Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Will we be able to write our own scripts. Since we are on screenreaders, you told me earlier you were going to do this for linux, make a distro something called pro speech, I guess this is along the same lines. At 03:12 PM 12/2/2006, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Sky, If you mean my screen reader project I am developing it for Windows 2000, XP, and Vista. Right now it isn't much better than Windows narater , but it is coming along slowly. Btw. when it is ready for 1.0 release I plan to offer it as a free download, and unlike Thunder I plan to script the applications and support apps like Soundforge, Internet Explorer, Outlook, Office, etc out of the box. So stay tuned for updates and news. I don't look for any real news to spring or so when it reaches perhaps Alpha testing. Sky Taylor wrote: Will it work on XP? ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
true tom. However I fail to see why ms releases xp and vista in the same year. I'd rather get xpsp3 and then later sp4 rather than vista. Would be different if ms just said xp was going to die real soon, but its life has been extended. And by the time xpsp4 dies if xpsp4 actually comes out, there is a chance that the next version of windows will be out. Still who knows, its taken around 5 or so years for vista to come out, its probably going to take longer for the next gen systems after that. Hopefully when I eventually get vista, prices have dropped and some nice persion has made hacks for some of the more anoying features. Oh and for those that want vista, get xp media centre, Someone told me that vista is basically that. Its a pitty the blind can't design its own windows interface like we used to do with the old keynote keysoft. It would still use windows, its just we wouldn't use th interfaces windows had. At 03:28 PM 12/1/2006, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi, short answer is because it is Microsoft. They need a good reason to have everyone pay for an upgrade and get features they probably don't need or want. If you stick with XP and get SP3 which is f ree Microsoft isn't getting any money out of that. Therefore Vista is what you will end up buying and paying through the nose for. shaun everiss wrote: This ofcause puts the question why ms is releasing vista at all when there are 2 more or at least 1 definate service pack of xp coming. This should give everyone time to adapt to vista, who knows maybe we will be passed vista by then. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
I will be interested to test and maybe help develop the reader, maybe learn how to script. I have all sdks I just havn't got round to reading the manuals for things. At 03:26 PM 12/1/2006, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Shaun, Fortunately, for me I am working on a screen reader which I will replace the expensive screen readers with, and once I am able to actually get my hands on vista I can test how much of the access API MS broke and I need to fix. However, my screen reader project here isn't stable all because the sdk I need to bridge the accessibility I can't find. Although, nice thing is once the sr speech engine is written the rest will be handled through application specific scripts. shaun everiss wrote: well its disgusting. Since xp will stay around for an age yet I'm not to worried. However For now I hate the ie7 interface, I really do. We will see in the next little while when I spend the dough on screenreaders. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Sky, If you mean my screen reader project I am developing it for Windows 2000, XP, and Vista. Right now it isn't much better than Windows narater , but it is coming along slowly. Btw. when it is ready for 1.0 release I plan to offer it as a free download, and unlike Thunder I plan to script the applications and support apps like Soundforge, Internet Explorer, Outlook, Office, etc out of the box. So stay tuned for updates and news. I don't look for any real news to spring or so when it reaches perhaps Alpha testing. Sky Taylor wrote: Will it work on XP? ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Shaun, How about we move the screen reader discussion over to the USA Games discussion list since it is or will be one of my products. However, since I have this email open here is a little blurb about it. The screen reader right now isn't to the point I would replace Jaws or Window Eyes with it, but it will have some great potential down the road especially by the time it hits full release status. Esentually, at this point it supports all SAPI compliant synths such as Neospeech, MS SAPI, and Cepstral voices. I am hoping to support Eloquence and Dectalk, but that will come in it's own time. Hardware sinths and braille support isn't on the 1.0 roadmap. However, unlike allot of screen readers including Window Eyes, Narrator, and Thunder my screen reader has the power of a scripting language. I have chosen a common script language for the application so to learn how to script the screen reader and submit custom scripts all one needs to do is pick up a book from a computer store learn the script language, and begin scripting your favorite apps. The downsides is I don't yet have the now-how to make it do all the things Jaws and Window Eyes can do. For example, a talking install. I can not do that, and will likely ship 1.0 with InnoSetup which is simple for installation, but leaves a bit to be desired. Then, again my sr is going to be free and it is more of a hobby project rather than something I plan to market and sell. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi, short answer is because it is Microsoft. They need a good reason to have everyone pay for an upgrade and get features they probably don't need or want. If you stick with XP and get SP3 which is f ree Microsoft isn't getting any money out of that. Therefore Vista is what you will end up buying and paying through the nose for. shaun everiss wrote: This ofcause puts the question why ms is releasing vista at all when there are 2 more or at least 1 definate service pack of xp coming. This should give everyone time to adapt to vista, who knows maybe we will be passed vista by then. