Re: CMS comparison [ was: Web software for a family web site? ]

[Seth Cohn]

I'll volunteer right now to do a Drupal introduction at a upcoming
Concord GNHlug meeting, if someone will schedule it.


Ok, looks like I'll be doing not one, but 2 Intro to Drupal presentations.
In April in Peterborough, and in May in Concord.

Ah, the joys of offering to do a presentation... I knew there was a
reason I didn't do this too often. (grin)

BTW, occasionally there is a regular Drupal meetup in Boston...
http://groups.drupal.org/boston
I haven't been (but wouldn't mind sharing a drive with someone)
and if we find enough interest, maybe we can do something in NH
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Re: httpd lineage

[Ben Scott]

On 2/8/07, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

When NFS V2 and V3 servers receive requests from userid 0, they map them to
userid 65534, (sorta not really -2), which is nobody.


I don't think that's the default, or at least it didn't used to be.


 It almost certainly depends on the implementation.


Of course, that might just have been on Ultrix... I don't remember the
details.


"ULTRIX is amazingly customizable: you have to replace 1/3 of it to
make it usable."
   -- Marcus J Ranum, comp.unix.ultrix

-- Ben
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Re: httpd lineage

[Paul Lussier]

Ric Werme <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> When NFS V2 and V3 servers receive requests from userid 0, they map them to
> userid 65534, (sorta not really -2), which is nobody.

I don't think that's the default, or at least it didn't used to be.  I
remember having explicitly set in the /etc/exports file on the NFS
server that nobody=X, because by default nobody used to map to 0,
which you might think isn't wise for very blatantly obvious reasons :)

Of course, that might just have been on Ultrix... I don't remember the
details.
-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853  E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE

A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Re: httpd lineage

[Ric Werme]

On Thursday 08 February 2007 05:25 pm, TARogue wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Neil Joseph Schelly wrote:
> > The username is relatively arbitrary, so long as it's not nobody or
> > something these days.
>
> OK, so what's wrong with "nobody"?

When NFS V2 and V3 servers receive requests from userid 0, they map them to
userid 65534, (sorta not really -2), which is nobody.

So, create files owned by nobody, and remote superusers can play with them.

-Ric Werme
-- 
 "Engineers are unreasonable people." -- NH Judge John Korbey
[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://werme.8m.net/
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Re: When kiddies attack!

[Dan Miller]

Here is what logwatch reports for me every morning.This is about 
average, comcast won't do a thing, so I'm not even trying. I have 
thought about setting up a cron to set my daily logs to them to see what 
I get, I don't think it will help though.


 Dropped 4043 packets on interface eth0
   From 4.20.75.147 - 1 packet to udp(1434)
   From 4.161.194.193 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 9.85.60.97 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 12.30.217.56 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 12.120.1.233 - 15 packets to tcp(12559)
   From 12.120.1.234 - 287 packets to 
tcp(2118,3086,3418,3716,3960,4275,4344,5552,5835,6294,6890,7265,7983,8090,11724,11897,12600,13019,14032,14563,15444,15971) 

   From 12.120.1.235 - 222 packets to 
tcp(2186,3286,4232,5764,5803,6509,9009,9687,10403,10581,10791,11611,12612,13557,13764,13950,15357,16107) 

   From 12.120.1.236 - 276 packets to 
tcp(2070,2787,3750,4089,5334,6869,7607,7620,8800,9013,12756,12816,13207,13257,13376,14025,14157,14724,15419,16041) 

   From 12.130.50.213 - 15 packets to 
tcp(6902,7857,11093,13776,14818,23658,27137,31647,32957,38278,43132,47943,53637,61154,62487) 


   From 15.17.149.181 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 18.216.124.101 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 20.247.6.106 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 21.45.63.151 - 2 packets to udp(1025,1027)
   From 21.79.194.60 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 24.64.8.30 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.70.153 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.79.221 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.81.219 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.100.142 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.109.236 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.113.69 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.122.23 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.172.238 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.183.87 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.232.90 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.247.230 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.64.255.250 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.65.2.230 - 3 packets to udp(1026,1027,1028)
   From 24.95.202.40 - 3 packets to udp(1025,1027,1028)
   From 25.16.163.233 - 3 packets to udp(1025,1026,1028)
   From 28.209.85.153 - 3 packets to udp(1025,1026,1028)
   From 29.166.46.38 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 32.230.161.251 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 38.97.75.215 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 40.160.100.134 - 2 packets to udp(1026,1028)
   From 40.192.161.60 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 45.100.139.156 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 45.189.168.199 - 2 packets to udp(1026,1028)
   From 46.155.27.53 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 46.205.134.208 - 2 packets to udp(1025,1027)
   From 48.166.85.249 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 48.235.80.185 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 51.95.21.233 - 2 packets to udp(1026,1028)
   From 56.252.217.43 - 2 packets to udp(1025,1027)
   From 57.35.72.208 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 57.42.70.136 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 58.106.165.55 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 60.11.125.47 - 1 packet to udp(1027)
   From 60.145.213.166 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 60.190.172.30 - 1 packet to tcp(7212)
   From 60.228.23.86 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 61.180.228.243 - 4 packets to udp(1026,1027)
   From 62.43.122.13 - 1 packet to tcp(5900)
   From 63.1.64.79 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 63.161.111.45 - 2 packets to udp(1025,1027)
   From 64.154.81.197 - 1 packet to tcp(56811)
   From 64.162.69.147 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 64.191.203.30 - 1 packet to tcp(43202)
   From 64.207.44.53 - 3 packets to tcp(2967)
   From 64.233.167.99 - 1 packet to tcp(59212)
   From 64.240.177.211 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.49.27.4 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.71.107.166 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.73.59.48 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.88.71.10 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.92.32.85 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.95.147.192 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.101.9.143 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.120.61.183 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.123.134.57 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.135.205.24 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.136.192.22 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.137.221.76 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.143.237.209 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.155.155.63 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.162.107.194 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.165.193.35 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.169.42.145 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.176.2.139 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.177.87.169 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.181.89.53 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.182.66.92 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 65.186.177.65 - 1 packet to udp(1026)
   From 66.45.227.222 - 2 packets to tcp(44712)
   From 66.213.253.92 - 2 packets to tcp(1433)
   From 66.231.185.135 - 18 packets to udp(1026,1027)
   From 67.168.218.114 - 2 packets to tcp(1433)
   From 68.187.240.6 - 1 packet to tcp(5900)
   From 69.66.83.123 - 1 pa

