[GNHLUG] [DLSLUG-Announce] DLSLUG Monthly Meeting 2012-08-02 (FIXED SUBJECT DATE)
(arrgh I need to automate this announce email so that I stop flubbing the date) Notes: The past_meetings page has been updated and includes links to Gabe's XUTools and Mike's slides about ebooks and the publishing industry. http://dlslug.org/past_meetings.html Next Meeting Aug 2 Web Applications I will be talking about web applications. Examples will rely on Python frameworks, but I'll try to cover the general issues. At: Dartmouth College Rockefeller Class of 1930 Room Admission is free All are welcome 5:30 Pre-meeting dinner at Everything But Anchovies. That's a pizza joint on Allen Street by the Dartmouth Bookstore. http://www.ebas.com/ RSVP and bring cash. 7:00 Sign-in, networking 7:10 Introductory remarks 7:15 Featured Presentation -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp DLSLUG/GNHLUG library http://dlslug.org/library.html http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslugsort=stamp http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug -- Lloyd Kvam Venix Corp DLSLUG/GNHLUG library http://dlslug.org/library.html http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslug http://www.librarything.com/catalog/dlslugsort=stamp http://www.librarything.com/rss/recent/dlslug ___ DLSLUG-Announce mailing list dlslug-annou...@dlslug.org http://dlslug.org/mailman/listinfo/dlslug-announce ___ gnhlug-announce mailing list gnhlug-annou...@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-announce/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
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http://beer-x.com/werom1.html ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Boston Linux Meeting Wednesday, April 15, 2009 UNIX, Linux, and BSD: A Look Back (again) (fixed subject)
When: April 15, 2009 7PM (6:30PM for QA) Topic: UNIX, Linux, and BSD: A Look Back (again) Moderators: Clem Cole Location: MIT Building E51, Room 395 Clem discusses the history of UNIX, Linux and BSD. This will include Unix development in the 1970s, through its commercialization in the 1980s and Open Source movement. He will also discuss the how it spread through the academic world. For further information and directions please consult the BLU Web site http://www.blu.org Please note that there is usually plenty of free parking in the E-51 parking lot at 2 Amherst St, or on Amherst St. We will adjourn to the Cambridge Brewery for our after meeting meeting. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
[no subject]
I've got a server that's been giving strange errors lately. Most noticeably, when I login, I get several errors of the form -bash: [: =: unary operator expected I've traced these to files under /etc/profile.d, and on further testing I find that the offending lines are using backquotes, e.g. if [ `/usr/bin/id -u` = 0 ] ; then When I try to use backquotes on the command line on this server, I get no output. Even stranger, if I have a suspended vi job, then running something in backquotes terminates the vi process: $ vi foo ^Z [1]+ Stopped nvi foo $ echo `echo bar` [1]+ Terminated nvi foo If I do this on my other systems, I get $ echo `echo bar` bar and the vi job does not terminate. I've tried googling for these symptoms, but so far I haven't found a match. Has anyone else run across this odd behavior? What could be causing it? The server with the broken behavior is running CentOS release 5.2, and bash is bash-3.2-21.el5. -- John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux Unix IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9 PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Subject: [OT] Charging UPS batteries outside the UPS
Ben - I've almost never seen an APC Smart-UPS that was actually defective. I'd certainly take a chance on the batteries. There's an outfit on Ebay that sells a privately branded ZEUS SLA battery at a very reasonable price (batteryman20). I've ordered many times had very good luck with their batteries. They have a RBC12 set of batteries for $66.75 with $31.88 shipping. If your batteries are down to 2v they will never take enough of a charge to make the UPS trigger on (in my experience). Also one of the links in most APC supplies is a fuse. I'm not sure about the 3000 - but it's true of the 1000 and 1500va units. Make sure that it isn't open. Good luck! - Gary From: Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Greater NH Linux User Group gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 22:10:30 -0400 Subject: [OT] Charging UPS batteries outside the UPS I've got an APC Smart-UPS 3000 (P/N SU3000RM3U) which I picked up for free (someone was getting rid of it). ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On Mar 27, 2007, at 11:58, Ben Scott wrote: For example: I cannot help but note that this thread really has very little to do with Subject Lines on the Mailing list, and *never did*. I'm going to play the I don't get it card, and it has to do with Subject Lines. I set my mailer to organize messages by thread, and if I'm not interested in the subject line I ignore the messages. There are three threads today I'm not going to read. When I'm done reading GNHLUG mail for the day, I mark all as read and don't look back. If somebody wanted to fork the thread and didn't feel like starting a new one, oh well. So, I don't get it. BTW, mailman has a feature called 'topics'. I have no idea what they actually do. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 New Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
(no subject)
Unfortunately, that is only a bootable disk, it doesn't have all the installed utilities/setup files etc. But thanks for the site, looks pretty useful. Grab a DOS 6.22 utility image from http://bootdisk.com/ Very handy site. -Shawn On 3/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And I am hoping I am not infringing on the newly installed rules, but I have need to install DOS 6.22 in a VM on one of my systems, however, my original DOS6.22 install disk (disk 1) appears to be blank. Does anyone have either an ISO /dd image of Disk 1 that I could use to recover my original disk. Thanks Chris ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
From the viewpoint of one who pontificates a lot on the list, I have also the pain of those who just want technical information, and do not want to join in the greater discussions, but this issue is not just technical' versus non-technical. For example, recently people kept using the subject line Re: mythtvfest long after the topic had turned away from the Fest and even from MythTV, but I did not want to miss any information or questions having to do with the upcoming MythtvFest. Every time I saw MythtvFest in the subject line I felt duty-bound to read it, even if that email had nothing to do with the fest at all. If the respondents had changed the subject line after the topic changed, I could have ignored that subject if I wanted to ignore it, but this takes discipline, and I admit that I am occasionally guilty of this myself. Perhaps the discuss list should be broken down into two parts: discuss-tech discuss-social with discuss simply being the union of the two. I fear that this would isolate some of our best minds from legitimate discussions, but that should be their decision. maddog ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On 3/27/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every time I saw MythtvFest in the subject line I felt duty-bound to read it ... Yah, I do try to change the subject line when forking a thread. The problem is, most people don't -- they just keep hitting Reply to all all day long. It's worse when I try to change the subject line, but others don't, so the thread continues under two subjects. It's worse still when multiple people try to change the subject line at once, so now we've got multiple alternative subjects, plus the people still using the original subject line. ~sigh~ ... this takes discipline ... Something people don't seem to be good at, in general, I've noticed. Perhaps the discuss list should be broken down into two parts: Yah, this has been proposed here before. By me, even. There are a problems with it: (1) Where to draw the line? Politics and everything else? Technical and non-technical? What's technical and what isn't? Who decides? Social? What about politics? I might like hearing about opinions on TV shows others like, but want to avoid the ever-popular evil gov'mint discussions. (1)(a) What about those who insist on ramming their personal agendas down everyone's throats? And where do we draw the line *there*? When does it stop being a preference and start being an agenda? (2) What about discussions which touch both subjects? Where does that go? And most of all: (3) This requires just as much, if not more, discipline than changing the subject line. If we can't get people to mind the subject line, how can we get them to manage this? discuss-tech discuss-social with discuss simply being the union of the two. I'm not sure how well that would work in practice, especially given the reply all and discipline problems previously described. I suspect we'd see most threads ending up being cross-posted to both lists. Any which way we slice it, if we want to go in this direction, we need to designate some topic police. Which I'm okay with doing, if that's what people want, but given past discussions on this meta-topic, I'm not sure it's what people want. (Currently, the only real rule we have (and it just came into being yesterday, per me) is the banning of instructions on how to perform illegal activities, or pointers to same. That's a legal shit-magnet I just don't want on a server I personally own.) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On 3/27/07, Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/27/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perhaps the discuss list should be broken down into two parts: Yah, this has been proposed here before. By me, even. There are a I think if we look at the archives, the largest discussion topic would be over off topic posts and splitting the list. As you point out, getting people to change the subject line is difficult enough, let alone responding to two lists. Since two lists have been proposed over and over again but not acted on, why not try it if it doesn't increase the admin work load? At the least, it should cut down on the debate. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On 3/27/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not think that the discussion of politics by itself is reasonable in any gnhlug list. From time to time an aside done in support of some point about Linux, but nothing about parties and their people. That should rapidly be rejected. I don't recall that we've *ever* had anyone go so far as to start campaigning for their preferred candidate. The worst was some brief Bush-bashing. But we have had several long, involved threads about mostly political issues. Copyright issues. Taxes. Free speech issues. Taxes. Effectiveness of voting. Taxes. Patents. Tollbooths. And so on. People have argued that any of these might impact us, as NH Linux users, so they're on-topic. Given that we don't have a list charter, it's hard to call *anything* off-topic. The real sticking point is where one half the group feels one way strongly and the other half feels the other way (or neutral) strongly. I think that should be put on discuss-social. If people have strong technical views, I could read those almost the entire day Okay, again, what if someone else doesn't agree with where you draw your own personal line? For example, we (and by we I mean me) have spent hours endlessly debating the finer points of, say, DNS implementation or security policies. It may be that most of the membership really does not care. So where does that go? Meanwhile, a brief message or two on an upcoming TV special may be well-appreciated by the readership of the -tech list, no? What about the occasional astronomy-related message? Does that go to -tech (it's not Linux) or -social (but still technical)? I'm not just arguing to be argumentative (that's room 12A); these are questions that would need to be answered for anything like a list charter to be drawn up. ... (and then ignore them later with the proper subject line). Your parenthetical remark is one of my main points. We still have the off-topic, endless debate, and discipline issues. Moving the traffic around doesn't make those issues go away. (2) What about discussions which touch both subjects? Where does that go? Gentle guidance from the group. If gentle guidance works, wouldn't gentle guidance from the group be sufficient to just tell people to take it off-list? Or just plain shut up? :-) should be picked as carefully as the first subject line. I know from experience that the best subject line in the world can still end up completely off-topic in about three replies. I suspect you do, too. :) Humorous illustration: http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/pictures/ThreadHijack/thread_direction.gif You could join discuss and get both. What happens when someone posts to -social, but I (subscribed to -discuss) reply to -discuss? We could try it, and if it does not work what have we really lost? Depends on the transition grief. For example, who do we subscribe to which list? Or do we start both lists empty? I am actually not that displeased with the current arrangement ... Me neither. What I actually think might be best would be just the occasional nudge (from *anyone*) suggesting, Hey, you two seem the only two people interested in this discussion, how about you take it off-list? People who ignore nudges can be nudged harder. With a 2x4, as needed. But I am concerned because there may be people who leave the discuss mailing list because of the larger number of emails they get the whole day. It's not just quantity of mail, though. Like you point out, many messages on a topic you, personally, are interested in, you will gladly read. But even a couple messages on, say, tax law reform might make your eyes glaze over. Other people's mileage may vary. We're trying to be all things to all people. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On 3/27/07, Tom Buskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since two lists have been proposed over and over again but not acted on, why not try it if it doesn't increase the admin work load? *Because* it has been proposed over and over again, but not acted on. It hasn't been acted on because nothing like consensus has ever been reached. At the least, it should cut down on the debate. I'm not even sure about that much (see my concerns about what's appropriates for which list). -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On 3/27/07, Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: should be picked as carefully as the first subject line. I know from experience that the best subject line in the world can still end up completely off-topic in about three replies. I suspect you do, too. :) For example: I cannot help but note that this thread really has very little to do with Subject Lines on the Mailing list, and *never did*. Oh, the irony, it burns. ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
I don't recall that we've *ever* had anyone go so far as to start campaigning for their preferred candidate. The worst was some brief Bush-bashing. But we have had several long, involved threads about mostly political issues. Copyright issues. I think that copyright issues and software (both free and otherwise) are decent topics for the social list. Again, with a decent Subject line you could avoid them if you wished. And perhaps we should be more forceful in helping people to use digests, where these things have been debated beforenot to escape the issue, but to bring the prospective poster up to speed with where we have been. Taxes. Perhaps someone can draw an analogy where Taxes (other than the Microsoft Tax, or import duties) have an impact on free software. If they can't, then maybe we should not be discussing it. If they can, then probably on the social list. Free speech issues. As relating to Free Software? Social Taxes. Effectiveness of voting. Technical standpoints (encryption, authentication, logging, armoring, verification) - technical Social standpoints (closed vs open code) - tech And in this particular case, perhaps a note to announce stating the issue and where and what aspects will be discussed. Taxes. Uhhh, Ben, could you please go to the archives and look up Taxes? Patents Again, both technical and social issues. Which are being discussed? For example, known ways of implementing mp3 without invoking the royalty patent payment? Technical Why should we have to pay royalty payments for a standard? Social Tollbooths. And so on. People have argued that any of these might impact us, as NH Linux users, so they're on-topic. And Global warming and child pornography, but I have not seen long discussions of them on the list either. For example, we (and by we I mean me) have spent hours endlessly debating the finer points of, say, DNS implementation or security policies. It may be that most of the membership really does not care. So where does that go? Ben, I could listen to you argue the finer parts of DNS implementation for days. Well, maybe hours. At least a few minutes. Then, I assume that I would ignore that subject line. Or at least emails from Ben Scott on that subject line. Meanwhile, a brief message or two on an upcoming TV special may be well-appreciated by the readership of the -tech list, no? gnhlug-announce What about the occasional astronomy-related message? Does that go to -tech (it's not Linux) or -social (but still technical)? astronomy in general? Aren't there mailing lists that deal with that? Aren't you subscribed to them? A cool FOSS astronomy application? gnhlug-announce...one time, with a pointer to where it will be discussed. I'm not just arguing to be argumentative (that's room 12A); these are questions that would need to be answered for anything like a list charter to be drawn up. ... (and then ignore them later with the proper subject line). Your parenthetical remark is one of my main points. We still have the off-topic, endless debate, and discipline issues. Moving the traffic around doesn't make those issues go away. (2) What about discussions which touch both subjects? Where does that go? Gentle guidance from the group. If gentle guidance works, wouldn't gentle guidance from the group be sufficient to just tell people to take