Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate you for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some of his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim you've beaten Q9 on insane? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
hi i agree with this, the game needs to be hard inuff on the harder levels to make it challinging but also it needs to be beetable. Ian McNamara. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Clement, Good points, all of them. I see your point. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Hi, > That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit > exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit > too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of > saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it > today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Yohandy > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 > version 1.2. > > Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of > Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate > you > > for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some > of > > his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games > that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost > unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard > that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim > you've beaten Q9 on insane? > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller?- Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Clement? Bit confused are we? :P - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller?- Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Clement, Good points, all of them. I see your point. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate you for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some of his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim you've beaten Q9 on insane? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Uh... where did you get the idea Yohandy was me? lol. My views are somewhat opposite, actually. True, games have to be easier, but that doesn't mean what you describe is unbeatable, Yohandy. This is where one generally resorts to hit and run tactics... in sengoku basara 3, as an example, I was playing a character wielding two blades. I ran forward and got caught up in a group of 15 or so enemies... all of whom wanted my blood. What do you do? You pick a couple off, run back or leap over an attack and attack as you come down and take out another one. Simple ideas like that work, and if there's a pit behind the nearest crowd of goons, jump over it, use a projectile weapon and nail them as they come following you. I've almost beat the insane difficulty... not quite yet, but not far from it either. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Yohandy, Designing difficulty levels is not as easy as it may seem to the player. In Q9, as simple a game as it is, still has almost 25 different variables that need to be adjusted and balanced for a difficulty level. This includes the size of pits, the speed of each enemy, the attack power of each, etc etc. I do agree that the insane difficulty level is much too hard, but I want to point out the challenge in balancing the various difficulty levels in games like these. With the recent changes that are coming soon, the game has been made a little easier over-all which should make it possible to beat it on more difficulty levels; especially with the increase of the club attack speed and the laser being available in the actual game. Now if the conclusion is still that insane is unbeatable, I may just remove it. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate you for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some of his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard th
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi, Yep. Lots of email to go through in one evening. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:51 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Clement, Good points, all of them. I see your point. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Hi, > That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit > exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit > too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of > saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it > today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Yohandy > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 > version 1.2. > > Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of > Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate > you > > for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some > of > > his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games > that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost > unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard > that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim > you've beaten Q9 on insane? > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Phillip. Now, I have a question. It seems to me that if you want to balance the game, and if the problem with enemies is that there are too many of them, could you, say, add an attack for the player that his everything on screen and knocks them back to give a bit of breathing room, but costs say a little bit of health? That's what beat em ups used to do, and it works well, IMO. A big attack, but you need to sacrifice some life for it... but that also means health pickups might need to come up more frequently on harder difficulties. At 07:14 PM 03/11/2010, you wrote: Hi Yohandy, Designing difficulty levels is not as easy as it may seem to the player. In Q9, as simple a game as it is, still has almost 25 different variables that need to be adjusted and balanced for a difficulty level. This includes the size of pits, the speed of each enemy, the attack power of each, etc etc. I do agree that the insane difficulty level is much too hard, but I want to point out the challenge in balancing the various difficulty levels in games like these. With the recent changes that are coming soon, the game has been made a little easier over-all which should make it possible to beat it on more difficulty levels; especially with the increase of the club attack speed and the laser being available in the actual game. Now if the conclusion is still that insane is unbeatable, I may just remove it. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 0
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller?-Re:Q9 version 1.2.
