Re: [Gendergap] Marfan syndrome image

[Emily Monroe]

One way to obscure the face is, if you're not trying to illustrate facial
features of certain genetic conditions, to crop the face out entirely.

Also, I think the concern is more "Are the parents of the kids aware that
the picture is on Wikipedia and are they okay with it?", and not copyright.
I know people with genetic syndromes, along with some doctors and a lot of
parents of kids with genetic syndromes, have issues with some of the
medical imagery used to portray genetic conditions.

From,
Emily

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Nathan  wrote:

> The image was removed by Doc James with the edit summary "Prior person had
> a lot more than marfans"
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Systematic tagging for deletion of articles created at Art And Feminism editathon

[Emily Monroe]

It was mostly a passing impulse that I was worried about, and decided to
express, just in case.

But since I'm currently semi-wikibonked, and you're actually participating
in the discussions (thanks!), you probably know more than I do.

From,
Emily

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:

> Emily, could you elaborate on your reason for thinking sexist Wikipedians
> were a significant factor here? Having reviewed and engaged with several of
> the articles and AfDs under discussion, I don't see any reason for that. In
> my view, there were some unnecessarily unpleasant comments, but nothing
> that struck me as sexist. But if I've missed something, I'd like to know.
> -Pete
> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Emily Monroe 
> wrote:
>
>> Do you think the draft templates were the issue? Maybe I'm overly
>> cynical, perhaps they advertised the fact that they were created by arts
>> and feminism to sexist wikipedians.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Pharos 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This is actually the 3rd year of Art+Feminism, and the organizers' focus
>>> has consistently been on improving existing articles (particularly stubs!),
>>> as most appropriate to new Wikipedians, particularly at this scale of
>>> effort.
>>>
>>> Of course some new Wikipedians are eager to start new articles, and we
>>> accommodate that as best we can, both with personal assistance from
>>> long-term Wikipedians where possible, and also technical innovations like
>>> the draft template system we premiered this year.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Pharos
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Pete Forsyth 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I very much agree, Emily. I wonder if this time, perhaps all the
>>>> (wonderful and timely) media coverage of Emily Temple Wood's efforts to
>>>> create new articles may have influenced organizers and/or participants?
>>>> Perhaps it created a bit of a consensus, conscious or unconscious, that
>>>> *creating new articles* was the main desired result.
>>>>
>>>> If so, this might be a bit of a one-time anomaly, may not indicate a
>>>> need for major changes.
>>>>
>>>> -Pete
>>>> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Emily Monroe 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In general, creating articles are very difficult. The learning curve
>>>>> is steep, and it may be best to have people expand/improve articles 
>>>>> instead
>>>>> of creating them.
>>>>>
>>>>> From,
>>>>> Emily
>>>>> On Mar 12, 2016 11:48 AM, "Ryan Kaldari" 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I find it disappointing that so many of the Art and Feminism
>>>>>> editathons end up focusing almost exclusively on creating new articles 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> artists at the hosting institution. Not only does this lead to a high
>>>>>> percentage of the articles being deleted, but it's a waste of a huge
>>>>>> opportunity to create and expand articles about artists and artworks with
>>>>>> unquestionable notability and high encyclopedic value.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no doubt that many of the Art and Feminism articles that are
>>>>>> nominated for deletion are nominated due to gender bias (as some of them
>>>>>> seem rather trivial to find sources for and improve), but many of them 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> also legitimately on the notability borderline. At all of the Art and
>>>>>> Feminism editathons that I've volunteered at, I've discouraged people 
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> creating articles about people they knew personally, and encouraged them 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> use the lists at
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism/Tasks
>>>>>> instead. If you are helping to run an Art and Feminism editathon, I would
>>>>>> also suggest doing this, as it provides more value for Wikipedia and 
>>>>>> leads
>>>>>> to fewer deletions. I would also like to encourage everyone to edit the
>>>>>> lists at
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:M

Re: [Gendergap] Systematic tagging for deletion of articles created at Art And Feminism editathon

[Emily Monroe]

Do you think the draft templates were the issue? Maybe I'm overly cynical,
perhaps they advertised the fact that they were created by arts and
feminism to sexist wikipedians.

From,
Emily

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Pharos 
wrote:

> This is actually the 3rd year of Art+Feminism, and the organizers' focus
> has consistently been on improving existing articles (particularly stubs!),
> as most appropriate to new Wikipedians, particularly at this scale of
> effort.
>
> Of course some new Wikipedians are eager to start new articles, and we
> accommodate that as best we can, both with personal assistance from
> long-term Wikipedians where possible, and also technical innovations like
> the draft template system we premiered this year.
>
> Thanks,
> Pharos
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Pete Forsyth 
> wrote:
>
>> I very much agree, Emily. I wonder if this time, perhaps all the
>> (wonderful and timely) media coverage of Emily Temple Wood's efforts to
>> create new articles may have influenced organizers and/or participants?
>> Perhaps it created a bit of a consensus, conscious or unconscious, that
>> *creating new articles* was the main desired result.
>>
>> If so, this might be a bit of a one-time anomaly, may not indicate a need
>> for major changes.
>>
>> -Pete
>> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Emily Monroe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In general, creating articles are very difficult. The learning curve is
>>> steep, and it may be best to have people expand/improve articles instead of
>>> creating them.
>>>
>>> From,
>>> Emily
>>> On Mar 12, 2016 11:48 AM, "Ryan Kaldari"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find it disappointing that so many of the Art and Feminism editathons
>>>> end up focusing almost exclusively on creating new articles for artists at
>>>> the hosting institution. Not only does this lead to a high percentage of
>>>> the articles being deleted, but it's a waste of a huge opportunity to
>>>> create and expand articles about artists and artworks with unquestionable
>>>> notability and high encyclopedic value.
>>>>
>>>> I have no doubt that many of the Art and Feminism articles that are
>>>> nominated for deletion are nominated due to gender bias (as some of them
>>>> seem rather trivial to find sources for and improve), but many of them are
>>>> also legitimately on the notability borderline. At all of the Art and
>>>> Feminism editathons that I've volunteered at, I've discouraged people from
>>>> creating articles about people they knew personally, and encouraged them to
>>>> use the lists at
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism/Tasks
>>>> instead. If you are helping to run an Art and Feminism editathon, I would
>>>> also suggest doing this, as it provides more value for Wikipedia and leads
>>>> to fewer deletions. I would also like to encourage everyone to edit the
>>>> lists at
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism/Tasks
>>>> and help keep them full of good suggestions. Editathons are a great tool
>>>> for addressing the gendergap, and I would hate for them to get a reputation
>>>> for just being self-promotional events.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Carol Moore dc <
>>>> carolmoor...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Someone should write a letter to the editor of the those 5 or 6
>>>>> publications that came in my google alerts on the topic of the edit a 
>>>>> thon.
>>>>> (Search news google to find them.)  And of course deal with the few
>>>>> legtimate complaints and the trolls with nonsense complaints.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/12/2016 10:17 AM, Neotarf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> All the articles created at Regina ArtAndFeminism event have been
>>>>>> tagged.   Ten of them have been submitted for deletion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Regina/ArtAndFeminism_2016/University_of_Regina
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, see comments here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Risa_Horowitz
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>&

Re: [Gendergap] Systematic tagging for deletion of articles created at Art And Feminism editathon

[Emily Monroe]

I wonder why, if pointing to an article and saying "I did that" is so
valued among newer members of the Wikipedian community, that WP:OWN isn't
more of an issue. Is it because most new articles "fall through the
cracks", so to speak, not to be edited again until weeks, if not months or
in a few cases years until after the initial editing spree?

From,
Emily

On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Risker  wrote:

> While the coverage wouldn't have hurt, the bottom line is that people
> would rather create something of their own than work on something started
> by someone else.  This is a reality, and it's one of the main reasons that
> people perceive Wikipedia as being "hard".  Emily is right, creating new
> articles *is* hard; I'm pretty sure over the last 10 years I've created
> fewer than 15 articles.  But "improving" an article is also hard, if the
> one you choose is "monitored" by a die-hard fan or someone who doesn't get
> the meaning of WP:OWN.  I think that experienced editors (with emphasis on
> the word "editor" here) sometimes don't understand that many people get
> little pleasure out of improving what they see as someone else's creation;
> they want to have their own creation, that they can point to and say "I did
> that".  It's exactly why we get people constantly pushing the boundaries of
> notability - not necessarily because they see a gap, but because they
> figure it's a way to gain recognition for creating a big pile of articles.
>
> We have to bear in mind that we're dealing with multiple agendas in these
> specific edit-a-thons.  There's the "all art is tremendously important"
> agenda, there's the "women are not given their due" agenda, there's the
> commercial or self-interest agenda (one that is often ignored in some of
> these specialized group activities).   Plus of course there is the "let's
> make Wikipedia better" agenda that's common to all edit-a-thons.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
>
> On 12 March 2016 at 19:14, Pete Forsyth  wrote:
>
>> I very much agree, Emily. I wonder if this time, perhaps all the
>> (wonderful and timely) media coverage of Emily Temple Wood's efforts to
>> create new articles may have influenced organizers and/or participants?
>> Perhaps it created a bit of a consensus, conscious or unconscious, that
>> *creating new articles* was the main desired result.
>>
>> If so, this might be a bit of a one-time anomaly, may not indicate a need
>> for major changes.
>>
>> -Pete
>> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 4:08 PM, Emily Monroe 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In general, creating articles are very difficult. The learning curve is
>>> steep, and it may be best to have people expand/improve articles instead of
>>> creating them.
>>>
>>> From,
>>> Emily
>>> On Mar 12, 2016 11:48 AM, "Ryan Kaldari"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find it disappointing that so many of the Art and Feminism editathons
>>>> end up focusing almost exclusively on creating new articles for artists at
>>>> the hosting institution. Not only does this lead to a high percentage of
>>>> the articles being deleted, but it's a waste of a huge opportunity to
>>>> create and expand articles about artists and artworks with unquestionable
>>>> notability and high encyclopedic value.
>>>>
>>>> I have no doubt that many of the Art and Feminism articles that are
>>>> nominated for deletion are nominated due to gender bias (as some of them
>>>> seem rather trivial to find sources for and improve), but many of them are
>>>> also legitimately on the notability borderline. At all of the Art and
>>>> Feminism editathons that I've volunteered at, I've discouraged people from
>>>> creating articles about people they knew personally, and encouraged them to
>>>> use the lists at
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism/Tasks
>>>> instead. If you are helping to run an Art and Feminism editathon, I would
>>>> also suggest doing this, as it provides more value for Wikipedia and leads
>>>> to fewer deletions. I would also like to encourage everyone to edit the
>>>> lists at
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism/Tasks
>>>> and help keep them full of good suggestions. Editathons are a great tool
>>>> for addressing the gendergap, and I would hate for them to get a rep

Re: [Gendergap] Systematic tagging for deletion of articles created at Art And Feminism editathon

[Emily Monroe]

In general, creating articles are very difficult. The learning curve is
steep, and it may be best to have people expand/improve articles instead of
creating them.

From,
Emily
On Mar 12, 2016 11:48 AM, "Ryan Kaldari"  wrote:

> I find it disappointing that so many of the Art and Feminism editathons
> end up focusing almost exclusively on creating new articles for artists at
> the hosting institution. Not only does this lead to a high percentage of
> the articles being deleted, but it's a waste of a huge opportunity to
> create and expand articles about artists and artworks with unquestionable
> notability and high encyclopedic value.
>
> I have no doubt that many of the Art and Feminism articles that are
> nominated for deletion are nominated due to gender bias (as some of them
> seem rather trivial to find sources for and improve), but many of them are
> also legitimately on the notability borderline. At all of the Art and
> Feminism editathons that I've volunteered at, I've discouraged people from
> creating articles about people they knew personally, and encouraged them to
> use the lists at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism/Tasks
> instead. If you are helping to run an Art and Feminism editathon, I would
> also suggest doing this, as it provides more value for Wikipedia and leads
> to fewer deletions. I would also like to encourage everyone to edit the
> lists at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism/Tasks and
> help keep them full of good suggestions. Editathons are a great tool for
> addressing the gendergap, and I would hate for them to get a reputation for
> just being self-promotional events.
>
> On Sat, Mar 12, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Carol Moore dc  > wrote:
>
>> Someone should write a letter to the editor of the those 5 or 6
>> publications that came in my google alerts on the topic of the edit a thon.
>> (Search news google to find them.)  And of course deal with the few
>> legtimate complaints and the trolls with nonsense complaints.
>>
>>
>> On 3/12/2016 10:17 AM, Neotarf wrote:
>>
>>> All the articles created at Regina ArtAndFeminism event have been
>>> tagged.   Ten of them have been submitted for deletion.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Regina/ArtAndFeminism_2016/University_of_Regina
>>>
>>> For example, see comments here:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Risa_Horowitz
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Outcome of IdeaLab/Inspire campaign

[Emily Monroe]

I have my preferences set to have a section edit link at the top of the
page, so I can edit introductions. This often includes templates and
infoboxes.

From,
Emily

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 3:26 PM, J Hayes  wrote:

> i agree not coding
> especially with visual editor
>
> i look at it as another tool in the box for social media outreach
> for archivists and librarians and digital humanists
> pushing content to where researchers can find it.
>
> also broad principles of crowd sourcing, and open source software of crowd
> sourcing
> organizations use media wiki for internal wikis, and use crowd sourcing
> for transcription on their own site.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 2:32 PM, Christine Meyer <
> christinewme...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You make some good points, Ellie.  However, it's been my experience that
>> even a basic knowledge of HTML helped me learn Wiki syntax.  I am by no
>> means a coder, although I am married to one.  Perhaps a better way to frame
>> it is that learning Wiki syntax can help you learn to code easier?
>>
>> Christine
>> User:Figureskatingfan
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Ellie K  wrote:
>>
>>> I read Marie Earley's message about the Inspire campaign, and
>>> specifically about the Pinterest-related proposal.  I was interested in the
>>> Pinterest proposal too!  I use Pinterest for fun. As far as I know, I was
>>> the only one to endorse it (I am FeralOink on WP, Ellie Kesselman IRL).
>>>
>>> Marie said this in her message on the GenderGap mailing list:
>>>
 ​"​
 If the pitch to women were "learn code by editing Wikipedia" then I
 think there would be a greater take up...
 ​"​

>>>
>>> Yes, I agree that there would be a lot of interest from women if that
>>> were true. However, editing Wikipedia and learning to code have nothing to
>>> do with each other. Learning Wiki syntax for editing is something that can
>>> take bona fide programmers a (brief) while to learn, as it is markup with
>>> many additional Mediawiki-specific features. More to the point, Wiki syntax
>>> isn't a programming language, nor does it closely resemble HTML or CSS,
>>> which are not programming languages either. The only people who code on
>>> Wikipedia are the Wikidata folks and those who build utilities (many in
>>> Python, I think) for whatever the toolserver is called now. Most Wikipedia
>>> editors are not going to have any interaction with these few folks, nor any
>>> means to learn the skills they have.
>>>
>>> I'm sorry for sounding negative, but I don't want to mislead women into
>>> thinking they will learn a job skill like programming (coding) by editing
>>> Wikipedia. There are many other things one may learn by editing Wikipedia,
>>> but they aren't so easy to articulate and vary by individual.
>>>
>>> --Ellie Kesselman (FeralOink)
>>>
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>>> visit:
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christine
>> 
>> Christine W. Meyer
>> christinewme...@gmail.com
>> 208/310-1549
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Introducing myself

[Emily Monroe]

Welcome to the list!

From,
Emily

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Spike Lechat  wrote:

> Hello everyone.  The email I received says I should introduce myself, so I
> guess I'll say a little something.  I'm ekips39, or Spike, and I joined
> this list because I'd like to help with the gender gap and this might
> provide more opportunities for that.  Looking forward to participating in
> the mailing list if I can think of anything to say.
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Thank someone today.

[Emily Monroe]

>
> I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that WikiLove Kittens are
> not empowering.
>
> I too find a creep factor with the thing, especially since it seems to be
> popular with youngsters. This may not be the healthiest way for adults to
> be interacting with children.


Speaking someone who is a young adult that is perhaps "young at heart", and
also as someone who is fond of animals, I don't exactly mind getting
Kittens as WikiLove. In other words, I don't find kittens creepy. I just
don't find it empowering, or really any WikiLove as empowering, because
I've received so much of it.

If you type WP:WIKITHANKS in the search bar, there is a template that's an
alternative to traditional WikiLove. The creator designed it as an
alternative to barnstars, and it's supposed to linger on the talk page and
archived instead of put on the userpage or "WikiLove" subpage.

From,
Emily

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Neotarf  wrote:

> I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that WikiLove Kittens are
> not empowering.
>
> I too find a creep factor with the thing, especially since it seems to be
> popular with youngsters. This may not be the healthiest way for adults to
> be interacting with children.
>
> The nicest thank you I ever got was from someone at another language wiki
> who took the time to come to the English wiki and write a note on my talk
> page about a translation I did.  It seems they had always wanted to
> translate that particular article to English, but didn't feel their English
> skills were good enough.
>
> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Risker  wrote:
>
>> Kerry, I'm pretty sure you didn't know this, but you are amongst the top
>> 10 thankers on English Wikipedia - and THANK YOU for doing that.
>>
>>
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:F%C3%A6/sandbox&oldid=149050523
>> - now being discussed on Wikimedia-L mailing list.
>>
>> (This is the result of a script that Fae ran on enwiki and commons - it
>> would be really interesting to see how other projects do as well.)
>>
>> I do confess that I've started to use the number of "thanks" and on- or
>> off-wiki positive messages about an action to reassure me that a chosen
>> comment is on-point (or sometimes to recognize that it's not on-point,
>> too).  This kind of feedback is a lot more useful than I'd initially
>> expected, and I'm working up to giving more of them.  My initial restraint
>> was probably linked to my unwillingness to use the Wikilove extension -
>> nothing wrong with it except for using the word "Wikilove" in every edit
>> summary, which I find really creepy.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>> On 5 February 2015 at 05:04, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>>
>>> Well Jonathan, thanks for doing that! I am not an administrator, so I
>>> couldn't do those things you mentioned, but I often think that in some
>>> cases I wish I could do more than just "thank" the person. I know however
>>> that I was very suspicious of anyone posting on my talk page in the
>>> beginning, so I feel like the generic "thanks" is the best way to approach
>>> someone the first time. If someone comes across my watchlist a few times
>>> with I perceive as a "theme", then I will tip them about how to do basic
>>> things like create a category on commons for related images, or fill out
>>> the Wikidata item, or browse similar items in Reasonator.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 10:50 AM, WereSpielChequers <
>>> werespielchequ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 Much of my editing on wikipedia is minor typo fixes, the sort that a
 normal spellchecker won't pick up. I secularised lots of sports teams from
 having mangers to managers and also dealt with the problem of rock stars
 preforming songs in sports stadiums. I used to be able to do hundreds of
 such edits without anyone seeming to notice any except where they had
 missed the l from public. But now I get thanked for several percent of my
 edits, I think that is a really positive change on the pedia, of course the
 metrics people will take it as a negative because some of those thanks will
 be replacing edits, so the short term effect on the editing level is likely
 to be slightly negative.