it off-list? Or just plain shut up? :-) should be picked as carefully as the first subject line. I know from experience that the best subject line in the world can still end up completely off-topic in about three replies. I suspect you do, too. :) Humorous illustration: http://www.kaitaia.com/funny/pictures/ThreadHijack/thread_direction.gif You could join discuss and get both. What happens when someone posts to -social, but I (subscribed to -discuss) reply to -discuss? We could try it, and if it does not work what have we really lost? Depends on the transition grief. For example, who do we subscribe to which list? Or do we start both lists empty? I am actually not that displeased with the current arrangement ... Me neither. What I actually think might be best would be just the occasional nudge (from *anyone*) suggesting, Hey, you two seem the only two people interested in this discussion, how about you take it off-list? People who ignore nudges can be nudged harder. With a 2x4, as needed. If it were only two it would be easier, but if there are two arguing and ten who are mildly interested, it becomes harder. And often the 2x4 leaves splinters, even if not intentional. But I am concerned because there may be people who leave the discuss mailing list because of the larger number of emails they get the whole day. It's not just quantity of mail, though. Like you point out, many messages on a topic you, personally, are interested in, you
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
For example: I cannot help but note that this thread really has very little to do with Subject Lines on the Mailing list, and *never did*. Oh, the irony, it burns. ;-) I disagree. This thread has to do with being easily able to determine the basic content of the email, and it was originally suggested that making sure that subject lines matched up with the message and changing them to match. We are now discussing other ways of doing the same thing, but I am still incorporating the concept of using apt subject lines. You are off talking about taxes and toll booths. I don't think it is the irony that is burning. md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Dividing The List Considered Harmful [Was: Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]]
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 11:52:01AM -0400, Ben Scott wrote: [...] I'm not just arguing to be argumentative (that's room 12A); these are questions that would need to be answered for anything like a list charter to be drawn up. ... (and then ignore them later with the proper subject line). Your parenthetical remark is one of my main points. We still have the off-topic, endless debate, and discipline issues. Moving the traffic around doesn't make those issues go away. [...] You could join discuss and get both. What happens when someone posts to -social, but I (subscribed to -discuss) reply to -discuss? We could try it, and if it does not work what have we really lost? Depends on the transition grief. For example, who do we subscribe to which list? Or do we start both lists empty? I have been through this a few times in the past, with different groups, where the decision was eventually made to fragment the list into multiple lists with more focused charters. I have, to date, never seen it work well. With one exception, all of the mailing lists I have seen fragmented this way have either reverted back to a single main list (sometimes with a separate, often moderated list for announcments, like we have), or gone away entirely. That one exception had strongly focused charters, very clear lines on what topics were appropriate on which lists, and a large team of volunteer list-cops (over 50 when I was in charge of managing them) to keep things on track and ban chronic offenders. They did not have the proposed bad idea of subscribing each of the sub-lists to another list to form a combined list. Even there, the off-topic posts remained, and there was the additional problem of posts being sent to the wrong list, or crossposted to multiple lists. They stuck with it, at the cost of enormous volunteer churn, and lost a large chunk of their membership, myself included, when the transition grief was still increasing more than a year after the actual transition was made. I *STRONGLY* believe that this sort of change would be bad for GNHLUG in the long run. Consider how successful the various mailing lists for the local chapters have been. Consider how troublesome trying to keep the job postings on the gnhlug-jobs list has been. Consider how successful the linux cafe list, created in response to exactly this complaint back in 2005, was. Does anyone really think this particular division will be more succesful than either of those? If GNHLUG does choose to fragment the list into -social and -tech, please DO NOT try to create a combined 'discuss' list that is subscribed to both, the problems with people replying to the wrong places would be enormous. People who want both can subscribe to both easily enough. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenPGP KeyID 0x57C3430B Holder of Past Knowledge CS, O- Remind me again what it is called when one keeps trying the same thing expecting different results? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Dividing The List Considered Harmful [Was: Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]]
My $0.02: If a couple of guys are posting something you're tired of hearing about on the list, and you don't want to do some sort of filtering to drop it... send all those discussing it on list an OFF-LIST polite note Isn't that sort of offtopic? The chatter's drowning out the Linux talk. I don't know about you guys, but I'd get embarassed (assuming it wasn't obviously on-topic, like discussion of how well Linux ran on a laptop I was considering buying) and drop it. Anyone who doesn't get the hint will undoubtedly be jumped on on-list anyway. In my experience, technical solutions to something that isn't a technical problem are unlikely to work, just as political solutions to technical problems are unlikely to work. --DTVZ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Dividing The List Considered Harmful [Was: Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]]
That's the strongest argument I've heard against splitting. Thank you for changing my opinion. Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment :-) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
One of the things we've been trying to do on the BLU list is when someone posts a job messages, they put [JOB] at the beginning of the subject. Another convention a few people have been using is [OT] for off-topic discussions. Additionally, it is not good form to hijack threads. basically, IMHO, the GNHLUG is low volume enough that it probably would not need to be split into 3 lists, as Maddog suggested, though it would not be difficult to create the 2 additional lists, and use the main discuss list as a target of both. -- Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 01:50:56PM -0400, Jerry Feldman wrote: basically, IMHO, the GNHLUG is low volume enough that it probably would not need to be split into 3 lists, as Maddog suggested, though it would not be difficult to create the 2 additional lists, and use the main discuss list as a target of both. Say you have three sub-lists: gnhlug-chat, gnhlug-politics, and gnhlug-tech. If gnhlug-discuss is subscribed to all three, postings to any of the lists also get posted to -discuss. All of these lists are restricted to only allow posting from subscribed addresses, to cut down on abuse. So far, so good, that *seems* to be what we want. Joe User finds GNHLUG, and decides that he wants to read all of the mail, so he takes the shortcut and subscribes only to -discuss Ben posts a message to gnhlug-tech. Joe User tries to reply to list. One of two things happens: Joe's mail client reply to gnhlug-discuss. Ben never sees Joe's reply, because Ben is only subscribed to gnhlug-tech. Joe's mail client tries to reply to gnhlug-tech. Ben never sees Joe's reply, because Joe's mail is stuck in an approval queue for unsubscribed postings. Joe has a question, which he posts to gnhlug-discuss since that is what he has subscribed to. Unfortunately for Joe, most of the GNHLUG community never sees his question as they have subscribed to the sub-lists they are interested in. Everyone loses. If we are going to break up gnhlug-discuss into smaller lists, we need to just do it, and make everyone subscribe to whatever lists they want. Trying to have it both ways with sub-lists and a combined list is just a recipe for disaster. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenPGP KeyID 0x57C3430B Holder of Past Knowledge CS, O- Profanity is the inevitable linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherfucker. Bruce Sherrod ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