Re: httpd lineage

[Neil Joseph Schelly]

On Thursday 08 February 2007 05:25 pm, TARogue wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Neil Joseph Schelly wrote:
> > The username is relatively arbitrary, so long as it's not nobody or
> > something these days.
>
> OK, so what's wrong with "nobody"?

What other processes might appropriately use nobody?  Why should other 
processes run with the same privilege profile and environment as a web 
server.  That'd be sort of like just having a daemon user that runs all the 
system processes - why bother with any privilege separation if that's the 
plan?
-N
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Re: httpd lineage

[TARogue]

On Thu, 8 Feb 2007, Neil Joseph Schelly wrote:

> The username is relatively arbitrary, so long as it's not nobody or something 
> these days.
>
OK, so what's wrong with "nobody"?

-- 
TARogue (Linux user number 234357)
 Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it
 will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation [of power] first, and
 then corruption, its necessary consequence. -- Thomas Jefferson
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Re: CMS comparison [ was: Web software for a family web site? ]

[Ted Roche]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 3:40 PM, Seth Cohn wrote:


I'll volunteer right now to do a Drupal introduction at a upcoming
Concord GNHlug meeting, if someone will schedule it.


How's May 7th or June 4th work for you?

Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: CMS comparison [ was: Web software for a family web site? ]

[Seth Cohn]

Can you define the difference then between what Joomla! can do that
WordPress can't?  From what I can tell, WP has plugins available to do
damn near everything.


While Wordpress can do a lot, at the end of the day, it's a blog, not a CMS.
If your goal is blogging first, and other items secondary, it'll do
the job most likely.


>> I've been fairly impressed so far, but also planned on looking
>> at Joomla! (with, imo, has a cooler name just because it sounds rather
>> silly :)


Drupal.  Xaraya, Mambo (now Joomla).  All of these names are silly.


I did a comparison between Joomla! and WP and they looked fairly equal
with extremely minor exceptions.  Perhaps I missed something.  As I
said, I've been poking at WP for less than a week and was also
planning on poking at Joomla! in a similar way.


Joomla's pretty.  It's also easy to use, and gets a lot of newbie
attention as a result.  But (IMHO) the backend is very much
'separate'.  Install a new function, and there is no guarantee the new
functionality will mesh with the old.  It's like running multiple
programs that don't (always) talk to each other.  (nothing against
Joomla, btw, plenty of older CMSes were the same way.  I hated coding
for Postnuke (now Xaraya) for that reason.

Take a look at (and install) Drupal 5.0.  Drupal's now 6 years old,
and very mature, very easy to use, and unlike the above, it's _very_
much built from the ground up in a modular manner.  Its' motto is
'community plumbing', in part because of the tinkertoy manner in which
you can connect pieces together.  Want your blog entries to have event
calendaring?  Ok.  Now want to add geolocation and a map?  Ok.  What,
you want voting and promoting the best stuff to the front page, troll
and spam protection, group permissions, e-commerce, image galleries,
ajaxian coolness, and 50 other things?  Ok.  And for the most part,
they all talk/interact together...   and if you want it simple, you
can do that too...


One thing I *really* liked about Joomla! was the downloadable user
manual available in PDF.  It makes for reading about it much easier
when you're on the train :)


There are books (including PDFs) on all of the better CMSes.
Professional bound (or pdf) books on Drupal exist (and I recommend
them) but they aren't needed, as there is a nice handbook online as
well as a strong community of users.

Local sites running drupal you might have visited lately, and the
people behind them...

http://nhpr.org (running a very custom version I think at this point)
coded by a local Drupal whiz Morbus Iff ( http://www.disobey.com )
Haven't met him, though we've emailed once or twice.

http://www.concordspca.org
coded by http://carnevaledesign.com  Never met them.

http://democracyfornewhampshire.com
don't recall who is webmastering this now, but it's running Civicspace
(a Drupal repackaging) and is a bit aged now.

and on the other side of the fence, http://nhliberty.org
which I _used_ to webmaster, running a slightly newer CivicSpace version.

I'll volunteer right now to do a Drupal introduction at a upcoming
Concord GNHlug meeting, if someone will schedule it.

Seth
(who spend many of his days doing Drupal developing)
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Re: When kiddies attack!

[Thomas Charron]

On 2/8/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 12:10 -0500, Thomas Charron wrote:
>   I was just doing some debugging on some JSONRPC scripts, so in the
> true spirit of printf debugging, I had a terminal window open to tail
> -f /var/log/apache/error.log and out of the blue:
>
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:28 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/xmlrpc
>   Guess it's fun till you notice they get in sometimes.  LOL
It was exactly this type of thing that inspired a friend of mine,
Marcelo Marques of the 4Linux company in Sao Paulo, Brazil to start the
Hackerteen program.  He finds kids (sometimes referred to him by the
Brazilian FBI) who were using their spare time to break into machines
and Marcelo teaches them the ethics and responsibility of being a
computer user and systems administrator.


