Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
I'm only the most basic kind of hobbyist programmer right now. I have the logic, but I don't fully understand the creation tools. However, I have started and stopped enough projects to understand what Tom is saying about motivation. Jeremy/Aprone faced the same difficulty with Swamp. However, I also understand something else. A team keeps people motivated by offering support, encouragement, and the occasional kick in the butt. A team of people is generally listed in the credits for every indie game out there and every mainstream game. Our developers seem to occasionally work on teams, but the majority, the ones as part of this topic, the vast majority, work alone. alone, there is just that one person doing everything. Not only is the project their baby alone, their precious work, it is their responsibility if they lose motivation. If they get burnt out, then a lot of people get disappointed. The fact of the matter is that there's a long history of piracy in our community to overcome. There are three choices: make a game with stringent product protection, something that requires a by-Skype or by-phone activation, keep going with medium protection and hope people will not pirate it too much, or go with low product protection but make the kind of smash-hit game that makes people want to pay, the kind of game that people can really get righteous about. I think options 1 and 3 are good. However option 3 has the advantage of guaranteeing us something fantastic. No matter the option, anything done works better with a team. Yes, a team means conflict, disagreement, but it also means something truly memorable. It means that we can have something truly amazing. On 12/18/14, Jacob Kruger ja...@blindza.co.za wrote: Thomas, will do. Main things are to rework actual interaction, interface, some of the sort of strategy logic, and to add things like sound effects etc. Actually quite amusing thinking of how it all seemed to me at the time when while OOP was pretty much standard from my side, implementing it properly in python was another thing...smile Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA ...Roger Wilco wants to welcome you, to the space janitor's closet... - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 12:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Hi Jacob, Definitely keep us posted on that project. I remember when you released the original version of your simple RPG engine, and it was a cool program if a bit simplistic for a first realize. I'll be looking forward to any updates you may have in the future regarding that particular project. Cheers! On 12/17/14, Jacob Kruger ja...@blindza.co.za wrote: Thomas/Dark, One of my holiday time plans this year is to rework my mapData, simple role-playing engine, which I slapped together using python, since while I originally used it as one of my forms of self-introduction to python quite a while ago, I have moved a lot farther on - I am nowadays actually working on an almost fully professional basis as a python programmer - among a couple of other platforms/languages. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA ...Roger Wilco wants to welcome you, to the space janitor's closet... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. -- Signed: Dakotah Rickard --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Such a community project might be a good idea. And maybe something to bring the focus back to computer users. While I don't have anything personal against mobile devices, we have or will get some rather complex mobile (IOS) games in the near future. But the sad thing about this that not even Mac users won't get anything through this, since IOS and Mac are obviously two separate things. But if Mac has more onboard accessibility features than Windows has, I wonder if mainstream Mac games could be made accessible like some mainstream IOS titles might be playable by blind or visually impaired users. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
I know that some people made games for fun or because they wanted to earn some money. How much money they actually got, I obviously don't know. And since many of the games we talked about, e.g. Justin's or Liam's titles are a bit older, no one knows how much money could be made from them in the year 2014. But in case of Justin at least, it had been years since he last released a new title. Obviously I can't know why he didn't do more or why he did not close his doors earlier if he wanted to stop. But I also can't know if his next title, if it ever came, would have been a success or not among paying gamers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
That's actually sad in so many levels. First is of course the problems with the high unemployment rates you mentioned. But what I'd like to know is if there is an actual estimation on how many blind or visually impaired people are actually in the USA and how many of them are interested in games and not how many of them could afford them. On the other hand, ESP Soft and later Draconis made more than one paid title. Either the people behind said games had lots of money or they earned lots of it through their sales. If their games were not a success on the small market, we wouldn't have seen more games from them and I think that Monkey Business was their most complex game so far. It seems that however small the market might be, that you still can make money through it, if not, all paid games wouldn't be here anymore. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
That's what I thought, too. I mean, mainstream games often use some kind of game engines where you still might need knowledge in whatever script or other language the tools work with. However such engines come with lots of extra tools for level design or for creating your data files once you made your data folder. But most audio game developers probably had to do this by hand inventing data file formats, level layout and then actually code them line by line. This is one reason why I find it a bit sad that there is no public information about the GMA Engine available, even if you would find out that it is not the right tool for you. I also would like to know what happened to the game engine in development by USA Games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
But that problem is not limited to the audio games sector. I mean people who demand things for free or who don't care and develop cracks and such stuff and distribute them through the internet. Cracked software or games can be found everywhere. Obviously it has a bigger impact on a small market. But the problem is the same wherever you look. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
don't forget about bgt. On 12/18/2014 6:52 AM, Michael Gauler wrote: That's what I thought, too. I mean, mainstream games often use some kind of game engines where you still might need knowledge in whatever script or other language the tools work with. However such engines come with lots of extra tools for level design or for creating your data files once you made your data folder. But most audio game developers probably had to do this by hand inventing data file formats, level layout and then actually code them line by line. This is one reason why I find it a bit sad that there is no public information about the GMA Engine available, even if you would find out that it is not the right tool for you. I also would like to know what happened to the game engine in development by USA Games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] dos games
Cool, please let me know if anyone can get this to work. Now I wish PCSGames still had their Dos links up. I can try Jim Kitchens Dos games though. On Dec 17, 2014, at 11:21 PM, Josh k joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: hey i found a gem! the flipper screen reader with sbtalker included! here is the link. if anyone gets this working in dosbox please let me know. https://www.sendspace.com/file/qsfgnl --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] dos games
yes, sb-talker was the only software speech for dos that I know of. and flipper was a very good screen reader. that website i found has tons of old dos goodies on it. such as wordperfect 5.1, lotus 123, and more. On 12/18/2014 7:47 AM, Joshua Tubbs wrote: Cool, please let me know if anyone can get this to work. Now I wish PCSGames still had their Dos links up. I can try Jim Kitchens Dos games though. On Dec 17, 2014, at 11:21 PM, Josh k joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: hey i found a gem! the flipper screen reader with sbtalker included! here is the link. if anyone gets this working in dosbox please let me know. https://www.sendspace.com/file/qsfgnl --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Michael, Hard to say now if any of Justin's new titles would have been a success, but I can say from the sound of it the Void and Castle Quest might have been decent successes if either one of them had seen the light of day. They were both sound ideas, and markedly different games from anything else Justin created before. That said, even so the fact of the matter is neither of them would have produced a developer with a living wage. Even if you consider 1,000 sales at $20 each that would only be $20,000 for one product. Factor that out over a year or more of development, take out state and federal taxes, and the developer's take home pay isn't much more than minimum wage. Consider that the average developer for Microsoft or a game designer for a major game studio takes home about $60,000 that little bit made off of audio games is laughably small. That's where the problem lies. You and others want a very complicated game to be created that will take up months and weeks of a developers time. You expect him or her to work for practically nothing while consoling himself or herself with the enjoyment of the work. For some people that is enough, but in the world we are given to live in it really is not. People have to eat, pay the electric bill, purchase computer equipment and software, and the best way to do that is by being compensated for their time and work. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: I know that some people made games for fun or because they wanted to earn some money. How much money they actually got, I obviously don't know. And since many of the games we talked about, e.g. Justin's or Liam's titles are a bit older, no one knows how much money could be made from them in the year 2014. But in case of Justin at least, it had been years since he last released a new title. Obviously I can't know why he didn't do more or why he did not close his doors earlier if he wanted to stop. But I also can't know if his next title, if it ever came, would have been a success or not among paying gamers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Michael, I doubt it. Any time a mainstream game is made accessible it is through a conscious effort on the part of the developer to make it accessible to a screen reader. There aren't many mainstream developers developing games for Mac, and those who do would have to be approached individually about access improvements. The other problem is emulation. One thing that make games for Mac different from Windows is that many are developed using emulation software like Cider which allows Windows games to be ported to Mac without major changes in APIs and code. Problem is since the games are being emulated that increases the problems with accessibility since there isn't anything for the screen reader to lock onto and read. The way VoiceOver works is it checks Mac's accessibility APIs for incoming text etc, and if it doesn't see anything as far as VoiceOver is concerned nothing exists. Since emulators like Cider do not transfer onscreen information through the accessibility pipeline there is nothing for VoiceOver to see. So no. I don't see mainstream games for Mac being made accessible any more than I would expect the average mainstream game for Windows to be made accessible. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Such a community project might be a good idea. And maybe something to bring the focus back to computer users. While I don't have anything personal against mobile devices, we have or will get some rather complex mobile (IOS) games in the near future. But the sad thing about this that not even Mac users won't get anything through this, since IOS and Mac are obviously two separate things. But if Mac has more onboard accessibility features than Windows has, I wonder if mainstream Mac games could be made accessible like some mainstream IOS titles might be playable by blind or visually impaired users. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
Hi Michael, The USA Games engine you speak of, Evolution 3D, is and has been in ongoing development. I'm not sure what more you would like me to say about it other than for the most part the engine is stable, has been used to develop games like Mysteries of the Ancients and Raceway,, and currently has been updated to handle Mac OS and Linux operating systems. It is not, however, publicly available. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: That's what I thought, too. I mean, mainstream games often use some kind of game engines where you still might need knowledge in whatever script or other language the tools work with. However such engines come with lots of extra tools for level design or for creating your data files once you made your data folder. But most audio game developers probably had to do this by hand inventing data file formats, level layout and then actually code them line by line. This is one reason why I find it a bit sad that there is no public information about the GMA Engine available, even if you would find out that it is not the right tool for you. I also would like to know what happened to the game engine in development by USA Games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
Hi Michael, I'm not sure about actual figures on how many blind people there are in the USA that are interested in games since that kind of information often gets excluded from surveys. Plus since a lot of blind computer users in the US often get their computers through government sponsored state agencies many of them are afraid to install games and other recreational software on their PC. I've met my fair share of blind computer users who were specifically told by their counselor that their computer was a tool for work, school, etc and not to install games and other software on it. Since they are afraid of getting in trouble even though they might want games they won't risk it. So one thing we face as game developers is the paradigm that computers are only to be used for work and they can happily be used for both regardless of what some state agency says. As for making money of accessible games the issue isn't that one can not make money off it. Obviously, ESP, Draconis, GMA, BSC Games, and others all made money off of making accessible games for the blind. The issue is one can't making a living wage off of developing games for the blind full time. They have to find some other way to make money to supplement the income from the games, because making and selling accessible games aren't enough in of itself. You mentioned ESP. At the time all the ESP games were originally created they were developed by a man named James North. Unlike most audio game developers James North was sighted and had a regular 9 to 5 job. He wrote games like Alien Outback, Monkey Business, DynaMan, and ESP Pinball in his spare time and made money off of them. While I'm sure James made a few thousand off those games it wasn't enough to quit his daytime job and make games full time. So to get to the point yes a lot of the more successful game developers like ESP had lots of money to start with. Although, they did make some money off of the games the funding for the games didn't all come through sales. Like any other business it took a fair amount of personal startup capital to get going. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: That's actually sad in so many levels. First is of course the problems with the high unemployment rates you mentioned. But what I'd like to know is if there is an actual estimation on how many blind or visually impaired people are actually in the USA and how many of them are interested in games and not how many of them could afford them. On the other hand, ESP Soft and later Draconis made more than one paid title. Either the people behind said games had lots of money or they earned lots of it through their sales. If their games were not a success on the small market, we wouldn't have seen more games from them and I think that Monkey Business was their most complex game so far. It seems that however small the market might be, that you still can make money through it, if not, all paid games wouldn't be here anymore. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
Very true. You'd certainly want to have a primary income to fall back on while you're working on your games. Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:56 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Hi Michael, I'm not sure about actual figures on how many blind people there are in the USA that are interested in games since that kind of information often gets excluded from surveys. Plus since a lot of blind computer users in the US often get their computers through government sponsored state agencies many of them are afraid to install games and other recreational software on their PC. I've met my fair share of blind computer users who were specifically told by their counselor that their computer was a tool for work, school, etc and not to install games and other software on it. Since they are afraid of getting in trouble even though they might want games they won't risk it. So one thing we face as game developers is the paradigm that computers are only to be used for work and they can happily be used for both regardless of what some state agency says. As for making money of accessible games the issue isn't that one can not make money off it. Obviously, ESP, Draconis, GMA, BSC Games, and others all made money off of making accessible games for the blind. The issue is one can't making a living wage off of developing games for the blind full time. They have to find some other way to make money to supplement the income from the games, because making and selling accessible games aren't enough in of itself. You mentioned ESP. At the time all the ESP games were originally created they were developed by a man named James North. Unlike most audio game developers James North was sighted and had a regular 9 to 5 job. He wrote games like Alien Outback, Monkey Business, DynaMan, and ESP Pinball in his spare time and made money off of them. While I'm sure James made a few thousand off those games it wasn't enough to quit his daytime job and make games full time. So to get to the point yes a lot of the more successful game developers like ESP had lots of money to start with. Although, they did make some money off of the games the funding for the games didn't all come through sales. Like any other business it took a fair amount of personal startup capital to get going. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: That's actually sad in so many levels. First is of course the problems with the high unemployment rates you mentioned. But what I'd like to know is if there is an actual estimation on how many blind or visually impaired people are actually in the USA and how many of them are interested in games and not how many of them could afford them. On the other hand, ESP Soft and later Draconis made more than one paid title. Either the people behind said games had lots of money or they earned lots of it through their sales. If their games were not a success on the small market, we wouldn't have seen more games from them and I think that Monkey Business was their most complex game so far. It seems that however small the market might be, that you still can make money through it, if not, all paid games wouldn't be here anymore. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