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Shaun, Fortunately, for me I am working on a screen reader which I will replace the expensive screen readers with, and once I am able to actually get my hands on vista I can test how much of the access API MS broke and I need to fix. However, my screen reader project here isn't stable all because the sdk I need to bridge the accessibility I can't find. Although, nice thing is once the sr speech engine is written the rest will be handled through application specific scripts. shaun everiss wrote: well its disgusting. Since xp will stay around for an age yet I'm not to worried. However For now I hate the ie7 interface, I really do. We will see in the next little while when I spend the dough on screenreaders. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Will it work on XP? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista? Hi Shaun, Fortunately, for me I am working on a screen reader which I will replace the expensive screen readers with, and once I am able to actually get my hands on vista I can test how much of the access API MS broke and I need to fix. However, my screen reader project here isn't stable all because the sdk I need to bridge the accessibility I can't find. Although, nice thing is once the sr speech engine is written the rest will be handled through application specific scripts. shaun everiss wrote: well its disgusting. Since xp will stay around for an age yet I'm not to worried. However For now I hate the ie7 interface, I really do. We will see in the next little while when I spend the dough on screenreaders. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
I've eventually found some articles. Have selected some interesting parts below. However, one feature that hasn't racked up many column inches is the new version of Microsoft's graphics API (application program Interface), DirectX 10. All current games and hardware use DirectX 9c, but with Vista comes a whole new API. Unlike previous versions, DirectX 10 (or Windows Graphic Foundation as it was known at one point) will be totally new and therefore have limited - if any - backwards compatibility with the current crop of DirectX 9 cards. Microsoft has stated that DirectX 9 will be supported side-by-side to an extent with a new version 9L, but it won't have the same power as cards operating fully with DirectX 10. still look good, PC gaming can only compete if it has an overhaul, which DirectX 10 should provide. One of the biggest criticisms of PC gaming is that games can look so different depending on the hardware you have installed. By unifying some of the underlying technologies in the hardware and the software that the games are written on, this should change for the better. The audio stack in Vista is completely new. Microsoft moved sound card drivers out of the kernel, which means they can't crash the whole PC. This choice has improved performance enough that rewriting the stack - in 32-bit floating point operations rather than 16-bit integers - didn't slow it down. Gone are the incomprehensible sliders of the XP sound controls; these are replaced by volume controls for your speakers, phone line, microphone, line in and CD audio. And there's a huge improvement if you ever use headphones with your PC; the new OS lets you choose the volume level for each application separately, which means that you can turn your music up without being deafened by system sounds. Better for gaming? Windows XP is the gamer's OS. Forget consoles, forget pocket gaming systems: XP is where it's at. With XP's dominant position in the gaming world, Vista's going to have to go a long way to improve on XP. However, with the release of RC1 the signs are good. Starting with the basics, Vista comes with an expanded suite of built-in games. The familiar faces are all there, but they've been given a makeover and now use Vista's new graphics tools. New games include smoothly animated Mah Jong tiles and an educational game for children. There's nothing revolutionary, but the new look and feel and additional titles make Vista's out-of-the-box gaming experience more than equal to XP's. The new Games Explorer should show the majority of games you've installed, making them easier to find and launch. Ari - Original Message - From: Raul A. Gallegos [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista? The answer is simple. MS is doing what it always has. Look at the current Windows. XP has been out for some time now, yet there were still service packs for Windows 2k which in many ways was even more stable than XP itself. Releasing Vista is no different. MS will support XP for a while yet and continue to improve upon it. Eventually Windows 2k support will drop and then XP. By then the next encarnation of Windows will be out I'm sure. * shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-11-28 22:21]: This ofcause puts the question why ms is releasing vista at all when there are 2 more or at least 1 definate service pack of xp coming. This should give everyone time to adapt to vista, who knows maybe we will be passed vista by then. Maybe someone will find ways to make the more anoying features of vista go away. I wander what powertoys will be for vista, since every os so far has powertoys and sometimes kernal toys. I know sink toy is going to vista, maybe tweakui I only use the old control panel ui as its all I need. Think I better stop straying. -- Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. -- Genesis 19:22 Raul A. Gallegos ... IliwSsmc ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Ari, Thanks for the post. This was a very good one, and I