 Will they track down the troublemakers by IP, and go knocking on
doors?  Man that'd be nice.  :-D


Additionally, this program teaches the students administration and
security skills and tries to help the more senior Hackerteen students to
get jobs needed to support their families.
Whenever I go to Sao Paulo, I meet with the students, and recently I was
honored to be at the first graduation class (a two-year commitment) of
the first "Black-belt" Hackerteen students.
I know that this site is in Portuguese
http://www.hackerteen.com.br/
but I think that their program is unique in using distance learning
combined with RPG and a "karate-like" system of belts to teach teenagers
how to be better citizens.
I am proud to be involved in my own small way with this program.


 That's actually a pretty cool program they have going there.
Definitely gives them a more creative outlet to use their potential
skill.

--
-- Thomas
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Re: When kiddies attack!

[Steven W. Orr]

On Thursday, Feb 8th 2007 at 12:28 -0500, quoth Michael ODonnell:

=>Not so fun when you realize its (I mean its' - no!  I mean
=>it's) possible that there (I mean their - no!  I mean they're)
=>slowly assembling a bot-net and you're (I mean yore - no!
=>I mean your) machine could become one of the slave bots that
=>might some day participate in an attack on the root servers...

They're there now. Take a deep breath...

-- 
Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have  .0.
happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ ..0
Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all- 000
individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question?
steveo at syslang.net
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Re: When kiddies attack!

[Ted Roche]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Thomas Charron wrote:

 Anyone else kinda enjoy seeing someone autokiddiescript attack  
their servers?


Occasionally. I also like watching the attack end as I add their IP  
address to my firewall's blocked list, too.



 Guess it's fun till you notice they get in sometimes.  LOL


I've been pleased by the level of response I get with an email. In  
this case, to:


OrgAbuseHandle: FIAD-ARIN
OrgAbuseName:   Fortress ITX Abuse Dept
OrgAbusePhone:  +1-973-572-1070
OrgAbuseEmail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: CMS comparison [ was: Web software for a family web site? ]

[Ted Roche]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 2:28 PM, Paul Lussier wrote:


Can you define the difference then between what Joomla! can do that
WordPress can't?  From what I can tell, WP has plugins available to do
damn near everything.


Nope, I can't. I set up WordPress as a single-user blog and haven't  
explored much in the way of plugins. I haven't worked with Joomla!  
only seen the demos,



I did a comparison between Joomla! and WP and they looked fairly equal
with extremely minor exceptions.  Perhaps I missed something.  As I
said, I've been poking at WP for less than a week and was also
planning on poking at Joomla! in a similar way.


Considering the low cost of acquisition and installation, I think  
that's the right way to go. Test drive.


Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: CMS comparison [ was: Web software for a family web site? ]

[Paul Lussier]

Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I converted my blog to WordPress a while ago. Seems like a pretty
> solid project. But it is blog-specific software and not as flexible
> as a general-purpose CMS.

Can you define the difference then between what Joomla! can do that
WordPress can't?  From what I can tell, WP has plugins available to do
damn near everything.

>> I've been fairly impressed so far, but also planned on looking
>> at Joomla! (with, imo, has a cooler name just because it sounds rather
>> silly :)
>
> You might look at http://www.cmsmatrix.org for comparisons between
> the different CMSes. However, I'll warn you in advance: it's seems
> like most of them have everything including the kitchen sink. It may
> be more useful to visit the forums of the leading contenders, get a
> sense of the tone of the community, try out the demos, etc.

I did a comparison between Joomla! and WP and they looked fairly equal
with extremely minor exceptions.  Perhaps I missed something.  As I
said, I've been poking at WP for less than a week and was also
planning on poking at Joomla! in a similar way.

One thing I *really* liked about Joomla! was the downloadable user
manual available in PDF.  It makes for reading about it much easier
when you're on the train :)
-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853  E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE

A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Drew Van Zandt]

On 2/8/07, Kent Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Wrong guess. HTTP is an IETF standard defined by RFC:
HTTP 1.0: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1945.txt
HTTP 1.1 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt


I wonder who the major contributing authors to those RFC's might be?  ;-)
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/Activity.html

--DTVZ
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Re: When kiddies attack!

[Jon 'maddog' Hall]

On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 12:10 -0500, Thomas Charron wrote:
>   I was just doing some debugging on some JSONRPC scripts, so in the
> true spirit of printf debugging, I had a terminal window open to tail
> -f /var/log/apache/error.log and out of the blue:
> 
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:28 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/xmlrpc
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:28 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/xmlsrv
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/blog
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/drupal
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/community
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/blogs
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/blogs
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/blog
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/blogtest
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/b2
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/b2evo
> [Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
> exist: /var/www/wordpress
> 
>   Anyone else kinda enjoy seeing someone autokiddiescript attack their 
> servers?
> 
>   Guess it's fun till you notice they get in sometimes.  LOL
> 

It was exactly this type of thing that inspired a friend of mine,
Marcelo Marques of the 4Linux company in Sao Paulo, Brazil to start the
Hackerteen program.  He finds kids (sometimes referred to him by the
Brazilian FBI) who were using their spare time to break into machines
and Marcelo teaches them the ethics and responsibility of being a
computer user and systems administrator.

Additionally, this program teaches the students administration and
security skills and tries to help the more senior Hackerteen students to
get jobs needed to support their families.

Whenever I go to Sao Paulo, I meet with the students, and recently I was
honored to be at the first graduation class (a two-year commitment) of
the first "Black-belt" Hackerteen students.

