Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Samstag 07 Februar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann writes: > > On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote: > >> Volker Armin Hemmann writes: > >> > and what do I, if I need to read info to be able to install emacs to > >> > read info? > >> > >> You appear to be taking a potshot, not really adding to the > >> discussion. > >> > >> I know you are not incapable of installing emacs and we both know you > >> can read info without it quite well. So I'm left wondering why you > >> add this combative post. > > > > easy - what if you need info to get networking working - and without > > networking you can not download emacs? > > Once more: > users can read info with the stand alone info reader just fine. > (No need to install anything) > no they can't. The standard info reader is a horrible, horrible mess. Navigating is a nightmare, the information you are looking for might be hidden *somewhere* and if you are really lucky isn't even there at all. But you can't find out quickly. I had to help a lot of people in the past who were not able to find anything in info because of the chapters and hard ways to navigate it. > > man is easy to read. Always. Info? Not. > > I respect your experience, talent and especially many contributions to > this list. But, you present your opinions as if they are acts of > nature. Its good to remember its only your opinion not a law of > physics or some other indisputable fact. > Thanks for the sweets but I am not the only one who thinks that info is the worst way to display information. Sure, some people love it. But a lot of people don't. And what you just told me is true for you too: just because you like it doesn't make info a good tool. > If you do then an indexed document with a table of contents, is going > to be `easier', in the sense that you will be able to navigate it > better and pull in relevant comments on related matters easily. > Therefore you will learn more, quicker. I have never been able to find information in info quickly. I do have found information in man pages VERY quickly. > >> People are discussing HTML, which of course needs some reader... I'm > >> pointing out a more advanced way to use info that may appeal to some. > > > > less can do html just fine. > > None the less, a second application is required. If I recall > correctly less is not part of a stage[23] install and therefore must > be installed. you recall wrongly. less is part of stage1 and stage3. > But even if I'm wrong, and it is, and you don't have to > install something, we aren't necessarily talking here about the barest > bone case. You keep raising that but I've seen no one argue against > man in that event. At least not me. even busybox has an built in less. You can't go much 'barest bone' than just busybox. > > In a `no network' situation: > Once I've tried `man' and still have trouble, I use the stand alone info > reader.. In other words, man is my first choice. I agree that for > many things man can't be beat, but for something like the bash > documentation info is vastly superior. and for everything else from cat, dd, tar to unzip, watch, wget, zcat. man is superior. Even gcc manpage is much easier to read than info gcc. > And if you have the > opportunity to use emacs to read the info documents.. that's all the > better. or maybe the only way without getting lost? > [...] > > > I used xemacs in the past - which is even better. But today kate and nano > > replaced it for me. > > Once again your opinion is presented as hard fact. where? Because of the 'xemacs is even better'? Well, you are stating all the time that info is perfect for big things like bash - and then you are critizing me for stating unsupportable hard facts? Pretty ironic, don't you think? > My opinion is that Xemacs is NOT better and in fact is inferior in > many ways, but that is for another thread... and probably not worth > the effort anyway since that argument will take on religious overtones > very quickly. which does not change the fact, that for me (!): a) xemacs was better b) kate&nano are better than xemacs and c) when I have to use emacs, I am missing both nano and kate.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Sebastian Günther wrote: > * Dale (rdalek1...@gmail.com) [06.02.09 23:56]: > >> This was one thing I liked about Mandrake, now Mandriva. Put in the CD, >> boot up, set up drives, select ALL the software you can stand, let it >> install and then reboot. What really made it good, when you reboot, ALL >> your software is already installed. Dang that was cool. It doesn't run >> as fast as Gentoo but if you want a Linux install in a hurry, that is >> one way to get it. Then you can use Mandrake to do your Gentoo >> install. chroot works wonderfully. Run into a problem, just go to a >> browser and search the forums etc to get help. >> >> > *Install* Mandrake, to install Gentoo? > > Where were you when Klaus invented Koppix... > At the time I had never heard of Knoppix and I am not even sure if it was around then. Also, I already had Mandrake installed. That was my first Linux. > >> All this beats winders hands down. >> >> > This surely not... > Yep, when I saw winders 3.1 and what a mess it was, I quit my puter job and went to work for a magazine company. Got out of the puter mess. I have never bought anything M$ either. I have never had anything winders on my computer either. > >> Dale >> >> > > Sebastian > > Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
* Dale (rdalek1...@gmail.com) [06.02.09 23:56]: > > This was one thing I liked about Mandrake, now Mandriva. Put in the CD, > boot up, set up drives, select ALL the software you can stand, let it > install and then reboot. What really made it good, when you reboot, ALL > your software is already installed. Dang that was cool. It doesn't run > as fast as Gentoo but if you want a Linux install in a hurry, that is > one way to get it. Then you can use Mandrake to do your Gentoo > install. chroot works wonderfully. Run into a problem, just go to a > browser and search the forums etc to get help. > *Install* Mandrake, to install Gentoo? Where were you when Klaus invented Koppix... > All this beats winders hands down. > This surely not... > Dale > Sebastian -- " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. " Karl Marx s...@sti@N GÜNTHER mailto:sam...@guenther-roetgen.de pgpRHxrx0K2Vv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2 Konsole Title
2009/2/6 Dirk Heinrichs : > Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 16:10:34 schrieb Chris Lieb: > >> I recently switched to KDE 4.2 (completely removed KDE 3.5.9 and emerge >> @kde-4.2) and fired up my system update script. I noticed right away >> that the title bar of Konsole did not update to show my progress in my >> emerge -u... world. In fact, it only showed the user name and directory >> that I was currently in. No script seemed to change the contents of the >> title bar. I noticed the same behavior in lxvt run in KDE 4.2 also. >> >> In Konsole under KDE 3.5.9, the title bar would always be controlled by >> the script that was running. Is this supposed to happen in KDE 4.2, or >> is this a bug? Yeah, I noticed the same. > It's configurable per profile. What you see is just the default behaviour. I can only find "notitles" in /etc/make.conf, there doesn't seem to be an option to switch it on. So how to get the old behaviour back? It's nice to be able to tell at a glance how much is left to do. Cheers, Hilco
[gentoo-user] Re: Multiple architectures for portage CFLAGS?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
daid kahl wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have encountered a problem maintaining my system using revdep-rebuild. I
> have both gcc-3.4.6 and gcc-4.3.2 installed on my machine. I mainly use
> gcc4, but sometimes I need g77 because many people at my laboratory use
> fortran code that is not compliant with gfortran standards.
>
> However, I have an Intel duo Core machine, so I usually have the CFLAG
> march=core2, but this is not supported in gcc3. Thus, if I need to rebuild
> gcc3 during revdep-rebuild, I have to do most of the updates by hand so that
> I can turn on an older march setting for gcc3 (such as march=nocona).
>
> Is there some way to set specfic CFLAGS for different gcc installs? Is my
> method of manually having different architectures for different gcc
> installations a risk?
>
> Regards,
> daid
>
It is possible, although unsupported, to set CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS for a
particular version of a package. The bashrc for the base profile (which
all modern profiles inherit from) will attempt to source, if they exist,
the following files:
/etc/portage/env/${CATEGORY}/${PN}
/etc/portage/env/${CATEGORY}/${PN}-${PV}
/etc/portage/env/${CATEGORY}/${PN}-${PV}-${PR}
(where for sys-devel/gcc-3.4.6-r2, CATEGORY=sys-devel, PN=gcc, PV=3.4.6,
and PR=r2 (when there is no "-r#" part, PR=r0))
In one of those files, you can export a new value for CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS.
Note that not all portage variables can be changed in this manner. (To
be precise, variables that are referenced from the parts of portage
written in bash can be changed in this manner.) Also note that if you
have 'CXXFLAGS="${CFLAGS}"' in your make.conf, this will set CXXFLAGS to
the value of CFLAGS *that is in make.conf*, so you will need to modify
CXXFLAGS as well as CFLAGS.
