RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Scott Sanders]

Come over and vote on it now.  It has been proposed and has about 7 +1s
so far...

Scott

-Original Message-
From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 6:14 AM
To: Jakarta General List
Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10,
20, 30
> > ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be
generous
> > and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely.
>
> And we are looking at changing that we recognize that is starting to
become
> a hurdle.  Things change.  Things evolve.  We learn.

kool.

> > Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights
on
> > everything - even code they have never contributed and never will -
> > sounds like a great "meritocracy" - right? M, just the sort of
thing
> > we are meant to be promoting.
>
> I also agree - I am uncomfortable with that, and have been from day
one. 
> To be fair though, it hasn't resulted in any huge problems yet.

It never does until the first problem - when this changes and this
evolves 
you will have another active developer. Wanna propose a vote on commons?
Technically I believe am a committer and could even +1 it :)

-- 
Cheers,

Pete

Frank Zappa observed: "It's not getting any smarter out
   there.You have to come to terms with
   stupidity, and make it work for you."

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

+1 

There is now a "Subproject Alternatives" section citing Taglibs, Avalon,
Commons, Turbine, XML, et al.

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject2.html

Peter Donald wrote:
> Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects.

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 01:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> > Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30
> > ? Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous
> > and say about 12 votes! That seems real likely.
>
> And we are looking at changing that we recognize that is starting to become
> a hurdle.  Things change.  Things evolve.  We learn.

kool.

> > Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on
> > everything - even code they have never contributed and never will -
> > sounds like a great "meritocracy" - right? M, just the sort of thing
> > we are meant to be promoting.
>
> I also agree - I am uncomfortable with that, and have been from day one. 
> To be fair though, it hasn't resulted in any huge problems yet.

It never does until the first problem - when this changes and this evolves 
you will have another active developer. Wanna propose a vote on commons? 
Technically I believe am a committer and could even +1 it :)

-- 
Cheers,

Pete

Frank Zappa observed: "It's not getting any smarter out
   there.You have to come to terms with
   stupidity, and make it work for you."

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

For the archive - this was peter responding to Sam.

On 1/13/02 8:45 AM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Have I ever blocked anybody moving anything to commons?
> 
> Yes I would love to particpate in commons but I probably wont because I
> consider the management process of it broken.
> 
> Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ?
> Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say
> about 12 votes! That seems real likely.

And we are looking at changing that we recognize that is starting to become
a hurdle.  Things change.  Things evolve.  We learn.

> 
> Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on
> everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds
> like a great "meritocracy" - right? M, just the sort of thing we are
> meant to be promoting.

I also agree - I am uncomfortable with that, and have been from day one.  To
be fair though, it hasn't resulted in any huge problems yet.

I do think that having all the commons committers be involved with things
like deciding what can be a commons component is a good thing and should be
preserved (with the modification of the 3/4ths rule - the idea should be
they *can* participate - not must...).  Having all in every issue doesn't
seem to scale.
 
> So yes theres buckets of stuff in ant, in excalibur and at home that I would
> love to move to commons but that aint going to happen till its fixed or if
> ever.
> 
> Considering you seem to be accusing me of blocking progress in commons I want
> you to explain it in real simple terms how I am doing it? I seem to be a bit
> think and can't quite figure it out.

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"He who throws mud only loses ground." - Fat Albert


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

For the time being, I've removed the sentence about the Commons from the
working draft. 

Though, since both Jakarta and Commons have procedures for accepting new
products, it would seem polite to steer anyone interested in donating a
codebase to Jakarta to both places. After all, many proposals have been
met by the response, "Why not propose this to the Commons or try it in
the sandbox." 

If another subproject were to publish guidelines for proposing a new
product, as the Commons does, then I agree we should cite that
subproject here too. 

It's also important to note that the "advertisement" was originally put
in by Jon Stevens, not any of the Commons committers. 

