Re: End of get_iplayer is nigh?
It seems unlikely this will mean the end of get_iplayer. The streams are still available for playing with browsers or apps on phones/tablets, and the data saying what programmes are available is still around in various forms. I'm not even convinced this will require any changes to get_iplayer. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 13 Feb 2024, at 18:29, Mike Conley wrote: > > On 13 Feb 2024, at 13:13, Jonathan Larmour wrote: > >> This BBC News article has appeared today: >> >> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-68283165 >> >> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >> The BBC's iPlayer streaming service is to end downloads for users who watch >> on desktop or laptop computers. > > Well, that sucks. > > Enshittification reaches the Beeb. > > -mike > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: v3.28 has been released
Does it need developing? Isn't bug fixing sufficient if it already does its job? -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 9 Dec 2021, at 12:34, geo...@eycott.co.uk wrote: > > Nope, Dinky is still maintaining it but just not responding in any forums or > email lists. If you find a bug you need to log it in Github (which works, I > logged one and it has been fixed in the latest release). However he (or she?) > is only fixing bugs and not developing it. > >> -Original Message- >> From: get_iplayer On Behalf Of >> Owen Smith >> Sent: 09 December 2021 00:03 >> To: get_iplayer >> Subject: Re: v3.28 has been released >> >> I didn't know get_iplayer was still being updated,I thought it all died a >> year or >> more ago when the maintainer got the hump and left. Have other people >> taken over? >> >> -- >> Owen Smith >> Cambridge, UK >> >>>> On 8 Dec 2021, at 23:49, Mark Carroll wrote: >>> >>> v3.28 of get_iplayer looks to be out and, at least for me, has some >>> worthwhile improvements. See, >>> https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/wiki/release320to329#releas >>> e328 >>> >>> -- Mark >>> >>> ___ >>> get_iplayer mailing list >>> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >>> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer >> >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: v3.28 has been released
I didn't know get_iplayer was still being updated,I thought it all died a year or more ago when the maintainer got the hump and left. Have other people taken over? -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 8 Dec 2021, at 23:49, Mark Carroll wrote: > > v3.28 of get_iplayer looks to be out and, at least for me, > has some worthwhile improvements. See, > https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/wiki/release320to329#release328 > > -- Mark > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: OT: Playing GiP data wirelessly.
Dynaudio sell wireless speakers. They're not Bluetooth (though some models can do it) and they're not wifi, there is a transmitter box you connect your sources to (optical, stereo analogue, USB). Each speaker is set as left or right, and is mains powered. They're not cheap. I have two pairs of Xeo 3, an older model, and they sound fantastic but then they should for the price. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 4 Sep 2021, at 21:37, Geoff wrote: > > Hi, > >> On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 5:58 AM, Budge wrote: >> >> There is power available at all the locations where a speaker might be >> placed but absolutely no way any cables can be trailed between >> speakers. In other words I need a wireless system with in-built >> amplifiers. I am assuming Bluetooth but could use wifi. The problem as >> I see it is that I only want one channel at each speaker. > > I can't help with your audio problem, but just wanted to point out that > powerline > ethernet adapters are also an option. I've used them before in areas where I > couldn't > run a cable & they work very well. > > Cheers, > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Unknown unknows. was Re: Why no Formula E?
No-one can mimic Murray Walker, and trying to do so is a mistake. Commentators should find their own style. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 25 Apr 2021, at 23:19, Chris Woods wrote: > > Jack Nicholls and Dario Franchitti don't just scream into the mic like Crofty > does at each race start, trying to mimic Murray Walker. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Syntax for grabbing all episodes of the new season of Celebrity Master Chef
On my Freeview HD PVR I can record anything the BBC broadcast and keep it as long as I want. And it is a higher resolution and bit rate recording, often with 5.1 sound which iPlayer never provides. If I have to use iPlayer for some reason, I am already putting up with reduced picture and sound quality. Why should I also have to put up with a limited retention time? -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 6 Jul 2020, at 02:11, VeniVidiVideo wrote: > > Boy, the hypocrisy here is stunning. The BBC allows time-limited downloads, > but does NOT allow downloads without an expiration date. Every single > license payer here is violating BBC's terms of service by using GiP to > download files that do not expire. Yet heaven forbid someone from outside > the UK violate those same terms of service. Plus, every US participant that > has ever spoken up has observed they'd happily pay the license fee if they > could. Hell, I tried to work out an arrangement to pretend to live in an > apartment on somebody's property so I could have an address and pay the > license fee, just to contribute my fair share, but the fellow decided not to > follow through. I didn't blame him for wanting to avoid any impropriety, but > you holier-than-thou types really suck. People in glass houses... > > - larryy > >> On Jul 5, 2020, at 8:31 AM, James Robinson >> wrote: >> >> Could not agree more. Well said. >> >>>> On 04 July 2020 at 17:29 Jon Davies wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 at 13:58, Barry Toner wrote: >>>> Can someone please tell me how I do this? I promised some friends in the >>>> USA I would grab this show for them. I need the video and don’t need >>>> subtitles or audio description. >>> >>> This is why I stopped subscribing to this list a couple of years ago - >>> I've been resubscribed by the old backup, but will be going again. I >>> want nothing to do with anyone or anything that promotes violation of >>> the BBC terms of use. See >>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/usingthebbc/terms-of-use/ - particularly 7a, the >>> bit that says >>> >>> a. Don’t mess with our services >>> >>> What do we mean by that? This sort of thing: >>> ...Accessing content from outside the UK that you aren’t allowed to, >>> or helping others do the same. >>> >>> So, please just stop using get-iplayer for this sort of thing. People >>> have put effort into building get-iplayer to enable fair use within >>> the UK in circumstances that the BBC's own software doesn't support. >>> >>> Yes, I'm angry. I'm angry that people, including you Barry Toner, are >>> abusing the work others (and to a much lesser extent I) have put into >>> get-iplayer and the various distribution points for it. >>> >>> So I'm pulling the plug on what's left of the Ubuntu repository >>> (though it was getting no further updates for other reasons), and >>> pulling the plug on the Raspbian repository. If you don't like this, >>> tough. Do your own thing. I'm having no part in this any more. >>> >>> Jon >>> >>> ___ >>> get_iplayer mailing list >>> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >>> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Can get_iplayer still download radio?
That's Matrix H, which is the most over complicated matrix encoding quad ever used. It was impossible to decode at all accurately with 1970s analogue electronics, and is still extremely difficult with modern computers. The BBC were definitely mistaken in proposing Matrix H. This broadcast is in Matrix HJ, which was a combination of Matrix H and 45J encoding. This later morphed into UHJ which is a matrix encoding of Ambisonics which is still in use professionally. Doing the phase shifts and basic matrix decoding is easy with computers. The problem is removing the residual ubbish from the other channels, so that something appears genuinely in rear right rather than every speaker except front left. That's damned hard even with modern computers. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 3 May 2020, at 19:55, Dave Lambley wrote: > > >> >> On May 3, 2020 2:28 PM Owen Smith wrote: >> >> >> That's it, it was originally broadcast in Matrix HJ. As you say, not clear >> if the rebroadcast is matrix encoded but unless they've re-mastered it in >> some way it probably is. > > I've been admiring the diagrams and matrices in > http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1977-02.pdf > > It looks rather phase sensitive. I'd fear that the psychoacoustic compression > on the iPlayer might harm that, but you never know until you try. You might > be better off searching for other sources of recordings though. > >> >> My friend develops his own matrix decoding solutions using multiple steps in >> off the shelf audio processing software, like Audacity. This is not remotely >> real time, it takes many hours to do one album. But if you're doing matrix >> decoding you can keep the output and listen to it again. He and I have never >> understood the general obsession with decoding matrix quad in real time. Do >> it well and do it once. > > Do share your results, I am curious. If the process is similar to the one in > the paper, it looks like the kind of thing modern CPUs can eat for breakfast, > if done in something compilable. The block diagrams are reminiscent of audio > codecs and software defined radio. > > I imagine you could do a better job of decoding it than was ever possible in > 1977. The rather cruder Dolby Surround system has been through multiple > revisions over the years. > > All the best, > Dave ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Can get_iplayer still download radio?
Quad does indeed decode to 4 channels. It is conventional these days to store decodes as 5 channels with a silent centre channel either in FLAC, DVD-A/V or Blu Ray. The silent centre is because equipment made in the last 10 years tends to put 4 channel stuff in the wrong speakers or not play it at all, because the manufacturers only test 5.0 and 5.1 playback. Interest in quad and matrix decoding is very low. Decoding software is hard to find, and the small amount of supposedly off the shelf software either won't compile (source code distributed years ago and not updated) or does a poor job of decoding (or both). Doing a quad matrix decode well is remarkably difficult, the original matrix designs were overly ambitious for the 1970s and still tax modern computers. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 3 May 2020, at 15:27, Jim web wrote: > > In article <67d27056-575a-461a-bfe3-a17cd9198...@cantab.net>, Owen > Smith > wrote: >> That's it, it was originally broadcast in Matrix HJ. As you say, not >> clear if the rebroadcast is matrix encoded but unless they've >> re-mastered it in some way it probably is. > >> My friend develops his own matrix decoding solutions using multiple >> steps in off the shelf audio processing software, like Audacity. This is >> not remotely real time, it takes many hours to do one album. But if >> you're doing matrix decoding you can keep the output and listen to it >> again. He and I have never understood the general obsession with >> decoding matrix quad in real time. Do it well and do it once. > > Yes. Originally, of course, the assumption was that it would come via > something like an LP or broadcast and need to be done 'real time' whenever > it was played. But nowdays the only drawback of 'decode once, properly' is > the load of storing larger (output) files as they have four channels, I > assume. > > I'd assumed there were now some open source decoders available that do the > trick. But my interest in 'surround sound' is pretty low, so haven't really > paid much attention. > > Jim > > -- > Electronics > https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm > Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html > biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html > Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Can get_iplayer still download radio?
That's it, it was originally broadcast in Matrix HJ. As you say, not clear if the rebroadcast is matrix encoded but unless they've re-mastered it in some way it probably is. My friend develops his own matrix decoding solutions using multiple steps in off the shelf audio processing software, like Audacity. This is not remotely real time, it takes many hours to do one album. But if you're doing matrix decoding you can keep the output and listen to it again. He and I have never understood the general obsession with decoding matrix quad in real time. Do it well and do it once. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 3 May 2020, at 12:34, Jim web wrote: > > In article <586ac7e6c4...@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim web > > wrote: > >> Please tell us the PID as I'm curious about this and would be interested >> in investigating it. > > FWIW I did a search and the only item I hit was > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vdykh > > which is stated to be unavailable. It does look interesting, but I assume > we'd need to encourage the BBC to make it available again. > > And it isn't clear if the rebroadcast is itself encoded or not. > > Jim > > -- > Electronics > https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm > Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html > biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html > Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Can get_iplayer still download radio?
I have some friends looking for a Radio 4 Extra broadcast that is quadraphonic matrix encoded. They want to download it to decode the quad with software. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: An OT thread about the forums
I tried the forums some years back. I found dinky's rules and application of them so strict that I felt it wasn't a place anyone could contribute anything. It was just a place for reporting get_iplayer bugs or BBC changes, and anything else got deleted. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 13 Apr 2020, at 23:23, VeniVidiVideo wrote: > > On Apr 12, 2020, at 10:32 AM, SquarePenguin > wrote: >> BLUF: Dinky's decided to bow out of the forums completely. This has forced >> me to start taking notice of forum things for the first time in a long time, >> so I'm seeking your input as to what to do with them. > > I mainly just use the email list. > > I don't know the forum software, but wonder if it could be more group-policed > to reduce the burden on the moderator(s)? Have a button to report problem > postings/emails. Those reportings would have to be moderated, but not every > post. If the moderator agrees the post is a problem, follow your usual > procedure for problem posts. If not, apply that procedure to the person who > reported it. This wouldn't eliminate the need for oversight, but should > reduce it significantly. > > And if the rules are relaxed to basically just "don't be rude" and "don't go > off-topic", but expand on-topic to anything to do with access to BBC > programming, there really shouldn't be much to moderate. > > Just a thought. > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: An OT thread about the forums
Is dinky carrying on with maintenance of get_iplayer? Because if not it's all a bit moot, the BBC will change something that breaks it within a few months. And if he is carrying on maintenance, how will he post new versions and release notes if he's not on the forums? (OK that all used to be done on here but I doubt dinky is coming back here.) -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 12 Apr 2020, at 18:18, Dave Lambley wrote: > > >> >> On April 12, 2020 4:49 PM Roger Bell_West wrote: >> >> >>> On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 03:32:17PM +0100, SquarePenguin wrote: >>> 2) I close the forums to new threads/posts but keep it online. >>> >>> This is great for keeping the resource accessible to the community, it's a >>> PITA for maintenance and ongoing costs (it ain't free to host the forums). >> >> 2a) possibly in addition to this, start a new forum with better >> software? I don't use the forum because I don't get on with the >> standard interface; but I find that Discourse is remarkably >> non-painful to run. > > I was not aware that there even was web forum, but I am painfully aware how > forums can become unpleasant. The one Discourse forum I am on however is > remarkably non-toxic. > > All the best, > Dave > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Off topic: how do I stream BBC Radio in 320kbps on iPad in UK?