I know that this site is in Portuguese

http://www.hackerteen.com.br/

but I think that their program is unique in using distance learning
combined with RPG and a "karate-like" system of belts to teach teenagers
how to be better citizens.

I am proud to be involved in my own small way with this program.

maddog

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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Kent Johnson]

Paul Lussier wrote:

Christopher Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 09:46:54AM -0500, Drew Van Zandt wrote:

I find the redhat httpd (and thus by extension the w3c naming)

Er, W3C? What relation does the W3C bear to Apache, or even webservers?


Errr, the webserver must spew-forth http, which is defined by the w3c?
(Just a guess here :)


Wrong guess. HTTP is an IETF standard defined by RFC:
HTTP 1.0: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1945.txt
HTTP 1.1 http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2616.txt

HTML was originally specified by RFC also but modern HTML and XML are 
specified by W3C "Recommendations".


Kent

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Re: CMS comparison [ was: Web software for a family web site? ]

[Ted Roche]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Paul Lussier wrote:


I would love a follow-up posting of this meeting.


I'll try to take good notes.


I've been looking
at WordPress over the past week and playing around with it on my
laptop (If anyone has a Mac, and you want to play with LAMP stuff, get
MAMP!)


I converted my blog to WordPress a while ago. Seems like a pretty  
solid project. But it is blog-specific software and not as flexible  
as a general-purpose CMS.



I've been fairly impressed so far, but also planned on looking
at Joomla! (with, imo, has a cooler name just because it sounds rather
silly :)


You might look at http://www.cmsmatrix.org for comparisons between  
the different CMSes. However, I'll warn you in advance: it's seems  
like most of them have everything including the kitchen sink. It may  
be more useful to visit the forums of the leading contenders, get a  
sense of the tone of the community, try out the demos, etc.



Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com


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Re: httpd lineage [Was: The new 'Linux Foundation']

[Neil Joseph Schelly]

On Thursday 08 February 2007 12:49 pm, Michael ODonnell wrote:
> > Debian's attempts to do everything the "right" way, otherwise
> > known as the "Debian" way, regardless of how others have done it
>
> I don't know that be generally true.  I'm not sayin' it ain't
> so, just that I'm not aware of it.  Care to elaborate?  or were
> you just painting with too broad a brush out of frustration
> with one or a few particular item(s) ?  I say this as a Debian
> user who admires Debian's (apparent) integrity.

I'm also a Debian user.  I use it because of the "Debian" way which works out 
well 99% of the time.  I can recognize however that what Debian defines as 
the "right" way to do things is not necessarily the same as what everyone 
else does, nor is it necessarily the only way to do things.

I try not to start Debian vs. RedHat vs. whatever flamewars.  I figure all the 
people who use something else probably have enough other problems to deal 
with. ;-)
-N
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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Chip Marshall]

On February 08, 2007, Paul Lussier sent me the following:
> Christopher Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Er, W3C? What relation does the W3C bear to Apache, or even webservers?
> 
> Errr, the webserver must spew-forth http, which is defined by the w3c?
> (Just a guess here :)

W3C also maintains their own HTTP server, known as Jigsaw.
 
> > Do you find bind ('named') irritating in the same way?
> 
> Yeah, let's call the software BIND, but the process 'named', and
> squirrel all the config files away under /etc/bind, but call the
> actual config file named.conf.  For added clarity we set the username
> under which we'll run the daemon to bind but the process to named with
> a user argumemnt of bind...

I've never seen an /etc/bind personally, I'm used to FreeBSD keeping the
config in /etc/named. Keep in mind that the BIND package contains more
than just a name server daemon. I think it's perfectly appropriate for
the individual parts of a package to have binary names matching their
functions. For instance the Postfix SMTP server package contains daemons
with such names as master, pickup, trivial-rewrite, smtpd, local,
tlsmgr, and qmgr. It would be very confusing, I think, if all the parts
called themselves postfix.

Granted, I have my server setup so all the postfix processes run as user
postfix, but it seems silly to blame a package for what username you
decide to run it as. BIND's named could just as happily run as user
named, or daemon, or bind, or bob, for all it cares.

-- 
Chip Marshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://kyzoku.2bithacker.net/
GCM/IT d+(-) s+:++ a25>? C++ UB$ P+++$ L- E--- W++ N@ o K- w O M+
V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP++ t+@ R@ tv@ b++@ DI D+(-) G++ e>++ h>++ r-- y?


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Re: httpd lineage [Was: The new 'Linux Foundation']

[Michael ODonnell]

> Debian's attempts to do everything the "right" way, otherwise
> known as the "Debian" way, regardless of how others have done it

I don't know that be generally true.  I'm not sayin' it ain't
so, just that I'm not aware of it.  Care to elaborate?  or were
you just painting with too broad a brush out of frustration
with one or a few particular item(s) ?  I say this as a Debian
user who admires Debian's (apparent) integrity.
 
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Re: httpd lineage [Was: The new 'Linux Foundation']

[Neil Joseph Schelly]

On Thursday 08 February 2007 12:24 pm, Bill McGonigle wrote:
> So, in redhat-land capabilities and package names and binary names
> are separate things - am I correct in inferring that in debian
> they're more integrated?

Package names and binary names are generally more similar in Debian I guess, 
but I would say that's more a side-effect of Debian's attempts to do 
everything the "right" way, otherwise known as the "Debian" way, regardless 
of how others have done it.  For better or worse, package/binary naming tends 
in my perspective to more closely relate to the actual software's name, 
rather than the purpose.
-N
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Re: When kiddies attack!