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/


Peter Donald wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:18, Sam Ruby wrote:
> > Peter Donald wrote:
> > > Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I
> >
> > would
> >
> > > suggest you remove the commons advertising
> >
> > Why?  Should the reference to Turbine be removed from
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/source.html ?
> >
> > Do you have a proposed patch?  Something you would like to add?
> 
> Um ... here is the section I am talking about
> 
> "Jakarta can host a product within a top-level subproject, or as a component
> in the Jakarta Commons. This document covers what is expected of a proposal
> for a top-level Jakarta subproject. The Jakarta Commons has a similar but
> different procedure for accepting new products. See the Jakarta Commons site
> for details."
> 
> Is this something you think is needed and should be in the jakarta guidelines?
> 
> > Guys, I can understand why some of you may not want to participate in other
> > activities, but this is no excuse for attempting to block the progress of
> > others.
> 
> hmm - exactly how am I blocking the progress of commons?
> 
> I have wanted to do something very similar to commons for ages - hell way
> before JDD even proposed AUT which was way before commons was proposed. And
> if you recall I was somewhat active in early library-dev discussions, no? Do
> you disagree with anything here?
> 
> Have I ever blocked anybody moving anything to commons?
> 
> Yes I would love to particpate in commons but I probably wont because I
> consider the management process of it broken.
> 
> Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ?
> Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say
> about 12 votes! That seems real likely.
> 
> Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on
> everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds
> like a great "meritocracy" - right? M, just the sort of thing we are
> meant to be promoting.
> 
> So yes theres buckets of stuff in ant, in excalibur and at home that I would
> love to move to commons but that aint going to happen till its fixed or if
> ever.
> 
> Considering you seem to be accusing me of blocking progress in commons I want
> you to explain it in real simple terms how I am doing it? I seem to be a bit
> think and can't quite figure it out.
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete
> 
> "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the
> freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin
> 
> --
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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:18, Sam Ruby wrote:
> Peter Donald wrote:
> > Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I
>
> would
>
> > suggest you remove the commons advertising
>
> Why?  Should the reference to Turbine be removed from
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/source.html ?
>
> Do you have a proposed patch?  Something you would like to add?

Um ... here is the section I am talking about 

"Jakarta can host a product within a top-level subproject, or as a component 
in the Jakarta Commons. This document covers what is expected of a proposal 
for a top-level Jakarta subproject. The Jakarta Commons has a similar but 
different procedure for accepting new products. See the Jakarta Commons site 
for details."

Is this something you think is needed and should be in the jakarta guidelines?

> Guys, I can understand why some of you may not want to participate in other
> activities, but this is no excuse for attempting to block the progress of
> others.

hmm - exactly how am I blocking the progress of commons? 

I have wanted to do something very similar to commons for ages - hell way 
before JDD even proposed AUT which was way before commons was proposed. And 
if you recall I was somewhat active in early library-dev discussions, no? Do 
you disagree with anything here?

Have I ever blocked anybody moving anything to commons?

Yes I would love to particpate in commons but I probably wont because I 
consider the management process of it broken. 

Consider this - how many committers are there in commons atm - 10, 20, 30 ? 
Now to get a new project moved you need a 3/4 vote - lets be generous and say 
about 12 votes! That seems real likely.

Then you have the joy that every commons committer has voting rights on 
everything - even code they have never contributed and never will - sounds 
like a great "meritocracy" - right? M, just the sort of thing we are 
meant to be promoting.

So yes theres buckets of stuff in ant, in excalibur and at home that I would 
love to move to commons but that aint going to happen till its fixed or if 
ever.

Considering you seem to be accusing me of blocking progress in commons I want 
you to explain it in real simple terms how I am doing it? I seem to be a bit 
think and can't quite figure it out.

-- 
Cheers,

Pete

"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the
freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Sam Ruby]

Peter Donald wrote:
>
> Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I
would
> suggest you remove the commons advertising

Why?  Should the reference to Turbine be removed from
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/source.html ?

Do you have a proposed patch?  Something you would like to add?

Guys, I can understand why some of you may not want to participate in other
activities, but this is no excuse for attempting to block the progress of
others.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 09:54, Ted Husted wrote:
> There's a proposed redraft of the Subproject Proposals page at
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject2.html
>
> It's mainly a refactoring, adding subheadings, and so forth, and relies
> on the content of the original page
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
>
> which is linked from the "Guidelines Notes" section.

Unless you plan on adding similar comments for a few other projects I would 
suggest you remove the commons advertising

-- 
Cheers,

Pete

-
I think not; therefore I ain't...
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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

Hi Ted,
kool work.

The only thing I don't like so far is the
heading "Warning signs". I would rename it into
"Rejecting Reasons" or "Not wanted" or something
else. The PMC is very strict in that way and therefore
the heading should be more, well, brutal ;-).

Hmm and maybe we can rename "Criteria" in "Quality
Reasons" because this "Criterias" are the reason
why Apache project from that quality.

Just my to 0,02 EURO Cent

Cheers
  Gerhard

 
"When I die, I want to go just like my Grandfather,
in my sleep.
Not like the screaming passengers in the car
he was driving."
(Ancient Chinese Proverb)


>-Original Message-
>From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2002 11:55 PM
>To: Jakarta General List
>Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
>
>
>SHORT TERM PLAN 
>
>There's a proposed redraft of the Subproject Proposals page at 
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject2.html
>
>It's mainly a refactoring, adding subheadings, and so forth, and relies
>on the content of the original page 
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
>
>which is linked from the "Guidelines Notes" section.
>
>-Ted.
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>
>


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

SHORT TERM PLAN 

There's a proposed redraft of the Subproject Proposals page at 

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject2.html

It's mainly a refactoring, adding subheadings, and so forth, and relies
on the content of the original page 

http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html

which is linked from the "Guidelines Notes" section.