I'm in the UK. If I want to stream BBC Radio 2 live on my iPad how can I get 320kbps AAC? The BBC Sounds App only has a quality setting for downloads so I assume live gives 128kbps AAC. It sounds very bass heavy but I can't tell what the bit rate is. I'm now listening in the Safari browser and it sounds better, certainly the bass heaviness has gone, but I still don't know what bit rate I'm getting as I can't see any settings for quality. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: GiP and ffmpeg
I understand the need to convert aac that the player won't play. But surely mp3 would be the last choice to convert them to, given converting one lossy format to another is just about the worst thing you can do to audio. Sometimes there are nasty interactions between the different perceptual models. Wouldn't a better option be to first try converting to flac (something like level 5 compression), then if the player can't handle that try wav (which might need a sample rate conversion if the player assumes 44.1 for example), and then mp3 as a desperate last resort? -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 23 Oct 2019, at 10:55, RS wrote: > > IIRC when you sent sample files to Linn they told you they hadn't expected > files to be heavily fragmented, and it would take some time to develop a fix. > Did they ever come back to you? If Linn still do not have a fix probably > your only option would be to convert the files to .mp3. > > You should also aware that for some modes with bit rates less than 96kbit/s > the BBC uses HE-AAC v1. It is even more difficult to find hardware players > to play HE-AAC v1 or v2. Players which cannot handle the SBR or PS > information should ignore it, but you will lose half the bandwidth, and you > may find the files do not play at all. > ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: iPlayer Radio Switch Off
Mandatory BBC account login and no access to higher bit rate streams means I have zero interest in BBC Sounds. I don't want my feed personalised! Luckily I have a SqueezeBox and I use the excellent third party iPlayer plugin for that for my BBC radio needs. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 16 Sep 2019, at 10:47, Peter Corlett wrote: > > I'd give the BBC Sounds app a spin, but they've managed to release a version > which doesn't work on my device. It also seems to require one to create and > sign in with a BBC Account, for reasons which seem to be incompatible with > GDPR. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: iPlayer Radio Switch Off
This has been discussed before on this list a couple of weeks ago. It's only the Apps that are going, iPlayer web site is staying. Whether Apps means just phones or includes things like the Firestick is less clear. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 16 Sep 2019, at 09:39, CJB wrote: > > Er - Daily Mail actually. Sorry to understand that you don't have a > delete (& ignore) option. CJB > >> On 16/09/2019, David Woodhouse wrote: >>> On Mon, 2019-09-16 at 05:58 +0100, CJB wrote: >>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7467267/BBC-start-switching-iPlayer-Radio-app-today.html >> >> No Daily Heil links on this list please. If you can't find it in a >> reputable news medium, don't post it. >> > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Goodbye iPlayer Radio
It is only the iOS and Android apps that are going, to force people to use the much derided BBC Sounds app instead. The iPlayer web site is staying, so get_iplayer will likely be unaffected. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 5 Sep 2019, at 23:56, artisticforge Niemand > wrote: > > hello > > that is a kick in the teeth. > > what does that mean for the Sunday morning. > Hymn Half Hour, Hymns On Sunday, Dawn Chorus, Celebration, In Praise of God, > Sunday Service, Sunday Worship, Sunday Programme, Richard Corrie from > Radio Cumbria. > > Sunday Night > Sounds Sacred on Radio Ulster > Roy Noble on Radio Wales > Beverley's World of Music.on Radio Wales. > > What does this do to all the BBC radio stations on Apple iTunes > Internet Radio listings? > > >> On Thu, Sep 5, 2019 at 2:45 AM CJB wrote: >> >> Wonder what'll we do now ... ?? >> >> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7429429/BBC-bosses-scrap-iPlayer-Radio-focus-Sounds-app-despite-complaints.html >> >> Chris B. >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > > > -- > terry l. ridder ><> > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Excessive Bounces
Which is why I am not on the get_iplayer forum. It's too much like hard work to raise a genuine issue without accidentally breaching one or more of his nit picking rules. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 28 Jul 2019, at 11:28, Peter Corlett wrote: > > Compare this to the get_iplayer > forum, with a long list of rules which dinky enforces with an iron fist. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Forum - HVF 320kbps audio streams no longer available
ITV1 HD on Freeview has never broadcast in anything other than 2.0 audio. Their stated reason is it being too difficult to switch modes between content in 5.1 and adverts in 2.0. This is clearly rubbish since C4 HD does it with no problems. But given the stated reason was audio for adverts, I had assumed ITV didn't broadcast surround sound on satellite either. Personally the real reason seems like the usual ITV disease of supporting only the lowest common denominator most of the time, HD picture being their only exception to that. As for downmix in receivers from 5.1 to 2.0 audio, there are rules for how that is done. Given there are rules and all receivers should be doing it the same way (and most manufacturers just buy the software from Dolby or similar suppliers anyway), it should be possible to mix broadcasts properly so that they work in both 5.1 and with the specified downmix rules. Don't ask me to find the downmix rules, it is many years since I came across them. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 26 Jul 2019, at 14:10, RS wrote: > > > >> On 25/07/2019 11:13, Jim web wrote: >> >> Which then leads to the conundrum that iPlayer TV becomes the poor relation >> when it comes to music broadcasts like Proms. A mere 128k aac compared with >> the 320k aac of R3 and the 5.1. surround of HDTV DVB-T2, etc! I doubt >> bandwidth is the issue because the 320-128 difference compared with the >> rate required for the 'best' video is small. > > You are probably right that bandwidth is not an issue on the iPlayer. I > understand it is an issue on the DVB-T2 HD channels, so that there is only > enough bandwidth for the 5.1 AC3 sound stream and not enough for an > accompanying downmixed 2.0 stream. In the 5.1 stream most of the dialogue > will be directed to the front centre speaker, but many of the receivers being > used will not have a centre speaker. The result is articles like the one in > The Times today accusing actors of mumbling. > > The BBC has proposed a solution here. > https://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/pilots/casualty-ae-audio > If you want to listen to the trial you will have to hurry. It is only on for > another 4 days. > > There does seem to be a reduction in the number of drama programmes being > made with surround sound. ITV now seems to be transmitting some films on > satellite with only a 2.0 sound stream. > > Best wishes > Richard > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Forum - HVF 320kbps audio streams no longer available
Usual reduction in audio quality since the BBC believes everyone uses earbuds anyway for iPlayer. Meanwhile I want stuff broadcast in 5.1 audio (on HD channels) to have 5.1 audio in iPlayer. Fat chance now. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 17 Jul 2019, at 10:28, RS wrote: > > This forum post may be of interest to some here. > > errfmt: > I've noticed that the 320kbps audio streams that used to be default for > hvfhd/hvfsd/hvfxsd TV seem to have disappeared and have been replaced with > 128kbps streams. > Looking at my series downloads the change appears to have happened around 3rd > week in June, for instance Episode 4 of the 'The Planets' downloaded on 19th > June has 320kbps stream, Episode 5 downloaded on 1st July has 128kbps stream. > As far as I can tell all current programmes now only have the 128kbps stream > available (I noticed this because Glastonbury downloads were all 128kbps). > > I suspect this a BBC change and there will be nothing that can be done in > get_iplayer to re-enable 320kbps (but I hope I'm wrong!). > > dinky: > Nothing get_iplayer can do about it. If someone knows that 320k audio TV > streams still exist somewhere, start a new thread and explain how to find > them. Thread closed. > > https://forums.squarepenguin.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=2055 > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: My Sounds
I used that, got a reply saying it wasn't an appropriate venue for voicing my type of complaint, or words to that effect. I never really understood what they meant. Maybe they simply meant "your complaint contradicts policy so there is nothing that can be done". -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 29 Oct 2018, at 13:52, Charles Johnson wrote: > >> On 29/10/2018 13:48, Owen Smith wrote: >> They seem to have shut down all routes for feedback from licence fee payers. > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/ > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: My Sounds
I tried. I couldn't find any means of conveying my view to the BBC. They seem to have shut down all routes for feedback from licence fee payers. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 29 Oct 2018, at 13:43, Charles Johnson wrote: > >> On 29/10/2018 13:37, Owen Smith wrote: >> I do NOT want to login to access BBC radio and I do NOT want a personalised >> view of BBC content. I much prefer seeing the schedule for the stations and >> selecting something to play from that. > > You must of course tell /them/ that, not us. I we were content to do what the > BBC wants, we probably wouldn't be here > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: My Sounds
What they don't seem to make any allowance for is people like me. I do NOT want to login to access BBC radio and I do NOT want a personalised view of BBC content. I much prefer seeing the schedule for the stations and selecting something to play from that. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 29 Oct 2018, at 13:27, CJB wrote: > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/help/introducing-sounds > > CJB > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Loss of BBC HD channels on satellite
I was already aware of the satellite change, I think from the a516digital.com web site. It's a great source of broadcasting news with a technical bent. However, I thought the original post was short enough, apologetic enough about being OP, and of sufficient potential relevance to readers of this mailing list to be worth posting. -- Owen Smith Cambridge, UK > On 18 Oct 2018, at 21:40, Alan Milewczyk wrote: > >> On 18/10/2018 21:26, Jonathan H wrote: >>> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 at 21:16, Peter S Kirk wrote: >>>> On 18 Oct 2018 at 15:46, wrote: >>>> Second poster has a stick up his butt. >>> +1 >> +2 >> >> ___ > +3 > > Why are some posters so bleedin' anal? I was pleased to hear about this topic > from the OP, as it was the first I knew of the change! > > A > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: no more hslv format ?
I'm replying on an iPad, which makes large scale editing of email replies a huge amount of work. So I top post, because it takes only a tenth of the time. If Apple made it only cost me double the amount of time to reply properly I'd do it. I've been mystified for a while why people talked about "dropping every other frame" as if it were trivial to do, and an email earlier in this chain looked like someone was trying to do that again. I was explaining why that simply is not possible in the general case. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 2 May 2018, at 22:33, Ralph Corderoy <ra...@inputplus.co.uk> wrote: > > Hi Owen, > >> What do you mean this isn't a lossy transcoding? > > Is that aimed at me? > > Perhaps if you didn't top post, and instead wrote that under a quote of > mine I'd know to which bit of the two ffmpeg invocations you were > referring! :-) >> How can ffmpeg go from 50fps to 25fps without losing anything? > > I don't think it can, and didn't suggest it could. It is lossy. I said > the first, default, one wasn't, and that therefore it wasn't worth > combining this extra, 50->25, one with it, as you would want to if both > were lossy. > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: no more hslv format ?
That doesn't make any difference to the H.264 encoding. At best if you get lucky every odd frame will be marked as being interpolated from the preceding even frame and then no actual changes within the frame. But all it takes is for the encoder to slip by a frame somewhere or to encode an I frame (a complete standalone frame) in the even or odd half that you are trying to discard every one of and then you are screwed. And if the 50fps file genuinely does have every other frame saying "I'm identical to the previous frame" the stripping these won't save much on the file size. The fact that people complain the 50fps files are double the size of the same resolution 25fps files implies to me this isn't how it has been done. Even if the BBC have only created motion interpolated frames from a 25fps source, they are still encoded in the video stream and you still can't casually toss alternate frames without screwing up the I-P-B frame interpolation. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 2 May 2018, at 19:43, Peter S Kirk <peter.k...@isauk.biz> wrote: > > Many posts back it was mentioned they are not true 50fps, instead each > frame from a 25fps is duplicated merely to allow BBC to boast about 50fps > streaming. > > On 2 May 2018 at 19:07, Owen Smith Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> > wrote: > >> What do you mean this isn't a lossy transcoding? How can ffmpeg go from >> 50fps to 25fps without losing anything? The >> frames are not all complete frames, software can't just throw alternate >> frames away. Well it could, but the only way >> to do that is a full H.264 decode, then discard alternate frames, then a >> full H.264 encode again which is going to >> involve loss. >> >> Most frames are not fully present in the original stream, they are >> interpolated from previous and subsequent frames. >> You can't throw any of those away, because other frames are interpolated >> from them. It would need to be a very special >> original encode which had all even frames only interpolated from other even >> frames and ditto for odd frames to allow >> alternate frames to be discarded. And a special encode like that would bloat >> the file size substantially, almost >> doubling it I would expect. > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: no more hslv format ?
