Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Tuesday 01 July 2003 03:06 pm, MooktaKiNG wrote: Thats mostly becuase those using root are usually looking for help and asking questions in IRC. while they are in the middle of install or post install. IRCing as root is never a good idea. Never. -- Zack Gilburd http://tehunlose.com GnuPG Key ID: A79A45668240AB6C pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 02 July 2003 00:06, MooktaKiNG wrote: With more and more people using linux, you will have more and more idiots using linux - as root. Check IRC for evidence. And of course you do not have those strange /dev/dsp and cdrecord problems as root!!!1! Regards, Jens Thats mostly becuase those using root are usually looking for help and asking questions in IRC. while they are in the middle of install or post install. I sometimes do that. But i usually use it for like 10-20min. I logout after i found the answar etc. The least one should do, if not adding a normal user before IRCing, is setting the user name to something other than root. Like with irssi: /set user_name blabla But of course that only keeps the channel from cheering root has landed..., it doesn't really solve any problems. - - ueberlamer -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/A0IRm4+n6JcwFSURArLWAJ49oIq/I/tUrsq4/e58WaK8YfG8dACcD4f+ bCTFFjIPvYLXeMtJ+AXvjfw= =RZoF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Dan Fairs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [ ... ] Public sector adoption in particular is interesting. Here in the UK, it looks like the government are a Microsoft shop, with the Government Gateway and all. Has anyone been involved in a Gentoo deployment in the public sector? at the department of Mathematics at the University of Oslo we use Linux for both servers and clients, but we have access to a single Windows terminal server via rdesktop. the linux distribution of choice around here is RedHat. we also have some OS9 macs, but we're migrating over to OSX slowly. the rest of the university has a rather large amount of linux boxen. I can't give an exact number, but other departments (apart from the obvious Computer Science) are also major linux users. -- Terje -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 02 July 2003 22:49, Terje Kvernes wrote: Dan Fairs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [ ... ] Public sector adoption in particular is interesting. Here in the UK, it looks like the government are a Microsoft shop, with the Government Gateway and all. Has anyone been involved in a Gentoo deployment in the public sector? at the department of Mathematics at the University of Oslo we use Linux for both servers and clients, but we have access to a single Windows terminal server via rdesktop. the linux distribution of choice around here is RedHat. we also have some OS9 macs, but we're migrating over to OSX slowly. the rest of the university has a rather large amount of linux boxen. I can't give an exact number, but other departments (apart from the obvious Computer Science) are also major linux users. Here at the department of computer science (University of Bergen) we are Using Just Linux. Currently RedHat 8.0 ;( I would rather have another distro, but as a student its not my choice. The engineers are going to upgrade to RH9 this summer. At lower grade we have about 45 computers. For master grade students I don't have the numbers. The Whole faculty for Mathematics and nature science was going for linux, but of cause people protested (biology girls and such ). We need M$ Office ARG! But the new 4-year plan for IT says that open software shall be used at the university at whole, as often as possible. ;) - -- gnuPG key: ID 915B0745 at http://pgp.mit.edu/ http://www.fribyte.uib.no/~svein/PublicKey.asc Key fingerprint = 0123 B179 0994 F5C7 12D3 F253 E0AA 6A67 915B 0745 Registered Linux User #319622 'The maths is easy,' said Chaos. AH? WELL, MATHS, said Death, dismissively. GENERALLY I NEVER GET MUCH FURTHER THAN SUBTRACTION. Svein Harald Soleim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/AzKE4KpqZ5FbB0URAiPYAKCc6t5wv4dkbuezp7xmCnkqKgWUhQCggtBT g2Fs3Wgxqm3rkAD+QwaHDk0= =6tH3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:35:43 -0700 Zack Gilburd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 30 June 2003 12:33 am, Gavrila wrote: Il lun, 2003-06-30 alle 06:37, Zack Gilburd wrote: On Sunday 29 June 2003 08:42 pm, Jerry McBride wrote: As a true linux follower I'm always looking for ways to get potential linux users to jump the Microsoft bandwagon. Whenever I get a chance. Until snippy Please be careful with converting people... Linux is not for everyone. :) It should be, and I think we're very close. :) Regards. Well i'm about 40 years and using Unix (solaris) for more than 15 years now, i have used