> > is just, cool.
>> > :)
>> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
>> > take care ,
>> > xd
>> >
>> >
>> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm 
>

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Benji]

Yes they do. If you buy a server in America for example, even if you are
located in Russia, they are required by federal law to hand over your
details wherever you may reside. I dont know where you've obtained this idea
that they can't.

Just because something is advertised as 'anonymous' doesnt mean it's 'so
anonymous you can break the law' and anyone using a EU/US-related country to
do this is either stupid or naive.

On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM, xD 0x41  wrote:

> They advertised as anonymous VPN to 'everyone'.
> Then, that would mean, especially NOT locally, thats something wich is
> also, subject to federal laws though so, in its own country, the provider
> may have to, nomatter whats advertised, BUT outside of country customers,
> should not be handed over.
> isp's here dont do it, and havent, for like 20 yrs, they also do not take
> down people,issue nor execute other peoples 'takedown orders', there is many
> reasons for this but basically, they loose money from it.
> Anyhow, in UK, you maybe right, but outside of there, then, they should
> have maybe not advertised as anononymous vpn services for everyone and
> anyone. thats obvious crap we know now.
> anyhow, cheers,
> xd
>
>
>
> On 29 September 2011 22:45, Benji  wrote:
>
>> Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK business
>> and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
>> d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
>>> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to
>>> recruit some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some talented
>>> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
>>> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders and
>>> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
>>> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
>>> were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>>>
>>> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing new
>>> - remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us who
>>> are privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>>>
>>> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there
>>> is to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming
>>> that I hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
>>> Good day.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might
 give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and
 better.
 On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
 > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed
 and
 > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
 > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
 hopefully it
 > is just, cool.
 > :)
 > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
 > take care ,
 > xd
 >
 >
 > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm 
 wrote:
 >
 >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
 >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
 >> > Hello Laurelai ,
 >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even
 know
 >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
 >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
 >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
 >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy,
 in my
 >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
 >> >
 >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
 >> torrent
 >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by
 the
 >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
 >> >
 >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and
 what
 >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
 >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing
 places like
 >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics,
 whom
 >> in
 >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think
 this
 >> is
 >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was
 apart
 >> of
 >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
 >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not
 alone
 >> by
 >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout
 now..and, that
 >> is
 >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
 >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually 

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Benji]

Im sorry, why is it 'worrying' that a vpn provider that was a UK business
and was located in the UK, is subject to UK law?



On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM, Darren Martyn <
d.martyn.fulldisclos...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
> The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to recruit
> some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some talented
> programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
> was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders and
> potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
> ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
> were but pawns to be used (IMHO).
>
> This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing new -
> remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us who are
> privacy advocates as well as security researchers.
>
> On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there is
> to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming that I
> hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
> Good day.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm wrote:
>
>> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might
>> give over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and
>> better.
>> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
>> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed
>> and
>> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
>> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and
>> hopefully it
>> > is just, cool.
>> > :)
>> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
>> > take care ,
>> > xd
>> >
>> >
>> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
>> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
>> >> > Hello Laurelai ,
>> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even
>> know
>> >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
>> >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
>> >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
>> >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy,
>> in my
>> >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
>> >> torrent
>> >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
>> >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and
>> what
>> >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
>> >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places
>> like
>> >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics,
>> whom
>> >> in
>> >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think
>> this
>> >> is
>> >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was
>> apart
>> >> of
>> >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
>> >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not
>> alone
>> >> by
>> >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and,
>> that
>> >> is
>> >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
>> >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without realising,
>> >> asked
>> >> > a friend, to code for them.
>> >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module
>> running
>> >> now.
>> >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s
>> look
>> >> at
>> >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon and
>> a
>> >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out with
>> >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is
>> mutual
>> >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect
>> the
>> >> same.
>> >> > Respect for respect dear.
>> >> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not
>> >> holding
>> >> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one
>> >> idiotic
>> >> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i want
>> >> that,
>> >> > to be laid rest now.. please.
>> >> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail and
>> >> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way,
>> wether
>> >> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of
>> peoples
>> >> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for VPN,
>> I
>> >> do
>> >> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
>> >> that,without
>> >> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now legal
>> and
>

