Re: Naming issues
On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 12:05:36PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: The reality is that this *will* create tensions and flamewars. Like we're seeing on reorg. Then you've seen nothing yet ;-) Wait, you think that's normal? -aaron -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
Aaron Bannert wrote: On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 12:05:36PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: The reality is that this *will* create tensions and flamewars. Like we're seeing on reorg@. Then you've seen nothing yet ;-) Wait, you think that's normal? Unfortunately it's way too common :-( I don't think it's normal, and this is one of the reasons I *definately* prefer to discuss things on XML rather than Jakarta because of this. :-/ I have been bit quite a lot of times with these things, and this is the reason I try to avoid them. But I will certainly follow you if you and others decide to stand up against these tensions, but ATM I'm not (yet) capable of making them settle while remaining a minority. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
Henri Yandell wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therefor I still think Jakarta Commons should fix their naming scheme. But that will have to be brought up there, not here. It's completely impractical, and will hurt Jakarta immensely. Oh, well, now that I think of it, this is only for projects that have already been released... Other opinions? Has everyone forgotten that it's not just commons that uses org.apache.projectName as their java package name within Jakarta. Ant is org.apache.tools.ant Turbine is org.apache.turbine Velocity is org.apache.velocity Struts is org.apache.struts etc. Sure, and Turbine will get a turbine.apache.org site, Ant an ant.apache.org site... but Commons? Bear in mind this is not just a website change. It breaks backwards compatibility of all jakarta projects [at least ones people code against] and will be confusing to users. Exactly what I said ;-) Citing myself: It's completely impractical, and will hurt Jakarta immensely. I wanted to highlight how following the other projects in the migration would effectively look like all code from Jakarta Commons should go into Apache Commons... hinting that instead of changing packagenames we could change project. A provocation, but still a possibility. Why not just decide to move the Jakarta Commons projects to Commons and the Sandbox ones to Incubator? Some of the Sandbox ones are blatant Commons projects which just aren't ready yet. I know that this is probably acceptable to the Incubator concept but wanted to make sure. Yes, in fact I'm ready to move to incubator the code of Morphos, which has some interested developers, two semi-active developers and no community yet. Equally, when does something go from Incubator to Commons? In Jakarta it seems to be on release of a 1.0. Do things have to stay in Incubator until they have a 1.0 release? When the community is deemed to be ready, that is when it works well following the Apache Project Guidelines, both in facts and spirit. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Michael A. Smith wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Why not just decide to move the Jakarta Commons projects to Commons and the Sandbox ones to Incubator? This is not a proposal for a diktat, but a *suggestion* for Jakarta Commons projects to take part of the Commons and Incubator Project creation. [EMAIL PROTECTED] As far as jakarta-commons goes (ignoring the sandbox/incubator), I sent a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking whether this is something we, as committers on jakarta-commons, wanted to consider, and so far the only real reaction was major uncertainty due to the lack of defined structure/procedures in @commons.apache. hrrmmm... when'd this thread move from reorg@apache to general@jakarta? strange. Yeah, it tricked me too :) Moving Jakarta Commons stuff to Apache Commons stuff scares me if the people in charge of Apache Commons don't seem to 'get' Java. I suspect they're all reasonable people, but it's too easy to think of scary demands that might be made. Such as all Jakarta Commons must change dpackage names. This is gonna be a very bad experience for users. [Okay, I'm sounding like a scratch record. [What scares me is that I couldn't remember that phrase and was thinking 'for loop'] ]. Hen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therefor I still think Jakarta Commons should fix their naming scheme. But that will have to be brought up there, not here. It's completely impractical, and will hurt Jakarta immensely. Oh, well, now that I think of it, this is only for projects that have already been released... Other opinions? Has everyone forgotten that it's not just commons that uses org.apache.projectName as their java package name within Jakarta. Ant is org.apache.tools.ant Turbine is org.apache.turbine Velocity is org.apache.velocity Struts is org.apache.struts etc. Sure, and Turbine will get a turbine.apache.org site, Ant an ant.apache.org site... but Commons? Why not just decide to move the Jakarta Commons