linux when Slackware 3 came out, and used it some times, trying Suse, RH and some others. This year when i bought a new laptop, I dit the switch give up on windows, and installd Gentoo, it hurt at start, but i can do now just the same as in windows and mutch more !!. The only 'problem' i got with Linux or should i say the community that there is no standard or developers the keeping them, every dist uses /etc config files different, and this was the most dufficult part of switching. I think distro's like RH, Suse, and Mandrake are good for beginners but they should use the config files all in the same way. In September i'm starting to write a paper about switching a windows company to *nix and opensource (for my degree). Everything i shall write about, i'm going to try at home in my testlab, and place it on my web-site so i can get some feedback from you all. Patrick -- Please, Spock, do me a favor don't say it's 'fascinating'. -- Dr. McCoy No... but it is... interesting... -- Spock PGP Key: http://users.pandora.be/rivendell/marquetp.gpg Fingerprint = 2792 057F C445 9486 F932 3AEA D3A3 1B0C 1059 273B ICQ# 316932703 Registered Linux User #44550 http://counter.li.org pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 01 July 2003 05:04, Richard Kilgore wrote: [snip] Obviously I'm having some fun here, and exaggerating Windows shortcomings and avoiding Linux shortcomings, but in my experience, it is simply NOT the case that Linux is harder to use. It's just not what everyone is used to in this particular country. Yet! - richard I was visiting a (german) police station a few weeks ago. They use GNU/Linux with the windowmaker WM, I guess SuSE is their flavor. I asked the fifty-something-year-old officer if there where problems regarding usability and the GUI. He said No, there are no problems, it is just like any computer should be. I am sure he didn't have to install it by himself, but there seem to be no problems with everyday use of Linux in german police stations. I think that's cool. Police officers are not geeks in general... - - ueberlamer -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/AV2Qm4+n6JcwFSURAi3SAKCytJVPNAFLCECCUIlGlWig5ue7uwCgkYAr xoianFjqypUXhVaT2H16bwU= =8YmP -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Hi, I was visiting a (german) police station a few weeks ago. They use GNU/Linux with the windowmaker WM, I guess SuSE is their flavor. I asked the That's an interesting point. I keep reading that Europe is ahead of the US in Linux adoption, and the Far East and Asia are ahead of both. Does anyone have evidence to corroborate that? Public sector adoption in particular is interesting. Here in the UK, it looks like the government are a Microsoft shop, with the Government Gateway and all. Has anyone been involved in a Gentoo deployment in the public sector? Cheers, Dan -- Dan Fairs [EMAIL PROTECTED] spiderplant.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:58:11 -0700 Zack Gilburd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! Your mail was sooo full of (intentional?) misunderstandings that I couldn't believe it. Others have addressed most of them, but lets take this as a another example... Well currently they are still using Windows, and I've totally stopped using it (except in my work as windows developer because I really don't have a choise). Still I keep thinking about installing linux on my parents machine also, since they are already using mozilla etc. LOL they are using Mozilla so now they are ready to take on a command line with nothing being familiar to them? HAHAHAHAH... I only ask that you open your eyes. Linux is NOT the best choice for everyone, and god help us the day that it is. ?? Who said anything about command line? They don't use it in windows either, and propably don't even know what it is. If I was to set up a linux-box with gnome/kde and a graphical login, with mozilla, balsa/sylpheed/evolution (pre-configured of course) and openoffice buttons in the workspace/toolbar, why would the ever need to touch the command line? All they ever do is use those applications, but because it's linux everybody needs to do some hacking in the command line? -- Janne So act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world. - Immanuel Kant -- janne So act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world. - Immanuel Kant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 15:58:11 -0700 Zack Gilburd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (not taking into account that linux doesn't really need a anti-virus software). What a terrible assumption. No it's not. A well thought out and planned attack can be executed and completed sucessfully against Linux than it can Windows. Yes it can, but I wasn't talking about it. What I said was, that under linux, you do no really need