Re: License issue (the come back)
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 07:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Peter Donald wrote: They still include the jaxp source code, in xml-commons. But it's a clean-room implementation, made directly from the spec. The directly from the spec is where the problem lies. It uses suns IP and thus must the TCK. We don't and thus we are in violation of the license and thus Apache and every user is open to being sued if sun chooses to do so. This is getting intersting... Thats one way of describing it ;) To be honest, I allways believed that Jaxp, and all are 'open standards'. ( i.e. they allow clean room implementation ) Nope ;( Again, we need a lawyer here - but if this is the case I think we should do something. There are plenty of open standards ( too many even :-), and if a spec is not open, it shouldn't be used - but an alternative ( or a new open standard ). I hear many java APIs are cloned to .net, and that a lot of .net is 'open standard' - I'm pretty sure it has a lot of APIs that could do the same thing as the non-open ones, and we can clone them in java. An open API/standard should be used whenever possible. Its sad when you start thinking microsofts platform is more open :/ I think this may be an avenue depending on how the revision of the JCP goes. If it doesn't go well and someone with enough political correctness was willing to go for it I think it would be a very good way to progress. It would first be a matter of establishing relationships with other big players in Java world that have clout and are sympathetic to our situation. ie If we could set up a decent process and work with other standards organizations (ECMA, IEEE, W3C), have a relatively formal participation contract (and thus *safe* from eyes of corporate/IP lawyers) and finally make allies of organisations like IBM, Apple and whoever else then it would be viable for many things. We could even join up with existing opensource organizations to cross-pollinate ideas. Apache + GNU + Eclipse + Netbeans + JBoss would make an impressive opensource shard. IBM + Apple + others would make a fairly convincing commercial shard. Join em together and we have a new Java standards body. It still would be difficult to do anything with respect to the real core as Sun controls the source to a large degree. However for many of the other components/add-ons then it would be quite viable to do this. Especially if tools like JDiff+XDoclet could auotmate most API testing and functional testing could be done with JUnit or some other custom framework. It is not so much a technical problem but a marketing one. Given the right environment I think it could happen - best to wait and see how JCP reorg turns out though. -- Cheers, Pete -- An intellectual is someone who has been educated beyond their intelligence. -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMC Chair elelection
Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: +1 to Sam being chair regardless of whether he wants to or not ;) I second this nomination... Sam's great at handling crap jobs :) :) :) (Ok, ok... He's also great on great stuff... But that's not the point!) Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java.
apart Fujitsu, did you ever see these corps in oss ? As usually Sun take the bad decision, at the bad moment. .NET/C# is emerging and try to attract OSS talents. They feel they are strong enough today to have to continue with oss community and that only majors firms will give them the necessary user base. What will be the next step ? Make you pay JDK ? Did they decive us ? May be ? May be it's really time to see if the next standards (for oss) should came from jcp, or from more open groups ? I was just thinking about log4j case, which is an excellent piece of code but wasn't use in latest jdk. But you know what ? People use log4j because it came from Apache and is synonim of quality. So who should decide of next standards and apis for oss ? w3c, ASF, exolab, enhydra but certainly no more jcp. - Henri Gomez ___[_] EMAIL : [EMAIL PROTECTED](. .) PGP KEY : 697ECEDD...oOOo..(_)..oOOo... PGP Fingerprint : 9DF8 1EA8 ED53 2F39 DC9B 904A 364F 80E6 -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:44 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java. +1 On Thu, 2002-03-14 at 01:25, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: I like the title. :-) http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0313.1 -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Suntolock Open Source out of Java.
GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So who should decide of next standards and apis for oss ? w3c, Good candidate... Too bad that they don't own the word JAVA. ASF, We don't do API, we do products FWIW... This major shift should be a thing to be seriously considered by the members exolab, After a long association with them I hope... NOT! enhydra Not their focus... but certainly no more jcp. Why not? That's all the Foundation is fighting for ATM... Complaining about things like that will not change the world in which we are living in... What the Foundation is doing is _right_, and thanks to the invaluable contributions of people such as Jason Hunter, James Duncan Davidson, Sam Ruby, Chuck Murcho we can say that we're slowly getting there... Complaining on a mailing list doesn't help, maybe suggesting being propositive and active on another might... Pier -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun to lock Open Source out of Java.
