Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
On May 23, 7:07 pm, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: Well, after doing some considering... I think I will try to put the Yikes board in the BW. I read around and ran across some poor soul that couldn't get his BW working after 2 Motherboard swaps and finally stuck a G3 in a Yikes board and put it in his Smurf case. The ONLY difference between a Yikes motherboard and a Smurf should be the deletion of the adb ports IIRC. This G3 hasn't been right since I got it used a few years back and it would be nice to see it run a full day without a lock up (os9) or a panic (OSX). Have you tried the RAM? I've had problems with my SDRAM macs that cleared up once I swapped RAM sticks. A bad RAM chip can cause all sorts of irriatating headaches. Try putting them in a PC and running memtest on them to see if they are ok. And even then, some Macs are just really finnicky about RAM. I'd start with that before I did too much else. Also, what version of the motherboard is it? The Rev 1's have a bad IDE controller on the 33Mhz bus. So, I would check the chip to see if it has a sticker on it with 402. It will be near the PCI slot that's opposite the RAM. You can gain stability(but lose some speed) with the other controller. It's only a 16.7Mhz one tho. And just maybe the graphics will run a bit quicker as well. What card are you using? And what version of Mac OS? 10.2 and older didn't make as much use of the graphics card for the desktop as 10.3 and newer. Thanks everyone for their help!!! No Problem. Why we're here. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
I have gone through the memory and replaced all of it. I have replaced the power supply when it went out. All that is left in the case is the G3 Zif, the Motherboard and the graphics card (reported as a ATY,Rage128y) So its down to one of those three.. the panics give nothing consistent and offer very little information. and the os9 lockups just freezes the box. I have everything removed from it but the graphics card and memory. I have seen graphics cards go bad and it usually give some sort of artifact on the screen prior to it locking up. (I know this isn't ALWAYS the case... but I feel pretty confident that the card is working okay.) I will probably find something to replace it with soon anyway. The G4 has the improved FPU and Altivec so hopefully I will get a slight bump in the exchange. Currently the system is running Tiger with the appropriate updates.. it has been happy with 9.2.2 (as well as Tiger).. it didn't do well with panther. On May 25, 10:38 am, Larry Stotler larrystot...@gmail.com wrote: On May 23, 7:07 pm, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: Well, after doing some considering... I think I will try to put the Yikes board in the BW. I read around and ran across some poor soul that couldn't get his BW working after 2 Motherboard swaps and finally stuck a G3 in a Yikes board and put it in his Smurf case. The ONLY difference between a Yikes motherboard and a Smurf should be the deletion of the adb ports IIRC. This G3 hasn't been right since I got it used a few years back and it would be nice to see it run a full day without a lock up (os9) or a panic (OSX). Have you tried the RAM? I've had problems with my SDRAM macs that cleared up once I swapped RAM sticks. A bad RAM chip can cause all sorts of irriatating headaches. Try putting them in a PC and running memtest on them to see if they are ok. And even then, some Macs are just really finnicky about RAM. I'd start with that before I did too much else. Also, what version of the motherboard is it? The Rev 1's have a bad IDE controller on the 33Mhz bus. So, I would check the chip to see if it has a sticker on it with 402. It will be near the PCI slot that's opposite the RAM. You can gain stability(but lose some speed) with the other controller. It's only a 16.7Mhz one tho. And just maybe the graphics will run a bit quicker as well. What card are you using? And what version of Mac OS? 10.2 and older didn't make as much use of the graphics card for the desktop as 10.3 and newer. Thanks everyone for their help!!! No Problem. Why we're here. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is athttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette guide is athttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
I noticed the Yikes didn't have a ADB Bus so I would have to replace my keyboard and mouse (which I really like). But I can learn to live without Basically, any USB KB and Mouse will work with a G4 Mac. I am currently using (please forgive me) a Dell KB and MS wireless mouse with my DA. No issues at all. Len I've heard mention of a USB to adb adapter too, search the list archives? I think it was called an iMate? That would allow you to keep using the old keyboard/mouse on anything with USB! Mike -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