an anti-virus program. Since my parents_do not_ download spyware, or any other software for that matter, the only source for viruses is virus infested emails. And as I see it, linux email-clients do not have nearly as extencive 'run-a-virus' or 'spread-a-worm' support as say OE. However, your box is not being rooted every five minutes because virus are not developed against Linux due to the fact that a very small percentage of people use Linux. Yes, and if more people used linux, more viruses would propably exist, but even then a regular user could only hose his/her own files, and not the whole computer. If more viruses existed, anti-virus program _might_ be needed, but in that case I could easily set it up for them. -- janne So act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world. - Immanuel Kant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 04:58:09PM +0300, Janne Johansson wrote: If I was to set up a linux-box with gnome/kde and a graphical login, with mozilla, balsa/sylpheed/evolution (pre-configured of course) and openoffice buttons in the workspace/toolbar, why would the ever need to touch the command line? Because it's fun ;-) Cheers, Dennis Please note that my email address has changed. Update your address book to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
* On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:38:42 +0300, Janne Johansson wrote: Yes, and if more people used linux, more viruses would propably exist, but even then a regular user could only hose his/her own files, and not the whole computer. With more and more people using linux, you will have more and more idiots using linux - as root. Check IRC for evidence. And of course you do not have those strange /dev/dsp and cdrecord problems as root!!!1! Regards, Jens -- Tempt me with a spoon! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 11:19:04AM +0100, Dan Fairs wrote: Public sector adoption in particular is interesting. Here in the UK, it looks like the government are a Microsoft shop, with the Government Gateway and all. Has anyone been involved in a Gentoo deployment in the public sector? I've got 1 Gentoo server here, soon to be 2 (migrating from SuSE), and a laptop I use for LAN analysis. Everything works great-- as a server, I think Gentoo is *much* better than Red Hat Advanced Server, but then I'm not a big Red Hat fan. Cheers, Dennis -- Dennis Soper[EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Supervisor Facilities Services-- The University of Oregon 1276 University of Oregon phone: 541-346-2286 Eugene, OR 97403 fax:541-346-2299 Please note that my email address has changed. Update your address book to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Insert an image into a .doc. Try to open that .doc with OpenOffice. Open and shut case. I've tried getting my father to use Linux. The drawbacks and the reason why he went back to Windows was because of compatibility with other computers. He's a business man, he needs to receive docs, etc on a regular basis. Give another example, beyond .docs, because linux has that covered. See above, no we do not have it covered. Just what is open and shut about this case. I just did it. No Problem. Don't get defensive when somebody refers to a 13 year old kid as inexperienced. It's generally quite true. The clearest memory I have of 15 was that I was a cocksure little bastard sure that I knew all there was. It didn't take very much longer to realize that I knew nothing. -rex -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On 2003.07.01 13:56, Rex Young wrote: Just what is open and shut about this case. I just did it. No Problem. Don't get defensive when somebody refers to a 13 year old kid as inexperienced. It's generally quite true. The clearest memory I have of 15 was that I was a cocksure little bastard sure that I knew all there was. It didn't take very much longer to realize that I knew nothing. I was the same way when I was 15. Boy was I silly! I can see this, looking back now, since I'm 20 and _now_ know everything. -Chris I The wind doth taste so bitter sweet, Like Jaspar wine and sugar, It must have blown through someone's feet, Like those of Caspar Weinberger. -- P. Opus pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ date ; echo ${Chris I}
Tuesday 01 July 2003 06:02 pm
On 2003.07.01 13:56, Rex Young wrote:
Just what is open and shut about this case. I just did it. No
Problem.
Don't get defensive when somebody refers to a 13 year old kid as
inexperienced. It's generally quite true. The clearest memory I have
of 15
was that I was a cocksure little bastard sure that I knew all there
was. It
didn't take very much longer to realize that I knew nothing.
I was the same way when I was 15. Boy was I silly!
I can see this, looking back now, since I'm 20 and _now_ know
everything.