iNdeed you would need another source of income. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 4:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Very true. You'd certainly want to have a primary income to fall back on while you're working on your games. Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:56 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Hi Michael, I'm not sure about actual figures on how many blind people there are in the USA that are interested in games since that kind of information often gets excluded from surveys. Plus since a lot of blind computer users in the US often get their computers through government sponsored state agencies many of them are afraid to install games and other recreational software on their PC. I've met my fair share of blind computer users who were specifically told by their counselor that their computer was a tool for work, school, etc and not to install games and other software on it. Since they are afraid of getting in trouble even though they might want games they won't risk it. So one thing we face as game developers is the paradigm that computers are only to be used for work and they can happily be used for both regardless of what some state agency says. As for making money of accessible games the issue isn't that one can not make money off it. Obviously, ESP, Draconis, GMA, BSC Games, and others all made money off of making accessible games for the blind. The issue is one can't making a living wage off of developing games for the blind full time. They have to find some other way to make money to supplement the income from the games, because making and selling accessible games aren't enough in of itself. You mentioned ESP. At the time all the ESP games were originally created they were developed by a man named James North. Unlike most audio game developers James North was sighted and had a regular 9 to 5 job. He wrote games like Alien Outback, Monkey Business, DynaMan, and ESP Pinball in his spare time and made money off of them. While I'm sure James made a few thousand off those games it wasn't enough to quit his daytime job and make games full time. So to get to the point yes a lot of the more successful game developers like ESP had lots of money to start with. Although, they did make some money off of the games the funding for the games didn't all come through sales. Like any other business it took a fair amount of personal startup capital to get going. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: That's actually sad in so many levels. First is of course the problems with the high unemployment rates you mentioned. But what I'd like to know is if there is an actual estimation on how many blind or visually impaired people are actually in the USA and how many of them are interested in games and not how many of them could afford them. On the other hand, ESP Soft and later Draconis made more than one paid title. Either the people behind said games had lots of money or they earned lots of it through their sales. If their games were not a success on the small market, we wouldn't have seen more games from them and I think that Monkey Business was their most complex game so far. It seems that however small the market might be, that you still can make money through it, if not, all paid games wouldn't be here anymore. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
that would rock jacob if you could get something like that dusted off. Right now I am still testing with reality gaming, but to be honest I hope to be able to drop that down soon. The current online game is due to go live soon, and that means I can actually take a bit of a back seat if more are active I can focus on other projects in reality gaming and reality software, and other things. Ofcause next year is a big year, personal health, house modifications and family are big parts of it. But there will be time to continue with tests. At 08:59 a.m. 18/12/2014, you wrote: Thomas/Dark, One of my holiday time plans this year is to rework my mapData, simple role-playing engine, which I slapped together using python, since while I originally used it as one of my forms of self-introduction to python quite a while ago, I have moved a lot farther on - I am nowadays actually working on an almost fully professional basis as a python programmer - among a couple of other platforms/languages. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA ...Roger Wilco wants to welcome you, to the space janitor's closet... - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Hi Dark, Possibly. Of course, if the game itself is written in a fairly easy language like Python to begin with there wouldn't be any need for the game to be written in any specific RPG creation tool. Just import the required Python classes and write your adventure. I see no reason why someone couldn't create a version of Eamon in Python. I think one reason Eamon itself was written in Basic was for the fact that it was a common enough language at the time and was easy enough to anyone could learn and use it. It would have been a different story if Eamon had been written in C++ or something like that. Being written in Basic anyone could modify the game code and add adventures. I do feel something like Python could possibly fulfill that requirement today. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
Michael, I would agree with you that even though a market is small, there is at least a chance to make some money. I personally found this out by accident! Swamp had been free for years and I only resorted to paid accounts when I hit the end of my proverbial rope with security issues. I just couldn't waste any more time trying to keep people out who could just find new ways to come back using new free accounts. Giving each account even a very small money requirement makes all of the difference, because they can't really be anonymous anymore. Keeping people out got a whole lot easier, plus people don't find it so much fun to hack when they actually lose their money whenever I kick them out, Haha! I made about $12,000 from Swamp, which is about $10,000 more than I was really expecting, ROFL! So needless to say, I was, and still am very excited about that! So it is true that you can make some pretty good money, but as Thomas said, it is not enough to live off of. I originally built the game just to create something people would enjoy (which is why it was free), but we can't expect that developers will do that. I am fortunate enough to have a job that pays my bills, so I had the luxury of making games purely for the enjoyment of the art. Many here have already said that life gets in the way for developers. I agree with them 100%! This time of year is my busy season and I am really struggling to work on the code I need to be doing. I wanted to have a Swamp update done in early October, and here it is midway through December and I'm still not finished. Even when I'm really into a groove and game code is pouring out of my head like a waterfall, the clock will say I have to go to work. When I am back home I am usually too exhausted to pick up where I left off, and it ends up being a whole day I couldn't spend coding. Then of course there are days when I just don't feel like coding and can't get myself to do anything productive, even if I happen to have the free time to do so. - Aprone From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com Hi Michael, I'm not sure about actual figures on how many blind people there are in the USA that are interested in games since that kind of information often gets excluded from surveys. Plus since a lot of blind computer users in the US often get their computers through government sponsored state agencies many of them are afraid to install games and other recreational software on their PC. I've met my fair share of blind computer users who were specifically told by their counselor that their computer was a tool for work, school, etc and not to install games and other software on it. Since they are afraid of getting in trouble even though they might want games they won't risk it. So one thing we face as game developers is the paradigm that computers are only to be used for work and they can happily be used for both regardless of what some state agency says. As for making money of accessible games the issue isn't that one can not make money off it. Obviously, ESP, Draconis, GMA, BSC Games, and others all made money off of making accessible games for the blind. The issue is one can't making a living wage off of developing games for the blind full time. They have to find some other way to make money to supplement the income from the games, because making and selling accessible games aren't enough in of itself. You mentioned ESP. At the time all the ESP games were originally created they were developed by a man named James North. Unlike most audio game developers James North was sighted and had a regular 9 to 5 job. He wrote games like Alien Outback, Monkey Business, DynaMan, and ESP Pinball in his spare time and made money off of them. While I'm sure James made a few thousand off those games it wasn't enough to quit his daytime job and make games full time. So to get to the point yes a lot of the more successful game developers like ESP had lots of money to start with. Although, they did make some money off of the games the funding for the games didn't all come through sales. Like any other business it took a fair amount of personal startup capital to get going. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