- --
ABCD
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Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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Re: [gentoo-user] Cannot compile libinstrudeo 0.1.4 on ~x86
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 5:09 AM, Pongracz Istvan wrote: > 2009. 02. 6, péntek keltezéssel 11.01-kor Pongracz Istvan ezt írta: >> Dear guys, >> >> Here is a snippet from the compile problem: >> >> isdffmpegexporter.cpp: In member function 'virtual void >> ISDFFmpegExporter::cleanup()': >> isdffmpegexporter.cpp:208: error: cannot convert 'ByteIOContext**' to >> 'ByteIOContext*' for argument '1' to 'int url_fclose(ByteIOContext*)' >> isdffmpegexporter.cpp: In member function 'void >> ISDFFmpegExporter::abortCleanup()': >> isdffmpegexporter.cpp:237: warning: ignoring return value of 'int >> system(const char*)', declared with attribute warn_unused_result >> distcc[28590] ERROR: compile isdffmpegexporter.cpp on localhost failed >> > > Ok, this was the easy part. I deleted the & at the code, but new compile > problem appears. > > Does anybody knows, how to compile this stuff without rewrite all the > sourcecode? > > Cheers, > István > -- > BSA. Mert megérdemlitek. > Open Source. Mert megérdemlem. > -- > BSA. They value it. > Open Source. The value. It. > -- > http://www.startit.hu > http://www.osbusiness.hu > > > Does this bug report is of any help? http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=139855 -- Andrés
Re: [gentoo-user] testing a corrupt SD card
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Paul Hartman wrote: > Good luck! In case you can't get it working reliably, Newegg has an > 8gb CF card for $19.99 & free shipping :) Oops, never mind that part, I see you're in AU not US. My mistake! I am an American after all, sometimes we forget other countries exist. ;) Paul
Re: [gentoo-user] testing a corrupt SD card
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Iain Buchanan wrote: > Hi all, > > recently my SD card just went bonkers. Unfortunately I lost a lot of > photos on it (backups are useless until the data actually gets to the > backup...) but fortunately I was able to use a program to recover about > 170 photos. > > Anyway, I don't know if it was just static, shock, dead card, or phase > of the moon, so I would like to see if the card is good before I > continue to use it. With any kind of memory or storage device, I would stop using after the first sign of a problem. My personal experience says it only gets worse. :) Lexar has a free program for recovering corrupted/deleted files from their cards, did you use that? Or something linux-based like photorec? Anyway, you wrote over it so it's too late now. :) I would try any kind of "torture test" you can think of on it. Also be sure to unmount/remove and reinsert it a few times. I have encountered cards that only work 1 out of 4 times they are inserted into the card reader, etc. Maybe the contacts are worn if it's a few years old? Some (all?) memory cards do wear-leveling/load balancing so when you write to sector 13 it might not be the same sector 13 as last time, so doing any kind of repeated error testing might be difficult. In fact, if the card detects bad spots it may simply hide them from you. There may be programmatic ways to bypass the card's wear-leveling, but I don't know how. Good luck! In case you can't get it working reliably, Newegg has an 8gb CF card for $19.99 & free shipping :) Paul
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Volker Armin Hemmann writes: > On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote: >> Volker Armin Hemmann writes: >> > and what do I, if I need to read info to be able to install emacs to read >> > info? >> >> You appear to be taking a potshot, not really adding to the >> discussion. >> >> I know you are not incapable of installing emacs and we both know you >> can read info without it quite well. So I'm left wondering why you >> add this combative post. > > easy - what if you need info to get networking working - and without > networking you can not download emacs? Once more: users can read info with the stand alone info reader just fine. (No need to install anything) Users who want a more advanced way to read info may consider using emacs. It is worth installing for many other reasons as well. Similar to using `less' for man pages instead of the default `more'. At least on many OS's Emacs is not for when you don't yet have a network. Then its not an option. Why do you continue to repeat that? > man is easy to read. Always. Info? Not. I respect your experience, talent and especially many contributions to this list. But, you present your opinions as if they are acts of nature. Its good to remember its only your opinion not a law of physics or some other indisputable fact. Further more its actually wrong too. The bash manual is not easier to read in `man' as opposed to `info'. Unless you don't know how to use info. If you do then an indexed document with a table of contents, is going to be `easier', in the sense that you will be able to navigate it better and pull in relevant comments on related matters easily. Therefore you will learn more, quicker. If all you need is a quick search for something minor you've forgotten then man will be the way to go. You will already have a good idea what to search for. >> People are discussing HTML, which of course needs some reader... I'm >> pointing out a more advanced way to use info that may appeal to some. > > less can do html just fine. None the less, a second application is required. If I recall correctly less is not part of a stage[23] install and therefore must be installed. But even if I'm wrong, and it is, and you don't have to install something, we aren't necessarily talking here about the barest bone case. You keep raising that but I've seen no one argue against man in that event. At least not me. Because man is available without a network does not mean it is always better or that one should use it exclusively with or without a network. In a `no network' situation: Once I've tried `man' and still have trouble, I use the stand alone info reader.. In other words, man is my first choice. I agree that for many things man can't be beat, but for something like the bash documentation info is vastly superior. And if you have the opportunity to use emacs to read the info documents.. that's all the better. [...] > I used xemacs in the past - which is even better. But today kate and nano > replaced it for me. Once again your opinion is presented as hard fact. My opinion is that Xemacs is NOT better and in fact is inferior in many ways, but that is for another thread... and probably not worth the effort anyway since that argument will take on religious overtones very quickly.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Roy Wright wrote: > Harry Putnam wrote: >> Dirk Heinrichs writes: >> >>> Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 22:27:12 schrieb Sebastian Günther: >>> Did you ever read anything the Windows Installer >>> What the heck is a "Windows Installer"? >>> >>> *SCNR* >>> >> >> Thirty five reboots and several hours > > > Sorry, can't resist as I am currently setting up another gentoo box. > A few reboots are kind of expected during a normal gentoo install. > > 1) after following directions need to reboot into your new system. > 2) after updating gcc to the latest and recompiling the system. > 3) after finding stupid oversight in fstab (replace ROOT,BOOT,SWAP > with real devices - embarrassed that I missed that one) > 4) while installing X and find that kernel has nvidia FB enabled. > 5) while installing kde-meta and find that kernel doesn't have HWMON > enabled. > > Admittedly #3 was oversight and the last two are optional but serve as > an example that you probably will not get your kernel config right the > first time. > > As for the hours to set up, if you include compile time for X and KDE, > several hours starts to look really optimistic for a BE-2400, even > when using distcc to a OC (3GHz) Q9300. LEt's face it, it's a two day > job to install gentoo desktop. > > The time savings come later, like trying to get HD Audio over HDMI (at > least that's my hope). Using this real world example, I originally > tried kubuntu 8.10 but that didn't have alsa 0.18 (it had 0.17 while > gentoo ~x86 has 0.19), so had to use two different package management > systems (dpkg and apt) to get their toolchain installed, then used a > third package to try to build alsa, which naturally failed. Instead > of trying to hack around with their inconsistent system, I said time > for gentoo... > > > Have fun, > Roy > > This was one thing I liked about Mandrake, now Mandriva. Put in the CD, boot up, set up drives, select ALL the software you can stand, let it install and then reboot. What really made it good, when you reboot, ALL your software is already installed. Dang that was cool. It doesn't run as fast as Gentoo but if you want a Linux install in a hurry, that is one way to get it. Then you can use Mandrake to do your Gentoo install. chroot works wonderfully. Run into a problem, just go to a browser and search the forums etc to get help. All this beats winders hands down. Dale :-) :-) P. S. Can anyone tell I hate winders? Is it obvious? LOL
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel install question
Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Roy Wright wrote: I found what I think is the instructions I used before: http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Kernel/Installing which basically say to emerge debianutils The problem I'm seeing is that "make install" is including the version number in the vmlinuz filenames: Any ideas or better instructions for getting the versionless vmlinuz files? create them once and you have them in the future. also make all modules_install install is shorter and gives you the same result. Thank you, twice...
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Harry Putnam wrote: Dirk Heinrichs writes: Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 22:27:12 schrieb Sebastian Günther: Did you ever read anything the Windows Installer What the heck is a "Windows Installer"? *SCNR* Thirty five reboots and several hours Sorry, can't resist as I am currently setting up another gentoo box. A few reboots are kind of expected during a normal gentoo install. 1) after following directions need to reboot into your new system. 2) after updating gcc to the latest and recompiling the system. 3) after finding stupid oversight in fstab (replace ROOT,BOOT,SWAP with real devices - embarrassed that I missed that one) 4) while installing X and find that kernel has nvidia FB enabled. 5) while installing kde-meta and find that kernel doesn't have HWMON enabled. Admittedly #3 was oversight and the last two are optional but serve as an example that you probably will not get your kernel config right the first time. As for the hours to set up, if you include compile time for X and KDE, several hours starts to look really optimistic for a BE-2400, even when using distcc to a OC (3GHz) Q9300. LEt's face it, it's a two day job to install gentoo desktop. The time savings come later, like trying to get HD Audio over HDMI (at least that's my hope). Using this real world example, I originally tried kubuntu 8.10 but that didn't have alsa 0.18 (it had 0.17 while gentoo ~x86 has 0.19), so had to use two different package management systems (dpkg and apt) to get their toolchain installed, then used a third package to try to build alsa, which naturally failed. Instead of trying to hack around with their inconsistent system, I said time for gentoo... Have fun, Roy
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel install question
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Roy Wright wrote: > Howdy, > > Setting up a new system and want to do the simple grub setup where I > have grub menu of: > > * Current Gentoo Kernel (/boot/vmlinuz) > * Previous Gentoo Kernel (/boot/vmlinuz.old) > * Gentoo 2.6.28-r1 (/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-gentoo-r1) > > Then when I rebuild the kernel I can use the following command: > > $ make && make modules_install && make install > > The make install should handle moving /boot/vmlinuz to /boot/vmlinuz.old > and copying the current image to /boot/vmlinuz. > > I found what I think is the instructions I used before: > >http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Kernel/Installing > > which basically say to emerge debianutils > > The problem I'm seeing is that "make install" is including the version > number in the vmlinuz filenames: > > # ls -1 /boot > System.map-2.6.28-gentoo-r1 > System.map-2.6.28-gentoo-r1.old > boot > config-2.6.28-gentoo-r1 > config-2.6.28-gentoo-r1.old > grub > vmlinuz-2.6.28-gentoo-r1 > vmlinuz-2.6.28-gentoo-r1.old > > > Any ideas or better instructions for getting the versionless vmlinuz files? create them once and you have them in the future. also make all modules_install install is shorter and gives you the same result.