 I do tend to check out who has thanked me and make sure the newbies who
 do so have had a welcome and give the ignored old hands reviewer status if
 I think they are ready for it.

 One of the most dysfunctional bits of the project is the way that
 people can do huge amounts of uncontentious stuff with very little
 interaction with others. I sometimes trawl the accounts who have recently
 created their 100th article and where appropriate set them as auto
 patrolled, often when i look at their talk pages the interactions they've
 had have been minimal.

 Regards

 Jonathan Cardy


 On 5 Feb 2015, at 00:11, Keilana  wrote:

 I love the thanks button, it's such an easy way to add more positivity
 to

Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help

[Emily Monroe]

Sorry if my previous email seemed a little harsh or confused.

I don't think a chatroom is non-confusing enough. One other way
helpees often "fail hard" is that they confuse messages sent to other
helpees as being directed at them. They don't realize it's a public
chatroom. We would need a system where a helpee can contact a helper 1:1
for this to work.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Emily Monroe 
wrote:

> Interesting. You were just talking about IRC and #wikipedia-en-help and
> not using research, and now you have seem to given up.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>
>> The chat system mentioned by Quiddity may actually decrease the number of
>> helpees in IRC by encouraging them to use the dedicated messaging system
>> which we hope will appeal to experienced users who will choose to join the
>> category-based chatrooms. Or the chatrooms may fail hard. Research data
>> about the chatroom concept would be good before committing to develop it.
>>
>> Pine
>> On Aug 12, 2014 9:45 PM, "Emily Monroe"  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot
>>> of responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation
>>> in #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and
>>> not helpees.
>>>
>>> From,
>>> Emily
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat
>>>> system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any
>>>> comments from the Growth and EE teams?
>>>>
>>>> Pine
>>>> On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, "quiddity"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated
>>>>> at:
>>>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System
>>>>> (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for "Why not IRC?")
>>>>> IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too
>>>>> difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state
>>>>> their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first.
>>>>>
>>>>> However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy
>>>>> comparison:
>>>>> https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test
>>>>> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test
>>>>> ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/  )
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH,
>>>>> Quiddity
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now
>>>>>> we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make
>>>>>> incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a 
>>>>>> new
>>>>>> tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie
>>>>>> user experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pine
>>>>>> On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, "Nathan"  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the
>>>>>>> questions Seb
>>>>>>> poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode
>>>>>>> interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult
>>>>>>> (not to
>>>>>>> mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think
>>>>>>> along the
>>>>>>> lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat.
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>>>>> wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>>> e...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>> e...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ___
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help

[Emily Monroe]

Interesting. You were just talking about IRC and #wikipedia-en-help and not
using research, and now you have seem to given up.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Pine W  wrote:

> The chat system mentioned by Quiddity may actually decrease the number of
> helpees in IRC by encouraging them to use the dedicated messaging system
> which we hope will appeal to experienced users who will choose to join the
> category-based chatrooms. Or the chatrooms may fail hard. Research data
> about the chatroom concept would be good before committing to develop it.
>
> Pine
> On Aug 12, 2014 9:45 PM, "Emily Monroe"  wrote:
>
>> I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of
>> responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in
>> #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and
>> not helpees.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat
>>> system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any
>>> comments from the Growth and EE teams?
>>>
>>> Pine
>>> On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, "quiddity"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated
>>>> at:
>>>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System
>>>> (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for "Why not IRC?")
>>>> IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too
>>>> difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state
>>>> their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first.
>>>>
>>>> However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy
>>>> comparison:
>>>> https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test
>>>> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test
>>>> ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/  )
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>> Quiddity
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we
>>>>> have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make
>>>>> incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a 
>>>>> new
>>>>> tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to
>>>>> texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie
>>>>> user experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pine
>>>>> On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, "Nathan"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the
>>>>>> questions Seb
>>>>>> poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode
>>>>>> interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult
>>>>>> (not to
>>>>>> mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat.
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>>>> wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> EE mailing list
>>>>> e...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> EE mailing list
>>>> e...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help

[Emily Monroe]

I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of
responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in
#wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and
not helpees.

From,
Emily


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat
> system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any
> comments from the Growth and EE teams?
>
> Pine
> On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, "quiddity"  wrote:
>
>> The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at:
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System
>> (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for "Why not IRC?")
>> IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult,
>> if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their
>> home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first.
>>
>> However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy
>> comparison:
>> https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test
>> http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test
>> ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/  )
>>
>> HTH,
>> Quiddity
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>>
>>>  That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we
>>> have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make
>>> incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new
>>> tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to
>>> texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie
>>> user experience.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>> On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, "Nathan"  wrote:
>>>
 Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions
 Seb
 poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode
 interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not
 to
 mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along
 the
 lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and
 people
 who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you
 want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat.
 ___
 Wikitech-l mailing list
 wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> EE mailing list
>>> e...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> EE mailing list
>> e...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee
>>
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] [Wikitech-l] [EE] IRC web client for Wikipedia help

[Emily Monroe]

On top of that, it seems that you, Pine, are very enthusiastic about
directing people to #wikipedia-en-help, therefore increasing the burden on
helpers, but you are often not a helper yourself.

From,
Emily


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Sarah Stierch 
wrote:

> Cynicism can be a powerful tool. And you aren't the first person to tell a
> shitstarter like me that ;-)
>
> But seriously - its challenging for all of us when I feel like our
> concerns aren't being considered. So take that as you will. We don't get
> emails from UX folks on this list anymoreI wish we did. I feel like WMF
> employees dropped off this list as contributors as staff (not volunteers
> like Kaldari and Swalling - they seem to write here more as volunteers than
> staff) after I lost my job and Sue left. I always feel like people forget
> there are a lot of changemakers and passionate people on this list.
>
> We had to prove the need for the Teahouse with data. The community did not
> want us to Implement it without proof of need and data on how this type of
> project was able to change things. I do this daily with my job in grant
> writing and evaluation - I have to show proof that someone needs to spend
> money on whatever my nonprofit clients want.
>
> So it's not cynicism in that regard - if we want to show "the community"
> and WMF that there is a problem and a change needs to occur and we have the
> data perhaps people will invest time and money in IRC and other things.
>
> We need to prove that there is a demand for IRC help and that newbies are
> failing to get oriented with it. I know there are problems with it...but
> knowing is not proving.
>
> Proof is in the pudding and we need some tasty pudding to get people to
> pay attention :)
>
> Sarah
>
> I
> On Aug 12, 2014 10:19 AM, "Pine W"  wrote:
>
>> Sarah, the cynicism in your comment is depressing and unnecessary. I
>> don't think I can convince you of the value of incremental change so I'm
>> not going to try.
>>
>> Pine
>> On Aug 12, 2014 7:49 AM, "Sarah Stierch"  wrote:
>>
>>> pine when you say "plenty' of people what does that constitute? Does
>>> anyone actually track how many needy people come into IRC - let alone those
>>> who can't pass the threshold of typing into the chat box?
>>>
>>> Data is a way to convince people of the need or demand and to spend time
>>> investing in IRC. One reason why the Teahouse is so success is because
>>> people do not have to leave the wiki to find help. That's one no no in
>>> business...
>>>
>>> I noticed that WMF staff are less interactive on this mailing list these
>>> days, for months actually.
>>>
>>> So who knows if anyone with "influence" is paying attention to this.
>>>
>>> Sarah
>>> On Aug 12, 2014 7:44 AM, "Emily Monroe"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I often help out at en-help. Often, people who are new at IRC need to
>>>> be told where to type. I would think this would qualify as "failing hard".
>>>>
>>>> From,
>>>> Emily
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Pine W  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we
>>>>> have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make
>>>>> incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a 
>>>>> new
>>>>> tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to
>>>>> texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie
>>>>> user experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pine
>>>>> On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, "Nathan"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the
>>>>>> questions Seb
>>>>>> poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode
>>>>>> interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult
>>>>>> (not to
>>>>>> mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> want, and you can't contact people 

Re: [Gendergap] [Wikitech-l] [EE] IRC web client for Wikipedia help

[Emily Monroe]

I often help out at en-help. Often, people who are new at IRC need to be
told where to type. I would think this would qualify as "failing hard".

From,
Emily


On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 6:45 AM, Pine W  wrote:

> That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have
> plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental
> improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from
> scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting
> and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user
> experience.
>
> Pine
> On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, "Nathan"  wrote:
>
>> Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions
>> Seb
>> poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode
>> interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to
>> mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the
>> lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and
>> people
>> who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you
>> want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat.
>> ___
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about Gendergap on the English Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

Yes. That's was what I was talking about.

From,
Emily


On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 2:52 AM, Marie Earley  wrote:

> Intersectionality is the name for it
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality
>
> ... and this is what it looks like in practice
> http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/womens-blog/2014/mar/31/laura-bates-everyday-sexism-double-discrimination-intersectionality
>
> Marie
>
> --
> From: emilymonro...@gmail.com
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2014 22:51:22 -0500
> To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about
> Gendergap on the English Wikipedia
>
>
> On the other hand, I'd like to point out that the thread topic had already
> drifted to internet comments when I commented. I'm not sure why I was
> singled out.
>
> And yes, what Janine-- someone who is sexist is also likely to be ablelist
> (spelling?), racist, classist, etc.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Janine Starykowicz <
> jrst...@barntowire.com> wrote:
>
> Is there really a type of misogyny that stands alone from other nastiness?
> In my experience, those who make comments against women also do about other
> races, ethnics, sexual orientations, classes, etc.
>
> The problem with misogyny on Wikipedia is probably more that it is easier
> to know if another editor is a woman vs. any of the other biases.
>
> Aside from having everyone use non-feminine usernames and not divulge
> personal information, I'm not sure what else would work if this is the case.
>
> Janine
>
> Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> Actually, I think that's true for all minorities--I know the comment
> section in the online edition of one of my local
> newspapers can turn pretty ugly if an article is written about a black guy
> getting arrested. That's less likely to happen if
> the suspect is white.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Valerie Aurora  <mailto:vale...@adainitiative.org>> wrote:
>
> Abusive comments are a gender thing. Stories about or by women are
> more likely to get abusive comments, in public and private, based
> solely on the gender of the subject or the author.
>
> -VAL
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about Gendergap on the English Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

Nathan,

While I agree I shouldn't be admonished for "being the fourth in a row"
(then again, I'm biased, so take that with an entire salt shaker), I don't
think Val meant to be condescending, just like I didn't mean to derail the
conversation.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:57 PM, Nathan  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:56 PM, Leigh Honeywell 
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Nathan  wrote:
>> > Hi Val,
>> >
>> > The discussion at that point was about Internet commenters. As you may
>> know, that's not quite how Wikimedia projects work, and certainly the
>> discussion wasn't referring to commenters on a Wikimedia project. Emily
>> can't be blamed for the discussion going off the gendergap topic.
>> >
>> > When you ask someone not to comment, or not to make comments that in no
>> way violate any behavioral norms, you make the list a less welcoming place
>> for that person and others to express themselves. Discussion on this list
>> (and any Wikimedia list) should be open, and civil participants should be
>> engaged and not shushed. If you want to make the argument that anonymous
>> comments disproportionately affect and hurt women, and contribute to gender
>> gaps in many areas of the Internet, please feel free. You'd be right to do
>> so, in my opinion, and you can do that without discouraging Emily from
>> posting her thoughts.
>> >
>> > Nathan
>>
>> Donning my mod hat here for a moment.
>>
>> Asking people to prioritize the topic of the list (addressing the
>> gender gap) is not "shushing", and it is rude of you to dismiss the
>> substance of Val's criticism as that. I will be placing you on
>> moderation if I see anything like that again.
>>
>> There is always a balance to be struck between tangents and focused
>> discussion. I am happy that we've had this thread to remind us all of
>> what our purpose is here - to discuss solutions to the gender gap.
>>
>> -Leigh
>>
>>
>
> You're entitled to your opinion, Leigh, but I stand by my assessment that
> by being the 4th person in a row to post about Internet commenters on a
> non-Wikimedia site, Emily was not responsible for moving the topic away
> from the gendergap and Val was incorrect to admonish her for doing so.
>
> But perhaps it's the intention that participation on this list be severely
> constrained, where posters should worry after each post that they'll be
> "corrected" condescendingly and / or threatened with moderation for
> disagreeing with another participant. If that's the case, I for one am
> happy to predict that the gendergap list will never achieve a sliver of its
> goal (not that it has up til now, of course).
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about Gendergap on the English Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

On the other hand, I'd like to point out that the thread topic had already
drifted to internet comments when I commented. I'm not sure why I was
singled out.

And yes, what Janine-- someone who is sexist is also likely to be ablelist
(spelling?), racist, classist, etc.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Janine Starykowicz 
wrote:

> Is there really a type of misogyny that stands alone from other nastiness?
> In my experience, those who make comments against women also do about other
> races, ethnics, sexual orientations, classes, etc.
>
> The problem with misogyny on Wikipedia is probably more that it is easier
> to know if another editor is a woman vs. any of the other biases.
>
> Aside from having everyone use non-feminine usernames and not divulge
> personal information, I'm not sure what else would work if this is the case.
>
> Janine
>
> Emily Monroe wrote:
>
>> Actually, I think that's true for all minorities--I know the comment
>> section in the online edition of one of my local
>> newspapers can turn pretty ugly if an article is written about a black
>> guy getting arrested. That's less likely to happen if
>> the suspect is white.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Valerie Aurora > <mailto:vale...@adainitiative.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Abusive comments are a gender thing. Stories about or by women are
>> more likely to get abusive comments, in public and private, based
>> solely on the gender of the subject or the author.
>>
>> -VAL
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about Gendergap on the English Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

Actually, I think that's true for all minorities--I know the comment
section in the online edition of one of my local newspapers can turn pretty
ugly if an article is written about a black guy getting arrested. That's
less likely to happen if the suspect is white.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Valerie Aurora 
wrote:

> Abusive comments are a gender thing. Stories about or by women are
> more likely to get abusive comments, in public and private, based
> solely on the gender of the subject or the author.
>
> -VAL
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Emily Monroe 
> wrote:
> > I doubt that the comments issue is even a gender thing. Comment sections
> are
> > pretty non-discriminatory in regards to starting up drama.
> >
> > From,
> > Emily
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Sarah Stierch 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Never read the comments. Never .
> >>
> >> On Jul 8, 2014 6:50 PM, "Keilana"  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If only, Tom. I would be shocked if that ever got removed.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:15 AM, Tom Morris  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> That’s really cool.
> >>>>
> >>>> (Just don’t read the comments. Awful misogyny contained therein. Is
> >>>> there any way we can get that crap removed?)
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Tom Morris
> >>>> <http://tommorris.org/>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Original message -
> >>>> From: Jane Darnell 
> >>>> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> >>>> 
> >>>> Subject: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about
> >>>> Gendergap on the English Wikipedia
> >>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 12:54:55 +0200
> >>>>
> >>>> In case you missed it, the Signpost this week gives a link to this:
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8QCG7keQw
> >>>> _
> >>>> Gendergap mailing list
> >>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>>>
> >>>> ___
> >>>> Gendergap mailing list
> >>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Gendergap mailing list
> >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Gendergap mailing list
> >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Valerie Aurora
> Executive Director
>
> You can help increase the participation of women in open technology and
> culture!
> Donate today at http://adainitiative.org/donate/
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about Gendergap on the English Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

I doubt that the comments issue is even a gender thing. Comment sections
are pretty non-discriminatory in regards to starting up drama.

From,
Emily


On Tue, Jul 8, 2014 at 10:01 PM, Sarah Stierch 
wrote:

> Never read the comments. Never .
> On Jul 8, 2014 6:50 PM, "Keilana"  wrote:
>
>> If only, Tom. I would be shocked if that ever got removed.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 6:15 AM, Tom Morris  wrote:
>>
>>> That’s really cool.
>>>
>>> (Just don’t read the comments. Awful misogyny contained therein. Is
>>> there any way we can get that crap removed?)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Morris
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original message -
>>> From: Jane Darnell 
>>> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
>>> 
>>> Subject: [Gendergap] Adrienne Wadewitz featured in short piece about
>>> Gendergap on the English Wikipedia
>>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 12:54:55 +0200
>>>
>>> In case you missed it, the Signpost this week gives a link to this:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP8QCG7keQw
>>> _
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
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>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Moderation and the future of Gendergap-L

[Emily Monroe]

Oh. Oh my. You mean that there's a name besides "Emily" that people share?
;-)

Back to your normal programming.

From,
Emily


On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Jeremy Baron  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:03 AM, Marie Earley  wrote:
> > Gosh, I did make a pig's ear out of it didn't I. I didn't realize the
> list
> > had two Sarahs on it.
>
> More than two I'm sure :-)
>
> Thank you Wiktionary: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_a_pig%27s_ear_of
>
> -Jeremy
>
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Re: [Gendergap] A reason to celebrate

[Emily Monroe]

Just a correction:

Helen Keller lost her sight and hearing as a young toddler/older infant (a
year and a half, I think) due to illness; she wasn't born deaf-blind.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 7:08 AM, Shlomi Fish  wrote:

> Hi Christine,
>
> On Sun, 8 Jun 2014 22:16:17 -0700
> Christine Meyer  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Yes, I'm responsible for the Angelou article.  I must say, when I saw the
> > view counts in the Signpost, I was overwhelmed and honored that for my
> part
> > in bringing Dr. Angelou's bio article, as well as all seven of her
> > autobiographies, the list of her works, and articles about her poetry and
> > themes in her autobiographies, all to FA status.  I also feel proud that
> > the English WP honored this great artist with high-quality articles when
> > the world most needed them.
> >
>
> Many thanks for your work on it. Here's a photo of a kitten whom I found
> very
> cute as a token of my appreciation:
>
> * http://imgur.com/NmQOgTH
>
> Love you (♥)!
>
> Regards,
>
> Shlomi Fish
>
> --
> -
> Shlomi Fish   http://www.shlomifish.org/
>
> I feel much better, now that I’ve given up hope.
> — Ashleigh Brilliant
>
> Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Hotties are always hot

[Emily Monroe]

Certainly there's a better way to critique notability in ways that aren't
sexualized?

