Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[David Rosenbaum]

Dave

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022, 11:42 AM Dale  wrote:

> Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale  wrote:
> >
> > Mark Knecht wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale  wrote:
> >
> > > I
> > > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be
> > > interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM
> > > instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that one.
>  o_O
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a
> > storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas
> > put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
> > of indirection?
> >
> > If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy
> > of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might
> > be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box
> > to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is
> > different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought
> > this thread was about. What am I not remembering?
> >
> > - Mark
> >
> >
> > It's more about me being more used to using LVM.  Also, more used to
> Linux as well.  BSD is not something I have much experience with and until
> recently, none with ZFS.  Even the little experience I have with BSD was
> well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.  I barely remember it really.
> >
> > By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I'm familiar with
> and less likely to mess up things.  Things get messed up enough without
> adding more confusion.  ;-)
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-)  :-)
>
> Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system.
> LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system.
> My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions
> on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5.
>
>
> That is true.  Thing is, I've learned how to manage LVM even with
> encrypted data.  I've also learned how to expand storage without losing
> data or getting confused about what I'm doing.  To me, using LVM is pretty
> easy given the notes I have for the tasks I do most often.
>
>
> You may or may not know this but TrueNAS is available as a
> Linux version:
>
> https://www.truenas.com/blog/first-release-of-truenas-on-linux/
>
> I don't recommend it. It's new. Let someone else figure it out. However
> it might be more to your liking, and because it's Linux you'd be more
> comfortable messing it up. ;0-
>
> WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly
> you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages
> 30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value.
> Instead you might just consider relaxing and letting the system
> take care of itself. In the last year I've only updated my TrueNAS box
> twice that I can remember.
>
> On the other hand if system tweaking is what brings you joy then
> Que Sera Sera .
>
> Good luck,
> Mark
>
>
>
> It's not that I want to compile things, it's that I want to use things I'm
> already really familiar with.  If I bought a Raspberry Pi and built a NAS
> with it, I don't care if I compile the software on it or not as long as it
> has the software I need or I can install what I need.  From what I've read,
> compiling on a Raspberry isn't much fun.  It's very time consuming. Having
> a OS, binary one at that, that is Linux based is a big plus.  I can run
> LVM, cryptsetup and such in likely every Linux distro out there and get the
> same result as on my Gentoo box.  Switching to BSD, using ZFS, means I have
> to learn a whole new set of tools and methods.  I had enough fun learning
> LVM and I don't think LVM is going to die anytime soon.  It should be
> around for the foreseeable future.  As it is, even now, I still don't get
> how ZFS works.  I just followed a guide to get it working, sort of.  It's
> still not encrypted.  Figuring that out is next.  That should be fun.
>
> My network card is out for delivery.  A few days late but better than
> never I guess.  I'll see if the drivers needed for it are available as
> modules or not.  I suspect they are tho based on info in this thread.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Wol]

On 17/12/2022 20:03, Mark Knecht wrote:

I'm just asking what's the purpose of doing LVM, or your
suggested layering, specifically on a storage pool for a
home user like Dale? That's the part I don't understand,
especially for a new NAS user like Dale?


From my POV, snapshots, in-place short-term backups, it's just flexible.

Actually, my main use of lvm is on my system partition - take a 
snapshot, emerge @world, make sure everything is okay ...


What I *thought* I wanted it for was my /home partition - my wife is 
forever losing stuff, getting muddled and what have you. But I don't 
think snapshotting would actually protect against what she does :-(


But the ability to snapshot anything where you think you might be doing 
something dangerous is just great - it means you can revert a disaster...


And below that, integrity/raid? Well raid protects against a drive 
failure, integrity protects against disk corruption. They're all 
unlikely events, but I've got loads of disk space, a powerful system, 
and I don't stress it, so I've got power to spare for it.


Cheers,
Wol

Re:[SOLVED] [gentoo-user] X2go - connect to XFCE desktop - grey screen

[thelma]

On 12/17/22 15:18, Mark Knecht wrote:



On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 2:17 PM mailto:the...@sys-concept.com>> wrote:
 >
 > On 12/16/22 22:52, the...@sys-concept.com  
wrote:
 > > I recently upgraded remote computer and whey trying to connect via X2go 
with XFCE session produces just grey screen and it is hard to terminate the session.
 > >
 > > When I select "Connect to local Desktop" (remote computer is running XFCE) 
the connection works.
 > >
 > > The remote and local computer running same version of x2go:
 > > net-misc/x2goclient-4.1.2.2-r1
 > > net-misc/x2goserver-4.1.0.3-r1
 >
 > When XFCE session is selected in I get grey screen and in the session log I 
see:
 > ...
 > Loop: WARNING! Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'. Assuming agent 
session.
 > Warning: Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'. Assuming agent 
session.
 > ...
 >
 > It seems to me it is trying to force KDE session instead of XFCE.
 >
 > Any solutions?