-Ted.

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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

>From: Gerhard Froehlich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>
>Hi,
>
>>From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>>
>>
>>On 1/11/02 7:14 AM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> SHORT TERM PLAN
>>> 
>>> I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta
>>> subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this:
>>
>>Why limit just to XML-land (we have friends in many places), and what's the
>>long term plan?
>
>Putting that all to the jakarta side screams for a re-design! Because in the
>current it would be too much I guess.
>
>How about a little table on the left with a

on the _right_ of course. need a coffee!

  gerhard


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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

Hi,

>From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>
>On 1/11/02 7:14 AM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> SHORT TERM PLAN
>> 
>> I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta
>> subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this:
>
>Why limit just to XML-land (we have friends in many places), and what's the
>long term plan?

Putting that all to the jakarta side screams for a re-design! Because in the
current it would be too much I guess.

How about a little table on the left with a


navi pagerelated links
avalon  - xml
 - sourceforge


  gerhard



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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/11/02 7:14 AM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> SHORT TERM PLAN
> 
> I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta
> subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this:

Why limit just to XML-land (we have friends in many places), and what's the
long term plan?


> 
> ==
> 
> Apache XML Project
> 
> Many people who visit Jakarta also find the products of the Apache XML
> Project
> to be of interest. Products hosted at Apache XML include:
> 
> AXIS - An implementation of the SOAP ("Simple Object Access
> Protocol") submission to W3C.
> Batik - A Java based toolkit for Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG).
> Cocoon - XML-based web publishing, in Java.
> Crimson - A Java XML parser derived from the Sun Project XParser.
> FOP - XSL formatting objects, in Java.
> SOAP - Simple Object Access Protocol.
> Xalan - XSLT stylesheet processors, in Java and C++.
> Xang - Rapid development of dynamic server pages, in JavaScript.
> Xerces - XML parsers in Java, C++ (with Perl and COMbindings).
> Xindice - A native XML database.
> XML-RPC - A Java implementation of XML-RPC, a popular protocol
> that uses XML over HTTP to implement remote procedure calls.
> XML Security - Create and verify arbitrary forms of XML Signatures.
> 
> For more about any of these products, visit the Apache XML Project.
> 
> ==
> 
> I'd leave out links to the individual XML subprojects, so that vistors
> would go to the XML start page first, and proceed from there.
> 
> Shane (our XML lurker) -- Does that seem OK to you?
> 
> 
> -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
> -- Building Java web applications with Struts.
> -- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
> -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> 

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin



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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

SHORT TERM PLAN

I was thinking of adding a section to the start page, after the Jakarta
subproject index, to mention our friends at XML. Something like this:

==

Apache XML Project 

Many people who visit Jakarta also find the products of the Apache XML
Project
to be of interest. Products hosted at Apache XML include: 

 AXIS - An implementation of the SOAP ("Simple Object Access
 Protocol") submission to W3C. 
 Batik - A Java based toolkit for Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG). 
 Cocoon - XML-based web publishing, in Java. 
 Crimson - A Java XML parser derived from the Sun Project XParser. 
 FOP - XSL formatting objects, in Java. 
 SOAP - Simple Object Access Protocol. 
 Xalan - XSLT stylesheet processors, in Java and C++. 
 Xang - Rapid development of dynamic server pages, in JavaScript. 
 Xerces - XML parsers in Java, C++ (with Perl and COMbindings). 
 Xindice - A native XML database. 
 XML-RPC - A Java implementation of XML-RPC, a popular protocol
 that uses XML over HTTP to implement remote procedure calls. 
 XML Security - Create and verify arbitrary forms of XML Signatures. 

For more about any of these products, visit the Apache XML Project. 

==

I'd leave out links to the individual XML subprojects, so that vistors
would go to the XML start page first, and proceed from there. 

Shane (our XML lurker) -- Does that seem OK to you?


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Tue, 8 Jan 2002 15:29, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> I also will say I haven't seen community crosstalk between XML and Jakarta,
> from the point of view as communities.  I know there are individuals who
> contribute greatly to both communities, and many of us here in Jakarta
> depend on XML projects.  But in the sense of us really having discussion of
> cross-community issues, the only one I can recall seeing is Stefano's
> request to disband PMCs because of his  issues with XML's.

You would be surprised. The majority of avalon developers are from XML land 
for one. Other projects have more or less communication - but thats not 
really different from inter-jakarta projects.

-- 
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Pete

*--*
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has been hurt so many times that the scar tissue is thick 
enough so he no longer feels the pain. 
   -- Alan Cooper, The Inmates are Running the Asylum 
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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/7/02 12:53 AM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:39, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
> 
> different technologies (ie c vs java).
 
