Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi, In truthI don't care. Personally I'm ready to get this thing, but I wouldn't complain if you decided to make it that much better. Go ahead. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Shiny protector Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 2:23 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Exactly. Forget about those complainers, your effort is appreciated. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels > Well said. > We are the Knights who say...Ni! > - Original Message - > From: "Ben" > To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels > > >>I agree completely with the right honourable gentlemans statement. Tom. >>Do >> what you want, and be proud of it. If you get reasonable feedback from >> the >> community for reasonable changes, make them happen if you wish. no one >> is >> forcing you to do anything at all. And as was said, you can't please >> everyone. Just be pleased yourself that you've done a great job - all >> the >> blood sweat and tears you've put into this should count for something on >> your part. Well done, and keep going with it! >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Exactly. Forget about those complainers, your effort is appreciated. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Well said. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Ben" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels I agree completely with the right honourable gentlemans statement. Tom. Do what you want, and be proud of it. If you get reasonable feedback from the community for reasonable changes, make them happen if you wish. no one is forcing you to do anything at all. And as was said, you can't please everyone. Just be pleased yourself that you've done a great job - all the blood sweat and tears you've put into this should count for something on your part. Well done, and keep going with it! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Tom. I'm not sure about batman, though to be perfectly honest the graphics are so universally dark in that game I've always found it slightly difficult to play. T2002 has actually recieved some quite severe cryticism about the level size, indeed it's a sort of standing joke that a true Turrican fan will welcome the large size where as anyone who isn't will complain about it ;D. We've discussed the audio vertical movement business before, sinse that's for me always been one of the most revolutionary things about Mota, and I'm glad that will be expanded to something more complete. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Dark, Dark wrote: i do know exactly what you mean, though I've never played the nes batman game you mention (I have played the Mega drive one though. My reply: If I'm not mistaken that was a port or remake of the original NES version to the Mega Drive wasn't it? Dark wrote: The game is simple, and the game's goal, blow up enemies, find power ups, look for the exit, is equally simple, however the execution of this is far more complex simply because the levels are such huge mazes. My reply: So I gather. Of course I wasn't planning on making Mysteries of the Ancients quite so large. Obviously, since the inspiration is Tomb Raider I expect the levels will be more on par with the Tomb Raider side-scrollers like Nightmare Stone and Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. Dark wrote: As i said, shades of doom deffinately shared some of this feeling, particularly in not being restricted in progress, but I've yet to see an audio side scroller that even comes close. My reply: Yeah, I haven't seen one either. Part of it is up until now most side-scrollers like Super Liam, Tarzan Junior, Q9, etc were restricted to a 1d platform run/jump left/right type format. Mysteries of the Ancients at least offers a virticle movement allowing me to create some very large levels both left/right and up/down. Should be interesting. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
on the subject of nes, I know you can get the music for nes stuff. I am not sure about copywrites for it though, but if you cared to you could use it and stuff. duckhunt by lworks, makes me feel I am playing on a machine of yesteryear. At 12:50 p.m. 22/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Dark, Dark wrote: i do know exactly what you mean, though I've never played the nes batman game you mention (I have played the Mega drive one though. My reply: If I'm not mistaken that was a port or remake of the original NES version to the Mega Drive wasn't it? Dark wrote: The game is simple, and the game's goal, blow up enemies, find power ups, look for the exit, is equally simple, however the execution of this is far more complex simply because the levels are such huge mazes. My reply: So I gather. Of course I wasn't planning on making Mysteries of the Ancients quite so large. Obviously, since the inspiration is Tomb Raider I expect the levels will be more on par with the Tomb Raider side-scrollers like Nightmare Stone and Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. Dark wrote: As i said, shades of doom deffinately shared some of this feeling, particularly in not being restricted in progress, but I've yet to see an audio side scroller that even comes close. My reply: Yeah, I haven't seen one either. Part of it is up until now most side-scrollers like Super Liam, Tarzan Junior, Q9, etc were restricted to a 1d platform run/jump left/right type format. Mysteries of the Ancients at least offers a virticle movement allowing me to create some very large levels both left/right and up/down. Should be interesting. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