There are many discussion in Google around the line

Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'

and differences in libraries. Have you studied those?


The problematic is new: x11-libs/libwnck-43.0

It needs to be patched with:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/libwnck/-/merge_requests/47/diffs.patch

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:10 PM Wol  > wrote:
> 
> > Do you want the system layered, with each layer doing one job? Use
> > dm-integrity to protect against corruption, raid to join the disks, lvm
> > to partition them, and ext to manage the directories and files.
> >
> > I do the latter ...
>
> No argument there, at least on a group of drives where you 
> want to have flexibility in the future. Desktop computers or
> system drives certainly. You didn't tell me what replaces
> the compression aspect of the problem but I'm sure there's
> something. It's a great strategy if you have the expertise and
> time to set it up and then manage it when a problem arises,
> if it ever arises. 
>
> I'm just asking what's the purpose of doing LVM, or your
> suggested layering, specifically on a storage pool for a 
> home user like Dale? That's the part I don't understand, 
> especially for a new NAS user like Dale?
>
> Mark
>
>
>

My reasoning is simple, I'm already familiar with LVM and how to manage
it.  While I swap drives on my Gentoo rig pretty regular lately, I don't
want to be limited from doing that on a NAS either.  If for example I
want to replace a 10TB drive with a 16TB drive, LVM makes that easy and
I know how to do it already.  With ZFS tho, is that even doable and if
it is, do I want to learn to do it with a new tool?  From what I've
seen, I'm not even sure you can do that.  It seems you can expand by
adding a drive but not replace or shrink. 

As a example.  I went back to a basic pool of two drives.  I then
recreated a dataset, or whatever it is called, and added for it to be
encrypted.  Since I did that, I get write errors.  I can mount it just
fine but that's it.  I have no idea what the cause is, google isn't
helping and to be honest, I'm thinking about target practice for the
thing.  It took me a good long while to set up the most basic thing. 
Adding encryption shouldn't be hard but apparently, it is more difficult
than I thought.  That or its so secure even I can't use it even with the
password.  lol 

This is what I like about LVM and cryptsetup.  I create a partition, or
use a whole drive, as needed.  I use cryptsetup to start the process
with one drive.  I then put ext4 on top of that.  Then I add a second
drive to that pv, add that to the volume group, extend the file system,
all done.  And it is encrypted as well.  If I need to move from one
drive to say a larger drive, no problem.  Add drive, move data, remove
old drive, extend file system if needed, all done.  I have notes but
I've done it a lot recently and have the general idea still glued to the
back of my head.  ;-)  Thing is, ZFS isn't making sense to me so I'm
clueless where to start when something goes wrong or even getting it to
work period.  I may try watching a video on ZFS and see if that helps. 
Maybe it will, maybe I'll still prefer LVM.  After all, I'm a old dog. 
New tricks ain't easy.  ROFL 

If I bought a pre-made NAS, I'd just have to deal with it.  I'd keep
hammering until I got it to where I could backup my data.  If I build a
Raspberry thing, NAS software may not be my first choice.  Maybe, just
maybe, my light bulb will pop on and I can make sense of TrueNAS and
ZFS.  If so, fine.  Right now, it's a lot of work with really no gain. 
I'm not able to backup my data yet.  It's a brick, time consuming and
confusing brick at that. 

After supper, I'm rebooting and see if I can beat some sense into
again.  Seriously considering using dd and starting over from scratch. 
I can't figure out how to do that with the GUI thing.  No delete button,
that I can find anyway. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] X2go - connect to XFCE desktop - grey screen

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 2:17 PM  wrote:
>
> On 12/16/22 22:52, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:
> > I recently upgraded remote computer and whey trying to connect via X2go
with XFCE session produces just grey screen and it is hard to terminate the
session.
> >
> > When I select "Connect to local Desktop" (remote computer is running
XFCE) the connection works.
> >
> > The remote and local computer running same version of x2go:
> > net-misc/x2goclient-4.1.2.2-r1
> > net-misc/x2goserver-4.1.0.3-r1
>
> When XFCE session is selected in I get grey screen and in the session log
I see:
> ...
> Loop: WARNING! Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'. Assuming
agent session.
> Warning: Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'. Assuming agent
session.
> ...
>
> It seems to me it is trying to force KDE session instead of XFCE.
>
> Any solutions?

There are many discussion in Google around the line

Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'

and differences in libraries. Have you studied those?

Re: [gentoo-user] X2go - connect to XFCE desktop - grey screen

[thelma]

On 12/16/22 22:52, the...@sys-concept.com wrote:

I recently upgraded remote computer and whey trying to connect via X2go with 
XFCE session produces just grey screen and it is hard to terminate the session.

When I select "Connect to local Desktop" (remote computer is running XFCE) the 
connection works.

