Muhammad Yunus article
Credit where credit's due by Muhammad Yunus from The Guardian Weekly 8 November 1998 Muhammad Yunus is a banker who has a plan to end world poverty with (GBP)17 and a lot of trust. And in Bangladesh it works. Here he explains how Credit where credit's due THERE are many ways for people to die, but somehow dying of starvation is the most unacceptable of all. It happens in slow motion. Second by second, the distance between life and death becomes smaller and smaller. At one point, life and death are in such close proximity one can hardly see the difference, and one literally doesn't know if the mother and child prostrate on the ground are of this world or the next. Death happens so quietly, so inexorably, you don't even hear it. And all this happens because a person does not have a handful of food to eat at each meal. The tiny baby, who does not yet understand the mystery of the world, cries and cries, and finally falls asleep, without the milk it needs so badly. The next day maybe it won't even have the strength to cry. I used to get excited teaching my university students in Bangladesh how economic theories provided answers to economic problems of all types. I got carried away by the beauty and elegance of these theories. Yet all of a sudden I started having an empty feeling. What good were all these elegant theories when people died of starvation on pavements and on doorsteps? My classroom now seemed to me like a cinema where you could relax because you knew that the good guy in the film would ultimately win. In the classroom I knew, right from the beginning, that each economic problem would have an elegant ending. But when I came out of the classroom I was faced with the real world. Here, good guys were mercilessly beaten and trampled. I wanted to understand the reality around a poor person's existence and discover the real-life economics that were played out every day in my country so I decided to spend some time in the neighbouring village of Jobra. I decided I would become a student all over again, and Jobra would be my university. One day, as my colleague and I were making our rounds there, we stopped at a completely run-down house. We saw a woman working with bamboo, making a stool. She was squatting on the dirt floor of her veranda under the low, rotten, thatched roof of her house, totally absorbed in her work. She was holding the half-finished stool between her knees while plaiting the strands of bamboo cane. Children were running around naked in the yard. Neighbours appeared and watched us, wondering what we were doing there. She was in her early 20s, thin, with dark skin, black eyes. She wore a red sari and could have been any one of a million women who labour every day from morning to night in utter destitution. Her name was Sufia Begum and she was 21 years old. "Do you own this bamboo?" I asked her. "Yes." "How do you get it?" "I buy it." "How much does the bamboo cost you?" "Five taka." That was 13 pence (21 US cents). "Do you have five taka?" "No, I borrow it from the paikars." "The middlemen? What is your arrangement with them?" "I must sell my bamboo stools back to them at the end of the day, so as to repay my loan. That way what is left over to me is my profit." "How much do you sell it for?" "Five taka and 50 paisa." "So you make 50 paisa profit?" She nodded. That came to a profit of just over a penny. "And could you borrow the cash and buy your own raw material?" "Yes, but the money-lender would demand a lot. And people who start with them only get poorer." "How much do the money-lenders charge?" "It depends. Sometimes they charge 10 per cent per week. I even have a neighbour who is paying 10 per cent per day." Sufia set to work again, because she did not want to lose any time talking with us. I watched her small, brown hands plaiting the strands of bamboo as they had every day for months and years on end. This was her livelihood. She squatted on the hard mud. Her fingers were callused, her nails black with grime. It seemed to me that Sufia's status as virtually a bonded slave was never going to change if she could not find that five taka to start with. Credit could bring her that money. She could then sell her products in a free market and could get a much better spread between the cost of her materials and her sale price. The next day I called in a university student who collected data for me, and I asked her to assist me in making a list of how many in Jobra, like Sufia, were borrowing from traders and missing out on what they should have been earning from the fruits of their labours. Within a week, we had prepared a list. It named 42 people who in total had borrowed 856 taka, a total of less than (GBP)17 ($28). "My God, my God, all this misery in all these 42 families all because of the lack of (GBP)17!" I exclaimed. My mind wouldn't let this problem lie. I wanted to be of help to these 42 able-bodied, hard-working people. I kept going round and round the
Re: More Angell Dust
Ian Angell is for real. He is a Professor of Computer Science at the LSE in the UK and is making something of a career out of making remarks such as those I forwarded. My sense is that he took Ms. Thatcher rather too much to heart... M On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Caspar Davis wrote: > Is this for real? Who is this guy? I plead ignorance, but I need to > know if this is straight or satire. And if straight, who he is and what > his sphere of influence. > > Caspar Davis
Re: Caordic change and Greens?