Re: [gentoo-user] testing a corrupt SD card
On 6 Feb 2009, at 05:28, Iain Buchanan wrote: ... so I created a file: dd if=/dev/urandom of=Desktop/random.img bs=1024 count=500960 It has just occurred to me: In the UK you can be imprisoned for failing to provide an encryption key corresponding to this file. Stroller.
[gentoo-user] kernel install question
Howdy, Setting up a new system and want to do the simple grub setup where I have grub menu of: * Current Gentoo Kernel (/boot/vmlinuz) * Previous Gentoo Kernel (/boot/vmlinuz.old) * Gentoo 2.6.28-r1 (/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.28-gentoo-r1) Then when I rebuild the kernel I can use the following command: $ make && make modules_install && make install The make install should handle moving /boot/vmlinuz to /boot/vmlinuz.old and copying the current image to /boot/vmlinuz. I found what I think is the instructions I used before: http://www.gentoo-wiki.info/Kernel/Installing which basically say to emerge debianutils The problem I'm seeing is that "make install" is including the version number in the vmlinuz filenames: # ls -1 /boot System.map-2.6.28-gentoo-r1 System.map-2.6.28-gentoo-r1.old boot config-2.6.28-gentoo-r1 config-2.6.28-gentoo-r1.old grub vmlinuz-2.6.28-gentoo-r1 vmlinuz-2.6.28-gentoo-r1.old Any ideas or better instructions for getting the versionless vmlinuz files? TIA, Roy
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Harry Putnam wrote: > Dirk Heinrichs writes: > >> Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 22:27:12 schrieb Sebastian Günther: >> >>> Did you ever read anything the Windows Installer >> >> What the heck is a "Windows Installer"? >> >> *SCNR* >> > > Thirty five reboots and several hours Isn't it amazing that this is still true? I just brought up XP under vmware for the first time. To get through SP3 with virus protection but no applications was around 15-20 reboots. At least they are fast in vmware... - Mark
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Dirk Heinrichs writes: > Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 22:27:12 schrieb Sebastian Günther: > >> Did you ever read anything the Windows Installer > > What the heck is a "Windows Installer"? > > *SCNR* > Thirty five reboots and several hours
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Harry Putnam wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann writes: > > and what do I, if I need to read info to be able to install emacs to read > > info? > > You appear to be taking a potshot, not really adding to the > discussion. > > I know you are not incapable of installing emacs and we both know you > can read info without it quite well. So I'm left wondering why you > add this combative post. easy - what if you need info to get networking working - and without networking you can not download emacs? man is easy to read. Always. Info? Not. > > People are discussing HTML, which of course needs some reader... I'm > pointing out a more advanced way to use info that may appeal to some. less can do html just fine. > > And of course you can install emacs... for lots of reasons as I do. > Its an excellent editor in console or X. Reading info with it is just > one more of its excellent capabilities. I used xemacs in the past - which is even better. But today kate and nano replaced it for me.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 22:27:12 schrieb Sebastian Günther: > Did you ever read anything the Windows Installer What the heck is a "Windows Installer"? *SCNR* Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Volker Armin Hemmann writes: > and what do I, if I need to read info to be able to install emacs to read > info? You appear to be taking a potshot, not really adding to the discussion. I know you are not incapable of installing emacs and we both know you can read info without it quite well. So I'm left wondering why you add this combative post. People are discussing HTML, which of course needs some reader... I'm pointing out a more advanced way to use info that may appeal to some. And of course you can install emacs... for lots of reasons as I do. Its an excellent editor in console or X. Reading info with it is just one more of its excellent capabilities.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
* Nikos Chantziaras (rea...@arcor.de) [05.02.09 09:12]: > > Than I'll rephrase my statement: Gentoo would need a non-bugged GUI > installer ;) > No, Gentoo needs no GUI or CLI installer. It is very good, that if you install Gentoo for the first time, you must actually read the documentation, because it introduces you in the whole managing Gentoo stuff. What is important in the Handbook are not the commandline examples, but the surrunding text. Also you cannot just click away any defaults: Gentoo is about choise and YOU have to make the choices even when you are just installing. And you can only make good choices, when you read about them. BTW: Most of the choices have no meaningful default. What would make things easier is a fully automated installer, that just duplicates/repeat your well-thought-out choices on reinstalls or multiple installs. Something like: Her is an xml file, eat this and see you tomorrow at lunch time with a smiling SLiM. > >> Then they ran away yelling how bad this gentoo crap is that >> doesn't work at all unless you do a lot of black magic on the >> command line! "Because I want full control over my system, but >> only clicking next. The OS should read my mind!" > > I don't think anyone should care about that. Installation and maintenance > are two different things. A good GUI installer would pretty much allow you > to do the same things as the CLI installer. It's just a different > interface. And besides, installation is much more "standardized" than > actual maintenance. There's no reason why a GUI installer can't do the > same things as the CLI one. You'll just have GUI widgets instead of > text-mode characters, maybe with a lot of automation and safe defaults > thrown in. > Well, there isn't even a CLI installer. And on Gentoo I have to disagree on the fact that that installation is always the same, the very fact of kernel configuration makes it impossible to standardize anything. And Genkernel is so Un-Gentoo: If you don't know how to configure your kernel, you have chosen the wrong way at the very beginning. > Personally, even though I'm an old fart (I installed Slackware when it > first came out, used it for years), I prefer GUI installers. Installation > is *boring*. I need to do the steps manually even though they're pretty > much the same every time you install. You don't need a GUI: you need an automatic installer. > I'm OK with CLI maintenance. But for the installer I really prefer GUI. > > >> If we clear that from the beginning so everyone knows what to >> expect from gentoo AND WHAT GENTOO EXPECTS FROM YOU then that >> problem is gone. > > You don't need to make such a statement through the installer. There are > other, more suitable places for this. Like in the docs, website, or a > notice in the... installer :) > > Also, Gentoo isn't really black magic. There's no good reason why emerge > for example isn't GUI based. Or revdep-rebuild. Or layman. Or... I hope > you get the point ;) Yes, those things need a lot of work and there are no > people willing to do the task. But I'm just trying to make a point here: > the way you do maintenance in Gentoo isn't based on the traditional Unix > tools. That means, you could have GUIs for all of them. > Well, you have to have CLI, because X is not mandatory. Besides: If you want GUI, write it. It is not that hard to write a wrapper around those tools, which uses gtk or qt or whatever gui toolkit. > But I'm drifting. The installer is pretty much separated from all this. > After all, "all" it needs to do is set up stage3 and tweak the settings. > > > > GUIs for the simple things is good. Maybe CLI for the hairy stuff. > I hate GUIs. Clicking is for Apple Users... > >> Someone would argue that's too hard to start, but that's why >> we have excellent docs, mailing lists, forums and irc, with >> a very high traffic and lots of friendly people giving away >> their time for free to help you. So, whomever can't find a >> way is either too lazy or too shy to talk to the people around. >> Gentoo was never meant to win a popularity price. I prefer to >> stay without nothing at all that to have the lot of problems >> that the installer has been creating during 3 years of existence. >> It harmed the gentoo popularity (if you like that argument) >> much more than the lack of a installer. > > But popularity is good for the project. It ensures that it stays healthy, > supported and can draw in new devs. If popularity gows down, devs leave, > more bugs show up that don't get fixed, etc. > But Gentoo is for nerds. For those who know what they are doing. For the ones that what to learn what is really going on and the ones that only want those things they need, not what a maintainer thought would be useful to have. Gentoo does not need the usual computer user nor can it serve them: There is too less knowledge to make appropiate choices. This does not disclose people wh
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
and what do I, if I need to read info to be able to install emacs to read info?