From,
Emily


On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Nathan  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 9:23 PM, Risker  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Just for the record:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GlassCobra/Essays/Hotties_are_always_notableis
>>  now the link. I've removed the shortcut because shortcuts are only
>> supposed to be used in Wikipedia space, and this sure as heck doesn't
>> belong in Wikipedia space!
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>>
> WP:HOTTIE continues to function (it's a redirect). It looks like you just
> removed the notice of the shortcut from the essay.
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Hotties are always hot

[Emily Monroe]

It might turn them off from editing Wikipedia if they believe in respecting
women.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Nathan  wrote:

>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
>> What concerns me is that a newbie, with a penchant of getting on the
>> "weird sides" of websites like I do, might find it.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>>
> What about that concerns you? Incidentally I've nom'd the redirect for
> deletion.
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Gendergap] Hotties are always hot

[Emily Monroe]

What concerns me is that a newbie, with a penchant of getting on the "weird
sides" of websites like I do, might find it.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> Meh, it's a relic of a different era on Wikipedia. Almost all of the
> people who have edited are, like GlassCobra, admins or former admins. Its
> also in his userspace, not the Wikipedia: namespace.
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Hotties are always hot

[Emily Monroe]

Er, at least there's males listed under the "see also" section. That
doesn't change my opinion of this "essay", though. It's clearly sexist.

Perhaps talk to GlassCobra about this?

From,
Emily


On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

> Stumbled across this tonight.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:HOTTIE
>
> I have never seen that before!
>
> "For example, as a general rule, girls named Tiffany and Alicia are
> almost always hot. Girls named Bertha and Bessie... not so much."
>
> --
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Museumist, open culture advocate, and Wikimedian*
> *www.sarahstierch.com *
>
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Re: [Gendergap] moderation update

[Emily Monroe]

I only hope that the auto-filtering works as it should. Thanks for updating
us.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Risker  wrote:

> I entirely sympathize with the list moderators here; I moderate several
> other lists, and the amount of spam coming in has gotten ridiculous.  It's
> not unusual to get 50 spam messages a day on most lists, and even more on
> lists like wikimedia-l or wik-en-l - or some of the email addresses feeding
> into OTRS.
>
> I think this comes down to some fundamental issues with filtering of spam
> at the systems level, and it might be worthwhile to put in a bugzilla to
> see if better spam filtering throughout the Mailman system can be added
> in.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 30 October 2013 11:59, Lane Rasberry  wrote:
>
>>  Kevin,
>>
>> What you propose is entirely reasonable. I support your idea of
>> autofiltering spam.
>>
>> yours,
>>
>>
>>  On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:
>>
>>>  Hey all -
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, we've become the target of some pretty serious spammers.
>>>  I've been getting a very large number of held for moderation email
>>> messages each day, and only one in a hundred are legitimate messages.  I'm
>>> going to adjust our spam filters later tonight to hopefully let a higher
>>> number of the messages that are legitimate through, but after that, I'm
>>> going to start autofiltering the spam notifications out and not reading
>>> them.  I hate to do so, but there are just too many of them.
>>>
>>> If you send a message to the list and it doesn't get through, please
>>> email me personally so I can approve it.  Additionally, if you're a member
>>> who has been moderated and send an email to the list, please drop me a
>>> personal email as well, so that I can approve it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kevin Gorman
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Lane Rasberry
>> user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia
>> 206.801.0814
>> l...@bluerasberry.com
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Equanity and Sameness

[Emily Monroe]

My thoughts exactly.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 9:47 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:

> Hi John -
>
> I'm tired so I could have just missed someting, but I'm not not really
> sure how you got your post out of Emily's post, or for that matter, out of
> the rest of the thread.  A discussion about archaic gendered terminology
> (and face it, aviatrix is archaic) is not an attempt to define all genders
> as the same, and equally, it is not an attempt to invalidate anyone's
> gender identity.  Invalidating someone's gender identity is a very serious
> problem; please don't suggest that someone has done so without very clearly
> explaining what you mean. (And by serious problem, I mean that if I see a
> situation occur on this list where I honestly feel that someone is
> attempting to invalidate someone else's gender identity, things are going
> to go BOOM.)
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin Gorman
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:05 PM, john allyn  wrote:
>
>> Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous. It
>> is not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female as the
>> same. This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because each will
>> be invalidated for who they are.
>>
>>   --
>>  *From:* "gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org" <
>> gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2013 6:00 AM
>> *Subject:* Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 10
>>
>> Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
>> gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9 (john allyn)
>>   2. Re: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9 (Emily Monroe)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:21:07 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: john allyn 
>> To: "gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org" 
>> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
>> Message-ID:
>> <1379366467.96269.yahoomail...@web120001.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous. It
>> is not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female as the
>> same. This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because each will
>> be invalidated for who they are.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: "gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org" <
>> gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> To: gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:00 AM
>> Subject: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
>>
>>
>> Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
>> gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Re: Archaic gendered terminology (Lane Rasberry)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:43:47 -0400
>> From: Lane Rasberry 
>> To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the
>> participationof women within Wikimedia projects."
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Archaic gendered terminology
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I expec

Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9

[Emily Monroe]

I'm not sure how anybody implied that males and females are the same. The
fact is,"-tress" words are becoming archiac, and Wikipedia needs to reflect
that.

On Monday, September 16, 2013, john allyn wrote:

> Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous. It
> is not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female as the
> same. This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because each will
> be invalidated for who they are.
>
>
>   --
>  *From:* "gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org  'cvml', 'gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org');>" <
> gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org  'gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org');>>
> *To:* gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org  'gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org');>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2013 6:00 AM
> *Subject:* Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
>
> Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
> gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org  'gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org');>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org  'gendergap-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org');>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org  'gendergap-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org');>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Archaic gendered terminology (Lane Rasberry)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:43:47 -0400
> From: Lane Rasberry  'l...@bluerasberry.com');>>
> To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the
> participationof women within Wikimedia projects."
>  'gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org');>>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Archaic gendered terminology
> Message-ID:
> 
>   'cvml', 'mk0ehkuaez...@mail.gmail.com');>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello,
>
> I expect that many people will continue to use the term "actress" for
> females in the profession. I notice that the Amy Johnson discussion raises
> that.
>
> A couple of years ago I got to review an elementary English textbook being
> distributed in very large numbers in North India. It was an original work
> seemingly derived from public domain content and had a section on gendered
> nouns, including "negro" and "negress". I looked at the time for a style
> guide on best practices for gendered term and I could not find anything
> clear when I looked then, but obviously there is bad information to be
> found online among the public domain texts and it really grated on me that
> new print works were being distributed to teach children such things.
>
> We might not be so far from the day when someone could publish a Wikipedia
> Manual of Style and expect it to be an authoritative text. I am not sure
> what the right answer is in this case but whatever you find please consider
> noting on the manual of style because this question will come up again.
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Gobonobo 
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I've been going through a lot of historical biographies lately and am
> > surprised to see how often archaic gendered terms such as poetess,
> > sculptress, and aviatrix crop up in Wikipedia articles. I know some of
> > these come from the older sources such as the 1911 Britannica, but in
> other
> > cases their inclusion is the result of decisions being made by editors.
> > There's currently a discussion on [[Talk:Amy Johnson]] over whether she
> > should be referred to as an aviatrix, for instance.
> >
> > I'm wondering how this has been dealt with previously and if there are
> > specific policies surrounding such uses. I've found the essays
> > [[Wikipedia:Gender-neutral language]] and [[Wikipedia:Use modern
> language]]
> > and note that [[WP:MOS]] says "use gender-neutral language where this can
> > be done with clarity and precision". It seems as if despite these fairly
> > clear precepts, the use of these terms persists.
> >
> > Are there any archaic terms where it has been broadly agreed that using
> > them is not encyclopedic? I would be much obliged if anyone could point
> me
> > to previous discussions about this.
> >
> > ~Gobonobo
> >
> > __**_
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org  'Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org');>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/gendergap<
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lane Rasberry
> 206.801.0814
> l...@bluerasberry.com  'l...@bluerasberry.com');>
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20130915/e13270c7/attach

Re: [Gendergap] Women on the list: what have you been editing lately?

[Emily Monroe]

I tend to avoid AfC, and #wikipedia-en-help because the people who tend to
it also tend to really violate WP:OWN in a good-faith and incompetent
manner. I'm sure the majority of articles in AfC will eventually pass
muster, even if they don't when they are first reviewed. The few who can't
is what makes me very, very wary of helping with AfC backlog.

I tend towards new and random page patrol, and vandal fighting myself. I've
somewhat recently downloaded Huggle on my mac. There was some issues with
Huggle starting at first ("Huggle needed to shut down" kind of messages),
but since Wine Bottler updated, I haven't had any issues with that.

From,
Emily


On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 11:57 AM, Carol Moore DC
wrote:

> On 5/18/2013 12:35 PM, Jane Darnell wrote:
>
>> Good luck with the AfC backlog Sarah - it depresses me to just think
>> about that.
>>
>>
>>  *Wow, I didn't even know it existed. So there actually are people who
> will create an article (of interest to them) if you put up some refs, maybe
> an outline.  I have a bunch of folders with that sort of thing just keeping
> adding refs to but never get around to...
>
> Definitely something to help increase number of women-related articles
> (though not too many of mine are).
>
> Or increase our ability to generate them, especially those who may be have
> more enthusiasm for the referencing stage than the writing and defending
> edits stages...
>
>
> __**_
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Emily Monroe]

Good enough for this new page patroller!

From,
Emily


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  There are plenty! She was notable before this incident happened. She's
> been covered/interviewed in *multiple secondary reliable sources*.
>
> -Sarah
> /who always likes a challenge.
>
>
> On 3/30/13 12:58 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> On the other hand, we need a secondary source that is more reliable than
> Facebook or Twitter.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> Awesome! Nice article. I think she is OK on the notability front.
>> Anyone who manages to accumulate more than 4 million *science*
>> followers on facebook without posting regularly on sexual subjects is
>> definitely noteworthy enough for Wikipedia. Add to that this strange
>> development on the swear-word gender miscommunication and you pass on
>> the basis of "most bizarre gendergap content to be published in 2013".
>>
>> 2013/3/30, Ilona Buchem :
>> > Hi Sarah,
>> >
>> > I am following this discussion and it's interesting to see that deciding
>> > about an entry is not straight-forward even to "core insiders". I wonder
>> > what criteria help decide if something or someone is "worth" an article
>> > in WP. How do you decide? Or: What makes it worth it or nor?
>> >
>> > -Ilona
>> >
>> > Am 3/30/13 5:17 PM, schrieb Sarah Stierch:
>> >> Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to
>> >> write new articles on this mailing list.
>> >>
>> >> Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or
>> >> content could be placed? I think we could even build an article about
>> >> I Fucking Love Science instead.
>> >>
>> >> I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't
>> >> researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people
>> >> most declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the
>> >> curator in me!)
>> >>
>> >> -Sarah
>> >>
>> >> On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
>> >>> It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a
>> >>> Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails
>> WP:NOTNEWS.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell >  >>> <mailto:jane...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than
>> 4
>> >>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew,
>> >>> had no
>> >>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
>> >>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the
>> bias
>> >>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
>> >>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
>> >>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
>> >>>
>> >>> article is here:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
>> >>> facebook page here:
>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
>> >>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
>> >>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Gendergap mailing list
>>  >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
>> >>>
>> >>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy
>> >>> food and clothes."
>> >>>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Gendergap mailing list
>> >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>>  >> *Sarah Stierch*
>> >> */Museumist and open culture advocate/*
>> >> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <http://sarahstierch.com><<
>>  >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Gendergap mailing list
>> >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> Gendergap mailing list
>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> Gendergap mailing 
> listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <http://sarahstierch.com><<
>
> ___
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Re: [Gendergap] I f***ing love science

[Emily Monroe]

On the other hand, we need a secondary source that is more reliable than
Facebook or Twitter.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Awesome! Nice article. I think she is OK on the notability front.
> Anyone who manages to accumulate more than 4 million *science*
> followers on facebook without posting regularly on sexual subjects is
> definitely noteworthy enough for Wikipedia. Add to that this strange
> development on the swear-word gender miscommunication and you pass on
> the basis of "most bizarre gendergap content to be published in 2013".
>
> 2013/3/30, Ilona Buchem :
> > Hi Sarah,
> >
> > I am following this discussion and it's interesting to see that deciding
> > about an entry is not straight-forward even to "core insiders". I wonder
> > what criteria help decide if something or someone is "worth" an article
> > in WP. How do you decide? Or: What makes it worth it or nor?
> >
> > -Ilona
> >
> > Am 3/30/13 5:17 PM, schrieb Sarah Stierch:
> >> Oh Michael, the bearer of bad news about people who generally want to
> >> write new articles on this mailing list.
> >>
> >> Is there another article where we think this type of coverage or
> >> content could be placed? I think we could even build an article about
> >> I Fucking Love Science instead.
> >>
> >> I still question if it's officially not worth an article, I haven't
> >> researched it yet. But, at this point I'm a "pro" at making people
> >> most declare non-notable rather notable based on research. (Oh the
> >> curator in me!)
> >>
> >> -Sarah
> >>
> >> On 3/30/13 6:08 AM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
> >>> It's appalling and depressing; but if somebody were to write a
> >>> Wikipedia article about it, at this point, I'd say it fails WP:NOTNEWS.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:52 AM, Jane Darnell  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Did anyone see this? A popular blogger on Science (with more than 4
> >>> million followers) is a woman. The woman herself, Elise Andrew,
> >>> had no
> >>> idea it was a secret, and she was "outed" when she announced her
> >>> twitter account featuring a picture of herself. Apparently the bias
> >>> occurred because of the swear word on her facebook page which made
> >>> readers assume she was a man. Interesting conclusion! This is a
> >>> facebook hype that deserves a WP page, no?
> >>>
> >>> article is here:
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/us-news-blog/2013/mar/20/i-love-science-woman-facbook
> >>> facebook page here:
> >>> http://www.facebook.com/IFeakingLoveScience
> >>> The TV interview with Dr. Michio Kaku on CBS morning show is here:
> >>> http://cbsn.ws/109mAEL
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Gendergap mailing list
> >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org  Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org>
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
> >>>
> >>> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy
> >>> food and clothes."
> >>>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Gendergap mailing list
> >>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Sarah Stierch*
> >> */Museumist and open culture advocate/*
> >> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Gendergap mailing list
> >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
> >
> >
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
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Re: [Gendergap] TFA for March 16

[Emily Monroe]

I didn't know there was a museum dedicated to penises, but I can't say that
I'm surprised that it exists--we, as a global society, tend to think about
that part of anatomy a lot.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 2:59 PM, Christine Meyer
wrote:

> I hafta ask: what does everyone think of Today's Featured Article on
> Wikipedia?  I will go on the record by saying that I love it.  It's witty
> and one of the best-written things I've read on WP.
>
> Christine
> --
> Christine W. Meyer
> User: Figureskatingfan
> christinewme...@gmail.com
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Job offer: Secretary-General for Chapters Association

[Emily Monroe]

Just FYI,

I'm not sure why, but this email was in my spam folder. I'm not sure why.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 5:18 AM, Nicole Ebber wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> sorry for crossposting, but I think this job add is worth spreading
> throughout the whole movement – and beyond. So please feel free to
> forward it to any friend, village pump, mailing list or social media
> site of your choice.
>
> For reference, you can find the ad here:
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Chapters_Association/Election_committee/Secretary_General_job_description
>
> Thanks a lot and best regards,
> Nicole
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Markus Glaser 
> Date: 26 January 2013 16:49
> Subject: [Chapters] Job offer: Secretary-General for Chapters Association
> To: Wikimedia Chapters general discussions 
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> after a long period of discussions and clarifications, we are now
> finally starting our search for a Secretary-General to serve the
> Chapters Association.
> Please distribute to following text to as many of your contacts,
> mailing-lists  and networks as possible.
>
> Thank you very much,
> kind regards,
>
> Markus
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> --
>
> The Chapters Association (CA) will be an umbrella organization for
> Wikimedia chapters established in various regions around the world.
> The association represents the common interests of those chapters
> within the Wikimedia movement.
>
> One of its goals is to set, review and enforce standards of
> accountability and participation among its members. The association
> will facilitate the exchange of experiences, ideas, and knowledge
> between chapters and assist them in their organizational development
> and to develop common programs and projects.
>
>
> To enhance external communication, coordinate the Wikimedia movement
> and represent its chapters on official occasions, CA is looking for an
> experienced and motivated person to become the full-time
>
> Secretary-General (f/m)
>
> of the Chapters Association.
> CA is incorporated in Geneva, however depending on your place of
> residence a relocation might not be necessary.
>
> Job description
>
> The Secretary-General is to be head of the CA´s Secretariat as defined
> by the CA´s charter. The Secretariat performs the executive powers of
> the Association. The Secretary-General will be elected by the Council.
> The other Members of the Secretariat are appointed by the
> Secretary-General, with the consent of the Council. The Secretariat
> reports to the Council on the Association's activities and has the
> right to submit proposals for Council resolutions.
>
> She/He will be responsible for:
>
> Defining the organizational structure, publishing job offers and
> hiring the officers of the secretariat;
> Building the strategic plan for the association;
> Assuring the financial stability of the organization;
> Coordinating between all association members;
> Building annual program plans to achieve the CA mission;
> Handling all formal administrative tasks including finance,
> communications, legal and technical;
> and preparing the assemblies of the CA council.
>
> Desired personal traits
>
>
> Leader – the selected Secretary-General will have to build the
> organization from its earliest stages according to the outlines set by
> the CA council.
> Administrator – some of the tasks of the Secretary-General would be of
> administrative nature. She/He would have to write detailed program
> plans, review by-laws, financial reports, program plans and program
> reports of other organizations.
> Excellent communication skills – one of the the Secretary-General's
> primary tasks would be to communicate with member chapters. Those
> chapters are dispersed in different regions of the worlds representing
> various cultural habits. The selected Secretary-General would have to
> be multi-culturally-minded to work effectively with these partners.
> Willing and able to travel world-wide.
> Proven experience with building and managing a large diverse organization.
> Comfortable working with people at all levels of the organization,
> including community members and volunteers.
> Experience in other like-minded/ international/ volunteer-driven/
> non-profit/ peer-review-driven organizations would be considered as an
> advantage.
>
>
> The ideal candidate will be hard-working, creative, highly-motivated,
> and able to operate and effectively manage multiple cultural contexts,
> time-zones and expectations
> Incredible diplomatic problem-solving skills in an international
> environment as well as the ability to deal comfortably and efficiently
> with ambiguity and an ever changing environment
>
>
> Must be fluent in English; skill in other languages would be
> considered as an advantage.
>
>
> Great to have
>
> University degree
> Experience within the Wikimedia movement. However, according to CA´s
> charter a Member of the Secretariat cannot be a Counc

Re: [Gendergap] Free as in sexist? Free culture and the gender gap by Joseph Reagle

[Emily Monroe]

>
> (I do realize that Asperger's and other afflictions along the autism spectrum
> are supposed to be somewhat gender-linked.)


Just as clarification:

As someone who has atypically-manifesting autism, I participate in an
internet community for people who are in various points of having, needing,
and wanting a diagnosis for autism. While there's a disproportionate number
of men within it, I believe the gender gap within that community is closer
than society would want you to believe.

But Mike, I think you understand the gray-area concept.