If you knew anything about Thomas Ward's integrity and his effort to keep us all abreast of the status of his work, you wouldn't have even posted that. It could be considered flaming, to say the least. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: "burakyuksek" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi, Out of topic but where is USA raceway? Is this developing or is this a ver'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'y big lie? sevgiler saygilar - Original Message - From: "Tom Randall" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Well speaking for myself I agree with the person who said we are dealing with an imperfect situation here. I too am one of those who purchased the preorder from Alchemy way back in the day which by the way I never do and never will again other than for mainstream titles, but this game just sounded too cool. When Alchemy went away I was fully prepared to eat my 35 bucks or whatever it was. I was totally jazzed when Tom took the project over. Sure it is frustrating having to wait several years for this to turn out, but frankly anyone who gives Tom a hard time about this has a heck of a lot of nerve in my view, because 99 times out of a hundred they'd've just been out the 35 bucks and that would have been that. So Tom, do it the way you want to, I've waited this long I can wait a little longer. as you surely know by now you're never gonna please everyone no matter what you do so you may as well do it the way you want to. You've put a lot of sweat into this project and it should be something you're proud of when you are done. Best, Tom -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:32 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Shaun, Yeah. Thing is most of them have no clue what is like to create a multipurpose game engine and then still produce a game at the same time. It would be kind of like writing BGT and Q9 at the same time. Since MOTA requires the G3D Engine there is no question which product comes first, but having the engine more or less ready for production now will mean I can crank out games in under a year. It just requires that piece of software I didn't have two or three years ago, and I happened to have to write by hand because there was no BGT to purchase at the time. Cheers! On 1/20/11, shaun everiss wrote: well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to game
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Well said. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Ben" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels I agree completely with the right honourable gentlemans statement. Tom. Do what you want, and be proud of it. If you get reasonable feedback from the community for reasonable changes, make them happen if you wish. no one is forcing you to do anything at all. And as was said, you can't please everyone. Just be pleased yourself that you've done a great job - all the blood sweat and tears you've put into this should count for something on your part. Well done, and keep going with it! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Dark, Dark wrote: i do know exactly what you mean, though I've never played the nes batman game you mention (I have played the Mega drive one though. My reply: If I'm not mistaken that was a port or remake of the original NES version to the Mega Drive wasn't it? Dark wrote: The game is simple, and the game's goal, blow up enemies, find power ups, look for the exit, is equally simple, however the execution of this is far more complex simply because the levels are such huge mazes. My reply: So I gather. Of course I wasn't planning on making Mysteries of the Ancients quite so large. Obviously, since the inspiration is Tomb Raider I expect the levels will be more on par with the Tomb Raider side-scrollers like Nightmare Stone and Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. Dark wrote: As i said, shades of doom deffinately shared some of this feeling, particularly in not being restricted in progress, but I've yet to see an audio side scroller that even comes close. My reply: Yeah, I haven't seen one either. Part of it is up until now most side-scrollers like Super Liam, Tarzan Junior, Q9, etc were restricted to a 1d platform run/jump left/right type format. Mysteries of the Ancients at least offers a virticle movement allowing me to create some very large levels both left/right and up/down. Should be interesting. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
I agree completely with the right honourable gentlemans statement. Tom. Do what you want, and be proud of it. If you get reasonable feedback from the community for reasonable changes, make them happen if you wish. no one is forcing you to do anything at all. And as was said, you can't please everyone. Just be pleased yourself that you've done a great job - all the blood sweat and tears you've put into this should count for something on your part. Well done, and keep going with it! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi, Out of topic but where is USA raceway? Is this developing or is this a ver'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'r'y big lie? sevgiler saygilar - Original Message - From: "Tom Randall" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Well speaking for myself I agree with the person who said we are dealing with an imperfect situation here. I too am one of those who purchased the preorder from Alchemy way back in the day which by the way I never do and never will again other than for mainstream titles, but this game just sounded too cool. When Alchemy went away I was fully prepared to eat my 35 bucks or whatever it was. I was totally jazzed when Tom took the project over. Sure it is frustrating having to wait several years for this to turn out, but frankly anyone who gives Tom a hard time about this has a heck of a lot of nerve in my view, because 99 times out of a hundred they'd've just been out the 35 bucks and that would have been that. So Tom, do it the way you want to, I've waited this long I can wait a little longer. as you surely know by now you're never gonna please everyone no matter what you do so you may as well do it the way you want to. You've put a lot of sweat into this project and it should be something you're proud of when you are done. Best, Tom -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:32 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Shaun, Yeah. Thing is most of them have no clue what is like to create a multipurpose game engine and then still produce a game at the same time. It would be kind of like writing BGT and Q9 at the same time. Since MOTA requires the G3D Engine there is no question which product comes first, but having the engine more or less ready for production now will mean I can crank out games in under a year. It just requires that piece of software I didn't have two or three years ago, and I happened to have to write by hand because there was no BGT to purchase at the time. Cheers! On 1/20/11, shaun everiss wrote: well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Well speaking for myself I agree with the person who said we are dealing with an imperfect situation here. I too am one of those who purchased the preorder from Alchemy way back in the day which by the way I never do and never will again other than for mainstream titles, but this game just sounded too cool. When Alchemy went away I was fully prepared to eat my 35 bucks or whatever it was. I was totally jazzed when Tom took the project over. Sure it is frustrating having to wait several years for this to turn out, but frankly anyone