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Darren Martyn]

Again, I hope this does not fail to send.
The reasoning behind the "Pure Elite" recruitment channel was A: to recruit
some talented people (and, by all accounts, there were some talented
programmers there) and B: development and idle talk. Now more interesting
was the reasoning behind the name - by putting the developers and coders and
potential recruits in a channel named "Pure Elite", it was essentially an
ego boost for the new guys, made them feel valued, etc, when in fact most
were but pawns to be used (IMHO).

This co-operation between VPN providers and LEO, while being nothing new -
remember how hushmail caved in - is indeed worrying for those of us who are
privacy advocates as well as security researchers.

On a more direct note, Laurelei, do not presume that you know all there is
to know about them. Doing so would be foolish. (Now don't go assuming that I
hate you, I bear you bugger all ill-will, etc).
Good day.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:44 AM, Laurelai Storm wrote:

> Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might give
> over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and better.
> On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
> > never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed and
> > thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
> > I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and hopefully
> it
> > is just, cool.
> > :)
> > cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
> > take care ,
> > xd
> >
> >
> > On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
> >> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
> >> > Hello Laurelai ,
> >> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even
> know
> >> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
> >> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
> >> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
> >> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy, in
> my
> >> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
> >> >
> >> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
> >> torrent
> >> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
> >> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
> >> >
> >> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and
> what
> >> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
> >> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places
> like
> >> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics,
> whom
> >> in
> >> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think
> this
> >> is
> >> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was
> apart
> >> of
> >> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
> >> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not
> alone
> >> by
> >> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and,
> that
> >> is
> >> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
> >> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without realising,
> >> asked
> >> > a friend, to code for them.
> >> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module running
> >> now.
> >> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s
> look
> >> at
> >> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon and
> a
> >> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out with
> >> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is
> mutual
> >> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect the
> >> same.
> >> > Respect for respect dear.
> >> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not
> >> holding
> >> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one
> >> idiotic
> >> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i want
> >> that,
> >> > to be laid rest now.. please.
> >> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail and
> >> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way,
> wether
> >> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of
> peoples
> >> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for VPN,
> I
> >> do
> >> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
> >> that,without
> >> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now legal
> and
> >> not
> >> > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
> >> > ok, thats plenty, cheers!
> >> > xd
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
> >> >> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Fere

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai Storm]

Its all good dude. What really concerns me is that vpn providers might give
over logs to oppressive regemes. TOR is starting to look better and better.
On Sep 27, 2011 11:40 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
> never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed and
> thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
> I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and hopefully
it
> is just, cool.
> :)
> cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
> take care ,
> xd
>
>
> On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm  wrote:
>
>> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
>> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
>> > Hello Laurelai ,
>> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even
know
>> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
>> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
>> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
>> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy, in
my
>> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
>> >
>> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
>> torrent
>> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
>> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
>> >
>> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and
what
>> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
>> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places
like
>> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics,
whom
>> in
>> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think this
>> is
>> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was
apart
>> of
>> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
>> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not alone
>> by
>> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and,
that
>> is
>> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
>> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without realising,
>> asked
>> > a friend, to code for them.
>> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module running
>> now.
>> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s
look
>> at
>> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon and a
>> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out with
>> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is mutual
>> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect the
>> same.
>> > Respect for respect dear.
>> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not
>> holding
>> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one
>> idiotic
>> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i want
>> that,
>> > to be laid rest now.. please.
>> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail and
>> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way,
wether
>> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of peoples
>> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for VPN, I
>> do
>> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
>> that,without
>> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now legal
and
>> not
>> > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
>> > ok, thats plenty, cheers!
>> > xd
>> >
>> >
>> > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
>> >> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs"  wrote:
>> >> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD 
wrote:
>> >> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
>> >> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why
>> do
>> >> ppl
>> >> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
>> >> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
>> >> >> xd
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing
as
>> it
>> >> is
>> >> >>> an international investigation many people have been bending over
>> >> backwards
>> >> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of
>> choice
>> >> for
>> >> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite
channel
>> on
>> >> that
>> >> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of
>> >> LulzSec".
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm <
>> laure...@oneechan.org
>> >> >
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>  And the guy wasnt even a part o