From,
Emily

On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:28 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:

> Did you ever encounter the hypothesis that science fiction fandom, in
> some ways the ur-culture of most modern geek culture, arose among and
> is most congenial to persons with at least a marginal case of
> Asperger's, and that this shapes the manners and customs of discourse?
> (I do realize that Asperger's and other afflictions along the autism
> spectrum are supposed to be somewhat gender-linked.)
>



From,
Emily
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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

Yeah, I remember that.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:14 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  One little note - I did utilize these userboxes when inviting female
> editors (or presumed female) to participate in my Women and Wikimedia
> survey last year.
>
> -Sarah
>
>
> On 9/24/12 4:09 PM, Pete Forsyth wrote:
>
> Yeah, I agree with John, those sorts of question becomes easier to answer
> when there's more immediate information available (even if the information
> isn't perfect or complete).
>
>  In addition, I can imagine that exploring the category and looking at
> user pages might inspire the formulation of more detailed questions.
>
>  As an analogy, today I was reading a biography of political analyst Nate
> Silver, famous for being the first to call the 2008 U.S. presidential
> election. One of his earlier claims to fame, as a baseball statistician,
> was extending the work of Bill James, a famous baseball statistician. He
> looked for patterns in pitching performance that took into account physical
> characteristics -- e.g., height and weight.
>
>  I would guess that Silver's inspiration to start that project originated
> with the greater accessibility of data in his era (the 2000s) than James'
> era (the 1980s).
>
>  In other words: if you remove obstacles, surprising things can happen.
>
>  In one case, you can end up with a huge and fascinating encyclopedia.
> Perhaps in another, you can end up with useful research about gender and
> Wikipedia.
>
>  Removing barriers isn't a measurable benefit in itself, but it can
> support the emergence of things that are beneficial.
>
>  -Pete
> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>
>  On Sep 24, 2012, at 4:02 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> Well, I am a GED graduate on disability, if that helps.
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:01 PM, John Vandenberg  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Emily Monroe 
>> wrote:
>> > So, what are the questions?
>>
>>  Why do women start?  Why do women quit?  Is it different from reasons
>> men quit?
>>
>> Is there a sector where outreach has a higher conversion rate into
>> Wikipedian Women?
>>
>> Is there an age bracket where outreach has a higher conversion rate
>> into Wikipedian Women?
>>
>> (e.g.)  I suspect that our women typically come from glam & education,
>> whereas our men typically come from IT & law.
>>
>> --
>> John Vandenberg
>>
>> ___
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>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>
>  ___
> Gendergap mailing list
> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>   Pete Forsyth
> petefors...@gmail.com
> 503-383-9454 mobile
>
>
>
> ___
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> listGendergap@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <http://sarahstierch.com><<
>
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>
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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

Well, I am a GED graduate on disability, if that helps.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:01 PM, John Vandenberg  wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 5:49 AM, Emily Monroe 
> wrote:
> > So, what are the questions?
>
> Why do women start?  Why do women quit?  Is it different from reasons men
> quit?
>
> Is there a sector where outreach has a higher conversion rate into
> Wikipedian Women?
>
> Is there an age bracket where outreach has a higher conversion rate
> into Wikipedian Women?
>
> (e.g.)  I suspect that our women typically come from glam & education,
> whereas our men typically come from IT & law.
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

So, what are the questions?

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Pete Forsyth  wrote:

> To me it seems beneficial to have a broadly accessible opportunity to
> formulate and answer questions about self-identified women on Wikipedia.
> The benefit is in empowering researchers and our community to pursue
> interesting questions -- but by definition, we don't know what the
> questions are yet :)
>
> -Pete
> [[User:Peteforsyth]]
>
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 3:39 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>
> > On 9/24/12 3:37 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
> >> So. The implications of this. Good, bad, or does it really achieve
> anything?
> >>
> >> From,
> >> Emily
> >
> > I'm not sure if there really is any good or bad implication, so to say.
> All it shows is that, in theory, there are approximately 1700 people in
> English Wikipedia who may identify as a female.
> >
> > I wonder how many of these editors are active.
> >
> > -Sarah
> >
> > --
> > Sarah Stierch
> > ___
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

Well, a few of my previous accounts may in there, but I put {{Abadoned
account}} on all of them, so...

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  On 9/24/12 3:37 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> So. The implications of this. Good, bad, or does it really achieve
> anything?
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> I'm not sure if there really is any good or bad implication, so to say.
> All it shows is that, in theory, there are approximately 1700 people in
> English Wikipedia who may identify as a female.
>
> I wonder how many of these editors are active.
>
> -Sarah
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

So. The implications of this. Good, bad, or does it really achieve anything?

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  On 9/24/12 3:35 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> "Those infoboxes"? You mean, the kind that I have on my userpage? Or
> userboxes?
>
>  GAH. I meant userboxes.
>
> DOH! :)
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
>  From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>
>>
>> LOL. Wow, explosion is right.
>>
>> Yes, it looks like something magically added anyone who has those
>> infoboxes to the list.
>>
>> Ha ha!
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>>
>> On 9/24/12 3:32 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Female_Wikipedians
>>
>> How did we go from a dozen to 1,700?  Some other category got renamed and
>> redirected?
>>
>> Or some bot added everyone who had one of the user boxes in that
>> category??
>>
>> Looked at a few and didn't see evidence someone manually added them all.
>>
>> FYI.
>>
>> CM
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>>
>>
>>   --
>> *Sarah Stierch*
>> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
>> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <http://sarahstierch.com><<
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <http://sarahstierch.com><<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

"Those infoboxes"? You mean, the kind that I have on my userpage? Or
userboxes?

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>
> LOL. Wow, explosion is right.
>
> Yes, it looks like something magically added anyone who has those
> infoboxes to the list.
>
> Ha ha!
>
> -Sarah
>
>
> On 9/24/12 3:32 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Female_Wikipedians
>
> How did we go from a dozen to 1,700?  Some other category got renamed and
> redirected?
>
> Or some bot added everyone who had one of the user boxes in that
> category??
>
> Looked at a few and didn't see evidence someone manually added them all.
>
> FYI.
>
> CM
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Museumist and open culture advocate*
> >>Visit sarahstierch.com <<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Explosion in listings... Re: Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

I added myself (I dream of horses) manually, if using HotCat can be seen as
"manual".

But yeah, that is a bit suspicious. What happened?

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Category:Female_Wikipedians
>
> How did we go from a dozen to 1,700?  Some other category got renamed and
> redirected?
>
> Or some bot added everyone who had one of the user boxes in that category??
>
> Looked at a few and didn't see evidence someone manually added them all.
>
> FYI.
>
> CM
>
> __**_
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Re: [Gendergap] Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

>
> There is no male Wikipedian category. JUst like there aren't "men's
> history" classes because history has been written about and by men for the
> majority of time ;) It's that same type of thing.


It might partially the same thing, but not entirely. There's another reason
why Category:Male Wikipedians doesn't exist: WP:MYSPACE.

If the WP:MYSPACErs' are vigilant enough, Category:Female Wikipedia is
going to get deleted eventually.

From,
Emily


On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 5:25 PM, Thomas Morton
wrote:

> I'd suggest having a different category for that. (although I am not sure
> it is utile in the first place).
>
> To avoid the mix up of back end admin and academic content.
>
> Tom Morton
>
> On 9 Sep 2012, at 23:21, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>
>  Oh, sorry, I meant to say the Wikipedia articles about people who are
> Wikipedians :)
>
> Both of them have Wikipedia articles and also state on their Wikipedian
> user pages that they are who they are.
>
> -Sarah
>
> On 9/9/12 2:30 PM, Risker wrote:
>
> Umm, please don't do that.  Users themselves should be the sole deciders
> of what categories they wish to link to.  For example, I hope nobody puts
> that category on my userpage, and if they do it will be removed as soon as
> I can log in.
>
> Some people deliberately choose not to categorize themselves.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
> On 9 September 2012 17:10, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>
>>
>> Don't forget, you can also add the category to any women you might know
>> who have Wikipedia articles and are Wikipedians.
>> Such as Sue or Valerie!
>>
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>> --
>> *Sarah Stierch*
>> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
>> >>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate 
>> >>today
>> <<
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
> >>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate 
> >>today
> <<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Category: Female Wikipedians

[Emily Monroe]

I think the argument behind deleting this category is WP:MYSPACE, which
isn't really sexist. I mean, I think it's taking WP:MYSPACE too far,
personally, but still.

Just FYI, I just tried to search for "male wikipedians" and couldn't find
it. Anyone have better luck?

From,
Emily


On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Netha Hussain wrote:

> I think Sarah's point was that one could add this category to the
> Wikipedia articles on women Wikipedians, and not on their userpages.
>
> Of course, I do not want anybody to put any category on my userpage too.
> But if an article about me existed on Wikipedia, it is not under my control
> to choose which category that page should belong to.
>
> And yes, I added Category : Female Wikipedians to my userpage a few
> minutes ago :)
>
> Netha
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 3:00 AM, Risker  wrote:
>
>> Umm, please don't do that.  Users themselves should be the sole deciders
>> of what categories they wish to link to.  For example, I hope nobody puts
>> that category on my userpage, and if they do it will be removed as soon as
>> I can log in.
>>
>> Some people deliberately choose not to categorize themselves.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>> On 9 September 2012 17:10, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Don't forget, you can also add the category to any women you might know
>>> who have Wikipedia articles and are Wikipedians.
>>> Such as Sue or Valerie!
>>>
>>>
>>> -Sarah
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Sarah Stierch*
>>> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
>>> >>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate 
>>> >>today
>>> <<
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Gendergap mailing list
>>> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Netha Hussain
> Student of Medicine and Surgery
> Govt. Medical College, Kozhikode
> Blogs : *nethahussain.blogspot.com
> swethaambari.wordpress.com*
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] *thread kill* Re: Apologies from the Parlympic Games Opening Ceremonies for making others uncomfortable

[Emily Monroe]

Even if I *don't* participate in the list more often, I'd be more
comfortable doing so if the mod team really is going to be more aggressive
about civility.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Beria has been unsubscribed from the list. This was moderator decision,
> not just on my end.
>
> Sorry that your email box had to be the victim of this and I hope all of
> you - wherever you live, and whatever your gender of choice is, can move
> beyond the recent conflict.
>
> From here on out if discussions start to get heated and we fail to live up
> to [[WP:CIVIL]] [1] then the moderators will turn whole list moderation on,
> and every email will be moderated until the drama llama is calmed.
>
> Let's be grown ups, work together, and celebrate our collective passion
> for wanting to "mind the gap" regardless of gender, language and location.
> (And let's have fun doing it?! Right?!)
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Sarah
>
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Civil
>
>
>
>
> On 8/29/12 8:02 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>
> I would like to say to the moderator team - especially Sarah who now
> decided to create a "WWC" initiative (and I'm now requesting her to change
> the name) - to fuck off and try to do half of what Laura is doing for women
> in Wikipedia..
>
>  I'm with Laura in this. If this list isn't welcoming to women from
> outside USA, it failed the propose to exist. If isn't a safe place for
> women, it has no reason to exist.
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>
>
> On 29 August 2012 19:56, Emily Monroe  wrote:
>
>> I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:
>>
>>> I am sorry to see Laura go.   Her leaving the list was not requested
>>> by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of
>>> my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she
>>> would like to resubscribe.
>>>
>>> Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private
>>> indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable
>>> participating in public discussions on this list.  After talking with
>>> Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if
>>> her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out,
>>> and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when
>>> they offer it.  (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar
>>> message to.)
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Kevin Gorman
>>>
>>> ___
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>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
> >>Mind the gap! Support Wikipedia women's outreach: donate 
> >>today<https://donate.wikimedia.org/>
> <<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Apologies from the Parlympic Games Opening Ceremonies for making others uncomfortable

[Emily Monroe]

I would like to thank the mod team for intervening, in any case.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:

> I am sorry to see Laura go.   Her leaving the list was not requested
> by the mod team here, and was not the desired or expected outcome of
> my interaction with her. She's welcome back at any point that she
> would like to resubscribe.
>
> Sarah and I have recently been approached by people in private
> indicating that Laura's posting style has made them uncomfortable
> participating in public discussions on this list.  After talking with
> Sarah, I sent Laura an email asking her to step back and consider if
> her messages could make others uncomfortable before sending them out,
> and asking her to take into consideration other people's feedback when
> they offer it.  (She's not the only member who we've sent a similar
> message to.)
>
> ---
> Kevin Gorman
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts

[Emily Monroe]

Kevin,

I would like to thank you for this email. I think you expressed several
things I was thinking a lot better than I would have been able to.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Kevin Gorman  wrote:

> Hi all -
>
> I've been in a significant academic time crunch for the last several
> weeks, and Sarah is currently AFK, which is why neither of us have
> participated in this thread so far.  One of us (Sarah, me, or Cindy,)
> will probably have further comment on this thread in general and may
> reach out to some of you individually in the near future, but I wanted
> to send out a general note that the mods are reading this thread and
> some sort of action is likely to be forthcoming.
>
> For now:
> I agree with Fluffernutter that a lot of the behavior that has
> occurred on this thread is not productive.  I subscribe to this list
> because I believe it should be a place where we can have important
> discussions.  I believe that the gendergap in Wikimedia projects has
> significant real-world implications that need to be addressed to avoid
> significant long term consequences.  I believe that many of the
> subscribers to this list, including many people who have participated
> here, believe the same way.
>
> If you do believe the same way, I would ask that when you start to
> type a post to this list, please consider whether or not your comment
> will benefit our mutual goals, or whether it will harm them. If you
> feel you can't make a comment that will be productive (or at least
> neutral) at any given point, please hold off on sending your email for
> a while - even if it's just for a few hours - to allow tensions and
> feelings on all sides to de-escalate.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin Gorman
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Reminder of Feminism Article Alerts

[Emily Monroe]

It's probably better to avoid arguments of tone online, even if it's a tone
you want to avoid yourself, because it's way too easy to misinterpret
without tonal inflection, or other bits of non-verbal body language. You
may have misinterpreted the tone you're trying to criticize, or they may
have misinterpreted what you're trying to say.

On the other hand, as it's just been demonstrated, just because men are
offended by what a woman is saying doesn't mean that other women aren't
offended as well.

From,
Emily


On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Laura Hale  wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 26/08/2012, at 10:18 PM, Courtney Thurston  wrote:
>
> I'm with ChaoticFluffy. This thread makes me want to slap one of those
> "This insults women" stickers on other *women*.
>
>
> I would personally be less bothered if it was women criticising women
> critically and harshly, but when it looks like man after man criticising
> women and no other female voices in the conversation, that bothers me
> because of the historical overtones regarding male voices in women's
> conversations.
>
> Sincerely,
> Laura Hale
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Maya Angelou

[Emily Monroe]

I think the standard way to name a human subject of a Wikipedia article is
by their bolded full name at the first mention (so *Dr. Maya [middle
name(s)] Angelou*) and then by their last name (Angelou) by then on
.
From,
Emily


On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Valerie Aurora wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Pete Forsyth 
> wrote:
> > On Aug 1, 2012 11:09 AM, "Sarah Stierch" 
> wrote:
> >> Miss Angelou
> >
> > Sorry to be a nitpicker, but while in high school I had the privilege of
> > meeting DOCTOR Angelou (through a Facing History and Ourselves program),
> and
> > it was impressed on us early and often (and effectively, it seems) before
> > that meeting that DOCTOR Angelou's name is DOCTOR Angelou, not Maya, Miss
> > Angelou, etc :)
>
> I forget to use women's titles sometimes too, but if I remember, I
> take positive pleasure in calling women with PhD's "Dr." - especially
> in areas where people don't often use their titles. :)
>
> -VAL
>
> --
> Increasing the participation of women in open technology and culture
> http://adainitiative.org
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Marketplace.org: Inside the sexual harassment in online gaming

[Emily Monroe]

Maybe we can learn how to (or how not to) deal with sexism from the gaming
community, though.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 2:37 AM, Michelle Gallaway wrote:

> Sexist harassment on Wikipedia is real, but the sort of stuff that
> normally goes on in the online gaming world is orders of magnitude more
> offensive and damaging.
>
> Also Wikipedia is not a video game :-)
>
>  On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 1:04 PM, Jeremy Baron wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/inside-sexual-harassment-online-gaming
>>
>> I just caught this on the podcast. They mentioned "trolls" (that some
>> people say to just ignore them) but no mentions of Wikipedia.
>>
>> -Jeremy
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] On Ms. Sarkeesian - tropes - and notability

[Emily Monroe]

I was aware that we were discussing an article that was proposed for
deletion earlier, but wasn't aware that it was this particular article.

From,
Emily


On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

> I am sorry, but are you all aware that Anita's biography was proposed for
> deletion three days ago, and the decision was a snow "keep"?
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Anita_Sarkeesian
>
> I don't see any risk at all of her article being deleted now. I reiterate,
> we should invite her to take part in discussions here, and perhaps work on
> improving her article, but we don't need to worry about it being deleted.
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
>> I've read the strings and visited Ms. Sarkeesian's Wikipedia and
>>> self-published website, Feminist Frequency, as well as Kickstarter, and
>>> Forbes write up about the Wikipedia Sarkeesian article debacle ("W-SAD").
>>
>>
>> As a disclaimer, I have done none of these things. Therefore, I have
>> absolutely no opinion on Ms. Sarkeesian or her article. I have, however,
>> read Thomas' email, and agree with him.
>>
>>
>>> I weigh in on Ms. Sarkeesian's behalf about notability.  Let's give her
>>> a chance to advance the eternal cause of feminine value and voice.  She has
>>> extraordinary, and even visionary ideas, and deserves our temperance and
>>> admiration.  She is not just a blogger.  She is not someone who will become
>>> less meaningful and whose sole impact on society will be only the W-SAD.
>>> She is one of ours, a gem who comes out swinging.
>>
>>
>> Karen, let me refer to one of Wikipedia's policies, what Wikipedia is not:
>>
>>> Wikipedia is not a soapbox <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soapbox>, a
>>> battleground, or a vehicle for propaganda, advertising and showcasing. This
>>> applies to articles, categories, templates, talk page discussions, and user
>>> pages.
>>
>>
>> Personally, I would greatly hesitate to call an article about a feminist
>> blogger "propaganda", however, it may or may not fall under "soapbox",
>> "advertising" and "showcasing", depending on the individual article.
>>
>> Note that depending on the wording, an article could be essentially
>> propaganda, advertising, or showcasing, but it may not always reflect on
>> notability.
>>
>> Just because I want to be incredibly clear about  what notability is,
>> here is what the nutshell at Wikipedia:Notability (people) says:
>>
>>- A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received
>>significant coverage in 
>> reliable<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources>
>> secondary 
>> sources<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources>
>>  that
>>are 
>> independent<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources> of
>>the subject.
>>- Notability criteria may need to be met for a person to be included
>>in a stand alone list article.
>>- *All biographies of living individuals *must* comply with the
>>policy on biographies of living 
>> individuals<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP>,
>>being supported by sufficientreliable independent 
>> sources<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RS> to
>>ensure neutrality <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV>.
>>
>>
>> And here is the nutshell at Notability (web):
>>
>>> Wikipedia should avoid articles about web sites that could be
>>> interpreted as advertising <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SPAM>.
>>> For material published on the web to have its own article in Wikipedia, it
>>> should be notable <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:N>and of 
>>> historical
>>> significance <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RECENTISM>.
>>> Wikipedia articles about web content should use citations from reliable
>>> sources <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:V>.
>>
>>
>> If a page about her went up prematurely, let us watch it evolve, and take
>>> heart, celebrating her crowdsourcing success and ability to challenge
>>> stereotypes of the type W-SAD manifests.
>>
>>
>> This is where I will show my deletionist tendencies.
>>
>> If an article qualifies to be deleted *toda

Re: [Gendergap] On Ms. Sarkeesian - tropes - and notability

[Emily Monroe]

>
> I've read the strings and visited Ms. Sarkeesian's Wikipedia and
> self-published website, Feminist Frequency, as well as Kickstarter, and
> Forbes write up about the Wikipedia Sarkeesian article debacle ("W-SAD").


