Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 3:43 PM Manuel McLure  wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 11:40 AM Dale  wrote:
>>> On that note, I thought about going to some lawyers offices and Doctors
>>> and asking them to let me know when they upgrade their printers.
>>
>> A lot of those bigger printers/print centers are leased, so you might not 
>> have a lot of luck getting a used one.
> That, and large companies usually go through some kind of asset
> recovery service which will do auctions or sales.
>
> Note that you're not going to get some kind of "crazy deal" on stuff
> like this.  These are workhorses whose value is well-extracted by the
> time they're sold, and then they're sold for what is probably a very
> fair price.  If they are cheap, it is because they're not expected to
> last all that long or they're expected to not be worth the upkeep
> costs.
>
> Of course, as an individual your tolerance for fussing with hardware
> to get a good deal might be different.  A company that has to dispatch
> somebody to drive to an office to fix a printer when it jams will have
> a lower tolerance for this than somebody who is willing to get their
> hands dirty to do it themselves.  Just as back in the day companies
> would happily spend $150 on an LED light bulb simply to avoid the
> expense of sending a union custodian to climb a ladder to change one
> in an inconvenient fixture.
>
> I'd certainly look at your used options, but you can get a nice
> monochrome laser printer for under $200 which will last a very long
> time with a respectable per-page cost.  It is true that the cost per
> page goes down as you scale up all the way to printing presses the
> size of buildings, but you really need to weigh capital vs operational
> costs.  I'm obviously at the other extreme by paying Staples
> $0.10/page for monochrome, but with zero capital outlay.
>


I hadn't thought about them leasing tho.  When Manuel mentioned that, I
knew that was a deal breaker. 

That's the other thing, I don't want a printer that requires a dedicated
240 volt outlet, pulls power like a short circuit and is as big as a
stove, all to print a few thousand sheets the first few months and maybe
a few hundred a month after that initial surge.  I've seen some large
printers that can do almost everything but wash dishes.  They would be
more than I need really. 

I've dug around, none of the other printers I find are listed on
openprinting.  I'm likely going to get the Lexmark.  Maybe prices will
come down some on the cartridges or I can refill them myself a time or
two and it work well.  I've done that on mono cartridges in the past. 
Usually you can get one refill before the cartridge starts to have other
issues.  Sometimes twice if lucky.  Still, it has to be better than
those cheap crap inkjet things I keep throwing away.  :/

Thanks to all for the ideas and helping me to know I'm getting one that
*should* work pretty easy. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 3:43 PM Manuel McLure  wrote:
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 11:40 AM Dale  wrote:
>>
>> On that note, I thought about going to some lawyers offices and Doctors
>> and asking them to let me know when they upgrade their printers.
>
>
> A lot of those bigger printers/print centers are leased, so you might not 
> have a lot of luck getting a used one.

That, and large companies usually go through some kind of asset
recovery service which will do auctions or sales.

Note that you're not going to get some kind of "crazy deal" on stuff
like this.  These are workhorses whose value is well-extracted by the
time they're sold, and then they're sold for what is probably a very
fair price.  If they are cheap, it is because they're not expected to
last all that long or they're expected to not be worth the upkeep
costs.

Of course, as an individual your tolerance for fussing with hardware
to get a good deal might be different.  A company that has to dispatch
somebody to drive to an office to fix a printer when it jams will have
a lower tolerance for this than somebody who is willing to get their
hands dirty to do it themselves.  Just as back in the day companies
would happily spend $150 on an LED light bulb simply to avoid the
expense of sending a union custodian to climb a ladder to change one
in an inconvenient fixture.

I'd certainly look at your used options, but you can get a nice
monochrome laser printer for under $200 which will last a very long
time with a respectable per-page cost.  It is true that the cost per
page goes down as you scale up all the way to printing presses the
size of buildings, but you really need to weigh capital vs operational
costs.  I'm obviously at the other extreme by paying Staples
$0.10/page for monochrome, but with zero capital outlay.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Manuel McLure]

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 11:40 AM Dale  wrote:

> On that note, I thought about going to some lawyers offices and Doctors
> and asking them to let me know when they upgrade their printers.