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[GloW - XD]

never did... was only for one buttcheek kid that i was alittle pissed and
thinking things wich, prolly were wrong at the time...
I am adult enough to apologise for what happened back then, and hopefully it
is just, cool.
:)
cheers, your loved by many, you just have many trollers to :sp
take care ,
xd


On 28 September 2011 14:32, Laurelai Storm  wrote:

> Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
> On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
> > Hello Laurelai ,
> > Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even know
> > where, legally, i stand anymore...
> > It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
> > I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
> > happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy, in my
> > channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
> >
> > Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge
> torrent
> > site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
> > frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
> >
> > This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and what
> > isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
> > To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places like
> > Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics, whom
> in
> > turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think this
> is
> > the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was apart
> of
> > it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
> > Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not alone
> by
> > being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and, that
> is
> > every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
> > m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without realising,
> asked
> > a friend, to code for them.
> > This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module running
> now.
> > So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s look
> at
> > what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon and a
> > bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out with
> > words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is mutual
> > Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect the
> same.
> > Respect for respect dear.
> > I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not
> holding
> > 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one
> idiotic
> > kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i want
> that,
> > to be laid rest now.. please.
> > And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail and
> > hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way, wether
> > that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of peoples
> > info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for VPN, I
> do
> > not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
> that,without
> > political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now legal and
> not
> > legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
> > ok, thats plenty, cheers!
> > xd
> >
> >
> > On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai  wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
> >>
> >> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
> >> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs"  wrote:
> >> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD  wrote:
> >> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
> >> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why
> do
> >> ppl
> >> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
> >> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
> >> >> xd
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing as
> it
> >> is
> >> >>> an international investigation many people have been bending over
> >> backwards
> >> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of
> choice
> >> for
> >> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite channel
> on
> >> that
> >> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of
> >> LulzSec".
> >> >>>
> >> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm <
> laure...@oneechan.org
> >> >
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> 
> >>  And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
> >> 
> >>  On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton" 
> >> wrote:
> >>  > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan . 
> wrote:
> >>  >>
> >>  >>
> >>
> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
> >>  > Though HMA claims they 

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai Storm]

Im suprised, someone on the internet who *doesn't * hate me :p
On Sep 27, 2011 11:29 PM, "GloW - XD"  wrote:
> Hello Laurelai ,
> Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even know
> where, legally, i stand anymore...
> It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
> I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
> happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy, in my
> channel on efnet, first as i saw it.
>
> Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge torrent
> site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
> frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.
>
> This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and what
> isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
> To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places like
> Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics, whom
in
> turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think this is
> the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was apart
of
> it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
> Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not alone by
> being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and, that
is
> every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have a module
> m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without realising,
asked
> a friend, to code for them.
> This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module running
now.
> So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s look
at
> what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon and a
> bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out with
> words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is mutual
> Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect the
same.
> Respect for respect dear.
> I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not
holding
> 9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one idiotic
> kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i want that,
> to be laid rest now.. please.
> And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail and
> hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way, wether
> that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of peoples
> info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for VPN, I do
> not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly
that,without
> political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now legal and
not
> legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
> ok, thats plenty, cheers!
> xd
>
>
> On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai  wrote:
>
>> On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
>>
>> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
>> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs"  wrote:
>> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
>> >
>> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD  wrote:
>> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
>> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why do
>> ppl
>> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
>> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
>> >> xd
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing as
it
>> is
>> >>> an international investigation many people have been bending over
>> backwards
>> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of
choice
>> for
>> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite channel
on
>> that
>> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of
>> LulzSec".
>> >>>
>> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm <
laure...@oneechan.org
>> >
>> >>> wrote:
>> 
>>  And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
>> 
>>  On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton" 
>> wrote:
>>  > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>
http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
>>  > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
>>  > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI
have
>> no
>>  > jurisdiction in the UK.
>>  >
>>  > Jeff
>>  >
>>  > ___
>>  > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>  > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>  > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>> 
>>  ___
>>  Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>  Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/fu