As a disclaimer, I have done none of these things. Therefore, I have
absolutely no opinion on Ms. Sarkeesian or her article. I have, however,
read Thomas' email, and agree with him.


> I weigh in on Ms. Sarkeesian's behalf about notability.  Let's give her a
> chance to advance the eternal cause of feminine value and voice.  She has
> extraordinary, and even visionary ideas, and deserves our temperance and
> admiration.  She is not just a blogger.  She is not someone who will become
> less meaningful and whose sole impact on society will be only the W-SAD.
> She is one of ours, a gem who comes out swinging.


Karen, let me refer to one of Wikipedia's policies, what Wikipedia is not:

> Wikipedia is not a soapbox , a
> battleground, or a vehicle for propaganda, advertising and showcasing. This
> applies to articles, categories, templates, talk page discussions, and user
> pages.


Personally, I would greatly hesitate to call an article about a feminist
blogger "propaganda", however, it may or may not fall under "soapbox",
"advertising" and "showcasing", depending on the individual article.

Note that depending on the wording, an article could be essentially
propaganda, advertising, or showcasing, but it may not always reflect on
notability.

Just because I want to be incredibly clear about  what notability is, here
is what the nutshell at Wikipedia:Notability (people) says:

   - A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has received
   significant coverage in
reliable
secondary 
sources
that
   are independent
of
   the subject.
   - Notability criteria may need to be met for a person to be included in
   a stand alone list article.
   - *All biographies of living individuals *must* comply with the policy
   on biographies of living
individuals,
   being supported by sufficientreliable independent
sources to
   ensure neutrality .


And here is the nutshell at Notability (web):

> Wikipedia should avoid articles about web sites that could be interpreted
> as advertising . For
> material published on the web to have its own article in Wikipedia, it
> should be notable and of historical
> significance .
> Wikipedia articles about web content should use citations from reliable
> sources .


If a page about her went up prematurely, let us watch it evolve, and take
> heart, celebrating her crowdsourcing success and ability to challenge
> stereotypes of the type W-SAD manifests.


This is where I will show my deletionist tendencies.

If an article qualifies to be deleted *today*, it needs to be nominated for
deletion *today*, and then deleted if there is no improvement. if it
doesn't need to be deleted, I have faith that it will, most likely (and
hopefully!), be rescued from deletion, or even rewritten from scratch,
if/when it's nominated for deletion. On the other hand, I can see where
this might be less true for articles with female subjects, and I'll get
into this later.

I'm guessestimating you are willing to go up to bat for Ms. Sarkeesians'
article, and that there are at least one or two people on the list who may
feel the same (even if they don't participate in any discussion about this).

I know that there might be a double standard, where female subjects are
less likely to have articles than male subjects, particularly in
male-dominated fields. The only concern I have, and I'm not certain of
this, is that this might apply to deletion of articles with female
subjects, where they are more likely to be deleted. Karen, is this what you
are concerned about?

From,
Emily


On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Karen Sue Rolph wrote:

>
> Dear Wikipedia gender topic colleagues,
>
> I've read the strings and visited Ms. Sarkeesian's Wikipedia and
> self-published website, Feminist Frequency, as well as Kickstarter, and
> Forbes write up about the Wikipedia Sarkeesian article debacle ("W-SAD").
>
> I weigh in on Ms. Sarkeesian's behalf about notability.  Let's give her a
> chance to advance the eternal cause of feminine value and voice.  She has
> extraordinary, and even visionary ideas, and deserves our temperance and
> admiration.  She is not just a blogger.  She is not someone who will become
> less meaningful and whose sole 

Re: [Gendergap] gender gap patrol project? Re: page patroller intro Re: So what have you been working on lately article wise as a woman or about women?

[Emily Monroe]

I'm sorry, I'm mostly monolingual; other than a few American Sign Language
signs, plus the alphabet, and a few grammatical rules of ASL, I don't know
any other languages than English.

Far as I am aware of, there isn't any gender gap patrol project going.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:23 AM,  wrote:

> thanks, Emily,
>
> > Do you need anything else?
>
> yes, I guess I need users who speak "English+" (+ meaning: Other languages
> than English)
> and who are ready and able to add interwiki links to all of the patrol
> pages
>
> Q: btw, do we have a gender gap patrol project running anywhere? for
> spotting sexism etc. and finding
> better phrases, e.g. gender neutral ones, etc.?
>
> this should generally be very interesting, I think,
>
> Q: did we have a gender gap related list of projects/ WP pages that seek
> more active participation (e.g. on
> en.WP) and if yes, can anyone please remind me of its name/location?
>
> thanks & cheers
> Claudia
>
> On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 21:53:06 -0500, Emily Monroe wrote
> > The random page patrol is
> > here<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Random_page_patrol>,
> > and recent changes patrol page is
> > here<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_changes_patrol>.
> > The latter has interwiki links; random page patrol, however, does not.
> > Also, Wikipedia:Patrol <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Patrols>
> has
> > two interwiki links.
> >
> > Do you need anything else?
> >
> > From,
> > Emily
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 3:03 AM,  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Emily, hi all,
> > >
> > > thanks :-)
> > >
> > > to me this seems like an interesting role for WP users who have no
> strong
> > > inclination for writing new articles
> > > etc. yet wish to contribute their share
> > >
> > > Emily, by way of introducing the activity profile to WP newcomers, can
> you
> > > maybe point me to any role
> > > description that I might pass on to lurking WP newcomers who might be
> > > waiting for exactly such an entry
> > > point? Maybe there even is a WP page that already has a few interwiki
> > > links?
> > >
> > > ah, just found the one for new pages here:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol -
> > > apparently also available in العربية, Česky, Deutsch, Español, עברית,
> > > Português, Русский, Українська, 中文
> > >
> > > is there a page for random page patrolling, too? I think this would be
> the
> > > best appetizer :-)
> > >
> > > thanks & cheers
> > > Claudia
> > >
> > > On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 14:31:33 -0500, Emily Monroe wrote
> > > > I am a page patroller; whether it's recent change, new page, or
> random
> > > page
> > > > patrolling, I've done it. For now, I am random page patrolling, with
> > > > the occasional Google search for things I'm interested in, flitting
> from
> > > > page to page, copyediting, wikifying, tagging/untagging, and
> > > > updating/adding Wikiproject banners.
> > > >
> > > > From,
> > > > Emily
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Gendergap mailing list
> > > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> > >
>
>
> thanks & cheers,
> Claudia
> koltzenb...@w4w.net
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] page patroller intro Re: So what have you been working on lately article wise as a woman or about women?

[Emily Monroe]

The random page patrol is
here<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Random_page_patrol>,
and recent changes patrol page is
here<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_changes_patrol>.
The latter has interwiki links; random page patrol, however, does not.
Also, Wikipedia:Patrol <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Patrols> has
two interwiki links.

Do you need anything else?

From,
Emily


On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 3:03 AM,  wrote:

> Hi Emily, hi all,
>
> thanks :-)
>
> to me this seems like an interesting role for WP users who have no strong
> inclination for writing new articles
> etc. yet wish to contribute their share
>
> Emily, by way of introducing the activity profile to WP newcomers, can you
> maybe point me to any role
> description that I might pass on to lurking WP newcomers who might be
> waiting for exactly such an entry
> point? Maybe there even is a WP page that already has a few interwiki
> links?
>
> ah, just found the one for new pages here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol -
> apparently also available in العربية, Česky, Deutsch, Español, עברית,
> Português, Русский, Українська, 中文
>
> is there a page for random page patrolling, too? I think this would be the
> best appetizer :-)
>
> thanks & cheers
> Claudia
>
> On Sat, 9 Jun 2012 14:31:33 -0500, Emily Monroe wrote
> > I am a page patroller; whether it's recent change, new page, or random
> page
> > patrolling, I've done it. For now, I am random page patrolling, with
> > the occasional Google search for things I'm interested in, flitting from
> > page to page, copyediting, wikifying, tagging/untagging, and
> > updating/adding Wikiproject banners.
> >
> > From,
> > Emily
> [...]
>
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Re: [Gendergap] So what have you been working on lately article wise as a woman or about women?

[Emily Monroe]

I am a page patroller; whether it's recent change, new page, or random page
patrolling, I've done it. For now, I am random page patrolling, with
the occasional Google search for things I'm interested in, flitting from
page to page, copyediting, wikifying, tagging/untagging, and
updating/adding Wikiproject banners.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Johanna-Hypatia Cybeleia <
johanna.hypa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, gang. I've added an article about feminist poet Halima 
> Xudoyberdiyeva,
> who has been awarded the title People's Poet of Uzbekistan. Then I linked
> from the article to a translation of her feminist poem "Sacred Woman."
>
> Well, OK, I translated it, but it hadn't been translated yet and somebody
> had to. Honestly I don't make a habit of linking to my external pages. This
> was the one and only time in article space, I promise. At least I wasn't
> citing myself. I also linked from a title in Halima's bibliography to the
> article on the ancient warrior queen Tomyris, who the poem was about.
>
> Otherwise, I've joined the Typo Team and have adopted some typos as my
> very own: *breats, thights, Ghandi*, and the perennial its/it's
> distinction. These days I'm putting most of my time and energy into a
> subject dear to my heart, American Indian languages. I created and have
> been filling in the sections on 
> Ohioand
> Pennsylvania's
> Native American place names.
>
> I also had adopted Kateri Tekakwitha, because I was looking to help edit
> American Indian women's history, and because when I first looked at her
> article it had blatant, gross vandalism that had been there for years! Once
> I cleaned it up the vandals began returning, so I kept after it, month
> after month. Then it seems she was scheduled for canonization this year, so
> for months now a bevy of Catholic activists has been pouring in lots of
> Catholic theology and hagiography which I am not suited to contribute to,
> so I was content with giving the Mohawk pronunciation in IPA and left
> confident that she's safe from vandals now.
>
> I linked from Genya Ravan to a *Bitch* magazine article on her career as
> a feminist pioneer in rock music. I check in on my friend Asma Barlas every
> so often to make sure what they're saying about her is accurate.
>
> J.Hy
> --
> __
> I have been woman
> for a long time
> beware my smile
>
> --Audre Lorde
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Men's_shelter Re: New WikiProject Feminism Articles from WSG students

[Emily Monroe]

Is there a way to put information about men's shelters in the woman's
shelter article, without violating civility standards?

From,
Emily


On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:11 AM,  wrote:

> Couldn't hurt, and would give a place to direct people who try to insert
> Men's shelter info into the Women's shelter article.
>
>   Original Message 
> Subject: [Gendergap] Men's_shelter Re: New WikiProject Feminism
> Articles from WSG students
> From: koltzenb...@w4w.net
> Date: Tue, June 05, 2012 12:09 am
> To: Increasing female participation in Wikimedia projects
> 
>
>
> Hi Ryan
>
> thank you for your message explaining how you see the situation that might
> be coming
>
> what does everyone think about opening an article about "Men's shelter"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_shelter ("Wikipedia does not have an
> article with this exact name. Please
> search for Men's shelter in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or
> spellings.")
>
> and use a few "male" user names to work on it seriously (there is quite a
> lot of facts to make known, I
> think), then see what happens
>
> my2cents is that this would cost us not even three Guineas
>
> any opinions?
> cheers
> Claudia
>
> On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 14:12:46 -0700, Ryan Kaldari wrote
> > Just a quick word of warning... you should expect interference at the "
> > Women's shelter" article from the highly active "men's rights" activists
> > on Wikipedia. They have been pushing the point of view that women's
> > shelters are discriminatory against men, that the women's shelter
> > movement is part of a conspiracy to hide the "true statistics" about
> > male victims of domestic violence, and that women's shelters are just
> > scams to get government money, etc. If the students run into problems,
> > just have them drop a message on the WikiProject Feminism talk page.
> >
> > Ryan Kaldari
> >
> > On 6/4/12 6:29 AM, Kissling, Elizabeth wrote:
> > > Now that there's room in the discussion for a new topic :-), I'd like
> to ask for help from some of you
> experienced Wikipedians in bringing a new group of women to the project.
> > >
> > > I'm a professor of Women's& Gender Studies, and for their senior
> capstone project, I've had a group of
> WSG majors students working on WP articles for the WikiProject Feminism.
> They've selected articles from
> the list of requested articles and stubs from WP:Feminism
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Feminism), and have
> been researching, writing, and
> revising in their sandbox pages for the last few weeks. We're planning to
> post the articles in class today (a
> few make take a little longer, but this week for sure -- it's the last
> week of the term).
> > >
> > > It's been a wonderful experience for them, learning about how to
> present research for the Wikipedia
> audience compared to an academic audience, and to make feminist ideas
> accessible to larger audience, and
> more. It's given them a new appreciation of Wikipedia -- most of their
> professors tell them not to use it, so it
> was a big shock the first day of class when I announced we'd spend the
> quarter working on it. It's also been
> very challenging for many, especially the technical aspects of working
> with wiki markup and Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > Will those of you who volunteer in this area help shepherd them into
> the fold? I'm not expecting my
> students to be treated with kid gloves, but we've watched a few edit wars,
> and they're nervous. As with any
> group of students, some are stronger writers than others, and some of
> these pieces will need more help than
> others. Here's the list of articles that will soon be added/updated:
> > >
> > >
> > > American women's firsts
> > > Feminism in Thailand
> > > Feminism& BDSM
> > > Metaformic theory
> > > Women's shelters
> > > Genderfuck
> > > Feminist pedagogy
> > >
> > > Thank you for the work that you, and for any help you can provide to
> my students.
>
>
> thanks & cheers,
> Claudia
> koltzenb...@w4w.net
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] it seems to me... Re: Guns, Girls and Games

[Emily Monroe]

I think, in this context, "verbal" means "using words to communicate", not
"using speech to communicate". So, verbal assault would be "assault with
words", not "assault with speech".

From,
Emily


On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Alison Cassidy  wrote:

> On Jun 4, 2012, at 1:11 PM, Nathan wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Risker  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 4 June 2012 13:34, Nathan  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In the context of Wikipedia editing, what does it mean to have been
>>> "assaulted"?
>>>
>>>
>> That's a good question, Nathan.  In my workplace, we classify assaults as
>> physical and verbal; I suppose from the WMF-project perspective, we'd be
>> looking at (mainly) verbal assaults, either onwiki or via email.
>>
>> There have been some genuine, documented stalking situations (in the true
>> sense of the word, with off-wiki contacts that include phone calls and
>> sometimes even a physical presence), but they are presumably quite rare.
>>
>> I'd also say that neither are limited to being directed at female users;
>> however, particularly given the small number of women editing on the
>> projects, I suspect that they are disproportionately at the receiving end
>> of such behaviour.  I have no evidence that this is the case, though.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>>
> Ok. To ask a follow-up, and I'm sorry if this is a dense question but I
> genuinely don't have the answer, what is an example of a verbal assault? I
> understand the wiki-parameters of harassment, and can recognize insults and
> rude behavior etc., but I'm just not sure what I would classify as an
> assault among purely text-based exchanges.
>
>
> Hi Nathan,
>
> Here's a somewhat extreme example of what could be called a 'verbal
> assault' based on one's gender;
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWondergay&diff=401000993&oldid=400968745
>
> I kept this one bookmarked because of the 'wow' factor, but there are
> dozens and dozens of others.
>
> -- Allie (User:Alison)
>
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Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards

[Emily Monroe]

Nathan, I agree!

From,
Emily


On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:34 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> A debate over civility and cultural definitions of due respect could go on
> forever and become quite contentious... This seems like it would be a good
> opportunity for Kevin or another moderator to step in and kill this thread
> before it gets further out of hand.
>
> ~Nathan
>
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Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards

[Emily Monroe]

Okay. Why DOESN'T Sarah deserve your respect?

From,
Emily


On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:

> Obviously not from me, or we would not having this talk.
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>
>
> On 8 May 2012 16:02, Emily Monroe  wrote:
>
>> Sarah has earned respect. Please give it.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>
>>> And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people
>>> sitting on the corner?
>>>
>>> And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle,
>>> you need to earn it.
>>> _
>>> *Béria Lima*
>>>
>>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
>>> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe  wrote:
>>>
>>>> You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect
>>>> Sarahs' authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every
>>>> moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to
>>>> participate on this list.
>>>>
>>>> From,
>>>> Emily
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me.
>>>>> For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah 
>>>>> and
>>>>> I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
>>>>>
>>>>> Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of
>>>>> a Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) 
>>>>> I
>>>>> don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will
>>>>> you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?)
>>>>> _
>>>>> *Béria Lima*
>>>>> *
>>>>> Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>>>>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
>>>>> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation.
>>>>>>> Did you already invite Laura?
>>>>>>> _
>>>>>>> *Béria Lima*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate
>>>>>> given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate
>>>>>> posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on
>>>>>> behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator
>>>>>> actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of
>>>>>> divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ___
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>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards

[Emily Monroe]

Sarah has earned respect. Please give it.

From,
Emily


On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:

> And who will make me Emily? How old are we that we need to have people
> sitting on the corner?
>
> And authority and respect is not something that is there for miracle, you
> need to earn it.
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>
>
> On 8 May 2012 12:46, Emily Monroe  wrote:
>
>> You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs'
>> authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every
>> moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to
>> participate on this list.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>
>>> Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me.
>>> For obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and
>>> I don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
>>>
>>> Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a
>>> Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I
>>> don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will
>>> you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?)
>>> _
>>> *Béria Lima*
>>> *
>>> Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
>>> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did
>>>>> you already invite Laura?
>>>>> _
>>>>> *Béria Lima*
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate
>>>> given her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate
>>>> posts, for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on
>>>> behavioural merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator
>>>> actions.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of
>>>> divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [Gendergap] civility/behavioral standards

[Emily Monroe]

You know what, Beria? At the very least, you will have to respect Sarahs'
authority. You're going to have the respect the authority of every
moderator, male, female, or other, and respect the right of *everyone* to
participate on this list.