A lot of those bigger printers/print centers are leased, so you might not
have a lot of luck getting a used one.
-- 
Manuel A. McLure WW1FA  
...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
no man may kill a cat.   -- H.P. Lovecraft

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Dale]

Daniel Frey wrote:
> On 4/21/19 10:29 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 11:17 AM Daniel Frey  wrote:
>>>
>>> Most companies with IT no longer bother with laser printers, they'll
>>> use
>>> large print centres (like copiers) which have a low cost-per-page
>>> (black
>>> and white can be under 1c/page.) We have retired most of our laser
>>> printers.
>>
>> Unless I'm mistaken, those are also laser printers.  They just have
>> integrated scanners as well, and sometimes FAX/email/etc.
>>
>
> Yes. But we were talking more consumer printers here. We haven't
> bought a "normal" laser printer (in the sense of a Laserjet that sits
> on a desk etc.) in more than a decade. Those larger print centres are
> also a heck of a lot faster than a normal desktop laser printer. The
> cost per page is also much lower (I believe way pay < 1c per page for
> black and white.)
>
> Dan
>
>


On that note, I thought about going to some lawyers offices and Doctors
and asking them to let me know when they upgrade their printers.  Some
of those does it on a schedule because it is a tax write off.  What they
could do, donate it to some charity and me pay the charity a little and
I have a good printer plus they get a extra write off.  The only
downside to that, it is used plus they are most likely going to be much
bigger and have more features than I need.  While I don't care if it has
a scanner, can fax etc, I don't need one plus I don't have a phone line
to use to fax either, unless it does it over internet which I can do
with email anyway.  lol 

One thing about some of the larger more expensive ones, they tend to be
built to last a long time and can handle large loads.  Thing is, I might
not use it enough to keep all the wheels spinning.  It may rust to
pieces from not being used enough.  ROFL 

One thing I've found out about the Lexmark, cartridges that are refurbed
or something ain't easy to find, yet.  Heck, finding them at all isn't
easy unless you go to a big chain type store.  May look into another
brand for this that has pretty much the same page counts.  I dunno. 
They do last a long time tho. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Daniel Frey]

On 4/21/19 10:29 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 11:17 AM Daniel Frey  wrote:


Most companies with IT no longer bother with laser printers, they'll use
large print centres (like copiers) which have a low cost-per-page (black
and white can be under 1c/page.) We have retired most of our laser printers.


Unless I'm mistaken, those are also laser printers.  They just have
integrated scanners as well, and sometimes FAX/email/etc.



Yes. But we were talking more consumer printers here. We haven't bought 
a "normal" laser printer (in the sense of a Laserjet that sits on a desk 
etc.) in more than a decade. Those larger print centres are also a heck 
of a lot faster than a normal desktop laser printer. The cost per page 
is also much lower (I believe way pay < 1c per page for black and white.)


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 11:17 AM Daniel Frey  wrote:
>
> Most companies with IT no longer bother with laser printers, they'll use
> large print centres (like copiers) which have a low cost-per-page (black
> and white can be under 1c/page.) We have retired most of our laser printers.

Unless I'm mistaken, those are also laser printers.  They just have
integrated scanners as well, and sometimes FAX/email/etc.

-- 
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Daniel Frey]

On 4/21/19 4:27 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:

You will pay for it VERY quickly.  A good color laser costs $200.  An
inkjet plus the first set of cartridges, which will last six months
together, will cost you $100-150 (one way or another - either with a
cheap printer with super-expensive cartridges, or an expensive printer
with more reasonable cartridges).

There is a reason just about any company with professional IT uses
laser printers.  They're just way cheaper to operate long-term, and
really long-term works out to be something like a year.  They also
don't print photos (more on that below).



Most companies with IT no longer bother with laser printers, they'll use 
large print centres (like copiers) which have a low cost-per-page (black 
and white can be under 1c/page.) We have retired most of our laser printers.


We still have a backup laser printer... from memory it's a Kyocera 
P5021cdw (we got them on sale for a bit over $500 CAD) - but this is the 
only printer I've come across that has a cost per page comparable to a 
copier/large print station. It's a bit more expensive per page, but 
compared to HP for example it was almost half the cost to run. 
Unfortunately I don't remember the numbers...