am glad to here the news. It is something posative in favor of vista. Ari wrote: I've eventually found some articles. Have selected some interesting parts below. However, one feature that hasn't racked up many column inches is the new version of Microsoft's graphics API (application program Interface), DirectX 10. All current games and hardware use DirectX 9c, but with Vista comes a whole new API. Unlike previous versions, DirectX 10 (or Windows Graphic Foundation as it was known at one point) will be totally new and therefore have limited - if any - backwards compatibility with the current crop of DirectX 9 cards. Microsoft has stated that DirectX 9 will be supported side-by-side to an extent with a new version 9L, but it won't have the same power as cards operating fully with DirectX 10. still look good, PC gaming can only compete if it has an overhaul, which DirectX 10 should provide. One of the biggest criticisms of PC gaming is that games can look so different depending on the hardware you have installed. By unifying some of the underlying technologies in the hardware and the software that the games are written on, this should change for the better. The audio stack in Vista is completely new. Microsoft moved sound card drivers out of the kernel, which means they can't crash the whole PC. This choice has improved performance enough that rewriting the stack - in 32-bit floating point operations rather than 16-bit integers - didn't slow it down. Gone are the incomprehensible sliders of the XP sound controls; these are replaced by volume controls for your speakers, phone line, microphone, line in and CD audio. And there's a huge improvement if you ever use headphones with your PC; the new OS lets you choose the volume level for each application separately, which means that you can turn your music up without being deafened by system sounds. Better for gaming? Windows XP is the gamer's OS. Forget consoles, forget pocket gaming systems: XP is where it's at. With XP's dominant position in the gaming world, Vista's going to have to go a long way to improve on XP. However, with the release of RC1 the signs are good. Starting with the basics, Vista comes with an expanded suite of built-in games. The familiar faces are all there, but they've been given a makeover and now use Vista's new graphics tools. New games include smoothly animated Mah Jong tiles and an educational game for children. There's nothing revolutionary, but the new look and feel and additional titles make Vista's out-of-the-box gaming experience more than equal to XP's. The new Games Explorer should show the majority of games you've installed, making them easier to find and launch. Ari ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi, Yeah, and given a choice I would probably still pick 2K over XP except most of the development stuff for .NET is geared for XP and Vista. Raul A. Gallegos wrote: The answer is simple. MS is doing what it always has. Look at the current Windows. XP has been out for some time now, yet there were still service packs for Windows 2k which in many ways was even more stable than XP itself. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Shaun, Snip the vista interface if thats like ie7 with toolbars that can't turn off and search boxes that are core components, I wouldn't upgrade, I'd rather get xp... End Snip You are getting the point. The Vista interface is basically a fully integrated Internet Exploder 7 which is which is a fully integrated core part of the operating system. Somehow that seams like a violation of the Netscape case, but we are talking Microsoft. Snip I also can't afford the large memmory and other things I'd need for systems to run vista, the 512mb ram system will not cut it and the 1gb minimum is reported as just cutting it. End Snip That is also true. I generally follow the rule of double what ever Microsoft says the requirement is. If they say 512 MB. give it 1024 which is a GB. of ram. If they say 1 GHZ processor give it 2 to b safe. The main reason is that those requirements Microsoft gives are technically true, it will run, but it will not run well or be practical. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi, Yeah, that was funny. I was in college then and I remember when that happened. I also remember evaluating 98 1st eddition at campass to see how it worked with access. Answer was noth very much, and it crashed on the test machine constantly. Bryan Peterson wrote: I just thought it was funny that when Bill Gates decided to unveil Win98, he did so with a demonstration on public television and the system crashed right on the air. I don't remember what show it was but I remember my mom saying something about it. It was pretty funny. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi, A caution. Much of what has been said is informed speculation. Meaning speculation compiled based on information those known or asumed to be true. We won't know the status until someone gets Vista and starts putting the games to the test. Although, I will scope out the DirectX 10 sdk prerelease if I can find it and test it with gtc etc. shaun everiss wrote: Well I don't know how much I spent on games, I have most of liam's games, all of jims,and gma games games. I spent loads of cash on all these, I also have all the bsc arcade packs. I don't really want to spend heaps to upgrade everything unless I have to. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Shaun, Yeah, with sp3 for XP on the way and someday perhaps a sp4 XP should still have quite a bit of life in it. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
I had no clue that an SP3 was coming out for XP. Anyone have more info on this like articles I can read? Thanks For an amazing video gaming site containing original soundtracks, game art, etc, go here. http://gh.ffshrine.org?r=16426 - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista? Hi Shaun, Yeah, with sp3 for XP on the way and someday perhaps a sp4 XP should still have quite a bit of life in it. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