I certainly understand Philip. and my email wasn't necessarily targeted at your games, but since your q9 thread started the discussion I just used them as an example. can't wait to try out the new changes! I'd ask how can we unlock the laser, but you'll probably be evil and not tell us hahaha. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller?-Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Yohandy, Designing difficulty levels is not as easy as it may seem to the player. In Q9, as simple a game as it is, still has almost 25 different variables that need to be adjusted and balanced for a difficulty level. This includes the size of pits, the speed of each enemy, the attack power of each, etc etc. I do agree that the insane difficulty level is much too hard, but I want to point out the challenge in balancing the various difficulty levels in games like these. With the recent changes that are coming soon, the game has been made a little easier over-all which should make it possible to beat it on more difficulty levels; especially with the increase of the club attack speed and the laser being available in the actual game. Now if the conclusion is still that insane is unbeatable, I may just remove it. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Yohandy" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 3:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Sorry to get on the case... just one comment then I'll drop it. How do you get our names confused if they don't even look the same? lol. At 07:17 PM 03/11/2010, you wrote: Hi, Yep. Lots of email to go through in one evening. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:51 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Clement, Good points, all of them. I see your point. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Hi, > That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit > exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit > too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of > saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it > today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Yohandy > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 > version 1.2. > > Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of > Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate > you > > for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some > of > > his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games > that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost > unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard > that no one can beat? how
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
yeah, but the points you mentioned aren't exactly available in q9 are they? lol. If I had such acrobatic maneuvers available to me in the game it would actually be doable. remember I was specifically referring to audio games where you don't always get to make such decisions. in fact I can't think of a single one where you can do what you described. lol - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Uh... where did you get the idea Yohandy was me? lol. My views are somewhat opposite, actually. True, games have to be easier, but that doesn't mean what you describe is unbeatable, Yohandy. This is where one generally resorts to hit and run tactics... in sengoku basara 3, as an example, I was playing a character wielding two blades. I ran forward and got caught up in a group of 15 or so enemies... all of whom wanted my blood. What do you do? You pick a couple off, run back or leap over an attack and attack as you come down and take out another one. Simple ideas like that work, and if there's a pit behind the nearest crowd of goons, jump over it, use a projectile weapon and nail them as they come following you. I've almost beat the insane difficulty... not quite yet, but not far from it either. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Lol wouldn't be the first time someone confuses my name with a totally random one hahaha. think I was Tom at some point. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Sorry to get on the case... just one comment then I'll drop it. How do you get our names confused if they don't even look the same? lol. At 07:17 PM 03/11/2010, you wrote: Hi, Yep. Lots of email to go through in one evening. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:51 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Clement, Good points, all of them. I see your point. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message ----- From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Hi, > That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit > exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a > bit > too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of > saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it > today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as > well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] > On > Behalf Of Yohandy > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: > Q9 > version 1.2. > > Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of > Philip's games on insane, beta t
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
See Clement? This is why I respect your ideas. In fact if this happens we probably wouldn't even need the laser. I also agree that we'd need more health items. that's actually part of the problem. Items generate at the same rate on any difficulties. Man you're a genius. Hopefully Philip will implement this if gun ends up not being sufficient, which I doubt. We can't make the gun too powerful though, else game will become too easy. lol, I don't envy Philip's programming work right about now... Tweaking must be a tough beast to tame. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Philip Bennefall" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Phillip. Now, I have a question. It seems to me that if you want to balance the game, and if the problem with enemies is that there are too many of them, could you, say, add an attack for the player that his everything on screen and knocks them back to give a bit of breathing room, but costs say a little bit of health? That's what beat em ups used to do, and it works well, IMO. A big attack, but you need to sacrifice some life for it... but that also means health pickups might need to come up more frequently on harder difficulties. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Well, there aren't too many games to choose from, so I can't exactly name one, true. lol. At 07:37 PM 03/11/2010, you wrote: yeah, but the points you mentioned aren't exactly available in q9 are they? lol. If I had such acrobatic maneuvers available to me in the game it would actually be doable. remember I was specifically referring to audio games where you don't always get to make such decisions. in fact I can't think of a single one where you can do what you described. lol - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Uh... where did you get the idea Yohandy was me? lol. My views are somewhat opposite, actually. True, games have to be easier, but that doesn't mean what you describe is unbeatable, Yohandy. This is where one generally resorts to hit and run tactics... in sengoku basara 3, as an example, I was playing a character wielding two blades. I ran forward and got caught up in a group of 15 or so enemies... all of whom wanted my blood. What do you do? You pick a couple off, run back or leap over an attack and attack as you come down and take out another one. Simple ideas like that work, and if there's a pit behind the nearest crowd of goons, jump over it, use a projectile weapon and nail them as they come following you. I've almost beat the insane difficulty... not quite yet, but not far from it either. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Just a lot of gaming experience crammed into 19 years. Been playing games regularly since I was five starting on the SNES, and since then I've gone from everything from final fight up to Super Street Fighter IV and tekken 6. Trust me, that teaches you a lot. lol. And I think this would be easier than tweeking attack power of the enemies and whatnot. If you can keep them off you, attack power shouldn't need to be tweeked, right? And it wouldn't be hard to come up with imaginative circular attacks. Take that club, for example. Spin around and use your core muscles to swing that thing in real life and you could easily send four people to the hospital, if not straightthe to the grave. At 07:45 PM 03/11/2010, you wrote: See Clement? This is why I respect your ideas. In fact if this happens we probably wouldn't even need the laser. I also agree that we'd need more health items. that's actually part of the problem. Items generate at the same rate on any difficulties. Man you're a genius. Hopefully Philip will implement this if gun ends up not being sufficient, which I doubt. We can't make the gun too powerful though, else game will become too easy. lol, I don't envy Philip's programming work right about now... Tweaking must be a tough beast to tame. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Philip Bennefall" ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Phillip. Now, I have a question. It seems to me that if you want to balance the game, and if the problem with enemies is that there are too many of them, could you, say, add an attack for the player that his everything on screen and knocks them back to give a bit of breathing room, but costs say a little bit of health? That's what beat em ups used to do, and it works well, IMO. A big attack, but you need to sacrifice some life for it... but that also means health pickups might need to come up more frequently on harder difficulties. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
I agree Haiden. Were it the easy or normal difficulties which were too difficult, as in something like technoshock, then there would indeed be a problem, but insane is supposed to be, - well insane! Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate you for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some of his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim you've beaten Q9 on insane? - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Funnily enough haiden, I personally always thought of this as one of the games' strengths. I got through easy on the day I bought it (yes, I bought it before it went freeware), and was a trifle disappointed, but normal took me a degree more practice to beat and I've never done it on insane. for my money, this is actually how difficulties should be, so once you raise the difficulty, you need to raise your game to match. I also noticed philip seems to carry this on in his other games as well, in fact generally I'd say formulating difficulty levels seems to be one of philip's major strengths. beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Hi, My only criticism is the shear difference in level difficulties. I can beat easy, hands down, but I cannot beat normal at all. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 2:07 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. You should actually give it a try especially as it's free, you can get it from Tom's free games section. it was also produced by philip bennifall back when he was running pb games, and has various cool features like cut scenes and multiple weapons, pluss some rather fun bosses and obstacles. in fact I think my only major problem with the game is that while the side scrolling levels are rather fun, there are also none side scrolling levels which can vary in quality. one in particular is especially awsome (I'm thinking of the torgon battle here), but a couple of the others are rather less interesting. Stil, the game has far more good levels than bad ones imho. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 3:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. I have never played Tarzan Junior, so cannot comment on it. But all of the others are good side scrollers. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. I personally wouldn't like to choose. superliam is a great game with cutscenes etc, and is stil fun to play, in fact the same could be said for Tarzan junior, however Mota is a far more inervative game sinse it's practically speaking the first true 2D side scroller with significant use of vertical movement, also it's an adventure game not an arcade game. Q9 is simply a case of the concept of a side scrolling arcade game ala su
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Philip, Very good points. This has been one of the leading issues with Mysteries of the Ancients. Some people say it is too hard on beginner and completely unbeatable on expert. Others say beginner is far too easy. There are so many variables to take in account it is awefully difficult to balance it out so everyone finds it both challenging but not too hard. Case in point the traps. I myself don't believe in having ledges etc around the traps as I think that does make it to easy to know when a chasm, fire pit, lava pit, whatever is coming up. All the same people have been encurraging me to add more indication to know when a trap comes up so they can jump it. As of beta 15 I personally find the traps in MOTA way too easy so they are kind of pointless in my opinion, but people like them easy. One man's difficult is another man's easy. On 11/3/10, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > Designing difficulty levels is not as easy as it may seem to the player. In > Q9, as simple a game as it is, still has almost 25 different variables that > need to be adjusted and balanced for a difficulty level. This includes the > size of pits, the speed of each enemy, the attack power of each, etc etc. I > do agree that the insane difficulty level is much too hard, but I want to > point out the challenge in balancing the various difficulty levels in games > like these. With the recent changes that are coming soon, the game has been > made a little easier over-all which should make it possible to beat it on > more difficulty levels; especially with the increase of the club attack > speed and the laser being available in the actual game. Now if the > conclusion is still that insane is unbeatable, I may just remove it. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Thomas, I do like the warning at the edge of traps for several reasons. In a sighted game or in reality, you would know exactly how far you were away from a trap just by seeing it. Before the edge warning, I had to go into view, fine the specific trap and hit enter. The distance is in meters but I was moving in steps, so I would not know if 1 meter away was one step or two. So I would have to take a step and then go through the procedure until the trap was 0 away. This is time consuming and makes playing less fun. Plus I could not do this if there was any creatures attacking me in the room. If you prevent creatures from being in the same room as traps, it also lessens the fun aspect. With an edge warning I think it would be possible to fight creatures at the same time as jumping pits. Also if there was a hot key to tell you quickly how many steps to the edge of the nearest trap, then I would not need the edge warning. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Yohandy, Lol! Okay, 350 creatures, moving at 55 MPH, all attacking at once in 3d space? What do we call this skill level? Isn't that like the suicide level? Smile. Point well taken. i do know what you are saying, but developing skill levels is difficult for a developer in large part because there are so many variables to take into consideration. You have your hard core gamer who is good at playing games, and you have your gamers who are not so good at playing games. For example, I have not only played and beaten Shades of Doom I have beaten the game on the "Today is a Good Day to Die" level which is certainly hard to beat. A friend of mine can't even complete area 1 on "Can I Play Daddy," and should I as a developer take that as an indication the game is too hard? That's the very problem developers have to face. What is too easy for one person is beyond the abilities of another. Some people can't play Shades of Doom, say it is way too hard, when I found it pretty easy up until "Bring Them On" or so. Were I the developer of that game instead of GMA how would I know if the game is too easy or too hard? Cheers! On 11/3/10, Yohandy wrote: > I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too > difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out > for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an > example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point > during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at > full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without > taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we > can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at > once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump > away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also > remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just > gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point > we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, > only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that > side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a > difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. > Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties > that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. > even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a > multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature > that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't > lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if > developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test > it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to > test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's > doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether > someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I > could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at > 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will > ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then > what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game > difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game > setting. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Phil, In MOTA a meter is approxamately 3 steps although not quite given the conversion from feet into meters. Since you grew up with the standard American measurements like feet, inches, etc I imagine your confusion comes from trying to convert that in your head into meters. One possible solution here is to add an option to the game engine that allows Americans to select feet as the default mesurement when speaking distances and use meters for our international customers. What do you think? Anyway, I do understand your reasons for the trap warnings etc. My only problem is how do I make the traps difficult to jump over or avoid. In Tomb Raider some spike traps, for example, can't be jumped. You have to use a lever or something to lower them. i could do that, but that does require extra work too. On 11/4/10, Phil Vlasak wrote: > Hi Thomas, > I do like the warning at the edge of traps for several reasons. > In a sighted game or in reality, you would know exactly how far you were > away from a trap just by seeing it. > Before the edge warning, I had to go into view, fine the specific trap and > hit enter. > The distance is in meters but I was moving in steps, so I would not know if > 1 meter away was one step or two. > So I would have to take a step and then go through the procedure until the > trap was 0 away. > This is time consuming and makes playing less fun. > Plus I could not do this if there was any creatures attacking me in the > room. > If you prevent creatures from being in the same room as traps, it also > lessens the fun aspect. > With an edge warning I think it would be possible to fight creatures at the > same time as jumping pits. > Also if there was a hot key to tell you quickly how many steps to the edge > of the nearest trap, then I would not need the edge warning. > Phil > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Thomas, I don't mind the distance in meters. I have a problem when the game rounds off the distance to the nearest meter. If I knew that the trap was .3 away then I would be sure that one step would bring me to 0. But the game says 1 meter if you are .3 or .6 away from the trap. I think the more accurate measure would solve my problem but the view menu still takes several seconds to review which in the case of being attacked is too long. I don't know if you pause the action in the game when going into review. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