What do you mean this isn't a lossy transcoding? How can ffmpeg go from 50fps to 25fps without losing anything? The frames are not all complete frames, software can't just throw alternate frames away. Well it could, but the only way to do that is a full H.264 decode, then discard alternate frames, then a full H.264 encode again which is going to involve loss. Most frames are not fully present in the original stream, they are interpolated from previous and subsequent frames. You can't throw any of those away, because other frames are interpolated from them. It would need to be a very special original encode which had all even frames only interpolated from other even frames and ditto for odd frames to allow alternate frames to be discarded. And a special encode like that would bloat the file size substantially, almost doubling it I would expect. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 2 May 2018, at 16:20, Ralph Corderoy <ra...@inputplus.co.uk> wrote: > > Hi Jim, > >>> You could use get_iplayer's --command option to run a command to >>> move each final file off tmpfs as the download is finished. Its >>> --output affects all the intermediate files too, AIUI. >> >> The challenge for me is to work out how to get the fetched file to go >> onto the tmpfs > > Well, `df -t tmpfs' will probably show /tmp is a tmpfs so you could > `--output /tmp' and you should see its intermediate files, and the final > file, only appear there. `--command' could then move that final file to > the SSD, or run a conversion command that writes to the SSD and then > removes the tmpfs input. > > As for altering the ffmpeg command that get_iplayer is using, I'm not > sure that's worthwhile? It isn't doing any transcoding, just changing > the container format, or splicing in better audio, that kind of thing. > So your `lossy' slow-down ffmpeg from 50 fps to 25 fps won't be a second > lossy one that you'd prefer to combine with the first. I could be > wrong, not knowing how to have ffmpeg do this conversion. When you find > out, let the list know. :-) > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > https://plus.google.com/+RalphCorderoy > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Cannot play downloads from get_iplayer!
ie. the useful ones are being phased out. The only reason I would download something other than 1280 x 720 is if a higher resolution were available, or 5.1 sound, or some other improvement. I watch this stuff on my TV and surround sound system, the BBC seems to think we are all watching iPlayer on our mobile phones and nothing else. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 18 Apr 2018, at 09:06, iz <ilain...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 18 April 2018 at 08:53, Alan Milewczyk <a...@soulman1949.com> wrote: >> HLS streams are being phased out. > > No they’re not. Only the 1280x720 and 832x468 25fps HLS streams are gone > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: BBC JSON feeds to be discontinued from 1st May
I assume it will still be possible to download by PID, but that means using the iPlayer web site to find the PID for the programme. Not great. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 13 Apr 2018, at 02:01, tellyaddict <tellyaddic...@gmx.co.uk> wrote: > > I meant has a fix been added into the code to keep GiP going once the JSON > feeds go. > >> What do you mean "patched"? Dinky has the source code, he can make changes >> without patching anything. >> >> -- >> Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> >> Cambridge, UK >> >>> On 13 Apr 2018, at 00:24, tellyaddict <tellyaddic...@gmx.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> The JSON feeds that are used to get playlist data will be discontinued by >>> the BBC from the 1st May 2018. Has GiP been patched with a fallback to keep >>> it running when this happens? > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: BBC JSON feeds to be discontinued from 1st May
What do you mean "patched"? Dinky has the source code, he can make changes without patching anything. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 13 Apr 2018, at 00:24, tellyaddict <tellyaddic...@gmx.co.uk> wrote: > > Hi All, > The JSON feeds that are used to get playlist data will be discontinued by the > BBC from the 1st May 2018. Has GiP been patched with a fallback to keep it > running when this happens? > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Steve Backshall - Nature's Microworlds - 2 Serengeti.mp4, b01l4906
I have read it, and it does discuss the issue I raised. 50p is not necessarily 50p when your display has finish motion interpolating it (or not as the case may be). Just because people don't come away from an article agreeing with you completely does not mean they did not read and understand it. I spent 5 years working in the IPTV industry, watching customers butcher image quality so they could squeeze another TV stream down an ADSL line. I do know what I'm talking about. The article failed to mention the angle subtended at the eye. Pixel resolution is partly about whether you can see them. Sit a mile away and you can only see one apparent pixel. Sit next to a 60 inch TV and you can see all the pixels, and you need a higher frame rate to not perceive flicker due to the greater angle subtended at the eye. Also sensitivity to flicker varies with different people. I am very sensitive to it. Back in the days of CRT monitors as the size of the displays went up and the persistence of the phosphors went down over the years (to satisfy gamers who insisted on no visible motion blur) I kept having to push frame rates up. By the time I was on a 19 inch monitor at the end of the the CRT era the phosphor persistence was so damned short that anything less than 120Hz refresh would give me splitting headaches and as a computer programmer that isn't good. The "sample and hold" nature of LCDs saved me from this, they are a godsend. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 9 Apr 2018, at 21:48, Tony Quinn <t...@tqvideo.co.uk> wrote: > > Read the John Watkinson article. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Steve Backshall - Nature's Microworlds - 2 Serengeti.mp4, b01l4906
Before you get all fussy about 50i, 50p or 25p you need to look at what your display is doing to that. Most people are viewing on LCDs these days, and these have a "sample and hold" nature of their own and run at a particular frame rate. So you may find everything is being re-sampled to 30p or 60p or who knows what for display on the panel. My point is you likely don't know the LCD frame rate (I don't know any of mine), and it has implications on statements like "50p is better than 25p" which may or may not be true after what the panel does to it. Your preferred frame rate may even be a result of whatever input frame rate is less butchered by your panel on conversion for display. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 9 Apr 2018, at 19:22, Tony Quinn <t...@tqvideo.co.uk> wrote: > > > >> On 09/04/2018 18:34, MacFH - C E Macfarlane wrote: >> Please see below ... >> >>> On 09/04/2018 16:54, Tony Quinn wrote: >>> >>>> On 09/04/2018 16:23, MacFH - C E Macfarlane wrote: >>>> >>>> Can't see the logic, if there is any?! Surely, for the same disk space >>>> and bandwidth, the customer viewer would get a better download from 1440 >>>> 25fps rather than 720 50fps? >>>> >>> It doesn't scale quite like that . in professional terms, 1080p25 is >>> the same data rate as 720p50 >> >> Yes, I can see that that might be so, but I don't think it alters the thrust >> of my argument, does it? Wouldn't 1080p25 still be better to watch than >> 720p50? >> > > Not "MIGHT be so" . ***IS*** so - having spent 35 years as an engineer in > broadcast TV (some of it at the BBC) , I've heard too many bloody amateurs > dismiss the physics/maths with phrases like "might be so, but..." > > In my opinion 25p has a nasty "cinematic" feel to it (50i is better) - 50p > has smoother movement. > > Added to which just having eyes (which are not stationary) reduces the > spatial resolution by the square root of 2 in each direction - increasing > temporal resolution is much more effective at convincing the brain that > something is "better". > > Read this, and see what I mean > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/25/the_future_of_moving_images_the_eyes_have_it/ > > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Off-Topic forum error
Now that's insane. A thread in the off-topic section being closed for asking about problems with download speeds? Like I said, the more I see the more Dinky puts me off get_iplayer. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 3 Dec 2017, at 18:14, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: > > From: Ralph Corderoy > Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2017 3:17 PM > >>> PS The whole forum now seems to be affected. > >> Works for me, as of now, e.g. >> https://forums.squarepenguin.co.uk/thread-1593-post-7103.html#pid7103 > > Thanks for confirming that, Ralph. I must have picked up a bad cookie. > Deleting cookies received in the last 2 hours fixed it. > > It seems that even in the Off-Topic forum there is a risk of having threads > closed down. > https://forums.squarepenguin.co.uk/thread-1571.html > > It seems the breach of the rules was asking for help with slow downloads. I > don't know whether ely is a member of this list-server, but I would have > urged him or her to try connecting with an Ethernet cable. That would show > whether the problem was the service from Virgin Media or (more likely) with > the WiFi. > > Best wishes > Richard > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: BBC Clifton API JSON data (attn: Martin Powell)
Yes well, Dinky's attitude over the last couple of years has gradually driven me away from get_iplayer. There used to be support and encouragement for users with more technical knowledge and that had an interest in improving features. Now that all seems to be frowned on despite it still being the same maintainer. It's really put me off. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 1 Dec 2017, at 20:20, SquarePenguin <getipla...@squarepenguin.co.uk> wrote: > >> On Fri, 2017-12-01 at 11:24 +0100, Mike Ralphson wrote: >> As we got shown the door at the forum, I hope it's not too off-topic to post >> this here. > > Yes sorry about that. That thread did draw Dinky's ire. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: recording quality and vpn
At work I am in the UK. We pay a TV licence at work of some sort. And I pay a TV licence at home. And yet because our company network exits in Amsterdam all sorts of crap happens. We can't play any video on the BBC web site. Some web sites display Dutch despite our browser preferences saying en-gb. amazon.co.uk thinks we are ordering from abroad. It's a complete pain. If we could VPN back to the UK from work we would, but as you say most places block it. Talking to the network admins in the USA to get anything done about it is hopeless, we exit in Amsterdam because it's cheaper. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 27 Aug 2017, at 18:48, michael norman <michaeltnor...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 27/08/17 17:34, Vangelis forthnet wrote: >>> On Sun Aug 27 14:18:36 BST 2017, cc wrote: >>> can the use of a vpn limit the number of recording qualities available? >>> (snip) I managed to get1280.x720 def on 25 aug >>> (snip) it is now proving impossible for the various downloads I have tried. >> ... Probably the same issue (unless cc=Gautier) : >> https://squarepenguin.co.uk/forums/thread-1488-newpost.html >> i.e. hlshd not appearing inside available tvmodes for an overseas user (and >> inferred use of a VPN...). FWIW, many UK inhabitants and licence fee payers >> do use a VPN service for privacy and other reasons; this is also not allowed >> by the BBC: >> https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/in_the_uk_message >>> If you are using a VPN and are in the UK, try disabling to see if that >>> helps. If we detect you might be using a VPN, you'll be unable to play >>> programmes. This is because we're unable to detect the end point of your >>> private network; we need to be confident you're in the UK. >> For the past two years, after news broke that several millions of Chinese >> netizens were (ab)using iPlayer, the BBC is under a constant battle against >> commercial VPN/ VPS/Proxy/SSL Tunnel services - remember, it's quite easy to >> spot a VPN server (since in the UK the commercial ones are usually to be >> found in known Data Centres with known IP pools), especially since a lot of >> iPlayer traffic appears to be requested by a single IP address. If you're >> using a VPN service or like, expect it to be blocked at any time; it's >> unwise to post about it here in the list, am afraid no help could be (/is >> allowed to be) offered to you... And it's certainly most unwise to post >> about it in the Forums, where 1. it's against their rules 2. they do IP >> checks of registered members (if not in the UK). Take your issue directly >> with your VPN provider... >> FWIW, when the BBC blacklist VPN IPs, they usually start with their >> mediaselector API URLs, so you do get blocked at the door, resulting in no >> streams at all offered to you... Selectively blocking only hlshd but >> allowing other streams to appear sounds a bit iffy; that means that the >> Akamai CDN server (serving the hlshd stream) itself blocks the VPN IP, but >> why would the BBC do that, if other streams could still be accessed? Most >> probably it's an issue with the VPN itself and its configuration, so as >> Gautier surmised >>> So clearly there must be something wrong on my end. >>> On Sun Aug 27 16:43:21 BST 2017, d.lake wrote: >>> Don't use a VPN - use an HTTP proxy. That way you'll get full download >>> speed from a local CDN at the full range of bit-rates. >> Hi, you appear to be in the UK, so I suspect your recommendation to use an >> HTTP(S) proxy is for those in the UK with privacy concerns... In the very >> remote chance your advice is for non-UK users, then in that case there's not >> a big difference between a UK VPN and a UK proxy speedwise; all TV streams >> are blocked currently at CDN server level, so they have to be redirected >> fully through the VPN/HTTP server... The above info is disclosed for pure >> "academic" reasons... I suppose I (and other members) should stop this >> discussion here, so as to not upset even further the high powers that be... >> Regards >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > Surely the point of all this is that if you are in UK and pay the license fee > you should be able to access BBC content and GIP without using a VPN to do > that. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: World Service podcast bit rates
I used to hear the electronic chattering in the background of Classic FM's MP3 stream (128kbps), it was so intrusive I listened to FM instead even given the difficult reception conditions I had. Analogue hiss was more tolerable. Classic FM seem to have changed their encoding a couple of years ago, the electronic chattering is gone and their MP3 feed now easily beats my bad FM reception. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 18 Aug 2017, at 13:32, Simon Morgan <s.mor...@skm.org.uk> wrote: > > Peter, > Thanks for putting me right about the needs of some people for better than > 96kb/s. It was something of which I was totally unaware. > Rgds > Simon Morgan > >> -Original Message- >> From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On >> Behalf Of Peter Corlett >> Sent: 18 August 2017 12:55 >> Cc: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> Subject: Re: World Service podcast bit rates > > >> > >> Not everybody perceives and comprehends speech the same way; it is >> known that people on the autistic spectrum have difficulties separating >> speech from background noise even when they have otherwise excellent >> hearing, for example. >> At low bitrates, high-frequency components are mangled by MP3, >> introducing errors that manifest themselves as sibilance, pitch shifts, >> and in extremis an electronic "chattering" in the background which can >> be quite distracting. >> >> If your hearing and brain are able to filter out the artifacts, well, >> good for you. Others aren't so lucky and need higher-bitrate audio to >> be able to hear and enjoy it properly. The BBC presumably agree, given >> they now make 320kb/s audio available. > > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 645 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan > http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
The 320kbps AAC streams started this way, first R3 live as a trial then R3 catchup then it spread to all stations. I'm hopeful that lossless will follow the same progression. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK On 6 Aug 2017, at 17:40, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: >> From: Paul Thornett >> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 16:50 > > >> You are, of course, absolutely right. Except that right-clicking >> produces 96k rather than 320k. > > The good news is that the FLAC streams are not geo-blocked (or so Vangelis > says in this message.) > http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html > > You don’t have to wait for a Prom to try. All R3 output during the trial > period is included. Load > http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects/radio-3-concert-sound2 > into Firefox. To record it follow the instructions in Vangelis's message. > >> But, really, how astonishing. Why on earth didn't the BBC go the whole >> hog and allow the lossless music to be stored for 30 days? > > You'll have to ask the BBC. > > > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