-Original Message- From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On 3/14/02 9:25 AM, GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was just thinking about log4j case, which is an excellent piece of code but wasn't use in latest jdk. Right and even though I know that logging will be in the next JDK, I am still going to design using it. But you know what ? People use log4j because it came from Apache and is synonim of quality. Nah - I use log4j because it *is* quality. Maybe people give it a look because of the apache relationship, but I clearly use it for what it is. Geir The log4j issue highlights a couple other flaws in Sun's Put everything in the world in the JDK approach. How many people, doing product development in the real world can actually make use of the new logging API (or other JDK 1.4 specific features)? It only exists in JDK 1.4 and for licensing reasons will never exist outside an official JDK. What about code that has to run on platforms that don't have a 1.4 JRE yet? What about shops developing with tools that don't support JDK 1.4 yet? What about code that has to run inside containers that don't support 1.4 JREs yet? Then there is the risk factor. Suppose the logging facility works great, but there is a serious bug, or performance problem or whatever that makes the JDK not feasible for production? By using JDK1.4 specific features you've locked yourself in and you can't go back without serious effort. How many companies are willing to risk blowing their development schedules on a new JDK release? I think a lot of shops will wait for JDK 1.4.1 before they really switch over. Contrast that with Log4J. It works on any platform with a Java runtime. Its been around long enough that the kinks have been worked out. Lots of APIs and components already use it. The cost/benefit, risk/reward analysis swings pretty far away from the JDK stuff. Marc Saegesser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: License issue (the come back)
Peter Donald wrote: ie If we could set up a decent process and work with other standards organizations (ECMA, IEEE, W3C), have a relatively formal participation contract (and thus *safe* from eyes of corporate/IP lawyers) and finally make allies of organisations like IBM, Apple and whoever else then it would be viable for many things. This would be good. Open source software has a strong position in the web marketplace. It should be possible to use that position to gain influence in standards processes. The IETF is an open body that sets network standards; why can't there be a similar body that standardises APIs? I do feel, however, that the appropriate model is the IETF, not the W3C. The W3C charges a fee for participation, which discriminates against open source efforts. It is better than JCP, but if we are designing our own standards body why settle for second best? The IETF has worked through the intellectual property problems. So for example when you attend a working group meeting you receive a piece of paper saying that you can't do a Rambus... The IETF will allow patented algorithms under certain circumstances. Of course we are free to decide not to. The IETF is a good model, IMHO, but we don't have to create an exact copy. It still would be difficult to do anything with respect to the real core as Sun controls the source to a large degree. Well, gcj is one free implementation of much of the core. At the same time, it would probably be unhelpful to come up with a revision of the core J2SE standard. It makes sense to concentrate on areas where standards are in more of a state of flux. -- Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PMC Chair elelection
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Peter Donald wrote: +1 to Sam being chair regardless of whether he wants to or not ;) +1 - if he doesn't want it, he'll be even better for the job :-) Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sunto lock Open Source out of Java.
on 3/14/02 7:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, I believe their vote was to allow the proposal to move on to public review stage. And I believe this is the _right_ thing to do. Why bother? In other words, if after the public review stage, it all ends up changing again, what was the point of even going forward to the public review stage? Dolphin - Public Review - Corn Cob Doesn't make sense. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: License issue (the come back)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 12:07 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: License issue (the come back) snip / Please, not another standard body !!! Could someone check the definition of 'standard' ? Something, such as a practice or a product, that is widely recognized or employed, especially because of its excellence It is not something with the word 'standard' in the title, nor does it require a 'standard body' to give it this status. Apache httpd is a standard. Log4j is a standard. At lest 1/2 of the stuff that comes out of JCP is not standard ( by this definition ), even if it has the word standard in title and a standard body to put a stamp on it. We are talking about APIs - and my opinion is a good API requires a lot of feedback and iterations - that's not what the 'public review' can even be close to providing. No expert or expert group can substitute that, regardless of how good he is. Costin You chose a definition that suits your argument. In the industry, the definition is usually more like: That which is established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, extent, value, or quality; esp., the original specimen weight or measure sanctioned by government, as the standard pound, gallon, or yard. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, C 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. Apache httpd isn't a standard in that sense. It implements a standard, the HTTP standard, RFC2616, and others. Log4J isn't a standard, it's a product. It's in wide use, but it isn't even universally used within Jakarta. Commons-logging is closer to a standard than Log4J. [Note, I use log4j in my applications. It *is* the standard that has been set within my company. That provides for interop between components that we develop.] Tomcat, on the other hand, is a standard. As a Reference Implementation of the Servlet and JSP specifications, it is authoritative when the specification is silent or ambiguous. If a web app functions correctly on Tomcat, and does not on, for example, WebSphere, then, unless Tomcat is demonstrably not implementing the spec, WebSphere is broken. RI doesn't mean sample code, or proof of concept, both of which are valuable, it means this is part of the definition. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java.