mike ledoux wrote: On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 01:50:56PM -0400, Jerry Feldman wrote: basically, IMHO, the GNHLUG is low volume enough that it probably would not need to be split into 3 lists, as Maddog suggested, though it would not be difficult to create the 2 additional lists, and use the main discuss list as a target of both. Say you have three sub-lists: gnhlug-chat, gnhlug-politics, and gnhlug-tech. If gnhlug-discuss is subscribed to all three, postings to any of the lists also get posted to -discuss. All of these lists are restricted to only allow posting from subscribed addresses, to cut down on abuse. So far, so good, that *seems* to be what we want. ... Of course, none of this would be a problem if we were using newsgroups (ala Usenet). Most of the news readers support kill lists (for authors, subjects, ...) which makes it easy to ignore certain threads and/or authors. And there's good support for news/mail gateways. Another possibility is to use Mailman topics. Of course, if either of these avenues are chosen, then there remains the (for some reason) insurmountable task of implementing them. --Bruce ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]
On 3/27/07, Bruce Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, none of this would be a problem if we were using newsgroups None of this is a problem if you're using mail software which supports thread killing, either. Which I do. I'm not sure where that fits into the argument, but I'm sure it does somewhere... -- B ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Dividing The List Considered Harmful [Was: Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]]
On Tue, Mar 27, 2007 at 12:45:49PM -0400, mike ledoux wrote: I have been through this a few times in the past, with different groups, where the decision was eventually made to fragment the list into multiple lists with more focused charters. I have, to date, never seen it work well. With one exception, all of the mailing lists I have seen fragmented this way have either reverted back to a single main list (sometimes with a separate, often moderated list for announcments, like we have), or gone away entirely. That one exception had strongly focused charters, very clear lines on what topics were appropriate on which lists, and a large team of volunteer list-cops (over 50 when I was in charge of managing them) to keep things on track and ban chronic offenders. Possibly true for dividing a list into specialty lists. OTOH for just the narrowly focused goal of trying to contain chitchat, I've seen it it work well, and I'm on lists now where it works well. it being: there's a main list (or perhaps one or more lists) for on-topic stuff, and an off-topic list for chitchat and jabber. But I think I'll agree with you that it only works well if it's made to work. One component is that it's reasonably easy to tell what's off-topic for a non-chat list (like, say, how do I address this issue at the shell prompt?). And really, a lot of off-topic stuff is easy to spot, even when being on-topic is hard to specify. Another component is having the list-mom make the call, step in and say take it to off-topic or else -- it might take a short while to train everyone, but smart people can deal with it. mailman [topics] are a substitute; I don't care for that, but really, it's just a different way to separate traffic, and at least with topics you don't get some of the overlap issues that you get with separate lists. If you've already got separate specialized lists, topics are less useful. Subscribing one list to another is, IMHO, not a good idea. Oh, and back to a previous subject... simply changing the subject text isn't really enough. When a threat mutates, you really want a new one, which means getting rid of the References links. Threading mail readers don't care about the subject text, they link threads together by those references. Not everyone cares, but for those who do, it makes a huge difference whether you simply change the subject or start a new thread. mm (my opinionated.info) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Meta-topic/list split debate (was: Subject Lines on the Mailing list)
While I happen to rather agree with mike ledoux's choice of subject line, I cannot bring myself to deliberately use a biased subject line. Sorry. :) On 3/27/07, Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And perhaps we should be more forceful in helping people to use digests ... I'm not a big fan of digests. They make replies a lot harder, and they make it difficult to have software ignore a given thread. Irony. (MIME digests are useful as a batch delivery mechanism, but that's mostly transparent in usage, so I'm assuming that's not what you're after, here.) [long list of which list rulings cut] Well, maddog, that's fine and good, but unless you're volunteering to personally vet and sort each and every message that gets posted, it doesn't really help us much. :-) If we're going to have topic rules for any number of lists, they need to be clearly spelled out, so that people can follow them. And I'm sorry, but What would maddog do? is not a topic rule (although it would make a pretty cool T-shirt slogan). :) Copyright issues. Taxes. Free speech issues. Taxes. Effectiveness of voting. Taxes. Patents. Tollbooths. And Global warming and child pornography, but I have not seen long discussions of them on the list either. Actually, everything I listed there *has* been discussed on the gnhlug-discuss, and at length. I can Google up some links to archives if you like. :) Meanwhile, a brief message or two on an upcoming TV special may be well-appreciated by the readership of the -tech list, no? gnhlug-announce Whoa! Error, error! :) While we don't have any topic rules for gnhlug-discuss, we *do* have one for gnhlug-announce. That list is for announcements relating to GNHLUG. Meetings, events, and so on. Not just random things people find interesting. (That's called a blog. Or gnhlug-discuss. ;-) ) What about the occasional astronomy-related message? Does that go to -tech (it's not Linux) or -social (but still technical)? astronomy in general? Aren't there mailing lists that deal with that? Aren't you subscribed to them? I was referring to the fact that, on occasion, someone floats a thread about some current astronomy event, like a meteor shower. Sometimes it goes to a handful of messages on the finer points of amateur astronomy. Is that technical because it's technical, or social because it's not Linux? People who ignore nudges can be nudged harder. With a 2x4, as needed. If it were only two it would be easier, but if there are two arguing and ten who are mildly interested, it becomes harder. Absolutely. I just think that splitting the lists doesn't make that aspect any easier. You still have to establish topic rules, enforce them, deal with people who break them, and so on. And often the 2x4 leaves splinters, even if not intentional. We're also concerned about a low signal-to-noise ratio. We can't have our cake and eat it, too. We have to make a management decision. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Dividing The List Considered Harmful [Was: Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]]
If anybody is tallying votes, my vote is: 1: don't split the mailing list. 2: encourage members of this list to stay on topic in the way that we always have. 3: treat members like adults 4: expect members to be adults If you have been on this list for any amount of time and you have a brain, you will know that the group generally frowns upon posts that basically extol some political viewpoint. We as a group aren't too bad at telling other members of this list to not post to the list with such political topics. The current brouhaha came into existence when one of our members did something new -- he posted regarding an activity that has dubious legality. So, let's just solve this problem by all agreeing that such topics are verboten. Personally, I think that splitting the list would be a lot of work and a big hassle. I also think that it would be a disaster, because I can envision a lot of traffic on each split list that read please post your fine message to the other list. I think that the S/N ratio of this list is OK, which is why I continue to participate. Regards, --kevin -- GnuPG ID: B280F24E Never could stand that dog. alumni.unh.edu!kdc -- Tom Waits ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Dividing The List Considered Harmful [Was: Re: Subject Lines on the Mailing list: [WAS: Looking for a NH mail list talking about Linux]]
During and immediately after the Sept 11 attacks, the US Air Traffic Control system was faced with an unprecedented challenge: Respond to a concerted effort to use passenger airliners as flying bombs, while at the same time grounding all civilian air traffic. This had never been done before. There were no procedures for it. Most everything had to be made up on the spot. Afterwards, the FAA conducted a review. They considered creating formal procedures for such an event in the future. They decided not to. They concluded any such situation would be too complicated for formal rules, and that they were better off trusting their people to make the right decisions. -- DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed in the above are the personal opinions of the author, and do not necessarily represent the views or policy of GNHLUG, the author's employer, or any other person or organization. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
History of putting square brackets around subject of forwarded email