The remote and local computer running same version of x2go:
net-misc/x2goclient-4.1.2.2-r1
net-misc/x2goserver-4.1.0.3-r1


When XFCE session is selected in I get grey screen and in the session log I see:
...
Loop: WARNING! Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'. Assuming agent 
session.
Warning: Unrecognized session type 'unix-kde-depth_24'. Assuming agent session.
...

It seems to me it is trying to force KDE session instead of XFCE.

Any solutions?

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Frank Steinmetzger]

Am Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 09:09:48AM -0700 schrieb Mark Knecht:

> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale  wrote:

> > > I
> > > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be
> > > interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM
> > > instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that one.
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a
> > storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas
> > put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
> > of indirection?
> > […]
> It's more about me being more used to using LVM.  Also, more used to
> Linux as well.  BSD is not something I have much experience with and until
> recently, none with ZFS.  Even the little experience I have with BSD was
> well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.  I barely remember it really.

The truenas interface is supposed to hide all that from you. As Mark wrote
two posts up, it’s an appliance. You install it once, that’s it. I think you
can install addons, but don’t have to. You maybe do updates once in a while,
perhaps not even that if it’s a critical production host. You don’t ssh into
it to do maintenance or to add or remove disks on the commandline. That’s
what the web UI is for. All of it. The biggest and most obvious difference
for me would be how devices are named in comparison to Linux.

> Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system.
> LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system.
> My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions
> on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5.

LVM is “just” an abstraction layer between file system and storage. At the
bottom there are your block devices (drives, image files), which then may or
may not be RAIDed. Then you have LVM on top of that to encompass all those
devices into one big “virtual hard drive” and partition it (logical
volumes). And lastly you put file systems into those volumes. So there are
two, three (or even four, if you add encryption somewhere in between) layers
stacked onto your raw devices.

ZFS OTOH is all of that in one. It takes the raw block devices as a whole,
puts them (optionally) into redundancy structures, allows for “partitions”
(i.e. datasets) and lastly also *is* the file system. The advantage is that
it can combine its knowledge about all those layers to improve performance
and reliability. So for instance it distributes writes according to vdev
occupancy (LVM has no knowledge about the FS layer above it). Or when you
rebuild a RAID, only those parts that are actually used by the FS need to be
reconstructed, not the whole disk.

I may come off as a ZFS fanboy in this thread. But I am in no way an expert,
just a small-time user with just that one NAS with one RAID setup. That’s
it. I did a lot of reading beforehand, whether I should use it or mdadm or
btrfs. All my knowledge comes from that time, I never worked with it in my
professional life.

I also use LVM on my systems these days, just in case my root partition
becomes crowded and needs some extra space that I can take from the media
partition. Had to do this once, it went quick and was a fun experience.

> WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly
> you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages
> 30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value.

+1
I admit I like the occasional update of my Gentoo NAS. But that’s also
because it’s my last living Gentoo device. I always liked the environment,
still do. Gentoo was my first Linux after all, that stuff stays in your
mind. But oh the time-consuming hassle sometimes.

-- 
Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

The fantasy of men is often inadequate to grasp the reality of women.


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Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:10 PM Wol  wrote:

> Do you want the system layered, with each layer doing one job? Use
> dm-integrity to protect against corruption, raid to join the disks, lvm
> to partition them, and ext to manage the directories and files.
>
> I do the latter ...

No argument there, at least on a group of drives where you
want to have flexibility in the future. Desktop computers or
system drives certainly. You didn't tell me what replaces
the compression aspect of the problem but I'm sure there's
something. It's a great strategy if you have the expertise and
time to set it up and then manage it when a problem arises,
if it ever arises.

I'm just asking what's the purpose of doing LVM, or your
suggested layering, specifically on a storage pool for a
home user like Dale? That's the part I don't understand,
especially for a new NAS user like Dale?

Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] Gaming on gentoo

[Alan Ianson]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 18:46:57 +
Artur Tamm  wrote:

> Here is my output (start the game and exit from menu right away). It seems
> yours is failing at the audio initialisation stage. Could you try to

I disabled all the audio options in the makefile like this..