 So what?  You didn't think that mattered before.
>>> 
>>> what are you talking about ? When have I said merging incompatible
>>> communities never mattered ?
>> 
>> Good try.  You said that the technologies don't matter (you even say it
>> above :)
> 
> Sigh .. I need some of those Cheshire cat skills.
> 
> The point I was trying to get across was this. I assumed you were being
> facetious ? no?

In some ways, no - I think it was stefano that said something to the order
of removing all artificial containers surrounding projects or groups of
projects.

I think that if we looked at that, we might discover that governance of
something like that would be challenging (governance could be entirely
self-governance : no implications of any sort intended...)

> 
> I don't really care that tomcat has a native connector and daemon
> architecture, nor do I care whether xerces has a c version. Why ? Because
> they are the same community. Presumably you don't think Pier is not part of
> the tomcat project - yet he did write a c daemon architecture (and some of
> the connectors?) - does that mean his work should not be part of jakarta ?

No - this paragraph above reaches back to my unanswered questions about the
real meaning of the charter, of which a clarification was suggested which
you agreed to (removing "server"), but then I noted we would still be out of
scope (beaause of "java").

I don't care about the tech either - I mean, much of Gump is XSL, right?

I was being a bit facetious earlier on the Alexandria list - note that The
Law specifies that all code be documented according to javadoc coding
conventions.  If Sam wishes to remain in compliance with the law, his XSL
Gump code needs to be documented that way (which I don't believe possible).

My point is that the constant appeal to codified law sometimes misses the
spirit of the law, and allows it to be used as a club, which I don't like. I
admit it is my personality to err on the side of 'chaos' away from the law,
but still.

> The PHP/Perl/TCL/Httpd people on average have little involvement in the java
> development scene is my guess - I certainly haven't seen any huge crosstalk
> between them and jakarta - have you ?

Never.

I also will say I haven't seen community crosstalk between XML and Jakarta,
from the point of view as communities.  I know there are individuals who
contribute greatly to both communities, and many of us here in Jakarta
depend on XML projects.  But in the sense of us really having discussion of
cross-community issues, the only one I can recall seeing is Stefano's
request to disband PMCs because of his  issues with XML's.

  
> Because they work on different technologies there is unlikely to emerge any
> great collaborative works between developers as often developers specialize
> in development approach (ie java).
> 
> Technologies don't matter - communitys do.

I agree - I think my statement was "Charter doesn't matter - the community
does"...

>It would be pointless to merge
> disconnected communities when there is no community incentive to do so. The
> community is unlikely to form between groups of developers who work on
> different technologies if there is little common ground.  xerces c developers
> presumably have common ground with their java counterparts, Pier presumably
> has common ground with the other tomcat developers.

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin



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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002, Peter Donald wrote:

> Watchdog is TC specific - didn't know that ? Is it servlet/jsp specific or
> tomcat specific? Could it be reimplemented over the top of Cactus or is it
> tied to a specific infrastructure?
>

Watchdog is not Tomcat-specific - the validity tests should work on any
container that implements the appropriate servlet and JSP specifications.
It's based on the same tests that are in the J2EE compliance test suite
(CTS).

Craig


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:39, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>  Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
> >>>
> >>> different technologies (ie c vs java).
> >>
> >> So what?  You didn't think that mattered before.
> >
> > what are you talking about ? When have I said merging incompatible
> > communities never mattered ?
>
> Good try.  You said that the technologies don't matter (you even say it
> above :)

Sigh .. I need some of those Cheshire cat skills. 

The point I was trying to get across was this. I assumed you were being 
facetious ? no?

I don't really care that tomcat has a native connector and daemon 
architecture, nor do I care whether xerces has a c version. Why ? Because 
they are the same community. Presumably you don't think Pier is not part of 
the tomcat project - yet he did write a c daemon architecture (and some of 
the connectors?) - does that mean his work should not be part of jakarta ?

The PHP/Perl/TCL/Httpd people on average have little involvement in the java 
development scene is my guess - I certainly haven't seen any huge crosstalk 
between them and jakarta - have you ?

Because they work on different technologies there is unlikely to emerge any 
great collaborative works between developers as often developers specialize 
in development approach (ie java).

Technologies don't matter - communitys do. It would be pointless to merge 
disconnected communities when there is no community incentive to do so. The 
community is unlikely to form between groups of developers who work on 
different technologies if there is little common ground.  xerces c developers 
presumably have common ground with their java counterparts, Pier presumably 
has common ground with the other tomcat developers.

-- 
Cheers,

Pete

--
you've made a dangerous leap right over common 
sense, like some kind of metaphysical Evil Knievel
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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/6/02 5:26 PM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> On 1/6/02 3:54 PM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
 Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
>>> 
>>> different technologies (ie c vs java).
>> 
>> So what?  You didn't think that mattered before.
> 
> what are you talking about ? When have I said merging incompatible
> communities never mattered ?