The live stream is 48KHz 16bits. If you are recording 44.1KHz then a sample rate conversion is being performed somewhere. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK On 6 Aug 2017, at 12:06, Paul Thornett <pthorn...@gmail.com> wrote: >> R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days > >>> I don't think that is right. > > Well, that's funny. I've been playing Proms on the iPlayer site > (nothing to do with GIP) and recording the stream with Audacity since > the Proms started (as I live in Oz, playing and recording a live > stream is impractical given the time difference). > > MediaInfo shows a constant bit rate of 1411 kb/s, a sampling rate of > 44.1 kHz and a bit depth of 16. > > If you then do the same for a live Prom, you get exactly the same > results from MediaInfo, > > That convinces me. > Regards, > > Paul Thornett > > > On 6 August 2017 at 20:50, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: >>> From: d.l...@surrey.ac.uk >>> Sent: Sunday, August 6, 2017 10:02 >> >> >>> " R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 >>> days" >> >> >> I don't think that is right. >> >>> I know how to get 320kbit/s using gip, but how do you get the FLAC >>> lossless stream using gip? >> >> >> You can't do it with GiP. >> >> You have a choice of using a recent nightly build of VLC as Vangelis >> explains in >> http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2017-August/010957.html >> and the other messages in the thread, or a special version of ffmpeg as Jim >> explained in April. Vangelis gives a link to Jim's article. In either case >> you can record the live stream, which includes all R3 output during the >> Proms trial period. >> >> >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC
FLAC is for the live stream only, there is no lossless catchup. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 6 Aug 2017, at 10:02, <d.l...@surrey.ac.uk> <d.l...@surrey.ac.uk> wrote: > > " R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days" > > I know how to get 320kbit/s using gip, but how do you get the FLAC lossless > stream using gip? > > Thanks > > David > > -Original Message- > From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf > Of Paul Thornett > Sent: 06 August 2017 04:15 > To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > Subject: Re: Playing BBC R3 FLAC files recorded by nightly VLC > > I don't understand why anyone would choose to use VLC to record the BBC > streams. VLC is clunky, difficult to get working and arcane. Its interface is > really awful. > > Simply download Audacity (which is free), and use its record button when your > stream starts. The only trickiness is at the end when you don't save the > audio output, instead you export it to a file of your choice. Audacity > exports my files as WAV, but you can as easily get it to use FLAC if you > prefer. > > And I assume you know that you don't have to record the concert live, as all > R3 Proms 2017 output is available in lossless format in iPlayer for 30 days. > Regards, > > Paul Thornett > > >> On 6 August 2017 at 02:30, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: >> A few days ago Vangelis kindly told us how to record the BBC R3 FLAC >> streams using a recent nightly build of VLC. Has anyone been able to >> play the recordings other than through a software player such as VLC? >> >> I can play a recording with the nightly build of VLC. The speakers on >> my PC are adequate, but not suitable for listening to music, so it >> defeats the object if I can't play the recordings on anything else. >> >> If I try to play it with VLC v2.2.6 (Umbrella) there is silence. The >> Statistics tab shows the same number of lost buffers as decoded blocks >> and 0 played buffers. The SanDisk Clip Jam claims to be able to play >> FLAC, although there is a warning on the web site that the v1.12 >> firmware is needed. It plays the Hallelujah.flac test file from The >> Sixteen (and it used to play it with the v1.10 firmware) but it will >> not play the BBC FLAC recording. It displays, "Unsupported file format". >> >> It is in an OGG container. I tried using ffmpeg v3.2.4 with >> -acodec=copy to remultiplex it to a FLAC container. I got an error >> message Could not write header for output file #0 (incorrect codec >> parameters ?): >> Invalid data found when processing input >> >> I then tried converting the FLAC in an OGG container to FLAC in a FLAC >> container. I got a huge number of error messages of the form >> [flac@04fdc8a0] Application provided invalid, non monotonically >> increasing dts to muxer in stream 0: 122872320 >= 122867712 I thought >> something had gone wrong so I stopped it. I then noticed the output >> file size was not zero, but about 5MByte. I discovered I could play >> it and it was about 42s long. I then let the conversion run to completion. >> I got a final error message >> Error while decoding stream #0:0: Invalid argument followed by the >> usual size, time, bit rate and speed indications. >> >> I found the output file was complete and I could play it in VLC v2.2.6 >> and the SanDisk Clip Jam. >> >> The command I used for the conversion was ffmpeg -i=.ogg >> -f=flac -sample_fmt=s16 .flac >> >> >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Possible To Get BBC R3 In FLAC using GiP?
Only the live R3 broadcast is available in FLAC. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 2 Aug 2017, at 18:43, C E Macfarlane <c.e.macfarl...@macfh.co.uk> wrote: > > As per title, I was wondering if it is possible to obtain the Proms iPlayer > streams in FLAC, and if so, how, or are only live broadcasts available as > FLAC? > -- > www.macfh.co.uk/MacFH.html > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: BBC Radio 3 Lossless streaming ...?
Not quite on topic, but if anyone is using a SqueezeBox with a local LMS server installation, the latest iPlayer plugin for it (written by a user, nothing to do with the BBC) can play the live Radio 3 FLAC streams. If anyone wants a link to the relevant squeezebox forums for installation instructions, reply to this email. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 26 Apr 2017, at 17:24, Jim web <w...@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote: > > Given that the BBC has said they will now be streaming the Proms in flac > format this year it looks increasingly plausible that they will also end up > using it as a standard format. > > So far I've been using a specific version of ffmpeg to get the 'trial' > stream. I've asked someone if the Proms arrangements will be the same, or > how they might differ from the trial. But given all this it may be more on > topic now to consider how/if gip would be able to fetch these flac streams? > Might be handy for people during the Proms, and at a later stage more > generally. > > Jim > > -- > Electronics > https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm > Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html > Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: April fool or real?
You can't encode at 450kbps FLAC or indeed pick any bit rate with FLAC. It's lossless, it comes out at whatever it needs to in order to losslessly compress the source. With traditionally recorded classical CDs I find that's around 750kbps. A modern loudness wars pop CD comes out between 900 and 1000kbps for me. But this is rather off topic now. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK On 8 Apr 2017, at 10:49, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: >> From: Owen Smith >> Sent: Saturday, April 8, 2017 01:26 > >> Read the fine print. In a later post BigShot says his 256kbps AAC for >> transparency was mono and you'd have to double the bit rate for encoding a >> stereo >track. I'm not sure whether you can go above 320kbps with AAC, >> certainly a fair number of codecs and transports impose that limit for >> various reasons (I >think it goes back to Dolby Digital on 35mm film using >> just one side gaps between the sprocket holes gets 320kbps because that's >> what the optical >squares can encode). > >> Anyway, even if you could use 512kbps AAC I can't see the point. You might >> as well add another couple of hundred kbps and use FLAC. > > That is not what he said. In post #9 he said it was a mono recording which > he recorded in stereo because that made the artefacts more apparent. He said > if he had recorded it in mono the bit rates would have been halved. It seems > to me his concept of the point of transparency as explained in #7 and #11 > does add something useful. Professor Eric Laithwaite used to say that an > engineer was someone who could do for sixpence what any fool could do for > half a crown. In bigshot's tests he has concluded the point of transparency > is 256kbit/s for AAC and 320kbit/s for LAME MP3. Obviously larger scale > tests are needed to confirm or deny his results. Another important point is > that some encoders are poor, and that poor encoders have given MP3 a bad name. > > IgorC's results at 128kbit/s in #6 and #13 are also interesting. > > You are right that encoding in FLAC at maybe 450kbit/s does not incur too > large a penalty compared with 256kbit/s iTunes or Nero AAC or 320kbit/s LAME > MP3. Another advantage of both FLAC and MP3 is that players are able to play > them, whereas a lot of players seem to have difficulty with AAC. > > After posting my comment I thought I ought to have drawn attention to the > other posts, but I assumed everyone would read the rest of the thread, as you > have. > > > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: cute error message
Sense of humour my foot. That's only 6GB. I regularly deal with files that size and larger. It's high time software caught up. Whether it was 50fps is irrelevant, one day we'll be downloading 1920x1080 or hopefully 4K and then 6GB will be an average file size. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK On 31 Dec 2016, at 18:04, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: >> From: artisticforge . >> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 14:42 > >> i was saving off Dances with Wolves > >> You must be off your block thinking I'm going to tag a file that is at >> LEAST 6237009767 bytes long. > > That's because you downloaded the 720p50 HVFHD mode. Did the action > sequences look a lot better at the 50Hz frame rate? The 720p25 HLSHD mode > is only 2.8GByte. > ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [OT] TOTPs not offered in HD (720p)
Freeview HD uses AAC sound, either in stereo or 5.1 (sometimes with another AAC stream for audio described). It is never in AC3 aka Dolby Digital. Many set top boxes (including mine) transcode the AAC to Dolby Digital so that amps can play it, this leads to confusion on what format is being broadcast. I am aware that Freesat sometimes uses AC3 sound but I don't keep up with details as I don't have satellite. It is probably more pertinent to the discussion to say the broadcast stream sometimes includes 5.1 sound which the iPlayer version never does. It's the stereo vs. multi channel sound aspect that is important here. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK On 29 Dec 2016, at 11:20, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: > On the other hand the broadcast stream often includes an AC3 stream which is > not included in the iPlayer version. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: BBC iPlayer login will be required from 2017
The 405 line shutdown was planned, it wasn't due to maintenance. To judge how many people were still watching, they put an X graphic overlay in the corner of the screen. They got people complaining that X rated material was being show before the watershed. So they changed the overlay to the text "405". It is true there were very few complaints about the 405 line shutdown, but it was planned and advertised in advance. Nothing to do with a maintenance shutdown. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK >> On 1 Oct 2016, at 13:57, David Cantrell <da...@cantrell.org.uk> wrote: >> >>> On 2016-10-01, 10:58, Peter Corlett wrote: >>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:02:55PM +0100, Jim web wrote: >>> It is the responsibility of the *vendor* of closed commerial items to ensure >>> what you buy works as it should. They may 'subcontract' that to the makers, >>> who in turn may commission someone else to deal with it. >> >>> The BBC try to give info well in advance to makers and those who offer >>> 'smart >>> TV' boxes. Its then their job to handle it. Not the BBC's. >> >> I must disagree. >> >> The BBC has historically maintained broadcasting in standards long after they >> had become obsolete. BBC2 launched in the new 625 line service in 1964 and >> the >> BBC had internally migrated everything to this new standard by 1969. The BBC >> maintained a downconverted 405 line service until 1985. It was supposedly >> only >> scrapped because they needed to bring the service down for maintenance for a >> while, and received no complaints. > > On the other hand they stopped broadcasting analogue TV signals, and some > people complained, and those complaints were ignored. Some people received > help converting, but that was a DCMS scheme, the BBC was only the > administrator of the scheme. > > Maintaining and running a a large number of versions of a piece of software > and everything that surrounds it for long periods of time while also > upgrading it to provide new features for new users is just not practical. > > -- > David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive > > Please stop rolling your Jargon Dice and explain the problem > you are having to me in plain English, using small words. > -- John Hardin, in the Monastery > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Deprecated features to be removed in next release (2.97)
I think that's the point. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 8 Sep 2016, at 03:31, artisticforge . <artisticfo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > hello Vagelis > > that is not going to leave much code left. > > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Vangelis forthnet > <northmed...@the.forthnet.gr> wrote: >> On Wed Aug 31 00:28:27 BST 2016, I wrote: >>> >>> The flash (RTMP) on-demand modes >>> (Radio+TV) will be axed in 2.98: >>> >>> https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/milestone/8 >> >> >> ... Apparently, the maintainer has had a change of heart; FLASH modes have >> been rescheduled to be terminated in the next release, 2.97, too, along with >> the rest of the deprecated options... >> >> A real shame, if you ask me, since the flashmodes are the only ones that >> support resuming (via rtmpdump) in the case of time-outs, due to >> fickle/flakey connections... >> We'll be left with DASH/HLS (radio) or HLS (video) segmented modes only, >> which abort and re-fetch from the start when the connection, for whatever >> random reason, drops out... >> >> OTOH, the RTMP support code, the backbone of GiP up until a few versions >> back (2.94 and earlier), constitutes a major part of the existing code and >> I kind of understand the logic behind the coder's intent to do away with it; >> what I fail to justify is the haste to get rid of it while it's still >> working very reliably... Dum spiro, spero... >> >> Regards, V. >> >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > > > -- > terry l. ridder ><> > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Audio/Video Out of Sync
I believe this approach is specifically to slow down get_iplayer's use of the network far below what would be considered it's reasonable share. This is based on a request someone made to be able to do this, base on an unsupported hypothesis that get_iplayer only fetches invalid chunks because it is fetching much faster than any real client. I offer as a counter example the iPlayer built into my Humax HDR Fox T2 PVR. This fetches the programme absolutely as fast as it can, totally saturates my broadband link doing it, and saves it to file. It plays the programme from the file, and provided the fetch proceeds faster than the playback it doesn't stall. But it does nothing to stop the fetch getting way ahead of playback, which it does on my 79mbps downstream FTTC. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK On 16 Aug 2016, at 22:03, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: >> From: iz >> Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 20:44 > >> If you are using OS X, this approach worked for me: > >> https://dreness.com/blog/archives/843 > >> Just change "dummynet out" to "dummynet in" and change the bandwidth limit >> to desired value. > > Maybe I'm missing something, but I find that incredible. The Mac is sold as > a machine which allows creative people to create without having to bother > with technicalities. If I search for Linux traffic management or Windows > traffic management I can see that there are programs which do that sort of > thing, but they are only needed if I want to do clever things like running a > heavily loaded server where the load has to be balanced between processes. I > have 5 programs open on my task bar and 58 processes. Windows allocates > resources between them as they demand them without my even having to think > about it, and has been doing a reasonable job of it since Windows 95. Maybe > you and David are doing clever things with your machines, but then I don't > understand why you would run get_iplayer on the same machine. > > My inclination would be to buy a Raspberry Pi and run get_iplayer on that. > > > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Olympics 2016 RedButton content, offered as catch-up
The transformation in my case is that iPlayer has ruined the Olympics for me. We used to get a daily highlights show on an HD channel between 30 mins and an hour long, that I recorded on my PVR and watched later. Now I have to find stuff myself from a set of 2 minute highlight clips, which show so little of each event as to rob them of any drama and tension. Furthermore the picture quality is significantly worse than Freeview HD, there's pixelisation all over the place in fast moving parts. Yes the full events are there but I have to go hunting for them, and I've given up several times because it takes a while to trawl through finding stuff. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 13 Aug 2016, at 17:03, Alan Milewczyk <a...@soulman1949.com> wrote: > >> On 13/08/16 10:22, RS wrote: >> >> The BBC ought to be shouting about catch up coverage of the Olympics from >> the roof tops because it transforms the way the Olympics can be watched. > > They certainly spend enough time telling us how this or that is "now > available on iPlayer"! ;-) Seriously though, the Beeb are to be commended at > the way they make programming available online. We've come a long way since > the days of VCRs! > > A > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: OT: why were BBC archives deleted or destroyed?