# Enable/Disable user directories support
DO_USERDIRS=1

### Enable/Disable SDL2
USE_SDL2=0

### Enable/Disable codecs for streaming music support
USE_CODEC_WAVE=0
USE_CODEC_FLAC=0
USE_CODEC_MP3=0
USE_CODEC_VORBIS=0
USE_CODEC_OPUS=0
# either xmp or mikmod (or modplug)
USE_CODEC_MIKMOD=0
USE_CODEC_XMP=0
USE_CODEC_MODPLUG=0
USE_CODEC_UMX=0

.. and this is what I get when I run that quakespasm..

alan@irondust:~/quakespasm-0.95.1/Quake$ ./quakespasm -basedir 
/usr/share/games/quake
Command line: ./quakespasm -basedir /usr/share/games/quake
Found SDL version 1.2.16
Detected 2 CPUs.
Initializing QuakeSpasm v0.95.1
Host_Init
Playing registered version.
Console initialized.
UDP Initialized
Server using protocol 666 (FitzQuake)
Exe: 11:25:38 Dec 17 2022
256.0 megabyte heap
Video mode 1920x1080x32 60Hz (24-bit z-buffer, 0x FSAA) initialized
GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
GL_RENDERER: GeForce GT 610/PCIe/SSE2
GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.157
FOUND: ARB_vertex_buffer_object
FOUND: ARB_multitexture
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
FOUND: ARB_texture_env_combine
FOUND: ARB_texture_env_add
FOUND: SDL_GL_SWAP_CONTROL
FOUND: EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic
FOUND: ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
FOUND: GLSL
FOUND: glGenerateMipmap

Sound Initialization
Segmentation fault

This is what I get when I run the quakespasm supplied by the project at 
sourceforge.

alan@irondust:/usr/share/games/quake$ ./quakespasm
Command line: ./quakespasm
Found SDL version 1.2.16
Detected 2 CPUs.
Initializing QuakeSpasm v0.95.1
Host_Init
Playing registered version.
Console initialized.
UDP Initialized
Server using protocol 666 (FitzQuake)
Exe: 20:50:09 Nov  4 2022
256.0 megabyte heap
Video mode 1920x1080x32 60Hz (24-bit z-buffer, 0x FSAA) initialized
GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
GL_RENDERER: GeForce GT 610/PCIe/SSE2
GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.157
FOUND: ARB_vertex_buffer_object
FOUND: ARB_multitexture
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
FOUND: ARB_texture_env_combine
FOUND: ARB_texture_env_add
FOUND: SDL_GL_SWAP_CONTROL
FOUND: EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic
FOUND: ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
FOUND: GLSL
FOUND: glGenerateMipmap

Sound Initialization
SDL audio spec  : 44100 Hz, 512 samples, 2 channels
SDL audio driver: pulse, 32768 bytes buffer
Audio: 16 bit, stereo, 44100 Hz
SDL detected 1 CD-ROM drive 
CDAudio initialized (SDL, using /dev/cdrom)
CDAudio_Init: No CD in drive

Language initialization
Couldn't load 'localization/loc_english.txt'
from '/mnt/slack15.0/usr/share/games/quake'

= Quake Initialized =

execing quake.rc
execing default.cfg
execing config.cfg
couldn't exec autoexec.cfg
3 demo(s) in loop
Playing demo from demo1.dem.



the Necropolis
Using protocol 15
You got the shells
You got the Grenade Launcher
Couldn't write config.cfg.
Shutting down SDL sound

The above is the quakespasm executible from the project at sf.net running sdl, 
it seems to run fine. The quakespasm-sdl2 from sourceforge also segfaults at 
the same point as my own build. It is a mystery why that happens. I am going to 
get a debug version together soonish and run it through gdb and hopefully that 
will provide an answer. I haven't use gdb in a very long time so I need to read 
up on that and get back up to speed. The gentoo website has a page that 
explains that, so that'll help.

I'll post whatever I find out.

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Wol]

On 17/12/2022 16:09, Mark Knecht wrote:

Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system.
LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system.
My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions
on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5.


Do one thing and do it well. That's LVM. Or ext.

Jack of all trades. That's ZFS.

Do you want the filesystem doing everything from the hard drive up? Use ZFS.

Do you want the system layered, with each layer doing one job? Use 
dm-integrity to protect against corruption, raid to join the disks, lvm 
to partition them, and ext to manage the directories and files.


I do the latter ...

Cheers,
Wol

Re: [gentoo-user] Gaming on gentoo

[Artur Tamm]

Here is my output (start the game and exit from menu right away). It seems
yours is failing at the audio initialisation stage. Could you try to
compile quakespasm without any audio support.
===
Command line: ./quakespasm_compiled
Found SDL version 1.2.16
Detected 8 CPUs.
Initializing QuakeSpasm v0.95.1
Host_Init
Playing registered version.
Console initialized.
UDP_Init: WARNING: gethostbyname failed (Unknown host)
UDP Initialized
Server using protocol 666 (FitzQuake)
Exe: 21:05:46 Dec 14 2022
256.0 megabyte heap
Video mode 800x600x32 60Hz (24-bit z-buffer, 0x FSAA) initialized
GL_VENDOR: AMD
GL_RENDERER: AMD Radeon Vega 3 Graphics (raven, LLVM 14.0.6, DRM 3.48,
6.0.8)
GL_VERSION: 4.6 (Compatibility Profile) Mesa 22.1.7
FOUND: ARB_vertex_buffer_object
FOUND: ARB_multitexture
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 8
FOUND: ARB_texture_env_combine
FOUND: ARB_texture_env_add
FOUND: SDL_GL_SWAP_CONTROL
FOUND: EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic
FOUND: ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
FOUND: GLSL
FOUND: glGenerateMipmap