[Michael ODonnell]

>[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
>exist: /var/www/b2evo
>[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
>exist: /var/www/wordpress
>
>  Anyone else kinda enjoy seeing someone autokiddiescript attack their servers?
>
>  Guess it's fun till you notice they get in sometimes.  LOL


Not so fun when you realize its (I mean its' - no!  I mean
it's) possible that there (I mean their - no!  I mean they're)
slowly assembling a bot-net and you're (I mean yore - no!
I mean your) machine could become one of the slave bots that
might some day participate in an attack on the root servers...
 
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When kiddies attack!

[Thomas Charron]

 I was just doing some debugging on some JSONRPC scripts, so in the
true spirit of printf debugging, I had a terminal window open to tail
-f /var/log/apache/error.log and out of the blue:

[Thu Feb 08 11:59:28 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/xmlrpc
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:28 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/xmlsrv
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/blog
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/drupal
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/community
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/blogs
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/blogs
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/blog
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/blogtest
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/b2
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/b2evo
[Thu Feb 08 11:59:29 2007] [error] [client 65.98.4.130] File does not
exist: /var/www/wordpress

 Anyone else kinda enjoy seeing someone autokiddiescript attack their servers?

 Guess it's fun till you notice they get in sometimes.  LOL

--
-- Thomas
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Re: httpd lineage

[Thomas Charron]

On 2/8/07, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Well, yeah, sure, but the http server was the first, and is the most
well known project to come from the ASF.  It has *always* been
referred to as 'apache' when talking about "the web server I run on my
linux box" by Joe Linux-user.  There is nothing from the ASF that is
as well known.  It's also the *only* ASF project to not actually have
a name, a al tomcat, jackrabbit, etc.


 When dealing with software which handles HTTP in any way, generally,
we call it Apache Web Server, specificall to differentiate Apache
Tomcat.


Well, this is clearly user error and said user ought to be beaten with
a clue-stick until they attain the level of pedantry required to
effectively communicate with those of our nature ;)


 Not really.  Apache can handle Tomcat and anything else within the
same instance.  I can run it separately, or together.

 Actually, I suppose in a way your right.  From a lower level
standpoint, the Apache httpd is using a module to communicate with the
Tomcat Application server, but it's a blurry line, because of the way
the Apache module works.

--
-- Thomas
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Re: httpd lineage

[Neil Joseph Schelly]

On Thursday 08 February 2007 09:20 am, you wrote:
> Debian wins on the package/process naming front, while RH wins the
> username category.  IMO, the username (for this particular example) is
> fine as either apache or httpd.  But www-data?

The username is relatively arbitrary, so long as it's not nobody or something 
these days.  You could run any webserver you want though and they should all 
theoretically run as the same username.  If you ran thttpd and ran it as 
apache, would that make sense?  I would want those processes to have access 
to the same data if I'm running a wiki or something where the applications 
running in the web server require some level of privileged access to the 
filesystem.
-Neil
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Re: httpd lineage

[Paul Lussier]

Christopher Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 09:20:14AM -0500, Paul Lussier wrote:
>> I'm a big fan of consistency. Call the package what the package is.
>> httpd is not the name of the software, that would be apache.  
>
> Er... I don't think I agree with you. The name of the software is
> "Apache HTTP Server". Saying that the name of the software is Apache is
> ignoring the fact that there are about 40 other projects equally capable
> of taking the name 'Apache': Everything from 'Apache Jackrabbit' to
> 'Apache Xalan'.

Well, yeah, sure, but the http server was the first, and is the most
well known project to come from the ASF.  It has *always* been
referred to as 'apache' when talking about "the web server I run on my
linux box" by Joe Linux-user.  There is nothing from the ASF that is
as well known.  It's also the *only* ASF project to not actually have
a name, a al tomcat, jackrabbit, etc.

> "Apache" is totally non-specific, and I've had people
> tell me they have 'Apache' running when what they really have running is
> Tomcat.

Well, this is clearly user error and said user ought to be beaten with
a clue-stick until they attain the level of pedantry required to
effectively communicate with those of our nature ;)

-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853  E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE

A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Paul Lussier]

Christopher Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 09:46:54AM -0500, Drew Van Zandt wrote:
>> I find the redhat httpd (and thus by extension the w3c naming)
>
> Er, W3C? What relation does the W3C bear to Apache, or even webservers?

Errr, the webserver must spew-forth http, which is defined by the w3c?
(Just a guess here :)

>> Now, which httpd is that in the process list, again?
>
> Do you find bind ('named') irritating in the same way?

Oh, don't get me started on *that* can of worms!  Oops, too late! ;)

Yeah, let's call the software BIND, but the process 'named', and
squirrel all the config files away under /etc/bind, but call the
actual config file named.conf.  For added clarity we set the username
under which we'll run the daemon to bind but the process to named with
a user argumemnt of bind...

Grrr.  Just call everything named or bind, I don't care which, but c'mon!

-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
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A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Re: Objections to JTC-1 Fast-Track Processing of the Ecma 376 Specification v. 0.1

[Bill Sconce]

On Sat, 03 Feb 2007 22:16:40 -0500
Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "Greg Rundlett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > example, look at the contraindications brought to light regarding how
> 
> Not to pick on Greg personally, but since he sent this to the list,


Not to pick on Paul personally, but there is no misspelling in the
line he picked on.


> I'd like to use it as a reminder to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE use a
> spellchecker.  More importantly, before hitting that 'Send this
> message now' button, proof-read your own e-mail.

Amen.