projects to Commons and the Sandbox ones to Incubator? This is not a proposal for a diktat, but a *suggestion* for Jakarta Commons projects to take part of the Commons and Incubator Project creation. [EMAIL PROTECTED] For the incubator the mailing list is not yet ready, will be soon. :-) I don't see a realistic proposal being made that renames all of the Jakarta Project source code. Why do you think I posted this message here? *gr* -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Therefor I still think Jakarta Commons should fix their naming scheme. But that will have to be brought up there, not here. It's completely impractical, and will hurt Jakarta immensely. Oh, well, now that I think of it, this is only for projects that have already been released... Other opinions? Has everyone forgotten that it's not just commons that uses org.apache.projectName as their java package name within Jakarta. Ant is org.apache.tools.ant Turbine is org.apache.turbine Velocity is org.apache.velocity Struts is org.apache.struts etc. Sure, and Turbine will get a turbine.apache.org site, Ant an ant.apache.org site... but Commons? Bear in mind this is not just a website change. It breaks backwards compatibility of all jakarta projects [at least ones people code against] and will be confusing to users. Why not just decide to move the Jakarta Commons projects to Commons and the Sandbox ones to Incubator? Some of the Sandbox ones are blatant Commons projects which just aren't ready yet. I know that this is probably acceptable to the Incubator concept but wanted to make sure. Equally, when does something go from Incubator to Commons? In Jakarta it seems to be on release of a 1.0. Do things have to stay in Incubator until they have a 1.0 release? Hen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
Sander Striker wrote: From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken;apache.org] Sent: 21 October 2002 10:54 [...] I agree that what you say is the most sensible and correct way... The reality is that this *will* create tensions and flamewars. Like we're seeing on reorg@. Then you've seen nothing yet ;-) Defining a different namespace will just make things easier, by avoiding stupid discussions like the one that is happening now, because there *are* people that just want to break balls as we say. *nod* IMHO using org.apache.common.* is a possible solution. Also, when I say common_s_ I kept making errors in declarations because I expected common since it's a common namespace, not a commons namespace. Well, I find 'common' not too far off to object to it. We just have to make sure that it is well explained* what the Common PMC is about, since I can already see the confusion in such a name... ;-) It does feel like jumping through hoops though to fix earlier mistakes. Feels? ;-) It *is* hehehe Therefor I still think Jakarta Commons should fix their naming scheme. But that will have to be brought up there, not here. It's completely impractical, and will hurt Jakarta immensely. Oh, well, now that I think of it, this is only for projects that have already been released... Other opinions? -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
Therefor I still think Jakarta Commons should fix their naming scheme. But that will have to be brought up there, not here. It's completely impractical, and will hurt Jakarta immensely. Oh, well, now that I think of it, this is only for projects that have already been released... Other opinions? Has everyone forgotten that it's not just commons that uses org.apache.projectName as their java package name within Jakarta. Ant is org.apache.tools.ant Turbine is org.apache.turbine Velocity is org.apache.velocity Struts is org.apache.struts etc. I don't see a realistic proposal being made that renames all of the Jakarta Project source code. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
Re: Naming issues
Michael A. Smith wrote: On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: Why not just decide to move the Jakarta Commons projects to Commons and the Sandbox ones to Incubator? This is not a proposal for a diktat, but a *suggestion* for Jakarta Commons projects to take part of the Commons and Incubator Project creation. [EMAIL PROTECTED] As far as jakarta-commons goes (ignoring the sandbox/incubator), I sent a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking whether this is something we, as committers on jakarta-commons, wanted to consider, and so far the only real reaction was major uncertainty due to the lack of defined structure/procedures in @commons.apache. Yeah, that's why I posted it here! Come on guys, come over to [EMAIL PROTECTED], let's make ourselves heard, help create the rules there, so finally Commons can have it's top-level project! It's not something that has to be imposed, we can help over there! [EMAIL PROTECTED] hrrmmm... when'd this thread move from reorg@apache to general@jakarta? strange. hehehe, when I cross-posted ;-) Oh, and now I'm at it, here it goes, welcome to the discussion commons-dev! :-D -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:general-unsubscribe;jakarta.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:general-help;jakarta.apache.org