I'm just curious, does anyone know why square brackets are put around the subject of forwarded email? This is done by the Netscape/Mozilla based email clients. Not sure if others do it also. Thanks, Larry ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
History of putting square brackets around subject of forwarded email (fwd)
In the early days of email, only the Emperors had the resources to be able to afford manual labor needed to remove the husks from rice to make it white, and to pay for the brackets for forwarded email. After some time, a process was developed to cheaply remove the husks from the rice and to add inexpensive brackets to forwarded messages. The irony is that the most nutrition was in the husk component of the rice, but the brackets used today are just as high in nutritional value as the old expensive brackets used by the Emperors of ancient times. -- steveo at syslang dot net TMMP1 http://frambors.syslang.net/ Do you have neighbors who are not frambors? -- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:03:43 -0500 From: Larry Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: GNHLUG gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: History of putting square brackets around subject of forwarded email I'm just curious, does anyone know why square brackets are put around the subject of forwarded email? This is done by the Netscape/Mozilla based email clients. Not sure if others do it also. Thanks, Larry ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: History of putting square brackets around subject of forwarded email (fwd)
On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 13:45 -0500, Steven W. Orr wrote: In the early days of email, only the Emperors had the resources to be able to afford manual labor needed to remove the husks from rice to make it white, and to pay for the brackets for forwarded email. After some time, a process was developed to cheaply remove the husks from the rice and to add inexpensive brackets to forwarded messages. The irony is that the most nutrition was in the husk component of the rice, but the brackets used today are just as high in nutritional value as the old expensive brackets used by the Emperors of ancient times. And I (always thought (it came (from (LISP md ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: History of putting square brackets around subject of forwarded email
On 2/2/07, Larry Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm just curious, does anyone know why square brackets are put around the subject of forwarded email? This is done by the Netscape/Mozilla based email clients. Not sure if others do it also. mutt does this by default as well, I believe, though it is configurable via the forward_format configuration variable. -- Chip Marshall [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: History of putting square brackets around subject of forwarded email (fwd)
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:58:18 -0500 From: Jon 'maddog' Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] and to add inexpensive brackets to forwarded messages. The irony is that the most nutrition was in the husk component of the rice, but the brackets used today are just as high in nutritional value as the old expensive brackets used by the Emperors of ancient times. And I (always thought (it came (from (LISP (funcall (lambda (language) (and (religionp language) (not (empirep language)) (format nil %s was a religion, not an empire language))) 'LISP) = LISP was a religion, not an empire ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
(no subject)
Jason Stephenson wrote: Tom Buskey wrote: On 12/15/06, Bayard Coolidge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't got a clue as to what Solstice is, but Bill Sconce's response When the earth is furthest/nearest the sun. Winter solstice is Dec 21st. Summer is June 21st. It's actually the other way 'round. The earth is closer to the sun on the winter solstice. This is wrong too. You're almost right, but in a few thousand more years you'll be very wrong. The solstices are when the the Sun is directly overhead at some point on the Tropic of Cancer or the Tropic of Capricorn. The equinoxes are when that subsolar point crosses the equator. The Earth is closest to the sun at the perihelion, which occurs in early January. In July we we'll be the furthest away, a point called the aphelion. The Winter Solstice is the shortest day* of the year in most of the Northern Hemishpere. The Summer Solstice is the longest. Right. Both hemispheres actually. The winter solstice in the southern hemisphere is in June. BTW, we've already passed the earliest sunset. The latest sunrise won't occur until early January. Both the Earth's tilt and eccentricity are involved in that phenomenon, often referred to as the equation of time. Applied to a well aligned sundial, you can tell time to a few minutes. These are astronomical data for 2007: 2007 Penacook, Latitude 43.29 Longitude 71.60 The time of rising and setting will change one minute for each 12.6 miles traveled east or west. Time zone 5, daylight time begins on Apr 1 and ends on Oct 28 Spring: Mar 20 7:07P, Summer: Jun 21 2:12P Perihelion: Jan 3 4:21P Autumn: Sep 23 5:58A, Winter: Dec 22 1:17AAphelion: Jul 5 8:16A Caveat: I computed the above applying limited physics and a 25 year-old reference point. The U.S. Naval Observatory is the better reference, the position of the moon seems able to perturb perihelion and aphelion by a couple days (the Earth/Moon barycenter is above the surface of the Earth, so no real surprise). I suspect the planets have an observable effect too. See also: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/ http://werme.8m.net/eqoftm.html http://www.analemma.com/ http://werme.8m.net/sun.html -Ric Werme ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
[GNHLUG] [Wed Oct 18 14:39:49 EST 2006] [Heck let's have all the text in the subject line too. me too!] Re: Spam and mailing lists
___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [GNHLUG] [Wed Oct 18 14:39:49 EST 2006] [Heck let's have all the text in the subject line too. me too!] Re: Spam and mailing lists
And top post, in HTML! *mutter* -Mark On 10/18/2006 02:41 PM, Tom Buskey wrote: ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: [GNHLUG] [Wed Oct 18 14:39:49 EST 2006] [Heck let's have all the text in the subject line too. me too!] Re: Spam and mailing lists
On 10/18/06, Tom Buskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ You don't say. ;-) -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
(no subject)
i do not now what u lilke to say baut what i need is to sale my kidny for the price u will give Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: (no subject)
Wooot! I've always wanted a kidny! It'll go GREAT on my shelf next to the golf balls, and my pencil sharpener! ThomasOn 10/17/06, paul salvador [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i do not now what u lilke to say baut what i need is to sale my kidny for the price u will give Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ___gnhlug-discuss mailing listgnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
(no subject)
On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 21:39:27 -0400, Paul Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Regardless, it appears to be a moot point, as it's now being reported that there was no such ammendment to the bill. -- Several things could have happened here: 1) the Senator was waiting until the full committee to present it, 2) there was such a response that the unnamed Senator changed his mind, 3) the Senator's dog ate the only copy of the amendment, 4) any combination of the above, 5) none of the above. I think that #2 is probably the most likely answer, but we will see what the full committee holds. Pierre -- Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.fastmail.fm - One of many happy users: http://www.fastmail.fm/docs/quotes.html ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
Can we also please lose the [gnhlug-announce] clutter on Subject: lines for that channel? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, at 8:58am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can we also please lose the [gnhlug-announce] clutter on Subject: lines for that channel? Done. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Filtering on List-Id (was Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging)
On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 09:44:01AM -0400, Tom Buskey wrote: There's another way to prevent two replies. Use an invalid email address. I wonder wh you even bother with this procmail rule as you're never going to get private replies from your postings on the list. Presumably you don't mean duplicate-filtering rules, but you mean this one: :0 * (gnhlug|discuss)[EMAIL PROTECTED](gnhlug|blu) folders/Linux There are several reasons. First and foremost, it's because that's the rule I've had in place for a fairly long time, and there was no reason to change it. It still does the same thing just as effectively. Secondly, if someone sends me mail related to GNHLUG, and this can be determined by the presence of the name or of a relevant address in the headers, I want the mail filtered into the same folder as the mailing list posts. Finally, not all list management software includes all the same headers on administrative mail as on message posts. I'm not sure if mailman falls into that category, but fortunately I never really need to know. This rule does what I want, regardless. In any event, most users /don't/ use invalid addresses, and this rule (or something like it) could be very handy for them. I offered it in my previous post in case someone found it useful... -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