From,
Emily


On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Béria Lima  wrote:

> Well, people like her are the only one i will respect to moderate me. For
> obvious reasons, I will not accept any moderation coming from Sarah and I
> don't think that list should be dominated by a men.
>
> Btw, if someone do more for women than Laura, who had the very idea of a
> Woman's Camp (WikiWomenCamp - who already got a daugther - The AdaCamp) I
> don't know who should. The fact you like her or not is irrelevant. (Will
> you remove Sarah or Sue based on that?)
> _
> *Béria Lima*
> *
> Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. *
>
>
> On 8 May 2012 10:52, Thomas Morton  wrote:
>
>> On 8 May 2012 14:42, Béria Lima  wrote:
>>
>>> I still waiting for see someone else other than him on moderation. Did
>>> you already invite Laura?
>>> _
>>> *Béria Lima*
>>>
>>
>>  I'd suggest that Laura is possibly not a good moderator candidate given
>> her extremely strong viewpoint; I'd be concerned she would moderate posts,
>> for example, on the basis they came from a man, rather than on behavioural
>> merits - or at least that this would influence her moderator actions.
>>
>> Indeed, her earlier posts on this thread IMO serve as an example of
>> divisive material/rants that would need moderator attention.
>>
>> Tom
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

Of course, that's inappropriate and rude. So were you, but we all know that
you know better.

From,
Emily


On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 12:43 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:

> This is highly inappropriate:
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beria&diff=3706794&oldid=3691439(at
>  that is just the last one, I can give you both a pile bigger than the
> Everest)
>
> And none of you are seing me complain about it. A single mail with irony
> and you run around claiming misogyny and rudeness? As the meme says: Bitch,
> please<http://deborahdekrem.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/4f35923e34365_bitch-please.png>
> !
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>
>
> On 6 May 2012 14:35, Emily Monroe  wrote:
>
>> Excuse me, Beria, but I agree that your tone is, in fact,
>> highly inappropriate.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>
>>> Sarah, until i tell you to "fuck off" I'm being respectful to you.
>>> Actually the simple meaning of taking time in my volunteer, no paid work as
>>> a wikimedian to answer your mail show I respect you.
>>>
>>> To your idea: Ever heard of OTRS system? I'm sure with all your "work"
>>> for GLAM you already did, so if you have some image you want in commons ask
>>> them to release in a compatible license.
>>>
>>> HIRE someone to take pictures for us is a very idiotic idea, with the
>>> full amount of great photographers who take pictures for free to upload on
>>> commons, even more, hire the models as well can almost qualify as the most
>>> idiot idea ever.
>>>
>>> I do believe in volunteer work Sarah, which is the basis of our wiki
>>> way. Try to get something by paying people to do where you simply don't
>>> know if can be done by volunteers - since no one ever asked - is, in my
>>> humble opinion, stupid.
>>> _
>>> *Béria Lima*
>>>
>>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
>>> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 May 2012 14:24, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>>>
>>>>  On 5/6/12 1:20 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good idea Sarah. Prove everyone in the world we don't even have enough
>>>> woman in the 9% of editors who can take a picture of some "trivial" thing.
>>>> Prove the world the only way to have picture of girls in commons is hiring
>>>> models and photographers to take them.
>>>>
>>>> I have NO idea why no one thought of this before!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Beria, I'd appreciate a more respectful tone. As always, with me, and
>>>> anyone else on this list. The snarkiness of your comment isn't one to make
>>>> me want to participate or share my brainstorms or ideas on this list.
>>>>
>>>> Just because you disagree with my idea, doesn't mean others might find
>>>> value in it, and it might improve content. Not every woman wants to edit
>>>> Wikipedia and I have met women who are photographers who have expressed
>>>> interest in uploading photographs and also women who would rather
>>>> participate as volunteers to be photographed. Using the term model does not
>>>> necessarily mean traditional "model body types" of women. Anyone can be a
>>>> model if you put them in front of a camera.
>>>>
>>>> Again, please be a bit more polite in your responses on this list. I
>>>> know I'm not the only person who would appreciate that. Thank you,
>>>>
>>>> -Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _
>>>> *Béria Lima*
>>>>
>>>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>>>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
>>>> construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 May 2012 14:13, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  On 5/6/12 1:07 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/2/2012 9:39 PM, 

Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

Excuse me, Beria, but I agree that your tone is, in fact,
highly inappropriate.

From,
Emily


On Sun, May 6, 2012 at 12:32 PM, Béria Lima  wrote:

> Sarah, until i tell you to "fuck off" I'm being respectful to you.
> Actually the simple meaning of taking time in my volunteer, no paid work as
> a wikimedian to answer your mail show I respect you.
>
> To your idea: Ever heard of OTRS system? I'm sure with all your "work" for
> GLAM you already did, so if you have some image you want in commons ask
> them to release in a compatible license.
>
> HIRE someone to take pictures for us is a very idiotic idea, with the full
> amount of great photographers who take pictures for free to upload on
> commons, even more, hire the models as well can almost qualify as the most
> idiot idea ever.
>
> I do believe in volunteer work Sarah, which is the basis of our wiki way.
> Try to get something by paying people to do where you simply don't know if
> can be done by volunteers - since no one ever asked - is, in my humble
> opinion, stupid.
> _
> *Béria Lima*
>
> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> construir esse sonho. *
>
>
> On 6 May 2012 14:24, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>
>>  On 5/6/12 1:20 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>>
>> Good idea Sarah. Prove everyone in the world we don't even have enough
>> woman in the 9% of editors who can take a picture of some "trivial" thing.
>> Prove the world the only way to have picture of girls in commons is hiring
>> models and photographers to take them.
>>
>> I have NO idea why no one thought of this before!
>>
>>
>> Beria, I'd appreciate a more respectful tone. As always, with me, and
>> anyone else on this list. The snarkiness of your comment isn't one to make
>> me want to participate or share my brainstorms or ideas on this list.
>>
>> Just because you disagree with my idea, doesn't mean others might find
>> value in it, and it might improve content. Not every woman wants to edit
>> Wikipedia and I have met women who are photographers who have expressed
>> interest in uploading photographs and also women who would rather
>> participate as volunteers to be photographed. Using the term model does not
>> necessarily mean traditional "model body types" of women. Anyone can be a
>> model if you put them in front of a camera.
>>
>> Again, please be a bit more polite in your responses on this list. I know
>> I'm not the only person who would appreciate that. Thank you,
>>
>> -Sarah
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>> *Béria Lima*
>>
>> *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
>> livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
>> construir esse sonho. *
>>
>>
>> On 6 May 2012 14:13, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>>
>>>  On 5/6/12 1:07 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:
>>>
>>> On 5/2/2012 9:39 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't miss http://thehairpin.com/2011/01/women-laughing-alone-with-salad
>>>
>>>
>>>  Where are women laughing as they chop up bloody sausage...
>>>
>>> To me I guess I see hostility and dominance in the kind of shots people
>>> have been complaining about.  I don't think women should respond en masse
>>> with the same, but if no one responds at all, I feel it is my duty to
>>> mention bloody sausages.
>>>
>>> Of course, women have responded here, but I guess not enough of a ping
>>> in the fabric of world wide male dominance for me to keep my bloody
>>> sausages to my self...
>>>
>>> Hmmm... maybe I should write some of my favorite artists with
>>> suggestions
>>>
>>> Or get rich and commission a bunch of stuff I like... whatever the
>>> them...
>>>
>>> (Handsome male dogs of various breeds on their backs smiling and saying
>>> "Scratch my belly mommy.")
>>>
>>>
>>>  There was an idea brainstormed a little while back with me and a few
>>> other folks about seeking funding to have a "Wiki Loves Women" photography
>>> event that wanted photographers to take photographs of women - and this
>>> wouldn't be some broad crowdsourced thing like WLM, we would work with
>>> photographers, various "models" etc and make this legit with releases, etc
>>> - doing whatever we needed them to be better represented doing, so to say.
>>> So, wearing certain articles of clothing (i.e. "go go boots"), certain make
>>> up looks or uses, hairstyles, - places that are often poorly represented
>>> regarding "women's stuff" (i.e. men don't get manicures that often, sorry)
>>> even as extreme as sex acts, I also wanted to just have women doing
>>> "things" like mowing the lawn and planting flowers or pan searing salmon or
>>> whatever things need videos to represent them (and no, these women wouldn't
>>> be nude :P). The latter was inspired by Jenny Geigel Mikulay's work at
>>> Alverno College where she had her students (it's a women's college) make
>>> films of things like playing drums, the art museum b

Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

I'm not sure the technical term for it either, but the laymen's term is
female ejactulation. *shrugs*

From,
Emily


On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:

>  On 4/27/2012 3:45 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
>
> I could have a go again, Carol.  >:)
>
>  Gay porn is underrepresented in these articles.
>
>  Andreas
>
>  So if I was too implicit in my statement. As Andreas surmised, I meant
> re-do that photo to make it male on male. Or do a second one that's male on
> male.  Go for it!
>
> As for female "ejaculation" since ejaculation is putting out sperm, I
> don't think women do it.
>
> Women obviously -- geez, I don't what you call it besides "get wet." And
> maybe orgasms squeeze some of it out an orifice. But I don't think that's
> ejaculation.  But I do now know I don't what the technical terms are or if
> there are any!!
>
> CM
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Article "Cumshot" in English and German Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

While the picture could be described as somewhat pornographic, I'll
have to agree with previous participants in this email conversation. This
article IS porn-related, so a pornographic cartoon can be used to
illustrate it, per WP:NOTCENSORED.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Carol Moore DC wrote:

>  NO need to censor it. Just do a second one with bushier eyebrows and a
> goatee and put that up instead :-)
>
>
> On 4/27/2012 1:50 PM, Béria Lima wrote:
>
> Katrin, I hate to be captain obvious here, but: Do you know that "cun
> shot" is a porn related term right? Only used in Porn related articles (see
> related 
> articles)?
> And that what is in the article isn't a picture, but a illustration?
>
> I do agreed when people complained about the naked gardening article and
> pic, because isn't a sex related article. But this IS a sex related
> article, not only, this one is a PORN related article. Is not like someone
> will fall there accidentally by looking for Jesus or Santa. Therefore, I
> don't see the reason to censor the article.
>  
> *Béria Lima*
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] On Notable Women in Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

Yeah, WikiNews might be a better idea.

From,
Emily


On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 1:40 PM, Laura Hale  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:30 AM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
>> You do realize that Wikipedia is a horrible way to get into the news?
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
> On the other hand, Wikinews is a potential venue for news related
> articles, gets fed to Google news which allows getting picked up by a
> larger audience, and also has a gendergap. :)  News related stories are
> quite welcome there. :)
>
> --
> twitter: purplepopple
> blog: ozziesport.com
>
>
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>
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Re: [Gendergap] On Notable Women in Wikipedia

[Emily Monroe]

You do realize that Wikipedia is a horrible way to get into the news?

From,
Emily


On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Karen Sue Rolph wrote:

>  Wikipedia colleagues,
>
> I want to work within the accepted range of who rises to the level of
> notable women.  The historical problem of women in the news less, and
> quoted and cited less, is still an issue.  I want to mention an important
> figure, who may otherwise stay out of the news.  Please see her page -
> Michelle Clayman.
>
> While Ms. Clayman is in investments, and for that reason may stay out of
> the limelight, without her philanthropy at the Clayman Institute for Gender
> Studies, an amazing body of research may have never happened.  The scale is
> global, and her funding support includes game-changing and
> paradigm-upending research such as "The Motherhood Penalty" and a number of
> projects focused abroad.  Ms. Clayman should (NPOV) be noted for providing
> the framework, funding, and vision to support research on women's
> struggles.  I've gone ahead and marked the page as a Stanford wiki and/or
> women's history project; links to the Institute and additional activities
> are a good idea.
>
> KS Rolph
>
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Re: [Gendergap] New Moderator

[Emily Monroe]

Yay! Welcome!

From,
Emily


On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  Hi everyone,
>
> I wanted to say "welcome" to our new moderator of the Gender Gap list -
> Kevin Gorman.
>
> Kevin is an advocate for "minding the gap", as a student at UC Berkeley,
> he is the first to bring the ambassador program to a women's studies
> department, which will be executed this spring. Kevin has the patience and
> ability to maintain sensitive subjects on Wikipedia and beyond, showing his
> ability to be patient, yet honest, on subjects such as men's rights,
> domestic abuse, and beyond. As a colleague, I have been nothing but
> impressed with Kevin's input, honesty, and strength regarding sensitive
> subjects.
>
> Both Sue and I are delighted to have Kevin involved here in the list;
> thank you Kevin!
>
> -Sarah
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
> >>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate 
> >>today
> <<
>
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>
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Re: [Gendergap] I'm fed up - was Re: article differentials/unnecessary drama

[Emily Monroe]

This isn't the English Wikipedia.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  On 12/26/11 11:36 AM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> Good point, Florence, however, there is the issue of "You need to act like
> an adult, or make a halfway decent effort, to be here, and be unmoderated."
> You ignore kids sometimes when they behave badly to get attention. You
> can't always do that with an adult (or with kids, either).
>
> And then, like Sarah just said, sometimes even a decent leader gets fed up
> to the point of not being able to ignore bad behavior.
>
>  Exactly. And it's tough - as the moderator, in which the negativity is
> being directed, I get a little paranoid about how far I can take my "power"
> (note the quotes, for sarcastic emphasis). For example, on English
> Wikipedia, from what I understand, if I was an admin and someone was
> un-civil towards me, *another* admin would have to deal with it. I
> wouldn't be allowed to deal with it. So I guess, that's why I haven't said
> "you're out of here." Or perhaps I just need some validation, or the
> co-moderator (Sue) or something. (And this relates to your previous
> question about me moderating others who are being disrespectful towards
> me.) I guess I'm failing at *being bold* here.
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
> >>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate 
> >>today<http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=WMFJA085/en/US&utm_source=WMdonate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=20110130SB003&language=en&uselang=en&country=US&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwikimediafoundation.org%2Fwiki%2FHome>
> <<
>
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Re: [Gendergap] I'm fed up - was Re: article differentials/unnecessary drama

[Emily Monroe]

Good point, Florence, however, there is the issue of "You need to act like
an adult, or make a halfway decent effort, to be here, and be unmoderated."
You ignore kids sometimes when they behave badly to get attention. You
can't always do that with an adult (or with kids, either).

And then, like Sarah just said, sometimes even a decent leader gets fed up
to the point of not being able to ignore bad behavior.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 12:29 PM, Florence  wrote:

> Sarah Seriously When it comes to bullying... There are several
> options as to how to answer it.
>
> One is blahblahblah. It takes your time, it takes our time, it takes its
> toll on the environment, and is bad on your health :)
>
> When there is no bodily harm involved, I'd say to do just as with
> trolling. Let it go. Do not answer. Do as if it did not exist. Have a drink
> and forget about it. Do not escalate. Close your mind.
>
> Do us the favor of thinking us able to filter out what is ridiculous and
> non sense from what is relevant and meaningful criticism. Beria is capable
> of both. Take the second and shut your mind from the first as most of us
> learnt to do ;)
>
> Flo
>
> Sent from my smartphone, wearing boxing gloves, so please, disregard any
> type mismatch.
>
> On Dec 26, 2011, at 17:41, Sarah Stierch  wrote:
>
>
>
> And one think is discuss something - even when people have different
> opinion than yours, another completely different is play the "*poor me,
> nothing I do is good*" every time someone has a criticism against your
> work.
>
>
> I know I'm going to regret this, but, I can't be quiet anymore.
>
> I apologize to this ENTIRE mailing list for this drama erupting, and I'm
> going to be sending gender gap-l into my "special file" until my heart rate
> goes down. If people want to talk to me, they can find me on IRC or in
> private email, today.
>
> ---
>
> Beria, you're passive aggressive bullying behavior has reached my level of
> tolerance. I was going to email you privately, but, I decided against that,
> as *you* like to publicly share your feelings with the community,
> including specific people publicly.
>
> I have previously stated it, the last thing I wish to do is flood the list
> with things that are of no benefit or interest to the community. If me
> feeling bad about doing that is a bad then, so be it, I'm just sick and
> tired of you repeatedly reminding me of how I'm doing something wrong, and
> your declaration of "no one giving a fuck" about what you have to say
> because you aren't a fellow or you aren't a staff member is equally passive
> aggressive. I *worked* my butt off for this fellowship, and a fellowship
> with WMF is something I have been exploring and trying to develop for
> almost two years now. I'm honored to have it, beyond words. Anyone can
> apply to be a fellow Beria, and passively declaring that no one cares about
> you because you aren't paid, is just a mean slap in the face of everyone
> who works hard at WMF and as volunteers. And remember, there are chapter
> people who get paid to do their jobs, also.
>
> And this isn't just about me - you've done it to a lot of people. People I
> consider friends and colleagues, and people I don't even know well.
>
> I'm tired of having to worry about the things I post on this list,
> Internal-L, and Foundation-L, being to your disapproval. I'm also tired of
> the "monthly wait for what Beria will say to someone that will cause drama
> on a mailing list" situation. While I'm sure others greatly appreciate your
> attitude, I don't, and others do not as well. Your behavior and bullying
> (which is defined here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullying) makes me
> have little to desire to participate in mailing list discussions, and even
> *less* desire to even consider attending a conference that you are
> co-planning. Which is something, civility, we touch on here on this mailing
> list, as being a deterrent for people wanting to participate in projects.
>
> This isn't the first time that I've actively, *and* publicly asked you to
> stop behaving like this.
>
> The goal of this list isn't to just "talk" about wanting to make changes,
> it's about making changes. Whether they are online, in any language
> project, or offline, through outreach, programming, edit-a-thons, and
> whatnot. I talk my talk and I walk my walk, and I know others here do too
> (and I try to share those projects when they are brought to my attention).
> And if me being "too sensitive" or me "caring too much" or "me being paid"
> is a deterrent to us moving the meter (aka closing the gap) then I guess
> I'm the worst representative for the gender gap movement.
>
> Beria - I'm not going to argue with you about this, I'm not going to ask
> you to ever like me, be my bestfriend, or make an exception. I just want
> you to stop bullying me, others, and learn how your words affects others
> before you type them. I can handle criticism, when it's constructive. Not
> when

Re: [Gendergap] I'm fed up - was Re: article differentials/unnecessary drama

[Emily Monroe]

So, if you're reluctant to moderate somebody who disrespects you, why be a
moderator?