Dan

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 6:42 AM Mick  wrote:
>> A laser printer is *much* more economical to run than inkjets.  The toner
>> cartridges never dry out - with inkjet you often replace the ink before it 
>> has
>> run out, because it has dried out.  Initially you pay more for a laser, but
>> over the years you will recuperate your investment in lower running costs.
> You will pay for it VERY quickly.  A good color laser costs $200.  An
> inkjet plus the first set of cartridges, which will last six months
> together, will cost you $100-150 (one way or another - either with a
> cheap printer with super-expensive cartridges, or an expensive printer
> with more reasonable cartridges).
>
> There is a reason just about any company with professional IT uses
> laser printers.  They're just way cheaper to operate long-term, and
> really long-term works out to be something like a year.  They also
> don't print photos (more on that below).
>
> If you have a family then laser printers also are worth it for peace
> of mind.  Inkjets are a maintenance nightmare, and they tend to
> contribute to spouses becoming a maintenance nightmare.  They seem to
> ALWAYS need unclogging or tweaking or whatever, and of course every
> time you hit that clean button you can just feel money draining out of
> your wallet.  A laser printer just needs to be fed new toner when a
> cartridge empties, which is rare and takes two minutes.  Occasionally
> they will jam, and usually the paper path is very easy to access and
> clear.
>
>> However, the quality of printing pictures is something you ought to check
>> before you buy.  As a rule, inkjets with their liquid ink, print better 
>> colour
>> pictures than a comparable laser.  Professional laser printers for thousands
>> of dollars are better than what you're thinking of buying, but even then they
>> won't match the colour flow and finish of a good quality inkjet.  So, 
>> consider
>> your use case and go to a shop to try-before-you-buy, because a laser printer
>> may not be your optimal choice.
> If you care about photos, laser printers are useless.  So are "cheap"
> inkjets, and they aren't cheap either.
>
> If you care about photos I almost always tell people to just have them
> printed commercially.  Walmart is just fine for what most people care
> about, and their service will exceed the quality of any sub-$150-200
> inkjet easily.  A better service will simply be unbeatable by any
> reasonable home printer and will still be cheaper than most inkjet
> solutions.
>
> Now, if you print a LOT of photos then a higher-end inkjet might be a
> worthwhile investment, especially if printing on demand is
> commercially valuable for you.  The higher-end printers combined with
> quality ink/paper can turn out a very good product and they're
> reasonable economical to operate because the ink is cheap and there
> probably are upwards of 10+ individual tanks in them, or they may
> support bulk ink out of the box.  However, you have to print often
> enough to go through a set of cartridges every six months or so,
> because they still have a shelf life, and if you're throwing away 10%
> used cartridges your cost per page goes WAY up.
>
> And make no mistake, one way or another decent photos cost money to
> print.  If you print high-volume with a good printer at home maybe
> that $10 print online only costs $7-8 to DIY.  Photos go through a LOT
> of ink.  When you see those stats about pages per cartridge they
> generally assume 5% coverage, and a photo is 100% coverage, and of
> course you have to use photo paper on top of that.  If you aren't
> draining those cartridges completely before they dry up then your cost
> goes up, and any savings evaporate.  They might be worth it for
> convenience, but you're paying for it.
>
> So, I would still generally advocate the laser printer for most
> people, augmented by commercial photo printing when needed.  Also,
> think about whether you REALLY need color - the complexity of the
> printer goes up significantly with color and the cost to operate - a
> monochrome laser will be much cheaper to operate.
>
> Right now I'm at the point where I don't even have a working printer.
> My postscript color laser needs a new image drum and I just can't see
> one paying for itself.  I can print at work if I need to, or if I'm in
> a hurry I can pay the outrageous $0.10/page at Staples (just email a
> PDF to an address and you get an access code to print the document on
> demand).  Since a good quality printer easily costs half that already
> the break-even time to DIY would be quite long, though there is
> certainly a convenience factor having a printer at home.  I just don't
> have that compulsion to print stuff out.  If anything I do the reverse
> - scanning any paper I'm given and shredding it.
>
> --
> Rich
>
>


Thanks to both for the info.  I usually use online picture developers or
local ones.  Why, I like the old style of processing of film.  I've 

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Dale]