-Bill
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CMS comparison [ was: Web software for a family web site? ]

[Paul Lussier]

Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>
> Coincidentally, Guy Pardoe is doing a presentation on Joomla!, one of
> the top dozen contenders (along with Xaraya, that GNHLUG member
> Jonathan Linowes presented last year [1]) this very evening in
> Peterborough:

I would love a follow-up posting of this meeting.  I've been looking
at WordPress over the past week and playing around with it on my
laptop (If anyone has a Mac, and you want to play with LAMP stuff, get
MAMP!)  I've been fairly impressed so far, but also planned on looking
at Joomla! (with, imo, has a cooler name just because it sounds rather
silly :)

-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
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A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Drew Van Zandt]

Er, W3C? What relation does the W3C bear to Apache, or even webservers?


Sorry, I/O error... though I would suggest the W3C has a bit of
relation to webservers, since they use HTTP.  See also
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/


Do you find bind ('named') irritating in the same way?


Slightly less irritating (in practice) since I don't currently run
BIND, but just as irritating semantically.  See also "SQL Server" and
pretty much any similar naming ambiguity I happen across.

--DTVZ
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Re: Web software for a family web site?

[Ben Scott]

On 2/8/07, Randy Edwards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

   What I'm thinking would be nice is a web-based, newbie-friendly mailing
list for gossip and family news.  Mailman or whatever would do for that.


 I'd suggest something more web-centric -- most casual users seem to
prefer that UI.  Web bulletin board software, or maybe blog software.
Something that can gateway to sending email would enable automatic
harassment of everyone else.

-- Ben
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httpd lineage

[Ben Scott]

On 2/8/07, Paul Lussier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Actually, the Apache Software Foundation spells it "httpd".  Nobody
paid any attention until Red Hat changed the package names.  Now
nobody but Red Hat pays any attention.  :)


Oh, is that what happened?  Heh, that's kinda funny. So, technically
Debian is wrong :)


 I dunno...

 Red Hat used to call the packages apache-*, but changed to httpd-*
instead.  But since they were being pedantic anyway, they really
should have used apache-httpd-* as the package names.  "Apache" is the
name of the organization; "httpd" is the name of their big project;
there are other "httpd" programs out there.

 As far as the executable name goes, "httpd" is prolly the closest
thing to an objective correct name, since that's what the ASF default
is.  If ambiguity between "httpd" programs is a concern, using a
directory (like /usr/libexec/apache-2.0/httpd or /opt/apache/bin/httpd
or whatever convention one prefers) would be the "correct" thing to
do.


Perhaps.  At one time wasn't the user was also 'apache'?  Debian has
sadly moved to using 'www-data' as their "web-server username", which
I really hate.


 E.  Yah.  I mean, okay, maybe you want to have a standard
executable name for all the various web servers, but "httpd" or "www"
or something would be much better.  "www-data" implies, well, that
it's only for data, which is really bogus -- the whole point is to
give the web server *program* something specific to run as.

 And I must say, this whole thread is remarkably pedantic, even for
this group.  ;-)

-- Ben
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Re: Web software for a family web site?

[Seth Cohn]

On 2/8/07, Ted Roche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

A general-purpose content management system would let you have forums
for chat, a calendar, a photo gallery, news items, rss feeds, etc.
Lock it down with authentication and let them use it as they wish.
Most of the top CMS have pretty granular security, so you can keep
private what should be private while still allowing enough of the
site to be visible to the web that far-flung relatives might be able
to Google you and join in the discussion.



Coincidentally, Guy Pardoe is doing a presentation on Joomla!, one of
the top dozen contenders (along with Xaraya, that GNHLUG member
Jonathan Linowes presented last year [1]) this very evening in
Peterborough...


I'll put in 2 cents for Drupal... the latest version will give you all
of that, and more...
And lots of addons, including everything from wishlists and geneology,
to audio and video, easy photo uploading, to newsletters and more...
http://drupal.org/project/Modules/name is a long long list of things...

Truly, any of the good CMSes will do what you want, the real question
is what do you feel comfortable with... as Ted said, there are a
number of them...
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Re: Web software for a family web site?

[Ted Roche]

On Feb 8, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Randy Edwards wrote:
   I'm debating putting up a family web site.  Like most families,  
ours is

scattered geographically and it's hard to keep track of all the aunts,
uncles, cousins, nieces, etc.

   A web site for this seems like a no-brainer.  And I'm sure some  
people have

written software to accomplish the "normal" tasks.


A general-purpose content management system would let you have forums  
for chat, a calendar, a photo gallery, news items, rss feeds, etc.  
Lock it down with authentication and let them use it as they wish.  
Most of the top CMS have pretty granular security, so you can keep  
private what should be private while still allowing enough of the  
site to be visible to the web that far-flung relatives might be able  
to Google you and join in the discussion. A few years ago, I posted  
scans of my grandmother's photo album that my dad had organized, and  
it was delightful making contact with my many relations in Nova  
Scotia and across Canada.


Coincidentally, Guy Pardoe is doing a presentation on Joomla!, one of  
the top dozen contenders (along with Xaraya, that GNHLUG member  
Jonathan Linowes presented last year [1]) this very evening in  
Peterborough:


http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.gnhlug/8437

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org/ 
msg13305.html


Ted Roche
Ted Roche & Associates, LLC
http://www.tedroche.com



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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Christopher Schmidt]

On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 09:46:54AM -0500, Drew Van Zandt wrote:
> I find the redhat httpd (and thus by extension the w3c naming)

Er, W3C? What relation does the W3C bear to Apache, or even webservers?

> irritating, because despite popular belief, apache isn't the only
> (*nix) http server around.  Yes, it's the Cadillac, but thttpd (for
> example) excels for things apache isn't good at (and won't be because
> they require different design decisions.)
> 
> Now, which httpd is that in the process list, again?

Do you find bind ('named') irritating in the same way?

Regards,
-- 
Christopher Schmidt
Web Developer
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Re: Web software for a family web site?