well its disgusting. Since xp will stay around for an age yet I'm not to worried. However For now I hate the ie7 interface, I really do. We will see in the next little while when I spend the dough on screenreaders. At 05:54 AM 11/29/2006, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Shaun, Snip the vista interface if thats like ie7 with toolbars that can't turn off and search boxes that are core components, I wouldn't upgrade, I'd rather get xp... End Snip You are getting the point. The Vista interface is basically a fully integrated Internet Exploder 7 which is which is a fully integrated core part of the operating system. Somehow that seams like a violation of the Netscape case, but we are talking Microsoft. Snip I also can't afford the large memmory and other things I'd need for systems to run vista, the 512mb ram system will not cut it and the 1gb minimum is reported as just cutting it. End Snip That is also true. I generally follow the rule of double what ever Microsoft says the requirement is. If they say 512 MB. give it 1024 which is a GB. of ram. If they say 1 GHZ processor give it 2 to b safe. The main reason is that those requirements Microsoft gives are technically true, it will run, but it will not run well or be practical. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
www.softwarepatch.com. the pack is supposed to hit the net sometimes in the iddle of next year. At 01:17 PM 11/29/2006, Yohandy wrote: I had no clue that an SP3 was coming out for XP. Anyone have more info on this like articles I can read? Thanks For an amazing video gaming site containing original soundtracks, game art, etc, go here. http://gh.ffshrine.org?r=16426 - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista? Hi Shaun, Yeah, with sp3 for XP on the way and someday perhaps a sp4 XP should still have quite a bit of life in it. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
This ofcause puts the question why ms is releasing vista at all when there are 2 more or at least 1 definate service pack of xp coming. This should give everyone time to adapt to vista, who knows maybe we will be passed vista by then. Maybe someone will find ways to make the more anoying features of vista go away. I wander what powertoys will be for vista, since every os so far has powertoys and sometimes kernal toys. I know sink toy is going to vista, maybe tweakui I only use the old control panel ui as its all I need. Think I better stop straying. At 06:16 AM 11/29/2006, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi Shaun, Yeah, with sp3 for XP on the way and someday perhaps a sp4 XP should still have quite a bit of life in it. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
The answer is simple. MS is doing what it always has. Look at the current Windows. XP has been out for some time now, yet there were still service packs for Windows 2k which in many ways was even more stable than XP itself. Releasing Vista is no different. MS will support XP for a while yet and continue to improve upon it. Eventually Windows 2k support will drop and then XP. By then the next encarnation of Windows will be out I'm sure. * shaun everiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-11-28 22:21]: This ofcause puts the question why ms is releasing vista at all when there are 2 more or at least 1 definate service pack of xp coming. This should give everyone time to adapt to vista, who knows maybe we will be passed vista by then. Maybe someone will find ways to make the more anoying features of vista go away. I wander what powertoys will be for vista, since every os so far has powertoys and sometimes kernal toys. I know sink toy is going to vista, maybe tweakui I only use the old control panel ui as its all I need. Think I better stop straying. -- Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. -- Genesis 19:22 Raul A. Gallegos ... IliwSsmc ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
[Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi guys, I don't know whether this has been discussed while I was away, but I'd like to tell you guys about this interesting article I read in a computer magazine about gaming on Windows Vista. First, DirectX 10 will only be made to support Vista. Another thing is that, not knowing if I understood the article properly, but some old games that work on XP won't work on Vista. I'd like to know has anyone else heard anything about gaming on Vista and are there positive/negative things for us? Ari ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Ari, Mind you not all of what I am about to say here I am totally sure about, but I've been looking over the beta sdks for Vista and it is going to prove to be quite a bit different from the 98/2000/XP era of Windows. First major change, from a programming standpoint, is that most of the sdks and apps will be gueard for Visual Studio .NET 2005 and later versions. Vista's Platform SDK will be shipping with .NET Framework 3 which has some drastic upgrades including a new version of MS SAPI which is fully managed. Meaning, that Sapi will be compatible with .NET Framework applications. Also the Vista Platform SDK contains a new approach to accessibility which is going to replace MSAA in the future, or probably will at any rate. The DirectX 10 SDK appears to be geared totally for the managed .NET Framework coder, and not giving much backward compatibility to older games using DirectX 7 and 8. The point here Microsoft is making a clear drive to get developers to comply with Visual Studio 2005, use one of the .NET languages, and stop monkeying around with VB 6 and other older languages, and get with the program. Grin. Of course, the core of Vista isn't the only consideration. The entire look and feel of Vista is, well, weird. I will say it is more designed around a web-centric roll with