Good try.  You said that the technologies don't matter (you even say it
above :)

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin



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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:05, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> On 1/6/02 3:54 PM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> >> Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
> >
> > different technologies (ie c vs java).
>
> So what?  You didn't think that mattered before.

what are you talking about ? When have I said merging incompatible 
communities never mattered ?

-- 
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Pete

**
| The student who is never required to do what   |
|  he cannot do never does what he can do.   |
|   - John Stuart Mill   |
**

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/6/02 3:54 PM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>> Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?
> 
> different technologies (ie c vs java).

So what?  You didn't think that mattered before.

> 
>> Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the same category?
> 
> different technologies (ie c vs java)

So what?  You didn't think that mattered before.
 
>> Shouldn't APR and Commons and Avalon be in the same category?
> 
> Commons + Avalon = yes
> APR is different technology

So what?  You didn't think that mattered before.
 
>> Shouldn't TCL and Perl be in the same category?
> 
> No idea what they actually consist of but I suspect the communities are not
> compatible ;)
> 
> Apache is generally broken by technology boundaries. While sometimes there is
> overlap (ie xerces-c xerces-j) but it is mostly the case that committers
> stick to one technology  - except for some oddballs like Sam ;) - and thus
> thats where the community is.
> 
> Occasionally you will some people bridge between different technology (ie PHP
> in cocoon, connectors in TC, ...) but that is the exception rather than the
> norm.

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"He who throws mud only loses ground." - Fat Albert


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 07:27, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?

different technologies (ie c vs java). 

> Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the same category?

different technologies (ie c vs java)

> Shouldn't APR and Commons and Avalon be in the same category?

Commons + Avalon = yes
APR is different technology

> Shouldn't TCL and Perl be in the same category?

No idea what they actually consist of but I suspect the communities are not 
compatible ;)

Apache is generally broken by technology boundaries. While sometimes there is 
overlap (ie xerces-c xerces-j) but it is mostly the case that committers 
stick to one technology  - except for some oddballs like Sam ;) - and thus 
thats where the community is.

Occasionally you will some people bridge between different technology (ie PHP 
in cocoon, connectors in TC, ...) but that is the exception rather than the 
norm.

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Pete

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/6/02 2:21 PM, "Peter Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote:
>> Shouldn't...
>> 
>>Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?
>> 
>>Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
>> 
>>Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
>> 
>>Lucene and Oro be in the same category?
> 
> Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same category?
> 
> Shouldn't Avalon and Log4j be in the same category?
> 
> Shouldn't Avalon and Commons be in the same category?
> 
> Shouldn't Avalon and Tomcat be in the same category?
> 
> Shouldn't Turbine and Commons be in the same category?
> 
> Shouldn't Cactus and JMeter be in the same category?
> 
> Shouldn't Cactus and Watchdog be in the same category?
> 

Shouldn't tomcat and httpd be in the same category?

Shouldn't Cocoon and PHP be in the same category?

Shouldn't APR and Commons and Avalon be in the same category?

Shouldn't TCL and Perl be in the same category?

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
Be a giant.  Take giant steps.  Do giant things...


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/6/02 2:10 PM, "Sam Ruby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Shouldn't...
> 
>  Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?

For some users, sure.  For others, not.  Velocity's core template engine has
nothing to do with the J2EE API.  We include a single Servlet base class for
application use (not core to the engine) and a DataSource template loader
(never really gets used anyway, and also not core)...

> 
>  Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
> 
>  Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
> 
>  Lucene and Oro be in the same category?
> 
> Don't read anything more into these questions: in particular, I believe
> that these questions can be addressed without affecting the overall
> validity of the categorization scheme.
> 
> - Sam Ruby
> 
> 
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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:49, Sam Ruby wrote:
> Peter Donald wrote:
> >On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote:
> >> Shouldn't...
> >>
> >>Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?
> >>
> >>Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
> >>
> >>Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
> >>
> >>Lucene and Oro be in the same category?
> >
> > Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same category?
>
> JMeter is general purpose.  Watchdog effectively is Tomcat specific.

Watchdog is TC specific - didn't know that ? Is it servlet/jsp specific or 
tomcat specific? Could it be reimplemented over the top of Cactus or is it 
tied to a specific infrastructure?

>
> > Shouldn't Avalon and Log4j be in the same category?
> >
> > Shouldn't Avalon and Commons be in the same category?
> >
> > Shouldn't Avalon and Tomcat be in the same category?
>
> Obviously, Avalon is everything.  ;-)  But first and foremost, people tend
> to think of it as a framework.

And that happens to be the smallest part of the Avalon project ;)

> > Shouldn't Turbine and Commons be in the same category?
>
> Ditto.