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Grant Edwards writes: >> The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee >> invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman. > > Info has been around a lot longer than HTML, but I think you're > largely correct. There is entirely to much made of RMS. I don't know him personally and just a tiny bit from direct correspondence (beginning on an emacs.help list) on several occasions. I found Richard to be responsive and helpful. He cuts right to the chase and lays out the problem. On the other hand, I'm no emacs developer or even a very skilled user. But yrs of emacs use has taught me that the tools RMS has participated in are serious tools and well developed always heavy on documentation. Emacs has very good documentation in a variety of places and formats. But getting to the point about `info'. The texinfo format is an excellent one for handling text only documentation. The hyperlinking makes it easy to jump around in large documents. I recommend that people use emacs to read `info'. They work really well together and the vast arsenal of search and other tools in emacs are brought to bare in `info' reading. Once you used emacs for `info' reading the standalone `Info' reader will seem pretty primitive. One of the major advantages of `info' is that things like the bash manual are indexed allowing an `i' index search for most things. Inside emacs you press `C-h i' to get to the base list of `info' documentation... then press: `m' (which prompts you for a menu item), type in `bash ' (to get to the bash table of contents) (replace bash with NAME as needed, of course). Once inside the bash documentation you have a variety of tools at your disposal including emacs bookmarks. The `i' index search that finds things in the index and takes you to the concomitant sections is accompanied by the `s' search which searches the entire bash document for a regex. As well as the always useful `incremental search' for searching individual pages. Once you've mastered the navigation commands it is (almost) a pleasure to read documentation in `info' using emacs. Any subject referred to in the documentation is usually hyperlinked so you can review it instantly... then press `l' to return to the main documentation (or last place you were reading) There is also a whole mode for editing `info' documents... probably not so useful for reading up on a command but can be really helpful if you want to leave your own notes in there somewhere. Possibly the examples you've figured out.
Re: [gentoo-user] accessing a bash
On 05/02/2009, Jon Hardcastle wrote: > Hey guys.. random Linux question. > > If i have a bash process running on my machine that i am not 'attatched' to > is there anyway to access it and see what it is doing short of just killing > it? Take a look at app-misc/screen. Although you do need to remember to start things inside a screen to begin with.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Christopher Walters wrote: > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Christopher Walters wrote: > >> for 64-bit systems, Debian and its child Ubuntu, have packages compiled > >> to use the "generic x86_64" option, so they can be used on an AMD64 and > >> an IA64 system. In addition, all kernel options are either directly in > >> the kernel, or modules that will eventually be required by some package. > > > > ugh, sooo wrong. > > amd64/x86_64 is the same. Intels emt64 is the clone. IA64 (itanium) is a > > completly different beast. Itanium doesn't even run x86 software (well). > > They have nothing in common. > > I am well aware that AMD64 and IA64 are different, use different > instruction sets, and different kernel configurations (AMD and Intel > diverged many years ago). Perhaps I mistyped, or perhaps you misunderstood > me, but my main points remain the same. It is not cool to pick one part of > a person's message and criticize it, while ignoring the remainder of said > message. Especially when said message is supporting your points. > > Regards, > Chris because the message was wrong. You can't compile for 'generic x86_64' and have the software run on itanium.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Christopher Walters wrote: > >> for 64-bit systems, Debian and its child Ubuntu, have packages compiled to >> use the "generic x86_64" option, so they can be used on an AMD64 and an >> IA64 system. In addition, all kernel options are either directly in the >> kernel, or modules that will eventually be required by some package. > > ugh, sooo wrong. > amd64/x86_64 is the same. Intels emt64 is the clone. IA64 (itanium) is a > completly different beast. Itanium doesn't even run x86 software (well). They > have nothing in common. I am well aware that AMD64 and IA64 are different, use different instruction sets, and different kernel configurations (AMD and Intel diverged many years ago). Perhaps I mistyped, or perhaps you misunderstood me, but my main points remain the same. It is not cool to pick one part of a person's message and criticize it, while ignoring the remainder of said message. Especially when said message is supporting your points. Regards, Chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJJjJZZAAoJEIAhA8M9p9DAQGoP/1Lsc7EVsfwE7u4MRyExw4kr 3wQJkzYBUzLR8DfMH3Vf0eGgf8am59vmiJFDnOS/ko31R4weUU4Q1xOjeIwkqXjS Mlw+HzrHcMmVYk0steAXj8DLExEs8vxAPhEFWr4jvXOmL6AWtOv05cps1zYmXTbk D5UEdqsoz2RfYCj4EhcH3SPEv+Vtr7dZLc+cmjOrVlOGokywPQwsa+/oU59bLfPd 4nxqHRSNh+sc6AEYriKEHnd1svO6hCHweug/56G/DaquviEy7iy3j69pAE+IMXNM JvQC5zIcLjzKKWXu7TLA1U/TGwUDnL+btfmRZ83LqaTqNB/QcRJynm+9aJiHmRUi V7bFBUlPOWCJ8F2BQCs06EbcdEUbhzD6lTlKYAIx6SIaYjk+CJTlqal9cv9jk+is 1lPAFWmIOOgwZ9smtpuvOgtjbVllPuDI5M8rzYUixS3mDJt6wmq7NQdaPGDJe3J6 KdRxpjf7vwcBsvs+DbE9kVtUa+bHQjsA8GQ/vsGpnYCtN6RMOC+VlqjLiVXClXXs GTO40LjBkPc/kgKD18XOxe0nGg8Ozws+o0jYt8S0y1F7d33mDQjwy2nNqya3q229 FFk0W5URZfbhhBQNrK9MZyybeygk25s8XtK58CKf6hCVwcIV9adDTA07wBLDwjfu 1/zUiDVRZrGPUFq1rSMh =LkWr -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] Setting LANG/LC_ALL to html
* Frank Schwidom (schwi...@gmx.net) [06.02.09 19:43]: > On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 03:25:11PM +, AllenJB wrote: > > I want to handle html-files like UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 files. > ??? Where, why, whatfor? I still not get it. -vv More context: Any specific app, any special purpose and what's not working as you wish. > Regards > Sebastian -- " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. " Karl Marx s...@sti@N GÜNTHER mailto:sam...@guenther-roetgen.de pgpM3LXBa7K2N.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Setting LANG/LC_ALL to html
Frank Schwidom ha scritto: > On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 03:25:11PM +, AllenJB wrote: >> Frank Schwidom wrote: >>> Hi, >>> im searching for a suitable package which provides locales for html. Is >>> there any existing known package? When not, is it possible to create >>> such a package, and how? >>> Regards >> What exactly are you trying to do? >> >> LANG usually specifies the language you want software to use while LC_ALL >> usually specifies the locale settings (things like what format do you want >> long numbers in) software should use. >> >> AllenJB > > I want to handle html-files like UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 files. > You should setup unicode in your use flags, I think. m,
Re: [gentoo-user] Ctrl+c kills KOrganizer 4.2 when it should copy text
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 07:57:31PM +0200, Penguin Lover Arttu V. squawked: > On 2/6/09, Stroller wrote: > > > > On 6 Feb 2009, at 12:36, Arttu V. wrote: > >> ... > >> Any insight on where to start looking for the problem (and especially > >> solution) is most welcome, including pointing out stupid newbie > >> mistakes. I lost your original mail, so sorry if this is not threaded properly. Question: does the bug manifest itself only in KDE apps or in others? Ctrl+c should also copy to clipboard in, say, firefox, if you have it installed. Does it do the same thing? If yes: do you have another WM installed and can you try running firefox under the other WM to see if it behaves similarly? This should help figure out whether it is a KDE issue or an X issue. If you open an xterm, and hit Ctrl+c, does it reboot X (a long shot, but if it does happens, it means something else is grabbing the event and passing it up before the xterm sees it and passes it to the shell in it)? Also, what is in your ~/.xinitrc? W -- "If your're scattering a fly off an elephant, you don't worry about the mass of the elephant. But since we're physicists, lets consider the alternate example. In this case, we scatter the elephant off the fly." ~DeathMech, S. Sondhi. P-town PHY 205 Sortir en Pantoufles: up 791 days, 17:26
Re: [gentoo-user] Setting LANG/LC_ALL to html
On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 03:25:11PM +, AllenJB wrote: > Frank Schwidom wrote: >> Hi, >> im searching for a suitable package which provides locales for html. Is >> there any existing known package? When not, is it possible to create >> such a package, and how? >> Regards > What exactly are you trying to do? > > LANG usually specifies the language you want software to use while LC_ALL > usually specifies the locale settings (things like what format do you want > long numbers in) software should use. > > AllenJB I want to handle html-files like UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 files. Regards
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel config for AMD790GX/SB750
2009/2/6 Dale : > Helmut Jarausch wrote: > > > If you are booted off a Gentoo CD and possibly others as well, lspci -v > can be a real good friend. It will tell you what drivers are being used > for what. Then just find those in the kernel config and enable those. > > Dale > > :-) :-) > > lspci -v | wgetpaste (lspci -v with a pipe to wgetpaste) is also great. (Don't forget to emerge it first if it isn't installed). Then you only have to copy one link here which is easier if you have no running xserver on the machine. But as the previous posters said: There are different networking devices that are used on the mainboards with the same chipsets so we need more information. Maybe a precise name of the mainboard could also help but lspci -v is best. -- Currently developing a browsergame... http://www.p-game.de Trade - Expand - Fight Follow me at twitter! http://twitter.com/moortier
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE 4.2 Konsole Title
Am Freitag, 6. Februar 2009 16:10:34 schrieb Chris Lieb: > I recently switched to KDE 4.2 (completely removed KDE 3.5.9 and emerge > @kde-4.2) and fired up my system update script. I noticed right away > that the title bar of Konsole did not update to show my progress in my > emerge -u... world. In fact, it only showed the user name and directory > that I was currently in. No script seemed to change the contents of the > title bar. I noticed the same behavior in lxvt run in KDE 4.2 also. > > In Konsole under KDE 3.5.9, the title bar would always be controlled by > the script that was running. Is this supposed to happen in KDE 4.2, or > is this a bug? It's configurable per profile. What you see is just the default behaviour. Bye... Dirk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Ctrl+c kills KOrganizer 4.2 when it should copy text
On 2/6/09, Stroller wrote: > > On 6 Feb 2009, at 12:36, Arttu V. wrote: >> ... >> Any insight on where to start looking for the problem (and especially >> solution) is most welcome, including pointing out stupid newbie >> mistakes. > > Have you run revdep-rebuild? Yes to revdep-rebuild -i and emerge --depclean and emerge @preserved-rebuild, with revdep having run last. But yes, it's always good to check that as we are talking about Gentoo systems. :) -- Arttu V.