Well, folks, sorry to have brought up the subject, but thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I have configured Mozilla to filter incoming Gnhlug messages by the List-Id header. I'll deal with duplicate, private replies as I find them. Next step is setting ant-UBE on my home mail server. That'll happen, soon. I'm thinking of switching the OS from Red Hat 8.0 to either Slackware or FreeBSD. I'm inclined to the latter because it is what I'm using on my home workstation. Anyway, I now return you to your normal GNHLUG list discussions. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Filtering on List-Id (was Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging)
On Mon, 19 Apr 2004, at 2:03pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But anyway, the List-Id header is guaranteed to be present and the same for all messages delivered through this mailing list. So, one should filter on that, and not anything else, to identify list mail. This is a point worth taking note of. Filtering ONLY on list-id can fail. That depends on your intent. My use of the phrase delivered through this mailing list was deliberate. Mails sent privately do not deliver through this list. I regard mail sent privately as, well, private, and separate from list mail. I'm not asking that anyone agree with me, but that's the way I treat it. I also consider people who just spam everyone they can on every reply they make to be somewhat rude. Excessive use of Reply All can cause mail header cancer. :) I will also note for the record that the List-ID header for this list appears to have a small error... I think there's a '.' where the '@' should be. No, the header is correct. The List-ID is gnhlug-discuss.mail.gnhlug.org. Just dots; no at-sign. The List-ID is not the same thing as the list posting address. -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, at 8:29pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, folks, sorry to have brought up the subject ... Don't be. It's more on-topic then a lot of other discussions we've had in this forum, and it resulted in knowledge-sharing. That's the primary purpose of this group. Next step is setting ant-UBE on my home mail server. FWIW, I find the current versions of SpamAssassin to be almost trivial to install and use, even in a default configuration. I'm inclined to the latter because it is what I'm using on my home workstation. Wanna give a presentation to a local user meeting on what you like about FreeBSD? :-) -- Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do | | not represent the views or policy of any other person or organization. | | All information is provided without warranty of any kind. | ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... But anyway, the List-Id header is guaranteed to be present and the same for all messages delivered through this mailing list. So, one should filter on that, and not anything else, to identify list mail. Of course, if one posts, one may expect to get some direct replies, some of which may also be sent to the list, and some not. The direct version *will not* have the List-Id header, so identifying mail *associated with* your list activity isn't quite that simple. Still, cluttering the Subject header seems like a bad idea. Bill ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Filtering on List-Id (was Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging)
There's another way to prevent two replies. Use an invalid email address. I wonder wh you even bother with this procmail rule as you're never going to get private replies from your postings on the list. On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 09:11:09PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But anyway, the List-Id header is guaranteed to be present and the same for all messages delivered through this mailing list. So, one should filter on that, and not anything else, to identify list mail. This is a point worth taking note of. Filtering ONLY on list-id can fail. Often, a poster replies to both the list, and the original poster. In this case, the OP will normally receive two copies of the message: one from the list management software (with the expected List-Id header), and one which comes directly from the sender (which will NOT have the List-Id header). If you DON'T use procmail (or something else) to filter duplicate messages, you'll get two copies of the message. One will be properly filtered, and the other will not. If you DO use procmail to filter duplicates, you will only receive one copy of the message. You probably will first receive the message which comes directly from the sender, and thus it will not be filtered properly. This is the rule I use to filter all mail from the GNHLUG and BLU mailing lists into my Linux folder. It's not 100% perfect, but it fails (with false positives) only in extremely rare cases. :0 * (gnhlug|discuss)[EMAIL PROTECTED](gnhlug|blu) folders/Linux This matches on any header, any occurrence of the following: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...as well as a number of patters which are not official list addresses for either list, but which are very unlikely to occur anywhere else. Of course, if you're filtering only for gnhlug, you could pretty much eliminate false positives with this: * [EMAIL PROTECTED]|[EMAIL PROTECTED] I will also note for the record that the List-ID header for this list appears to have a small error... I think there's a '.' where the '@' should be. It may not be crucial, but if people expect to match on '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', it will fail. -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
In a message dated: Sun, 18 Apr 2004 10:21:32 EDT Jason Stephenson said: I have a request that I'd like to put up for discussion. I think it would be very handy if subject lines of messages sent to/from the gnhglug lists were prepended with the list name in brackets. This would facilitate filtering of messages into appropriate mail folders without having to scan all the headers looking for the right bit of information. As it is now, messages to the discuss list could contain [EMAIL PROTECTED] or gnhlug-discuss@ or not even contain those if the message was a BCC. (Why you'd BCC to a list, I don't know, but you could.) This procmail recipe has been working on gnhlug mail for me for more than a decade with very few changes: :0 * ^(From|TO|Cc):.*(gnhlug) |rcvstore +Mlists/GNHLUG Note the distinct lack of a 'Subject' line search criteria. Seems that every weekend when I plan to do this, my wife comes up with some more important to do. Wives are like that :) I've got so many projects on my 'ToDo' list it's ridiculous. That's why I'm a sysadmin, I go to work to play with things I think would be fun to do at home ;) Anyway, I think that subject line tagging would be helpful. What do others think? Personally, I hate it. It adds a minimum of 8 characters to the subject line for absolutely no gain (at least to me). Also, I often read e-mail on my cell phone, which has a non-threaded mail client. It's really tough to tell which messages you want to read when you only have 6-10 characters for the subject line. To have every message with a subject of [ GNHLUG ] or worse, Re: [ GNHL would be a royal p.i.t.a. My vote (for what that's worth) is no. Thanks for asking though :) Seeya, Paul -- Key fingerprint = 1660 FECC 5D21 D286 F853 E808 BB07 9239 53F1 28EE It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Administrivia: Subject line tagging
I have a request that I'd like to put up for discussion. I think it would be very handy if subject lines of messages sent to/from the gnhglug lists were prepended with the list name in brackets. This would facilitate filtering of messages into appropriate mail folders without having to scan all the headers looking for the right bit of information. As it is now, messages to the discuss list could contain [EMAIL PROTECTED] or gnhlug-discuss@ or not even contain those if the message was a BCC. (Why you'd BCC to a list, I don't know, but you could.) At the moment, I'm not filtering Gnhlug messages. I've also been receiving huge amounts of spam lately and haven't had the time to set up anti-spam measures on my mail server here at sigio.com. Seems that every weekend when I plan to do this, my wife comes up with some more important to do. Anyway, I think that subject line tagging would be helpful. What do others think? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
