Re: Digest for g3-5...@googlegroups.com - 2 Messages in 1 Topic

[frrob]

Michael:

I think you might have misunderstood me. My 9600 is also the Mac edition, 
with DVI and ADC monitor connectors. I was not speaking of the *external* 
monitor connector, I was speaking of the *internal* connection for ADC on 
the card, and next to the AGP slot in the motherboard. In a MDD G4 and a G5 
they are not physically in the same position - in the G4 the connector on 
the card hangs out "orphaned", and does not plug into the ADC slot. So I 
was looking for a workaround for this. 

Thanks, 

Rob J.. 


On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:13:08 AM UTC-5, skyki...@verizon.net 
wrote:
>
> My Radeon 9600 is the Mac edition, and the monitor connectors pose no 
> problem. My monitor is a ViewSonic 930m connected via the DVI connector. No 
> problems with Safari, either.
>
> This is why I always look for genuine Mac components and have avoided 
> flashed PC cards.
>
> Michael McMurtrey
> Carrollton, TX
>
> On Dec 19, 2012, at 5:09 AM, g3-5...@googlegroups.com  wrote:
>
>   Today's Topic Summary
>
> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/topics
>
>- Follow-up: ADC - AGP video card issues for MDD and 
> G5<#DCFF471C-2588-438F-90DA-7FC1067CD2A5@verizon.net_group_thread_0>[2 
> Updates] 
>
>   Follow-up: ADC - AGP video card issues for MDD and 
> G5<http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/t/f6e50ddfa1a61d32>
>
>frrob > Dec 18 10:35AM -0800  
>
>Hello again:
> 
>You'll recall my travails last week with the Radeon 9800 Pro that I 
>couldn't get to work properly/reliably in my 1.25 gHz DP MDD. I 
>finally 
>gave up on it, and reverted to the stock 9000. 
> 
>But I purchased a 9600 XT on eBay, which I received yesterday. The 
>machine 
>wouldn't power on with the card until I taped pins 3 & 11, which 
>didn't 
>surprise me. But I taped the pins and the machine started right up, 
>and the 
>card works fine, with a couple of caveats, which I'll get to in a 
>moment.
> 
>However, much to my chagrin, I discovered that the 9600 XT, and 
>presumably 
>other AGP/ADC video cards meant originally for the G5, does not have 
>its 
>ADC connector in the same place as the 9000, or other G4 AGP/ADC 
>cards. The 
>ADC connector for the 9600 is further back on the card than that of 
>the 
>9000. Color me stupid, but, never having poked around inside a G5, I 
>did 
>not know that the G5 and G4 had different physical locations for the 
>ADC 
>connector. I figured ADC was ADC. D'oh!
> 
>So, though the card works, I've really gained nothing by getting the 
>9600. 
>I wanted an AGP/ADC card into which I could just plug my Apple 23 inch 
>ADC 
>display. I can use my DVI - ADC adapter with the card, but what I 
>wanted 
>was a straight ADC connection. 
> 
>So, first question: my subsequent research indicates that the only 
>AGP/ADC 
>card that offers Core Image hardware acceleration, and will physically 
>work 
>with the ADC connector of the MDD, is the Radeon 9700, which, 
>apparently, 
>had a version that was designed for the MDD. Is this correct, or are 
>there 
>others I'm not aware of?
> 
>Furthermore, there is one issue with the 9600 when I use it with the 
>DVI-ADC adapter and my 23 inch cinema display. For some reason, and 
>this 
>*only* happens with the DVI-ADC adapter and the cinema display, when I 
>load 
>pages in Safari that have Flash content, Safari either hangs and 
>becomes 
>unresponsive, or quits altogether. I then get a dialog that says 
>"Safari 
>has quit unexpectedly. This may have been caused by the Flash 10.x 
>plug-in." This only happens with the 9600 - DVI - ADC - 23 inch cinema 
>combination. Any ideas what is going on here? I am guessing, but 
>perhaps 
>for some reason the Core Image hardware acceleration of the 9600 
>(which the 
>9000 doesn't have) doesn't play well with Flash and ADC? I can't 
>imagine 
>why, but there it is. 
> 
>Finally, my second question, which may be moot, but: has anyone ever 
>tried 
>to somehow adapt the ADC connector of one of these G5 ADC cards to the 
>ADC 
>connector of an MDD? It seems to me that it could be done and could 
>work. 
>The ADC connector only has two leads, which supply power for the 
>display, 
>correct? It seems to me that you might be able to come up with some 
>kind of 
>franken-connector or jumper that would let you

Follow-up: ADC - AGP video card issues for MDD and G5

[frrob]

Hello again:

You'll recall my travails last week with the Radeon 9800 Pro that I 
couldn't get to work properly/reliably in my 1.25 gHz DP MDD. I finally 
gave up on it, and reverted to the stock 9000. 