Sound Initialization
SDL audio spec  : 44100 Hz, 940 samples, 2 channels
SDL audio driver: alsa, 65536 bytes buffer
Audio: 16 bit, stereo, 44100 Hz
SDL detected 0 CD-ROM drives

Language initialization
Couldn't load 'localization/loc_english.txt'
from '/home/artuuuro/Games/Native/Quake'

= Quake Initialized =

execing quake.rc
execing default.cfg
execing config.cfg
execing autoexec.cfg
3 demo(s) in loop
Playing demo from demo1.dem.



the Necropolis
Using protocol 15
Couldn't find a cdrip for track 2
You got the shells
Couldn't write config.cfg.
Shutting down SDL sound
===

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 at 16:54, David Rosenbaum 
wrote:

>
>
> Dave
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 12:18 AM Alan Ianson  wrote:
>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> I am a gentoo newbie. I have installed gentoo about a month ago and have
>> been busy since in my free time getting it up and running.
>>
>> I have a problem with quakespasm, it segfaults on startup.. this is what
>> I get..
>>
>> alan@irondust:/usr/share/games/quake$ quakespasm
>> Command line: quakespasm
>> Found SDL version 2.24.2
>> Detected 2 CPUs.
>> Initializing QuakeSpasm v0.95.1
>> Host_Init
>> Playing registered version.
>> Console initialized.
>> UDP Initialized
>> Server using protocol 666 (FitzQuake)
>> Exe: 20:46:02 Dec 12 2022
>> 256.0 megabyte heap
>> Video mode 1920x1080x24 60Hz (24-bit z-buffer, 0x FSAA) initialized
>> GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
>> GL_RENDERER: GeForce GT 610/PCIe/SSE2
>> GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.157
>> FOUND: ARB_vertex_buffer_object
>> FOUND: ARB_multitexture
>> GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
>> FOUND: ARB_texture_env_combine
>> FOUND: ARB_texture_env_add
>> FOUND: SDL_GL_SetSwapInterval
>> FOUND: EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic
>> FOUND: ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
>> FOUND: GLSL
>> FOUND: glGenerateMipmap
>>
>> Sound Initialization
>> Segmentation fault
>> alan@irondust:/usr/share/games/quake$
>>
>> I get the above with version 0.95.1 (installed from guru using the git
>> version) and from 0.94.1 also from guru.
>>
>> I am not sure why it segfaults or what I can do about that. I have built
>> it with sdl and sdl2 and I get the same result.
>>
>> I have run quakespasm on other distributions like debian, archlinux and
>> slackware without issues so there may be something different about gentoo
>> that I need to know about.
>>
>> Any thoughts or ideas about how to get this working would be appreciated.
>>
>>

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 9:42 AM Dale  wrote:
>

>
> That is true.  Thing is, I've learned how to manage LVM even with
encrypted data.  I've also learned how to expand storage without losing
data or getting confused about what I'm doing.  To me, using LVM is pretty
easy given the notes I have for the tasks I do most often.
>

> It's not that I want to compile things, it's that I want to use things
I'm already really familiar with.  If I bought a Raspberry Pi and built a
NAS with it, I don't care if I compile the software on it or not as long as
it has the software I need or I can install what I need.  From what I've
read, compiling on a Raspberry isn't much fun.  It's very time consuming.
Having a OS, binary one at that, that is Linux based is a big plus.  I can
run LVM, cryptsetup and such in likely every Linux distro out there and get
the same result as on my Gentoo box.  Switching to BSD, using ZFS, means I
have to learn a whole new set of tools and methods.  I had enough fun
learning LVM and I don't think LVM is going to die anytime soon.  It should
be around for the foreseeable future.  As it is, even now, I still don't
get how ZFS works.  I just followed a guide to get it working, sort of.
It's still not encrypted.  Figuring that out is next.  That should be fun.
>

Maybe just live with TrueNAS for a month or two and get to know it on a
friendly level first?

I think I'm still not understanding the need for LVM. Help me understand. I
see ZFS on TrueNAS as a combination of mdadm and a file system. I'm not
sure I even have partitions. My ZFS pool is just using the whole drive, but
that was all I wanted. Are you planning on using your drive space for other
things? (Plex server in a jail, or remote real-time storage for instance)
If so maybe LVM would help isolate backups - which I thought was why you
wanted this machine - from a VM of some type running on the same machine -
which I don't think you've suggested.

> My network card is out for delivery.  A few days late but better than
never I guess.  I'll see if the drivers needed for it are available as
modules or not.  I suspect they are tho based on info in this thread.

Good luck. Hope the new card makes your life easier.