I would also be willing if the game supported paypal to donate 40 bucks towards it. At 03:49 p.m. 17/12/2014, you wrote: I would donate $30 or $40 towards it. I'll have the money in January 2015. On 12/16/2014 5:17 PM, Michael Gauler wrote: That's actually sad. Not that Alter Aeon is a big world of course. But if such things work as an online game shouldn't there be a developer or a group of them who think that it is time to do something like this as an audio game? I mean, if you start today with game development you won't do such a big thing alone. But if you are there in your tenth year as an active member of the audio game developing group, then surely it could be possible. And you can't tell me that such a project would be totally unwanted among the players and the community if it were to be properly made. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
I think you both make points. Would it be nice to have more games to choose from as a blind person? Yes, of course. But Creators of assistive tech including games, do not make a lot of money, due to our numbers (the blind) being so low compared to the sighted community. The sighted want more graphics and realistic visuals, and we blind want clear text or sound effects. So, it's kind of a catch 22 when it comes to mainstream designers creating games the blind can play along sides the sighted. Keith - Original Message - From: Cara Quinn To: Gamers Discussion list Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games wow! How did we get to family values? Do you not think that there were no merchants in the 16th century? People did not get goods and services for free you know, even then. :) As for morality, as a blind individual, you might have found yourself locked away somewhere (or worse) because of people's views of the disabled back then. That's not much morality in my book. Cheers! Cara On Dec 16, 2014, at 8:17 PM, Josh k joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: they develop for the money that's it. they could care less whether disabled folks can play their games. sometimes I wish I had a time machine and could go back to the 1500s or so. maybe we did not have technology but we had our morality and family values. On 12/16/2014 7:06 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: Michael, Again, excellent points. Let me ask you (and the list) a simple question. Why do mainstream developers develop? Cheers! Cara --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 16, 2014, at 3:32 PM, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Dark, The sad thing about all this is that all these new things we are currently getting in the audio game sector are partially old school compared to mainstream games. Seriously, I know of a mainstream game called Uprising 2. You wouldn't be able to play it withouth sighted assistance just to tell that first. What I want to say is the following: This game was a science fiction game where you have to fight in a war against an alien race. You had to go to over 30 planets and your task was to destroy all alien bases on the planet. The player controled a futuristic tank with different weapons. He could build factories to produce other units to call during battles to aid you. These units were computer controlled of course. I have the game CD. During these missions you gained more weapons and technology until you came to the final level. Every planet you had to go to was its own map file. On the game CD (it was small enough for one CD-Rom) you had the game, the full user manual as well as other documents. The game itself had three extra levels which were a really big ingame tutorial. But that was not all the CD contained. There was a level editor plus its own manual plus another file which contained the technical specifications for one of the four main files you need for level design. And there was one last document explaining the scripting language which you needed íf you wanted to create story events or define on what terms you won or lost a certain mission. This game let the user edit some but not all its files. It did not require any form of hardware based registrations, nor was the CD copy protected with the kind of copy protection which prevents legal use of the product because it is buggy. This title was released before the year 2000 and ran on Windows 98 systems without problems. This is just one example of what some games of the Windows 95-98 era could do. Or remember Doom and Quake. You could make your own levels and mods for them. And if you like RPGs you know what Final Fantasy is. That series goes back before PCs were common products. But I also knew of a Japanese Play Station game which was originally listed in the audiogames.net database. But up to now we had little in audio RPG titles and the two we have while impressive currently don't have official addons/expansions, nor do they support user created game content as far as I know. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
well the fact is with croud funding either through sommething like kickstarter or even paypal its possible if the project is good enough. Ofcause you may have to buy it to after that but even so. At 02:42 p.m. 17/12/2014, you wrote: And let's not forget the blind i want everything for free and why should i pay for it attitude which is shameful, but about. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity Cara, Once again well said. I think you just said everything I meant to say in a simple and concise post. Cheers! On 12/16/14, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Michael, Why on Earth would someone just decide that they want to spend ten years of their life slaving over something which they will not only see no income from, is incredibly time-consuming / intensive, consist of pretty much out-of-date technology when it is finished, require massive maintenance / updates ever-after, and will most likely foster criticism and flaming from the community which it is meant for when it is finally done? Now I'm not saying that there is no one for whom this type of project may be appealing or be a passion, but this is probably not the sort of thing that many people would choose to voluntarily take on. Just my thoughts... Excellent topic BTW... Cheers! Cara --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] braillemon
Hello friends the game braillemon is not running in my win 8 laptop. it is the script error can someone assist me? Thanks Ishan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Shaun, Crowd funding can be a good way to initially fund a project throughout the early stages of development as far as buying music, sounds, and possibly for APIs and tools to create the project. However, if it is to be a very complex project the initial income may not be enough to sustain the project for months and years. That is one reason why something open source might be the way to go for the kind of roll playing game that people are asking for. If the game is made open source in theory anyone could work on it, update it, and create extra adventures and missions. That way it isn't just one guy developing the game, and even if that developer drops out of development due to burnout, life getting in the way, etc the source is still there open to the public for someone else to carry the torch further. Cheers! On 12/16/14, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well the fact is with croud funding either through sommething like kickstarter or even paypal its possible if the project is good enough. Ofcause you may have to buy it to after that but even so. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Shaun, Well, before anyone begins donating money I think we should nail down some details of what it is to be developed. I have read a lot of messages which are more complaints than anything else that there isn't enough complex audio games, that people want a roll playing game, but no specific details as such. Perhaps I or someone else should start a thread on trying to figure out exactly what it is the community wants and see if we can draw up an outline rather than just approach this without any direction or forethought. Cheers! On 12/16/14, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I would also be willing if the game supported paypal to donate 40 bucks towards it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
link for flipper and dos games. https://www.sendspace.com/file/qsfgnl On 12/18/2014 11:18 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Michael, I doubt it. Any time a mainstream game is made accessible it is through a conscious effort on the part of the developer to make it accessible to a screen reader. There aren't many mainstream developers developing games for Mac, and those who do would have to be approached individually about access improvements. The other problem is emulation. One thing that make games for Mac different from Windows is that many are developed using emulation software like Cider which allows Windows games to be ported to Mac without major changes in APIs and code. Problem is since the games are being emulated that increases the problems with accessibility since there isn't anything for the screen reader to lock onto and read. The way VoiceOver works is it checks Mac's accessibility APIs for incoming text etc, and if it doesn't see anything as far as VoiceOver is concerned nothing exists. Since emulators like Cider do not transfer onscreen information through the accessibility pipeline there is nothing for VoiceOver to see. So no. I don't see mainstream games for Mac being made accessible any more than I would expect the average mainstream game for Windows to be made accessible. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Such a community project might be a good idea. And maybe something to bring the focus back to computer users. While I don't have anything personal against mobile devices, we have or will get some rather complex mobile (IOS) games in the near future. But the sad thing about this that not even Mac users won't get anything through this, since IOS and Mac are obviously two separate things. But if Mac has more onboard accessibility features than Windows has, I wonder if mainstream Mac games could be made accessible like some mainstream IOS titles might be playable by blind or visually impaired users. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