I would love to see torque be given more presence then, *cough* 
top-level-project *cough* :)

> > Shouldn't Cactus and JMeter be in the same category?
>
> You got me there.  ;-)  Hint: intentional cheshire cat lurking in that
> statement.
>
> > Shouldn't Cactus and Watchdog be in the same category?
>
> Same response as the first.
>
>  = = =
>
> My two cents: these categories are not perfect, but are useful.

yep. It may be useful to break down the turbine and avalon projects into 
their constituent parts though, then again not all of those parts are out of 
alpha ;)

-- 
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Pete

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

Sam Ruby wrote:
> My two cents: these categories are not perfect, but are useful.

Not unlike the Apache Projects =:)


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Sam Ruby]

Peter Donald wrote:
>
>On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote:
>> Shouldn't...
>>
>>Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?
>>
>>Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
>>
>>Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
>>
>>Lucene and Oro be in the same category?
>
> Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same category?

JMeter is general purpose.  Watchdog effectively is Tomcat specific.

> Shouldn't Avalon and Log4j be in the same category?
>
> Shouldn't Avalon and Commons be in the same category?
>
> Shouldn't Avalon and Tomcat be in the same category?

Obviously, Avalon is everything.  ;-)  But first and foremost, people tend
to think of it as a framework.

> Shouldn't Turbine and Commons be in the same category?

Ditto.

> Shouldn't Cactus and JMeter be in the same category?

You got me there.  ;-)  Hint: intentional cheshire cat lurking in that
statement.

> Shouldn't Cactus and Watchdog be in the same category?

Same response as the first.

 = = =

My two cents: these categories are not perfect, but are useful.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:10, Sam Ruby wrote:
> Shouldn't...
>
>Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?
>
>Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?
>
>Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?
>
>Lucene and Oro be in the same category?

Shouldn't JMeter and Watchdog be in the same category?

Shouldn't Avalon and Log4j be in the same category?

Shouldn't Avalon and Commons be in the same category?

Shouldn't Avalon and Tomcat be in the same category?

Shouldn't Turbine and Commons be in the same category?

Shouldn't Cactus and JMeter be in the same category?

Shouldn't Cactus and Watchdog be in the same category?

;)
-- 
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Pete

"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit." -- Maugham

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Sam Ruby]

Shouldn't...

   Velocity and Jasper be in the same category?

   Watchdog and Tomcat be in the same category?

   Jmeter and Cactus be in the same category?

   Lucene and Oro be in the same category?

Don't read anything more into these questions: in particular, I believe
that these questions can be addressed without affecting the overall
validity of the categorization scheme.

- Sam Ruby


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

Lazy consensus. If anyone doesn't like it, they can change it :)

"Geir Magnusson Jr." wrote:
> Cool.  I am assuming that you will ask each project where they belong?
> 
> :)


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/6/02 1:56 PM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> In futherance of the work begun the other day, I broke the subproject
> list into three general categories, to increase readability.
> 
> Libraries, Tools, and APIs
> Frameworks and Engines
> Server Applications
> 

Cool.  I am assuming that you will ask each project where they belong?

:)


> I based the initial categories and placements on how the subprojects
> described themselves.
> 
> This is the other thing people visiting the site are forever asking the
> webmaster to do.
> 
> 
> -- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
> -- Building Java web applications with Struts.
> -- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
> -- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
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> 

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin



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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

In futherance of the work begun the other day, I broke the subproject
list into three general categories, to increase readability. 

Libraries, Tools, and APIs 
Frameworks and Engines 
Server Applications 

I based the initial categories and placements on how the subprojects
described themselves. 

This is the other thing people visiting the site are forever asking the
webmaster to do.


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Re: Jakarta Status [or proposal for the jakarta startpage]

[Sam Ruby]

Ceki Gülcü wrote:
>
> What? Contribute to Gump to make it more powerful and nagging? I rather
> iron my old shirts before scratching that itch.  Is it possible that Gump
> is complete such that no one has anything valuable left to contribute?

Sheesh.  Some people have no vision.   ;-)

Did you know that it already has much of the data required to produce the
jakarta start page that people describe?  All that is required is a
stylesheet...  Or if we need more data, there's another hole waiting for
someone to fill.  I'll make it easy, the raw data and a preprocessed,
merged, and sorted version can be found at the following URLs:

   http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-alexandria/proposal/gump/project/
   http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/merge.xml

Other useful byproducts that could stand to be enhanced, both from a visual
perspective and a content perspective:

   http://jakarta.apache.org/builds/gump/latest/xref.html
   http://nagoya.apache.org/~rubys/gump/javadoc.html

I'm also looking to improve the process by which the popular daily binaries
are produced.  More ideas can be found at the following URLs:

   http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-apache-general&m=100857962129228&w=2
   http://www.apache.org/~stefano/forrest/

- Sam Ruby


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Jon Scott Stevens]

on 1/4/02 12:41 PM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I did post an update this morning, but there apparently a problem with
> anoncvs that's preventing me from copying the changes over to the main
> site. 

I did a cvs update for you.

-jon

-- 
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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

Ted,
Hmm, I see it now.
Anyway >kool< work dude and thx. 