Re: [gentoo-user] Gaming on gentoo

[David Rosenbaum]

Dave

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022, 12:18 AM Alan Ianson  wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I am a gentoo newbie. I have installed gentoo about a month ago and have
> been busy since in my free time getting it up and running.
>
> I have a problem with quakespasm, it segfaults on startup.. this is what I
> get..
>
> alan@irondust:/usr/share/games/quake$ quakespasm
> Command line: quakespasm
> Found SDL version 2.24.2
> Detected 2 CPUs.
> Initializing QuakeSpasm v0.95.1
> Host_Init
> Playing registered version.
> Console initialized.
> UDP Initialized
> Server using protocol 666 (FitzQuake)
> Exe: 20:46:02 Dec 12 2022
> 256.0 megabyte heap
> Video mode 1920x1080x24 60Hz (24-bit z-buffer, 0x FSAA) initialized
> GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
> GL_RENDERER: GeForce GT 610/PCIe/SSE2
> GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.157
> FOUND: ARB_vertex_buffer_object
> FOUND: ARB_multitexture
> GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
> FOUND: ARB_texture_env_combine
> FOUND: ARB_texture_env_add
> FOUND: SDL_GL_SetSwapInterval
> FOUND: EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic
> FOUND: ARB_texture_non_power_of_two
> FOUND: GLSL
> FOUND: glGenerateMipmap
>
> Sound Initialization
> Segmentation fault
> alan@irondust:/usr/share/games/quake$
>
> I get the above with version 0.95.1 (installed from guru using the git
> version) and from 0.94.1 also from guru.
>
> I am not sure why it segfaults or what I can do about that. I have built
> it with sdl and sdl2 and I get the same result.
>
> I have run quakespasm on other distributions like debian, archlinux and
> slackware without issues so there may be something different about gentoo
> that I need to know about.
>
> Any thoughts or ideas about how to get this working would be appreciated.
>
>

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale  > wrote:
> >
> > Mark Knecht wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale  > wrote:
> >
> > > I
> > > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be
> > > interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM
> > > instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that
> one.  o_O
> >
> > Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a
> > storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas
> > put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
> > of indirection?
> >
> > If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy
> > of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might
> > be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box
> > to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is
> > different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought
> > this thread was about. What am I not remembering?
> >
> > - Mark
> >
> >
> > It's more about me being more used to using LVM.  Also, more used to
> Linux as well.  BSD is not something I have much experience with and
> until recently, none with ZFS.  Even the little experience I have with
> BSD was well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.  I barely
> remember it really.
> >
> > By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I'm familiar
> with and less likely to mess up things.  Things get messed up enough
> without adding more confusion.  ;-)
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-)  :-)
>
> Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system.
> LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system.
> My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions
> on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5.
>

That is true.  Thing is, I've learned how to manage LVM even with
encrypted data.  I've also learned how to expand storage without losing
data or getting confused about what I'm doing.  To me, using LVM is
pretty easy given the notes I have for the tasks I do most often. 


> You may or may not know this but TrueNAS is available as a 
> Linux version:
>
> https://www.truenas.com/blog/first-release-of-truenas-on-linux/
>
> I don't recommend it. It's new. Let someone else figure it out. However
> it might be more to your liking, and because it's Linux you'd be more
> comfortable messing it up. ;0-
>
> WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly 
> you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages 
> 30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value. 
> Instead you might just consider relaxing and letting the system 
> take care of itself. In the last year I've only updated my TrueNAS box
> twice that I can remember.
>
> On the other hand if system tweaking is what brings you joy then
> Que Sera Sera .
>
> Good luck,
> Mark


It's not that I want to compile things, it's that I want to use things
I'm already really familiar with.  If I bought a Raspberry Pi and built
a NAS with it, I don't care if I compile the software on it or not as
long as it has the software I need or I can install what I need.  From
what I've read, compiling on a Raspberry isn't much fun.  It's very time
consuming. Having a OS, binary one at that, that is Linux based is a big
plus.  I can run LVM, cryptsetup and such in likely every Linux distro
out there and get the same result as on my Gentoo box.  Switching to
BSD, using ZFS, means I have to learn a whole new set of tools and
methods.  I had enough fun learning LVM and I don't think LVM is going
to die anytime soon.  It should be around for the foreseeable future. 
As it is, even now, I still don't get how ZFS works.  I just followed a
guide to get it working, sort of.  It's still not encrypted.  Figuring
that out is next.  That should be fun. 