Plus nobody thought they were of any value. Before VHS, DVDs, selling radio series on cassette or whatever, and iPlayer, once something had been broadcast the only value it had was if the BBC wanted to repeat broadcast it. They couldn't see the future, and didn't have a "library" mindset. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 4 Aug 2016, at 14:20, Colin Law <clan...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 4 August 2016 at 14:06, artisticforge . <artisticfo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello >> >> This is off-topic but it is of importance to the people who listen to the >> BBC. >> >> Why were BBC archives deleted or destroyed? > > Incompetence and cock-up mostly I imagine. > > Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Disabling television mode
I believe Roger is asking how he can ensure that he does not break the law by using get_iplayer to accidentally download TV from a location he does not have a licence for. I suspect some sort of command line option or config file entry that forces radio only would do the job, but I don't know if one exists. Roger's question and your answer demonstrates the two different groups of people on this list: those that want to stay within the law (with or without a TV licence) and those that don't. It's been established in the past that list policy is only to support the "stay within the law" option. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 12 Jul 2016, at 09:53, CJB <chrisjbr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > How does the September 1 requirement affect get_iplayer TV then? And - > yes - I do have a licence although with all of the junk programmes and > repeats ad nauseum I frequently wonder why. > > The Beeb's online 'Store' is still a lemon - it never worked for me - > and I had to claim a non-delivery refund through Paypal Customer > Support when a file I'd purchased refused to download. > > I fully expect to see a rise in torrenting after September. > > CJB. > >> On 12/07/2016, Roger Bell_West <ro...@firedrake.org> wrote: >> We know that as of 1 September a TV licence will be required to >> download TV programmes from the BBC. >> >> I have a hosted server away from my premises, which is mains-powered >> equipment, and therefore not covered by my own TV licence (if any); >> the hosting company quite reasonably has no interest in covering it >> either. >> >> So I want to ensure that it will be unable to download TV programmes, >> even by accident, while still remaining available for radio. Any >> suggestions? >> >> R >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer >> > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [ANN] get_iplayer 2.95 released
Really? I use Vista at home and Win 7 at work and I have to say there's not a lot of difference between the two. Drivers are freely interchangeable, most desktop features are very similar, the underlying kernel is only mildly different. If you feel Vista is that bad then I assume you have a similar view about Win 7? -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > Because Vista is a humongous pile of steaming dingos' kidneys, and only > dedicated masochists or the terminally computer illiterate continue to use it. > > Mark ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [ANN] get_iplayer 2.95 released
It's a matter of how much time I have to spend on things. I have a Pi model B (512MB) running dnsmasq as a DNS cache. But I go months between logging into it, and I cross my fingers when I change things that I don't break it. Installing get_iplayer on it is way more than I'm comfortable getting into. As for being encouraged to upgrade to more secure versions of windows, what like Windows 10 which could any time it chooses delete get_iplayer or any other software Microsoft decide is a bit dodgy legally? No thanks. I don't have a long term plan, I'm hoping Microsoft see sense and extend Windows 7 or something like that. Failing that I may either stick with Vista forever or upgrade to Win 7 and stick with that forever. All the alternatives are very unappealing, and that includes running Linux. I have some software I need that only runs under Windows. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 3 Jul 2016, at 20:31, artisticforge . <artisticfo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > hello > > A Raspberry Pi Version 3 running Raspbian (Debian Linux Jessie) will > run get_iplayer-2.95 very nicely. > Run the Pi headless and use SSH/VNC to communicate. > Inexpensive way to retain get_iplayer use. > > I have Pi acting as DNS servers, HTTP servers & Mail Servers. Great > little computers. > So there is little at the end of the tunnel and it is NOT an oncoming train. > > > >> On Sun, Jul 3, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> wrote: >> Another piece of software dropping Vista support almost a year before the >> end of official Microsoft support, sigh. Well I haven't used get_iplayer for >> several months, this probably means I never will. >> >> What annoys me is XP was well supported by third parties for several years >> after Microsoft ceased support. Whereas Vista is being dropped by third >> parties long before Microsoft support ceases. Why? My laptop came with Vista >> installed, it does what I need, why do I get a much shorter life out of it >> than XP purchasers got? >> >> -- >> Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> >> Cambridge, UK >> >>> On 3 Jul 2016, at 18:18, dinkypumpkin <dinkypump...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Release notes: >>> >>> https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/wiki/release295 >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> get_iplayer mailing list >>> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >>> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer >> >> >> ___ >> get_iplayer mailing list >> get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org >> http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer > > > > -- > terry l. ridder ><> ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [ANN] get_iplayer 2.95 released
Another piece of software dropping Vista support almost a year before the end of official Microsoft support, sigh. Well I haven't used get_iplayer for several months, this probably means I never will. What annoys me is XP was well supported by third parties for several years after Microsoft ceased support. Whereas Vista is being dropped by third parties long before Microsoft support ceases. Why? My laptop came with Vista installed, it does what I need, why do I get a much shorter life out of it than XP purchasers got? -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 3 Jul 2016, at 18:18, dinkypumpkin <dinkypump...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Release notes: > > https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/wiki/release295 > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Offtopic noise: Re: BBC iPlayer viewers now need a...
The web itself didn't exist until the early 1990s, and it took a bit longer than that for web forums to appear. Internet email is nearly 20 years older than that and was in quite wide use when I started using it in the mid 1980s. I'm less sure about dates for newsgroups but I believe they are also substantially older than the web, by at least a decade. So not from remotely similar eras, unless by that you mean "the couple of decades when only techie people used the internet". -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 18 May 2016, at 12:36, C E Macfarlane <c.e.macfarl...@macfh.co.uk> wrote: > > Email, newsgroups, and web forums all date from a similar era! ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Offtopic noise: Re: BBC iPlayer viewers now need a...
I don't do newsgroups, so for me that's actually worse than switching to a forum. I can join a web forum if I have to, but I currently have no means to read newsgroups nor do I have any interest in finding one. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 16 May 2016, at 21:47, C E Macfarlane <c.e.macfarl...@macfh.co.uk> wrote: > > So, if we are wondering whether to discontinue, I would suggest that > migrating to a newsgroup would be a better alternative than to a web-based > system. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Offtopic noise: Re: BBC iPlayer viewers now need a...
This is indeed the "modern" way to do replies, and email clients like my iPad make it very hard work to do anything else. But the argument against this is that someone seeing it fresh (eg. CC an extra recipient) has to read the entire email backwards (bottom to top) to get the context. 25 years ago you always replied to emails by adding your text to the bottom, or replying inline in the quotes, and email clients expected it to be done that way. I'm not entirely sure when this changed, but I get the feeling Microsoft had a lot to do with it. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 16 May 2016, at 20:38, tellyaddict <tellyaddic...@gmx.co.uk> wrote: > > I don't think that was quite what Dennis meant. Obviously a reply like you've > just done needs to be done in that way to make any sense. > > I was taught when I first started using this list that you were supposed to > post new replies at the top of the email with the message you are replying to > underneath. > > I also find it harder to read messages that are sent to the list where the > old message is at the top with the reply underneath. When you reply to any > other email, the person replying will usually put their response at the top > with the old responses underneath so it makes sense to me to do the same here. > >> I guess you won't be reading these replies then, all of which have >> been nicely spaced out and responded to each of your points in turn, >> at the relevant point, instead of all in one go at the top where the >> reader then has to guess which reply was to which point. > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Offtopic noise: Re: BBC iPlayer viewers now need a...
I don't follow the forums, and I don't use get_iplayer often. But when I do I'm moderately up to date with the current situation thanks to this list. If the list stopped I'd probably stop using get_iplayer and turn to other means for the occasional programme I want on iPlayer. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 16 May 2016, at 19:32, David Woodhouse <dw...@infradead.org> wrote: > >> On Sat, 2016-05-14 at 00:38 +0100, Peter S Kirk wrote: >> >> Stop the OT poltical campainging posts: >> "Over 275,000 of us signed an emergency petition to keep the BBC >> independent" >> >> List is for GiP discussion and help ONLY. >> >> Respect that and take politics elsewhere. > > I have barred that thread, although I don't generally favour censorship > as a solution to anything. > > However... it seems that this list is mostly used these days for > offtopic crap, and for technical queries which get referred to the > forums. > > Is there still a benefit to having this list at all? Would we be better > off shutting it down entirely? > > Likewise the git repository on git.infradead.org — if development is > happening on github, there's no point in just mirroring it here, is > there? I was happy to provide services (and even try to learn a bit of > perl) when Phil Lewis bowed out, but it now seems that there's a fairly > capable community around it and it's not clear what benefit I continue > to provide... > > -- > dwmw2 > > > ___ > get_iplayer mailing list > get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org > http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Outlook Express 6 on WinXP and this list
I too found the "get yourself a real computer" offensive. Yes some people make life hard for themselves unnecessarily, but others have little choice in what they run for various reasons. Why should someone who's XP computer does want they want spend time, effort and money upgrading it? OK linux is free, but maybe they're unable to learn to use, don't have the time, or have software they need to use which only runs on Windows or even just XP. I used to write email software for a living, including RFC-822 etc. The golden rule was "be conservative in what you originate, and generous in what you accept". This mailing list clearly violates the latter half and I suggest it violates the first half too the way it handles replies. I run Vista on my PC. How soon before I'm told to get a real computer? I need Windows for some software, I already have Vista, why should I spend money on something else? -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 6 Apr 2016, at 23:15, Vangelis forthnet <northmed...@the.forthnet.gr> > wrote: > > On Wed Apr 6 13:12:40 BST 2016, David Woodhouse replied: > >> Here's a nickel, kid. Get yourself a real computer. > > ... Sadly, I am no more a kid; and despite my plea, > you couldn't resist it, could you? ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Request for BBC Contact - OT
This is not true. I have close to 100 DVDs each of Region 1 and Region 2. All bar one of the Region 1s are region coded, and 95% of the region 2s are (some are actually regions 2 and 4). These are a mix of feature films and TV series. It is however true that Blu Ray zone coding is dying. I have a lot less blu rays, but all the ones marked Zone A are uncoded and half of the Zone B ones are (the rest are coded B as advertised). Off topic I know, but I was conflicted about allowing incorrect information to stand. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 6 Apr 2016, at 16:05, RS <richard...@zoho.com> wrote: > As for region coding of DVDs, it is mainly a bluff. I only have a few DVDs > labelled Region 1, but none of them is region coded. Of the Region 2 DVDs I > have which I have looked at, the majority are not region coded. One > organisation which does code its DVDs as Region 2 is the BBC. > ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: 320kbps radio audio available via MPEG-DASH
- Original Message - From: "Budge" <aje...@errichel.co.uk> To: <get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org> Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2016 5:07 PM Subject: Re: 320kbps radio audio available via MPEG-DASH Please could we not have a golden ears debate here. Just stick to the facts of what is available and how it can work or be used with GiP. Alastair. I quite agree, but I couldn't let what Tom said go without comment. And my ears are not golden. -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Audacity, get_iplayer & Windows 10
MS are going to make the Win 10 update (on Win 7) an Important update? Really? Because that will automatically install it on many PCs, my dad's included. This is very bad behaviour. Do you have a reference from Microsoft for this? -- Owen Smith <owen.sm...@cantab.net> Cambridge, UK > On 19 Nov 2015, at 00:38, Vangelis forthnet <northmed...@the.forthnet.gr> > wrote: > >> On Wed Nov 18 20:54:40 GMT 2015, Nick Payne wrote: >> >> You just define the connection as metered and updates won't >> automatically download when you're using it: >> http://lifehacker.com/enable-metered-connection-to-delay-windows-10-updates-1723316525 > > Pardon me Nick, but your link relates to > further Win10 system updates, i.e. > how to control the delivery of them > once you are already on Windows 10; > The issue Chris is having is how to avoid > the updates to Win10 that Microsoft is > pushing (as optional ones now, > as important ones come next year) > on his existing OS (Win7 Starter)... ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
I have no children so don't use schools, but I still pay for them and am happy to do so. I regard the BBC as being on the same footing, everyone in the UK should pay for it. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 7 Jul 2015, at 12:31, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
The problem with paying from the BBC out of general taxation is it would be an easy target for government cuts. There would be nothing left even faster than is happening now. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 7 Jul 2015, at 15:52, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: You prove my point. TV should not be funded by a licence fee, but by direct grant from the government, funded by general taxation. No other tax is directly related any more, not even NI for the NHS. That is what the licence fee would be if all had to pay it specifically. We don't have a schools tax, fuel duty and RFL pay for far more than roads etc, etc. GT -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Owen Smith Sent: 07 July 2015 13:18 To: get_iplayer Subject: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? I have no children so don't use schools, but I still pay for them and am happy to do so. I regard the BBC as being on the same footing, everyone in the UK should pay for it. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 7 Jul 2015, at 12:31, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
You think the BBC is left wing. I happen to think they have a right wing bias. That's the problem for a broadcaster trying to do real news, whichever government is in power will hate the BBC for pointing out various things the government does wrong. So the BBC will die by a thousand cuts over the next 30 years, as the pressure from Murdoch funded (legally) MPs means something is taken from the BBC at every General Election. Personally I believe the BBC's funding levels should be restored to what they were 10 years ago in real terms, including having the S4C and World Service budgets put back. This would be a significant rise in the licence fee and I would be glad to pay it. The other problem is there are now a lot more over 75s than there used to be, and this will only increase. It should be changed to a free TV licence 10 years after you got your state pension, so it does gradually go up. But once the cost of this is transferred to the BBC it will be almost impossible to ever get the age increased. What happens when a quarter of the population is over 75? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 6 Jul 2015, at 20:29, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but the BBC have themselves to blame for the current antipathy from the present government with their dreadful left wing bias, which was cringing in the recent election coverage. However I do totally agree that if the baby goes out with the bathwater it would be a real shame as I agree much of what they offer is excellent. GT -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of michael norman Sent: 06 July 2015 18:57 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? Mike Some real anti-BBC comments being posted on the forums. While I think the BBC can be pretty arrogant as an organisation (for example when dealing with complaints) I'm a great supporter of PBS broadcasting and I think the range and quality of programmes produced by the Corporation is just astounding, especially when compared to some of the dross put out by the Commercial channels. Having spent a fair bit of time abroad in recent years, I've not come across a broadcaster which can even come close to rivalling the BBC whether it's radio or TV. I've never had any dealings with the BBC other than as a viewer so I cannot comment on whether it's top-heavy with management, etc. For me, the licence fee is excellent value for money - not a day goes by without me referring to the BBC website, reading news etc, ditto listening to radio and viewing TV. And the iPlayer is now providing the type of TV I dreamed about 20 years ago (knocking spots off ITV's offering) and, of course, get_iplayer is an invaluable bolt-on. I do think the loophole that allows viewers to watch TV output online (as long as it's not live) does need to be plugged. I'm more than happy to pay the licence fee and would hate any move towards subscriptions fees whether it's for TV or iPlayer access, equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. Alan Agreed, fortunately without having had to experience being abroad without the BBC. The crucial point I was trying to make in the context of this list was and is how does the bbc plug what they perceive as the iPlayer gap. Its ironic that iPlayer is streets ahead technically of all the other catch up services, particularly ITVs offering, aside from anything about quality content the BBC started the whole thing and have made it work. What happens next ? I don't know, I fear the worst. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Localhost not starting up ...