Heh, wait 'til you're 32 like me. Then you'll know you know nothing yet :-)
Regards,
Norberto
pgp0.pgp
Description: signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Tuesday 01 July 2003 05:53 pm, Norberto BENSA wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ date ; echo ${Chris I}
Tuesday 01 July 2003 06:02 pm
On 2003.07.01 13:56, Rex Young wrote:
Just what is open and shut about this case. I just did it. No
Problem.
Don't get defensive when somebody refers to a 13 year old kid as
inexperienced. It's generally quite true. The clearest memory I
have of 15
was that I was a cocksure little bastard sure that I knew all
there was. It
didn't take very much longer to realize that I knew nothing.
I was the same way when I was 15. Boy was I silly!
I can see this, looking back now, since I'm 20 and _now_ know
everything.
Heh, wait 'til you're 32 like me. Then you'll know you know nothing
yet :-)
Regards,
Norberto
Then at 54 like me you'll realize that most stuff just ain't worth
knowin' an you won't care except that you'll STILL want to slap the
crap out of that 13 year old. :o)
--
Regards, Ernie
100% Microsoft and Intel free
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Tuesday 01 Jul 2003 23:19, Ernie Schroder wrote:
On Tuesday 01 July 2003 05:53 pm, Norberto BENSA wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ $ date ; echo ${Chris I}
Tuesday 01 July 2003 06:02 pm
On 2003.07.01 13:56, Rex Young wrote:
Just what is open and shut about this case. I just did it. No
Problem.
Don't get defensive when somebody refers to a 13 year old kid
as inexperienced. It's generally quite true. The clearest
memory I have of 15
was that I was a cocksure little bastard sure that I knew all
there was. It
didn't take very much longer to realize that I knew nothing.
I was the same way when I was 15. Boy was I silly!
I can see this, looking back now, since I'm 20 and _now_ know
everything.
Heh, wait 'til you're 32 like me. Then you'll know you know nothing
yet :-)
Then at 54 like me you'll realize that most stuff just ain't worth
knowin' an you won't care except that you'll STILL want to slap the
crap out of that 13 year old. :o)
and when you're 65 like me you think twice before wanting to slap the
crap out of anyone ;-) Hey, I'm still 15 inside my head.
Peter
--
==
Gentoo Linux: Gentoo Base System version 1.4.3.8p1
kernel-2.4.21_rc8-gss i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1600+
==
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Tuesday 01 July 2003 13:19, Dan Fairs wrote: Hi, I was visiting a (german) police station a few weeks ago. They use GNU/Linux with the windowmaker WM, I guess SuSE is their flavor. I asked the That's an interesting point. I keep reading that Europe is ahead of the US in Linux adoption, and the Far East and Asia are ahead of both. Does anyone have evidence to corroborate that? The Turku city just decided to convert about 60% of their desktop machines to Linux and upgrade the 40% to Win XP from Win 9x. Public sector adoption in particular is interesting. Here in the UK, it looks like the government are a Microsoft shop, with the Government Gateway and all. Has anyone been involved in a Gentoo deployment in the public sector? I think Gentoo would be good candidate for public sector, because it could be tailored so that the system contains only the necessary parts, thus giving longer life time to the systems. The only down side is that there is not enough qualified peoples in the providing companies, who can take it in use in the public sector deliveries. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Thats mostly becuase those using root are usually looking for help and asking questions in IRC. while they are in the middle of install or post install. I sometimes do that. But i usually use it for like 10-20min. I logout after i found the answar etc. * On Tue, Jul 01, 2003 at 17:38:42 +0300, Janne Johansson wrote: Yes, and if more people used linux, more viruses would propably exist, but even then a regular user could only hose his/her own files, and not the whole computer. With more and more people using linux, you will have more and more idiots using linux - as root. Check IRC for evidence. And of course you do not have those strange /dev/dsp and cdrecord problems as root!!!1! Regards, Jens -- Tempt me with a spoon! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list Please wait while you are redirected to my signature -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