[gentoo-user] Re: Flash Drive Install
sean myfairpoint.net> writes: > Once you go through the steps instructed here, > http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/liveusb.xml cool > Can the live CD install be altered to work just like a normal Gentoo system? > I have managed to get my hands on a 16GB flash drive, and am thinking of > trying it out. Dunno, but give it a shot. I use 4GB CF cards with CF to ide converters, and it works like a charm. They've been up for 6 months, with no issues. Caveats: use ext2 /dev/hda1 /boot ext2noatime 1 2 /dev/hda2 noneswapsw 0 0 /dev/hda3 / ext2noatime 0 1 do not log, or use things that generate lots of writes. If you must, NFS mount a remote HD for all of that. After every emerge remove all that is not necessary from the system (examples): /use/portage/distfile and /var/tmp/portage. and /tmp. Keep the system/packages minimal. make.conf: CFLAGS="-Os -march=i586 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer" USE="-* -nls hardened ncurses ssl crypt berkdb tcpd pam perl pcre \ Notice the -Os and the -*, as they are the key. Keep room in /boot/ for several kernels, because kernel size minimization really helps performance. *LESS is better* If you are looking at a install for a workstation, google "gentoo catalyst" for ideas. If you come up with more/better tips, post back to the thread. goodluck, James
[gentoo-user] Re: Using portage through NFS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Chris Lieb wrote: > I have read the guide on gentoo-wiki about setting up portage to work > over NFS[0] and have it mostly working. I have two issues that I would > like to work out: > > 1) I use sync-eix to update portage and my overlays (via layman). I > want the client to still be able to run sync-eix, but have it only run > `emerge --metadata` (no `emerge --sync` or `layman --sync ALL`). What > do I need to change in the eix-sync.conf? (Man, that's a long man page :) ) > > Better yet, since my overlays are all in the exported NFS filesystem > (hence, the eix database would be the same across all clients), is it > possible to export my eix cache by hardlinking it into the NFS share? > If so, how do I make the client's eix use this database instead of the > one at /var/cache/eix? I got eix working by hardlinking the cache on the server into the NFS share and setting EIX_CACHEFILE in /etc/eixrc on the client to point to the mounted NFS share. All tests show that eix on both the client and server works fine after changing this. > 2) I use the buildpkg feature on both the server and the client since > the client can usually use the packages for its own installations > (getbinpkg). However, sometimes I require different use flags for the > client, but I still want to keep the package locally so I can restore it > later if I need to. I have the NFS share mounted ro to keep the client > from overwriting what is on the server, so I am guessing that portage > will throw some kind of error when it tries to save the package to disk. > > I was thinking of getting around this by using some kind of union mount. > However, I don't understand how union mounts work or if they can be > used for my situation. What I would like is to have some directory, > lets say /var/lib/portage/packages, that I union mount on top of the > exported NFS share, at /mnt/nfs_portage/packages. I noticed in the > Portage w/ SquashFS/aufs howto[1], they used aufs to create a rw layer > on top of a ro SquashFS. This sounds kind of what I want, except it > appears that aufs is memory-backed instead of disk-backed. Is this so? > The clients are all strapped for memory, so a memory-backed fs won't be > feasible. > > [0] http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Sharing_Portage_over_NFS > [1] http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Squashed_Portage_Tree After looking into aufs a little more and trying it, I discovered that, in it's current state in the sunrise overlay, cannot fulfill my requirements. The most recent version of aufs does not have support for mounting NFS filesystems (there might be a patch out there for it, but I don't know how to configure this in an ebuild), and the last version of aufs that supports NFS mounts doesn't work with newer kernels. I don't want to do UnionFS since that requires me to patch the kernel, which is more work than I have the time for. Since I don't see any other options for stackable filesystems, I think I'll just set the clients to not produce binpackages and wait for UnionFS to get into the kernel or the Gentoo patchset. Chris Lieb -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJJjGwWAAoJEJWxx7fgsD+CxlcIAJwnlPvibmcdMGW/eNyaekYe U1aGhsi09DoMU43aicKXNQ8p/rC2qwqXfocaxSXiBc4rrkrNpFhfTzPCDjwlhOSb 6fLtBpY7xo3m8CgP+g/Sv2tLFs4T/Gx4EqZ3TxfJh/xnvgUtFdlry+1BDqLPMsnl XMJ5zetuJYZiOujoL4ZG8dS4Od0rVkomKegV0kP5pdiUbcdUN3tNMGMpa4pLvuIA 5DJtUfZk3Iyi5CyEqB/zNlUCmNS9z2hXHNw9y3pOVDQoeSCiufo+fGE8pUr6wXr9 sOy6EmmPvO5NQN/Z244smeWCgP8wNG6YSWEZik3lLU3Edw23VdeWA9KhOgNXAiQ= =ypMH -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On 2009-02-06, Saphirus Sage wrote: >>> I'd wager to think that if we did use HTML, we'd simply argue >>> about the order of it's presentation or use of bold and >>> underlines. >>> >> >> And let's not forget Flashing Text! (shudder). >> >> > Oh no, it's 1999's geocities all over again! Yeah, I'd rather not see > man or info come to that...well, at least man. If the HTML was automatically generated from some somewhat restricted source format (docbook, texinfo, nroff, etc.) then we could probably avoid the worst of the atrocities. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I demand IMPUNITY! at visi.com
[gentoo-user] Re: testing a corrupt SD card
Iain Buchanan netspace.net.au> writes: > Does that mean my memory card is good to go, or should I use some other > method of bad sector detection? Hello Iain, Hard to tell. Even repeated memory tests may/maynot find your gremlin, i.e. bad memory. Also, just because it failed once, does not mean the mem/card is bad. Transients occur giving false bit readings. Sometimes you can delve into how the memory is actually made, but, most vendors protect that info, with NDA and such, mostly smoke screens. Here are a couple of links for your perusal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDHC http://www.sandisk.com/Assets/File/OEM/Manuals/SD_SDIO_specsv1.pdf Sorry, there is not a clear answer. Keep it for non critical needs, upgrade to SDHC(fat 32) if your equipment supports that format. Fat 32 on top of the memory, helps with (bit)error masking with some enhance (undocumented) feature not part of fat 32. This is what makes reverse engineering, complicated on SD memory. You may need to upgrade the firmware of your equipment to support newer SD standards (SD 1.1 and SD 2.0). Good luck and good hunting (mate). James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2009-02-06, Saphirus Sage wrote: > > > Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on > just about anything, searched and either split into chapters > or presented as a single page. > The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman. >>> Info has been around a lot longer than HTML, but I think you're >>> largely correct. >>> >> I'd wager to think that if we did use HTML, we'd simply argue >> about the order of it's presentation or use of bold and >> underlines. >> > > And let's not forget Flashing Text! (shudder). > > Oh no, it's 1999's geocities all over again! Yeah, I'd rather not see man or info come to that...well, at least man.