From,
Emily


On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 11:52 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  On 12/26/11 10:43 AM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
> Sarah,
>
> I assume you're the list moderator? Then you should be able to decide who
> joins/stays on/posts on the list, and not have to resort to rants such at
> this one.
>
>
> Great point Emily, and this has crossed my mind. I don't really feel
> comfortable "moderating" or "deciding" on who stays/posts/etc the list when
> the negative comments by Beria have been directed at me (and of course, I
> shared my opinion on the matter).
>
> I'm in the process of investigating bringing in another moderator,
> actually.
>
> -Sarah
>
>
>
> From,
> Emily
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> And one think is discuss something - even when people have different
>> opinion than yours, another completely different is play the "*poor me,
>> nothing I do is good*" every time someone has a criticism against your
>> work.
>>
>>
>> I know I'm going to regret this, but, I can't be quiet anymore.
>>
>> I apologize to this ENTIRE mailing list for this drama erupting, and I'm
>> going to be sending gender gap-l into my "special file" until my heart rate
>> goes down. If people want to talk to me, they can find me on IRC or in
>> private email, today.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Beria, you're passive aggressive bullying behavior has reached my level
>> of tolerance. I was going to email you privately, but, I decided against
>> that, as *you* like to publicly share your feelings with the community,
>> including specific people publicly.
>>
>> I have previously stated it, the last thing I wish to do is flood the
>> list with things that are of no benefit or interest to the community. If me
>> feeling bad about doing that is a bad then, so be it, I'm just sick and
>> tired of you repeatedly reminding me of how I'm doing something wrong, and
>> your declaration of "no one giving a fuck" about what you have to say
>> because you aren't a fellow or you aren't a staff member is equally passive
>> aggressive. I *worked* my butt off for this fellowship, and a fellowship
>> with WMF is something I have been exploring and trying to develop for
>> almost two years now. I'm honored to have it, beyond words. Anyone can
>> apply to be a fellow Beria, and passively declaring that no one cares about
>> you because you aren't paid, is just a mean slap in the face of everyone
>> who works hard at WMF and as volunteers. And remember, there are chapter
>> people who get paid to do their jobs, also.
>>
>> And this isn't just about me - you've done it to a lot of people. People
>> I consider friends and colleagues, and people I don't even know well.
>>
>> I'm tired of having to worry about the things I post on this list,
>> Internal-L, and Foundation-L, being to your disapproval. I'm also tired of
>> the "monthly wait for what Beria will say to someone that will cause drama
>> on a mailing list" situation. While I'm sure others greatly appreciate your
>> attitude, I don't, and others do not as well. Your behavior and bullying
>> (which is defined here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullying) makes me
>> have little to desire to participate in mailing list discussions, and even
>> *less* desire to even consider attending a conference that you are
>> co-planning. Which is something, civility, we touch on here on this mailing
>> list, as being a deterrent for people wanting to participate in projects.
>>
>> This isn't the first time that I've actively, *and* publicly asked you
>> to stop behaving like this.
>>
>> The goal of this list isn't to just "talk" about wanting to make changes,
>> it's about making changes. Whether they are online, in any language
>> project, or offline, through outreach, programming, edit-a-thons, and
>> whatnot. I talk my talk and I walk my walk, and I know others here do too
>> (and I try to share those projects when they are brought to my attention).
>> And if me being "too sensitive" or me "caring too much" or "me being paid"
>> is a deterrent to us moving the meter (aka closing the gap) then I guess
>> I'm the worst representative for the gender gap movement.
>>
>> Beria - I'm not going to argue with you about this, 

Re: [Gendergap] I'm fed up - was Re: article differentials/unnecessary drama

[Emily Monroe]

Sarah,

I assume you're the list moderator? Then you should be able to decide who
joins/stays on/posts on the list, and not have to resort to rants such at
this one.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>
>
> And one think is discuss something - even when people have different
> opinion than yours, another completely different is play the "*poor me,
> nothing I do is good*" every time someone has a criticism against your
> work.
>
>
> I know I'm going to regret this, but, I can't be quiet anymore.
>
> I apologize to this ENTIRE mailing list for this drama erupting, and I'm
> going to be sending gender gap-l into my "special file" until my heart rate
> goes down. If people want to talk to me, they can find me on IRC or in
> private email, today.
>
> ---
>
> Beria, you're passive aggressive bullying behavior has reached my level of
> tolerance. I was going to email you privately, but, I decided against that,
> as *you* like to publicly share your feelings with the community,
> including specific people publicly.
>
> I have previously stated it, the last thing I wish to do is flood the list
> with things that are of no benefit or interest to the community. If me
> feeling bad about doing that is a bad then, so be it, I'm just sick and
> tired of you repeatedly reminding me of how I'm doing something wrong, and
> your declaration of "no one giving a fuck" about what you have to say
> because you aren't a fellow or you aren't a staff member is equally passive
> aggressive. I *worked* my butt off for this fellowship, and a fellowship
> with WMF is something I have been exploring and trying to develop for
> almost two years now. I'm honored to have it, beyond words. Anyone can
> apply to be a fellow Beria, and passively declaring that no one cares about
> you because you aren't paid, is just a mean slap in the face of everyone
> who works hard at WMF and as volunteers. And remember, there are chapter
> people who get paid to do their jobs, also.
>
> And this isn't just about me - you've done it to a lot of people. People I
> consider friends and colleagues, and people I don't even know well.
>
> I'm tired of having to worry about the things I post on this list,
> Internal-L, and Foundation-L, being to your disapproval. I'm also tired of
> the "monthly wait for what Beria will say to someone that will cause drama
> on a mailing list" situation. While I'm sure others greatly appreciate your
> attitude, I don't, and others do not as well. Your behavior and bullying
> (which is defined here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bullying) makes me
> have little to desire to participate in mailing list discussions, and even
> *less* desire to even consider attending a conference that you are
> co-planning. Which is something, civility, we touch on here on this mailing
> list, as being a deterrent for people wanting to participate in projects.
>
> This isn't the first time that I've actively, *and* publicly asked you to
> stop behaving like this.
>
> The goal of this list isn't to just "talk" about wanting to make changes,
> it's about making changes. Whether they are online, in any language
> project, or offline, through outreach, programming, edit-a-thons, and
> whatnot. I talk my talk and I walk my walk, and I know others here do too
> (and I try to share those projects when they are brought to my attention).
> And if me being "too sensitive" or me "caring too much" or "me being paid"
> is a deterrent to us moving the meter (aka closing the gap) then I guess
> I'm the worst representative for the gender gap movement.
>
> Beria - I'm not going to argue with you about this, I'm not going to ask
> you to ever like me, be my bestfriend, or make an exception. I just want
> you to stop bullying me, others, and learn how your words affects others
> before you type them. I can handle criticism, when it's constructive. Not
> when it's rude, insensitive, unprofessional and at times attacking.
>
> *and on another note, regarding language:
> *
> I only share what I know, and sadly, I have a permanent off switch in my
> head that makes it tough for me to learn other languages (and no, Google
> Translate does not count as quality accessibility), so when I can only talk
> for English Wikipedia, I only post about English Wikipedia. We've never
> called this list an English only list, I encourage people to participate in
> all languages, so please, please please do.
>
> I apologize to everyone for making this a big freaking mess, but, I'm
> tired of this. Absolutely tired of it. Tired to the point where I have had
> trouble sleeping - I mean what the hell is that about?
>
> Sarah
>
>
> --
> *Sarah Stierch*
> *Wikimedia Foundation Community Fellow*
> >>Support the sharing of free knowledge around the world: donate 
> >>today

Re: [Gendergap] A Women's Face for Fundraising

[Emily Monroe]

Congratulations, Wikimedia!

From,
Emily


On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>  Since this recently came up..
>
>
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_2011#Susan_Appeal_November_30.2C_2011
>
> Gastropods FTW!
>
> -Sarah
>
>
> --
> Sarah Stierch Consulting
> --
> Historical, cultural, new media & artistic research & advising.
> http://www.sarahstierch.com
>
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Re: [Gendergap] the state of civility on en.wiki

[Emily Monroe]

In my opinion, civility is a big, big deal, since it has the obvious effect
of running off potentially decent editors. In practice, this can be like
banning an innocent editor.

From,
Emily


On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 12:06 AM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:

> Earlier today, a long-standing editor was reported to AN/I for making
> personal attacks. The specific attacks were the following two posts:
> "You simply display your ignorance."
> "Please carry on, so everyone can see what an ignorant arse you are."
>
> As I had recently warned this same user for making personal attacks, and
> they have a long history of attacking other editors (blocked 4 times
> previously for personal attacks), I put a 24 hour block on their account
> for violating WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA.
>
> Even though this seems like a pretty minor slap on the wrist, my block
> was quickly undone by another admin and a slew of editors then
> vociferously attacked me for blocking (calling me a "petty tyrant", a
> "wannabe big-dick admin", etc.).
>
> I looked more carefully at the editor's block log and noticed that every
> one of their blocks for personal attacks had been undone by another
> admin (usually without much delay).
>
> This seems to say a lot about the current culture of en.wiki. Namely,
> that WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA are not taken seriously by our community (or at
> least a large percentage). As civility seems to be a recurring issue in
> gendergap discussions (and Sarah's recent survey), I was wondering what
> people's thoughts on this issue are. Has en.wiki become a toxic
> environment or am I just overreacting to normal behavior?
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
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Re: [Gendergap] This list

[Emily Monroe]

Yeah, I'm with Fluff.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 6:15 PM, ChaoticFluffy wrote:

> Ideal moderation, for me (and perhaps this isn't even possible; I'm not
> sure how the backends of these mailing lists work) would be directed at
> users, not individual emails. I wouldn't expect a moderator to approve every
> post, or to edit posts, or anything like that. But I would expect them to
> enforce the idea of "if you can't engage calmly and without attacking your
> colleagues, you don't get to engage here." A cool-down timeout if someone
> just seems to have gotten out of hand temporarily; permanent removal from
> the list if the person persistently cannot behave in a collegial manner.
>
> Yes, this puts me pretty strongly on the side of the evil "Civility
> Police." So be it.
>
> -Fluff
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Marc Riddell 
> wrote:
>
>> So that everyone is on the same frequency; what exactly is meant by
>> "moderation" when it comes to a discussion/conversation/debate? And what,
>> exactly, is a "moderator" expected to do"
>>
>> Marc Riddell
>>
>>
>> on 10/3/11 6:56 PM, Nathan at nawr...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > I agree that several posts recently should have resulted in some sort
>> > of moderation. I'm not sure [[WP:CIVIL]] is the answer... That's an
>> > English Wikipedia policy, and applying en.wp policies to non-en.wp
>> > venues generally gets a strong reaction from non en.wp'ers :-P
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] This list

[Emily Monroe]

I'm rather reluctant to speak out for the same reason. This list
*needs*moderation, because it combines sex and politics, a volatile
mixture.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:14 PM, ChaoticFluffy wrote:

> All I can say is that lately, this list has been going the same way as
> Foundation-l in my mind: it's becoming a place where there's no way in hell
> I'm posting, because people are going to scream at me, abuse me, and attack
> my every word. There are a couple people here who seem to really, really not
> buy into the necessity of CIVIL, and I for one would very much like to see
> some moderation to enforce civility. Disagree with people, fine. Call them
> nasty names, send email after email attacking everything they say long after
> the argument has been belabored to death, accuse them of lying or stupidity?
> You lose me, my attention, and my respect. I think this is a reflection of
> the problem on both Wikipedia and Wikipedia mailing lists: some people love
> to attack, and some people love to keep beating a dead horse, and the people
> who love those things inevitably drown out the saner, calm people who would
> otherwise speak up as the voice of reason. I had hoped that this mailing
> list could be a safe haven from that sort of thing, but it's turning into
> just another place to avoid.
>
> -Fluff
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Fred Bauder wrote:
>
>> > I know that it is not typically stringently enforced on mailing lists,
>> > but
>> > I think that enforcing [[WP:CIVIL]] would be a good idea on this list.
>>  I
>> > can understand concerns over any form of moderation, but believe that
>> for
>> > this list the benefits far outweigh the costs.  An open atmosphere where
>> > everyone feels comfortable participating is necessary for this list to
>> > have any purpose - and [[WP:CIVIL]] enforcement would be a good first
>> > step
>> > towards establishing that.
>> >
>> > I'm not, to be clear, suggesting the moderation of dissenting
>> viewpoints.
>> > I’m just suggesting that because of the nature of this list it would
>> be
>> > especially, extraordinarily, unusually counterproductive to allow a
>> > combative or uncivil environment to take root here.
>> >
>> > I'm also tempted to just say that we should broadly defer to Sarah in
>> > moderation.  I trust her judgment, and I cannot imagine her trying to
>> > censor viewpoints just because she disagrees with them.
>> >
>> > 
>> > Kevin Gorman
>>
>> Enforcement of our civility rules on this list is inappropriate as it may
>> be applied to women posters who may have grievances. Not that venting is
>> appropriate.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] This list

[Emily Monroe]

Maybe create our own civility guidelines?

From,
Emily


On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> I agree that several posts recently should have resulted in some sort
> of moderation. I'm not sure [[WP:CIVIL]] is the answer... That's an
> English Wikipedia policy, and applying en.wp policies to non-en.wp
> venues generally gets a strong reaction from non en.wp'ers :-P
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Nudity vs Islam in Western Europe

[Emily Monroe]

Hmm. Perhaps, Fred, perhaps. ;-)

From,
Emily


On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Fred Bauder  wrote:

> So you think we might get more done if we have the common sense not to
> discuss politics and religion?
>
> Fred
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Apologies for my bad English. English is not my mother tongue.
> >
> > Let us not use this mailing list to discuss religion. Let us concentrate
> > on
> > strategies to improve participation of women in Wikimedia projects
> > instead.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > --
> > Netha Hussain
> > User: Netha Hussain
> > Student of Medicine and Surgery
> > *nethahussain.blogspot.com
> > swethaambari.wordpress.com*
> >
> >
> > remember that women's rights are way, way more important than
> > the interests of Wikimedia Foundation.
> > On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:58 AM, Ryan Kaldari
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Just wanted to say that I didn't take any offense from Michael's
> >> comments. I was probably a bit out of line in my characterization of
> >> Christianity. I was just trying to point out that any religion, when
> >> taken literally, can be problematic. There were actually many books
> >> published during the American Civil War about how the Bible endorsed
> >> slavery. They make a convincing argument if you accept all of their
> >> Bible quotes taken out of context.
> >>
> >> The part about women being subservient is actually quite pervasive in
> >> the bible, both old and new testament. See:
> >> 1 Peter 3:1-6
> >> 1 Timothy 2:11-14
> >> Colossians 3:18
> >> Ephesians 5:22-23
> >> 1 Corinthians 14:33-35
> >> 1 Corinthians 11:3-10
> >> Isaiah 19:16
> >> Deuteronomy 22:20-21
> >> Genesis 3:16
> >> Genesis 2:18
> >> This is certainly not a novel interpretation. Indeed it seems very
> >> difficult to argue that the Bible does not consider women subservient
> >> to
> >> men.
> >>
> >> The part about beards is Old Testament and only taken seriously by
> >> Orthodox Christians, Amish, Mennonites, etc.
> >>
> >> The part about putting adulterers to death is also Old Testament and
> >> obviously not taken seriously by most Christians, although John Calvin
> >> did argue that the Bible justified the death penalty for adultery (as
> >> have other Christians historically).
> >>
> >> All that said, I am not trying to imply that modern Christianity is an
> >> oppressive religion. I'm just saying that historically, it has a few
> >> skeletons in its closet and it went through some serious growing pains,
> >> as is Islam.
> >>
> >> Ryan Kaldari
> >>
> >> On 9/23/11 7:00 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Emily
> >> Monroe
> >>  wrote:
> >> >> Michael Lowry, what you just said was said was sarcastic and
> >> potentially
> >> >> uncivil.
> >> > So Ryan and Carol can lie about MY religion, and I'M the one accused
> >> > of incivility?
> >> >
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >>
> > ___
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> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> >
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] WikiChix

[Emily Monroe]

My older brother is a Linux nerd, but I haven't heard of the LinuxChix
movement.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:15 PM, Nicole Willson
wrote:

> Some of your probably already know this but the term "chix" references the
> LinuxChix movement. But if it's spoken and not written, it could very easily
> come off as 70s throwback.
>
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
>> I don't think I've heard/read "chick" for several years.
>>
>> From,
>> Emily
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:41 AM, John Vandenberg wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Sarah Stierch 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Hi everyone,
>>> >
>>> > I've had a few conversations, and heard/read a number of comments about
>>> the
>>> > term "WikiChix." Now I've never been much of a "chick", and it seems
>>> other
>>> > women tend to agree in the terminology as being a bit...hokey, old
>>> school
>>> > and not the most contemporary.
>>> >
>>> > I'd like to see how we can re-develop the concept into something else.
>>> I've
>>> > been using just the simple term of "Women in Wikimedia" etc, but I know
>>> > that's not the most quirky or exciting sound term when it comes to
>>> trying to
>>> > be clever at a luncheon or whatever. There's also the "Women of
>>> Wikimedia"
>>> > but "WoW"...hehe... "Oh is this a Warcraft meet-up?"
>>> >
>>> > I also joined the WikiChix mailing list over a month and ago and there
>>> has
>>> > been no activity. I'm starting to think perhaps we can retire the term
>>> for
>>> > the sake of contemporary thinking.
>>> >
>>> > But, perhaps I'm just being uber and everyone thinks it's the cutest
>>> name
>>> > ever and should be kept.
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts?
>>>
>>> If you contribute to Wikisource, you can become a wikisourcerer, which
>>> has a nice ring to it..
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Vandenberg
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> "Only the shallow know themselves." - Oscar Wilde
>
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Re: [Gendergap] WikiChix

[Emily Monroe]

I don't think I've heard/read "chick" for several years.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 8:41 AM, John Vandenberg  wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:20 PM, Sarah Stierch 
> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've had a few conversations, and heard/read a number of comments about
> the
> > term "WikiChix." Now I've never been much of a "chick", and it seems
> other
> > women tend to agree in the terminology as being a bit...hokey, old school
> > and not the most contemporary.
> >
> > I'd like to see how we can re-develop the concept into something else.
> I've
> > been using just the simple term of "Women in Wikimedia" etc, but I know
> > that's not the most quirky or exciting sound term when it comes to trying
> to
> > be clever at a luncheon or whatever. There's also the "Women of
> Wikimedia"
> > but "WoW"...hehe... "Oh is this a Warcraft meet-up?"
> >
> > I also joined the WikiChix mailing list over a month and ago and there
> has
> > been no activity. I'm starting to think perhaps we can retire the term
> for
> > the sake of contemporary thinking.
> >
> > But, perhaps I'm just being uber and everyone thinks it's the cutest name
> > ever and should be kept.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> If you contribute to Wikisource, you can become a wikisourcerer, which
> has a nice ring to it..
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Nudity vs Islam in Western Europe

[Emily Monroe]

I wouldn't mind a religion-L list, if it means that the argument here ends.

Michael, I wasn't defending people from being confronted, I was defending
people from being confronted in a sarcastic manner, which is inappropriate
in an online forum.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Fred Bauder wrote:

>
> > I'm sorry we lost Arnaud over a conversation like this, the power of
> > conversation is that people do disagree, and sometimes people don't quite
> > like disagreement.
> > --Sarah
>
> I guess Arnaud is a man, although I'm still not sure. I'm not all that
> firm in rejecting his viewpoint about Islam, which I think has some
> traction in Europe. Sometimes I wonder whether tolerance of Islam in any
> form isn't really dumb, but then I think about Muslims I have met though
> Wikipedia and elsewhere on the internet and know that this is not a black
> and white issue, as is also not the case with most gender issues.
>
> Fred
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Nudity vs Islam in Western Europe

[Emily Monroe]

Michael Lowry, what you just said was said was sarcastic and potentially
uncivil.