and when you're 65 like me you think twice before wanting to slap the crap out of anyone ;-) Hey, I'm still 15 inside my head. And then you realize that you missed out when you were 19: that you're still young enough to think you know all there is while realizing there's more to learn still ;) Peter MIKE -- Beware the JabberOrk -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Dan Fairs wrote: Hi, I was visiting a (german) police station a few weeks ago. They use GNU/Linux with the windowmaker WM, I guess SuSE is their flavor. I asked the That's an interesting point. I keep reading that Europe is ahead of the US in Linux adoption, and the Far East and Asia are ahead of both. Does anyone have evidence to corroborate that? Public sector adoption in particular is interesting. Here in the UK, it looks like the government are a Microsoft shop, with the Government Gateway and all. Has anyone been involved in a Gentoo deployment in the public sector? Cheers, Dan In Australia some of our government was looking at open source, last I heard they were worried it is effecting our free trade negotiations with the U.S. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Il lun, 2003-06-30 alle 06:37, Zack Gilburd wrote: On Sunday 29 June 2003 08:42 pm, Jerry McBride wrote: As a true linux follower I'm always looking for ways to get potential linux users to jump the Microsoft bandwagon. Whenever I get a chance. Until snippy Please be careful with converting people... Linux is not for everyone. :) It should be, and I think we're very close. :) Regards. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
The day my grandmother can get over the learning curve of managing her own Gentoo box, then we'reclose. ?? Can your grandmother manage her own windows computer? Without help? Without some preinstalled, preconfigured system? Wow, what a grandma... -- Janne So act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world. - Immanuel Kant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
The day my grandmother can get over the learning curve of managing her own Gentoo box, then we'reclose. ?? Can your grandmother manage her own windows computer? Without help? Without some preinstalled, preconfigured system? Wow, what a grandma... My mom, who is 73+ and is a grandma, manages her on Windows box just fine. She installs her applications herself, (mostly bridge games and genealogy stuff) does her own backups, writes letters and emails to people. Grandpa does the same on his Windows box using Outlook and IE. He runs Excel a lot, and does his banking online. They both have a copy of PC Anywhere running in the background, but I haven't had to help them in the last year. In my small recording studio I run two Windows boxes, one win ME and the other XP Home. Both run fine and never seem to get messed up, but I am very, very careful about what I install and use Norton Ghost a lot to protect myself. On the other hand, I'm mid-late 40's, a computer hardware professional, and I cannot manage a Gentoo or Redhat Linux box very well at all. Most web-based multimedia types down work in any other browsers I've tried. Alsa based sound is VERY spotty. Java doesn't work very well for me. Email really does work pretty well, but I have no virus protection so I partition email in it's own private account with limited access to the drive. Please don't get me wrong. I run Linux every bit as much on most days as I run Windows. I have run Wine for a few apps, hoping to give up Windows completely, but it's not ready for prime time so I haven't been able to do that. (Yet!) If there was ever an attempt to have a concerted effort of making a real desktop, user friendly, version of Gentoo, so that right out of the box it did the things grandma and grandpa expect, then I'd love to jump in and help define and test it. Unfortunately, it's not there yet. - Mark -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Mark Knecht wrote: If there was ever an attempt to have a concerted effort of making a real desktop, user friendly, version of Gentoo, so that right out of the box it did the things grandma and grandpa expect, then I'd love to jump in and help define and test it. Unfortunately, it's not there yet. - Mark You might want to look at Knoppix. On CD (only one) it boots directly from the CD. Determines hw and sets up appropriately. Makes a great recovery disk for just that reason. Need to demo Linux to a Windozer? Pop Knoppix into their machine and boot. Comes up in KDE as a default, lets them test drive Linux and doesn't mess with their install because it doesn't mount the hard drive. You can work around this for recovery purposes, but it isn't automatic. In Harmony's Way, and In A Chord, Tom :-}) Thomas A. Condon Barbershop Bass Singer Registered Linux User #154358 A Jester Unemployed -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 12:35:43PM -0700, Zack Gilburd wrote: It should be: maybe. Are we close? No. The day my grandmother can get over the learning curve of managing her own Gentoo box, then we're close. I do not entirely agree with the opinion that it should be, however. I do not want Linux to be so user friendly that I can no longer use it properly (think Redhat, Mandrake, et al). Folks might want to qualify the term ease of administration, because this term depends more than somewhat upon the person using it. I chose Gentoo for what I perceive to be its ease of administration. That is, no funky GUI administration tools. I much prefer doing system administration at the command line with vim being my preferred