Manuel McLure wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:59 PM Dale  > wrote:
>
> Manuel McLure wrote:
>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:12 PM Dale > > wrote:
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm looking at printers.  ...  This is the model. 
>> Brother HL-L3270CDW
>>
>>
>> Looking at the specs for that Brother printer (I don't know why
>> you linked to the openprinting.org  page
>> for a Lexmark printer) it seems to have the most important aspect
>> for Linux compatibility - PCL6 emulation (PostScript would also
>> work, but you want to avoid anything that doesn't have one of
>> those two). It also has normal port 9100 network connectivity, so
>> it should work just fine under Linux for B/W. I can't find
>> anything in the Openprinting database for that specific Brother
>> printer, some of the other entries for Brother printers say you
>> need a proprietary driver to get color out of them. The entry for
>> the *HL-3170* says it works perfectly but gives no details. So
>> I'd be a little wary going in.
>>
>> As for duty cycle, 30,000 pages/month is the same that my old
>> built-like-a-tank HP Laserjet 4Mp had, so I wouldn't worry about
>> it. Note that the printer is going to come with "starter
>> cartridges" that are only good for about 1000 pages, and that the
>> drum is also a consumable that needs replacing after 18,000
>> pages. But 18,000 pages is a lot.
>> -- 
>> Manuel A. McLure WW1FA > > 
>> ...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
>> no man may kill a cat.                       -- H.P. Lovecraft
>
>
> I think I linked to the wrong page.  I was looking up a lot of
> printers and must have got it mixed up.  Makes me wonder if I
> picked the wrong printer too.  LOL  You are correct tho, it isn't
> listed.  Time to find another printer. 
>
> Knowing about the PCL6 part will help.  I didn't know that would
> be important.  Also, I'd rather have one that I can install with
> CUPS and its drivers or HPLIP. It's been a while since I've had a
> printer and switching to laser is something that is new territory
> as well. 
>
> Question.  I see some that are regular laser printers.  Then I see
> some that are laser jet.  Looking up the cartridges it seems to
> use toner.  Another reason I want toner based is that if a page
> gets wet or damp, the toner doesn't run like most ink jet printers
> do.  Am I correct that a laser or a laser jet would serve that
> purpose the same?  It seems it just uses a different method to put
> the toner on the page or something.  I googled and what little I
> found sort of makes me think that would be fine. 
>
> I'm open to ideas on this.  I've always bought HP in the past but
> as long as it prints fine with either HPLIP or CUPS, I'm fine with
> it.  Brother would be fine, Lexmark to if it works.  I know some
> printers are more Linux friendly than others.  I honestly wish I
> could find a used printer locally but not sure how to do that
> around here. 
>
> Thanks much for the info.  Me makes note to check that PCL6 in the
> future.  ;-)
>
>
> Don't worry about laser vs. Laserjet. "Laserjet" is just HP's name for
> their laser printer line. So all HP laser printers are called
> "Laserjet" but they're just the same as any other laser printer.
>
> There are actually two ways a "laser" printer can create an image: it
> can use a laser (duh) or it can use an array of very small LEDs
> (mostly Okidata printers). From a user's perspective, they're both the
> same. The important bit is that they project that light onto a
> photosensitive drum that picks up toner particles and transfers them
> to paper, where they get heated and fused into the paper fibers. This
> is much the same way photocopiers used to work (nowadays most
> photocopiers are just a scanner attached to a laser printer).
>
> The important bit is the language the printer speaks. There are two
> main languages spoken by laser printers: PCL and PostScript. Both are
> technically proprietary (PCL is from HP, PostScript is from Adobe) but
> there are a lot of printers that emulate these languages. You want to
> run far and fast from any printer that supports neither of these
> languages - those are generally known as Winprinters and require
> special drivers. PostScript is the more "UNIX-compatible" of the two -
> many programs on UNIX/Linux will generate PostScript and pass that to
> CUPS. If the printer supports PostScript, CUPS can pass the print file
> straight to the printer, otherwise it needs to use Ghostscript to
> convert the Postscript input into whatever the destination printer
> supports. Because so many laser printers either include true PCL (i.e.
> HP print

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Rich Freeman]

On Sun, Apr 21, 2019 at 6:42 AM Mick  wrote:
>
> A laser printer is *much* more economical to run than inkjets.  The toner
> cartridges never dry out - with inkjet you often replace the ink before it has
> run out, because it has dried out.  Initially you pay more for a laser, but
> over the years you will recuperate your investment in lower running costs.

You will pay for it VERY quickly.  A good color laser costs $200.  An
inkjet plus the first set of cartridges, which will last six months
together, will cost you $100-150 (one way or another - either with a
cheap printer with super-expensive cartridges, or an expensive printer
with more reasonable cartridges).

There is a reason just about any company with professional IT uses
laser printers.  They're just way cheaper to operate long-term, and
really long-term works out to be something like a year.  They also
don't print photos (more on that below).