msmpeng.exe goes mad occasionally consuming 100% cpu, usually after scanning the entire hard disc. A quick reboot of the machine fixes it without compromising security. Your fix leaves you wide open, you have disabled your virus scanner unless you have others running. But that would mean you would have had multiple running previously, which isn't a good idea either. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 6 Jun 2015, at 16:41, CJB chrisjbr...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for the links. Yes - it was a resources issue. Now Gip flies, and other web pages open up immediately. There were two culprits - hogging 100% of the cpu - that I've now got rid of. Using Task manager and Resource Manager the hogs were: 1/ msmpeng.exe - an anti-malware executable from MSE or MS Defender. Using MSConfig this has now been disabled - never to be restarted; and 2/ an Abode Acrobat plugin for Chrome - two versions of which were running and both hogging 100% of the cpu. These have now been closed down. No wonder nothing else ojuld run, the above apps were causing the cpu to remain at 100%, with a huge amount of disk accessing which I presume was the swap file paging. Now all is well - and I can even download Springwatch!!! CJB. On 06/06/2015, Vangelis forthnet northmed...@the.forthnet.gr wrote: On Fri Jun 5 23:29:47 BST 2015, CJB wrote: Things were great yesterday (Thursday) (snip) Sadly things today (Friday) have not gone well. I'm out of my depth here (???) - I was about to say that only YOU know what could have changed in your system between yesterday and today (e.g. MS updates, MSE definitions files, other AntiVirus used definition updates etc.) when I just saw a quasi-relevant post on the Support Forum: https://squarepenguin.co.uk/forums/topic/web-pvr-manager-fails-to-fork-after-a-day-or-so/ (one system also being Win7). Do not have a Win7 box here to try and reproduce... Given the user share of Win7, if this is a more general issue, expect more reports in the list/forum... In the meantime, can you ping localhost? In an administrator command prompt window (Start - Start search field type: cmd - right click the cmd.exe result and run as admin - this opens: C:\Windows\system32 type: ping localhost (without quotes), if localhost (i.e. your own computer) is running, you'll get something like: Pinging (name of PC) [::1] from ::1 with 32 bytes of data: Reply from ::1: time1ms Reply from ::1: time1ms Reply from ::1: time1ms Reply from ::1: time1ms Ping statistics for ::1: Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss), Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms C:\Windows\system32 It may also be that another app on your machine is using port 1935, so there might be a port conflict... Or for whatever reason port 1935 may have been blocked (firewall rule?) As a longshot, please also try http://stackoverflow.com/a/873778 (backup your hosts file first: C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts - if you mess it up you'll lose all internet connections... Search the net on how to enable hosts file editing on Win7) This issue has effectively stopped me from downloading everything and anything. This is an over-dramatised hyperbole... Have you tried the CLI? If it works (most probably), it can do the same (and much more) as the GUI - ample instructions on how to use the CLI on the GiP Wiki: https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/wiki/documentation#command-usage https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/wiki/manpage If the CLI doesn't work at all, then you've got a serious problem on your hands... Regards ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: GiP v2.93 / 2.94- snafus
IE9 is incredibly slow on Vista (yes I'm the world's other Vista user). After a couple of days of using it I downgraded to IE8. For about a year that was fine. Now that XP is out of support (IE8 was the last for XP) there are an increasing number of web sites that simply don't work on IE8. So I now use Chrome on Vista. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 5 Jun 2015, at 00:41, Vangelis forthnet northmed...@the.forthnet.gr wrote: On Thu Jun 4 21:40:56 BST 2015, M Clark wrote: cookies set by 127.0.0.1 my address bar has http://localhost:1935/ Oops...you are right! 127.0.0.1 was changed to localhost many months ago, to deal with changes brought on by IE11 on Windows: http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2013-November/005205.html As my VistaSP2 machine can only go as far as IE9, I never really modified the pvr_manager.url shortcut file... In any case, Firefox is the browser I use, so no harm done... :-) Cheers ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [ANN] get_iplayer 2.93 released
I feel the loss of ability to search for signed or audio described versions is a great shame. I don't need either of these, but for some people they are essential. The BBC is doing such people a great dis-service by removing this metadata and should be ashamed. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 3 Jun 2015, at 12:07, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: Release notes here: https://github.com/get-iplayer/get_iplayer/wiki/release293 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: OT Live Streaming Radio 4 News
When did dinkypumpkin stop posting here? I subscribe almost entirely for the postings announcing new get_iplayer releases. If they're not being made here any more, then were can they be found please? And why did dinkypumpkin stop posting here? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK (And I personally have no problem with it, but both the list maintainer (David Woodhouse) and the code maintainer (dinkypumpkin - sadly no longer posts here) have made it clear that mention of geo-blocking circumvention methods is not tolerated - especially in a public list that is indexed by Google and, most probably, monitored by BBC personnel...) Regards, V. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Sampling frequency on Radio programmes - Taking it off topic
You'd need to record this new reference piano in the same recording venue, with the same furnishings (curtains, seats etc.) and a similar sized and potentially attired audience if one was present for the original recording. Otherwise you're making it sound like the same manufacturer's piano played in a different venue and/or under different conditions. I'm with other commenters, I want to hear the original recording as it was when it was pristine without clicks, pops and aging etc, not after some misguided fool has turned it into something else. I applaud David Mellor on his Classic FM slot for regularly playing vintage recordings of historical significance. Last Sunday it was a 1945 recording of the Grieg Piano Concerto conducted by Stokowski and with a famous british composer who knew Grieg well on the piano, might have been Vaughn Williams but my memory fails me. In the past Mellor played Dvorak's cello concerto by Rostrapovich, recorded live at the proms with a Soviet orchestra when Soviet tanks were rolling into Prague to crush the Prague Spring. It was an electrifying performance. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 28 Apr 2015, at 11:56, Roger Tricker ro...@tricker.co.uk wrote: I thought that what was meant was that a recording was made on a, near tonally identical, piano and compared with the original. Then, as the piano sound was deemed to be near identical, the extra 'noise' could seen and removed. The new piano sound can then be discarded leaving the original piano sound. Roger Sent from my iPad On 28 Apr 2015, at 11:32, michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: I am not so forgiving. It sounded like good-old-fashioned-British arrogance to me! The point is that by removing clicks, rumble, etc he is merely restoring the recording to as pristine condition as can reasonably be done given that the original recording is damaged by such artifacts and is no longer actually in said pristine condition. By changing the sound of the piano, he is going beyond mere restoration and actually putting something into the recording that was never there in the first place. Absolutely he should NOT be doing this. He may think that he's merely making up for the less advanced recording technology of earlier times, but the punters of those times accepted that technology at face value and enjoyed it nevertheless, and a modern listener who wishes to explore old original recordings would expect to do likewise, not find themselves actually exploring what has been artificially injected into a recording by modern technology. What would be the point of that? If you must have a modern sound, why not buy a modern recording? It's tampering with the historical record (here I mean 'record' in the 'written history' sense). I get a sense that some people who use digital technology rapidly get a sort of megalomania where, because it's so easy, they fiddle-faddle and tweak everything under the sun, regardless of actual benefit or otherwise so derived. It's the same sort of arrogance that (being at my most generous) removed all the master tape hiss from some early Fleetwood Mac CDs, but in so doing left us with a gutted sound that was inferior to the original LPs. It's the same sort of arrogance that feels the need to insert the sound of a buzzard over the soundtrack of a natural history scene, even though there's no buzzard in sight, or, even worse, the scene is of a different bird of prey which makes a different noise. After all it's so easy, you don't have to make the camera crew go back out there to refilm the scene to suit the editor's lack of taste, by merely pressing some buttons he can ruin a perfectly decent shot entirely on his own at little or no extra expense to the company. Regards, Charles. www.macfh.co.uk/CEMH.html I couldn’t agree more. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Sampling frequency on Radio programmes
They're converting from AAC to MP3 ie. from one lossy codec to another? Surely the audio quality loss caused by that will outstrip any sample rate conversion issues. Why can't they generate the MP3 from sample rate converted lossless? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 27 Apr 2015, at 11:09, Jim web w...@audiomisc.co.uk wrote: In article 54ba6598cf...@audiomisc.co.uk, Jim web w...@audiomisc.co.uk wrote: Afraid I don't know at present. But I'll inquire and see what I can find out. I've been told that the 48k - 44.1k happens when acc is tapped out of the distribution cache and converted to mp3. That's then fed back though the cache and thence on to the user-facing servers. Apparently the general wish of the device makers was for this as a 'lowest common denominator' to maximise the number of 'legacy' devices that could accept the resulting shoutcasts. So aac - mp3 transcode and the rate change are done in the same process. In essence, AIUI it happens before the user-facing servers but after the aac generation. As I think the French (almost!) say. It's not magnificent. It's a railway station! 8-] Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Get iPlayer
How about changing this mailing list so you can only post to it if you are subscribed to the list? Is there any requirement for unsubscribed addresses to be able to post? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 19 Mar 2015, at 11:00, Roy South mtasgran...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: I believe that the address list of get iPlayer has been hacked. I have been receiving some 'junk' mail all with attachments over the last few days, they are about a court action in the U.S. All with the getiPlayer end of article wording! Roy ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: radio sample rates.