Next time I will do it ;-)

  Gerhard
 
"Horngren's Observation (generalized): The real world is a special case."

>-Original Message-
>From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 9:41 PM
>To: Jakarta General List
>Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
>
>
>Gerhard Froehlich wrote:
>> 
>> Nope. No karma for the Jakarta Site, only for the Avalon project.
>> Your turn ;-).
>
>I did post an update this morning, but there apparently a problem with
>anoncvs that's preventing me from copying the changes over to the main
>site. 
>
>
>-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
>-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
>-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
>-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/
>
>--
>To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

Gerhard Froehlich wrote:
> 
> Nope. No karma for the Jakarta Site, only for the Avalon project.
> Your turn ;-).

I did post an update this morning, but there apparently a problem with
anoncvs that's preventing me from copying the changes over to the main
site. 


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Arnaud Vandyck]

Jon Scott Stevens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html

I'm nobody  at ASF but  I am  on this mailling  list. I think  it's my
first post (or near). I just wanna say:

"Jon, It's a really good job!" 

-- Arnaud, STE-Formations Informatiques, fapse, ULg, .BE

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

Gerhard Froehlich wrote:
> PS: Can somebody explain me, why the my mails are send twice
> to this list since today? I've nobody in CC!
 
The same thing is happening to me. I've been thinking my mail filters
had gone hay-write. 

We're apparently getting two copies of our own mails back. 


-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

Hi,

>-Original Message-
>From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 7:49 PM
>To: Jakarta General List
>Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
>
>
>If you already have the karma, Gerhard, go ahead. Otherwise, I can.

Nope. No karma for the Jakarta Site, only for the Avalon project.
Your turn ;-).

>Though, for consistency, I'd paste in the descriptions from Bugzilla,
>which is a more complete list.

Agree

>If anyone else has karma to the ASF site, we should also update the
>projects page, 
>
>http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html
>
>and include the latest products like Lucene and Cactus. 

  Gerhard

PS: Can somebody explain me, why the my mails are send twice
to this list since today? I've nobody in CC!

>-Ted.
>
>
>
>Gerhard Froehlich wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> >From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> >
>> >Here is yet another solution to this problem...
>> >
>> ><http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html>
>> >
>> >Once again, I already did 99% of the work. If you guys would like to help
>> >keep it up to date and maybe link it from the Jakarta homepage (or copy the
>> >data from there), then that would be great. I don't have the energy to do
>> >everything anymore.
>> 
>> Ok. Ted you or I??
>> 
>> >Sigh.
>> 
>> Understandable
>> 
>>   Gerhard
>> 
>> -
>> Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.
>> -


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

If you already have the karma, Gerhard, go ahead. Otherwise, I can.

Though, for consistency, I'd paste in the descriptions from Bugzilla,
which is a more complete list.

If anyone else has karma to the ASF site, we should also update the
projects page, 

http://www.apache.org/foundation/projects.html

and include the latest products like Lucene and Cactus. 

-Ted.



Gerhard Froehlich wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> >From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >
> >Here is yet another solution to this problem...
> >
> >
> >
> >Once again, I already did 99% of the work. If you guys would like to help
> >keep it up to date and maybe link it from the Jakarta homepage (or copy the
> >data from there), then that would be great. I don't have the energy to do
> >everything anymore.
> 
> Ok. Ted you or I??
> 
> >Sigh.
> 
> Understandable
> 
>   Gerhard
> 
> -
> Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.
> -
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 

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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

Hi,

>From: Jon Scott Stevens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
>Here is yet another solution to this problem...
>
>
>
>Once again, I already did 99% of the work. If you guys would like to help
>keep it up to date and maybe link it from the Jakarta homepage (or copy the
>data from there), then that would be great. I don't have the energy to do
>everything anymore.

Ok. Ted you or I??

>Sigh.

Understandable

  Gerhard
 
-
Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.
-


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Jon Scott Stevens]

Here is yet another solution to this problem...



Once again, I already did 99% of the work. If you guys would like to help
keep it up to date and maybe link it from the Jakarta homepage (or copy the
data from there), then that would be great. I don't have the energy to do
everything anymore.

Sigh.

-jon


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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Craig R. McClanahan]

On Thu, 3 Jan 2002, Ted Husted wrote:

> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:45:06 -0500
> From: Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
>
> If everyone thinks the Bugzilla page descriptions are a reasonable
> starting point, I'll do it.

+1

If the descriptions aren't complete enough for the web site front page, we
can always change 'em ...