But I purchased a 9600 XT on eBay, which I received yesterday. The machine 
wouldn't power on with the card until I taped pins 3 & 11, which didn't 
surprise me. But I taped the pins and the machine started right up, and the 
card works fine, with a couple of caveats, which I'll get to in a moment.

However, much to my chagrin, I discovered that the 9600 XT, and presumably 
other AGP/ADC video cards meant originally for the G5, does not have its 
ADC connector in the same place as the 9000, or other G4 AGP/ADC cards. The 
ADC connector for the 9600 is further back on the card than that of the 
9000. Color me stupid, but, never having poked around inside a G5, I did 
not know that the G5 and G4 had different physical locations for the ADC 
connector. I figured ADC was ADC. D'oh!

So, though the card works, I've really gained nothing by getting the 9600. 
I wanted an AGP/ADC card into which I could just plug my Apple 23 inch ADC 
display. I can use my DVI - ADC adapter with the card, but what I wanted 
was a straight ADC connection. 

So, first question: my subsequent research indicates that the only AGP/ADC 
card that offers Core Image hardware acceleration, and will physically work 
with the ADC connector of the MDD, is the Radeon 9700, which, apparently, 
had a version that was designed for the MDD. Is this correct, or are there 
others I'm not aware of?

Furthermore, there is one issue with the 9600 when I use it with the 
DVI-ADC adapter and my 23 inch cinema display. For some reason, and this 
*only* happens with the DVI-ADC adapter and the cinema display, when I load 
pages in Safari that have Flash content, Safari either hangs and becomes 
unresponsive, or quits altogether. I then get a dialog that says "Safari 
has quit unexpectedly. This may have been caused by the Flash 10.x 
plug-in." This only happens with the 9600 - DVI - ADC - 23 inch cinema 
combination. Any ideas what is going on here? I am guessing, but perhaps 
for some reason the Core Image hardware acceleration of the 9600 (which the 
9000 doesn't have) doesn't play well with Flash and ADC? I can't imagine 
why, but there it is. 

Finally, my second question, which may be moot, but: has anyone ever tried 
to somehow adapt the ADC connector of one of these G5 ADC cards to the ADC 
connector of an MDD? It seems to me that it could be done and could work. 
The ADC connector only has two leads, which supply power for the display, 
correct? It seems to me that you might be able to come up with some kind of 
franken-connector or jumper that would let you go straight ADC. Anyone know 
anything out there? 

Thanks, 

Rob J. 

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Re: Throwing in the Towel

[frrob]

Michael:

> A later version of the 9800 worked only of G5s (or so I've been told) and 
I'll bet that is the one you have.

That would be my luck...

Well, we'll see what happens with the 9600 when I get it. 


Thanks, 

Rob J. 


On Friday, December 14, 2012 9:10:16 AM UTC-5, skyki...@verizon.net wrote:
>
> On Dec 14, 2012, at 5:49 AM, Richard Gerome wrote:
>
>
>I will hang on to the card and see if it works if I ever get a G5.
>
> There is a version of the 9800 that works on a G4, but they are expensive 
> and hard to find; I know because I have been looking for one myself without 
> success. The one card I did find (on ebay) had a problem (hot, ozone smell 
> and only 128 MB available of the 256 MB alleged) and was returned to the 
> seller. That's why I finally settled on a 9600.
>
> A later version of the 9800 worked only of G5s (or so I've been told) and 
> I'll bet that is the one you have.
>
> Michael McMurtrey
> Carrollton, TX
>
>
>
>

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Re: Throwing in the Towel

[frrob]

Dave:

Thanks for the info.

For some reason my posts are still going into moderation ( I have written 
to Dan about it), so I don't know when this will actually appear...

If you could put me in touch with your expert friend, I would be very 
grateful. I would like to get that 9800 to work, but I am at the end of my 
technical knowledge, and really wouldn't know what to do next, nor how to 
tell if there is, in fact, something wrong with the card, or something I am 
doing wrong. 

You can e-mail me at frrobATearthlinkDOTnet.

Thanks, 

Rob J. 