Don Chisholm presents a cogent and clear picture of the green movement. What is more to the point is the reaction which he has seen from the general public and from the parishes where the church leaders with whom he met tried to explain the situation. I can not argue with the assessment of the earth, today. Where I have a problem is with the "future". Whenever we have gone to "war" be it with guns or with science to cure a problem, there has been an "end"- A hill we could reach and watch the sun come up on a new day-some hope for the future- an opportunity to strech and breath and move forward to. What the "green" visions hold is not such a possibility but the idea that if we all get behind the movement the human race and the planet can survive- humans get to live another day. yes, the air will be clean and the fields will be green and the waters blue. But what of the human spirit? And there is the rub. Don says that it is time to stop the metaphysics and get with the program. But, what the greens offer is not hope but a plan to get us off a "sinking ship" and onto some island, an idyllic one, perhaps, but a New Age munchkin land, never-the-less. It's that or destruction I remember an interview with a worker in the former East Germany where there was discussion about closing a factory because it was so polluted. And the worker replied that he would choose a potentially slow death from cancer rather than a quick death from starvation. And there is the old story about the African standing with the Peace Corps worker looking at mining spoils. The African turns to the Peace Corps worker and says, "let me, first, get my TV and phone and... then we can talk about the environment." That is the problem with the "green" movement. It offers only a possible vision of some stasis in a "village" if we are "lucky" and megadeath if we follow the path we are on. I think I would rather put my faith in human ingenuity- take the chance on humans rather than be caught in some reconstructed vision of the past. George Land has a seminal book called "Grow or Die". I think that is what the worker in Germany is saying and what many citizens of the world are saying. The human spirit and creativity has made many mistakes in the past and will continue to make more in the future. But humans learn from their mistakes quickly because intellegence is Lamarkian and doens't require many generations of Darwinian evolution to change. One can't argue with Jay's predictions on energy. One can make more energy efficient "things" and find alternative paths. But to do that one has to see the benefit beyond survival in some world which seems one step above that of a Penatante. Philosophy and Visons are what make us human. If we stop hoping and aspiring, then capitulation maybe the path. thoughts? tom abeles
Re: More Angell Dust
Is this for real? Who is this guy? I plead ignorance, but I need to know if this is straight or satire. And if straight, who he is and what his sphere of influence. Caspar Davis
Re: Caordic change and Greens?
At 11:00 AM 11/26/98 -0600, Tom Abeles [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >Don Chisholm presents a cogent and clear picture of the green movement. >What is more to the point is the reaction which he has seen from the >general public and from the parishes where the church leaders with whom >he met tried to explain the situation. > >I can not argue with the assessment of the earth, today. Where I have a >problem is with the "future". Whenever we have gone to "war" be it with >guns or with science to cure a problem, there has been an "end"- A hill >we could reach and watch the sun come up on a new day-some hope for the >future- an opportunity to strech and breath and move forward to. > >What the "green" visions hold is not such a possibility but the idea >that if we all get behind the movement the human race and the planet can >survive- humans get to live another day. yes, the air will be clean and >the fields will be green and the waters blue. But what of the human >spirit? And there is the rub. DC Tom, without human spirit, nothing positive will happen. It cannot be left behind. It must be the driving passion enabling the story of chaordic change. They say it can move mountains. How about moving public opinion and freeing hijacked governance? A couple of years ago I sketched a some scenarios about the how the future might unfold. The story needed a moment, so it was called, 'TEAMSpirit; (The EArth Movement). In Reverend Thomas Berry's Dream Of The Earth, he speaks of the need for a story which fits both the human spirit and the natural world. Now he should be a pretty spiritual guy! TA >Don says that it is time to stop the metaphysics and get with the >program. But, what the greens offer is not hope but a plan to get us off >a "sinking ship" and onto some island, an idyllic one, perhaps, but a >New Age munchkin land, never-the-less. It's that or