My network card is out for delivery.  A few days late but better than
never I guess.  I'll see if the drivers needed for it are available as
modules or not.  I suspect they are tho based on info in this thread. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Mark Knecht]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 8:52 AM Dale  wrote:
>
> Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale  wrote:
>
> > I
> > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be
> > interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM
> > instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that one.
 o_O
>
> Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a
> storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas
> put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
> of indirection?
>
> If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy
> of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might
> be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box
> to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is
> different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought
> this thread was about. What am I not remembering?
>
> - Mark
>
>
> It's more about me being more used to using LVM.  Also, more used to
Linux as well.  BSD is not something I have much experience with and until
recently, none with ZFS.  Even the little experience I have with BSD was
well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.  I barely remember it really.
>
> By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I'm familiar with
and less likely to mess up things.  Things get messed up enough without
adding more confusion.  ;-)
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)

Hummm...I don't know Dale, I don't know... ZFS is a file system.
LVM is an abstraction on top (or underneath?) of a file system.
My understanding of LVM is that it frees you from hard decisions
on partition sizes, not that it replaces ZFS or ext3/4/5.

You may or may not know this but TrueNAS is available as a
Linux version:

https://www.truenas.com/blog/first-release-of-truenas-on-linux/

I don't recommend it. It's new. Let someone else figure it out. However
it might be more to your liking, and because it's Linux you'd be more
comfortable messing it up. ;0-

WRT you I recommend that you try living in NGL for a while. Possibly
you are just a bit too indoctrinated in the religion of building packages
30-50 times a year believing (without hard data) that it provides value.
Instead you might just consider relaxing and letting the system
take care of itself. In the last year I've only updated my TrueNAS box
twice that I can remember.

On the other hand if system tweaking is what brings you joy then
Que Sera Sera .

Good luck,
Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Dale]

Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale  > wrote:
>
> > I
> > wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be
> > interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM
> > instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that
> one.  o_O
>
> Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a
> storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas 
> put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
> of indirection?
>
> If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy
> of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might
> be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box
> to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is
> different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought
> this thread was about. What am I not remembering?
>
> - Mark

It's more about me being more used to using LVM.  Also, more used to
Linux as well.  BSD is not something I have much experience with and
until recently, none with ZFS.  Even the little experience I have with
BSD was well over a decade ago, maybe two decades ago.  I barely
remember it really.

By replacing ZFS with LVM, I'm working with something I'm familiar with
and less likely to mess up things.  Things get messed up enough without
adding more confusion.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Mark Knecht]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:50 PM Dale  wrote:

>
> I noticing that now.  Once the install is done and you have the IP
> address, heck, you don't need a monitor for much of anything it
> appears.  I even found a console so one can type in things to do.

Exactly. My TrueNAS machines haven't had a monitor attached
since they were built. Everything you need is there. It's more a
storage appliance than a computer.

> I
> wonder, could one install the LVM stuff and use that?  That would be
> interesting.  I wonder if there is a NAS software that uses LVM
> instead.  Interesting thought.  I just may go bug google on that one.  o_O

Maybe I'm missing the point but why would you want LVM on a
storage pool? If I'm doing backups I just want space. I let TrueNas
put it on disk and give it back if asked. Why put another layer
of indirection?

If you're intending to use it as simple NAS - i.e. - the only copy
of some data on your network - then possibly LVM might
be interesting, but then you need a second TrueNAS box
to back that up. NAS as a mountable data location is
different than NAS doing backups which is what I thought
this thread was about. What am I not remembering?

- Mark

Re: [gentoo-user] NAS and replacing with larger drives

[Frank Steinmetzger]

Am Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:49:01AM -0600 schrieb Dale:

> > While ZFS has the same pooling feature as LVM, meaning you can bunch several
> > disks together to create a JBOD, it has one big disadvantage over LVM: you
> > can grow a pool, but not shrink it. Actually, while reading up on stuff for
> > this thread, I learned that these days it is actually possible to remove a
> > mirror vdev from a mirror-only pool (a mirror can technically also be a
> > single device). But according to
> > https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/solaris/ZFSWhyNoVdevRemoval
> > it’s not perfect either.
> >
> 
> One thing about LVM, I already know how to use it.  I've got notes on
> how to do things and it has worked.  With ZFS I'd have to learn it all
> over again plus it could confuse me with my using LVM on my main rig. 
> In a way, if I build a Raspberry NAS, I'd like to have Linux and LVM on
> the thing.  At least then I have experience moving data and such.  Right
> now, I don't even have the basics of ZFS or BSD.  I'm not saying TrueNAS
> is bad or anything, just that I don't really care for the learning
> curve.  Then the confusion part on top of that. 

The beauty of the WebUI is that it abstracts all of that away. You don’t
have to be in the know about the inner works and create pools and vdevs by
hand. Though it might be handy in case something breaks in an unexpected
way.

> I've read there are distros built for Raspberry thingys.  I'd be shocked
> if it isn't doable.  I'd be shocked if someone hasn't already done it
> even.   

It’s called RaspberryPi OS (formerly knows as Raspbian). It has the kernel,
some start scripts and settings files that control which stuff to load at
boot. Pis boot differently to x86 hardware; there is no Grub & co.