who gives Tom a hard time about this has a heck of a lot of nerve in my view, because 99 times out of a hundred they'd've just been out the 35 bucks and that would have been that. So Tom, do it the way you want to, I've waited this long I can wait a little longer. as you surely know by now you're never gonna please everyone no matter what you do so you may as well do it the way you want to. You've put a lot of sweat into this project and it should be something you're proud of when you are done. Best, Tom -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:32 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Shaun, Yeah. Thing is most of them have no clue what is like to create a multipurpose game engine and then still produce a game at the same time. It would be kind of like writing BGT and Q9 at the same time. Since MOTA requires the G3D Engine there is no question which product comes first, but having the engine more or less ready for production now will mean I can crank out games in under a year. It just requires that piece of software I didn't have two or three years ago, and I happened to have to write by hand because there was no BGT to purchase at the time. Cheers! On 1/20/11, shaun everiss wrote: > well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. > That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be > fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat > at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and > years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the > waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part > really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. > But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they > payed for it!!! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Tom. i do know exactly what you mean, though I've never played the nes batman game you mention (I have played the Mega drive one though0. I do stil have games like Final fight and Double dragon and stick them on occasionally precisely for the reason of just wanting someone to thump, however I find with Turrican the experience is so radically different. The game is simple, and the game's goal, blow up enemies, find power ups, look for the exit, is equally simple, however the execution of this is far more complex simply because the levels are such huge mazes. I'll frequently start a stage, initially go the same way I've been before then think, ooo, what's that crack in the wall? or "do I go left or right here, which way did I go before?" or "Hold on, there's a ledge up there, how do I get up to it?" thus there is always new teretory to explore and a great sense of freedom, of being able to literally find my way anywhere in the level, not just going left to right as in most games. Quite often I'll work damn hard to get somewhere, then find it is a dead end, or fall down what I believe to be a secret passage only to discover an abyss and lose a life, -but that is Turrican for you, and whenever I see "game over" it actually makes me want to try the level again, to see if I can find more extra lives and power ups to keep me going. As i said, shades of doom deffinately shared some of this feeling, particularly in not being restricted in progress, but I've yet to see an audio side scroller that even comes close. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Dark, Dark wrote: This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. My reply: Yeah, I definitely know the feeling. There is a lot that can be said for the walk along blow-m-up or walk along beat-m-up game like Turrican. Just start the game and play with no better goal in mind than to blow up, beat up, or otherwise kill as many baddies as humanly possible. There were a number of games of this type for the NES and SNES, and they were surprisingly fun despite lacking a game story, cut scenes, whatever. Like I was saying to Phil over on the USA Games list my son recently got hooked on the 1989 Batman game for the original NES. It is still one of the top downloads for NES roms, and has been declared one of the top 10 games for the NES platform. Besides extremely sharp graphics and animations for the time the game play is fantastic. There isn't much to the stages other than walking along beating up the Joker's thugs, but all that is made up for a well balanced combat system. It is challenging and you have to figure out if taking out an enemy is better with fists, batarang, or a rocket. It is both simple but highly challenging at the same time. That spells great replay value that has lasted for 22 years. To get back to my point I often wish I could just load up a game like that and play it like I use to. MOTA is a great game, but puzzle solving etc take brain power. Sometimes you just want to ggo out there and slug it out with some baddies for the heck of it. Double Dragon, Batman, and games of that sort give you that relief. You don't have to think about it, but can just punch, kick, and fight your way through the levels until you take on the big boss man. Dark wrote: There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of ledge, hit single jump button. Compare this to the fluidity and sense of freedom in a game like Turrican, Metroid, or even something like original mega man, and the difference is astronomical. My reply: Yes, you are definitely right. That's one thing I was hoping to avoid with Mysteries of the Ancients. The game mechanics are just a little too automatic for my liking, and I want something a little more fluid and challenging. If you don't hold down the jump keys long enough poor Angela gets dumped in a fire, lava pit, lands on some spikes, etc. Jump too far and she over shoots a ledge and falls