On Friday, December 14, 2012 12:35:46 PM UTC-5, AmigaDave wrote:
>
>  Sorry I have not replied to this topic until now, but I am recovering 
> from back surgery, and not really in the mood for getting into discussions 
> about anything.
>  
> I have a good friend who is a sort of expert on re-flashing PC video cards 
> for the G4 PowerMac MDD and other models as well.  He has re-flashed my 
> Radeon 8500 w/128mb VRAM (which is faster than the 9000) for my own G4 
> PowerMac MDD.  He has been running a Radeon 9800XT in his own G4 PowerMac 
> MDD for over a year with no problems, and from my discussions with him, I 
> will soon be upgrading my Radeon 8500 to a PC re-flashed 9800Pro, which I 
> am buying from him.  In all of my discussions with my friend about video 
> cards for our G4 PowerMac MDD, he has never once mentioned any problems 
> with running any model of the Radeon 9800 in his own G4 PowerMac MDD (other 
> than the heat they produce).  So, I doubt that there is only one model of 
> the Radeon 9800 which works in the G4 PowerMac MDD, as he has tested dozens 
> of these Radeon video cards in his own MDD and has sold or given them away 
> to developers that are still working on PPC software and operating systems.
>  
> I know that none of this helps the original poster who is having problems 
> with his 9800, but I just wanted to let everyone else know that it can, and 
> has been done, successfully many times.
>  
>  
>
> - Original Message - 
> *From:* Michael McMurtrey 
> *To:* g3-5...@googlegroups.com  
> *Sent:* Friday, December 14, 2012 6:10 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Throwing in the Towel
>
>  On Dec 14, 2012, at 5:49 AM, Richard Gerome wrote:
>  
>
>I will hang on to the card and see if it works if I ever get a G5.
>
> There is a version of the 9800 that works on a G4, but they are expensive 
> and hard to find; I know because I have been looking for one myself without 
> success. The one card I did find (on ebay) had a problem (hot, ozone smell 
> and only 128 MB available of the 256 MB alleged) and was returned to the 
> seller. That's why I finally settled on a 9600. 
>
> A later version of the 9800 worked only of G5s (or so I've been told) and 
> I'll bet that is the one you have.
>
>  Michael McMurtrey
> Carrollton, TX
>
>

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Throwing in the towel (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

[frrob]

Hello again!

Well, I have given up on the 9800. I spent several hours again yesterday 
trying unsuccessfully to get the MDD to boot "normally". 

I finally removed *every* hard drive except the boot drive (OWC 115 GB 
SSD), and every PCI card. No joy. 

I replaced the PRAM battery - that didn't help either. 

I even remove the tape from pins 3 & 11. No help there either.

In fact, I could only get the machine to boot without the flashing molex 
warning once. Out of some 20 attempts to start the machine, on all but one 
attempt, regardless of what I did, I got the flashing molex warning. 

I tested continuity on all the molex splitter leads, and all were OK. 

So, I'm guessing that there may be a defect in the card. Perhaps a cracked 
trace, or something. 

I will hang on to the card and see if it works if I ever get a G5. But for 
now I am back to the 9000. I've purchased a 9600 XT on eBay. Perhaps I will 
have better luck with that. 

Thanks again for all your suggestions. 

Rob J. 



On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:16:52 AM UTC-5, Alex Sciortino wrote:
>
> I may be wrong, but my old 9600 would work with a G4. The 9600 is from a 
> G5. The card is 8x but the Mac is 4x.

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9600 Pro or XT as alternative to 9800 (was Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior)

[frrob]

Greetings all!

On a related, but slightly different note:

What about using an ADC/DVI version of the 9600 (either the Pro or XT) 
instead of the 9800? I have seen a number of them for sale on eBay. Since 
they are ADC, they might play better with the MDD. Furthermore, they don't 
appear to have the Molex secondary power connector, so that would be 
another problem avoided. Do they not have the molex because they draw extra 
power through the ADC plug on the motherboard, or do they just draw less 
power?

 I imagine I'd have to tape pins 3 & 11, but that's not a big deal. 

With the 9600 XT or Pro, I'd still have hardware acceleration of Core Image 
and Quartz Extreme. 

Any potential pitfalls, or other thoughts on that?


Thanks, 

Rob J.
 

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Jeff:

>From photos of several of these PSUs (both 360 and 400 watt versions) for 
sale on eBay, it seems pretty clear to me that these figures are output 
wattage. From my rough calculations based on input figures on the same 
PSUs, it would seem that the input wattage is between 700-800 watts. 


Rob J.



On Tuesday, December 11, 2012 11:41:16 AM UTC-5, tr...@prismnet.com wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, December 10, 2012 10:14:08 PM UTC-6, Valter Viglietti wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there 
>> are 
>> > 400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? 
>> Is 
>> > the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? 
>> AFAIK, quite the contrary: according to MacTracker, first generation MDDs 
>> had the 400W PS, subsequent versions (FW 800 and 2003) had the 360W. 
>> Perhaps the design became more power-efficient; I don't know if the two 
>> PS 
>> are interchangeable. 
>>
>
> Are we sure these are different versions and not just another example of 
> what happened with, IIRC, the 9500/9600?  In that older case, some times 
> the input wattage of the power supply was listed.  Other times the output 
> wattage of the power supply was listed.   Of course, the input wattage was 
> considerable higher back then.   This sent a number of devoted modders 
> scurrying around hunting for the "higher power" supply, even though both 
> numbers referred to exactly the same supply; the two numbers were simply 
> describing different qualities of the same object.
>
> I notice that 360 is exactly 10% less than 400.90% efficiency is 
> perhaps a bit high, but about in the ball park of what one would expect 
> from a good efficient supply, so I find it believable, although not 
> certain, that 400W is the input wattage of the MDD supplies and 360W is the 
> output wattage of the MDD supplies.
>
> Jeff Walther
>  
>

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Valter:

I would call an AGP card that draws 75 watts a "power hog" all right.