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[GloW - XD]

Hello Laurelai ,
Oh i agree it is still a terrible precedent to be set.. I dont even know
where, legally, i stand anymore...
It is rather disturbing, nomatter WHO it was laurela.
I am all for the hatred against the VPN provs, and this is not just
happening here, and i made a BIG statement about this, and privacy, in my
channel on efnet, first as i saw it.

Then saw a torrentfreak feed,of someone who was an owner of a huge torrent
site, was handed to authorities, not by the hoster, no... but by the
frigging payment handler, ie paypal or alertpay most likely.

This is not good, it makes a grey could now over what is 'anon' and what
isnt. and thats a bad thing for us all.
To much fraud is causing this, thats plain and simple.Abusing places like
Sony, and, major banks, only make the authorities turn to politics, whom in
turn can bully with federal and state laws of ANY country, i think this is
the dangerous part wich is affecting lulzsec members or whoever was apart of
it, and, i mean efnet is no recruiting grounds for decent hkrs.
Simple as that, you know it, maybe thru word of mouth ok, but not alone by
being in channels but that network, is one federal hideout now..and, that is
every channel, if it is not being spied (yea they have  a module
m_spychannel.c or similar, wich, they actually had without realising, asked
a friend, to code for them.
This was rejected by me/her,but i believe they have the module running now.
So, what was to stop them adding theyre own hidden spy mode to it :s look at
what they did to my old channel #haqnet, they introduced drinemon and a
bunch of other things, when it could have been simply worked out with
words.. but anyhow, i will not brood on the past, i hope this is mutual
Laurelai, I have nothing bad to say about you, and in turn, expect the same.
Respect for respect dear.
I do agree with you about the situation and, as you can see, am not holding
9undisclosed) crappy things wich happened along time ago, over one idiotic
kid, on efnet, whom now i know you do not associate with. So, i want that,
to be laid rest now.. please.
And, we can only hope that the greater common sense will prevail and
hopefully, places will be forced to proove anonymity in some way, wether
that be by showing people email interaction with requester's of peoples
info, or anything simple even, wich would be then a standard for VPN, I do
not use them but, if i bought anonymous vpn, id expect exactly that,without
political interaction and grey areas about who and what is now legal and not
legal on the internet, on chatrooms, and on even websites.
ok, thats plenty, cheers!
xd


On 28 September 2011 13:41, Laurelai  wrote:

>  On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
>
> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs"  wrote:
> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD  wrote:
> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why do
> ppl
> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
> >> xd
> >>
> >>
> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
> >>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing as it
> is
> >>> an international investigation many people have been bending over
> backwards
> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of choice
> for
> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite channel on
> that
> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of
> LulzSec".
> >>>
> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm  >
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
> 
>  On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton" 
> wrote:
>  > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
>  > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
>  > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI have
> no
>  > jurisdiction in the UK.
>  >
>  > Jeff
>  >
>  > ___
>  > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>  > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>  > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> 
>  ___
>  Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>  Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>  Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >>> Hosted

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai]