[Randy Edwards]

 > If you're into genealogy at all, I definitely recommend GeneWeb
 > (http://pauillac.inria.fr/~ddr/GeneWeb/)

   I'm not, but I have a daughter that is so that was definitely a thought.  
I've looked at , but since my knowledge of 
genealogy is about nil, I can't make an informed software feature comparison.

   I'll take a look at GeneWeb, thanks.

 .
 Randy

-- 
Fast fact: Combining the gross domestic products of the 48 poorest nations 
(representing 25% of global population) yields a figure that is less than the 
wealth of the three richest people in the world.
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Re: Web software for a family web site?

[Drew Van Zandt]

My family (or the local-ish members, anyway) use a merchant-agnostic
"gift registry" package I found somewhere, and love it.  No duplicate
gifts, ideas when you can't think of anything...

--DTVZ
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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Drew Van Zandt]

I find the redhat httpd (and thus by extension the w3c naming)
irritating, because despite popular belief, apache isn't the only
(*nix) http server around.  Yes, it's the Cadillac, but thttpd (for
example) excels for things apache isn't good at (and won't be because
they require different design decisions.)

Now, which httpd is that in the process list, again?

--DTVZ
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Re: httpd lineage

[Christopher Schmidt]

On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 09:20:14AM -0500, Paul Lussier wrote:
> I'm a big fan of consistency. Call the package what the package is.
> httpd is not the name of the software, that would be apache.  

Er... I don't think I agree with you. The name of the software is
"Apache HTTP Server". Saying that the name of the software is Apache is
ignoring the fact that there are about 40 other projects equally capable
of taking the name 'Apache': Everything from 'Apache Jackrabbit' to
'Apache Xalan'. "Apache" is totally non-specific, and I've had people
tell me they have 'Apache' running when what they really have running is
Tomcat.

This confusion obviously sucks, but I don't think someone can claim that
either Debian or Red Hat is in the right here, since neither calls it
apache-httpd :) 

Regards,
-- 
Christopher Schmidt
Web Developer
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Re: [GNHLUG] MerriLUG Nashua, Thurs 15 Feb, Linux Saves Windows Server - Bill Gates Delighted!

[mike shlitz]

Hi Jim,

RSVP for two please...

Thanks,

Mike



--- Jim Kuzdrall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Who  : Lloyd Kvam, Dartmouth-Lake Sunapee LUG
> What : Linux box protecting the Internet from a
> Windows server
> Where: Martha's Exchange
> Day  : Thur 15 February **Next Week** (Galileo's
> Birthday)
> Time : 6:00 PM for grub, 7:30 PM for discussion
> 
> :: Overview
> 
> Want to get the most out of the Linux firewall
> technology?  Do 
> iptables, bridging, ebtables, and Ethernet frames
> need a good review?   
> Would you welcome a small, $65 "filter" computer
> that better isolates 
> your computers from Internet attacks? 
> 
> Lloyd Kvam uses a delightfully clever reverse
> application to review 
> Linux firewall installation.  He placed a small
> Linux computer between a 
> virus-compromised Windows server and the Internet to
> intercept spurious 
> broadcasts from Windows, thereby protecting the
> Internet!  (And, it was 
> not necessary to take the Windows machine off-line
> for hours to purge 
> its viruses.)
> 
> Learn about protection strategies, openwrt Linux
> for routers, and 
> the Linksys wrt54gl hardware.  Your new prowess may
> help you get more 
> from all your firewall applications.
> 
>  >>> RSVP to Jim Kuzdrall for dinner to assure
> adequate seating. <<<
>  !!! If you are not a "Regular Attendee", please let
> me know. !!!
> 
> Driving directions:
>
http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/PlaceMarthasExchange
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim Kuzdrall
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> 



 

Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com.  Try it now.
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Re: Web software for a family web site?

[Matt Snell]

On Thu, Feb 08, 2007 at 09:04:35AM -0500, Randy Edwards wrote:
>I'm debating putting up a family web site.  Like most families, ours is
> scattered geographically and it's hard to keep track of all the aunts,
> uncles, cousins, nieces, etc.

I do hope it works out for you, I've been trying to get my family to have
even the slightest interest in something like this for ages!

> (1) What other types of "family functions" do you think a family web site
> should have?
> (2) What specific free software web apps would you recommend?

My latest plan for drawing family members into the fold is offering them
personal blogs (Wordpress).

I usually use free webspace for posting secret Santa Christmas lists, we do a
grab,
everyone sends me their lists and I publish.  If you do something similar,
might be good for you.



--
M@, Linux User #415137
ICQ: 347886968
http://linuxneophyte.com

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Re: The new 'Linux Foundation'

[Paul Lussier]

"Ben Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Actually, the Apache Software Foundation spells it "httpd".  Nobody
> paid any attention until Red Hat changed the package names.  Now
> nobody but Red Hat pays any attention.  :)

Oh, is that what happened?  Heh, that's kinda funny.  So, technically
Debian is wrong :)

-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853  E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE

A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Re: httpd lineage

[Paul Lussier]

Bill McGonigle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> In the process list or package name?  Paul was talking 'ps'.  I guess
> you could modify the apache build scripts to make a binary called
> apache'.