I don’t particularly like Debian’s apt, which is why I’m also experimenting
with Arch on arm, Arch being my favorite distro for my everyday these days.

-- 
Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

“Oh, gravity, thou art a heartless bitch.” – Dr. Sheldon Cooper


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[gentoo-user] Re: Major problems with libpcre / UTF8

[Nuno Silva]

On 2022-12-16, Walter Dnes wrote:

>   Apologies to those who've already seen this or had their replies
> bounce.  The mail host I use was down yesterday (the big storm?) so I
> haven't seen any responses to this post.  Here's a second try...
>
>   I just finished solving my babl problems, but more stuff shows up in
> libpcre.  First, here are my USE flags.  I don't see "utf8" anywhere.
>
> Calculating dependencies... done!
> [ebuild   R] dev-libs/libpcre-8.45-r1:3::gentoo  USE="bzip2 cxx jit 
> readline
> +(split-usr) (unicode) zlib -libedit -pcre16 -pcre32 -static-libs" 0 KiB
>
>   Can someone give me their output from "emerge -pv1 dev-libs/libpcre"
>
> mc (Midnight Commander) spews out a lot of...
>
> (mc:5796): GLib-CRITICAL **: 15:19:15.617: PCRE library is compiled without 
> UTF8
> +support

As pointed in the original thread, the dependency to look at is probably
libpcre2 now.

Could it be bug 883877? [1] Has been fixed in the tree at least for glib
2.74.3 [2].

[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=883877
[2] 
https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=337a97f5660ed827c17f487acdf5fb9f71bbdf1b

(For browsing the list archives, besides the web archive already
mentioned in this thread, if you have a news client you may also find
news://news.gmane.io/gmane.linux.gentoo.user useful)

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [gentoo-user] Gaming on gentoo

[Alan Ianson]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 11:03:42 +0200
Artur Tamm  wrote:

> I try to have a systemd and pulseaudio free setup ("religious" reasons).

I also prefer OpenRC myself but I like pulseaudio. It doesn't replace alsa, it 
compliments it.

> When I need pulse I use apulse and otherwise everything else is compiled
> with alsa flag.

I normally have both alsa and pulseaudio once I have a desktop profile 
selected. It's worked well for me.

> I wonder if the issue is related to graphics drivers/libraries instead.

I don't think so but it might be. It really doesn't make sense does it? There 
is some detail in the works here. It is odd since I have never had a problem 
with quakespasm or darkplaces. I have always built them from source and they 
always run without any issues.

I also have issues with ioquake3. I can run a binary I built on slackware and 
it runs fine (here, on gentoo). When I try to build on gentoo the build fails. 
I haven't had a good look at that though, I'll leave that on the back burner 
and look at that another time.

> D remember having segfaults with some other
> linux ports whirh were caused by a missing library which did not show up (I
> do not remember the name but something with ?t3c?) but I think it is now in
> mesa. .If you figure out what opengl features are being used we could
> compare glxinfo outputs.

I am going to build a quakespasm with debugging support and run it through gdb. 
I am no expert with any of this though, so I have to read up on how to do that. 
I hope that will provide an answer I can understand and work out.

I'll reply with anything I find and hopefully at some point I can move beyond 
this.

> So, I tested quakespasm on an ryzen 7 apu (2700u) with vega gpu (thinkpad
> e485). I am using mesa drivers and a linux 6.0.8 kernel.

I was sporting a 6.1 kernel a couple days ago without any issues. :) I am 
running 5.15.80 now and am happy to stick with the defaults that the gentoo 
devs choose to go with most times.

Re: [gentoo-user] Gaming on gentoo

[Artur Tamm]

Hi,

I try to have a systemd and pulseaudio free setup ("religious" reasons).
When I need pulse I use apulse and otherwise everything else is compiled
with alsa flag. I wonder if the issue is related to graphics
drivers/libraries instead. D remember having segfaults with some other
linux ports whirh were caused by a missing library which did not show up (I
do not remember the name but something with ?t3c?) but I think it is now in
mesa. .If you figure out what opengl features are being used we could
compare glxinfo outputs.

So, I tested quakespasm on an ryzen 7 apu (2700u) with vega gpu (thinkpad
e485). I am using mesa drivers and a linux 6.0.8 kernel.

Artur

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022, 04:20 Alan Ianson,  wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 20:20:01 -0500
> David Rosenbaum  wrote:
>
> > Thank u
>
> No problem.. :)
>
> I have the same results without pulseaudio. Both quakespasm and darkplaces
> segfault on startup but ironwail runs ok.
>
> I'm going to mess around here for a day or two without pulseaudio then put
> it back and put gdb to work and see if I can get a better idea of what the
> problem is. The solution will probably be easy if I can figure out what the
> issue is.
>
>