destruction DC I'm sure that a variety of metaphysical beliefs could be integrated into to the effort. After all, it could be God's will that we get the show on the road. Can't afford to leave out any potential allies, eh? >I remember an interview with a worker in the former East Germany where >there was discussion about closing a factory because it was so polluted. >And the worker replied that he would choose a potentially slow death >from cancer rather than a quick death from starvation. And there is the >old story about the African standing with the Peace Corps worker looking >at mining spoils. The African turns to the Peace Corps worker and says, >"let me, first, get my TV and phone and... then we can talk about the >environment." > >That is the problem with the "green" movement. It offers only a possible >vision of some stasis in a "village" if we are "lucky" and megadeath if >we follow the path we are on. The possibility of a "village" as a "problem"??, in view of tha alternate? . >I think I would rather put my faith in human ingenuity- take the chance >on humans rather than be caught in some reconstructed vision of the >past. George Land has a seminal book called "Grow or Die". I think that >is what the worker in Germany is saying and what many citizens of the >world are saying. The human spirit and creativity has made many mistakes >in the past and will continue to make more in the future. But humans >learn from their mistakes quickly because intellegence is Lamarkian and >doens't require many generations of Darwinian evolution to change. DC It seems to me that it is exactly those features, human spirit and human ingenuity, which might enable us to begin the change process. >One can't argue with Jay's predictions on energy. One can make more >energy efficient "things" and find alternative paths. But to do that one >has to see the benefit beyond survival in some world which seems one >step above that of a Penatante. > >Philosophy and Visons are what make us human. If we stop hoping and >aspiring, then capitulation maybe the path. > >thoughts? > >tom abeles DC The last paragraph of my post of yesterday's was: "If all Green political groups were all as progressive as the Ontario Greens now seem to be, and since they have global presence now, with a little help from very many places, perhaps they could grow into a challenging force leading to STAGE ONE of a social contract shift which gives due respect for Gaia, in the human/Gaia relationship." I believe that if a movement for change could achieve a critical mass of synergy and support, scaling back the current economic growth madness would only be STAGE ONE. How governance would the change after ten or twenty years, who knows. But IF there were a well informed pubic who understand physical limits, or who believed credible leaders (perhaps spiritual leaders?) who did understand, I expect the future could be much more pleasant than today. Don Chisholm
Re: FW: Re Chaordic change and the Story
as soon as people realise that communism means democratic socialism which is as much antithesis to stalinism as to capitalism, more people will "come out" as it were... I am proud to be a communist as defined originally, e.g. Marx's Manifesto. Eva > As often happens, I totally agree with you, Eva. > > I had better be careful, or people will think that I am a COMMUNIST, God > (if there is a god) forbid > :-) > > Colin > > > > > At 08:31 AM 11/26/98 +, Eva Durant wrote: > >Half of the population is above average intelligence, > >and that half is better at communication... > >The point is, that without active and conscious > >participation you cannot affect any change; > >so we have no choice but to go for democracy. > >Every option has risks, this one has the > >most chance. Cooperation was always the main > >survivor feature of humans, more and > >more wide-ranging and integrated over > >the centuries, with tyranny and chauvinism > >the periodical backswing. > >Global conscious collectivity > >seems to be the next logical progression - > >hopefully, this time leaving no chance > >(uninformed, left-out mass base) for > >medieval reaction. > > > >Contempt for humanity have never worked, > >for sure. > > > >Eva > >
Re: FW: Re Chaordic change and the Story
As often happens, I totally agree with you, Eva. I had better be careful, or people will think that I am a COMMUNIST, God (if there is a god) forbid :-) Colin At 08:31 AM 11/26/98 +, Eva Durant wrote: >Half of the population is above average intelligence, >and that half is better at communication... >The point is, that without active and conscious >participation you cannot affect any change; >so we have no choice but to go for democracy. >Every option has risks, this one has the >most chance. Cooperation was always the main >survivor feature of humans, more and >more wide-ranging and integrated over >the centuries, with tyranny and chauvinism >the periodical backswing. >Global conscious collectivity >seems to be the next logical progression - >hopefully, this time leaving no chance >(uninformed, left-out mass base) for >medieval reaction. > >Contempt for humanity have never worked, >for sure. > >Eva