On 22/05/10 7:24 PM, Gus gusr...@comcast.net wrote: I was directed to a web site that pointed out that you had to hobble the bus speed on the G3 in order to use the Yikes G4 processor in it. As someone noted, hobbling the bus speed was only for those processors that were 700+ MHz. I believe just installing these higher speed CPU's hobbled the bus speed for you. If you're installing a G4 or G3 ZIF that was greater than 400 MHz, but 600MHz and under, then what you needed to do was update the firmware of the BW in order for it to properly use the 400+ MHz CPU's. ...Skip the whole upgrade process and invest in a low cost G4 computer all together. It would be much cheaper to go with a low cost G4 and one that used AGP graphics (more and cheaper options for you). You may also want to look into the G5 market (dual core) as they're getting cheaper too. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
Belkin definitely made an ADB--USB adapter (I have one around here somewhere) and I'm pretty sure of at least another brand.) John On 5/23/10 3:33 AM, Mike Linnett mike.dogho...@googlemail.com wrote: I've heard mention of a USB to adb adapter too, search the list archives? I think it was called an iMate? That would allow you to keep using the old keyboard/mouse on anything with USB! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
WrongAgain Len lgers...@gmail.com wrote: a web site that pointed out that you had to hobble the bus speed on the G3 in order to use the Yikes G4 processor in it. Please cite the site. Both are 100MHz machines. The only upgrades to the BW that hobble the bus speed are the very fast (800-1GHz) G3s, iirc. Once you update the firmware to accept a G4, it should almost be a drop in. the very fast G3's ZIF upgrades were developed precisely BECAUSE they didn't require cutting the bus speed to 66MHz. the problem is the G4 Altivec Engine, which is not compatible with the BW mobo because the mobo was developed before the invention of the Altivec enhanced CPUs. here's the URL you asked for: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/accelerators/PowerLogix/PowerForce-ZIF/ ah...clem -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
On May 22, 7:16 pm, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On May 22, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Gus wrote: I was directed to a web site that pointed out that you had to hobble the bus speed on the G3 in order to use the Yikes G4 processor in it. Please cite the site. Both are 100MHz machines. The only upgrades to the BW that hobble the bus speed are the very fast (800-1GHz) G3s, iirc. Once you update the firmware to accept a G4, it should almost be a drop in. It was the PowerLogix site someone directed me to. http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/accelerators/PowerLogix/PowerForce-ZIF/ In light of this it would make more sense to either: Put the entire Yikes MotherBoard in the G3. I don't think it is a drop in. They do look exceptionally similar. I am just not sure if the back plastic will pose a problem. Thing is the mb in the g3 is twitchy anyway and needs replacement or the whole thing needs to be thrown in the trash. I am not a big utube user to begin with and mostly just do text processing and cd burning with it. I know toast likes the g4 and I have noticed many tiger apps that are requiring a g4 or better to work. At present I can get a yikes MB and processor fairly inexpensively. But I don't want to have this thing half torn apart only to realize the MB back side cant accommodate the plastic. Or Skip the whole upgrade process and invest in a low cost G4 computer all together. There are many G4s available for $120 and under on eBay, and better deals can be had on the swap list. I just saw a 1.25GHz Mirror Drive Door on ebay for $120 shipped. I noticed the Yikes didn't have a ADB Bus so I would have to replace my keyboard and mouse (which I really like). But I can learn to live without Basically, any USB KB and Mouse will work with a G4 Mac. I am currently using (please forgive me) a Dell KB and MS wireless mouse with my DA. No issues at all. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is athttp://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtmland our netiquette guide is athttp://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited. Date:Sonntag 23 Mai 2010N From:Gus gusr...