Arnaud, (if you can read this) if you are serious about unsubscribing, be my
guest, but if you should resubscribe, please don't threaten to unsubscribe.
Just do it.

I asked my question under the assumption that a lot of Muslims are either
liberal or moderate, and therefore don't necessarily always interpret the
koran literally (or even reject parts of it outright!) and that even
conservative Muslims are going to be reasonable enough to realize that woman
deserve equal rights as men.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:01 PM, Carol Moore in DC  wrote:

> Actually that's the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible which is accepted more or
> less by most of Christianity. Though obviously evangelicals take all of
> it more seriously, even some of the parts Jesus (allegedly) rejected.
>
> On 9/23/2011 7:23 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Ryan Kaldari
>  wrote:
> >> Of course the Christian Bible still says that women are
> >> subservient to their husbands (as Michelle Bachmann recently reminded
> us).
> >> It also endorses slavery, says that adulterers must be put to death, and
> >> requires men to grow beards.
> > Gee, thanks for telling me what my religion teaches and believes - NOT!
> >
> > Try studying the variety of Christian teachings outside the
> > televangelists sometime.
> >
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] 13 year old joins WP Pornography?

[Emily Monroe]

Here's a question: What if viewing pornography by anyone, of any age, is
illegal where you live? Can you join WP:PORNOGRAPHY then? Not saying it's
something you should risk, just saying.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 6:55 PM,  wrote:

>  For legal reasons you have to have a minimum age of 18 and kick off anyone
> who admits they are under 18 or are somehow exposed as being under 18.
> (Unless all those opposed want to put up their real names and addresses and
> personally claim full legal and financial responsibility for any criminal
> charges.)
>
> The question is, is there a legal duty to verify age of those who do not
> reveal their age? Or who lie about it, should there be a requirement they
> reveal it?
>
>
> On 9/23/2011 5:45 PM, Andreas Kolbe wrote:
>
>   Whether or not the editor is indeed thirteen years old is probably
> relatively unimportant.
>
>  What matters is that voices in the RfC generally (about 3:1) oppose the
> idea of a minimum age of 18 for contributors to the WikiProject.
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#RfC:_Should_underage_editors_be_topic_banned_from_articles_in_the_WikiProject_Pornography_topic_area.3F
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Nudity vs Islam in Western Europe

[Emily Monroe]

Personally, I really don't understand why people get upset about Islamic
women *choosing* to wear hijabs, or niqabs, under the pretense of feminism.
Part of what feminism fights for is the right to choose. This is the
unintended consequence.

I get the practical arguments (ie, "I don't know who this person is" etc.)
is, though, and I think any girl or women who has their wardrobe dictated by
another person is being abused, unless there's a non-abusive reason behind
it; I doubt that anyone wearing a work or school uniform would qualify as
being abused.

From,
Emily


On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Arnaud HERVE wrote:

> I am not sure this is strictly on-topic, but I thought it might be
> interesting concerning female appearance issues.
>
> We are starting presidential campaigns in France now, and there is a
> candidate for the right of women to wear the niqab (full clothing except
> for the eyes)
>
> Here is an article, you probably won't understand it but you will see
> the video, which I think is telling :
>
>
> http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/2012-la-candidate-du-niqab-22-09-2011-1376118_23.php
>
> In this interview, basically she claims it is her individual right as a
> woman, to wear the niqab as she would wear a mini-skirt. Feminists on
> the contrary argue that it is not a mere piece of clothe, but a
> submission to Islamic law, which implies a loss of civic rights for women.
>
> So that's what I said earlier, there is now a contradiction between
> multiculturalism and women's rights. Both of which used to belong
> together in the side of progress, traditionally.
>
> On a more practical level, you can understand that she won't be able to
> run the full campaign, because it will not be possible to identify her.
> It could be her sister or her mom any time. Women wearing the niqab are
> already refused in many jobs, because precisely it is impossible to know
> who is the employee. In the case of a kindergarten for example it could
> even be a man impersonating his sister.
>
> But here it will make some noise, because it is her intention to get
> banned for the presidential campaign, and it is precisely that sort of
> publicity she is looking for.
>
> Arnaud
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] WP:Feminism Milestone

[Emily Monroe]

Yay! *downs her beer*

From,
Emily


On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

> Just wanted to give a shout out to WikiProject:Feminism! Today the project
> hit a milestone - 100 members!
>
> A round of Wikilove beers for all!
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Feminism#WikiProject_Feminism_milestone
>
> Now who will become the 101st? ;)
>
> -Sarah
>
> --
> GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia 
> Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
> Art
> and
> Sarah Stierch Consulting
> *Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.*
> --
> http://www.sarahstierch.com/
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Hairdresser

[Emily Monroe]

Yes! Go us!

From,
Emily


On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:35 PM, John Vandenberg  wrote:

> very nice.
>
> --
> John Vandenberg
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Labiaplasty

[Emily Monroe]

1. If it's so clear that the "before and after" picture is of not one but
two women, what is the intention behind it being restored? I know the
answers could very well be guessestimates at best at this point, but how can
we figure this out?
2. If the picture is showing results of a non-medical procedure, it should
be stated as such. I remember accessing Wikipedia several times throughout
my teenaged years; we cannot expect all of our readers to be an adult with a
better understanding of anatomy.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 3:24 PM, Ole Palnatoke Andersen  wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 6:37 PM, Sarah  wrote:
> ...
> > What really bothers me is the "before" image shows a woman within a
> > normal range, yet we are presenting this as something in need of
> > surgery. I'm concerned that young women could stumble on this and
> > start to doubt themselves.
>
> Somewhat related: The most well-known Danish woman's self-awareness
> book, [[da:Kvinde, kend din krop]] was originally published in 1975,
> and has been revised several times since. This year, the group behind
> the book opened a photo booth in order to collect images of the
> diversity of female genitalia. Have a look at it at
> http://kvindekenddinkrop.dk/ - use your favourite translation service
> if you don't read Danish (no, there are no genitalia on the front page
> - the link 'BILLEDERNE' will take you there).
>
> Regards,
> Ole
>
> --
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Re: [Gendergap] Weird lame body fashion whatever website of the day

[Emily Monroe]

Holy...what?

I don't know how to respond.

From,
Emily


On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Arnaud HERVE wrote:

>  By the way the Italian page shows porn model Aria Giovanni.
>
>
> On 17/09/2011 18:31, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>
> Neckline!!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neckline
>
> The choices are really mediocre for the "neckline" women's section.  One of
> the photos is titled "Boobies.jpg."
>
> :P
>
> --
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> Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
> Art
> and
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> *Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.*
> --
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>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Projects/Ideas page in Wikipedia to address the gendergap

[Emily Monroe]

I wonder if there can be a gender gap task force, that can be headed by
Wikipedia countering systemic bias. Maybe gender studies, women's studies,
and feminism can help recruit people who are knowledgeable about closing
gender gaps.

From,
Emily


On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

> A WP Gender Gap? We do have Gender Studies, Feminism..Women's
> Studies...Systematic Bias...
>
> any staff or other folks want to chime in about this?
>
> -Sarah (Stierch)
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Sarah  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 14:19, Sarah Stierch 
>> wrote:
>> > I've also been fiddling around with this:
>> >
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch/Women_related_articles
>> >
>> > I'd like to host it other than in my userspace...and feel free to add to
>> > it..it's a work in progress. Please contribute. This is based on content
>> > linked to "women" and more. Feel free to add content that needs to be
>> > created as well.
>> >
>> > -Sarah
>>
>> I wonder whether we should start a WikiProject Gender gap --
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Gender_gap&action=edit&redlink=1
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Bikini example

[Emily Monroe]

How about using the German article to help out with the English one, and
refactoring/deleting anything on the talk page that talks about anything
except the article it's attached to?

From,
Emily


On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Arnaud HERVE wrote:

> I just found an example which seems to me exemplary of a male dominated
> disaster :
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
>
> In the Article page what struck me as wrong was :
>
> 1) The Sports bikini in beach volleyball photo, which has non pertinent
> erotic content imho
>
> 2) The chapter about male underwear, which seems to me so inappropriate
> AND ridiculous I can't even begin to describe it.
>
> In the Discussion page there is totally male point of view discussion
> about whether the girl in red is in good shape enough.
>
> Then there is the raging Outrage comment which I fear might become
> systematic if you leave the door opened for that. I have never seen a
> kid being shocked by going to the beach and seeing bikinis. That's a
> perverse erotic assumption imho, under the guise of high morality.
>
> I took the time to have a look at the German page :
>
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bikini
>
> 1) The first photo is semantically right, it shows better that bikinis
> are used to go the beach and swimming
>
> 2) The history chapter is better developed
>
> 3) The gallery and the drawings aptly show different kinds of bikinis
>
> 4) No ridiculous male underwear content
>
> Also, there was a beach sports photo which seemed to me much better and
> devoid of erotic content yesterday. But sadly it's been removed at the
> moment I speak. It was this one :
>
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Beach_volleyball-Huntington_Beach-California_1.jpg
>
> Ah yes and also the discussion on the German page is more competent and
> calm imho.
>
> So as a conclusion, the German bikini page represents for me a right
> state of mind and proper educational content, fit to be used in a school
> with students interested in fashion. The English page seems to me more
> influence by more or less lunatic authors, or authors less interested in
> knowledge.
>
> Arnaud
>
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikifashion

[Emily Monroe]

>
> I think a number of people here can relate to this sentiment. When I was a
> child, one of my bedrooms was white with pink roses. I hated it so much, I
> slept in a closet..literally, by choice. As a teenager I was raised by my
> father and teal and black were the shades of choice. To this very day I wear
> black most days and I prefer "fuchsia" over pink.  But, I must admit, I love
> the smell of roses.
>
> I don't believe any of us want an uber-femme Wikipedia to be a tool to
> encourage contributors. I do really like the idea of expanding on skin
> options, and I do think the option of having a "user friendly" look can help
> improve contributions [snip]
>

My point exactly!

From,
Emily


On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Emily Monroe wrote:
>
>>
>> I find I'm not really girly girly all that much. Pink and purple used to
>> be my absolute favorite colors, for example, but now "Pretty much shade of
>> blue" fills a slot above them. Of course, at least in America, blue=baby
>> boy, know what I mean?
>>
>> What I'm trying to say is, sometimes somebody who's comfortable with being
>> a woman isn't always going to fulfill the "fluff, rainbow, unicorns, and
>> sparkles!" stereotypical of how a woman should act. I don't want a backlash
>> in response to this sort of concern severe enough that I feel uncomfortable
>> editing.
>>
>>
> I think a number of people here can relate to this sentiment. When I was a
> child, one of my bedrooms was white with pink roses. I hated it so much, I
> slept in a closet..literally, by choice. As a teenager I was raised by my
> father and teal and black were the shades of choice. To this very day I wear
> black most days and I prefer "fuchsia" over pink.  But, I must admit, I love
> the smell of roses.
>
> I don't believe any of us want an uber-femme Wikipedia to be a tool to
> encourage contributors. I do really like the idea of expanding on skin
> options, and I do think the option of having a "user friendly" look can help
> improve contributions (just like the visual editor..which I have missed a
> demo of..twice).
>
> In a fantasy world it'd be really neat to demo different skins and user
> experiences with women of all ages - usability studies (like we do at the
> Archives of American Art with researchers of all ages and experience
> levels). I suppose that will be the only way we'll know if aesthetics,
> functionality and usability matter when it comes to women contributing to
> Wikipedia.
>
> -Sarah
> (and yeah I like unicorns..)
>
> --
> GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for Wikimedia <http://www.glamwiki.org>
> Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American 
> Art<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch>
> and
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Re: [Gendergap] Wikifashion

[Emily Monroe]

>
> As one of the females in the male-dominated wiki world, I have sometimes
> felt that I've had to put my girliness aside in order to be taken seriously.
> I also feel that there is a backlash against girly pink userpages and the
> like on wiki projects and that generalizations are made about people based
> on their username or userpage and not on their contributions to the wiki.
>

I find I'm not really girly girly all that much. Pink and purple used to be
my absolute favorite colors, for example, but now "Pretty much shade of
blue" fills a slot above them. Of course, at least in America, blue=baby
boy, know what I mean?

What I'm trying to say is, sometimes somebody who's comfortable with being a
woman isn't always going to fulfill the "fluff, rainbow, unicorns, and
sparkles!" stereotypical of how a woman should act. I don't want a backlash
in response to this sort of concern severe enough that I feel uncomfortable
editing.

From,
Emily


On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Nicole Willson
wrote:

> As a wikiHowian, I can speak to this a bit. Although I can't speak for
> Jack, I have my own aversions to purple girly welcome messages and I think
> this reasoning is seen on other wiki projects.
>
> On wikiHow we have struggled to have professional looking welcome messages.
> I think the worst of it was one that had a picture of a bunny and said
> "follow the bunny to wikiHow" or something like that. So, I think that view
> may have (at least for me) trickled down  even to welcome messages that are
> a "girly" color", since I am concerned that girliness and even just girly
> colors will cause wikiHow to be taken less seriously as a project.
>
> The funny thing, however, is that one of the "girlier" welcome messages
> I've seen (pastel background, '<3') is one that was created by a male
> wikiHowian and no one seems to have any problem with it so far that I know
> of.
>
> As one of the females in the male-dominated wiki world, I have sometimes
> felt that I've had to put my girliness aside in order to be taken seriously.
> I also feel that there is a backlash against girly pink userpages and the
> like on wiki projects and that generalizations are made about people based
> on their username or userpage and not on their contributions to the wiki.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Sue Gardner wrote:
>
>> On 14 September 2011 10:03, Michael J. Lowrey 
>> wrote:
>> > On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Sarah Stierch <
>> sarah.stie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I do like this though (scroll down to badges), not the portraits..but
>> the
>> >> round badges. I'd love to see something like this developed for
>> Wikipedia.
>> >> I'd have them on my tumblr, etc.
>> >>
>> >> http://wikifashion.com/wiki/Wikifashion:Contributors_Needed
>> >
>> > Really I find them loathsome in the extreme; very Facebooky.
>>
>>
>> S funny: everyone is different, and that is fine.
>>
>> I remember Jack Herrick seeming flustered and a little embarrassed one
>> day by a purple girly welcome message on WikiHow. But I loved the
>> purple girly welcome message, personally :-)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sue
>>
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Re: [Gendergap] Dubious talk page discussions (was:Re: An example of clothed model in medical document)

[Emily Monroe]

I will very rarely delete conversations that violate common talk page sense
(ie, talk only about the article, and not the subject of the article, don't
try to contact the subject of a BLP article, etc.). I then put a template or
two on the talk page, like {{Not a forum}}, or {{Q&A}}. Really, the only
reason for the rarity of this action is the fact that I don't see it very
often.

From,
Emily


On Thu, Sep 15, 2011 at 12:11 AM, Daniel and Elizabeth Case <
danc...@frontiernet.net> wrote:

> >
> > I don't have very good examples in mind, but maybe user Valorum27 fits
> > the description here :
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sleeveless_shirt#Is_this_necessary.3F
> >
> > He is alone in this example but if there were more, it would bring back
> > sexual focus.
> >
> > A better example is this, which personally I find pathetic :
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Skirt#Sexist
> >
> > And it's the user who didn't want female content who started it, albeit
> > with good intentions certainly.
> >
> > I imagine that if on the contrary you'd let viewers look away without
> > mentioning decency, it would be much better, and more proper to focus on
> > the clothe.
>
> On the other side, years ago, when I saw this discussion (at the top of the
> page), I blanked it right away because it didn't belong on the talk page:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Miniskirt&oldid=115184039
>
> Daniel Case
>
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Consent for photographs on Commons

[Emily Monroe]

FloNight said:

> [snip]

It make no real difference what it is called, guideline or policy, as long
> as everyone one is singing from the same page in the hymnal. The deletion
> discussion over the past week, (and there have been many of them using lack
> of model consent as reason) have  gone well. Friendly, with no conduct
> issues that I can see. No extreme hyperbole. Largely people are discussing
> the images by citing policy, and admins are closing them with consensus.
>

Nice to hear about civility being done! [?]

From,
Emily


On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 3:50 PM, Sydney Poore wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 4:16 PM, Ryan Kaldari wrote:
>
>> On 9/13/11 8:03 PM, Sarah Stierch wrote:
>> > I think this is really great, thank you Kaldari for taking the time to
>> > create this.
>> >
>> > The n00b in me asks :
>> >
>> >  1) Is this trackable? That is, a hidden category or anything?
>>
>> There aren't any categories currently, but I could add some. Right now,
>> you can view all the images it is used on at
>> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Consent
>>
>> > 2) I think we should solidify the policy documentation (i.e. the
>> > recent board passing, etc), and complete that work before we promote
>> > this template.
>>
>> Right now there is no actual policy as far as I know, just a guideline
>> and a resolution. Getting something encoded as policy might be a good
>> goal to work towards.
>>
>> Ryan Kaldari
>>
>
> It make no real difference what it is called, guideline or policy, as long
> as everyone one is singing from the same page in the hymnal. The deletion
> discussion over the past week, (and there have been many of them using lack
> of model consent as reason) have  gone well. Friendly, with no conduct
> issues that I can see. No extreme hyperbole. Largely people are discussing
> the images by citing policy, and admins are closing them with consensus.
>
> I know that there has been division about this in the past, but if people
> use the consent template as you have written it, I think that everything
> will be fine.
> Sydney
>
> User:FloNight
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap humor

[Emily Monroe]

Oh, funny wife.

From,
Emily


On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 8:17 PM, Michael J. Lowrey wrote:

> I recently attended a Wikipedia Campus Ambassador training, in which
> almost all the experienced Wiki hands were male and bearded, and the
> newbies were both female and not. When I recounted this to my wife and
> daughter, the wife speculated, "Does this mean that excessive time
> spent editing at Wikimedia turns you male and/or bearded?"
>
> --
> Michael J. "Orange Mike" Lowrey
> male, bearded, about twenty+ years older than anybody else in the room
> at the time
>
> "When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left, I buy food
> and clothes."
>  --  Desiderius Erasmus
>
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Re: [Gendergap] Calling all neutral user names She?

[Emily Monroe]

I've been both mistaken for a male, and usually kind-hardheartedly teased
for being female ever since, I believe, I got on the internet.

So yeah. I'm not even embarrassed about it anymore.

From,
Emily


On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:19 PM,  wrote:

> I used to use they, but with all these "she's" lately, and some editors
> calling her "he", I thought... why not.
>
> Someone mentioned privately
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Modern_solutions
>
> So options is best way to go, and let nature take its course as what
> seems most appropriate or the mood I'm in...
>
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