Internet Exploder 7 practically running the background, in your face, and waiting for you to jump on the web. For example XP has had this feature, but Vista has magnified it you can clear away all your icons on your desktop and make it one massive web page. In short if you are on cable your home page, www.someplace.com, can be your desktop, and the web is no further than your desktop. Of course, your desktop has the usual task bars etc but now you have this ugly media bar with stock tickers, weather reports, etc running in the background happily updating away. As I said Vista is very web-centric, and if you are not web connected Vista might break down, cry, and then crash. Ha, ha, just joking. Vista also has a more 3D look and feel than any other os to date. Probably, one of the major reasons it needs a very modern processor and lots of ram to run smoothly. I have heard that visually many apps such as office 2007 are suppose to look quite different. The menu bars are going to be replaced by a menu strip, some tool bars added, and I am sure that little twerp, my arch enemy, the enemy of my computer, the dread of dreads,, Mr. Office Assistant will have some new and stupid looking looks and animation. Lol! By the way, does anyone else hate that little goof ball? I mean ever since his intro in Office 97 I never got use to him. He pops up so much and is so annoying I named him Q after the Star Trek character. Instead of Captain Picard saying, Q, get off my bridge, my version kind of goes like, Q, get off my screen. Ah, but I digress. Anyway, I have heard there are visual differences in the ways apps look, buttons look, icons, etc, and most of that is of the real question about games. So I will summarize quickly what I think is going to be the case. However, this is a guess only not fact. Games written with .NET in mind STFC, Rail racer, Monty will certainly work well as they are employing early versions of the technologies that are a core of Vista. If problems are encountered they can be easily updated to meet the challenge. Games designed on an unmanaged version of DirectX such 7 and 8 may have a tougher time as I have heard, not prove, that Vista might be dropping 8 support. If true any games, engines, based in languages like VB 6 would be stuck where they are, and remain there until updated to VB.NET 2005 and DirectX 9/10. Point here is that Microsoft is moving on even if the agdev community is not and it is one reason I urge new developers not to try VB 6, and start out in the dark ages of programming, and start out fresh with what is current, cutting edge, because by the time tomorrow comes what you know will be the standard. I will leave it to others to prove or disprove weather or not DirectX 8 support is being dropped, but I have heard it from a somewhat reliable source. Bottom line, developers may need to update to support Vista. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
I'd actually also heard something about many games that were made for XP will not work under Vista. The thing I'm trying to get at, is, if there is no support for older versions of DirectX, and if the new games will then not work under old windows versions, the message to us is clear? Adapt or die. I mean, old games like gma's games and others will not work under Vista, and, what's even worse is would those of us using XP and older versions of Windows then have to upgrade to Vista to play new games that come out? How are developers of accessible games going to adapt to Vista? By the way, from what you tell me about the whole thing being a sort of web interface, it sounds awful! At the university, some people use the Active Desktop in Windows, I can't stand it! I also don't like these web interfaces like the help system where you try and move round and round in a circle of links! Ari - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista? Hi Ari, Mind you not all of what I am about to say here I am totally sure about, but I've been looking over the beta sdks for Vista and it is going to prove to be quite a bit different from the 98/2000/XP era of Windows. First major change, from a programming standpoint, is that most of the sdks and apps will be gueard for Visual Studio .NET 2005 and later versions. Vista's Platform SDK will be shipping with .NET Framework 3 which has some drastic upgrades including a new version of MS SAPI which is fully managed. Meaning, that Sapi will be compatible with .NET Framework applications. Also the Vista Platform SDK contains a new approach to accessibility which is going to replace MSAA in the future, or probably will at any rate. The DirectX 10 SDK appears to be geared totally for the managed .NET Framework coder, and not giving much backward compatibility to older games using DirectX 7 and 8. The point here Microsoft is making a clear drive to get developers to comply with Visual Studio 2005, use one of the .NET languages, and stop monkeying around with VB 6 and other older languages, and get with the program. Grin. Of course, the core of Vista isn't the only consideration. The entire look and feel of Vista is, well, weird. I will say it is more designed around a web-centric roll with Internet Exploder 7 practically running the background, in your face, and waiting for you to jump on the web. For example XP has had this feature, but Vista has magnified it you can clear away all your icons on your desktop and make it one massive web page. In short if you are on cable your home page, www.someplace.com, can be your desktop, and the web is no further than your desktop. Of course, your desktop has the usual task bars etc but now you have this ugly media bar with stock tickers, weather reports, etc running in the background happily updating away. As I said Vista is very web-centric, and if you are not web connected Vista might break down, cry, and then crash. Ha, ha, just joking. Vista also has a more 3D look and feel than any other os to date. Probably, one