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Jacob, as I said appologies. usualy I try not to discuss low vision games on an audio gaming list precisely for this reason, however in this case I felt the contrast was important. As to your friends, tell them to try http://www.turricanforever.de/ that site has all information about the game, all the extra levels and details on how to run them, pluss details of other Turrican windows remakes such as the graphically extremely appealing and very complex hurrican, which has features like more weapons, more puzles, more up to date graphics and more complex gameplay. Also, for a really nice experience you might want to check the soundbase there, sinse music has always been a major part of Turrican, and there are about as many fan produced music tracks as there are levels for the game, many of which are absolutely amazing! if I ever have the time to tinker with bgt and do something side scroller like, I actually had a plan to have a go at audio Turrican, especially sinse the creator has given permission for the original sounds, and name to be used in remakes so long as they are free, assuming Tom doesn't beat me to it first of course ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels No worries - was just wondering, and will, honestly most likely pass this on to some of my sighted friends, who might appreciate it, but FWIW, I am 100% blind, so I'll stick to other, entirely audio games... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels T2002, like original Turrican is an entirely graphical game. If you have enough vision to play 2D side scrollers with symplistic high contrast graphics, it is quite accessible, especially sinse you can alter the in game options by just edditing the conf file in notepad however, if you don't have this degree of vision the answer is a resounding no, and it's very unlikely that it will ever be so, one reason why I'm so interested in having a similar experience accessible to everyone. I'm very sorry if I didn't make this point clear in the initial male. I am indeed registered blind, but have some residual vision which I've been using to play some graphical games for years. i cannot read print (which puts out a lot of games), nor can I play things which are complex and 3D, sinse the spacial relations with lack of vision get far too much, but i am lucky enough that I can stil play games like Turrican, prince of persia, mega man and Mario. I'm sorry if this wans't absolutely clear from my first message. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Dark, Dark wrote: This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. My reply: Yeah, I definitely know the feeling. There is a lot that can be said for the walk along blow-m-up or walk along beat-m-up game like Turrican. Just start the game and play with no better goal in mind than to blow up, beat up, or otherwise kill as many baddies as humanly possible. There were a number of games of this type for the NES and SNES, and they were surprisingly fun despite lacking a game story, cut scenes, whatever. Like I was saying to Phil over on the USA Games list my son recently got hooked on the 1989 Batman game for the original NES. It is still one of the top downloads for NES roms, and has been declared one of the top 10 games for the NES platform. Besides extremely sharp graphics and animations for the time the game play is fantastic. There isn't much to the stages other than walking along beating up the Joker's thugs, but all that is made up for a well balanced combat system. It is challenging and you have to figure out if taking out an enemy is better with fists, batarang, or a rocket. It is both simple but highly challenging at the same time. That spells great replay value that has lasted for 22 years. To get back to my point I often wish I could just load up a game like that and play it like I use to. MOTA is a great game, but puzzle solving etc take brain power. Sometimes you just want to ggo out there and slug it out with some baddies for the heck of it. Double Dragon, Batman, and games of that sort give you that relief. You don't have to think about it, but can just punch, kick, and fight your way through the levels until you take on the big boss man. Dark wrote: There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of ledge, hit single jump button. Compare this to the fluidity and sense of freedom in a game like Turrican, Metroid, or even something like original mega man, and the difference is astronomical. My reply: Yes, you are definitely right. That's one thing I was hoping to avoid with Mysteries of the Ancients. The game mechanics are just a little too automatic for my liking, and I want something a little more fluid and challenging. If you don't hold down the jump keys long enough poor Angela gets dumped in a fire, lava pit, lands on some spikes, etc. Jump too far and she over shoots a ledge and falls screaming to her death. These things are not at all unusual for mainstream games of the type you mentioned, but are almost non-existent in audio games. Its time to change that. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Ok, fair enough...LOL! I copied game names from prior email, and pasted them into google search box, and that's how I found that page, FWIW. Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels It's actually a C, not a G. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
No worries - was just wondering, and will, honestly most likely pass this on to some of my sighted friends, who might appreciate it, but FWIW, I am 100% blind, so I'll stick to other, entirely audio games... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels T2002, like original Turrican is an entirely graphical game. If you have enough vision to play 2D side scrollers with symplistic high contrast graphics, it is quite accessible, especially sinse you can alter the in game options by just edditing the conf file in notepad however, if you don't have this degree of vision the answer is a resounding no, and it's very unlikely that it will ever be so, one reason why I'm so interested in having a similar experience accessible to everyone. I'm very sorry if I didn't make this point clear in the initial male. I am indeed registered blind, but have some residual vision which I've been using to play some graphical games for years. i cannot read print (which puts out a lot of games), nor can I play things which are complex and 3D, sinse the spacial relations with lack of vision get far too much, but i am lucky enough that I can stil play games like Turrican, prince of persia, mega man and Mario. I'm sorry if this wans't absolutely clear from my first message. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
It's actually a C, not a G. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts that push you along (often into hazards like crushers or flames which will damage you). But why am I mentioning all this (especially about a game which most people on this list will not be able to play), because it's this! that I would love to see in an audio side scroller. Freedom of movement, exploration, a system of jumping physics which actually requires you to get used to and practice with, and traps which similarly need some work from t
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