I totally agree with this. If a level is totally impossible to beat, it should be lessened to the point at which a gamer really has to work to beat, but it can be done. If nobody can jump the Grand Canyon, then the Grand Canyon should not be one of the obstacles, so to speak. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Ian McNamara" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. hi i agree with this, the game needs to be hard inuff on the harder levels to make it challinging but also it needs to be beetable. Ian McNamara. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi, Ah, but that's where alternative methods come in handy. Remember the super large chasm in level 2 of MOTA? There is no way you can jump it, but if you locate the hidden pressure switchg in the wall you can lower a drawbridge so you can simply walk across the chasm. This is why such impossible traps exists. You might not be able to defeat it by normal means, but there might be a way around it. On 11/4/10, Charles Rivard wrote: > I totally agree with this. If a level is totally impossible to beat, it > should be lessened to the point at which a gamer really has to work to beat, > but it can be done. If nobody can jump the Grand Canyon, then the Grand > Canyon should not be one of the obstacles, so to speak. > > --- > Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Phil, Um..As I recall when you open the view menu it pauses the game. That is so you can look around at things without monsters trying to take your head off or shoot you full of arrows while examining stuff. As far as rounding meters I explained this in part in another e-mail. Since I am using prerecorded speech here it is easier to round to the nearest integer value rather than speak a floating point value like 0.6 meters away. If we want to get that kind of precision we need to switch over to Sapi or something like that for speech. Cheers! On 11/4/10, Phil Vlasak wrote: > Hi Thomas, > I don't mind the distance in meters. I have a problem when the game rounds > off the distance to the nearest meter. > If I knew that the trap was .3 away then I would be sure that one step would > bring me to 0. > But the game says 1 meter if you are .3 or .6 away from the trap. > I think the more accurate measure would solve my problem but the view menu > still takes several seconds to review which in the case of being attacked is > too long. > I don't know if you pause the action in the game when going into review. > Phil > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
That's fine, as long as such alternative methods, although they may be hidden, do exist. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, Ah, but that's where alternative methods come in handy. Remember the super large chasm in level 2 of MOTA? There is no way you can jump it, but if you locate the hidden pressure switchg in the wall you can lower a drawbridge so you can simply walk across the chasm. This is why such impossible traps exists. You might not be able to defeat it by normal means, but there might be a way around it. On 11/4/10, Charles Rivard wrote: I totally agree with this. If a level is totally impossible to beat, it should be lessened to the point at which a gamer really has to work to beat, but it can be done. If nobody can jump the Grand Canyon, then the Grand Canyon should not be one of the obstacles, so to speak. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Thomas, If you rounded off the floating point value to a tenth of a meter you would only need to record 9 new sound files. The distance and how accurate the measure is, doesn't matter since you can not vary your step. How about a tip toe hot key that would move you by .1 of a meter and also tell you the distance. So it would say .3, .2, .1, 0 as you step closer to a pit. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Tom, Wonder how that happened? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:38 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Lol wouldn't be the first time someone confuses my name with a totally random one hahaha. think I was Tom at some point. - Original Message - From: "Clement Chou" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Sorry to get on the case... just one comment then I'll drop it. How do you > get our names confused if they don't even look the same? lol. > > At 07:17 PM 03/11/2010, you wrote: >>Hi, >>Yep. Lots of email to go through in one evening. >> >>Best Regards, >>Hayden >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >>Behalf Of Hayden Presley >>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:51 PM >>To: 'Gamers Discussion list' >>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - >>Re:Q9 version 1.2. >> >>Hi Clement, >>Good points, all of them. I see your point. >> >>Best Regards, >>Hayden >> >> >>-Original Message- >>From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >>Behalf Of Yohandy >>Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:44 PM >>To: Gamers Discussion list >>Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - >>Re:Q9 version 1.2. >> >>I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too >>difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you >>out >> >>for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an >>example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point >>during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you >>at >>full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all >>without >>taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging >>we >> >>can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack >>at >> >>once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well >>jump >> >>away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? >>Also >>remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we >>just >> >>gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point >>we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, >>only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that >>side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a >>difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. >>Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties >>that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. >>even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have >>a >> >>multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature >>that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't >>lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if >>developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to >>test >>it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title >>to >> >>test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's >>doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether >>someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, >>I >> >>could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving >>at >> >>55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will >>ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, >>then >> >>what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game >>difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game >>setting. >> >> >> >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Hayden Presley" >>To: "'