of the major reasons it needs a very modern processor and lots of ram to run smoothly. I have heard that visually many apps such as office 2007 are suppose to look quite different. The menu bars are going to be replaced by a menu strip, some tool bars added, and I am sure that little twerp, my arch enemy, the enemy of my computer, the dread of dreads,, Mr. Office Assistant will have some new and stupid looking looks and animation. Lol! By the way, does anyone else hate that little goof ball? I mean ever since his intro in Office 97 I never got use to him. He pops up so much and is so annoying I named him Q after the Star Trek character. Instead of Captain Picard saying, Q, get off my bridge, my version kind of goes like, Q, get off my screen. Ah, but I digress. Anyway, I have heard there are visual differences in the ways apps look, buttons look, icons, etc, and most of that is of the real question about games. So I will summarize quickly what I think is going to be the case. However, this is a guess only not fact. Games written with .NET in mind STFC, Rail racer, Monty will certainly work well as they are employing early versions of the technologies that are a core of Vista. If problems are encountered they can be easily updated to meet the challenge. Games designed on an unmanaged version of DirectX such 7 and 8 may have a tougher time as I have heard, not prove, that Vista might be dropping 8 support. If true any games, engines, based in languages like VB 6 would be stuck where they are, and remain there until updated to VB.NET 2005 and DirectX 9/10. Point here is that Microsoft is moving on even if the agdev community is not and it is one reason I urge new developers not to try VB 6, and start out in the dark ages of programming, and start out fresh with what is current
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Ari, The entire problem with Vista for us is that Microsoft is being very silent and tight jawed about Vista except what they want you to know. I've only managed to find out tidbits through talking to other devs who have tested it, and stuff I read between the lines on the Vista Platform SDK. However The message I have recieved through the info I have heard and read so far is the message they have quietly implied to us is the adapt or die attitude. In some ways I can't blame them as they have been running the same old libraries for ages, and now the new platform SDK is completely new and different. That is why many programs and even games or going to die when Vista comes out. Naturally, Vista games will not be backward compatible unless the company is using the .NET Framework which is backward compatible to any operating system that uses the same framework, and in the case of games DirectX as well. I do know they will be releasing .NET Framework 3.0 for Win 2000, XP, and Windows Server 2003, sometime next year so those operating systems will have some compatibility with Vista for sure. 95, 98, ME apps will be dead. As for DirectX 10 I believe it will bre backward compatible with DirectX 9.0 managed. I specified managed which is he .NET version of the DirectX libraries. 9.0 had 8.0 compatibility libs for say VB 6, Visual C++ 6, etc, but Microsoft has discontinued support for Visual Studio 98, which is 6.0, and you can expect anything written in that era of languages are going to die a quick death if they don't adapt soon. I saw this coming in 20904 and started off with .NET to get ahead of the screaming that will accompany the old line VB 6 devs if Vista doesn't support those apps. The good news our accessible game developers are slowly but surely moving to C#.NET or VB.NET. I know Justin knows VB.NET, Che knows VB.NET, Josh I think went to C#.NET, I believe it was Liam playing with VB.NET a little bit, I am using C#.NET for all my titles, and that is a good sign that developers are in the process of making the switch. However, the status of our older titles will have to wait for Vista to come out. Perhaps it is not as bad as we think it will be, and it could be worse than we think. I know most of the games for accessible games are VB 6 like the Kitchens Inc games, the GMA Game Engine, Lone Wolf, Trek 2000, Liam's Games, and plenty of others, and if Vista doesn't have proper support for those older apps those games are going to crash, and the accessible gaming market will come to a screaming hault in that event. Either way, Vista is probably going to be a highly expensive upgrade for the accessibility community. We will have to upgrade to the latest screen readers as I have been told for a fact that anything, I do mean anything older, than the latest Jaws or Window eyes will not run on Vista and work properly. That is tough as I know people still running Jaws 4.5 and 5.0 on XP, Window Eyes 4.2, and so on and they will be paying through the nose to fully upgrade screen readers to run with the thing. If, I mean if, many accessible games don't work, need to be rewitten, I can imagine upgrade or repurchase prices would be in order for the work involved in porting them to the new operating system which would have to be done sooner or later to maintain some kind of value. Else will end up like the old dos games fforgotten and unplayed. I can see several other programs requiring updates, and the entire upgrade becoming an investment. However, XP still has allot of life in it and even though Vista will hit the seen next year there is nothing wrong in holding to XP for a couple of more years buying the necessary upgrades one at a time, and of course wait for the accessible games to test and figure out if the products will work on Vista or not. All of this is pretty much the hypathetical long view on my part. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