T2002, like original Turrican is an entirely graphical game. If you have enough vision to play 2D side scrollers with symplistic high contrast graphics, it is quite accessible, especially sinse you can alter the in game options by just edditing the conf file in notepad however, if you don't have this degree of vision the answer is a resounding no, and it's very unlikely that it will ever be so, one reason why I'm so interested in having a similar experience accessible to everyone. I'm very sorry if I didn't make this point clear in the initial male. I am indeed registered blind, but have some residual vision which I've been using to play some graphical games for years. i cannot read print (which puts out a lot of games), nor can I play things which are complex and 3D, sinse the spacial relations with lack of vision get far too much, but i am lucky enough that I can stil play games like Turrican, prince of persia, mega man and Mario. I'm sorry if this wans't absolutely clear from my first message. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts that push you along (often into hazards like crushers or flames which will damage you). But why am I mentioning all this (especially about a game which most people on this list will not be able to play), because it's this! that I would love to see in an audio side scroller. Freedom of movement, exploration, a system of jumping physics which actually requires you to get used to and practice with, and traps which similarly need some work from the player to avoid. There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of l
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts that push you along (often into hazards like crushers or flames which will damage you). But why am I mentioning all this (especially about a game which most people on this list will not be able to play), because it's this! that I would love to see in an audio side scroller. Freedom of movement, exploration, a system of jumping physics which actually requires you to get used to and practice with, and traps which similarly need some work from the player to avoid. There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of ledge, hit single jump button. Compare this to the fluidity and sense of freedom in a game like Turrican, Metroid, or even something like original mega man, and the difference is astronomical. I'm absolutely certain it's possible to have this sort of experience in audio, but nobody has done it in 2D yet, though I will admit that Shades of doom and sarah have indeed managed it in 3D (one reason why I became interested in audio games in the first place, s
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Dark, Dark wrote: Take a look at this table. it lists the number of screen or rooms in each level for snes prince of persia, and the number of enemies found on those levels. My reply: Yeah, i just did. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The mainstream games I've played like Prince of Persia is way more complex than MOTA. There are several more rooms, enemies, and the traps in Prince of Persia are totally awesome. The metal jaw trap is one of the cooler ones that come to mind. That's why when I held my Logitech game pad in my hands playing through MOTA the thought occured to me that I'm totally dissatisfied with the game. It was in a word "lame." I played better games than this. I played games for the Atari, NES, and SNES, that I couldn't put down. the replay value in some of the mainstream games was fantastic, and I started to think about what gave those games replay value. Complex Traps --- All of the games I like from Prince of Persia to Tomb Raider make extensive use of difficult traps like vanishing platforms, spinning gears, rolling bolders, you name it. You usually can't just press jump and avoid that trap. You have to try a number of times to actually get past it. Puzzle Elements This can be anything from a certain key or lever that unlocks door x to something more safisticated. I'll have to take a bit of look at some common puzzles to come up with a cool list of these to employ here. Level Design --- Nobody expects a walk along beat-m-up like Batman or Double Dragon to employ mazes. However, games in the Prince of Persia, Montezuma's Revenge, Tomb Raider genre often use some bit of a maze type level to get around. It is a widely excepted part of that style of game genre. Dark wrote: As for map design, I'd personallly say write all new ones, - afterall, montizumas revenge is a completely separate game afterall. My reply: Good point. I was just asking since a lot of people preordered expecting Montezuma's Revenge and thought I'd throw that idea out there for those maybe looking for something a bit similar. Dark wrote: Rather than just dumping the work you've got thus far though, how about keeping the original first level, sinse it provides a very good and easy intro to the game, but then afterwards getting creative with the mazes etc. My reply: Well, there are both practical and technical reasons I don't want to do this. On the technical side of things I setup and initialize the size of my array etc to make every level a fixed size I.E. same width and height. I can't go from a 300 by 20 level to a 100 by 100 level in the same game. Therefore what Ineed to do is set a standard format for the levels and draw the maps according to that format. On the practical side I just plane don't like the first two levels of MOTA. Oh, they are okay, but I know they could be better. Make sense? Besides creating new levels is the easy and fun part. What took me so darned long before was all the low-level stuff that goes into an engine like base classes, input support, a window manager, audio support, and so on. Getting that stuff out of the way is a huge load off my shoulders, and now I can actually work on the game for real now. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Shaun, Yeah. Thing is most of them have no clue what is like to create a multipurpose game engine and then still produce a game at the same time. It would be kind of like writing BGT and Q9 at the same time. Since MOTA requires the G3D Engine there is no question which product comes first, but having the engine more or less ready for production now will mean I can crank out games in under a year. It just requires that piece of software I didn't have two or three years ago, and I happened to have to write by hand because there was no BGT to purchase at the time. Cheers! On 1/20/11, shaun everiss wrote: > well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. > That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. > TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your > throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. > These people have waited years and years for this game or games. > I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. > This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks > and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. > But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they > payed for it!!! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi I to am more then happy to give him that time as well. from Mich. - Original Message - From: "Michael Feir" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels What we have here is an imperfect situation. I can absolutely sympathise with people's eagerness to just get the game. I'm one of those who pre-ordered the original game when I didn't even have to. James North would likely have given me a free copy to review for Audyssey but I wanted to show my support for this particular project of his. I'm out just as much as everyone else but I know when I see a masterpiece in the making. A little more patience and moral support from all of us now could yield far more entertainment that we'll get in the final product. The changes he's thinking of here will add many happy hours or even weeks of fun to people's ultimate experience of the game. Additionally, Tom will be more satisfied with his creation and we'll have a better artist for that going forward as he tackles Raceway and other projects. There's never been a situation quite like this and I doubt we'll see such again. I'd like to see this turn into the very best game that it can for the time, patience, money and upheaval we've all gone through over this project. What's another month or even three months when you consider how much time has already been invested? Instead of just taking the easy way out, Tom offers us something better and all he asks in return is some patience. I for one am more than happy to give him that time. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if > that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to ga
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
true mike. To know you actually ordered the game and are happy to wait an extra month may just mean something to those that think of complaining. I should again congratulate tom on being as open has he is with everying down to ideas. While he doesn't post every week if something needs it he does. True for a well he nursed things along by posting every month till people had trust now he just posts when ever but now we trust him mostly and so we don't mind the waits. At 12:40 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: What we have here is an imperfect situation. I can absolutely sympathise with people's eagerness to just get the game. I'm one of those who pre-ordered the original game when I didn't even have to. James North would likely have given me a free copy to review for Audyssey but I wanted to show my support for this particular project of his. I'm out just as much as everyone else but I know when I see a masterpiece in the making. A little more patience and moral support from all of us now could yield far more entertainment that we'll get in the final product. The changes he's thinking of here will add many happy hours or even weeks of fun to people's ultimate experience of the game. Additionally, Tom will be more satisfied with his creation and we'll have a better artist for that going forward as he tackles Raceway and other projects. There's never been a situation quite like this and I doubt we'll see such again. I'd like to see this turn into the very best game that it can for the time, patience, money and upheaval we've all gone through over this project. What's another month or even three months when you consider how much time has already been invested? Instead of just taking the easy way out, Tom offers us something better and all he asks in return is some patience. I for one am more than happy to give him that time. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to w
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
thats true. However if anything can be salvaged from this although the games are not tom's ideas it should enable tom to show off what spin he can put on stuff in general. I support him as allways but I can understand other user standpoint. I am having issue with a new reader upgrade and I am almost at wits end if I hadn't got training to solve issues I'd probably be swearing at someone about now. At 12:27 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: People that complain while it's being developed may be a bit frustrating/irritating, but it's more important that when you finally do release what you consider as a final version, that noone can then really complain about the product as a whole - but on the other hand, you will most likely then also get people complaining that either it's more than/not what they expected, or not the same as they were hoping for. Another (silly) saying among some developers is that the only completely satisfied end-user can be yourself, since even what we call identical twins aren't 100% the same all the way through - as in each and every person in the world/universe will always have a slightly differing opinion regarding products, outcomes, reasons for things happening, the way they were carried out, etc. etc. What it comes down to is, you need to make sure you're satisfied with the whole process, and the resulting product, etc., and then other people's opinions/take thereof will in fact be useful/of interest. Anyway, I'll shut my mouth now, but, you get my drift... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that makes sense. Stay well Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Tom. I think creating all new maps would be good that way you could put your own ideas in to what the levels should look like where as if you have a set level structure then you would not have that much control on how the levels were laid out. I think that this would make the game more exciting so in short go for it. from Mich. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:51 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
hi thomas, Personally, I think you should do what you can do best, because you know it will compensate for the public in the end. Professionally, My public listen to me enough to know that if i say they have to wait, it is for their own good. We at the blind games brazil community have a wonderful relation with our people, and the vast majority of them understands us when we request them to wait for something. Plus, they will be calmed down with beta 17, as we discussed. thanks, Mauricio almeida -Mensagem original- De: "Liam Erven" Para: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Data: Quarta, 19 de Janeiro de 2011 22:53 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels I'd start with simple levels to ease the player in to the game, and start ramping up the difficulty as you go. You may even want to make level 1 just a few rooms with a few ladders so that the gamer can actually get used to the controlls and navigating before you throw a maze at them. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:52 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.o