I had, by my own rough calculation, thought that the card might draw 45-50 
watts. But I could see that 75 might well overtax the power supply.

Speaking of which, my MDD has the 360 watt PS. I have seen that there are 
400 watt units also for the MDD. Any idea why the different versions? Is 
the 400 watt unit just a later version, or what? 

If the PSU is really the culprit, I would replace my 360 watt PSU with the 
400 watt version before I repaired the 360 watt one. 

Finally, I did reset the PMU, twice. I forgot to mention that. No effect on 
the problem. 

I'll let the group know what happens. 

Thanks, 

Rob J.



On Sunday, December 9, 2012 10:17:34 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote:
>
> Il giorno 10/12/12 03:41, frrob ha scritto: 
>
> > The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have 
> > suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and 
> the 
> > USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I 
> > don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty 
> > much need USB 2.0. 
> I agree; this suggestion was not meant to make you run an "handicapped" 
> Mac 
> ;-) but to make absolutely sure the problem was about not enough power. 
> Once you knew it was that (or not), you could think about something else. 
>
> From what you reported, anyway, I don't think the problem is lack of 
> power. 
> But IMO is worth making the above check, just to be sure. 
>
> > The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an 
> Apple 
> > ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard 
> > drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power 
> > from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power 
> be 
> > some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800? 
> Yes and no. A 23" monitor should draw around 40W; the 9800 obviously needs 
> more. 
>
> > The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog 
> From what I gathered on the Net, it should draw around 75W under normal 
> conditions (maybe more when running 3D intensive applications). 
>
> > It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor 
> connected 
> > to it. 
> Maybe something got "stuck" in the power mangement unit. 
> Did you try to reset the PMU? ( Power Management Unit) 
> See Apple's page: 
> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1939 
>
> (knock on wood, it might have something to do with the 9800 issue as well; 
> worth a try) 
>
>
>

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Bob:

I'll check that heat sink and screws when I get back. 

Thanks, 

Rob J.


On Monday, December 10, 2012 1:58:59 AM UTC-5, grizzledgiant wrote:
>
> Sorry, Rob, I didn't read down all the way before replying. 
> About the full fan speed.  Mine did that when I first got it (used).   
> The heat sink screws were loose when I removed it.  I put new Arctic   
> Silver 5 paste on it and made sure the screws were tight.  It quieted   
> down. 
>
> Bob 
>

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Flags:

I'll check the swap list for that driver. However, according to the ATI 
website, Leopard has the most up-to-date driver for the 9800 in it already. 

Thanks,

Rob J.



On Monday, December 10, 2012 7:35:30 AM UTC-5, flags wrote:
>
> On 12/7/12 15:34 PM, frrob wrote: 
> > Hello! 
> > 
> > I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 
> > 9800 Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). 
> > My main motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run 
>
> snip=== 
>
> Did you get a driver disk w/ it? If not there is on Lem swap. 
>

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Hello again everyone!

Again, thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. 

Sooner or later, when you keep banging your head against a wall, you reach 
a point of saying "f*%k it. It's not worth the trouble." I am about at that 
point. I have spent almost all my free time for the last 2 days farting 
around with this thing. 

As you might gather from the above, I have not succeeded in solving the 
problem. 

I plugged the molex splitter into the optical drive power connector, and 
disconnected one of the 4 hard drives.  This did not solve the problem. 
However, using the optical bay power lead made for a more efficient cable 
run to the 9800 card, so I will keep that if I get the card working 
properly. I then disconnected another hard drive and removed the unused PCI 
card. Still no joy. 

Thinking the problem might be driver/software related, I installed the 
August '95 ATI ROM update. No effect on the problem. 

Then I taped the infamous 3 & 11 pins. I double and triple checked with a 
magnifying glass to make sure those pins were completely covered, and no 
other pins were. This too did not solve the problem. 

So, I am down to the Leopard boot drive (an OWC 115 GB SSD), and my SCSI 
raid set (2 cheetah LVD drives). I assume that the SSD draws less power 
than a standard drive? I am down to 2 pci cards: a USB 2.0 card, and the 
ATTO UL3D that drives the RAID set. 

The only thing to try, as Valter, Mac User #330250, and Wayne have 
suggested, is to remove the last things - the SCSI RAID, the UL3D, and the 
USB 2.0 card, and see what happens. The thing is, even if that worked, I 
don't *want* to run the machine that way. I want my RAID, and you pretty 
much need USB 2.0. 

The fact is, I ran all of the above with the stock 9000 card and an Apple 
ADC 23 inch monitor, without a hitch. For a while I even ran a 5th hard 
drive in the machine with no problems. Now that monitor draws its power 
from the machine. Wouldn't the absence of the ADC monitor drawing power be 
some sort of compensation for the power needs of the 9800? 