i'd love a game based on the book, watership down, a good book and complex so the game would be one hell of a project i reckon. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 7:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity Hi Shaun, Well, before anyone begins donating money I think we should nail down some details of what it is to be developed. I have read a lot of messages which are more complaints than anything else that there isn't enough complex audio games, that people want a roll playing game, but no specific details as such. Perhaps I or someone else should start a thread on trying to figure out exactly what it is the community wants and see if we can draw up an outline rather than just approach this without any direction or forethought. Cheers! On 12/16/14, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: I would also be willing if the game supported paypal to donate 40 bucks towards it. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi. There is another viewpoint that nobody has mentioned yet, one that I'm pretty sure is one of the bigger problems. The people who are really going nuts and creating amazing games with lots of mechanics, the ones who actually could take the community beyond what it knows, are creating a nice game or 3, then leaving the audio gaming community. Why is this? My guess would be because they have the skills they need to get a real paying job. I like what I'm working on, but if someone saw that and said oh wow I like your skillset, you should think about joining our company. Since you know this much it is obvious you can learn code. We'll train you to use our own language and you can write something we need done. If something like that happened to me, I would be hard pressed not to just drop the game I'm working on. Because while it is going to be a paid game, I don't look for it to make anywhere near enough money to pay for my time. I'm doing it for fun, the ability to play the game myself, the attention in the community, and what money I can get out of it. But we are often jobless, have the idea to make games and sell them for a little cash to hopefully help mom and dad pay our bills, or what have you, and then because we are actually achieving these things, we then just naturally have some of what it takes to actually have a job, if I'm making any sense? I didn't do nearly as good a job explaining as I meant. Basically the very fact that we might have a programmer in our community who can make great audiogames pretty much by definition means we have someone who won't be staying, at least not full time by any means. Cheers, Sent with Thunderbird 24.6.0 portable On 12/16/2014 7:22 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Michael, Well, as far as Justin goes there is no great mystery why he did what he did. Justin made it pretty clear from the beginning he was interested in making money off of his games, and rather than releasing them as freeware he chose to sell his key generator in order to make what money he could off the games before closing his doors. He didn't have to do things that way, but he did it anyway. In any case there is a few reasons why Liam, Justin, Dan, etc didn't just write simple board and card games. One reason is they all had interests in more arcade type games, and chose to write something a bit more complex than just another card or board game. Another is Dan and Justin wrote most of there games while they were in college, receiving professional training , where the majority of audio game developers are self-taught. Finally, I imagine they had the time to devote to developing the games when they wrote their games. This is not meant to be taken as a criticism, but it seems from your posts that you are grossly underestimating the time and effort that goes into creating an audio game. You appear to be under the false assumption that people have the time, money, skills, and resources to create anything they want to. Such isn't the case. Real life can and does get in the way, and if you think it is so easy I think you should give it a try. Get yourself a book on programming and write yourself a few complex games. I think once you do a lot of your questions will go away from experience. Cheers! On 12/16/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Thomas, I know that a beginner won't do highly complex games from the start. That is true. However the ones like Justin or Liam or Dan had some rather complex games compared to simple board or card games. Look at the unlockables in Judgment Day for example. But after that you heard not much from Liam in terms of big projects for whatever reasons. The last commercial project was Super Egg Hunt Plus. But if he supposedly still sells it, then there is at least in theory no reason to drop Super Liam or Judgment day. I know that real life can get in the way and that this might be the reason why we had some people leave permanently. But this did for example not explain why Justin did not make his originally paid games free if he was not going to give further key replacements to previous customers. While his final special offer was good for me personally, since I didn't buy his games up to this point, for people who already owned one or two games it was not an ideal option. And if he generally said he wanted to drop all support for these titles, then he could simply have released his unlock code generator like Dan did with his legal unlock patches and no one would have screamed foul play or something similar. And of course you are right when you say people born blind might not know the difference between Entombed or Warcraft. However there are such things as anime, movies, TV shows or fantasy books. And such large fictional universes nmight not be used in audio game development due to copyright issues, creating a similar setting than described in such media might be legally possible. You atempted the same in basing
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hello Josh, What is the copyright status on these files? It is not permissible to just upload and share any old program you want to unless you either own the copyright on it or know that the copyright has lapsed. So it would be important to get an exact status on the copyright of Flipper and the Dos games you uploaded here. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Josh k joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: link for flipper and dos games. https://www.sendspace.com/file/qsfgnl --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
Speaking from experience on this one. For me to spend 8 hours a day at work programming, to come home and do family things and then spend the evenings coding a game can be hard going. It also has to be a game that has really grabbed my interest as was the case with dotris and Park Boss. A number of times I've sat down with an idea for a couple of nights and then lost interest. This is why I'd probably not join a collaborative project, I'd be worried that fitting development around the day job and family would be letting the team down or putting too much presure on myself. Just some more thoughts. Nick On 18 Dec 2014, at 19:48, Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net wrote: iNdeed you would need another source of income. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 4:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Very true. You'd certainly want to have a primary income to fall back on while you're working on your games. Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:56 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Hi Michael, I'm not sure about actual figures on how many blind people there are in the USA that are interested in games since that kind of information often gets excluded from surveys. Plus since a lot of blind computer users in the US often get their computers through government sponsored state agencies many of them are afraid to install games and other recreational software on their PC. I've met my fair share of blind computer users who were specifically told by their counselor that their computer was a tool for work, school, etc and not to install games and other software on it. Since they are afraid of getting in trouble even though they might want games they won't risk it. So one thing we face as game developers is the paradigm that computers are only to be used for work and they can happily be used for both regardless of what some state agency says. As for making money of accessible games the issue isn't that one can not make money off it. Obviously, ESP, Draconis, GMA, BSC Games, and others all made money off of making accessible games for the blind. The issue is one can't making a living wage off of developing games for the blind full time. They have to find some other way to make money to supplement the income from the games, because making and selling accessible games aren't enough in of itself. You mentioned ESP. At the time all the ESP games were originally created they were developed by a man named James North. Unlike most audio game developers James North was sighted and had a regular 9 to 5 job. He wrote games like Alien Outback, Monkey Business, DynaMan, and ESP Pinball in his spare time and made money off of them. While I'm sure James made a few thousand off those games it wasn't enough to quit his daytime job and make games full time. So to get to the point yes a lot of the more successful game developers like ESP had lots of money to start with. Although, they did make some money off of the games the funding for the games didn't all come through sales. Like any other business it took a fair amount of personal startup capital to get going. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: That's actually sad in so many levels. First is of course the problems with the high unemployment rates you mentioned. But what I'd like to know is if there is an actual estimation on how many blind or visually impaired people are actually in the USA and how many of them are interested in games and not how many of them could afford them. On the other hand, ESP Soft and later Draconis made more than one paid title. Either the people behind said games had lots of money or they earned lots of it through their sales. If their games were not a success on the small market, we wouldn't have seen more games from them and I think that Monkey Business was their most complex game so far. It seems that however small the market might be, that you still can make money through it, if not, all paid games wouldn't be here anymore. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want