If you have a family then laser printers also are worth it for peace
of mind.  Inkjets are a maintenance nightmare, and they tend to
contribute to spouses becoming a maintenance nightmare.  They seem to
ALWAYS need unclogging or tweaking or whatever, and of course every
time you hit that clean button you can just feel money draining out of
your wallet.  A laser printer just needs to be fed new toner when a
cartridge empties, which is rare and takes two minutes.  Occasionally
they will jam, and usually the paper path is very easy to access and
clear.

> However, the quality of printing pictures is something you ought to check
> before you buy.  As a rule, inkjets with their liquid ink, print better colour
> pictures than a comparable laser.  Professional laser printers for thousands
> of dollars are better than what you're thinking of buying, but even then they
> won't match the colour flow and finish of a good quality inkjet.  So, consider
> your use case and go to a shop to try-before-you-buy, because a laser printer
> may not be your optimal choice.

If you care about photos, laser printers are useless.  So are "cheap"
inkjets, and they aren't cheap either.

If you care about photos I almost always tell people to just have them
printed commercially.  Walmart is just fine for what most people care
about, and their service will exceed the quality of any sub-$150-200
inkjet easily.  A better service will simply be unbeatable by any
reasonable home printer and will still be cheaper than most inkjet
solutions.

Now, if you print a LOT of photos then a higher-end inkjet might be a
worthwhile investment, especially if printing on demand is
commercially valuable for you.  The higher-end printers combined with
quality ink/paper can turn out a very good product and they're
reasonable economical to operate because the ink is cheap and there
probably are upwards of 10+ individual tanks in them, or they may
support bulk ink out of the box.  However, you have to print often
enough to go through a set of cartridges every six months or so,
because they still have a shelf life, and if you're throwing away 10%
used cartridges your cost per page goes WAY up.

And make no mistake, one way or another decent photos cost money to
print.  If you print high-volume with a good printer at home maybe
that $10 print online only costs $7-8 to DIY.  Photos go through a LOT
of ink.  When you see those stats about pages per cartridge they
generally assume 5% coverage, and a photo is 100% coverage, and of
course you have to use photo paper on top of that.  If you aren't
draining those cartridges completely before they dry up then your cost
goes up, and any savings evaporate.  They might be worth it for
convenience, but you're paying for it.

So, I would still generally advocate the laser printer for most
people, augmented by commercial photo printing when needed.  Also,
think about whether you REALLY need color - the complexity of the
printer goes up significantly with color and the cost to operate - a
monochrome laser will be much cheaper to operate.

Right now I'm at the point where I don't even have a working printer.
My postscript color laser needs a new image drum and I just can't see
one paying for itself.  I can print at work if I need to, or if I'm in
a hurry I can pay the outrageous $0.10/page at Staples (just email a
PDF to an address and you get an access code to print the document on
demand).  Since a good quality printer easily costs half that already
the break-even time to DIY would be quite long, though there is
certainly a convenience factor having a printer at home.  I just don't
have that compulsion to print stuff out.  If anything I do the reverse
- scanning any paper I'm given and shredding it.

--
Rich

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Mick]

On Sunday, 21 April 2019 03:12:10 BST Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I'm looking at printers.  I been wanting a toner based printer for a
> LONG time now.  I'm so tired of those poorly made ink jet things that
> don't last long at all.  I've found one so far.  According to the
> printer support website, Linux supports it.  [1]  The site says this: 
> "Color printer, works Perfectly".  Sounds good.  This is the model. 
> Brother HL-L3270CDW

I've been running a Brother HL3140CW for the last couple of years.  Before 
that I had a DeskJet 930C.

The "works perfectly" claim needs to be caveated.  I have been using the net-
print/brother-hl3140cw-bin drivers from the brother-overlay.  Initially they 
worked perfectly.  However, at some point the installation script changed, I 
assume to correspond to file ownerships and permissions in some reference 
distro and consequently some things stopped working in Gentoo without manual 
editing of config files.  There are ebuild fixes kindly submitted by other 
users:

https://github.com/stefan-langenmaier/brother-overlay/pull/53

Nevertheless, the above indicates the statement of "works perfectly" should be 
taken with a pinch of salt.


> Now I googled some, which can be dangerous at
> times, and not sure this is a printer I want.  It seems to be light duty
> and I suspect when I first get this thing, I'm going to be printing a
> LOT of stuff.  According to a spec sheet on the cartridge, it does about
> 3,000 pages for black and 2,300 for color.  Should I try to find a
> printer that does more than this or is that about the norm? 