The 9800 must be some kind of monster power hog if it can't get enough 
power to run when I'm only running 2 PCI cards and 3 hard drives (one of 
them an SSD). 

And another thing, another "con" to the whole project: When I do not have 
an ADC monitor plugged in to the MDD, the fans do not spin down to a slower 
speed after startup, and cycle according to use. They run full blast 
constantly, giving the well-known "MDD wind tunnel effect". This happens 
even when I connect the stock 9000 card to a non-ADC monitor using the DVI 
port. This is very annoying to me, and I'm not sure if I could put up with 
that indefinitely. 

It seems as though the MDD really *likes* having an ADC monitor connected 
to it. 

So, I am back to the stock 9000 card for now. I have to be away for a 
couple of days, so will have to come back to this when I return. 

Thanks again,

Rob J.



On Sunday, December 9, 2012 6:13:13 PM UTC-5, Valter Viglietti wrote:
>
> Il giorno 08/12/12 19:42, frrob ha scritto: 
>
> > As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one 
> > empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not. 
> IMHO, four drives, three PCI cards (your MDD should have 4 slots) AND the 
> Radeon 9800... Equals too much power for the standard 360W (or 400W) power 
> supply. 
> No surprise it could be "chocking"... 
>
> As someone else said, try with just one HD connected (and the 9800 
> connected 
> to the optical drive power line). 
> If it works... You know where the problem is. :-) 
>
>
>

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Thanks everyone, for all the feedback and suggestions. 

I will try taking the power off the optical drive connectors next, and see 
what happens. I have the molex for the 9800 running off the hard drive 
connector for the drive cage under the optical bay, where I have two SCSI 
drives (RAID). 

As far as power goes in general, I *do* have four drives. But I have one 
empty PCI slot. So I'm not sure if I'm maxing out power or not. 

Regarding heat as the issue, I'm not so sure. According to iStat, the 
processor temps hover around 49 degrees C. I've been checking it from time 
to time, sometimes after doing more processor-intensive tasks, and I've 
never seen a temp over 50 C. It seems to me that that's an acceptable temp 
for the processor. 

Thanks!

Rob J. 



On Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:18:20 PM UTC-5, Wayne Stewart wrote:
>
> If it is a failing or marginal power supply you could try removing other 
> cards and running the hard drives off an external power supply. Then if it 
> does reboot when hot, you'll know it's your power supply. If it still 
> doesn't then maybe there's something wrong with the video card.
>
>

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Re: MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Kris:

My understanding is that the "tape on pins 3 &11 issue" applies to PC 
versions of the 9800 card flashed over to Mac, not to *original* Mac 
edition cards. This is an original Mac edition card. 

Cards that have the pin issue will cause the machine to not power up *at all
* if the pins are not covered. My machine will power up with the card 
installed. The problem is on restarts, or a power up after a shutdown 
(unless you unplug and replug the machine). 

Furthermore, the flashing red molex graphic indicates that the card is 
somehow not getting power, or it thinks it isn't. 

I may, if I can't get anywhere in another way, try the pin thing. But I 
don't think that's the problem. 

Thanks, 

Rob J. 



On Friday, December 7, 2012 9:50:10 PM UTC-5, Kris Tilford wrote:
>
> Isn't this the tape pins 3 & 11 issue?: 
>  
>

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MDD G4 odd start/restart behavior - new video card

[frrob]

Hello!

I have a MDD G4, 1.25 GHz DP, 10.5.8. Last night I installed a Radeon 9800 
Pro 128M AGP (DVI) card, replacing the stock Radeon 9000 68M (ADC). My main 
motivation for doing this was to have a 128M card, so as to run a larger 
monitor at full resolution. I didn't really look for the 9800 Pro, but I 
found it at a good price, and the info I found indicated that it would work 
in the MDD. One salient point if you're not familiar with the 9800 pro - 
apparently the AGP bus doesn't provide enough power for it, so it requires 
a secondary power connection from a molex connector, using a splitter from 
one of the hard drive power connectors.

In fact, the card does work, more or less. I get great display at 1920 x 
1080. But there are two problems. If I shut down the machine and then try 
to power it back on, one of two things happens: (1) it won't power on at 
all. I press the power button, and literally nothing happens. (2) It will 
power up and give me the boot chime, but then show in the center of the 
screen a small picture/icon of the Radeon card, with a little ATI logo in 
the corner, and in the upper right corner of the graphic a flashing red 
molex connector and its wires, signifying that it's not getting power from 
the molex. Of course, it was working and getting said power before I shut 
it down, so something changed on shutdown, it would seem. 

The "solution" I have found to this problem is (if it powered on and gave 
me the flashing molex icon) is to manually power it down with the power 
button, and (if it didn't power up at all just do this) unplug the machine 
for 30 seconds to a minute, then plug it back in. Then it will start up 
normally. 