- Original Message - From: Jim web w...@audiomisc.co.uk To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 5:20 PM Subject: Re: radio sample rates. The change seems to have occurred when I changed from using 2.90 to 2.91 but I've used the same command options thoughout. Change of BBC mediaselector perhaps? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: HDTV specs
Yes, 1280 x 720 is normal for iPlayer HD and they only include stereo sound even if the original broadcast had 5.1 sound. BBC channels broadcast in HD over DVB-T2 look much better, and sometimes have 5.1 sound which I use. I play all this stuff on my TV, get_iplayer downloads play fine on my Humax HDR Fox T2 PVR. I find watching on a PC a poorer experience for either iPlayer HD downloads or DVB-T2 broadcasts (I can extract them from my PVR). -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Mar 2015, at 13:04, Jim Lesurf w...@audiomisc.co.uk wrote: Is 1280 x 720 the norm for the hdtv best-quality? I can't tell as I only have one example which doesn't give me a chance to do any stats at all! Plan to mainly remain interested in audio, but am curious about how hdtv via gip and FF compare with via DVB-T2. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Query re BBC On Demand Radio
No-one knows what is going to happen. For Listen Again it's not clear whether just WMA is being switched off, or all streams in the current format but AAC over HLS will become available, or whether the entire thing will be reduced to just MP3 podcasts ie. it isn't a complete Listen Again system. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 17 Feb 2015, at 15:53, Prisca pri...@leonin.co.uk wrote: I don't fully understand how get_iplayer works, even though I have managed to learn how to use it - mostly. I do, however, have a question as to what is likely to happen at the end of February when the WMA/AAC streams for on demand radio are turned off. Will this have any impact on get_iplayer? I've never really figured out where the streams I download actually come from. Sorry to sound dense, but some of us only manage to get things working by trial and error and keeping our fingers crossed. A very simple explanation would be much appreciated. Thanks to everyone who is responsible for get_iplayer. It really is a very useful program to have found since the demise of Radio Downloader. Thanks Prisca ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Filtering of Channels in Web PVR mode
S4C is a Welsh language channel. It was what Wales got in the 1980s when the rest of the UK got Channel 4. Ever since then there has been a rash of households in Wales putting up large aerials trying to receive from English transmitters to get Channel 4 instead, or getting Sky if they couldn't get it by terrestrial. That was back in the analogue days, it's rather easier to get both S4C and Channel 4 these days. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 15 Jan 2015, at 17:02, Shiner dodgy-cu...@ntlworld.com wrote: What is S4C ??? -- Shiner ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Filtering of Channels in Web PVR mode
Since a while after S4C became a BBC funded channel. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 15 Jan 2015, at 15:25, TQ t...@tqvideo.co.uk wrote: Since when was S4c material available on iPlayer? -- TQ via webmail ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Slow radio downloads - a bit off topic
Did anyone check if your mysterious line drops and restarts coincided with the shifts of any particular cleaner? You know, the one that unplugged the dslam in order to plug the hoover in (don't laugh, crap like this happens). -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 19 Nov 2014, at 12:57, Jim web w...@audiomisc.co.uk wrote: In article 546c7cb5.70...@soulman1949.com, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: On 18/11/2014 19:01, Jeremy Nicoll - ml get_iplayer wrote: Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: In that case, I'd better not mention the 156Mbps downloads and 11.6Mbps uploads I get from Virgin here in Greater Manchester. My 60 Mbps connection is also a Virgin one; what actual download speeds of BBC radio tv programmes using get_iplayer do you get? Not sure how typical these are but I just timed a film and got 9.6Mbps and then downloaded the three hour Today programme from Radio 4 and got 15.5Mbps. Subjectively, the speeds seemed fairly normal. FWIW until a few weeks ago I was using copper from the exchange and typically got speeds around 3 mbps. Then FTTC arrived and I upgraded to that. Since then the speeds have varied wildly from time to time. Max over 70, min about 14 mbps. I assume this is simply a matter of how 'busy' the system is at some bottlenecks. For some years I've had a baffling behaviour where the connection is dropped once a day. BT and my ISP monitored this and confirmed the connection from them to my router was being lost and then refound a few seconds later, prompting a restart of the connection. This produced a gap of a min or two in useful connection. This happens each day for weeks. Then vanishes for weeks. Then resumes for weeks. Most curiously the time of day varies slightly from each day to the next. It seems to follow being about half an hour before sunset and the local street lights coming on! So was mid afternoon in winter, but mid evening in summer. Quite a pest when I wanted to listen to a Prom live via iplayer. Hence I gave up and used 'listen again' instead. My old connection also tended to become so congested in the evenings that I'd get pauses in the iplayer anyway. (This is all for *radio* of course. HDTV was hopeless.) I've not yet checked to see if the problem continues now my connection is via FTTC. No one at BT or ISP could explain it, although they could see it happening in their monitoring. Be interested to hear if anyone else has had the same sort of weird behavior that seems to be phased with sunset! Maybe its vampire bats on out local line. 8-] Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: mpeg-dash and get_iplayer?
The mpeg-dash test streams, including the binaural and proms quadraphonic, work in Chrome. I know several people that listened to them and one that recorded the quad. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 12 Nov 2014, at 13:05, Jim w...@audiomisc.co.uk wrote: In article 20141112122101.ga26...@firedrake.org, Roger Bell_West ro...@firedrake.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 12:06:34PM +, Jim wrote: I'm now wondering what the impact on get_iplayer will be if/when the BBC move over to mpeg-dash as seems to be their intent? Obviously, it will stop working. Maybe someone will come up with a new version or equivalent program. Maybe not. There's no point in speculating until the new format is made available and we can take a look at it. See http://rdmedia.bbc.co.uk/radio4/index.html as discussed at http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio4/posts/Saturday-Drama-Under-Milk-Wood-in-Surround-Sound for an example. There were some earlier experimental streams but they're no longer up. I appreciate that a new program would be needed. What I don't know is if this is even practical, let alone how, etc. At present I couldn't even try the binaural streams using FireFox as it seems to still not support the method. Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: OT - List mailing (was iplayer audio to lpcm)
If the message-id is the same, then the email is asserting itself to be the same message. If the mailing list is changing headers enough to make it essentially a different message then it should also change the message-id. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 12 Nov 2014, at 18:58, Jeremy Nicoll - ml get_iplayer jn.ml.gti...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk wrote: Budgie aje...@errichel.co.uk wrote: On 10/11/14 17:36, Jeremy Nicoll - ml get_iplayer wrote: The mails in this thread that people have thoughtfully CCed to me personally have arrived, but the mail-list ones have not. I have sent this using Reply List and not CCd it to you, so will you receive it I wonder? Yes, I did and would expect to... Thinking more about this, if you send a mail to the mail list and CC that to me, the mail list copy should go to the mail list server and get its extra headers etc added to it before that is then sent to my email address at AAISP. The CCed copy goes directly from you to my email address at AAISP (and perhaps/probably gets there first). Although the meaningful content should be the same in both, many of the headers and, for example, appended sig text about mail list TsCs is clearly going to be different in the two copies. So that suggests that AAISP's definition of they're the same mail isn't a very good one; maybe they just look at the message-id. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: iplayer audio to lpcm
This probably explains why I only get one copy even when people reply to my posts. My email provider (Aluminati) probably does the same filtering of two copies in my inbox down to one. I didn't realise this is at all common. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 10 Nov 2014, at 17:36, Jeremy Nicoll - ml get_iplayer jn.ml.gti...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk wrote: David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org wrote: On Sat, 2014-11-08 at 23:54 +, Square Penguin wrote: Quick question - how do you deal with CC's in your inbox and duplicate messages in mailing list folders (assuming you filter to folders)? Simply ignore the duplicates or do you have a filtering/deletion scheme in place? I get a copy in the list folder, and a copy in my inbox. Lucky you. (I mean it.) I found recently that this doesn't happen for me; it's not a (local) mail client problem but instead my mail provider (AAISP) whose system detects two copies of the same mail being delivered to the same mailbox on their server, and stores only one copy. My POP3 collection then only collects that single copy. To get both I'd need to define filter rules on their server to route personal mails to one server mailbox and list mails to another mailbox, then fetch from both. And even then, if eg someone CCed something to two different personal addresses of mine, those would be routed to the same server mailbox, and I'd only get one copy. I'm not wildly happy about that... If I had just one or two email addresses I might be willing to have a mailbox for each one... but I don't. I've hundreds of addresses, and I do not want the hassle of having to define matching mailboxes for each of them. The mails in this thread that people have thoughtfully CCed to me personally have arrived, but the mail-list ones have not. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: iplayer audio to lpcm
Blasted mailing list, I sent the message below as a personal reply, AGAIN. I simply cannot get my brain to accept how this list works. I'm on half a dozen other mailing lists all of which work the other way round ie. replies go to the list. Mutter. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 12:54, Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: This is decoding a lossy format (AAC), not encoding. Provided there are no digital volume controls or similar being applied, the results should be identical regardless of which software is used to decode it. It's the definition of AAC that dictates what an AAC stream decodes to. Encoding yes there is plenty of room for different implementations to produce different results, but not decoding. Otherwise it wouldn't be a correct decode of the AAC. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 12:26, Jim Lesurf j...@audiomisc.co.uk wrote: Thanks, I'll look at the above. One of the things I'm curious about is the relative performance (in terms of quality, etc) of ffmpeg versus avcodec. I come to this from being a long term user of ffmpeg, but knowing nothing about the forking or its effects. Given my past I tend to go for using ffmpeg as my first intent. But would/will change if it is advantageous. Jim ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: iplayer audio to lpcm
The person that runs this mailing list has VERY firm views about how they should work. This is at odds with every other mailing I have ever been on, which must be around 50 by now. He feels it should work the same way as a direct email sent to multiple people, in that Reply goes just to the sender and Reply to All goes to everyone (but To the sender and CC the list). Myself and some others disagree, I think this is the wrong way for mailing lists to work and lists should change the sender to be from the list and/or change the Reply-To header. But this argument has been done to death recently on the list and there is no point having it again. The list is not going to change how it works, this has been made very clear. The person who runs the list runs it his way, regardless of any majority view there might or might not be on the list. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 14:10, Jim Lesurf j...@audiomisc.co.uk wrote: On 08 Nov, Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: Blasted mailing list, I sent the message below as a personal reply, AGAIN. I simply cannot get my brain to accept how this list works. I'm on half a dozen other mailing lists all of which work the other way round ie. replies go to the list. Mutter. I've also been a bit puzzled/confused by the list. I'd expected emails to the list to just generate responses via the list. But various responses have come both direct and via the list. I don't mind cc'ing back when I get direct responses in parallel. But it does mean I am getting duplicatics and will have to set up a filter to ensure these all go to the correct storage 'box' here. Is this all the norm here, or have I done something wrong? If the latter, my apologies. Not experienced it on other lists where all by default goes only via the list. Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: iplayer audio to lpcm
I read most of my email on my iPad 3, I find it much more convenient than firing up my Windows laptop. I can use the iPad wherever in the house I happen to be. I doubt Apple are going to listen to my requests to change the email software, and anyway I don't agree it does anything wrong. It works fine with every other mailing list. I'm conflicted about top or bottom posting. I agree bottom posting and inline replies make it easier to understand what is being replied to. But on the other hand if the email chain is long and no-one bothers to cut old replies out (most people don't, look at this list) you can end up scrolling past 10 pages of week old stuff before getting to the new part. Top posting at least avoids that. I have a Raspberry Pi running a DNS cache, and I have a WHS v1 server for media and torrents. I could install an MTA on either of them, but that creates work for me to do. I write software and operate computers all week at work, at home I want them to intrude into my life as little as possible. They are tools to do a job at home, not something I get enjoyment fiddling with for the sake of it. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 14:51, Nick get_ipla...@i.lucanops.net wrote: You should go back to your vendor about the dodgy email program, but I should think if they do fix it it will be a case that the fix is in a future email program not available on your machine - ie new hardware will be needed for a software design flaw. Or can you not use another email program? If Thunderbird is available for Apple branded PCs then surely it is available for Apple branded ARM tablets? How about installing your own MTA (I like Postfix) and having it rewrite headers? Oh, is your computer not open enough for that kind of thing? :) Nick ___ ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: OT: reply-to [was Re: iplayer audio to lpcm]
And when I Reply to All my own posting, it does go To: the list. So this is partly down to how other people are sending to the list. I suspect if they CC'd the list, then Reply to All also CC's the list, which is correct behaviour. So why are people CCing a mailing list in the first place? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 15:26, Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: Also I don't like the way Reply to All is To: the last poster and CC: the list. CC to me means for information only, I'm not expecting them to reply. To: is the people I am directing my question or whatever to. So not only do I have to remember to use Reply to All, I then have to go and edit the recipients to put get_iplayer in the To: line. Or does no-one but me care about the difference between To: and CC: any more? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: iplayer audio to lpcm