There are different spec cartridges, from demo to high volume.  The demo/
starter cartridge is only partly filled with toner and will come with your new 
printer.  It will print a third fewer pages than a new cartridge.  That said 
I'm still running the starter cartridges and black shows 50% full after two 
years of light use.


> I did some searching on duty cycles and such.  This one shows this: 
> Duty Cycle: Up to 30,000  Would that be OK for a printer for home use,
> likely heavy use the first couple months?  What sort of life should I
> expect from this type of printer? 

How long is a piece of string ... ?  :)

It depends on your particular use case.

When a cartridge runs out you replace it.  If a drum goes bad, you can replace 
that too.  Hopefully the motor or other parts won't go bad at any time.  Since 
you're not running a shop or a busy office printing hundreds and thousands of 
pages every day you should see a good life of many many years out of it.


> Any insight on this would be nice.  As some know, I'm on fixed income 

A laser printer is *much* more economical to run than inkjets.  The toner 
cartridges never dry out - with inkjet you often replace the ink before it has 
run out, because it has dried out.  Initially you pay more for a laser, but 
over the years you will recuperate your investment in lower running costs.

With the replacement of the laser light source with LEDs the cost of new /
laser/ printers has come down, so this makes it an even better choice for most 
use cases.

However, the quality of printing pictures is something you ought to check 
before you buy.  As a rule, inkjets with their liquid ink, print better colour 
pictures than a comparable laser.  Professional laser printers for thousands 
of dollars are better than what you're thinking of buying, but even then they 
won't match the colour flow and finish of a good quality inkjet.  So, consider 
your use case and go to a shop to try-before-you-buy, because a laser printer 
may not be your optimal choice.

HTH.
-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[karl]

Dale:
> I'm looking at printers.  I been wanting a toner based printer for a
> LONG time now.

Office inkjet printers has come a long way to match laser/led printers.

> Brother HL-L3270CDW  Now I googled some, which can be dangerous at

I bought a Brother HL-L8260CDW for my mother and it works perfectly 
fine for her, except it failes with out of memory for some photo print
jobs, she has both linux and MS-Windows computers.

...
> Duty Cycle: Up to 30,000  Would that be OK for a printer for home use,
> likely heavy use the first couple months?
...

Don't know what you classify as heavy use, but the 3270 looks like a
small, light duty printer.

///

Generally, when I look for printers my spec is:
. postscript level 3 (or compatible)
. duplex/tumble (up to 200g/m²)
. A3 or larger
. >= two paper trays + manual feed
. up to 300g/m²
. matte blacks (most (all?) new printers make glossy printouts)
. clean, crisp and high resolution printouts
. lots of memory, fast cpu
. cable ethernet connection
. lpr port (515) and 9100
. price range

You havn't said your spec. so I cannot recommend anything for you.
But going A4/letter, there is too many to choose from, so start with
price range.

Regards,
/Karl Hammar

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Peter Humphrey]

On Sunday, 21 April 2019 06:01:03 BST Manuel McLure wrote:

> There are actually two ways a "laser" printer can create an image: it can
> use a laser (duh) or it can use an array of very small LEDs (mostly Okidata
> printers). From a user's perspective, they're both the same. The important
> bit is that they project that light onto a photosensitive drum that picks
> up toner particles and transfers them to paper, where they get heated and
> fused into the paper fibers. This is much the same way photocopiers used to
> work (nowadays most photocopiers are just a scanner attached to a laser
> printer).

As an aside, can you comment on the quality of photo printing of an LED 
printer compared with laser and inkjet? (I have an old Kyocera FS1020-D mono 
laser which may need replacing one day.)

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Manuel McLure]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:59 PM Dale  wrote:

> Manuel McLure wrote:
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:12 PM Dale  wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I'm looking at printers.  ...  This is the model.
>> Brother HL-L3270CDW
>>
>
> Looking at the specs for that Brother printer (I don't know why you linked
> to the openprinting.org page for a Lexmark printer) it seems to have the
> most important aspect for Linux compatibility - PCL6 emulation (PostScript
> would also work, but you want to avoid anything that doesn't have one of
> those two). It also has normal port 9100 network connectivity, so it should
> work just fine under Linux for B/W. I can't find anything in the
> Openprinting database for that specific Brother printer, some of the other
> entries for Brother printers say you need a proprietary driver to get color
> out of them. The entry for the *HL-3170* says it works perfectly but gives
> no details. So I'd be a little wary going in.
>
> As for duty cycle, 30,000 pages/month is the same that my old
> built-like-a-tank HP Laserjet 4Mp had, so I wouldn't worry about it. Note
> that the printer is going to come with "starter cartridges" that are only
> good for about 1000 pages, and that the drum is also a consumable that
> needs replacing after 18,000 pages. But 18,000 pages is a lot.
> --
> Manuel A. McLure WW1FA  
> ...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
> no man may kill a cat.   -- H.P. Lovecraft
>
>
>
> I think I linked to the wrong page.  I was looking up a lot of printers
> and must have got it mixed up.  Makes me wonder if I picked the wrong
> printer too.  LOL  You are correct tho, it isn't listed.  Time to find
> another printer.
>
> Knowing about the PCL6 part will help.  I didn't know that would be
> important.  Also, I'd rather have one that I can install with CUPS and its
> drivers or HPLIP. It's been a while since I've had a printer and switching
> to laser is something that is new territory as well.
>
> Question.  I see some that are regular laser printers.  Then I see some
> that are laser jet.  Looking up the cartridges it seems to use toner.
> Another reason I want toner based is that if a page gets wet or damp, the
> toner doesn't run like most ink jet printers do.  Am I correct that a laser
> or a laser jet would serve that purpose the same?  It seems it just uses a
> different method to put the toner on the page or something.  I googled and
> what little I found sort of makes me think that would be fine.
>
> I'm open to ideas on this.  I've always bought HP in the past but as long
> as it prints fine with either HPLIP or CUPS, I'm fine with it.  Brother
> would be fine, Lexmark to if it works.  I know some printers are more Linux
> friendly than others.  I honestly wish I could find a used printer locally
> but not sure how to do that around here.
>
> Thanks much for the info.  Me makes note to check that PCL6 in the
> future.  ;-)
>
>
Don't worry about laser vs. Laserjet. "Laserjet" is just HP's name for
their laser printer line. So all HP laser printers are called "Laserjet"
but they're just the same as any other laser printer.

There are actually two ways a "laser" printer can create an image: it can
use a laser (duh) or it can use an array of very small LEDs (mostly Okidata
printers). From a user's perspective, they're both the same. The important
bit is that they project that light onto a photosensitive drum that picks
up toner particles and transfers them to paper, where they get heated and
fused into the paper fibers. This is much the same way photocopiers used to
work (nowadays most photocopiers are just a scanner attached to a laser
printer).

The important bit is the language the printer speaks. There are two main
languages spoken by laser printers: PCL and PostScript. Both are
technically proprietary (PCL is from HP, PostScript is from Adobe) but
there are a lot of printers that emulate these languages. You want to run
far and fast from any printer that supports neither of these languages -
those are generally known as Winprinters and require special drivers.
PostScript is the more "UNIX-compatible" of the two - many programs on
UNIX/Linux will generate PostScript and pass that to CUPS. If the printer
supports PostScript, CUPS can pass the print file straight to the printer,
otherwise it needs to use Ghostscript to convert the Postscript input into
whatever the destination printer supports. Because so many laser printers
either include true PCL (i.e. HP printers) or emulate PCL (like that
Brother) the support for PCL in CUPS is very good. However, I have only
used Ghostscript->PCL with black and white. I don't know exactly what
issues there might be with color support, so I can't help much there.

That Lexmark looks excellent on the compatibility front - it has both PCL6
_and_ Postscript as well as standard port 9100 connectivity. It's only
rated for 5000 pages a month, but that's still plenty for home use.

Hope t

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Dale]

Manuel McLure wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:12 PM Dale  > wrote:
>
> Howdy,
>
> I'm looking at printers.  ...  This is the model. 
> Brother HL-L3270CDW
>
>
> Looking at the specs for that Brother printer (I don't know why you
> linked to the openprinting.org  page for a
> Lexmark printer) it seems to have the most important aspect for Linux
> compatibility - PCL6 emulation (PostScript would also work, but you
> want to avoid anything that doesn't have one of those two). It also
> has normal port 9100 network connectivity, so it should work just fine
> under Linux for B/W. I can't find anything in the Openprinting
> database for that specific Brother printer, some of the other entries
> for Brother printers say you need a proprietary driver to get color
> out of them. The entry for the *HL-3170* says it works perfectly but
> gives no details. So I'd be a little wary going in.
>
> As for duty cycle, 30,000 pages/month is the same that my old
> built-like-a-tank HP Laserjet 4Mp had, so I wouldn't worry about it.
> Note that the printer is going to come with "starter cartridges" that
> are only good for about 1000 pages, and that the drum is also a
> consumable that needs replacing after 18,000 pages. But 18,000 pages
> is a lot.
> -- 
> Manuel A. McLure WW1FA mailto:man...@mclure.org>>
> 
> ...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
> no man may kill a cat.                       -- H.P. Lovecraft


I think I linked to the wrong page.  I was looking up a lot of printers
and must have got it mixed up.  Makes me wonder if I picked the wrong
printer too.  LOL  You are correct tho, it isn't listed.  Time to find
another printer. 