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 3/14/02 7:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jon, I believe their vote was to allow the proposal to move on to public review stage. And I believe this is the _right_ thing to do. Why bother? In other words, if after the public review stage, it all ends up changing again, what was the point of even going forward to the public review stage? To get the developer feedback on the proposal ? None of the companies you mentioned voted for the licence, but to let the community participate and send feedback. Which is a good vote. What do you understand by 'public review stage' ? My understanding is that this is the point where whatever the EG discussed behind closed doors, without any feedback from the community, is published and the EG is supposed to get the feedback. The EG or JCP members have no power to make something standard - it's the developers who adopts ( or not ) the specs who have this power. In most cases the 'public review' is used to find spelling errors ( compare most 'public draft' and 'final' versions of the specs ). This means either that the EG is indeed so good that they create the perfect specification, or that nobody care about the spec enough to actually review it, or that the public review is just somethig to give the ilusion that people are involved. So I understand your feeling the the 'public review' means close to nothing in most cases. But that's the fundamental problem with the JCP - not the licence. If a JCP spec ( including that ) doesn't get enough public review and is not able to change (even 180 degree ) based on the feedback it gets from the public, then the process is totally broken, regardless of licence. There is a vote after the public review - and if 90% of the feedback from public is we'll not implement or use any spec that is released under this licence, but search or create an open and unrestricted standard, then I doubt all those companies will vote the same. As long as the developers review and feedback doesn't play the dominant role in releasing and defining the standard, I do believe the process is broken and will produce mediocre or bad standards. So in a way, I wouldn't mind if the licence is restrictive - it only means the specs will get less chance to become standards, and more chance that an open process will create the real standards. Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
About third-party software in ASF distributions
Hi ASF folks, I sort of recognize from the current debates about JCP that it may not be the perfect time to send such a request, but I'll dare it. This mail is sent to both XML and Jakarta general list as they are both involved, thanks to tell me if it is useless to send it to both. Recently, in our ActiveMath project we spent some time to prepare an appropriate license and, of course, we had to sort out all the third-party libraries we were using. As most of them are Apache or Mozilla licensed, there was no big deal. I quickly realized, however, that some others were coming in. SAX and DOM, to name a few. I scratched and found the license. Then a bit more... ah the servlet interface class-files. Woups, the download of them requires a big license: we had been happily using Tomcat 3.1 which was doing a clean job until I read it: you may deliver the software (servlet 2.1 class-files) with your product as long as the release date of your product is no later than 180 days than the release of the software covered by this license. (quoting non-verbatim) That is (we're way later than six months from the latest release of servlet 2.1), we could not distribute the product with our beloved Tomcat 3.1 and had to upgrade. This came as a surprise ! I then scratched more to download jaxp 1.1 (the 1.2 being still in early access) and... nowhere to be found ! Fortunately someone of us had a complete download with a license... This mail would like to request that all Apache distributions, wether from Jakarta or XML group, be distributed with all the licenses of accompanying software. I feel it is important so that the download is a real pick-up-and-go. And it is especially important with Sun software (like Jaxp or servlet.jar) which have licenses which involve non-empty obligations. If it is not possible to include such licenses (e.g. because redistribution of the redistribution is not possible) it should also be clearly stated such and pointers to the download of the separate interface-class-files should be available. (I actually fear it is the case with the jaxp or servlet classes). Also, I'd prefer these classes to be packaged separately than put in the same java archive. I seem to understand, among others from the jaxp (official and inofficial) FAQ that the tendency goes along the lines of the reference implementation (crimson and xalan in this case) contains the specifications' interfaces (note, I'm not quoting verbatim). This would allow normal developers to apply decent versioning. And if this has anything in common with the current JCP debate then I would even insist: putting these licenses or pointers to downloads of them displays to the public the limitations that ASF has and allows to attract attention on the problem even more than not saying anything. Paul = = Paul Libbrecht Java developerThe ActiveMath project = = http://www.activemath.org/~paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] = = -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun to lockOpen Source out of Java.