Re: [Audyssey] About pc games
Nick and Jeremy, Well said! I really love my work with LookTel. After a particularly annoying bug search / destroy mission though, pretty much the last thing I want to do is spend the evening coding some more! lol! As it is, I cannot even give enough time to Draconis either. So even though I may have some game ideas that I may personally really like, it really takes that special set of circumstances for me to really want to work with that for a while. I wish there were many more hours in the day and that sleep was an option and not a necessity! lol! Cheers! Cara --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Dec 18, 2014, at 4:17 PM, Nick Adamson n...@ndadamson.com wrote: Speaking from experience on this one. For me to spend 8 hours a day at work programming, to come home and do family things and then spend the evenings coding a game can be hard going. It also has to be a game that has really grabbed my interest as was the case with dotris and Park Boss. A number of times I've sat down with an idea for a couple of nights and then lost interest. This is why I'd probably not join a collaborative project, I'd be worried that fitting development around the day job and family would be letting the team down or putting too much presure on myself. Just some more thoughts. Nick On 18 Dec 2014, at 19:48, Lisa Hayes lhay...@internode.on.net wrote: iNdeed you would need another source of income. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 4:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Very true. You'd certainly want to have a primary income to fall back on while you're working on your games. Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 9:56 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] About pc games Hi Michael, I'm not sure about actual figures on how many blind people there are in the USA that are interested in games since that kind of information often gets excluded from surveys. Plus since a lot of blind computer users in the US often get their computers through government sponsored state agencies many of them are afraid to install games and other recreational software on their PC. I've met my fair share of blind computer users who were specifically told by their counselor that their computer was a tool for work, school, etc and not to install games and other software on it. Since they are afraid of getting in trouble even though they might want games they won't risk it. So one thing we face as game developers is the paradigm that computers are only to be used for work and they can happily be used for both regardless of what some state agency says. As for making money of accessible games the issue isn't that one can not make money off it. Obviously, ESP, Draconis, GMA, BSC Games, and others all made money off of making accessible games for the blind. The issue is one can't making a living wage off of developing games for the blind full time. They have to find some other way to make money to supplement the income from the games, because making and selling accessible games aren't enough in of itself. You mentioned ESP. At the time all the ESP games were originally created they were developed by a man named James North. Unlike most audio game developers James North was sighted and had a regular 9 to 5 job. He wrote games like Alien Outback, Monkey Business, DynaMan, and ESP Pinball in his spare time and made money off of them. While I'm sure James made a few thousand off those games it wasn't enough to quit his daytime job and make games full time. So to get to the point yes a lot of the more successful game developers like ESP had lots of money to start with. Although, they did make some money off of the games the funding for the games didn't all come through sales. Like any other business it took a fair amount of personal startup capital to get going. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Michael Gauler michael.gau...@gmx.de wrote: That's actually sad in so many levels. First is of course the problems with the high unemployment rates you mentioned. But what I'd like to know is if there is an actual estimation on how many blind or visually impaired people are actually in the USA and how many of them are interested in games and not how many of them could afford them. On the other hand, ESP Soft and later Draconis made more than one paid title. Either the people behind said games had lots of money or they earned lots of it through their sales. If their games were not a success on the small market,
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Valiant, That is true. The people who have the skills to make really high quality audio games don't stay around long because if they have the skills to make high quality audio games they probably have the skills required to get a decent paying job in that field. Therefore making games for free or even commercially for the blind isn't in their long term best interests. We have seen this happen several times just over the last decade or so. Basically, it comes down to two things time and money. If there isn't enough money in making audio games for the blind the person who has the skills isn't going to take the time. Not when he or she can spend that same amount of time working for a mainstream company and make lots more money doing it. The little money made off of audio games isn't really enough to pay for the developer's time, and therefore it often comes down to doing it for the enjoyment of it. Cheers! On 12/18/14, valiant8086 valiant8...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. There is another viewpoint that nobody has mentioned yet, one that I'm pretty sure is one of the bigger problems. The people who are really going nuts and creating amazing games with lots of mechanics, the ones who actually could take the community beyond what it knows, are creating a nice game or 3, then leaving the audio gaming community. Why is this? My guess would be because they have the skills they need to get a real paying job. I like what I'm working on, but if someone saw that and said oh wow I like your skillset, you should think about joining our company. Since you know this much it is obvious you can learn code. We'll train you to use our own language and you can write something we need done. If something like that happened to me, I would be hard pressed not to just drop the game I'm working on. Because while it is going to be a paid game, I don't look for it to make anywhere near enough money to pay for my time. I'm doing it for fun, the ability to play the game myself, the attention in the community, and what money I can get out of it. But we are often jobless, have the idea to make games and sell them for a little cash to hopefully help mom and dad pay our bills, or what have you, and then because we are actually achieving these things, we then just naturally have some of what it takes to actually have a job, if I'm making any sense? I didn't do nearly as good a job explaining as I meant. Basically the very fact that we might have a programmer in our community who can make great audiogames pretty much by definition means we have someone who won't be staying, at least not full time by any means. Cheers, Sent with Thunderbird 24.6.0 portable --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Game Development, Accessibility, and a Future worth Fighting For
We have had much discussion, of late, on a topic we usually discuss thoroughly about every year, sometimes every few months. That topic is game development, its costs, its profits, its hazards. We resort to comparisons with the major game studios, comparisons with major mainstream games we have encountered or heard about. I have had, finally, a clarifying thought, and I intend that it reach all of the blind players and developers of audiogames that it possibly can. I have two discrete, separate topics. First, the fact that developers of games for the blind, by extension audiogames, by extension games in general don't make much money from it. Second, we are a niche market, at this point, primarily due to lack of awareness, lack of exposure, and lack of confidence. First, Developers of audio games don't make living wages. However, neither do developers of most of the games out there for sighted folks. Mojang, the people who made the popular indie game Minecraft, may be rolling in the dosh, but they're a remarkable, phenomenal story, I'm not saying that you have to work for a triple A publisher: Electronic Arts, etc. to make good money, but what I am saying is that we should remember that we're indie developers, that we play indie games. When games for the blind in general, and audiogames in specific, came to be a thing, Indie wasn't a word at all associated with games. Now, especially because of the ease of entrance into the mobile space and the presence of tremendous online markets for PC and Mac, most of the games out there are Indie games. For people unfamiliar with the term, this means they are developed by an independent individual or small team. They aren't made by huge organizations, giant studios, or wealthy individuals. I think that this is a necessary perspective when considering how much we might make by developing software for blind gamers. The second part of this is the new revolution in the mainstream gaming world. Game audio in general is a lot more useful and a lot more important than it was. I couldn't play popular Bioware title Mass Effect in its