administration tool. Cheers, Dennis -- Dennis Soper[EMAIL PROTECTED] Network Supervisor Facilities Services-- The University of Oregon 1276 University of Oregon phone: 541-346-2286 Eugene, OR 97403 fax:541-346-2299 Please note that my email address has changed. Update your address book to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Please don't get me wrong. I run Linux every bit as much on most days as I run Windows. I have run Wine for a few apps, hoping to give up Windows completely, but it's not ready for prime time so I haven't been able to do that. (Yet!) What my point really was, was that for example my parents (my grandparents are all dead, or well on their way...) don't really know what a computer does, and they don't even care enough to learn. What that means is that they really couldn't buy a computer without OS installed, if I wasn't there to install it. When it is installed, they couldn't care less what OS it really is, as long as they have the nice looking button that opens the web-browser, the other button that opens e-mail client and the one that opens word processing software (actually they don't even know that those are the real names and not internet, mail and writing program). My mom has managed to get an anti-virus software installed by herself, following instructions from her ISPs website, but I doubt if it was easier than: emerge f-prot (not taking into account that linux doesn't really need a anti-virus software). I don't see how Windows could be any easier. And since I'm already acting as a helpdesk over the phone, on a linux box I could just log in to their computer using ssh and do the needed adjustments/updates (unless of course, the help request was about some feature in the 'writing program'). How easy would that be for me and for my parents? Well currently they are still using Windows, and I've totally stopped using it (except in my work as windows developer because I really don't have a choise). Still I keep thinking about installing linux on my parents machine also, since they are already using mozilla etc. -- Janne So act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world. - Immanuel Kant -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
Il lun, 2003-06-30 alle 21:35, Zack Gilburd ha scritto: Please be careful with converting people... Linux is not for everyone. :) It should be, and I think we're very close. :) Regards. It should be: maybe. Are we close? No. The day my grandmother can get over the learning curve of managing her own Gentoo box, then we're close. IMHO your grandma shouldn't get a gentoo linux, rather I'd point her towards Mandrake and drakrpm. She would be able to install e uninstall properly as well, if not even better, as on windoze I do not entirely agree with the opinion that it should be, however. I do not want Linux to be so user friendly that I can no longer use it properly (think Redhat, Mandrake, et al). Goof thing about linux is that you can choose. It exists in many falvours, it's up to you choosing the one you prefer. Using it properly, often refers to managing servers which is a differnt issue than using it as a desktop. Gentoo IMO is a distro for a power user, having to deal with compilations flags, and things like these. I still believe Linux is _not_ for everyone and will never be for everyone. There is a difference between being a Linux zealot and a Linux enthusiast. I am the latter. Perhaps it isn't already for everyone (if only hardware houses would release native drivers for all their products...) but I still think we're on the right way and soon we will have a desktop breakthrough of linux. Regards -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Monday 30 June 2003 02:51 pm, Janne Johansson wrote: What that means is that they really couldn't buy a computer without OS installed, if I wasn't there to install it. When it is installed, they couldn't care less what OS it really is, as long as they have the nice looking button that opens the web-browser, the other button that opens e-mail client and the one that opens word processing software (actually they don't even know that those are the real names and not internet, mail and writing program). Yes, they would. They would ask you why on earth is it so hard to use and why can't I open XYZ.doc that my friend sent me? It works just fine for [him|her]! I've tried getting my father to use Linux. The drawbacks and the reason why he went back to Windows was because of compatibility with other computers. He's a business man, he needs to receive docs, etc on a regular basis. My mom has managed to get an anti-virus software installed by herself, following instructions from her ISPs website, but I doubt if it was easier than: emerge f-prot (not taking into account that linux doesn't really need a anti-virus software). What a terrible assumption. A well thought out and planned attack can be executed and completed sucessfully against Linux than it can Windows. However, your box is not being rooted every five minutes because virus