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On 2009-02-06, Saphirus Sage wrote: Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on just about anything, searched and either split into chapters or presented as a single page. >>> >>> The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee >>> invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman. >> >> Info has been around a lot longer than HTML, but I think you're >> largely correct. > > I'd wager to think that if we did use HTML, we'd simply argue > about the order of it's presentation or use of bold and > underlines. And let's not forget Flashing Text! (shudder). -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! ... I see TOILET at SEATS ... visi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel config for AMD790GX/SB750
Helmut Jarausch wrote: > Hi, > > does anybody know how to configure the kernel for a machine with > AMD790GX/SB750 chipsets? > > Especially what to specify for > > SATA > Audio > network device > > > Many thanks for a hint or pointer. > Helmut. > > If you are booted off a Gentoo CD and possibly others as well, lspci -v can be a real good friend. It will tell you what drivers are being used for what. Then just find those in the kernel config and enable those. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Feb 6, 2009, at 9:27 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2009-02-06, Alan McKinnon wrote: On Friday 06 February 2009 15:29:21 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:58:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if you don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over quickly. The kde ioslave for info makes this somewhat tolerable. At least you move around in a webpage-like environment that feels familiar. Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on just about anything, searched and either split into chapters or presented as a single page. The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman. Info has been around a lot longer than HTML, but I think you're largely correct. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! LBJ, LBJ, how many at JOKES did you tell today??! visi.com I'd wager to think that if we did use HTML, we'd simply argue about the order of it's presentation or use of bold and underlines.
Re: [gentoo-user] Ctrl+c kills KOrganizer 4.2 when it should copy text
On 6 Feb 2009, at 12:36, Arttu V. wrote: ... Any insight on where to start looking for the problem (and especially solution) is most welcome, including pointing out stupid newbie mistakes. Have you run revdep-rebuild? Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On 6 Feb 2009, at 13:29, Neil Bothwick wrote: ... Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on just about anything, searched and either split into chapters or presented as a single page. AIUI info pages are compiled from Texinfo source and thus can be automagically produced in other formats, including HTML. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Setting LANG/LC_ALL to html
Frank Schwidom wrote: Hi, im searching for a suitable package which provides locales for html. Is there any existing known package? When not, is it possible to create such a package, and how? Regards What exactly are you trying to do? LANG usually specifies the language you want software to use while LC_ALL usually specifies the locale settings (things like what format do you want long numbers in) software should use. AllenJB
[gentoo-user] KDE 4.2 Konsole Title
I recently switched to KDE 4.2 (completely removed KDE 3.5.9 and emerge @kde-4.2) and fired up my system update script. I noticed right away that the title bar of Konsole did not update to show my progress in my emerge -u... world. In fact, it only showed the user name and directory that I was currently in. No script seemed to change the contents of the title bar. I noticed the same behavior in lxvt run in KDE 4.2 also. In Konsole under KDE 3.5.9, the title bar would always be controlled by the script that was running. Is this supposed to happen in KDE 4.2, or is this a bug? Thanks, Chris Lieb
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On 2009-02-06, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > except that info is horrible. I hate info. If you don't know > exactly what you are looking for, you are lost. And you can > never sure in which part they hid the information you are > looking for. Oh - and the navigation? A nightmare. Exaclty! > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. Yes! > You can easily search them and if you don't know what you are > looking for you can glanze them over quickly. > > I hate info. I'm glad I'm not the only one. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Well, O.K. at I'll compromise with my visi.comprinciples because of EXISTENTIAL DESPAIR!
Re: [gentoo-user] Ctrl+c kills KOrganizer 4.2 when it should copy text
On Friday 06 February 2009 12:36:37 Arttu V. wrote: > Any insight on where to start looking for the problem (and especially > solution) is most welcome, including pointing out stupid newbie > mistakes. Well, you did ask |-) I think I'd start by looking for -C assignment in kxkb. A quick way to do that would be to try assigning it and see if it objects because of an existing assignment. -- Rgds Peter
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On 2009-02-06, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 06 February 2009 15:29:21 Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:58:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: >> > > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if >> > > you don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over >> > > quickly. >> > >> > The kde ioslave for info makes this somewhat tolerable. At least you >> > move around in a webpage-like environment that feels familiar. >> >> Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on just about >> anything, searched and either split into chapters or presented as a single >> page. > > The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee > invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman. Info has been around a lot longer than HTML, but I think you're largely correct. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! LBJ, LBJ, how many at JOKES did you tell today??! visi.com
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On 2009-02-06, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 08:17:46 +0100 (CET), Jesús Guerrero wrote: > >> Well, in that sense, ALL the man pages of for anything that's more >> complext than ls will be horrible. There's no way to can shorten >> it unless you take features off from bash. It's a very powerful >> shell. >> >> Same goes for my other example: fvwm. > > And for mplayer/mencoder. The problem is that man pages are > single pages and therefore only suitable for fairly short > documents. The alternative, as used by zsh, is to split the > information into several man pages, then you never know which > one to look at. procmail is a good example of how to do this > badly, with procmailrc's documentation being split across > three man pages. > > That's why info is a much better format for complex or > multipurpose programs. That's one opinion, but I think info very difficult to use. I much prefer a single page. Stuff in info is always broken up into pieces that are way too small. Whatever organization there is supposed to be in info is impossible to perceive while you're looking at a page, and it's way to easy to end up in documentation for something completely unrelated. > You'd expect to find a list of contents, chapters and an index > in a printed reference book, electronic documentation should > be no different. Perhaps, but I think info is an awful implementation. A single large man page is much better, and a single large html page with links in it is far, far, better. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! HELLO, everybody, at I'm a HUMAN!! visi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:58:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if > > > you don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over > > > quickly. > > > > The kde ioslave for info makes this somewhat tolerable. At least you > > move around in a webpage-like environment that feels familiar. > > Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on just about > anything, searched and either split into chapters or presented as a single > page. because gnu is too l33t for html?
