Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi thomas, In that case doesn't lw fit the bill quite closely as a 3d game? Because you can go in all those directions, even go under enemy ships through caves and the like. I think so far lw is about the most complex game out there. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 26 December 2009 20:52 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, I like the concept of an open arena type game as a free training program, but unfortunately that wouldn't be a very good example of a true 3d game. If we are talking a true 3d game keep in mind we aren't just talking north, south, east, and west directions. There has to be an element of vertical movement as well else we are still a 2d game. That's essentially the problem with Shades of Doom. It only offers an x and y axis of movement, and there is no vertical up/down movement at all in the game. This is totally different from what Tomb Hunter II will be like. Here is an example of what I mean. In Tomb Hunter II besides being able to turn 360 degrees and move north, south, east, and west through the tombs you'll also have a fair amount of climbing up/down to get through the tombs. You might have to climb a rope to ascend into a room above you or remove a trap door to jump into a room below you. So instead of four directions of movement you will have a total of six possible directions to go from any point on the level. Does this make sense? Let's use this as a very simple example. Let's assume you are swimming in the ocean and you are underwater. Besides being able to swim forward and backward you can turn 360 degrees moving north, south, east, or west as well. However, you should also be able to swim down towards the ocean floor or swim up to the surface. A game based on my swimming example would be a far more accurate and realistic example of a 3d game simple as it is. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.724 / Virus Database: 270.14.120/2587 - Release Date: 12/26/09 08:27:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.724 / Virus Database: 270.14.120/2588 - Release Date: 12/27/09 09:18:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi Darren, Yes and no. While Lonewolf does allow your submarine to move in a 3d world most of the enemies such as the enemy subs stay on the surface. So while the game has the potential to go completely 3d it does not in fact do so. Plus it uses simple panning from left to right which means while the game has a 3d world audio is rendered only in 2d. There hasn't been a game that does both of these things very well in one game. HTH Darren Harris wrote: Hi thomas, In that case doesn't lw fit the bill quite closely as a 3d game? Because you can go in all those directions, even go under enemy ships through caves and the like. I think so far lw is about the most complex game out there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi thomas, Yes I see what you mean. When you put it like that I completely agree. I really want to see some sort of space simulator. Those are my favourite type of game and if there's 1 thing that I'm disappointed in when it comes to the blind friendly market that's the 1 thing that disappoints me. Because that's 1 area of gaming that really hasn't been explored. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: 27 December 2009 20:46 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Darren, Yes and no. While Lonewolf does allow your submarine to move in a 3d world most of the enemies such as the enemy subs stay on the surface. So while the game has the potential to go completely 3d it does not in fact do so. Plus it uses simple panning from left to right which means while the game has a 3d world audio is rendered only in 2d. There hasn't been a game that does both of these things very well in one game. HTH Darren Harris wrote: Hi thomas, In that case doesn't lw fit the bill quite closely as a 3d game? Because you can go in all those directions, even go under enemy ships through caves and the like. I think so far lw is about the most complex game out there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.724 / Virus Database: 270.14.121/2589 - Release Date: 12/27/09 09:18:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.724 / Virus Database: 270.14.121/2589 - Release Date: 12/27/09 09:18:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
To be honest, I find shades of doom rather bboring. Don't know if it's because I havven't taken the time to listen to the instructions more closely, but I prefer Night Of Parisite, which is pretty cool. I completed that game nearly, but got fed up of trying to finish the 3rd level. Gurr'rr'rr'rr'rr'rrr??? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: 26 December 2009 10:36 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi tom. One thing at a time! people can play many left right sterrio targiting strictly speaking 1 dimentional affairs, yet find a 2D game like shades complex, so I suggest an open arena type trainer for familiarity, --- -something I think might stil be valuable so people can understand analogue movement. If however tomb hunter Ii is going to be 3D and even more complex, I believe people will need to work up to it. A 2D arena game like robotrron might be a good start, then perhaps a 3D flight based arena game (give the character's jet packs to avoid all that irritating flight physics), or a basic climb to the top of the pyramid type affair for 3D training. while I know certainly the tomb raider games had their own trainers with lara croft walking and around her mantion and swimming in her swimming pool, I'd say something more is needed, ie, something where people can explore 2D analogue and 3D movement under the pressure of enemies and scoring constraints, trying to rack up better scofres, and thus get used to the idea. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, I like the concept of an open arena type game as a free training program, but unfortunately that wouldn't be a very good example of a true 3d game. If we are talking a true 3d game keep in mind we aren't just talking north, south, east, and west directions. There has to be an element of vertical movement as well else we are still a 2d game. That's essentially the problem with Shades of Doom. It only offers an x and y axis of movement, and there is no vertical up/down movement at all in the game. This is totally different from what Tomb Hunter II will be like. Here is an example of what I mean. In Tomb Hunter II besides being able to turn 360 degrees and move north, south, east, and west through the tombs you'll also have a fair amount of climbing up/down to get through the tombs. You might have to climb a rope to ascend into a room above you or remove a trap door to jump into a room below you. So instead of four directions of movement you will have a total of six possible directions to go from any point on the level. Does this make sense? Let's use this as a very simple example. Let's assume you are swimming in the ocean and you are underwater. Besides being able to swim forward and backward you can turn 360 degrees moving north, south, east, or west as well. However, you should also be able to swim down towards the ocean floor or swim up to the surface. A game based on my swimming example would be a far more accurate and realistic example of a 3d game simple as it is. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
The enemy subs stay on the surface? Hmmm. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 2:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Darren, Yes and no. While Lonewolf does allow your submarine to move in a 3d world most of the enemies such as the enemy subs stay on the surface. So while the game has the potential to go completely 3d it does not in fact do so. Plus it uses simple panning from left to right which means while the game has a 3d world audio is rendered only in 2d. There hasn't been a game that does both of these things very well in one game. HTH Darren Harris wrote: Hi thomas, In that case doesn't lw fit the bill quite closely as a 3d game? Because you can go in all those directions, even go under enemy ships through caves and the like. I think so far lw is about the most complex game out there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi Hayden, Yes, they do. That has been and is one of my major complaints with Lonewolf. All of the enemies, including submarines, are surface vessels, and there is no ability to have a 3d combat situation where you might have to combat enemy subs that might be above or below your current depth. If they are attacking you you can dive to escape but the enemy submarines can't follow you down to 80 feet or whatever. that's why I say although Lonewolf has a 3d grid, a 3d world, Lonewolf doesn't actually use it to its best advantage. Hayden Presley wrote: The enemy subs stay on the surface? Hmmm. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
hi Tom, In Lonewolf the firing depth is 40 feet. However, were this a true World War II submarine simulation firing depth would be 60 feet if memory serves me correctly. So the games facts or technical specifications are off some. Tom Randall wrote: Yes, the enemy subs tend to stay close to the surface if they are attacking, and you have to do the same thing with your sub, you can only target torpedoes if you are above a certain depth, I cannot remember what that is exactly I need to re-install Lone Wolf. Pretty much the only reason you go deep is if you are trying to evade something. Hope this helps. Tom --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Myself, the only thing I've seen that tags them as submarines is the fact that they can fire torpedoes at you. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 7:54 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Hayden, Yes, they do. That has been and is one of my major complaints with Lonewolf. All of the enemies, including submarines, are surface vessels, and there is no ability to have a 3d combat situation where you might have to combat enemy subs that might be above or below your current depth. If they are attacking you you can dive to escape but the enemy submarines can't follow you down to 80 feet or whatever. that's why I say although Lonewolf has a 3d grid, a 3d world, Lonewolf doesn't actually use it to its best advantage. Hayden Presley wrote: The enemy subs stay on the surface? Hmmm. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
yeah the only thing the ships can do is charge your ship. this is dangerous however if you get to about 250-300 feet then it doesn't matter. if the ships keep going then they are hard to hit but if they stop and some do then these are easy targets. At 02:53 p.m. 28/12/2009, you wrote: Hi Hayden, Yes, they do. That has been and is one of my major complaints with Lonewolf. All of the enemies, including submarines, are surface vessels, and there is no ability to have a 3d combat situation where you might have to combat enemy subs that might be above or below your current depth. If they are attacking you you can dive to escape but the enemy submarines can't follow you down to 80 feet or whatever. that's why I say although Lonewolf has a 3d grid, a 3d world, Lonewolf doesn't actually use it to its best advantage. Hayden Presley wrote: The enemy subs stay on the surface? Hmmm. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi, I actually really like that idea. Yeah, I would like to see something like that. I know its gonna be more complicated as it was programming The real Kringle Crash, though it practices. As you as the programmer, and the player. So I think that might be a good idea. Kevin - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 3:51 AM Subject: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi. While i do see your point tom, personally for me it depends entirely upon the navigation system. i'm probably the worst person you will find in terms of spacial navigation, due to brain damage when I was born. I physically find any grid based game with multiple objects such as sudoku, mine sweeper or even solitare nerely impossible to play due to this. For 3d games though, I do nbelieve there is a lot of potential for something interesting provided the navigational features are good enough, --- turn indicators, examination in speech of the