Costin Manolache wrote: In most cases the 'public review' is used to find spelling errors ( compare most 'public draft' and 'final' versions of the specs ). This means either that the EG is indeed so good that they create the perfect specification, or that nobody care about the spec enough to actually review it, or that the public review is just somethig to give the ilusion that people are involved. So I understand your feeling the the 'public review' means close to nothing in most cases. Don't do that. In any argument it is easy to cast the opponents argument to an extreme and then handily dismember it. Doug Lea, Apple, and Caldera apparently thought the document, while flawed, was fixable in public review. This means that your point of view has good company. Apache, BEA, Compaq, IBM, and Macromedia disagree and apparently felt that the flaws were so deep that these issues should have been addressed prior to public review. Then there are the companies listed above... - Sam Ruby -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Base64 anywhere ?
Hi Jakarta group, Since a while the XML-RPC project of Apache is looking for Base64 coder/decoder. Currently one under LGPL is used but there must certainly be some class in Jakarta project that has such a class. Does anyone know this ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun to lock Open Source out of Java.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I like the title. :-) http://jakarta.apache.org/site/news.html#0313.1 I like it... somehow I think this reminds me of Charleton Heston saying Wer'e mad as hell, and we're not going to take it any more! :) - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Linux is both Open Source and Free Software, Java is neither! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kQLOAwM6xb2dfE0RAiTgAKC50F30s3YoGqhX3nb4svCtagcmUwCfdac+ XEM8uh5xA0qmMSyprGNCTOs= =sJET -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: License issue (the come back)
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Steve Downey wrote: You chose a definition that suits your argument. In the industry, the definition is usually more like: I just used google. That which is established by authority as a rule for the measure of quantity, extent, value, or quality; esp., the original specimen weight or measure sanctioned by government, as the standard pound, gallon, or yard. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, C 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. But you need to look up 'authoritiy' first. Your definition is wrong from start: it's Kg, Meter, Celsius degree ! That's the _standard_, sanctioned by international organizations and most governments :-) Apache httpd isn't a standard in that sense. It implements a standard, the HTTP standard, RFC2616, and others. Log4J isn't a standard, it's a product. Again, that depends on the definition of the standard and the definition of authority. What's the standard for networks - OSI or TCP/IP ? By your definition, OSI ( since ISO is a government sanctioned organization - at least at that time IETF wasn't a big authority in comparation ). There are few doznes organizations that self-claim the 'authority' to create standards, and except for ISO and probably ECMA(?) I don't think too many are governement backed. The authority of W3C or IETF comes from the wide acceptance of ( some of ) their specifications. In this sense, JCP has the same authority with for example Microsoft standards. It's in wide use, but it isn't even universally used within Jakarta. Commons-logging is closer to a standard than Log4J. [Note, I use log4j in my applications. It *is* the standard that has been set within my company. That provides for interop between components that we develop.] Exaclty my point. Each company and project can decide what authority they recognize and the quality of the various (alternative) specifications. And it's perfectly reasonable to expect many organizations to not recognize non-open specifications as standards, regardless of the authority that propose it ( be it MSFT or JCP ). ( by non-open I mean specs with licences that prevent clean room implementation, of course that would also require a dictionary search ) Tomcat, on the other hand, is a standard. As a Reference Implementation of the Servlet and JSP specifications, it is authoritative when the I don't think tomcat is a standard, but parts of it may become, if other servers adopt it ( like webapps/ directory ). I think Ant is a standard - at least by my definition - even if it doesn't claim that. Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: snip/ Did they decive us ? May be ? May be it's really time to see if the next standards (for oss) should came from jcp, or from more open groups ? Hm... a Java Open Source Process (JOSP) It is very interesting. The Open Source process hasn't really worked in the past to build standards. I think they have done a good job at building standard implementations but not the standard themselves. The big companies (Microsoft, IBM, SUN, etc) have been the ones creating the standards. IETF, JCP, W3C, etc are all good examples. It would be interesting to see if the Open Source process could work for *creating* standards. At the very minimum it woul be interesting... I was just thinking about log4j case, which is an excellent piece of code but wasn't use in latest jdk. ... : But you know what ? People use log4j because it came from Apache and is synonim of quality. Yes... and it is portable. SUN really is brain damaged when it comes to their philosophy of shoving everything the JDK. JDK 1.7 will probably be around 100M or so :) So who should decide of next standards and apis for oss ? w3c, ASF, exolab, enhydra but certainly no more jcp. snip/ Well.. not unless they change. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the end of days. - from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kQR9AwM6xb2dfE0RAslbAJ4/bRJHQYRoYp2sgDLEt9laL+SHhQCgvuRo sMaFF4DEGbOrZtlimxvXlLw= =ABlZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Pier Fumagalli [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: GOMEZ Henri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So who should decide of next standards and apis for oss ? w3c, Good candidate... Too bad that they don't own the word JAVA. ASF, We don't do API, we do products FWIW... This major shift should be a thing to be seriously considered by the members I am not sure it should happen within the ASF (but maybe I am wrong). For example the ASF wouldn't start developing hardware... it would be a huge leap. I think developing standards would be a similar leap... am I wrong? exolab, After a long association with them I hope... NOT! I was going to say the same thing ;) snip/ Why not? That's all the Foundation is fighting for ATM... Complaining about things like that will not change the world in which we are living in... What the Foundation is doing is _right_, and thanks to the invaluable contributions of people such as Jason Hunter, James Duncan Davidson, Sam Ruby, Chuck Murcho we can say that we're slowly getting there... Complaining on a mailing list doesn't help, maybe suggesting being propositive and active on another might... It is easy to get frustrated... especially when dealing with these HUGE organizations. Kind of like moving a mountain. ... I do think activism is important. Keep up the good work guys! Lets keep the pressure on! :) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Don't try to be a great man, just be a man. Let history make its judgements. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kQVgAwM6xb2dfE0RAnIYAJ9QhPVkeMr2vS0YttAvp45xsVmTbQCgvB98 WW12LfLLcx28d483hyOJf94= =Y4gN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base64 anywhere ?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Libbrecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Jakarta group, Since a while the XML-RPC project of Apache is looking for Base64 coder/decoder. Currently one under LGPL is used but there must certainly be some class in Jakarta project that has such a class. snip/ There is also one in Batik, JXTA, Catalina, Apache SOAP, Apache Xerces, Axis, Commons, Talon and Freenet. And yes... it is good having a high performance Javadoc index :) http://relativity.yi.org/jde-docindex/ (self plug) Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ The dawn is rising on a new day! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kSyBAwM6xb2dfE0RAqkCAJ9lRbpwkWWAfVFnUUO/H6HkYHwr7wCgkeoa u/W7ksoYpo0Ej4wGHvv49s8= =DP62 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Base64 anywhere ?
There is also one in Batik, JXTA, Catalina, Apache SOAP, Apache Xerces, Axis, Commons, Talon and Freenet. Also Slide, Commons-HttpClient, etc. Moreover many of them have some direct cut-and-paste relationship. For what it's worth, the commons-codec package (http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-commons-sandbox/codec/) is intended avoid having so many flavors or having to grab a Base64 implementation from an otherwise unrelated framework or application.
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock Open Source out of Java.
On Fri, 15 Mar 2002 07:17, Kevin A. Burton wrote: I am not sure it should happen within the ASF (but maybe I am wrong). For example the ASF wouldn't start developing hardware... it would be a huge leap. I think developing standards would be a similar leap... am I wrong? Hell no. Look at all the pety bitching and moaning that goes on now - definetly not conducive to standards bodys which are meant to define specifications via which multiple groups can compete on implementations. -- Cheers, Pete - I think not; therefore I ain't... - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base64 anywhere ?
Thanks, thanks, thanks, That's a flood ! Paul On Vendredi, mars 15, 2002, at 12:17 , Waldhoff, Rodney wrote: There is also one in Batik, JXTA, Catalina, Apache SOAP, Apache Xerces, Axis, Commons, Talon and Freenet. Also Slide, Commons-HttpClient, etc. Moreover many of them have some direct cut-and-paste relationship. For what it's worth, the commons-codec package (http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-commons-sandbox/codec/) is intended avoid having so many flavors or having to grab a Base64 implementation from an otherwise unrelated framework or application. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base64 anywhere ?
On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Paul Libbrecht wrote: Since a while the XML-RPC project of Apache is looking for Base64 coder/decoder. Currently one under LGPL is used but there must certainly be some class in Jakarta project that has such a class. Does anyone know this ? There's one in the commons sandbox: http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/jakarta-commons-sandbox/codec/src/java/org/apache/commons/codec/base64/ regards, michael -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can we get a pretty page with a Do this if you care WAS Re:Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock OpenSource out of Java.