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Dark, Did you say easy in Technoshock is difficult? It's insane. Half of your health gets zapped by those acid pools or whatever they are; I really wish they took those out. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:55 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I agree Haiden. Were it the easy or normal difficulties which were too difficult, as in something like technoshock, then there would indeed be a problem, but insane is supposed to be, - well insane! Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Hi, > That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit > exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit > too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of > saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it > today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Yohandy > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 > version 1.2. > > Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of > Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate > you > > for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some > of > > his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games > that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost > unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard > that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim > you've beaten Q9 on insane? > > - Original Message - > From: "dark" > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:36 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. > > >> Funnily enough haiden, I personally always thought of this as one of the >> games' strengths. >> >> I got through easy on the day I bought it (yes, I bought it before it >> went > >> freeware), and was a trifle disappointed, but normal took me a degree >> more > >> practice to beat and I've never done it on insane. >> >> for my money, this is actually how difficulties should be, so once you >> raise the difficulty, you need to raise your game to match. >> >> I also noticed philip seems to carry this on in his other games as well, >> in fact generally I'd say formulating difficulty levels seems to be one >> of > >> philip's major strengths. >> >> beware the Grue! >> >> Dark. >> - Original Message - >> From: "Hayden Presley" >> To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. >> >> >>> Hi, >>> My only criticism is the shear difference in level difficulties. I can >>> beat >>> easy, hands down, but I cannot beat normal at all. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> Hayden >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of dark >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 2:07 PM >>> To: Gamers Discussion list >>> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. >>> >>> You should actually give it a try especially as it's free, you can get >>> it >>> from Tom's free games section. >>> >>> it was also produced by philip bennifall back when he was running pb >>> games, >>> and has various cool features like cut scenes and multiple weapons, >>> pluss >>> some rather fun bosses and obstacles. >>> >>> in fact I think my only major problem with the game is that while the >>> side >>> scrolling levels are rather fun, there are also none side scrolling >>>
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller?- Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Heck, it's not just the acid pits that whack off half your health. Pretty much every enemy in the game does this. And it doesn't help that you can't carry med kits with you. I gave up on that game years ago. I'm all for more challenging games but I think they took Technoshock way too far. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller?- Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Dark, Did you say easy in Technoshock is difficult? It's insane. Half of your health gets zapped by those acid pools or whatever they are; I really wish they took those out. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 1:55 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I agree Haiden. Were it the easy or normal difficulties which were too difficult, as in something like technoshock, then there would indeed be a problem, but insane is supposed to be, - well insane! Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 2:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi, That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate you for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some of his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim you've beaten Q9 on insane? - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Funnily enough haiden, I personally always thought of this as one of the games' strengths. I got through easy on the day I bought it (yes, I bought it before it went freeware), and was a trifle disappointed, but normal took me a degree more practice to beat and I've never done it on insane. for my money, this is actually how difficulties should be, so once you raise the difficulty, you need to raise your game to match. I also noticed philip seems to carry this on in his other games as well, in fact generally I'd say formulating difficulty levels seems to be one of philip's major strengths. beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. Hi, My only criticism is the shear difference in level difficulties. I can beat easy, hands down, but I cannot beat normal at all. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 2:07 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] best side scroller? - Re: Q9 version 1.2. You should actually give it a try especially as it's free, you can get it from Tom's free games section. it was also produced by philip bennifall back when he was running pb games, and has various cool features like cut scenes and multiple weapons, pluss some rather fun bosses and obstacles. in fact I think my only major problem with the game is that while the side scrolling levels are rather fun, there are also none side scrolling levels which can vary in quality. one in particular is especially awsome (I'm thinking of the torgon battle here), but a couple of the others are rather less interesting. Stil, the game has far more good level
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2.