> People are forever asking for this in the
> Webmaster box, and it will save me the trouble of replying. I also need
> to put one of Jon's "gatekeeper" pages in front of the Webmaster link,
> to induce people to send mail to the User list first.
>
> -Ted.
>

Craig


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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

>-Original Message-
>From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2002 3:45 PM
>To: Jakarta General List
>Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
>
>
>If everyone thinks the Bugzilla page descriptions are a reasonable
>starting point, I'll do it. People are forever asking for this in the
>Webmaster box, and it will save me the trouble of replying. I also need
>to put one of Jon's "gatekeeper" pages in front of the Webmaster link,
>to induce people to send mail to the User list first.
>
>-Ted.

If it's complete go for it, I would say.

  Gerhard


 
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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

If everyone thinks the Bugzilla page descriptions are a reasonable
starting point, I'll do it. People are forever asking for this in the
Webmaster box, and it will save me the trouble of replying. I also need
to put one of Jon's "gatekeeper" pages in front of the Webmaster link,
to induce people to send mail to the User list first.

-Ted.


Vincent Massol wrote:
> 
> Good idea. Here is the blurb for Cactus : "A test framework for unit
> testing server-side java code".
> 
> Thanks for volunteering Gerhard ;-)
> 
> -Vincent
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 03 January 2002 14:15
> > To: Jakarta General List
> > Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
> >
> > On 1/3/02 9:02 AM, "Gerhard Froehlich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > hi,
> > > following idea for the jakarta startpage:
> > > how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on
> the
> > > startpage. something like that:
> > >
> > > TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT
> > >
> > > NAV   Lucene:
> > > NAV   A java based text search enginge.
> > > NAV   ORO:
> > >   A set off...
> > >
> > > because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what
> > > they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find
> > > the correct subproject
> > >
> >
> > Good idea.  We were going to do that at one point.
> >
> > Maybe we'll ask each newsletter contributor to make up a *one*
> sentence
> > blurb and do it that way.
> >
> > --
> > Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > System and Software Consulting
> > "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by
> subduing
> > the
> > freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

-- Ted Husted, Husted dot Com, Fairport NY USA.
-- Building Java web applications with Struts.
-- Tel +1 585 737-3463.
-- Web http://www.husted.com/struts/

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RE: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Vincent Massol]

Good idea. Here is the blurb for Cactus : "A test framework for unit
testing server-side java code".

Thanks for volunteering Gerhard ;-)

-Vincent

> -Original Message-
> From: Geir Magnusson Jr. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 03 January 2002 14:15
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage
> 
> On 1/3/02 9:02 AM, "Gerhard Froehlich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> 
> > hi,
> > following idea for the jakarta startpage:
> > how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on
the
> > startpage. something like that:
> >
> > TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT
> >
> > NAV   Lucene:
> > NAV   A java based text search enginge.
> > NAV   ORO:
> >   A set off...
> >
> > because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what
> > they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find
> > the correct subproject
> >
> 
> Good idea.  We were going to do that at one point.
> 
> Maybe we'll ask each newsletter contributor to make up a *one*
sentence
> blurb and do it that way.
> 
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> System and Software Consulting
> "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by
subduing
> the
> freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin
> 
> 
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> For additional commands, e-mail:
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 




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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Ted Husted]

What I've been meaning to do is set this up using the descriptions from
Bugzilla, but never seem to get round to it. 

http://nagoya.apache.org/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi



"Geir Magnusson Jr." wrote:
> 
> On 1/3/02 9:02 AM, "Gerhard Froehlich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > hi,
> > following idea for the jakarta startpage:
> > how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on the
> > startpage. something like that:
> >
> > TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT
> >
> > NAV   Lucene:
> > NAV   A java based text search enginge.
> > NAV   ORO:
> >   A set off...
> >
> > because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what
> > they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find
> > the correct subproject
> >
> 
> Good idea.  We were going to do that at one point.
> 
> Maybe we'll ask each newsletter contributor to make up a *one* sentence
> blurb and do it that way.
> 
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> System and Software Consulting
> "Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the
> freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin
> 
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:   
> For additional commands, e-mail: 

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Re: proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Geir Magnusson Jr.]

On 1/3/02 9:02 AM, "Gerhard Froehlich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> hi,
> following idea for the jakarta startpage:
> how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on the
> startpage. something like that:
> 
> TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT
> 
> NAV   Lucene:
> NAV   A java based text search enginge.
> NAV   ORO:
>   A set off...
> 
> because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what
> they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find
> the correct subproject
> 

Good idea.  We were going to do that at one point.

Maybe we'll ask each newsletter contributor to make up a *one* sentence
blurb and do it that way.

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
System and Software Consulting
"Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the
freeness of speech." - Benjamin Franklin



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proposal for the jakarta startpage

[Gerhard Froehlich]

hi,
following idea for the jakarta startpage:
how about adding a short description of each jakarta subproject on the
startpage. something like that:

TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT

NAV   Lucene:
NAV   A java based text search enginge.
NAV   ORO:
A set off...

because now you have to click in every subproject to find out what
they are doing. with this proposal it would be much easier to find
the correct subproject

  gerhard



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