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
What we have here is an imperfect situation. I can absolutely sympathise with people's eagerness to just get the game. I'm one of those who pre-ordered the original game when I didn't even have to. James North would likely have given me a free copy to review for Audyssey but I wanted to show my support for this particular project of his. I'm out just as much as everyone else but I know when I see a masterpiece in the making. A little more patience and moral support from all of us now could yield far more entertainment that we'll get in the final product. The changes he's thinking of here will add many happy hours or even weeks of fun to people's ultimate experience of the game. Additionally, Tom will be more satisfied with his creation and we'll have a better artist for that going forward as he tackles Raceway and other projects. There's never been a situation quite like this and I doubt we'll see such again. I'd like to see this turn into the very best game that it can for the time, patience, money and upheaval we've all gone through over this project. What's another month or even three months when you consider how much time has already been invested? Instead of just taking the easy way out, Tom offers us something better and all he asks in return is some patience. I for one am more than happy to give him that time. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any que
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
People that complain while it's being developed may be a bit frustrating/irritating, but it's more important that when you finally do release what you consider as a final version, that noone can then really complain about the product as a whole - but on the other hand, you will most likely then also get people complaining that either it's more than/not what they expected, or not the same as they were hoping for. Another (silly) saying among some developers is that the only completely satisfied end-user can be yourself, since even what we call identical twins aren't 100% the same all the way through - as in each and every person in the world/universe will always have a slightly differing opinion regarding products, outcomes, reasons for things happening, the way they were carried out, etc. etc. What it comes down to is, you need to make sure you're satisfied with the whole process, and the resulting product, etc., and then other people's opinions/take thereof will in fact be useful/of interest. Anyway, I'll shut my mouth now, but, you get my drift... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that makes sense. Stay well Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
aggreed with you liam. At 05:53 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: I'd start with simple levels to ease the player in to the game, and start ramping up the difficulty as you go. You may even want to make level 1 just a few rooms with a few ladders so that the gamer can actually get used to the controlls and navigating before you throw a maze at them. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:52 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched a
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
tom, part of me would like the complex maps. However not exactly like mota. in level1, there are a couple chasm traps, and a lava trap. Or is that a fire trap. Ok, simple, but good for starters. You could add that the chasms had lava or spikes in them or both. Burning ropes? Well if we put them in then we would have to have ropes in areas you didn't need to ever go up again. ie in level2, where you need to jump down a rope to get some items you could have a burning rope, since you don't need to go back. I am not sure about vanishing platforms but with bridges and such like the one in level2 you could have it that once over it the bridge would have to go back up and well. I usually run across it so you could time it for a bit I guess. You could also set the statues to automatically lock again aafter you unlock them and open em but then you couldn't have monsters in the enterence point of a room they would have to be in the end or something so the player would have time to run through. At this stage though I think you should just finnish the game, ofcause if like the origional monti, you had platforms and portals that would rock. You could have other ways to do things in say level2 chasm, you can pull the bridge or wait for a platform, each platform is obviously say 2 jumps wide, this one would be say 3-4 jumps. In the middle of that platform could be a portal. if you jumped to the right place then the platform vannished you would fall into the chasm but enter the portal, you then could have a bonus level where you picked up items. at the end of that level could be lava which you would jump into, and then enter another portal. you could then be at the end of the chasm on the other side say 3 steps from the edge or a couple meters. Ofcause this portal would have to be semi random or the items could be. You could choose to jump things or just do a couple jumps portal then get things with the potentual to get something. However I'd fall short of being to haisty on modifications. You really need like 20 levels for what I am thinking about. 1/2 keep the same every level after 2 add a new trap or whatever. till say 12, add more monsters and things maybe places to jump. Another idea is to get unlockable traps. You can find a trap, say the spikes in level2. If you jumped one sets then jumped the second but immediately say within a 5 second period steped back onto the spike you could get it or get something falling which you could get. It would probably work better for the blade. you could jump the blade or whatever. if you walked over the blade while hitting enter, well if you didn't have the sword you could get that if you already have that you could get more power added to this you could make some bosses more powerfull. Ofcause you couldn't just hit walk and enter, say a combo like alt control right shift and enter once over the blade you would have 5 secs to do that else you died or something. However you may just like to do stuff as it is and make say an expantion pack for mota, I think a lot of people aspecially for those that have been waiting for the origional game for a while. Right now as it is I think its ok. At 05:51 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOT
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Personally, I've been waiting this long and have no problem with you taking the time to add these puzzle elements into the game. I'll certainly understand completely if you decide to bow to pressure from people less patient and more short-sighted about this. God knows you and your wife have been stretched on the rack and then some by this project.. However, please consider; The more such elements you can add to it, the greater replay value the game will have and the more paying customers you'll ultimately get for it as word spreads over time of the game's higher quality. Take the time you need to do the best sidescroller you can and you won't find yourself looking back later as a dissatisfied artist. I've been there and done that with some of my creative projects over the years. You'll also emmencely please folks like me who have been keenly following your work from day one. Due to the level of preorders you have to honour, you won't make as much money on this project as others you do in future. However, you should look at this as a chance to show us the kind of work we can expect from you as you pursue your own ideas. Take the time to do it right and people will come to your defence when others less patient give you a rough time. You've come an incredibly long way indeed since that easter weekend I remember when you were on the verge of packing it in. As a fellow creator and due to my having edited Audyssey for so many years, I have a deep admiration and appreciation of how far you've come on this journey as a person. You give me an example of someone to point to when people say that the best years of accessible games are behind us. Only you can ultimately decide what's best in this situation. You'll likely take flack either way unless people have been paying attention and have learned something of patience and respect over the past while. I hope you'll find the strength and persevereance to go that extra mile. Either way though, you've won me over as a supporter. Best of luck to you Tom. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:51 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of tr
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi tom. Despite the extra time I really do think more complex levels are worth it. Takee a look at this table. it lists the number of screen or rooms in each level for snes prince of persia, and the number of enemies found on those levels. bare in mind that each screen has three levels, so for vertical hight you can just about multiply each number by 3. Level Sections-- LevelEnemies --- 1125--10 8 224-- 2 7 424--12 6 824--18 6 1224--16 5 1824--19 5 1924-- 4 4 123-- 6 4 323-- 8 4 623--11 4 723--13 4 1323--15 4 1423-- 3 3 1523-- 7 3 1623-- 9 3 519--14 3 1019-- 1 2 916-- 5 2 17 7--17 1 20 6--20 1 --- Total 418-- Total 79 Ignoring the number of enemies thing (sinse afterall, prince of persia was never a really serious fighting game, this does show the sort of size of a complex comparable game to Mota, and I think you'll agree that something far larger is needed. Also I completely agree on traps, in fact it's the traps and puzles aspect that really occurs to me most when I think of this genre. As for map design, I'd personallly say write all new ones, - afterall, montizumas revenge is a completely separate game afterall. Rather than just dumping the work you've got thus far though, how about keeping the original first level, sinse it provides a very good and easy intro to the game, but then afterwards getting creative with the mazes etc. All the best, Dark. --- - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:51 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi, Well, there is a good reason for that. Some of the sounds were borrowed from Montezuma's Revenge which is what this game started out as before the copyright problem. Others were added for this game specifically. Others are there because they show up in a later level, but aren't present in levels 1 or 2. Smile. On 1/20/11, Alfredo_The_Music_maker wrote: > Hello, > I have opened the list of files in MOTA, and it sounds like many of the > sounds were made before the game was started. The sounds go as far as > level ten, and there are sounds for the ambiance of sand, water, and > ground. most of them are not implemented yet. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hello, I have opened the list of files in MOTA, and it sounds like many of the sounds were made before the game was started. The sounds go as far as level ten, and there are sounds for the ambiance of sand, water, and ground. most of them are not implemented yet. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that makes sense. Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:51 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi I am up for the challenge of harder levels and more traps it will make the game more interesting. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 8:51 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Liam, Well, that goes without saying. Even with a game like Montezuma's Revenge they started out with a simple maze, simple traps, easy enemies, and slowly introduced more difficult mazes and enemies as you went along. However, the puzzle element and maze element was still there. Just toned down for the first couple of levels or so. My idea is similar. Basically, you would start off with a simple maze, and from there the mazes and puzzle elements would get harder. Either that or include more difficult traps and enemies. Either way would progressively get more difficult in one way or another. However, the main thing is that I decide on a format now so that I can add x number of rooms and x number of floors to the game for each level. Cheers! On 1/19/11, Liam Erven wrote: > I'd start with simple levels to ease the player in to the game, and start > ramping up the difficulty as you go. > You may even want to make level 1 just a few rooms with a few ladders so > that the gamer can actually get used to the controlls and navigating before > you throw a maze at them. > > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
I'd start with simple levels to ease the player in to the game, and start ramping up the difficulty as you go. You may even want to make level 1 just a few rooms with a few ladders so that the gamer can actually get used to the controlls and navigating before you throw a maze at them. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:52 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