I'm going to try beating q9 on insane now -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: 04 November 2010 02:51 To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Clement, Good points, all of them. I see your point. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Yohandy Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. I certainly understand where you're coming from, but if the game's too difficult, it gets to a point where your fastest reflexes won't help you out for long. Since Q9 is Philip's most recent game, let's use it as an example.You set game to insane and start walking around. at some point during the game a rhino, and about 5 other animals come galloping at you at full speed. what do we do in that situation? we can't kill them all without taking massive damage in the process, and since there's no way of dodging we can't attack them on mass, and hope to survive anyhow. so they all attack at once and we die within 10 seconds. In this situation you could say well jump away from them. We could do that, but what if there's a pit behind us? Also remember Q9 enemies follow you indefinitely once they see you so are we just gonna run all the way back to the beginning of the level, at which point we'll be trapped regardless? . if we jump forward and over them somehow, only thing that'll happen is we'll have another pile of enemies from that side added to our current predicament all ganging up on us. I don't find a difficulty like that fun or challenging, I find it extremely frustrating. Console games have a balance between the easiest and hardest difficulties that stays constant, and also within the realm of possibility to complete. even games that are extremely difficult and almost impossible to beat have a multiplayer option, or a way to get health items, or some such feature that'll spread, or lessen the burden of completing the game and that won't lead to frustration for the player for the next 3 years. I think if developers are going to put an extremely hard difficulty, they need to test it out or at least have a team that's good enough at the particular title to test it for them, and complete the game first to make 100% certain it's doable. Don't just put it out there without the slightest clue whether someone will ever be able to complete it. If I had the programming skills, I could make a game that has a difficulty setting with 350 creatures moving at 55mph and all attacking simultaneously in 3d space, but I know no one will ever complete such a game. and if no one can beat it and brag about it, then what would be the point? the clue's in the name guys. It's called game difficulty setting, not game impossibility setting. or unbeatable game setting. - Original Message - From: "Hayden Presley" To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Hi, > That's a two-sided coin. On one hand I can see how you can be a bit > exasperated with that (like I said, I do think Tarzan Junior is just a bit > too hard). But on the other hand, it becomes a matter of challenge, of > saying, "Ok,I made it to the Cave World Level 3, how far will I make it > today?" See where I'm going? But as I said, I do agree with you as well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Yohandy > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 9:06 PM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? - Re: Q9 > version 1.2. > > Dark, Here's the problem though. Has anyone actually completed any of > Philip's games on insane, beta team included? If yes then I congratulate > you > > for a job well done, but if not, we have a problem. especially since some > of > > his games have been out for a really long time. If people can't beat games > that have been out for years, This suggests to me that the game is almost > unbeatable. In that case, what would be the point of a difficulty so hard > that no one can beat? how about his recent games? can any of you claim > you've beaten Q9 on insane? > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Maybe somehow you could remove the ledges on higher difficulty levels? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 04 November 2010 13:02 To: Philip Bennefall; Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. Hi Philip, Very good points. This has been one of the leading issues with Mysteries of the Ancients. Some people say it is too hard on beginner and completely unbeatable on expert. Others say beginner is far too easy. There are so many variables to take in account it is awefully difficult to balance it out so everyone finds it both challenging but not too hard. Case in point the traps. I myself don't believe in having ledges etc around the traps as I think that does make it to easy to know when a chasm, fire pit, lava pit, whatever is coming up. All the same people have been encurraging me to add more indication to know when a trap comes up so they can jump it. As of beta 15 I personally find the traps in MOTA way too easy so they are kind of pointless in my opinion, but people like them easy. One man's difficult is another man's easy. On 11/3/10, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Yohandy, > > Designing difficulty levels is not as easy as it may seem to the player. In > Q9, as simple a game as it is, still has almost 25 different variables that > need to be adjusted and balanced for a difficulty level. This includes the > size of pits, the speed of each enemy, the attack power of each, etc etc. I > do agree that the insane difficulty level is much too hard, but I want to > point out the challenge in balancing the various difficulty levels in games > like these. With the recent changes that are coming soon, the game has been > made a little easier over-all which should make it possible to beat it on > more difficulty levels; especially with the increase of the club attack > speed and the laser being available in the actual game. Now if the > conclusion is still that insane is unbeatable, I may just remove it. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Is that in beta 16 -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: 04 November 2010 16:05 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. That's fine, as long as such alternative methods, although they may be hidden, do exist. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2. > Hi, > > Ah, but that's where alternative methods come in handy. Remember the > super large chasm in level 2 of MOTA? > > There is no way you can jump it, but if you locate the hidden pressure > switchg in the wall you can lower a drawbridge so you can simply walk > across the chasm. This is why such impossible traps exists. You might > not be able to defeat it by normal means, but there might be a way > around it. > > > On 11/4/10, Charles Rivard wrote: >> I totally agree with this. If a level is totally impossible to beat, it >> should be lessened to the point at which a gamer really has to work to >> beat, >> but it can be done. If nobody can jump the Grand Canyon, then the Grand >> Canyon should not be one of the obstacles, so to speak. >> >> --- >> Shepherds are the best beasts! > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game difficulties was Re: best side scroller? -Re:Q9 version 1.2.
Hi Muhammed, Is what in beta 16? Your question needs to be more specific as I completely lost the thread of the conversation. Cheers! On 11/20/10, Ben wrote: > Is that in beta 16 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