environment, use of markers, have I visited before keys etc. I've never had trouble playing Gma tank commander, shades or sarah, or indeed terraformers. that being said though, monkey business I'm frankly horrible at and have never got past the jungle level due to far too much sound, and far too little navigation help. I admit I love 2D games and want to see more of them, but I equally wouldn't want to see no more 3d games being produced. but if edevelopers are afraid that £3d games won't be well recieved, why produce one? One thing i've noticed is side scrollers are easier to pick up and play, --- you hear it on the left, move left and smack or collect it etc. also, with the tonnes and tonnes of left/right sterrio targiting affairs on the markit, many of them free, people get a lot of practice with that sort of navigation. there has recently been a lot of talk on this list about old atari 2600 remakes like Asteroids and missile command. how about creating a game like robotron or berzerk as a 3D freeby. Just you, in a mostly open 3D area, with a laser gun and lots of robots to shoot. Like Berzerk you could have electrified walls, or like robotron you could have a completely open square arena, but with power ups and bonuses to collect. either way, it would be the 3D version of something like kringle crash. No complicated mazes, weapons, puzles or anything else to worry about, just you, a gun, and some nasties, and your skills at 3D navigation and dodging. This would let people practice combat and movement in 3D as easily as practicing 2D, and create another nice fun game, possibly an atari remake in the process. I'm guessing with the genesis engine, you might already have done something similar yourself for testing purposes, if not I appologise, but if so, maybe it'd be worth slapping some sounds together and turning it into a game so people can practice their 3D combat skills. just an idea. beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi Dark, I like the concept of an open arena type game as a free training program, but unfortunately that wouldn't be a very good example of a true 3d game. If we are talking a true 3d game keep in mind we aren't just talking north, south, east, and west directions. There has to be an element of vertical movement as well else we are still a 2d game. That's essentially the problem with Shades of Doom. It only offers an x and y axis of movement, and there is no vertical up/down movement at all in the game. This is totally different from what Tomb Hunter II will be like. Here is an example of what I mean. In Tomb Hunter II besides being able to turn 360 degrees and move north, south, east, and west through the tombs you'll also have a fair amount of climbing up/down to get through the tombs. You might have to climb a rope to ascend into a room above you or remove a trap door to jump into a room below you. So instead of four directions of movement you will have a total of six possible directions to go from any point on the level. Does this make sense? Let's use this as a very simple example. Let's assume you are swimming in the ocean and you are underwater. Besides being able to swim forward and backward you can turn 360 degrees moving north, south, east, or west as well. However, you should also be able to swim down towards the ocean floor or swim up to the surface. A game based on my swimming example would be a far more accurate and realistic example of a 3d game simple as it is. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios
Hi tom. One thing at a time! people can play many left right sterrio targiting strictly speaking 1 dimentional affairs, yet find a 2D game like shades complex, so I suggest an open arena type trainer for familiarity, --- -something I think might stil be valuable so people can understand analogue movement. If however tomb hunter Ii is going to be 3D and even more complex, I believe people will need to work up to it. A 2D arena game like robotrron might be a good start, then perhaps a 3D flight based arena game (give the character's jet packs to avoid all that irritating flight physics), or a basic climb to the top of the pyramid type affair for 3D training. while I know certainly the tomb raider games had their own trainers with lara croft walking and around her mantion and swimming in her swimming pool, I'd say something more is needed, ie, something where people can explore 2D analogue and 3D movement under the pressure of enemies and scoring constraints, trying to rack up better scofres, and thus get used to the idea. Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] 3d training was: The future of Blastbay Studios Hi Dark, I like the concept of an open arena type game as a free training program, but unfortunately that wouldn't be a very good example of a true 3d game. If we are talking a true 3d game keep in mind we aren't just talking north, south, east, and west directions. There has to be an element of vertical movement as well else we are still a 2d game. That's essentially the problem with Shades of Doom. It only offers an x and y axis of movement, and there is no vertical up/down movement at all in the game. This is totally different from what Tomb Hunter II will be like. Here is an example of what I mean. In Tomb Hunter II besides being able to turn 360 degrees and move north, south, east, and west through the tombs you'll also have a fair amount of climbing up/down to get through the tombs. You might have to climb a rope to ascend into a room above you or remove a trap door to jump into a room below you. So instead of four directions of movement you will have a total of six possible directions to go from any point on the level. Does this make sense? Let's use this as a very simple example. Let's assume you are swimming in the ocean and you are underwater. Besides being able to swim forward and backward you can turn 360 degrees moving north, south, east, or west as well. However, you should also be able to swim down towards the ocean floor or swim up to the surface. A game based on my swimming example would be a far more accurate and realistic example of a 3d game simple as it is. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