Furthermore, if I try to restart, I invariably get the flashing molex 
graphic. I then have to manually shut down, unplug, replug, and power on. 

The machine seems to sleep OK. I can put it to sleep and wake it, seemingly 
regardless of how long it has been asleep, with no problem. 

When this first happened, I thought perhaps a cable or something was 
physically pressing the motherboard reset button (it is pretty cramped in 
there). But no, the button is clear. 

I never had these problems with the stock Radeon 9000 ADC card.

So, what is going on? Something seems to be messing with the card's ability 
to get power. Is something interfering somehow with the machine's power 
management? 

I'd like to use the 9800, but if I can't properly start up and restart, 
that's a pretty big PITA. Is the 9800 just too much card for the MDD? 

Is there some solution to this problem that will allow me to use the 9800? 
Or should I stick with the 9000 or another ADC card? 

Thanks!

Rob J.

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how to install (downgrade) SCSI driver extension?

[frrob]

Greetings!

I have an MDD dual 1.25 gHz running Leopard (10.5.8). I am using an ATTO 
UL3D SCSI card to run a 2 drive internal SCSI RAID. Hoping to get better 
performance, I upgraded the ATTO driver to the most recent one provided by 
ATTO for PPC and Leopard (or below), which is their version 3.21. 
Everything still works, but the new driver did not enhance performance (I'm 
getting about 125 MB/sec. on uncached 4K block reads). Not only that, but 
the new driver will not allow the SCSI drives to spin down and sleep. 

My boot drive is an OWC 115 GB SSD.

The old driver (version 2.04f1) works just fine with this setup, and WILL 
allow the drives to sleep. I have verified this by booting from another 
drive that has Leopard with the old driver. 

So, the question, how do I get the new driver out of the system and 
re-install the "old" driver. I don't have an installer "package" for the 
old driver, as I do for the new one. I just have a copy of the old driver. 
I didn't want to start mucking around in the extensions folder without 
knowing what I was doing. 

The driver extension is in the folder SSD 115/System/Library/Extensions .


Thanks, 

Rob Johansen

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Re: cloned drive doesn't show up as bootable

[frrob]

Kris:

Bingo! "Apple Partition Format" vs. "Master Boot Record" is one of those 
things I read about ages ago and then forgot about. 
Sure enough, that what I found in Disk Utility. 

Thanks!

Rob Johansen


On Tuesday, August 14, 2012 6:08:09 PM UTC-4, Kris Tilford wrote:
>
> On Aug 14, 2012, at 4:52 PM, frrob wrote: 
>
> > So what gives? Why won't the cloned volume of the WD 320 (Partition   
> > C) show up as bootable? 
>
> You probably forgot the reformat the HD as "Apple Partition Format" in   
> the Disk Utility>Partition Tab>Options section? PPC Macs only boot   
> from Apple Partition Format HDs, and it's likely your new HD was   
> Master Boot Record. 
>
>

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cloned drive doesn't show up as bootable

[frrob]

Hello!

I have an odd (at least to me) problem. I have installed a couple of new 
hard drives in my MDD G4 (1.25 GHz, OS 10.5.8). They all mount just fine. 
My usual boot drive is an OWC 115 GB SSD. I have an old drive in the 
machine, a Seagate 200 GB, with 2 partitions (call them volumes A and B) 
Volume B has a different collection of stuff on it, also with OS 10.5.8. 
This volume also boots just fine. I cloned Volume B onto a partition of a 
third internal drive, a WD 320 GB, call that Volume C. My idea in doing 
this was to copy the stuff onto the larger drive and retire the 200 GB. I 
used SuperDuper to do the cloning, which is supposed to give you a bootable 
clone. The problem: The cloned volume of B on volume C will not "show up" 
as bootable either in the Startup Disk pref pane or in the Startup Manager 
when I press Option at startup. I have run this 3 times now, and once I did 
so using the SSD as startup drive, and once using volume B (the drive to be 
cloned) as startup drive. Super Duper reports a successful copy each time, 
and in each case the cloned volume mounts just fine. 

So what gives? Why won't the cloned volume of the WD 320 (Partition C) show 
up as bootable? I'm reluctant to retire the 200 GB drive without being sure 
I have a good (bootable) copy. 

Thanks!

Rob Johansen

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G4 MDD DVD drive compatibility; mounting HDDs in optical cage

[frrob]

Greetings! A couple of other questions:

I have two DVD drives mounted in my G4 MDD. One of them, a Pioneer DVD-RW 
burner, is kaput. 

I would like to replace it with a new combo DVD-RW burner. Some such drives 
listed on eBay are described as pulls from either G5s or Mac Pros, or as 
new drives intended for those machines. Are there any compatibility issues 
with such drives that would preclude their use in my G4? 