Jason Stephenson wrote: I have a request that I'd like to put up for discussion. I think it would be very handy if subject lines of messages sent to/from the gnhglug lists were prepended with the list name in brackets. This would facilitate filtering of messages into appropriate mail folders without having to scan all the headers looking for the right bit of information. As it is now, messages to the discuss list could contain [EMAIL PROTECTED] or gnhlug-discuss@ or not even contain those if the message was a BCC. (Why you'd BCC to a list, I don't know, but you could.) At the moment, I'm not filtering Gnhlug messages. I've also been receiving huge amounts of spam lately and haven't had the time to set up anti-spam measures on my mail server here at sigio.com. Seems that every weekend when I plan to do this, my wife comes up with some more important to do. Anyway, I think that subject line tagging would be helpful. What do others think? I've been filtering on To/CC/From GNHLUG for years without a problem. I've never had an email not get filtered properly. I would not like to clutter the subject line with something extraneous. (Even though, sometimes, the subject line itself is extraneous to the email anyways. ;-) -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-624-7272 *** Technical Support for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 10:21:32AM -0400, Jason Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a request that I'd like to put up for discussion. I think it would be very handy if subject lines of messages sent to/from the gnhglug lists were prepended with the list name in brackets. This would facilitate filtering of messages into appropriate mail folders without having to scan all the headers looking for the right bit of information. As it is now, messages to the discuss list could contain [EMAIL PROTECTED] or gnhlug-discuss@ or not even contain those if the message was a BCC. (Why you'd BCC to a list, I don't know, but you could.) I won't bother repating what else was said, but just mention that I agree with it. What I thought to add, though, is that for more exact filtering of mail messages sent to this list, use the List-Id header: List-Id: GNHLUG general discussion list gnhlug-discuss.mail.gnhlug.org -- Bob Bell ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
Bob Bell wrote: I won't bother repating what else was said, but just mention that I agree with it. What I thought to add, though, is that for more exact filtering of mail messages sent to this list, use the List-Id header: List-Id: GNHLUG general discussion list gnhlug-discuss.mail.gnhlug.org Doh. What a great idea! Thanks. Much simpler. I've switched my rules to use it. -- Dan Jenkins ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Rastech Inc., Bedford, NH, USA --- 1-603-624-7272 *** Technical Support for over a Quarter Century ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
The ONLY thing that should be on the Subject: line of any email msg is information relevant to the subject(s) of that message. Anything else is noise. There is more than enough info in the headers (particularly the lines that are there sepcificially for the purpose) to identify GNHLUG msgs as being such, so I object to the proposed cluttering of the Subject: lines. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging
Here's my .procmailrc entry for the list # GNHLUG List :0P * ^List-Id: GNHLUG mail/Linux\ List Works just fine On Apr 18, 2004, at 10:21 AM, Jason Stephenson wrote: I have a request that I'd like to put up for discussion. I think it would be very handy if subject lines of messages sent to/from the gnhglug lists were prepended with the list name in brackets. This would facilitate filtering of messages into appropriate mail folders without having to scan all the headers looking for the right bit of information. As it is now, messages to the discuss list could contain [EMAIL PROTECTED] or gnhlug-discuss@ or not even contain those if the message was a BCC. (Why you'd BCC to a list, I don't know, but you could.) At the moment, I'm not filtering Gnhlug messages. I've also been receiving huge amounts of spam lately and haven't had the time to set up anti-spam measures on my mail server here at sigio.com. Seems that every weekend when I plan to do this, my wife comes up with some more important to do. Anyway, I think that subject line tagging would be helpful. What do others think? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Filtering on List-Id (was Re: Administrivia: Subject line tagging)
On Sun, Apr 18, 2004 at 09:11:09PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But anyway, the List-Id header is guaranteed to be present and the same for all messages delivered through this mailing list. So, one should filter on that, and not anything else, to identify list mail. This is a point worth taking note of. Filtering ONLY on list-id can fail. Often, a poster replies to both the list, and the original poster. In this case, the OP will normally receive two copies of the message: one from the list management software (with the expected List-Id header), and one which comes directly from the sender (which will NOT have the List-Id header). If you DON'T use procmail (or something else) to filter duplicate messages, you'll get two copies of the message. One will be properly filtered, and the other will not. If you DO use procmail to filter duplicates, you will only receive one copy of the message. You probably will first receive the message which comes directly from the sender, and thus it will not be filtered properly. This is the rule I use to filter all mail from the GNHLUG and BLU mailing lists into my Linux folder. It's not 100% perfect, but it fails (with false positives) only in extremely rare cases. :0 * (gnhlug|discuss)[EMAIL PROTECTED](gnhlug|blu) folders/Linux This matches on any header, any occurrence of the following: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...as well as a number of patters which are not official list addresses for either list, but which are very unlikely to occur anywhere else. Of course, if you're filtering only for gnhlug, you could pretty much eliminate false positives with this: * [EMAIL PROTECTED]|[EMAIL PROTECTED] I will also note for the record that the List-ID header for this list appears to have a small error... I think there's a '.' where the '@' should be. It may not be crucial, but if people expect to match on '[EMAIL PROTECTED]', it will fail. -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thank the spammers. pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: (no subject)
Off the top of my head, a couple of thoughts: On Mar 16, 2004, at 2:02 PM, Ted Roche wrote: - mySQL - fast with ISAM, transactional, no stored procedures Note that some features (foreign key constraints, tx?) are only available if you use InnoDB/Berkeley table format (I forget, sorry), in which case you can lose other conveniences like full-text searching and the speed of MyISAM. Overall a very user-friendly database, though, and practically wedded to PHP, if that's your application delivery framework. - PostgreSQL After using only MySQL for a year, I ended up liking this database better than MySQL simply because it offered some extra features that MySQL didn't (although MySQL will probably offer them within a year or two), but the community is a little smaller, and last I checked (last summer) their site/documentation was unusably slow. You can find mirrors hosted at other companies/institutions, though. The mailing list interface is also very complicated, unlike a lot of other open source mailing lists (such as the Apache lists or this one), so if you like to sub a couple postgres mailing lists, you're in for a treat. Another plus about Postgres is that it's a true OSS project. I don't mean to slam MySQL, but there's been an awful lot of questionable buzz about MySQL's licensing changes lately (such as client libraries are GPL'd unless you want to pay for a non-GPL version). I don't -think- it'd be a problem if you're using PHP for application delivery (because MySQL makes a lot of concessions to PHP [including a rumor that their stored procedure language scheduled for release 5.0 will use PHP syntax]), but the company is finally leveraging its investment in developing an open source database. So, on the one hand, MySQL has looming licensing concerns but also the benefit of both open-source development and company support, so it might be attractive to a PHB. Whereas Postgres is wholly open source, client libraries are open source but not GPL, but there's no company standing behind the project either AFAIK. (Though there are companies that will sell support for it.) Postgres's open source JDBC driver is excellent, IME. - Firebird - Adabase - others? I'm hoping to provide cross-platform access: Windows via ODBC, Mac OS X and Linux via libraries or JDBC. There's another open source database called HSQLDB (formerly HyperSonic SQL). I have no idea how well it performs under load, but its advantages are that it's very lightweight, and b/c it's written in Java you can just run it after unpacking the zip (no installation needed). And of course, runs identically on any platform with a reasonable JVM. It's widely-used as a default database in open source J2EE frameworks (I think it is the default back-end for JBoss CMP), so there's a lot of connectivity if you're using J2EE, but it's not one of the big playas you hear about in OSS database conversations, so maybe there's a good reason for that. Erik -- Erik Price http://erikprice.com/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: (no subject)