Either.  Though a quick comparison between a standard Debian box and a
standard RHES box both running apache shows this:

RH box:

# ps -ef |grep http
root  5134 1  0 Jan09 ?  00:00:02 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   13847  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:26 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   13860  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:26 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   13864  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:26 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   13869  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:24 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   13871  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:25 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   13872  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:24 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   14072  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:24 /usr/sbin/httpd
apache   24388  5134  0 08:06 ?  00:00:00 /usr/sbin/httpd
root 24847 12791  0 09:03 pts/1  00:00:00 grep http

Debian box:
$ ps -ef|grep apache
root  4445 1  0 06:26 ?  00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start -DSSL
www-data  4448  4445  0 06:26 ?  00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start -DSSL
www-data  4449  4445  0 06:26 ?  00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start -DSSL
www-data  4450  4445  0 06:26 ?  00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start -DSSL
www-data  4451  4445  0 06:26 ?  00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start -DSSL
www-data  4452  4445  0 06:26 ?  00:00:00 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start -DSSL
pll  10956  4497  0 09:05 pts/13 00:00:00 grep apache

Additionally, Debian actually *calls* the package apache, vs RH, which
calls it httpd:

  # rpm -q apache
  package apache is not installed
  # rpm -q apache2
  package apache2 is not installed
  # rpm -q httpd
  httpd-2.0.46-32.ent

  $ dpkg -l \*apache\*| awk '/ii/ {print $3,$2}'
  2.0.53-5 apache2-common
  2.0.53-5 apache2-mpm-prefork
  2.0.53-5 apache2-utils

  $ dpkg -l \*httpd\*| awk '/ii/ {print $3,$2}'
  $ 

I'm a big fan of consistency. Call the package what the package is.
httpd is not the name of the software, that would be apache.  Name the
process which shows up in ps something similar to the name of the
package, which should show some resemblance to the actual name of the
software.  Ideally, the username under which that software is run
would be something similar, but should be at least intuitive.

Debian wins on the package/process naming front, while RH wins the
username category.  IMO, the username (for this particular example) is
fine as either apache or httpd.  But www-data?

The preferred ps output for me is something like

   apache  13847  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:26 /usr/sbin/apache2
or 
   httpd   13847  5134  0 Feb07 ?  00:00:26 /usr/sbin/apache2

and a package name which includes apache.

-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853  E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE

A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Re: Web software for a family web site?

[Cole Tuininga]

On Thu, 2007-02-08 at 09:04 -0500, Randy Edwards wrote:
> (1) What other types of "family functions" do you think a family web site 
> should have?
> 
> (2) What specific free software web apps would you recommend?

If you're into genealogy at all, I definitely recommend GeneWeb
(http://pauillac.inria.fr/~ddr/GeneWeb/) It runs as a stand alone
daemon, and requires ocaml to compile, but I have yet to meet a better
or more full fledged genealogy package.

My own can be viewed at http://tuininga.org:2317/tuininga if anybody is
interested.

-- 
Cole Tuininga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.code-energy.com/

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Re: httpd lineage

[Paul Lussier]

Bill McGonigle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I used to be able to 'ps ax | grep apache' because of pathing - with
> Redhat's in /usr/sbin/httpd you can't do that anymore - maybe that's
> what you're recalling.

Perhaps.  At one time wasn't the user was also 'apache'?  Debian has
sadly moved to using 'www-data' as their "web-server username", which
I really hate.  Hmmm, it seems on the one RH boxes I have, the user
owning the /usr/sbin/httpd process is still apache.  2 points for RH
over Debian there :)

-- 
Seeya,
Paul
--
Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853  E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE

A: Yes.   
> Q: Are you sure?
>> A: Because it reverses the logical flow of conversation.   
>>> Q: Why is top posting annoying in email?
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Web software for a family web site?

[Randy Edwards]

   I'm debating putting up a family web site.  Like most families, ours is 
scattered geographically and it's hard to keep track of all the aunts, 
uncles, cousins, nieces, etc.

   A web site for this seems like a no-brainer.  And I'm sure some people have 
written software to accomplish the "normal" tasks.

   What I'm thinking would be nice is a web-based, newbie-friendly mailing 
list for gossip and family news.  Mailman or whatever would do for that.

   But thinking about it, a "group calendar" would be great in that it'd allow 
anyone in the family to enter in birthdays and anniversaries and such.  What 
a god-send it'd be to have all that neatly entered into a calendar, eh?

   So here are my questions:

(1) What other types of "family functions" do you think a family web site 
should have?

(2) What specific free software web apps would you recommend?


 TIA,
 .
 Randy

-- 
Fast fact: 20% of the human race does not have access to clean water and 31% 
of the world's population has no electricity.
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[GNHLUG] MerriLUG Nashua, Thurs 15 Feb, Linux Saves Windows Server - Bill Gates Delighted!

[Jim Kuzdrall]

Who  : Lloyd Kvam, Dartmouth-Lake Sunapee LUG
What : Linux box protecting the Internet from a Windows server
Where: Martha's Exchange
Day  : Thur 15 February **Next Week** (Galileo's Birthday)
Time : 6:00 PM for grub, 7:30 PM for discussion

:: Overview

    Want to get the most out of the Linux firewall technology?  Do 
iptables, bridging, ebtables, and Ethernet frames need a good review?   
Would you welcome a small, $65 "filter" computer that better isolates 
your computers from Internet attacks? 

    Lloyd Kvam uses a delightfully clever reverse application to review 
Linux firewall installation.  He placed a small Linux computer between a 
virus-compromised Windows server and the Internet to intercept spurious 
broadcasts from Windows, thereby protecting the Internet!  (And, it was 
not necessary to take the Windows machine off-line for hours to purge 
its viruses.)

    Learn about protection strategies, openwrt Linux for routers, and 
the Linksys wrt54gl hardware.  Your new prowess may help you get more 
from all your firewall applications.

 >>> RSVP to Jim Kuzdrall for dinner to assure adequate seating. <<<
 !!! If you are not a "Regular Attendee", please let me know. !!!

Driving directions:
http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/PlaceMarthasExchange

Thanks,

Jim Kuzdrall
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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