are not developed against Linux due to the fact that a very small percentage of people use Linux. I don't see how Windows could be any easier. And since I'm already acting as a helpdesk over the phone, on a linux box I could just log in to their computer using ssh and do the needed adjustments/updates (unless of course, the help request was about some feature in the 'writing program'). How easy would that be for me and for my parents? Windows XP has a form of their terminal services client/server out of the box. How easy would it be to instruct your grandmother on how to install, configure, and run a VNC server? It's just easier with Windows in that aspect. Well currently they are still using Windows, and I've totally stopped using it (except in my work as windows developer because I really don't have a choise). Still I keep thinking about installing linux on my parents machine also, since they are already using mozilla etc. LOL they are using Mozilla so now they are ready to take on a command line with nothing being familiar to them? HAHAHAHAH... I only ask that you open your eyes. Linux is NOT the best choice for everyone, and god help us the day that it is. And if you think I am a Windows supporter or troll, tell that to my 4 Gentoo boxes. There is a huge difference between being a Linux zealot, as you are, and being an open minded individual, thus seeing the situation as a whole. -- Zack Gilburd http://tehunlose.com GnuPG Key ID: A79A45668240AB6C pgp0.pgp Description: signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 03:58:11PM -0700, Zack Gilburd wrote: Yes, they would. They would ask you why on earth is it so hard to use and why can't I open XYZ.doc that my friend sent me? It works just fine for [him|her]! When was the last time you used office software in Linux? I've tried getting my father to use Linux. The drawbacks and the reason why he went back to Windows was because of compatibility with other computers. He's a business man, he needs to receive docs, etc on a regular basis. Give another example, beyond .docs, because linux has that covered. What a terrible assumption. A well thought out and planned attack can be executed and completed sucessfully against Linux than it can Windows. I'll believe it when I see it. Where's your evidence that Linux is even remotely as vulnerable as Windows? Windows XP has a form of their terminal services client/server out of the box. How easy would it be to instruct your grandmother on how to install, configure, and run a VNC server? It's just easier with Windows in that aspect. ??? Why would she need to do that? ssh works out of the box, with far fewer security problems then terminal services. VNC what?? And if you think I am a Windows supporter or troll, tell that to my 4 Gentoo boxes. I think you're giving yourself too much credit for knowing how to run a linux box. It's not that hard, 13 year old kids do it, and some are probably better than you at it. There is a huge difference between being a Linux zealot, as you are, and being an open minded individual, thus seeing the situation as a whole. You've got this about as backwards as you can. I can't stand it when people who have been running windows for 10 years say that it's easier to use by nature. Open up /your/ eyes, man. If you were open-minded about the situation you'd give linux as much learning time as you've given windows (and encourage others around you to do so as well). Owen Linux advocate, linux user, not smart enough to figure out windows -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 03:58:11PM -0700, Zack Gilburd wrote: Content-Description: signed data On Monday 30 June 2003 02:51 pm, Janne Johansson wrote: What that means is that they really couldn't buy a computer without OS [snip] Yes, they would. They would ask you why on earth is it so hard to use and why can't I open XYZ.doc that my friend sent me? It works just fine for [him|her]! Because it is a carefully guarded, proprietary data format, that a malicious monopoly protects like a pack of wild dogs, specifically so we /won't/ have a choice. Yes, the unfortunate fact is that a large percentage of the computer-using world is clueless about the issue of proprietary data exchange vs. open document formats, and yes, most of these types are mindlessly producing .doc after .doc. But in no way is it a shortcoming of Linux that it has difficulty opening these pieces of s*#t! It is not a good example of why Linux is not ready yet. By this ridiculous standard, Linux will not ever be ready, unless Microsoft completely loses on other fronts and finally sells Word for Linux. But also worth noting is that one version of Word can't even read a document created by another version of Word half the time without crashing. Sometimes it can't even read its own documents without crashing because they're so convoluted and forked up! I've tried getting my father to use Linux. The drawbacks and the reason why he went back to Windows was because of compatibility with other computers. He's a business man, he needs to receive docs, etc on a regular basis. There is never going to be a superior alternative to reading specifically proprietary Microsoft Word documents to Microsoft Word. But if things are to _ever_ improve, we need to send .doc the way of the dinosaur, and quickly! We demand interoperability already in almost every other product arena - save the other completely out-of-control monopolies. If I buy a bolt from company A, I am not also forced to by the nut from them. All games vendors are not forced to write their games to the Nvidia or ATI video card (OpenGL, DirectX, SDL). If I browse the web, i can _usually_ view a given web document with whatever HTML/javascript/etc.