Also, I have 3 146 GB U160 SCSI drives I would like to set up as a RAID, 
internally. I have the SCSI PCI card I need. What I'd like to know is, 
would it be possible to mount two of those drives in one of the slots for 
the optical drives? I don't need a DVD-RW burner and and DVD-ROM. One of 
the slots in the HDD cage under the optical cage is free, so it seems to me 
that the issues are (a) getting the drives physically mounted, and (b) 
getting the cabling to work. Any thoughts? Would the SCSI drives in the 
optical cage get adequate cooling? 

Thanks again for your insight and suggestions!

Rob Johansen

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G4 MDD internet woes, again (sleep related?)

[frrob]

Greetings! 

You were all a big help to me a couple of weeks ago, so here goes again!

I had a repeat of the problem when my G4 MDD wouldn't connect to the 
internet:
 
exactly the same problem - machine would get a valid IP address and "see" 
the other macs on the network (at first several minutes after restart, 
later right away), but wouldn't connect to the internet. 

This happened after I woke the MDD from sleep - exactly as had happened 
before.

Same outcome: after allowing the machine to do it's thing for a couple of 
hours (during which there was frequent disk activity though the machine was 
idle), and restarting, the internet was back, without me having 
done/changed anything. 

So, this seems to be a sleep-related issue. I have read a few things around 
the web, including on this list, mentioning that the G4s were known to have 
problems with sleeping. Are there any solutions out there, aside from not 
using sleep? My old B&W G3 also had a sleep problem - I could never get it 
to wake up properly from sleep, and always ended up having to restart it. 
So I stopped using sleep altogether. I'd like to be able to use sleep mode 
on my MDD. 

The OS seems to eventually fix the problem, but it also takes 2-3 hours. I 
would like to speed up or jump-start the process. Bruce Johnson mentioned 
that the problem might lie in a messed-up "system network configuration 
preferences" file. Where is this file located? Should I keep a known good 
copy somewhere and replace it when things go wonky, or just delete the file 
and restart? I seem to recall a similar solution to a corrupted TCP/IP 
prefs file under OS 7-9. 

Also, one of the main reasons I like to be able to use sleep is that if I 
don't allow the machine to sleep, but only allow the screensaver and 
monitor sleep to occur, when the machine goes into monitor sleep, the fans 
race full blast, very loudly (I believe this was known as the "windtunnel" 
problem). Any solution to this not involving re-wiring my power supply? Any 
work-arounds? 

Thanks for all your time and suggestions!

Rob Johansen

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Re: G4 MDD won't connect to internet

[frrob]

Bruce, Mac User, and Ken:

Thanks for all your help and suggestions!

After posting my last reply, I shut down the MDD and took a nap for a 
couple of hours (I was up till 4:00 AM). 

When I started it up, it took a bit longer than usual, and there was a lot 
of disk activity. So I let it go, and even after it had, to all 
appearances, completed start-up, there was still a lot of disk activity, 
really churning. It was clear that the machine was doing something, 
although I had not opened any applications. 

So I let it do its thing, which took about 10 minutes. When the machine had 
stopped al the disk churning, I checked the "network" panel in System 
Preferences, which reported a valid IP address.

I fired up Safari, and, halleluia, it loaded my home page. Browsers are 
surfing the web just fine now. I had done/changed NOTHING. It seems that OS 
X fixed the problem all on its own. I just wish it hadn't cost me a few 
hours of sleep in the meantime. 

Any ideas on what the OS might have done, or what the problem may have been?

Thanks again!

Rob Johansen



On Saturday, June 16, 2012 11:48:01 AM UTC-4, joh...@pharmacy.arizona.edu 
wrote:
>
>
> On Jun 16, 2012, at 6:32 AM, frrob wrote: 
>
> > Alex and Ken: 
> > 
> > I did check all the physical connections, and they were fine. And again, 
> as I mentioned in my original post, the machine reports being connected to 
> ethernet, and gets a valid IP address, and "sees" the other Mac on the 
> network. 
> > 
>
>
> Check your configuration. You may need to delete your system network 
> configuration preferences file. 
>
> If you can get an IP address, and see local systems, then the issue is 
> either your system cannot find the gateway address to access IP addresses 
> beyond the LAN or the network mask is wrong. Since both of those are sent 
> by the DHCP server along with your IP address, either your DHCP server is 
> messed up  (the router) or the network configuration is wrong. 
>
> Check the settings against a working mac. 
>
> Also do the other, working systems function after a reboot? or if you 
> select 'Renew LEase' in the TCP/IP settings in the Network control panel? 
> DHCP is only important at the time an address is handed out; typical home 
> routers give out addresse setting s with very long lease times, so the mac 
> doesn't actually ask for a new address that often. 
>
> -- 
> Bruce Johnson 
>
> "Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD 
>
>

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Re: G4 MDD won't connect to internet

[frrob]

Alex and Ken:

I did check all the physical connections, and they were fine. And again, as 
I mentioned in my original post, the machine reports being connected to 
ethernet, and gets a valid IP address, and "sees" the other Mac on the 
network. 