Hi All, I'd like to continue to help on this so far I guess I got this as the top story on www.javalobby.org (my local hometown java site). Several people pointed out I didn't really give them a what to do about it. Can someone qualified create a page that I can point folks to to read the facts and where to write their comments to? Is there a mail list instead of this [EMAIL PROTECTED]? Thanks, Andy -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
LICENSE in .jar files
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jus thinking out loud. Would it be a good protocol to put a LICENSE file in .jar files under META-INF ? Specifically with the JCP stuff and some JAR files that come from SUN and can't be redistributed. Thanks. Comments appreciated. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965 Jabber - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Web - http://relativity.yi.org/ Intellectual 'property' is to property as fool's gold is to gold. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt iD8DBQE8kVfdAwM6xb2dfE0RAkcTAJ4xq6iKaeOvkHSM50qn2lf8+gqbtACeNE/R ez/sHMZsOJAji0LEemjJuCo= =/aRp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we get a pretty page with a Do this if you care WAS Re:Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock OpenSource out of Java.
on 3/14/02 6:06 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to continue to help on this so far I guess I got this as the top story on www.javalobby.org (my local hometown java site). The overwhelming number of clueless idiot troll postings on that site is depressing and makes me almost wonder why we bother helping these people out at all. -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LICENSE in .jar files
on 3/14/02 6:09 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be a good protocol to put a LICENSE file in .jar files under META-INF ? Sure. *poof* it is now done in all of the Jakarta projects. Don't you like magic like that? -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun to lock Open Source out of Java.
Kevin == Kevin A Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin I like it... somehow I think this reminds me of Charleton Kevin Heston saying Wer'e mad as hell, and we're not going to take Kevin it any more! s/Charleton Heston/Peter Finch he won (I think) a best actor Oscar for that role. -- joe -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Base64 anywhere ?
org.apache.xerces.utils.Base64 has base64 encoding and decoding From: Paul Libbrecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Base64 anywhere ? Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 23:40:14 +0100 Hi Jakarta group, Since a while the XML-RPC project of Apache is looking for Base64 coder/decoder. Currently one under LGPL is used but there must certainly be some class in Jakarta project that has such a class. Does anyone know this ? Thanks in advance. Paul -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LICENSE in .jar files
On 3/14/02 9:17 PM, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/14/02 6:09 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be a good protocol to put a LICENSE file in .jar files under META-INF ? Sure. *poof* it is now done in all of the Jakarta projects. Don't you like magic like that? Wouldn't it be great if there was a BMW 530 in my garage when I wake up tomorrow? (your cue, Jon... Blond/toledo, sport, cold, split seats, xenon) -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we get a pretty page with a Do this if you care WAS Re:Borland, Fujitsu, HP, IONA, Nokia, and Oracle voted with Sun tolock OpenSource out of Java.
On Thu, 2002-03-14 at 21:16, Jon Scott Stevens wrote: on 3/14/02 6:06 PM, Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to continue to help on this so far I guess I got this as the top story on www.javalobby.org (my local hometown java site). The overwhelming number of clueless idiot troll postings on that site is depressing and makes me almost wonder why we bother helping these people out at all True, especially in response to this, but if you dig you'll find a few golden nuggets of people who actually have brains. Its to their questions I'd like to respond. The fact of the matter the bulk of the people who call themselves software developers are actually just morons with really big egos. So on any site that allows public comment...well the quality of that comment will simply reflect this fact. :-) This site is though an important part of the Java community. And some really smart people read it, in part because the articles are moderated. Furthermore, it reaches a mass of folks who can write in if given direction. Next, Rick Ross is a super nice guy. -Andy -Andy . -jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: LICENSE in .jar files
On Thu, 2002-03-14 at 22:16, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote: On 3/14/02 9:17 PM, Jon Scott Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/14/02 6:09 PM, Kevin A. Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Would it be a good protocol to put a LICENSE file in .jar files under META-INF ? Sure. *poof* it is now done in all of the Jakarta projects. Don't you like magic like that? Wouldn't it be great if there was a BMW 530 in my garage when I wake up tomorrow? oooh mee too mee tooo!!! Thanks Papa Jon! (your cue, Jon... Blond/toledo, sport, cold, split seats, xenon) -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting Be a giant. Take giant steps. Do giant things... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.superlinksoftware.com http://jakarta.apache.org/poi - port of Excel/Word/OLE 2 Compound Document format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: PMC Chair elelection
Pete, From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2002 7:56 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: PMC Chair elelection +1 to Sam being chair regardless of whether he wants to or not ;) Nothing but good has come out of it so far so why mess with a good thing? Pete, True. The idea was to give any other folks who wanted to give it a shot, the opportunity to put themselves forward. It seems clear that if Sam is agreeable, he would be the only candidate, though I must acknowledge Geir, who indicated his willingness, even while supporting Sam. So Sam, if you are willing, a simple set of +1 votes from the PMC should be sufficient. Let me add mine to those already expressed. +1 Conor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