Knowing about the PCL6 part will help.  I didn't know that would be
important.  Also, I'd rather have one that I can install with CUPS and
its drivers or HPLIP. It's been a while since I've had a printer and
switching to laser is something that is new territory as well. 

Question.  I see some that are regular laser printers.  Then I see some
that are laser jet.  Looking up the cartridges it seems to use toner. 
Another reason I want toner based is that if a page gets wet or damp,
the toner doesn't run like most ink jet printers do.  Am I correct that
a laser or a laser jet would serve that purpose the same?  It seems it
just uses a different method to put the toner on the page or something. 
I googled and what little I found sort of makes me think that would be
fine. 

I'm open to ideas on this.  I've always bought HP in the past but as
long as it prints fine with either HPLIP or CUPS, I'm fine with it. 
Brother would be fine, Lexmark to if it works.  I know some printers are
more Linux friendly than others.  I honestly wish I could find a used
printer locally but not sure how to do that around here. 

Thanks much for the info.  Me makes note to check that PCL6 in the
future.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Manuel McLure]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 7:12 PM Dale  wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I'm looking at printers.  ...  This is the model.
> Brother HL-L3270CDW
>

Looking at the specs for that Brother printer (I don't know why you linked
to the openprinting.org page for a Lexmark printer) it seems to have the
most important aspect for Linux compatibility - PCL6 emulation (PostScript
would also work, but you want to avoid anything that doesn't have one of
those two). It also has normal port 9100 network connectivity, so it should
work just fine under Linux for B/W. I can't find anything in the
Openprinting database for that specific Brother printer, some of the other
entries for Brother printers say you need a proprietary driver to get color
out of them. The entry for the *HL-3170* says it works perfectly but gives
no details. So I'd be a little wary going in.

As for duty cycle, 30,000 pages/month is the same that my old
built-like-a-tank HP Laserjet 4Mp had, so I wouldn't worry about it. Note
that the printer is going to come with "starter cartridges" that are only
good for about 1000 pages, and that the drum is also a consumable that
needs replacing after 18,000 pages. But 18,000 pages is a lot.
-- 
Manuel A. McLure WW1FA  
...for in Ulthar, according to an ancient and significant law,
no man may kill a cat.   -- H.P. Lovecraft

[gentoo-user] Picking out a printer. Questions.

[Dale]

Howdy,

I'm looking at printers.  I been wanting a toner based printer for a
LONG time now.  I'm so tired of those poorly made ink jet things that
don't last long at all.  I've found one so far.  According to the
printer support website, Linux supports it.  [1]  The site says this: 
"Color printer, works Perfectly".  Sounds good.  This is the model. 
Brother HL-L3270CDW  Now I googled some, which can be dangerous at
times, and not sure this is a printer I want.  It seems to be light duty
and I suspect when I first get this thing, I'm going to be printing a
LOT of stuff.  According to a spec sheet on the cartridge, it does about
3,000 pages for black and 2,300 for color.  Should I try to find a
printer that does more than this or is that about the norm? 

I did some searching on duty cycles and such.  This one shows this: 
Duty Cycle: Up to 30,000  Would that be OK for a printer for home use,
likely heavy use the first couple months?  What sort of life should I
expect from this type of printer? 

Any insight on this would be nice.  As some know, I'm on fixed income so
I'd like to get a printer that can handle my needs and not be breaking
to much.  I wouldn't mind having cartridges that can either be refilled
or are affordable too.  Sometimes just a few dollars more can get you a
lot more printing.  BTW, I don't need one that scans or anything.  I
have a scanner already.  If there is one that is a really dependable one
that has a scanner, I wouldn't pass it up just for that but it isn't
needed.  Mostly, I just want a printer that is economical and dependable. 

Thanks much. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

1: https://www.openprinting.org/printer/Lexmark/Lexmark-C2325dw