entirety, but I could play one of the minigames, scanning planets, perfectly well. I could identify, with apparently startling accuracy, direction and distance of enemies. I can locate enemies and follow my dog around in Fable II, a mainstream roleplaying game made by Microsoft/Lionhead Studios. Many games now offer, or rely, on audial cues to tell players something important is coming. This means we are approaching a point of choice. We are approaching an important crossroads. If we stop treating ourselves as a niche in which nobody is interested and start trying to actually get our games out there, maybe we can become a little more mainstream ourselves. I'm not just being idealistic. Do you guys think that every player of Swamp is blind? I and my friends haven't played in a while, but I used to get my sighted wife, and two of my sighted best friends involved with that one. We had such good times. The reason is that Swamp was immersive. It wasn't riddled with beeps, boops, clicks, and other obvious blindness related stuff. What about the Somethin' Else games: Papa Sangre 1 and 2, The Nightjar, and Audio Defense? Are those blind games or are they audio games? Is every player blind or can every player hear? Even Entombed, an obvious game which is fantastic by our standards but rather lackluster by the standards of mainstream games of ten years ago or many indie games today, was enjoyed by several of my friends. I suggest that we are a niche market, at least in part, because we're used to being a niche market. How many games out there run with absolutely awful graphics, and sighted people love them. Steam, Valve's online game database and platform, contains truly thousands of games like these. Even popular entries from the well-known developers Choice of Games are now on Steam, and those are so old school it's cool! As a side note, I have to offer a little advice, especially when considering the demographics of the supposedly niche market we are in. We have to stop comparing our works to major titles like Final Fantasy. We also have to stop pricing our games like them. When an Indie developer can sell their so so RPG for $5 to $10, we can't justify tripling that. Why? Because our developers are also indie developers. If we continue to expect to be a niche, then that's all we'll be. Instead of trying to convince fat cats and major studios that our few thousand blind buyers would make it worth their time to put in the few tweaks necessary to make their multi-million dollar games playable, let's start by asking the indie developers, the folks who, like our own gamemakers, are hoping for a few extra buys to make Christmas just a bit more special, to change their mindset for future projects. Let's get the word out there about our games, try to get noticed, try to advocate for something that will actually bridge the gap. Back briefly to game audio, and
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hello, In regards to Entombed - I always wanted to make it modable, but the architecture would not allow it. It would be easier to re-write the entire game. Although Entombed didn't earn a lot compared to the effort (2 years or so of development), I think I could make a similarly scoped game today faster due to my experience. It's always been my intention to create a sequel, and I've made a start on the foundation. The idea is to make it as modifyable as possible. All aspects of the game could be changed by the community. I think the game would take on a life of its own then and last longer than Entombed has. When you talk about developers leaving the community, I'm not one of them. I'm just a very quiet lurker and I still have a keen interest in making games. The biggest problem I have now is lack of resources. I have a few popular mobile games and they demand a lot of time and effort. Cheers! Jason On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Valiant, That is true. The people who have the skills to make really high quality audio games don't stay around long because if they have the skills to make high quality audio games they probably have the skills required to get a decent paying job in that field. Therefore making games for free or even commercially for the blind isn't in their long term best interests. We have seen this happen several times just over the last decade or so. Basically, it comes down to two things time and money. If there isn't enough money in making audio games for the blind the person who has the skills isn't going to take the time. Not when he or she can spend that same amount of time working for a mainstream company and make lots more money doing it. The little money made off of audio games isn't really enough to pay for the developer's time, and therefore it often comes down to doing it for the enjoyment of it. Cheers! On 12/18/14, valiant8086 valiant8...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. There is another viewpoint that nobody has mentioned yet, one that I'm pretty sure is one of the bigger problems. The people who are really going nuts and creating amazing games with lots of mechanics, the ones who actually could take the community beyond what it knows, are creating a nice game or 3, then leaving the audio gaming community. Why is this? My guess would be because they have the skills they need to get a real paying job. I like what I'm working on, but if someone saw that and said oh wow I like your skillset, you should think about joining our company. Since you know this much it is obvious you can learn code. We'll train you to use our own language and you can write something we need done. If something like that happened to me, I would be hard pressed not to just drop the game I'm working on. Because while it is going to be a paid game, I don't look for it to make anywhere near enough money to pay for my time. I'm doing it for fun, the ability to play the game myself, the attention in the community, and what money I can get out of it. But we are often jobless, have the idea to make games and sell them for a little cash to hopefully help mom and dad pay our bills, or what have you, and then because we are actually achieving these things, we then just naturally have some of what it takes to actually have a job, if I'm making any sense? I didn't do nearly as good a job explaining as I meant. Basically the very fact that we might have a programmer in our community who can make great audiogames pretty much by definition means we have someone who won't be staying, at least not full time by any means. Cheers, Sent with Thunderbird 24.6.0 portable --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hello Jason what mobile games did you write? -Original Message- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jason Allen Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 7:25 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity Hello, In regards to Entombed - I always wanted to make it modable, but the architecture would not allow it. It would be easier to re-write the entire game. Although Entombed didn't earn a lot compared to the effort (2 years or so of development), I think I could make a similarly scoped game today faster due to my experience. It's always been my intention to create a sequel, and I've made a start on the foundation. The idea is to make it as modifyable as possible. All aspects of the game could be changed by the community. I think the game would take on a life of its own then and last longer than Entombed has. When you talk about developers leaving the community, I'm not one of them. I'm just a very quiet lurker and I still have a keen interest in making games. The biggest problem I have now is lack of resources. I have a few popular mobile games and they demand a lot of time and effort. Cheers! Jason On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Valiant, That is true. The people who have the skills to make really high quality audio games don't stay around long because if they have the skills to make high quality audio games they probably have the skills required to get a decent paying job in that field. Therefore making games for free or even commercially for the blind isn't in their long term best interests. We have seen this happen several times just over the last decade or so. Basically, it comes down to two things time and money. If there isn't enough money in making audio games for the blind the person who has the skills isn't going to take the time. Not when he or she can spend that same amount of time working for a mainstream company and make lots more money doing it. The little money made off of audio games isn't really enough to pay for the developer's time, and therefore it often comes down to doing it for the enjoyment of it. Cheers! On 12/18/14, valiant8086 valiant8...@gmail.com wrote: Hi. There is another viewpoint that nobody has mentioned yet, one that I'm pretty sure is one of the bigger problems. The people who are really going nuts and creating amazing games with lots of mechanics, the ones who actually could take the community beyond what it knows, are creating a nice game or 3, then leaving the audio gaming community. Why is this? My guess would be because they have the skills they need to get a real paying job. I like what I'm working on, but if someone saw that and said oh wow I like your skillset, you should think about joining our company. Since you know this much it is obvious you can learn code. We'll train you to use our own language and you can write something we need done. If something like that happened to me, I would be hard pressed not to just drop the game I'm working on. Because while it is going to be a paid game, I don't look for it to make anywhere near enough money to pay for my time. I'm doing it for fun, the ability to play the game myself, the attention in the community, and what money I can get out of it. But we are often jobless, have the idea to make games and sell them for a little cash to hopefully help mom and dad pay our bills, or what have you, and then because we are actually achieving these things, we then just naturally have some of what it takes to actually have a job, if I'm making any sense? I didn't do nearly as good a job explaining as I meant. Basically the very fact that we might have a programmer in our community who can make great audiogames pretty much by definition means we have someone who won't be staying, at least not full time by any means. Cheers, Sent with Thunderbird 24.6.0 portable --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to