Re: More Angell Dust
-Original Message- From: Michael Gurstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: futurework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Caspar Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: November 26, 1998 5:12 PM Subject: Re: More Angell Dust > >Ian Angell is for real. He is a Professor of Computer Science at the LSE >in the UK and is making something of a career out of making remarks such >as those I forwarded. > >My sense is that he took Ms. Thatcher rather too much to heart... > >M > >On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Caspar Davis wrote: > >> Is this for real? Who is this guy? I plead ignorance, but I need to >> know if this is straight or satire. And if straight, who he is and what >> his sphere of influence. >> >> Caspar Davis > > This answered the question I was about to ask, namely, is this Angell guy British? As soon as I read it, it sounded to me like a nutty (and obnoxious) Brit I heard interviewed on CBC quite some time ago. It must have been four years ago when we were building our new horse barn as I was on my way to rent a hammer drill and never did hear the end of the interview. Novelist John Barth wrote, "There is many a cowpat on the road to heaven." I foresee many on the road of Angell's disciples to their IT heaven. (1) Their electronic citadel will never be as impregnable as he likes to think. It will always be subject to attacks from various sources: juvenile hackers who simply want to piss on the IT altar as a teenage rite de passage; rogue crackers who will continue to demand, "your money or your database''; and (if they ever establish anything like the dominance they want) electronic saboteurs--note, he is talking about turning programmers into techno-peasants. (2) I doubt that IT will afford the opportunities that these self-appointed alphas think it will. Some people in the field feel that it will be totally automated in 20 years. Thus the smartass alphas will be downsized unless they happen to have inherited a few hundred million. (3) Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I believe an IT economy can only exist by piggybacking on the conventional economy which deals in tangible goods and services. As I see it, all digital expertise is applied to only two areas, either entertainment products which are purchased by people out of their discretionary income, or applications which are ultimately (even at several removes) about the physical world, controlling a manufacturing process, shipping products, raising capital to build a factory, acquiring data to do something in the real world. If I am right about this and Angell is wrong, then he is operating under the same delusion as companies like Nike that relocate manufacturing to low-wage economies, the delusion that they can have a few $0.30 an hour workers and a lot of $50 an hour consumers purchasing their products. It can work for a few, but as soon as a significant number jump in, it becomes a pyramid scheme and collapses. Victor Milne FIGHT THE BASTARDS! An anti-neoconservative website at http://www3.sympatico.ca/pat-vic/pat-vic/ LONESOME ACRES RIDING STABLE at http://www3.sympatico.ca/pat-vic/
Re: FW: Re Chaordic change and the Story
Half of the population is above average intelligence, and that half is better at communication... The point is, that without active and conscious participation you cannot affect any change; so we have no choice but to go for democracy. Every option has risks, this one has the most chance. Cooperation was always the main survivor feature of humans, more and more wide-ranging and integrated over the centuries, with tyranny and chauvinism the periodical backswing. Global conscious collectivity seems to be the next logical progression - hopefully, this time leaving no chance (uninformed, left-out mass base) for medieval reaction. Contempt for humanity have never worked, for sure. Eva > > It seems to me you have been advocating a society with cooperative > ownership - a variety of democratic socialism - along with large > amounts of direct democracy. The problem is there is no guarantee > that large amounts of direct democracy will necessarily result in > the society you envision. It is by no means clear that letting > people participate in the day to day decisions of government > directly will result in enlightened policy. Not that it might > be any worse than what we have now, but it might certainly go > in a completely different direction than you expect. Remember, > half the population are of below average intelligence, and there > is a reason why the word "demagogue" is in our vocabulary. > > -PV > >
Re: Caordic change and Greens?