Also, the appropriate link and activity lights come on on the switch when 
the Mac is started. 

The mac is getting the valid IP from the router.

If it is a network config problem, then why do the other machines (B&W G3, 
windows boxen) connected to the same router via the same switch have no 
problem connecting? And how would I fix this? 


Thanks, 

Rob Johansen



On Saturday, June 16, 2012 9:15:15 AM UTC-4, Mac User #330250 wrote:
>
> --  Original message  -- 
> Subject: Re: G4 MDD won't connect to internet 
> Date:Saturday, 16. June 2012 
> From:frrob  
> To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com 
> > So, the machine connects to the network, gets a valid IP address, sees 
> the 
> > other Mac on the network, but won't connect to the internet. 
> > 
> > Any other ideas? 
>
> Maybe it’s rather a network configuration problem. Where does the Mac get 
> the 
> valid IP from? A router? You may have to set it up so the IP from the Mac 
> is 
> “allowed” to connect to the internet – it may be simply the router that 
> restricts it to connect… 
>
> Just one posibility. 
>
> Cheers, 
> Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250 
>

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Re: G4 MDD won't connect to internet

[frrob]

Alex:

No, no lightning, or any other catastrophe. 

Besides, as I mentioned in my original post, the machine is reporting a 
connection to the ethernet, and is "seeing" the network at least so far as 
to see the B&W G3 under the "sharing" heading. 

Also, now there is no "delay" in seeing the ethernet connection and 
reporting a valid IP address.

So, the machine connects to the network, gets a valid IP address, sees the 
other Mac on the network, but won't connect to the internet. 

Any other ideas? 


Rob Johansen


On Saturday, June 16, 2012 8:22:38 AM UTC-4, Alex Sciortino wrote:
>
> Was there any lightning? If there was the onboard Ethernet may be shot. 
>
>
>  So, any ideas about what is wrong with it, and what I can do to fix it? 
>
>
>

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G4 MDD won't connect to internet

[frrob]

Greetings! I hope someone can help!

I have a G4 MDD 1.25 GHz DP running 10.5.8. Earlier tonight, it stopped 
connecting to the internet for no reason I could discern. I had used it on 
the internet (both with Safari and Firefox) with no issues all day. The 
machine is connected via ethernet, through a switch to a wired/wireless 
router. I had put it to sleep, and reawakened it maybe 15-20 minutes later, 
and when I did so, found that it would not load web pages, etc. Safari 
reported "you are not connected to the internet". The "network" panel under 
System Preferences reported that the machine was connected to ethernet, but 
had a "self-assigned" IP address. Network Diagnostics told me I was not 
connected to the internet, and that it could not repair the connection. I 
tried restarting the machine, but no joy. I tried re-booting both the 
switch and the router, with no joy there either. 

The thing is, that 2 other machines (a B&W G3, a windows desktop) are 
networked via the same switch to the same router, and a windows laptop 
wirelessly to the same router, and throughout all of this they have had no 
issues connecting to the internet. I tried swapping out ethernet cables, 
and connecting to different ports of the switch, but the results were the 
same - other machines connect to the internet fine, the MDD will not.

Thinking that something may have been corrupted, I tried re-starting the 
MDD with a firewire drive containing a clone I had made yesterday (when 
there were no issues) of the startup drive. Same result as before - no 
internet connection. 

I have noticed since then, that, when I restart the machine, for the first 
3-5 minutes the System Preferences "network" panel will report a 
"self-assigned" IP address. Then, after a few minutes, it will report a 
"real" IP address and the address of the router. Furthermore, the B&W G3 
will show up under the "Shared" heading on the left hand side of an open 
hard drive window. But if I open a web browser, it spins forever and 
reports (Firefox) that it could not find the server, or (Safari) that I am 
not connected to the intenet. 

It seems clear to me that the problem is not the router or switch, because 
other machines connected to the same router and/or switch have no problem 
connecting to the internet. Furthermore, it doesn't seem to be an 
electronic problem in the MDD, because it does report that it is connected 
to the ethernet, and eventually gets a valid IP address, and it "sees" the 
other mac on the network. 

So, any ideas about what is wrong with it, and what I can do to fix it? 

I will be very grateful for your wisdom and suggestions!

Thanks, 

Fr. Rob Johansen

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Zip 250 on G4 MDD

[frrob]

I recently acquired a DP 1.25 gHz G4 MDD. It is running OS 10.5.8. It
has 2 optical drives, a DVD burner and a DVD-CDRW drive. I am thinking
of replacing the DVD-CDRW with a ZIP 250 drive. I have 2 questions:

1. Will this work in Leopard?

2. I have read that this machine was offered with a ZIP option. Are
there any sort of rails/adapters for installing this in the second
optical drive slot? Also, is there any sort of bezel for such an
installation?

Thanks,

Fr. Rob Johansen

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