[Audyssey] dos stuff
hi i sent this to oms development. I am trying to use old dos applications with dosbox. I am blind. but tinyTalk is very very slow with the sb-talker old software speech for dos. Could you please make some sort of interface so tinyTalk and other screen readers for DOS could have fast responsive speech? how about this. make a speech server app which would install a special dosbox, make it accessible with ASAP or flipper or TinyTalk a server runs in the background emulating an accent on a virtual comPort. thanks Josh --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] tiny talk in dos
hey tiny talk with sound blaster isn't working. and I can't get speech thing working either. how can I use old dos stuff like wordperfect 5.1 and lotus 123? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Thomas, One example is Carl Mickla, who graduated from college with a degree in computer programming in 1995. He released his Any Night Football game in September 1995 written in C plus plus for DOS. In September 2001, Carl Mickla got a job with IBM and moved to Poughkeepsie, New York. In the six years he worked with me at PCS games he programmed 8 Windows games that were sold on CD and the following 18 DOS games that were sold on floppy disk: Arthur's Quest. A 2 Z Key Search. Breakout. Cops. Fox And Hounds. Haze Maze. Mind Puzzles. Mobius Mountain. Monopoly. P C S Car Racing Circuit. P C S Duck Hunt. P C S Space Invaders. Pack Man. Panzers In North Africa. Red Dragon Kick Boxing Challenge. Shooting Range. Snipe Hunt. Tenpin Bowling. Most of the 26 games were developed between 1996 and 2000 or about 6 per year and cost $30 to $40 which would be about $60 to $80 today based on inflation. Back in our peak year of 1999, we also sold games for Harry Hollingsworth, Ivan G. Roelofs and David Greenwood before he started GMA Games. None of these games were sold as downloads, only physical disks sold through Ann Morris Enterprises, A Division of Independent Living Aids, Inc. I don't have the accurate total, but I think we sold about $20,000 in games that year, divided up between all the above people. Carl stopped game development because he could earn three times that total by himself working at IBM. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
hi phil, I tried using dosbox and its not working for me. is there any way to use a dos screen reader anymore at all? On 12/18/2014 10:02 PM, Phil Vlasak wrote: Hi Thomas, One example is Carl Mickla, who graduated from college with a degree in computer programming in 1995. He released his Any Night Football game in September 1995 written in C plus plus for DOS. In September 2001, Carl Mickla got a job with IBM and moved to Poughkeepsie, New York. In the six years he worked with me at PCS games he programmed 8 Windows games that were sold on CD and the following 18 DOS games that were sold on floppy disk: Arthur's Quest. A 2 Z Key Search. Breakout. Cops. Fox And Hounds. Haze Maze. Mind Puzzles. Mobius Mountain. Monopoly. P C S Car Racing Circuit. P C S Duck Hunt. P C S Space Invaders. Pack Man. Panzers In North Africa. Red Dragon Kick Boxing Challenge. Shooting Range. Snipe Hunt. Tenpin Bowling. Most of the 26 games were developed between 1996 and 2000 or about 6 per year and cost $30 to $40 which would be about $60 to $80 today based on inflation. Back in our peak year of 1999, we also sold games for Harry Hollingsworth, Ivan G. Roelofs and David Greenwood before he started GMA Games. None of these games were sold as downloads, only physical disks sold through Ann Morris Enterprises, A Division of Independent Living Aids, Inc. I don't have the accurate total, but I think we sold about $20,000 in games that year, divided up between all the above people. Carl stopped game development because he could earn three times that total by himself working at IBM. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Josh, I do not know any dos screen reader that works on today's computers and Windows. Our DOS games were written for Windows 98 and the DOS that came with it. Our DOS games all required a hardware synthesizer like Echo DEC talk and Double Talk. Our eight Windows games were all self voicing so required no synthesizer to play but did require one to install them. I tried to play one of the Windows 98 games on my Windows Vista computer and it ran very poorly. That is why I converted Pacman and Ten Pin bowling to true Windows games and hope to do more of them. Phil - Original Message - From: Josh k joshknnd1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2014 10:22 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity hi phil, I tried using dosbox and its not working for me. is there any way to use a dos screen reader anymore at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Phil, Thanks for the background history. I knew about Carl Mickla but not the specifics. Your history and sales figures really helps contribute to the discussion here about commercial audio games. I figured you guys had made a decent amount of money off your Dos games, but wasn't quite sure how much. I'd say $20,000 sounds about right. After all that is only about 500 sales priced at $40 USD each. It is a fair amount of money for a secondary income but certainly not enough for a living wage or to consider as a primary source of income. Now days that is barely more than the minimum wage here in the USA. So it is no wonder why Carl left to work for IBM. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Phil Vlasak phi...@bex.net wrote: Hi Thomas, One example is Carl Mickla, who graduated from college with a degree in computer programming in 1995. He released his Any Night Football game in September 1995 written in C plus plus for DOS. In September 2001, Carl Mickla got a job with IBM and moved to Poughkeepsie, New York. In the six years he worked with me at PCS games he programmed 8 Windows games that were sold on CD and the following 18 DOS games that were sold on floppy disk: Arthur's Quest. A 2 Z Key Search. Breakout. Cops. Fox And Hounds. Haze Maze. Mind Puzzles. Mobius Mountain. Monopoly. P C S Car Racing Circuit. P C S Duck Hunt. P C S Space Invaders. Pack Man. Panzers In North Africa. Red Dragon Kick Boxing Challenge. Shooting Range. Snipe Hunt. Tenpin Bowling. Most of the 26 games were developed between 1996 and 2000 or about 6 per year and cost $30 to $40 which would be about $60 to $80 today based on inflation. Back in our peak year of 1999, we also sold games for Harry Hollingsworth, Ivan G. Roelofs and David Greenwood before he started GMA Games. None of these games were sold as downloads, only physical disks sold through Ann Morris Enterprises, A Division of Independent Living Aids, Inc. I don't have the accurate total, but I think we sold about $20,000 in games that year, divided up between all the above people. Carl stopped game development because he could earn three times that total by himself working at IBM. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] audio games popularity
Hi Josh, Simple answer is no. Dos screen readers and other 16-bit applications will not run on modern Windows platforms. I've tried running them in Dosbox with a Dectalk Express and got absolutely nowhere with them. So I don't think running a Dos screen reader on modern Windows is really possible. The only thing I can think of, and I have thought of this for a while now, is embedding a screen reader into Dosbox itself. That way the screen reader can use Sapi and other text to speech services native to the platform while performing screen reading tasks. By making the screen reader an integrated part of Dosbox it would save the end user all the trouble of trying to install some old screen reader into Dosbox and then still require a hardware synth or similar device to run it. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Josh k joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: hi phil, I tried using dosbox and its not working for me. is there any way to use a dos screen reader anymore at all? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] tiny talk in dos
Hi Josh, Honestly, I'm not surprised. The only way I have ever managed to run any old Dos applications etc the last few years is by using Dosemu with Speakup. It isn't a perfect solution, but it does work. I have managed to play some games and run certain apps like Wordperfect 5.1 with Speakup. However, that requires a Linux distribution like Vinux, Ubuntu, or some other distribution with Speakup, Espeakup, and Dosemu. Otherwise I don't think you are going to find a better solution for running old Dos games and apps. I've already tried running copies of Jaws for Dos etc in Dosbox before all to no success. Cheers! On 12/18/14, Josh k joshknnd1...@gmail.com wrote: hey tiny talk with sound blaster isn't working. and I can't get speech thing working either. how can I use old dos stuff like wordperfect 5.1 and lotus 123? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] braillemon
Hi Ishan, What's the script error. Nobody can help you if you don't give us the exact error you are having with the game. When reporting problems and issues don't assume everyone knows what you are talking about. That just wastes everyone's time trying to figure out what the error is when you could have said so in the first place. Cheers! On 12/18/14, ishan dhami ishan1dha...@gmail.com wrote: Hello friends the game braillemon is not running in my win 8 laptop. it is the script error can someone assist me? Thanks Ishan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