On 9/27/2011 10:10 PM, sandeep k wrote:
>
> Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
>
> On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs"  > wrote:
> > yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD  > wrote:
> >> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
> >> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why
> do ppl
> >> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
> >> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
> >> xd
> >>
> >>
> >> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
> >>  > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing
> as it is
> >>> an international investigation many people have been bending over
> backwards
> >>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of
> choice for
> >>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite
> channel on that
> >>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of
> LulzSec".
> >>>
> >>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm
> mailto:laure...@oneechan.org>>
> >>> wrote:
> 
>  And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
> 
>  On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"  > wrote:
>  > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  > wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
>  > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
>  > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI
> have no
>  > jurisdiction in the UK.
>  >
>  > Jeff
>  >
>  > ___
>  > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>  > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>  > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> 
>  ___
>  Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>  Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>  Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ferenc Kovács
> > @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
> >
> > ___
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>From my understanding they used the channel as a possible recruitment
ground, though only 6 people were officially a part of lulzsec , i find
it disturbing that law enforcement considers being in an irc channel
tantamount to being a part of lulzsec.
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[sandeep k]

Lolz members was really insane ,i m not why to use that crapy hma.
On Sep 27, 2011 8:36 PM, "Ferenc Kovacs"  wrote:
> yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)
>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD  wrote:
>> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
>> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why do
ppl
>> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
>> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
>> xd
>>
>>
>> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing as it
is
>>> an international investigation many people have been bending over
backwards
>>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of choice
for
>>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite channel on
that
>>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of
LulzSec".
>>>
>>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm 
>>> wrote:

 And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec

 On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"  wrote:
 > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
 >>
 >>
http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
 > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
 > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI have
no
 > jurisdiction in the UK.
 >
 > Jeff
 >
 > ___
 > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
 > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
 > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

 ___
 Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
 Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
 Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ferenc Kovács
> @Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Ferenc Kovacs]

yeah, and usually the same goes for calling others "kids" ;)

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 10:30 PM, GloW - XD  wrote:
> #pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
> hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why do ppl
> tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
> ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
> xd
>
>
> On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing as it is
>> an international investigation many people have been bending over backwards
>> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of choice for
>> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite channel on that
>> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of LulzSec".
>>
>> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
>>>
>>> On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"  wrote:
>>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
>>> > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
>>> > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI have no
>>> > jurisdiction in the UK.
>>> >
>>> > Jeff
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>



-- 
Ferenc Kovács
@Tyr43l - http://tyrael.hu

___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[GloW - XD]

#pure-elite , rofl... yes indeed :P
hehe... nice story tho...funny about the elite channel thing... why do ppl
tag themselves as elite? usually when they are not...
ohwell, thats efnut :s (irc sucks)
xd


On 27 September 2011 19:03, Darren Martyn  wrote:

> Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing as it is
> an international investigation many people have been bending over backwards
> to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of choice for
> them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite channel on that
> IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of LulzSec".
>
> TL;DR, this is nothing new.
>
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm wrote:
>
>> And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
>> On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"  wrote:
>> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
>> >>
>> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
>> > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
>> > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI have no
>> > jurisdiction in the UK.
>> >
>> > Jeff
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>> ___
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Darren Martyn]

Hope this sends correctly, new email client and all... But seeing as it is
an international investigation many people have been bending over backwards
to assist LEO on this. HMA and perfect privacy were the VPN's of choice for
them it would appear, oh, and he was part of the #pure-elite channel on that
IRC server, and hence, considered by LEO and others as "Part of LulzSec".

TL;DR, this is nothing new.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 6:53 AM, Laurelai Storm wrote:

> And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
> On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"  wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
> >>
> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
> > Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
> > they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI have no
> > jurisdiction in the UK.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > ___
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Laurelai Storm]

And the guy wasnt even a part of lulzsec
On Sep 26, 2011 10:37 PM, "Jeffrey Walton"  wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
>>
http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
> Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
> they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI have no
> jurisdiction in the UK.
>
> Jeff
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Ivan .  wrote:
> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
Though HMA claims they complied with a court order, it looks as if
they facilitated a law enforcement request. The US and the FBI have no
jurisdiction in the UK.

Jeff

___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

[Full-disclosure] VPN provider helped track down alleged LulzSec member

[Ivan .]

http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/VPN-provider-helped-track-down-alleged-LulzSec-member-1349666.html
___
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/