-supporting browser I choose: although Microsoft is trying like hell to change that one. My mom has managed to get an anti-virus software installed by herself, following instructions from her ISPs website, but I doubt if it was easier than: emerge f-prot (not taking into account that linux doesn't really need a anti-virus software). What a terrible assumption. A well thought out and planned attack can be executed and completed sucessfully against Linux than it can Windows. However, your box is not being rooted every five minutes because virus are not developed against Linux due to the fact that a very small percentage of people use Linux. For those that choose to take great care against script-kiddies, it looks to me as if you are better off with an open source OS. Plugging known security holes is the kind of thing that the open source model does quite well. You can wait around weeks, months, or forever for Microsoft to decide that a particular exploit is important enough to address, all the while simply praying for luck, or you can receive e-mail every day about the latest security holes that someone found, and oh, by the way, fixed and distributed the fix in the time since you last checked your e-mail. [snip] LOL they are using Mozilla so now they are ready to take on a command line with nothing being familiar to them? HAHAHAHAH... I only ask that you open your eyes. Linux is NOT the best choice for everyone, and god help us the day that it is. Again, I simply do not agree that Linux is significantly harder to use. Keep in mind that you have lived with the horrors of Windows for going on 13 years or more now (depending on when you started). You may have lived with Word and Excel for longer. These programs are a BITCH to learn. They don't do what you expect often. They crash when you try to do things in an unusual way (try messing with figures, floating, wrapped text, jpegs, captions - you're guaranteed to crash and have trouble modifying the document in any way before long). And if I have to trouble-shoot one more problem in that damn word processor where it is trying to correct my mistake and I have to find a way to tell it, No! That is really what I want! (e.g., I don't want a capital letter at the start of that bullet or table box! I don't want to move that figure 5 pages further up in my document! I don't want to talk to your anti-christ spiral wire thing AGAIN!). And if you're answers to these questions are, oh, that's easy to fix, just ..., then think about it as if you didn't find the answer each of these problems sometime during the last 15 years, but instead this is the first time you've ever seen this exasperating, behemoth, vat of software and UI bugs (Word, in case you
Re: [gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
On Sunday 29 June 2003 08:42 pm, Jerry McBride wrote: As a true linux follower I'm always looking for ways to get potential linux users to jump the Microsoft bandwagon. Whenever I get a chance. Until snippy Please be careful with converting people... Linux is not for everyone. :) -- Zack Gilburd http://tehunlose.com GnuPG Key ID: A79A45668240AB6C pgp0.pgp Description: signature
[gentoo-user] Windows to linux... What was that app?
As a true linux follower I'm always looking for ways to get potential linux users to jump the Microsoft bandwagon. Whenever I get a chance. Until tonight I was only able to draw from my own experience and that of others that have gone before me. As of tonight, I've got a really good resource that goes beyond what I've experienced in migrating from windows (I never used it, honest) to linux. Freshly plucked from c.o.l.a. I submit the following url to anyone that needs a tip as to what linux application can be used to replace windows apps. http://linuxshop.ru/linuxbegin/win-lin-soft-en It's worth a bookmark. Cheers. P.S. Not that anyone will cheer or boo... but I'll be on vacation in Mexico for the next two weeks. Save your off-list emails till then, please. Adios! -- ** Registered Linux User Number 185956 http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=ensafe=offgroup=linux Join me in chat at #linux-users on irc.freenode.net This email account no longers accepts attachments or messages containing html. 11:22pm up 173 days, 3:56, 3 users, load average: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