[gentoo-user] Setting LANG/LC_ALL to html
Hi, im searching for a suitable package which provides locales for html. Is there any existing known package? When not, is it possible to create such a package, and how? Regards
Re: [gentoo-user] Ctrl+c kills KOrganizer 4.2 when it should copy text
On 2/6/09, Sebastian Günther wrote: > Some application does not capture ctrl+c, which is normaly the interupt > shortcut in bash. So it surely is passed down to bash which intrupts > startx, since it is the active job. > > I bet it won't happen with any Xsession started from any *dm. Thanks for the tip. I tried adding xdm to default runlevel and rebooted. Logging in from the kde(?) graphical login screen and pressing ctrl+c in korganizer then resulted in screen flickering via text mode back into the kde(?) login screen. So the same seems to happen there. Well, actually a bit worse: no user can login after that any more, later login attempts will flicker straight back into the login screen. > If it's possible then please test this, anyway you should pinpoint down, > where else it is possible to kill your Xsession, so that you can file a > bugreport to the right people. Will do. Deep inside I was hoping that it would be just some configuration issue I had missed. I'm currently browsing through all the "ctrl+something" bugs in bugs.kde.org and will either find something or squeeze a dump with debug info for a new one. -- Arttu V.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Friday 06 February 2009 15:29:21 Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:58:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if > > > you don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over > > > quickly. > > > > The kde ioslave for info makes this somewhat tolerable. At least you > > move around in a webpage-like environment that feels familiar. > > Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on just about > anything, searched and either split into chapters or presented as a single > page. The cynic in me says that it's because Tim Berners-Lee invented HTML, not Richard M Stallman. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 14:58:56 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if > > you don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over > > quickly. > > The kde ioslave for info makes this somewhat tolerable. At least you > move around in a webpage-like environment that feels familiar. Which begs the question, why not use HTML? It can be read on just about anything, searched and either split into chapters or presented as a single page. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Using portage through NFS
On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:16:36 -0600 Chris Lieb wrote: > 1) I use sync-eix to update portage and my overlays (via layman). I > want the client to still be able to run sync-eix, but have it only run > `emerge --metadata` (no `emerge --sync` or `layman --sync ALL`). What > do I need to change in the eix-sync.conf? (Man, that's a long man page :) ) You can use cluster-aware filesystems like GFS2 / OCFS2 to do anything you like on any end, without having to worry about any inconsistency on the other end. That way you can do 'emerge --sync' or edit some overlay ebuild on any end, seeing all the changes real-time on the other. > 2) I use the buildpkg feature on both the server and the client since > the client can usually use the packages for its own installations > (getbinpkg). However, sometimes I require different use flags for the > client, but I still want to keep the package locally so I can restore it > later if I need to. I have the NFS share mounted ro to keep the client > from overwriting what is on the server, so I am guessing that portage > will throw some kind of error when it tries to save the package to disk. Prehaps you should just 'mount /some/dev /usr/portage/packages' on each machine, after you've mounted shared /usr/portage FS, so you'll have unique packages on each server. And if you'll need to copy some new packages from one machine to the other without overwriting any of locally-compiled ones - you can just use rsync, via cron, if it's kinda constant need. -- Mike Kazantsev // fraggod.net signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Ctrl+c kills KOrganizer 4.2 when it should copy text
* Arttu V. (arttu...@gmail.com) [06.02.09 13:37]: > Hello, > > > For example, KOrganizer edit menus still show shortcuts for copy, > paste, etc as ctrl+something (ctrl+c for copy). However, when I'm > adding a new event or todo and press ctrl+c to copy some text around > -- boom, X closes itself and I'm back to the text console (I use > startx from the text console, not graphical login screens). > Some application does not capture ctrl+c, which is normaly the interupt shortcut in bash. So it surely is passed down to bash which intrupts startx, since it is the active job. I bet it won't happen with any Xsession started from any *dm. If it's possible then please test this, anyway you should pinpoint down, where else it is possible to kill your Xsession, so that you can file a bugreport to the right people. Sebastian -- " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. " Karl Marx s...@sti@N GÜNTHER mailto:sam...@guenther-roetgen.de pgpu1ZKOqzjA9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Alan McKinnon wrote: > On Friday 06 February 2009 14:36:12 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > except that info is horrible. I hate info. If you don't know exactly what > > you are looking for, you are lost. And you can never sure in which part > > they hid the information you are looking for. Oh - and the navigation? A > > nightmare. > > > > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if you > > don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over quickly. > > The kde ioslave for info makes this somewhat tolerable. At least you move > around in a webpage-like environment that feels familiar. usually when I need the 'help' of info pages stuff like X is not available
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Friday 06 February 2009 14:36:12 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > except that info is horrible. I hate info. If you don't know exactly what > you are looking for, you are lost. And you can never sure in which part > they hid the information you are looking for. Oh - and the navigation? A > nightmare. > > I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if you > don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over quickly. The kde ioslave for info makes this somewhat tolerable. At least you move around in a webpage-like environment that feels familiar. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] kernel config for AMD790GX/SB750
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Helmut Jarausch wrote: > Hi, > > does anybody know how to configure the kernel for a machine with > AMD790GX/SB750 chipsets? > > Especially what to specify for > > SATA AHCI. Please set ahci mode in bios. > Audio repends on the chip used. Probably a hda realtek. In that case: hda_intel. > network device depends on the chip used.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Christopher Walters wrote: > for 64-bit systems, Debian and its child Ubuntu, have packages compiled to > use the "generic x86_64" option, so they can be used on an AMD64 and an > IA64 system. In addition, all kernel options are either directly in the > kernel, or modules that will eventually be required by some package. ugh, sooo wrong. amd64/x86_64 is the same. Intels emt64 is the clone. IA64 (itanium) is a completly different beast. Itanium doesn't even run x86 software (well). They have nothing in common.
[gentoo-user] Ctrl+c kills KOrganizer 4.2 when it should copy text
Hello, I'm currently googling around for some insight into an extremely annoying feature (or a bug?) which appeared with KDE 4.2, and/or the xorg-server upgrade to 1.5.3-r2 that I did along with the kde upgrade. The problem reveals itself when I press ctrl+c in some KDE applications and that it turn kills/exits kde/X. For example, KOrganizer edit menus still show shortcuts for copy, paste, etc as ctrl+something (ctrl+c for copy). However, when I'm adding a new event or todo and press ctrl+c to copy some text around -- boom, X closes itself and I'm back to the text console (I use startx from the text console, not graphical login screens). Last time that happened was 15 minutes ago. Sometimes the crash takes keyboard and mouse with it so that even the text console doesn't have them any more (wtf?). So, maybe this has something to do with the new evdev? Or klipper the copy-paster utility? Anyway, system messages and Xorg.logs don't indicate any error there, latter just reports that evdev modules got cleanly unloaded. I think the same has been happening at least with Konqueror and Kmail as well, not sure about other apps, since I haven't done any rigorous tests across kde apps, just tried to use the ones I'm used to. Any insight on where to start looking for the problem (and especially solution) is most welcome, including pointing out stupid newbie mistakes. I hadn't had to modify xorg.conf for nearly three years (IIRC) until the new, shiny and "better" evdev-stuff in new xorg-server required me to re-hack the conf file to get my keyboard and USB-mouse to be recognized at all. Thanks in advance! -- Arttu V.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Freitag 06 Februar 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 08:17:46 +0100 (CET), Jesús Guerrero wrote: > > Well, in that sense, ALL the man pages of for anything that's more > > complext than ls will be horrible. There's no way to can shorten > > it unless you take features off from bash. It's a very powerful > > shell. > > > > Same goes for my other example: fvwm. > > And for mplayer/mencoder. The problem is that man pages are single pages > and therefore only suitable for fairly short documents. The alternative, > as used by zsh, is to split the information into several man pages, then > you never know which one to look at. procmail is a good example of how to > do this badly, with procmailrc's documentation being split across > three man pages. > > That's why info is a much better format for complex or multipurpose > programs. You'd expect to find a list of contents, chapters and an > index in a printed reference book, electronic documentation should be > no different. except that info is horrible. I hate info. If you don't know exactly what you are looking for, you are lost. And you can never sure in which part they hid the information you are looking for. Oh - and the navigation? A nightmare. I prefer man. Even huge manpages. You can easily search them and if you don't know what you are looking for you can glanze them over quickly. I hate info.
[gentoo-user] Wacom Serial Digitizer ll UD-0608-R, Help
Hello all, I have the above tablet and have been trying to get it working with Gentoo. The problem seems to be that the kernel driver is USB and all instructions I can find seem to concentrate on the USB versions of Wacom products. I am using: Portage 2.1.6.4 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0/desktop, gcc-4.1.2, glibc-2.6.1-r0, 2.6.26-gentoo-r4 x86_64) = System uname: Linux-2.6.26-gentoo-r4-x86_64-AMD_Athlon-tm-_64_X2_Dual_Core_Processor_4600+-with-glibc2.2.5 Has anybody got one of these old tablets working? Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks for your time Paul -- This message has been sent using kmail with gentoo linux
[gentoo-user] kernel config for AMD790GX/SB750
Hi, does anybody know how to configure the kernel for a machine with AMD790GX/SB750 chipsets? Especially what to specify for SATA Audio network device Many thanks for a hint or pointer. Helmut. -- Helmut Jarausch Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik RWTH - Aachen University D 52056 Aachen, Germany
[gentoo-user] Partially solved: Cannot compile libinstrudeo 0.1.4 on ~x86