> > ++ a steady state economy in a steady state population - even the > requirement for a reduced population for Ontario is mentioned - and > Wackerneigle's requisit extra planets; > ++ a radical change in the control of the Central Bank, and the way debt and > interest is handled. Some of their policies come from William Krem, a > respected economist; > ++ a shifting tax from personal income to resource usage; > ++ a guaranteed annual wage; > ++ the placing a limit on maximum income; > ++ the reduce/eliminate government subsidies on energy; > ++ the elimination of nuclear energy; > ++ policies which enhance co-op housing; > ++ change voting system to proportional representation; > ++ prohibitions against industrial corporate exploitation of undeveloped > countries. > So what way such a system, based still on a capitalist market's profits, would tick over? Eva > So what have we here, pie in the sky? or a real but fledgling political > option in Canada? I've decided on the latter, partly because, a few years > ago I decided to never again vote for any of the pro-growth political > parties - I'd consider it, like, immoral, something like supporting the > Third Reich, but far more destructive in the big picture long term. > > I suspect many of GPOntario progressive policies could use fine tuning from > groups of elders in a variety of interconnected specialty areas (energy > policy for one). Nevertheless, last weekend, I agreed to be named as a > contact/coordinator the local riding in my part of Toronto. > > I have no idea how strong are the linkage between the Greens in various > countries, states or provinces, but hope to find out. > If all Green political groups were all as progressive as the Ontario Greens > now seem to be, and since they have global presence now, with a little help > from very many places, perhaps they could grow into a challenging force > leading to stage one of a social contract shift which gives due respect for > Gaia, in the human/Gaia relationship. This could give Joe public a viable > option, where we could, "Fight the bastards" as Victor Milne says. > > solidarity in Gaia > Don Chisholm > > > Don Chisholm > 416 484 6225fax 484 0841 > email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > The Gaia Preservation Coalition (GPC) >http://www.envirolink.org/orgs/gaia-pc >personal page: http://home.ican.net/~donchism/dchome.html > > "There is an almost gravitational pull toward putting out of mind unpleasant > facts. And our collective ability to face painful facts is no greater than > our personal one. We tune out, we turn away, we avoid. Finally we forget, > and forget we have forgotten. A lacuna hides the harsh truth." - > psychologist Daniel Goleman > \/ > >
World Bank Listserv
From: Maryellen Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: (fwd) New listserv on Social Capital--World Bank ** Please excuse the crossposting ** NEW LISTSERV ON SOCIAL CAPITAL The World Bank's Social Capital Thematic Group is launching Let's Talk -- an email based discussion group dedicated to social capital and development. Our hope is that many of the unanswered questions and puzzles surrounding social capital will be raised in this discussion group, which includes members from the World Bank staff and beyond. [More details below on how to sign up.] Lastly, I am please to announce that the management of the Social Capital Thematic Group has recently expanded. Gloria Davis, Director of the Social Development Department, and Michael Woolcock, Social Scientist with the Development Research Group, have joined me as co-chairs. For the next few months, Michael will be facilitating Let's Talk, the email discussion, as needed, along with Lindon Robison, Professor of Agricultural Economics at Michigan State University. Should you have any comments or questions about the social capital electronic discussion, newsletter or website, please contact Veronica Nyhan at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or (202) 473 7940. Email Discussion Kick-off Questions: There is a growing recognition that social capital has bothbenefits and costs. What are the policy implications of this? Howcan governments, NGOs, firms, development agencies, and communities themselves act to mitigate the costs and enhance the benefits? What concrete examples do we have of policies and/or programs around the world that have facilitated an increase in participation andeffective governance in poor communities? Do the best initiatives always emerge `bottom-up', or is there also a useful role for `top-down' agents? Various indicators have been proposed to measure social capital. Which ones do you find most persuasive? Please share your thoughts on any of the above questions! We hope this will be a lively and useful forum in which to share ideas and resources on the topic of social capital. We look forward to hearing from you! Deepa Narayan Principal Social Development Specialist Poverty Reduction and Economic Management Network The World Bank 1818 H. St. NW Washington, DC 20433 Other Discussion Details If you are currently a member of the Bank's Social Capital Thematic Group or the Michigan State Social Capital Initiative, you have already been signed up and will receive an introduction to the electronic discussion group in your email. As a member of the discussion, you will receive emails no more than twice a week. To subscribe or unsubscribe to the social capital email discussion go to: http://www.worldbank.org/poverty/scapital/list If you have friends and colleagues who may be interested in joining the electronic discussion, please forward this email to them. To view the World Bank's Social Capital Website, go to: http://www.worldbank.org/poverty/scapital ***