@comcast.net To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Thing is the mb in the g3 is twitchy anyway and needs replacement or the whole thing needs to be thrown in the trash. If it works it works. I'm not a native speaker (my native tongue is German), but why do you think you may have to throw it in the trash if you can still start it up? Or is it a “sometimes it starts up, sometimes not” situation? I am not a big utube user to begin with and mostly just do text processing and cd burning with it. Like me. I use my G3 BW with Mac OS X 10.4.11 for text processing (OpenOffice.org 3.2 and Microsoft Office:mac 2004) and internet browsing (Camino, Firefox, Safari, in that order; no YouTube!). BTW, Microsoft Office:mac is quite speedy for running on an G3 BW 350 MHz, OpenOffice.org on the other hand… I think it is 1 minute until I see it has been started, and it isn't very responsive when working with it too. But what can I say? I need the compatibility of ODF documents. I don't do CD burning though. I know toast likes the g4 and I have noticed many tiger apps that are requiring a g4 or better to work. I hardly believe that. I read somewhere that for the Intel Macs to be able to continue running PowerPC applications you need Rosetta installed. This Rosetta emulates PowerPC _without_ AltiVec and without G5 optimization. So it basically gives you a G4 without AltiVec – which is a G3! So anything that will run on Rosetta on an Intel Mac (on Leopard or on Snow Leopard) will therefore also run on a Power Mac G3 – and I'd say this is about 99% of all G4 applications. Also, normally every program that is design to run on Tiger is also able to run on a G3 BW, since this Mac is officially supported for Tiger and thus a program officially supporting Tiger must also support the G3 BW. For example: the Microsoft Open XML File Format Converter 1.1.3 (released 10th of November 2009) officially required Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, but I tested it on Tiger – on my G3 BW (!) – and it worked! Maybe what you experience is that some programs do some checking and don't like the few MHz of your processor. But they should refuse to start with an error message, that they require a faster processor to run. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
I was directed to a web site that pointed out that you had to hobble the bus speed on the G3 in order to use the Yikes G4 processor in it. In light of this it would make more sense to either: Put the entire Yikes MotherBoard in the G3. Or Skip the whole upgrade process and invest in a low cost G4 computer all together. Are there any drawbacks to using a yikes board in a BW G3 Case? I would think the power supply would be compatible. I noticed the Yikes didn't have a ADB Bus so I would have to replace my keyboard and mouse (which I really like). But I can learn to live without. Thanks for your time on this. Gus. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
On May 22, 2010, at 6:24 PM, Gus wrote: Skip the whole upgrade process and invest in a low cost G4 computer I think this hit the nail-on-the-head. The BW and Yikes are hindered by PCI graphics. I believe the era of PCI Graphics Macs has effectively past unless you happen to already own a heavily upgraded system. The cost of obtaining upgrade CPU, RAM, and PCI video card are simply too large to justify the expenditure when compared to the availability of low cost AGP Macs. Any AGP graphics G4 will kill the BW and Yikes if you're using latest possible OS X and any kind of CPU/ Graphics intensive software (for example, Adobe Flash Player is a CPU hog/thorn-in-the-side of all PPC Macs). I'd recommend any AGP G4 or even a used Mini as being best bang for the buck in low-end Macintosh computing. Hackintosh is also a low cost option, although it's MUCH more complicated and not something for the technically challenged. With PPC prices falling, you may even be able to include G5's in the best-bang-for-the-buck category if you find a good deal? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: BW G3 - G4 Upgrade Revisited.
On May 22, 2010, at 7:24 PM, Gus wrote: I was directed to a web site that pointed out that you had to hobble the bus speed on the G3 in order to use the Yikes G4 processor in it. Please cite the site. Both are 100MHz machines. The only upgrades to the BW that hobble the bus speed are the very fast (800-1GHz) G3s, iirc. Once you update the firmware to accept a G4, it should almost be a drop in. In light of this it would make more sense to either: Put the entire Yikes MotherBoard in the G3. I don't think it is a drop in. Or Skip the whole upgrade process and invest in a low cost G4 computer all together. There are many G4s available for $120 and under on eBay, and better deals can be had on the swap list. I just saw a 1.25GHz Mirror Drive Door on ebay for $120 shipped. I noticed the Yikes didn't have a ADB Bus so I would have to replace my keyboard and mouse (which I really like). But I can learn to live without Basically, any USB KB and Mouse will work with a G4 Mac. I am currently using (please forgive me) a Dell KB and MS wireless mouse with my DA. No issues at all. Len -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