2009. 02. 6, péntek keltezéssel 11.09-kor Pongracz Istvan ezt írta: > 2009. 02. 6, péntek keltezéssel 11.01-kor Pongracz Istvan ezt írta: > > > > Ok, this was the easy part. I deleted the & at the code, but new compile > problem appears. > > Does anybody knows, how to compile this stuff without rewrite all the > sourcecode? > > Cheers, > István Ok, seems I fixed all problems and I succeed to compile. The question will be, will it work or not? :) Cheers, IStván -- BSA. Mert megérdemlitek. Open Source. Mert megérdemlem. -- BSA. They value it. Open Source. The value. It. -- http://www.startit.hu http://www.osbusiness.hu
Re: [gentoo-user] Cannot compile libinstrudeo 0.1.4 on ~x86
2009. 02. 6, péntek keltezéssel 11.01-kor Pongracz Istvan ezt írta: > Dear guys, > > Here is a snippet from the compile problem: > > isdffmpegexporter.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void > ISDFFmpegExporter::cleanup()’: > isdffmpegexporter.cpp:208: error: cannot convert ‘ByteIOContext**’ to > ‘ByteIOContext*’ for argument ‘1’ to ‘int url_fclose(ByteIOContext*)’ > isdffmpegexporter.cpp: In member function ‘void > ISDFFmpegExporter::abortCleanup()’: > isdffmpegexporter.cpp:237: warning: ignoring return value of ‘int > system(const char*)’, declared with attribute warn_unused_result > distcc[28590] ERROR: compile isdffmpegexporter.cpp on localhost failed > Ok, this was the easy part. I deleted the & at the code, but new compile problem appears. Does anybody knows, how to compile this stuff without rewrite all the sourcecode? Cheers, István -- BSA. Mert megérdemlitek. Open Source. Mert megérdemlem. -- BSA. They value it. Open Source. The value. It. -- http://www.startit.hu http://www.osbusiness.hu
[gentoo-user] Cannot compile libinstrudeo 0.1.4 on ~x86
Dear guys, After a long time, I try to use again screenkast + libinstrudeo. Ages before I did use it but nowadays (about in the last 6 months or more) I cannot compile libinstrudeo because there are some compiling problem. These packages are in the sunrise overlay. So, I guess there is a problem between the libinstrudeo and ffmpeg libraries. Here is a snippet from the compile problem: isdffmpegexporter.cpp: In member function ‘virtual void ISDFFmpegExporter::cleanup()’: isdffmpegexporter.cpp:208: error: cannot convert ‘ByteIOContext**’ to ‘ByteIOContext*’ for argument ‘1’ to ‘int url_fclose(ByteIOContext*)’ isdffmpegexporter.cpp: In member function ‘void ISDFFmpegExporter::abortCleanup()’: isdffmpegexporter.cpp:237: warning: ignoring return value of ‘int system(const char*)’, declared with attribute warn_unused_result distcc[28590] ERROR: compile isdffmpegexporter.cpp on localhost failed Before I write more stupid logs etc. to here, I would like to ask does anybody succeed to install libinstrudeo for his recent gentoo box? ~x86 Best regards, István -- BSA. Mert megérdemlitek. Open Source. Mert megérdemlem. -- BSA. They value it. Open Source. The value. It. -- http://www.startit.hu http://www.osbusiness.hu
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 11:11:07 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > If Grandma can easily use Google to find new shortcake recipes (an > entirely reasonable thing for Grandma to do in this day and age), then > it is not unreasonable for savvy users to have a look at the man page > and say > > "Oh look, this is a technical doc. Let me ask Google where better docs > are" There are two drawbacks to this. First you need Internet access, not so good if you need help with ifconfig or route, or you are using your laptop on a train. Secondly, the Internet is full of useful advice, and some of it is even accurate. Only documentation supplied with the package can be assumed to be correct and up to date. -- Neil Bothwick When you said you wanted to live in sin, I didn't know you meant "sloth" signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Friday 06 February 2009 10:57:51 Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 07:46:02 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > Man pages are mostly written as reference documents. Like technical > > specs, they tend to list the capabilities of the app without giving the > > "bigger picture overview" as that is assumed to be known. > > That's right,they tend to assume that you already know what you want > to do and are just a means of finding the syntax to do it. The problem is > that for most software, they are the only documentation provided. And in the true open-source tradition, where the supplied documentation (aka man pages) is inadequate, someone else will write better documentation, or howtos, or publish "Dummies Guide to $ARB_APP" and let Google figure out where it is. If Grandma can easily use Google to find new shortcake recipes (an entirely reasonable thing for Grandma to do in this day and age), then it is not unreasonable for savvy users to have a look at the man page and say "Oh look, this is a technical doc. Let me ask Google where better docs are" ... -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Mike Edenfield wrote: > On 2/5/2009 7:01 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > >> no. He is an idiot if he does not read the docs. Simple. Like people >> who don't >> read the manual to their car or vcr and then complaining if something >> does not >> work. Idiots. > > "They should read the manual" is *not* a valid design goal for a system. > At best, it's a justification or rationalization when outside > constraints force a design to be non-intuitive. > > Given the choice between two otherwise equally functional systems (of > any sort -- electronic, mechanical, digital, etc); if one requires me to > spend extensive time reading an instruction manual to use and the other > is designed to be easy to use out of the box -- the "idiot" is the > person wasting their time reading instead of being productive. To use > your own example, I have no problem figuring out how to start my car, > turn on the A/C, tune my radio, and drive to work without reading the > automobile manual. I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with you on this issue. If you don't read your car's manual, you'll have no idea what kind of maintenance schedule that is recommended by the maker of the car, nor will you know what the appropriate tire pressure is, and the recommended tires for your car. Of course, if you plan to do your own maintenance on your car, you'll need not only the manual, but also a technical manual and some tools, as well as a garage. Gentoo provides the tools and the equivalent of the manual and technical manual, and you provide the "garage" (the hard drive) and "car" (the memory, CPU, etc.) It is up to you how you use those tools, and if you feel you shouldn't have to read the docs to have a working distro, then maybe you should consider Ubuntu or something similar, where no reading is really required, and no familiarity with programming is needed. Sorry, but it just had to be said. I believe that Gentoo was made for programmers and others who wish to tinker "under the hood" to make a better, faster and more efficient distro suited to their needs. I have absolutely NO problem reading the docs, looking at source code, and the like, since these thing help me to learn more. The thing that separates Gentoo from other metadistributions (kudos to the person who first coined this term), is that Gentoo has a relatively large number of maintainers who write patches to fix bugs, test new versions of packages, and new packages for stability on a range of different systems, set up USE flags for each new version or package, and so on. So long as you know the system, and know one or more programming languages, you can also submit packages, patches and ebuilds for consideration, or just use them on your system. Real speed improvements may be achieved, if and only if, you know how a package is coded, gcc compiler options, and linker flags, and so long as you have optimized the kernel for *your* system, as well as the system libc (glibc for Gentoo). The compiler and linker will only do what you have told them. As has already been stated in this debate, the main benefits of Gentoo over binary distros are the virtually endless configurability, and being able to merge a package without a ton of additional "required" packages that you neither need nor want. In contrast, the binary distributions are compiled with all package options on (this can pull in hundreds of unnecessary packages, just for the want of one), and for maximum usability on just about any system: Case in point, for 64-bit systems, Debian and its child Ubuntu, have packages compiled to use the "generic x86_64" option, so they can be used on an AMD64 and an IA64 system. In addition, all kernel options are either directly in the kernel, or modules that will eventually be required by some package. While it is possible to get the source and compile packages yourself, these distributions don't exactly make it easy. They are geared to people who don't want to read the docs - who want something that will set up a desktop environment "out of the box". They are not geared to people who want to tinker around "under the hood" (to keep the car analogy going). JMHO. Oh, and one final question, and observation. Observation: Anyone who tries to fly an airplane (or repair one) without reading the docs, assuming no flight experience, is truly an idiot, and a dangerous one, at that. I think that it is better to compare Gentoo to an airplane than to a car or a VCR. Although both of the latter are certainly complex, they in no way come close to the complexity of aircraft. Whether your Gentoo will be a single engine propeller plane, or a fast jet is up to you... Again, JMHO. Regards, Chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJJi/yMAAoJEIAhA8M9p9DAjzkP/0pJ0eEVSDW1u1mcGCMrvTck +FXPob9XWwjJHlfitGV6AZPXv+QJqBbIZYdxw+eT+Vhq2Th98pvZTK23yojhE8/1 yiLwHd7ujioSBpO4EQz/plTKQBAcRTvxZPBYO/clehcOM8SO4LB6N78BPsDdqH8b /
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 07:46:02 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: > Man pages are mostly written as reference documents. Like technical > specs, they tend to list the capabilities of the app without giving the > "bigger picture overview" as that is assumed to be known. That's right,they tend to assume that you already know what you want to do and are just a means of finding the syntax to do it. The problem is that for most software, they are the only documentation provided. -- Neil Bothwick EMail - garbage at the speed of light. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo's advantage: 'optimized for your system' -- huh?
On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 08:17:46 +0100 (CET), Jesús Guerrero wrote: > Well, in that sense, ALL the man pages of for anything that's more > complext than ls will be horrible. There's no way to can shorten > it unless you take features off from bash. It's a very powerful > shell. > > Same goes for my other example: fvwm. And for mplayer/mencoder. The problem is that man pages are single pages and therefore only suitable for fairly short documents. The alternative, as used by zsh, is to split the information into several man pages, then you never know which one to look at. procmail is a good example of how to do this badly, with procmailrc's documentation being split across three man pages. That's why info is a much better format for complex or multipurpose programs. You'd expect to find a list of contents, chapters and an index in a printed reference book, electronic documentation should be no different. -- Neil Bothwick The sooner you fall behind the more time you'll have to catch up. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE4.2 compile problem
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Dirk Uys wrote: > Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. > > I am currently waiting for "emerge -DuvaNe systemsettings" to finish, > Ill keep the list up to date on my success. > > Regards > Dirk > Even re-emerging half of my system didn't resolve the problem. I feel like I should file a bug, but it doens't seem like it is something that will be easy to reproduce on any other machine but mine. Regards Dirk