I had hoped by saying we'd discussed this before we could avoid all this rant. Apparently not. The facts as I see it are: 1) David has a VERY entrenched deeply held belief about this 2) almost no-one else on the list agrees with him in principle 3) notwithstanding 2), many agree David runs the list and so sets the rules Now can we please drop this? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 21:24, David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org wrote: On Sat, 2014-11-08 at 14:10 +, Jim Lesurf wrote: On 08 Nov, Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: Blasted mailing list, I sent the message below as a personal reply, AGAIN. I simply cannot get my brain to accept how this list works. I'm on half a dozen other mailing lists all of which work the other way round ie. replies go to the list. Mutter. I've also been a bit puzzled/confused by the list. I'd expected emails to the list to just generate responses via the list. But various responses have come both direct and via the list. I don't mind cc'ing back when I get direct responses in parallel. But it does mean I am getting duplicatics and will have to set up a filter to ensure these all go to the correct storage 'box' here. Is this all the norm here, or have I done something wrong? If the latter, my apologies. Not experienced it on other lists where all by default goes only via the list. As Owen says, this has been discussed before. Your email client — every email client — has (at least) two options for *how* to reply to an email. First there's the private reply which goes only to the sender of the original email. And then there's the public reply to all which goes to everyone who received the original email. It is a heinous crime for someone to hack into your computer and hack your email software so that when you choose a *private* reply, you are actually tricked into replying in public instead. Sending a message which was intended to be private, to a *public* forum, can be catastrophic. It can ends friendships, jobs, marriages. Granted, that doesn't happen often. But it *does* happen. Conversely, if someone isn't thinking and accidentally presses the private 'reply' button when they meant to reply in public, that failure mode is harmless. They get to feel a bit of a muppet because they couldn't drive their email program properly, and they can resend the mail to the right place. But then again, the *email* they sent when they weren't thinking straight might sometimes need editing once they sober up anyway. Or might be better of just not sent :) When a mailing list abuses the Reply-To: header to redirect *private* replies back to the list, that's horrible. I know some people do it in the interest of simplicity, because users are often too clueless to press the right button. But for $DEITY's sake this is *simple*. It's hardly difficult to know the difference between the private and public reply buttons, and *all* email clients have them. By abusing the Reply-To: header in this way, those lists are actually *creating* the confusion that they claim to be trying to work around. Now, if you *do* want to reply in public, there's a separate question about whether you should reply *only* to the list, or whether you should reply to all and keep everyone in the loop. Again it's useful to look at the failure modes. If you reply to everyone, then those who have actively participated in the thread will be copied directly. Many may want this, but a *few* people will be trivially inconvenienced by having two copies of the same email. An inconvenience which does them no real harm. Now think about what happens if you *don't* do people the courtesy of copying them directly. Some people will be cut out of the conversation *entirely*, and others will just be receiving it in a delayed form so that by the time they're able to reply, the conversation has moved on. See http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html for a detailed treatment of this, including a bunch of specific cases where the *lack* of a direct copy causes problems for individuals or even the entire set of subscribers to other mailing lists on which the thread may have been cross-posted. Seriously, there isn't much of a debate to be had here. Use the right button in the mailer. And if you *insist* on replying to the list instead of to everyone, your mailer *probably* has an option for that too. But be prepared that a number of more technical people will just *ignore* you if you do that. Seriously, when I start to help someone because I happen to come across their email in one of the dozens of mailing lists to which I'm subscribed, and they *fail* to reply to me directly, I'm very unlikely to see their response. And if I *do* happen to see it and they haven't done me the courtesy of replying directly to me, I'll be very disinclined to continue helping them. Life's too short to help people who
Re: mail-list behavior, was: iplayer audio to lpcm
Cross posting between multiple mailing lists is something that I have a serious downer on. People don't always agree to their postings being published elsewhere, or their email address being publicised outside of the lists they have subscribed to. As such I regard issues about who a reply goes to when multiple mailing lists are involved as a rare corner case, because it should happen very infrequently. I do not expect another mailing list to suddenly be CC'd in the middle of a discussion. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 22:26, David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org wrote: On Sat, 2014-11-08 at 22:02 +, Jeremy Nicoll - ml get_iplayer wrote: David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org wrote: Now think about what happens if you *don't* do people the courtesy of copying them directly. Some people will be cut out of the conversation *entirely* - only if they weren't mail list subscribers in the first place. Arguably they shouldn't have been CCed (or whatever) on public mail list posts by whoever exposed their addresses to the world. It happens to me all the time, and I certainly wouldn't say that it shouldn't happen. A question is asked and I get added to Cc by someone who knows I'll be able to help. Or a mailing list that I'm on is added to Cc; it doesn't even have to be my personal address. If you reply to the list, you're replying to only *one* list of the many. Possibly not the one I'm on. and others will just be receiving it in a delayed form... That's up to them and how they choose to get all the other traffic from that mail list, surely? Why should replies to their posts be given special treatment? You haven't actually looked at the examples in http://david.woodhou.se/reply-to-list.html have you? You amaze me. Couldn't you filter such incoming replies (eg because they're In-Reply-To one of your message ids), colour them differently or something? No. Not if I don't receive them at *all*, like some of the examples described in the above-referenced page. And even if I do, why should I jump through hoops for the benefit of someone who can't even be bothered to do me the courtesy of keeping me in Cc when reply to something I've said? I *do* have the filters for filters containing References: headers that indicate I've participated in a thread, and I do use them in some circumstances. But not for the benefit of *others* who I'm trying to help. And if I *do* happen to see it and they haven't done me the courtesy of replying directly to me, I'll be very disinclined to continue helping them. Life's too short to help people who make life hard for themselves and me. It seems to me that you're expecting people to do things differently here because it suits you better that way. I expect people to know the difference between the two buttons in their mailer, and have little sympathy for those who can't be bothered to press the right one each time so they want them both to do the same. -- dwmw2 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Live TV pining for the fjords
What is AOD? A TLA I don't recognise (something On Demand?) -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 8 Nov 2014, at 22:52, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: It looks the BBC have removed the RTMP streams for live TV. At least, they're no longer where get_iplayer looks for them. If anyone knows that they are still running, and how to locate them, let me know. Since the live streams were switched to Adobe HDS a little while back, it's no surprise that the RTMP streams would be killed eventually. For the moment I'm occupied with fixing things still broken by the loss of the programme feeds, but HDS is a can of worms that will have to be opened eventually. The BBC have already declared they are moving to HDS for AOD in 2015. If they are going to use the switch to bring in DRM (a la C4), then it's game over for get_iplayer (except for podcasts). If anyone sees any news about their DRM plans, please post. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: PATCH addition of /usr/local/bin/ in 'get_iplayer.cgi'
To give more detail, I meant create a branch, check the file out, test your change, check change in to your own branch, then send details of the branch to the master maintainers to see if they want to accept the change (which seems to be a git pull request or similar), and if they do they merge that branch back in. I wouldn't expect anyone, even dinkypumpkin, to do day to day work on the top level master codestream. But patches seem so backwards. Source control systems do the job so much better. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 6 Nov 2014, at 09:03, Colin Law clan...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 November 2014 01:07, Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: Why bother with patches? Why not just check the source file out, change it, and check it back in again with the change in? Or does git not work like conventional source control systems? Only a limited number of people have commit rights to the master repository, so they must send a patch to someone who does. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: PATCH addition of /usr/local/bin/ in 'get_iplayer.cgi'
Why bother with patches? Why not just check the source file out, change it, and check it back in again with the change in? Or does git not work like conventional source control systems? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 6 Nov 2014, at 00:24, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: On 06/11/2014 00:14, dinkypumpkin wrote: Sorry, but your patch doesn't apply. A few things, for anyone who wants to submit a patch to the list: Before any pedants pop up: Yes, those instructions only apply if you're using Git (as I hope you are). If you can create a patch with git format-patch or by some equivalent method and send it properly formatted so that I can run git apply on it, that's fine as well. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [ANN] get_iplayer 2.89 released
I only realised when I read your 2.89 release notice and thought hang on a minute, I saw icons in Squeezebox this morning and went and checked. I couldn't have told you any sooner. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 3 Nov 2014, at 14:40, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: On 03/11/2014 01:55, Owen Smith wrote: I'm intrigued about the lack of episode thumbnails for radio. Looking in my iPlayer plugin for Logitech Media Server (aka Squeezebox Server) I wish I had known this yesterday. They're using series series thumbnails, but that would still be a bit nicer than station logos. Next time. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [ANN] get_iplayer 2.89 released
I'm intrigued about the lack of episode thumbnails for radio. Looking in my iPlayer plugin for Logitech Media Server (aka Squeezebox Server) there are episode thumbnails shown next to all episodes bar one on a random selection of days of Radio 3. This is public domain third party code, nothing to do with the BBC, so there are thumbnails available somewhere. I've been told the plugin uses the officially supported xml schedule feed. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 2 Nov 2014, at 23:06, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: get_iplayer 2.88 was withdrawn due to a bug found after it was released for Homebrew. v2.89 is the successor to v2.87. Release notes here: https://github.com/dinkypumpkin/get_iplayer/wiki/release289 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: We should be grateful ( was Re: A message from Auntie )
This is a problem the BBC should have foreseen. As soon as you put software into embedded devices like TVs or PVRs, either you have to support it for at least 10 years or you will break someone's viewing experience. It appears to me that insufficient thought was given to this. I've been in the software industry for nearly 30 years and I foresaw problems like this about 3 years ago. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 1 Nov 2014, at 22:05, Peter S Kirk peter.k...@isauk.biz wrote: Update: visited mum today. Her bedroom Sony smart TV sticks on loading... when iPlayer selected. The living room Sony smart TV - 10 months newer - is still working, but many programmes are missing and it is very slow. Dear BBC, Thanks for breaking mum's TV :( ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: We should be grateful ( was Re: A message from Auntie )
But BBC iPlayer Download insists I play the download on my PC. That's useless to me, my laptop has a small screen and isn't connected to my surround sound system. With get_iplayer I was copying the downloaded file to my Freeview PVR and playing it on my TV from there which worked well. There is no equivalent from the BBC. I can't stream iPlayer live, my broadband is too slow. The BBC have effectively driven me to look elsewhere to even more dubious methods of accessing their content by preventing get_iplayer working. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 31 Oct 2014, at 04:53, artisticforge . artisticfo...@gmail.com wrote: For video there is BBC iPlayer Download. There is no equivalent for audio. Several BBC radio Stations are on iTunes Radio. None of the local ones. BBC Radio Cumbria, BBC Radio Lincolnshire, BBC Radio Wales. I have always wondered about BBC Radio Wales missing from iTunes. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: No More Get_Iplayer
I use an S-VHS VCR to record Classic FM since their Listen Again feed is of such awful sound quality. (Damned list, I sent a private reply to Steve first, grr mutter...) -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 31 Oct 2014, at 09:28, Steve startrek.st...@gmail.com wrote: Well I guess its back to recording onto a Minidisc with a power timer! ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: We should be grateful ( was Re: A message from Auntie )
Download by PID is too finnicky. I never seem to be able to get it to work, and yes I have read the instructions. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 31 Oct 2014, at 11:18, Chris Marriott ch...@chrism.demon.co.uk wrote: -Original Message- From: Owen Smith Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 10:53 AM To: get_iplayer Subject: Re: We should be grateful ( was Re: A message from Auntie ) The BBC have effectively driven me to look elsewhere to even more dubious methods of accessing their content by preventing get_iplayer working. No, they haven't. To repeat yet again, downloads by PID still work absolutely fine. Chris ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: BBC messed up
Given the XML feed already discussed in other emails, I would have thought the short answer to can get_iplayer be fixed is yes it can. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 31 Oct 2014, at 14:15, artisticforge . artisticfo...@gmail.com wrote: Hello the short answer is No. The long answer is, the PVR search functionality can no longer function because the feeds used are no longer available. You have to manually find the program you want and use the command line to fetch it. On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 8:46 AM, Ray West rayw...@raywest.com wrote: Hi, It seems that bbc have altered in the last couple of days, and getiplayer does not work. Any chance of getiplayer being updated? Best wishes, Ray ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer -- terry l. ridder ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: [ANN] get_iplayer search and PVR functions no longer work - no fix available
Well this sucks. Does anyone know if it will affect the Squeezebox iPlayer radio plugin as well? I'm assuming it does at the moment. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 29 Oct 2014, at 13:20, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: The BBC have removed the programme data feeds used by get_iplayer, so search and PVR functions no longer work. There is no programme information to cache, and it was the cache that supported search and PVR functions. There is no fix available at this time. You can still download individual programmes via PID or URL. http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/feeds ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: podcast listings missing a digit
Given that Reply goes to the sender, and Reply to All goes to the sender and CC's the list, it is not surprising that replies are going to the wrong place. I've done it several times myself. Is it not possible to get the list software to set the Reply To header so that replies always go to the list? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 1 Oct 2014, at 09:57, dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com wrote: Reply to the list, not to me. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: podcast listings missing a digit
I disagree. If you subscribe to a digest of a list then you accept, and probably even want, to not be bothered by direct replies and only see the postings when the daily digest turns up. There is no way I'd want a Freecycle digest to behave like this list for example, there would be far too many emails. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 1 Oct 2014, at 14:39, Thomas Finch t...@imagine.fsworld.co.uk wrote: On 1 October 2014 13:26, Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: On this list Reply to All sends it To: the sender, and CC: the list. That is also wrong, CC: is for your information and To: the original sender implies I am expecting them to answer. This thread is a prime example of where the current implementation is working well: the conversation is (relatively) fast-paced, with a number of emails with a few hours. Those participating may only be subscribed to digests, and therefore would be missing out on much of the conversation until the digest arrives, by which time it is likely to have moved on. It is important to include them in the cc, even if this means they see it again in their digest. (Of course, it also means that when I forget to ask Gmail to turn off HTML, which gets rejected by the list, the message still has a chance of making it to your inbox - albeit twice in this instance, so apologies!) ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: podcast listings missing a digit
And I just fell foul of Reply going to only the poster. I didn't want to send it only to Square Penguin, but I'm so used to Reply going to a sensible destination for all my other emails that it's a real problem trying to remember that I have to edit the destination for this one mailing list. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 1 Oct 2014, at 15:29, Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: If you're on a digest then you're on a digest is my view. If you want immediate replies suddenly them you should change your subscription type, and change it back again when you've finished. (The combination of top and bottom posting in one email is worse than either on it's own, I note in passing. Alas it would take me so long to conform using the iPad UI that it would no longer be worth replying.) -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 1 Oct 2014, at 15:21, Square Penguin getipla...@squarepenguin.co.uk wrote: Owen Smith wrote: If you subscribe to a digest of a list then you accept, and probably even want, to not be bothered by direct replies and only see the postings when the daily digest turns up. You wouldn't be bothered by direct replies unless you had taken direct part in the conversation as until that point your email wouldn't be on a reply-to. Surely you'd want to become part of the immediate conversation when you had made a reply? PS Sorry for calling you surely. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