Hi Liam, Yeah, I usually wait as well. I wait for the dust to settle and for the issues to be discovered to upgrade. As I recall I used Windows 2000 up until late 2003 or early 2004 before I went XP, and it had already been out a while so I usually don't rush in to upgrades. Especially what happened to me in mid 90's taught me the lesson. I was going back to college and I had to have the latest computers with Win 95 on them. Oh yes, had to have it. Well got it for school only to find Jaws, and everything else worked badly, and the os sucked, sucked sucked. It was only to the second release of 95 did it become stable. The original original release which was only shipped on computers for a few months was crash happy. Can you imagine trying to explain to your parents why you need a Win 95 upgrade when you have 95 that the version that shipped with the computer was riddled with bugs, was the first eddition, and the second eddition had like loads of patches to fix that. Well, I eventually got it, but I have found first edditions and releases usually aren't cracked up to much. XP SP2 is much more rock solid than the 2001 eddition although many probably have forgotten the monsterous security holes and bugs in XP's initial release. As for VS6 it has been dead a long while. In 2003 they were urging people to move away from it, and in 2005 they dropped support completely. Liam Erven wrote: usually with an operating system, I wait a year and a half to upgrade. Knowing with the way a lot of people work, they'll do the same thing. vs 6 is ancient technology. I don't blame microsoft for not supporting it in Vista. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
I just thought it was funny that when Bill Gates decided to unveil Win98, he did so with a demonstration on public television and the system crashed right on the air. I don't remember what show it was but I remember my mom saying something about it. It was pretty funny. It ain't pretty when the pretty leaves you with no place to go. J.D. Fortune, Pretty Vegas - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista? Hi Liam, Yeah, I usually wait as well. I wait for the dust to settle and for the issues to be discovered to upgrade. As I recall I used Windows 2000 up until late 2003 or early 2004 before I went XP, and it had already been out a while so I usually don't rush in to upgrades. Especially what happened to me in mid 90's taught me the lesson. I was going back to college and I had to have the latest computers with Win 95 on them. Oh yes, had to have it. Well got it for school only to find Jaws, and everything else worked badly, and the os sucked, sucked sucked. It was only to the second release of 95 did it become stable. The original original release which was only shipped on computers for a few months was crash happy. Can you imagine trying to explain to your parents why you need a Win 95 upgrade when you have 95 that the version that shipped with the computer was riddled with bugs, was the first eddition, and the second eddition had like loads of patches to fix that. Well, I eventually got it, but I have found first edditions and releases usually aren't cracked up to much. XP SP2 is much more rock solid than the 2001 eddition although many probably have forgotten the monsterous security holes and bugs in XP's initial release. As for VS6 it has been dead a long while. In 2003 they were urging people to move away from it, and in 2005 they dropped support completely. Liam Erven wrote: usually with an operating system, I wait a year and a half to upgrade. Knowing with the way a lot of people work, they'll do the same thing. vs 6 is ancient technology. I don't blame microsoft for not supporting it in Vista. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
no I havn't heard anything. However if this article rings true it means that games for the blind will have to stay at dx9 level for now. Either that or have dx9 and 10 support for backward compatibility. I doubt that I will upgrade to vista and in deed upgrade for a few years yet. Its taken me 4 or so years to get the 3 systems we have upgraded to xp, and another year to stop using legacy win98 and office97 all together. Yesterday I had to solve an issue with wmp11 and klite mega codec. Its not likely I will upgrade for 2 reasons. 1. xpsp3 comes out when vista comes out or around then. So I will upgrade to that. 2. the vista interface if thats like ie7 with toolbars that can't turn off and search boxes that are core components, I wouldn't upgrade, I'd rather get xp even if I have to download xp which is not legal, but I refuse to upgrade. At least as long as I can. I also can't afford the large memmory and other things I'd need for systems to run vista, the 512mb ram system will not cut it and the 1gb minimum is reported as just cutting it. There is added security,and if its ms its more holes and annoyances. I'll cross the bridge when something breaks, but as long as xp lives, or I have a coppy lagit or not I will stay with it for now. I do hope though that someone at ms make some sence come around. I don't want to stay in the passed but it aint easy anymore. IN the coming year I am upgrading screenreading software so I am ready in case vista does have to go on a system. Its my hope that xpsp3 will increas the life of xp by a bit at least. Also the piracy things ms put in place will just become a nucence because some hardcore crim always cracks the ms os and then security of the product keys means nothing. But who knows? I may be proved wrong or not, who knows. At 06:58 PM 11/27/2006, Ari wrote: Hi guys, I don't know whether this has been discussed while I was away, but I'd like to tell you guys about this interesting article I read in a computer magazine about gaming on Windows Vista. First, DirectX 10 will only be made to support Vista. Another thing is that, not knowing if I understood the article properly, but some old games that work on XP won't work on Vista. I'd like to know has anyone else heard anything about gaming on Vista and are there positive/negative things for us? Ari ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web.
Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista?
I never got along with vs6 installers, beside the vstudio express has a good ide. At 09:36 AM 11/28/2006, Liam Erven wrote: usually with an operating system, I wait a year and a half to upgrade. Knowing with the way a lot of people work, they'll do the same thing. vs 6 is ancient technology. I don't blame microsoft for not supporting it in Vista. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Gaming on Windows Vista? Hi Ari, The entire problem with Vista for us is that Microsoft is being very silent and tight jawed about Vista except what they want you to know. I've only managed to find out tidbits through talking to other devs who have tested it, and stuff I read between the lines on the Vista Platform SDK. However The message I have recieved through the info I have heard and read so far is the message they have quietly implied to us is the adapt or die attitude. In some ways I can't blame them as they have been running the same old libraries for ages, and now the new platform SDK is completely new and different. That is why many programs and even games or going to die when Vista comes out. Naturally, Vista games will not be backward compatible unless the company is using the .NET Framework which is backward compatible to any operating system that uses the same framework, and in the case of games DirectX as well. I do know they will be releasing .NET Framework 3.0 for Win 2000, XP, and Windows Server 2003, sometime next year so those operating systems will have some compatibility with Vista for sure. 95, 98, ME apps will be dead. As for DirectX 10 I believe it will bre backward compatible with DirectX 9.0 managed. I specified managed which is he .NET version of the DirectX libraries. 9.0 had 8.0 compatibility libs for say VB 6, Visual C++ 6, etc, but Microsoft has discontinued support for Visual Studio 98, which is 6.0, and you can expect anything written in that era of languages are going to die a quick death if they don't adapt soon. I saw this coming in 20904 and started off with .NET to get ahead of the screaming that will accompany the old line VB 6 devs if Vista doesn't support those apps. The good news our accessible game developers are slowly but surely moving to C#.NET or VB.NET. I know Justin knows VB.NET, Che knows VB.NET, Josh I think went to C#.NET, I believe it was Liam playing with VB.NET a little bit, I am using C#.NET for all my titles, and that is a good sign that developers are in the process of making the switch. However, the status of our older titles will have to wait for Vista to come out. Perhaps it is not as bad as we think it will be, and it could be worse than we think. I know most of the games for accessible games are VB 6 like the Kitchens Inc games, the GMA Game Engine, Lone Wolf, Trek 2000, Liam's Games, and plenty of others, and if Vista doesn't have proper support for those older apps those games are going to crash, and the accessible gaming market will come to a screaming hault in that event. Either way, Vista is probably going to be a highly expensive upgrade for the accessibility community. We will have to upgrade to the latest screen readers as I have been told for a fact that anything, I do mean anything older, than the latest Jaws or Window eyes will not run on Vista and work properly. That is tough as I know people still running Jaws 4.5 and 5.0 on XP, Window Eyes 4.2, and so on and they will be paying through the nose to fully upgrade screen readers to run with the thing. If, I mean if, many accessible games don't work, need to be rewitten, I can imagine upgrade or repurchase prices would be in order for the work involved in porting them to the new operating system which would have to be done sooner or later to maintain some kind of value. Else will end up like the old dos games fforgotten and unplayed. I can see several other programs requiring updates, and the entire upgrade becoming an investment. However, XP still has allot of life in it and even though Vista will hit the seen next year there is nothing wrong in holding to XP for a couple of more years buying the necessary upgrades one at a time, and of course wait for the accessible games to test and figure out if the products will work on Vista or not. All of this is pretty much the hypathetical long view on my part. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any subscription changes via the web. ___ Gamers mailing list .. Gamers@audyssey.org To unsubscribe send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can visit http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org to make any