Thanks, Eric. That's pretty much what I've gathered so far. I've used MySQL on a few test projects in-house and it is easy to use, well-documented and has a pretty rich 3rd party community. However, when I started looking at it, it looked like it was free to play around in, free to develop and $375 to deploy. Conventional wisdom was that once a developer owned a license, he/she could deploy many solutions. Now, the MySQL web site seems to be tightening up on the definition, requiring a commercial license *per CPU* at the still-reasonable price of $495. And if the client wants to deploy it on a 4-CPU box, well, we're starting to talk real money. I'm not opposed to people making money from their software (that's what I do), but I want some certainty in the licensing and predictable future costs, as well. Besides, it's the M in LAMP. Who wants to deliver a LAPP solution? (okay, you guys in the peanut gallery, quiet down!) PostgreSQL looks promising. Guess I'll focus some RD there... Thanks again! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Erik Price Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (no subject) Off the top of my head, a couple of thoughts: On Mar 16, 2004, at 2:02 PM, Ted Roche wrote: - mySQL - fast with ISAM, transactional, no stored procedures Note that some features (foreign key constraints, tx?) are only available if you use InnoDB/Berkeley table format (I forget, sorry), in which case you can lose other conveniences like full-text searching and the speed of MyISAM. Overall a very user-friendly database, though, and practically wedded to PHP, if that's your application delivery framework. - PostgreSQL After using only MySQL for a year, I ended up liking this database better than MySQL simply because it offered some extra features that MySQL didn't (although MySQL will probably offer them within a year or two), but the community is a little smaller, and last I checked (last summer) their site/documentation was unusably slow. You can find mirrors hosted at other companies/institutions, though. The mailing list interface is also very complicated, unlike a lot of other open source mailing lists (such as the Apache lists or this one), so if you like to sub a couple postgres mailing lists, you're in for a treat. Another plus about Postgres is that it's a true OSS project. I don't mean to slam MySQL, but there's been an awful lot of questionable buzz about MySQL's licensing changes lately (such as client libraries are GPL'd unless you want to pay for a non-GPL version). I don't -think- it'd be a problem if you're using PHP for application delivery (because MySQL makes a lot of concessions to PHP [including a rumor that their stored procedure language scheduled for release 5.0 will use PHP syntax]), but the company is finally leveraging its investment in developing an open source database. So, on the one hand, MySQL has looming licensing concerns but also the benefit of both open-source development and company support, so it might be attractive to a PHB. Whereas Postgres is wholly open source, client libraries are open source but not GPL, but there's no company standing behind the project either AFAIK. (Though there are companies that will sell support for it.) Postgres's open source JDBC driver is excellent, IME. - Firebird - Adabase - others? I'm hoping to provide cross-platform access: Windows via ODBC, Mac OS X and Linux via libraries or JDBC. There's another open source database called HSQLDB (formerly HyperSonic SQL). I have no idea how well it performs under load, but its advantages are that it's very lightweight, and b/c it's written in Java you can just run it after unpacking the zip (no installation needed). And of course, runs identically on any platform with a reasonable JVM. It's widely-used as a default database in open source J2EE frameworks (I think it is the default back-end for JBoss CMP), so there's a lot of connectivity if you're using J2EE, but it's not one of the big playas you hear about in OSS database conversations, so maybe there's a good reason for that. Erik -- Erik Price http://erikprice.com/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: (no subject)
Another plus about Postgres is that it's a true OSS project. I don't mean to slam MySQL, but there's been an awful lot of questionable buzz about MySQL's licensing changes lately (such as client libraries are GPL'd unless you want to pay for a non-GPL version). I don't -think- it'd be a problem if you're using PHP for application delivery (because MySQL makes a lot of concessions to PHP [including a rumor that their stored procedure language scheduled for release 5.0 will use PHP syntax]), but the company is finally leveraging its investment in developing an open source database. So, on the one hand, MySQL has looming licensing concerns but also the benefit of both open-source development and company support, so it might be attractive to a PHB. Whereas Postgres is wholly open source, client libraries are open source but not GPL, but there's no company standing behind the project either AFAIK. (Though there are companies that will sell support for it.) Not to start a flame war here but MySQL is certainly not doing anything questionable here. It is licensed under the GPL. So is Linux. So are a lot of other things. Now, in addition to the GPL license they have a license that allows you to do proprietary development. Sure the muddle the waters a little by using words like commercial development license... but read the terms..It is very clear that this is simple a dual license for a GPL version and a proprietary version. Either one could be used for commercial development. Either one could be used to make a database for aunt tilly. But, if you are willing to have your application be licensed under the terms of the GPL you do not need to buy a license. (of course IANAL) Note that the GPL does NOT require you to make your source code available for everyone. It does require you to provide your source code to everyone you provide your application to AND it means that you can not place restrictions on who they give it to. If your product is good and your support is good, you can still make money. Plenty of companies do. Not sure how developers (and I am not saying you are doing this) can bash people like microsoft for being closed source, want to make use of someone elses open source work, and then not want to allow their work to be open source. For a specific example, we use a compiler at work where the cost for the cross compiler is about $25k for 5 supported seats (and annual maintenance after that...not sure how much).. It is a GPL compiler but we are happy (ok...not happy..willing) to pay for it because the vendor continues to provide value by providing excellent support and continuous product improvements. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
(no subject)
I would welcome experiences and opinions (like I have to ask!) on the various database backends available. I've had 15+ years of Windows experience with xBase DBFs and a fair number with SQL Server and Oracle and a little with Informix. I'm looking into some business applications with Free/Open Source databases, and would like to hear positives and negative experiences, killer features or showstoppers with: - mySQL - fast with ISAM, transactional, no stored procedures - PostgreSQL - Firebird - Adabase - others? I'm hoping to provide cross-platform access: Windows via ODBC, Mac OS X and Linux via libraries or JDBC. What's the state of the art, level of support in the communities, availability of third-party tools, etc.? Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: (no subject)
Ted Roche writes: I would welcome experiences and opinions (like I have to ask!) on the various database backends available. If all you need to store are key/value pairs and you don't need SQL or network access, Berkeley DB is very nice/fast/reliable/portable. Regards, --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
(no subject)
___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
I wrote: prettyMuchEverybody wrote: tail -f logfile Sheesh. I hereby certify us all as Linux Professionals. Erik wrote: Fine by me. It makes me look less stupid for not knowing. ;) That would at least make me a Linux User, as opposed to a Linux Luser. Since I'm not sure how you took that, let me say that no ill-will should be read into my msg because it certainly wasn't written with any, and I didn't mean to imply that you're a Luser. I was just amused at how many of us piled on to answer that little query... . ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Subject: RE: log-reader
-Original Message- From: Michael O'Donnell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Subject: RE: log-reader I wrote: prettyMuchEverybody wrote: tail -f logfile Sheesh. I hereby certify us all as Linux Professionals. Erik wrote: Fine by me. It makes me look less stupid for not knowing. ;) That would at least make me a Linux User, as opposed to a Linux Luser. Since I'm not sure how you took that, let me say that no ill-will should be read into my msg because it certainly wasn't written with any, and I didn't mean to imply that you're a Luser. I was just amused at how many of us piled on to answer that little query... No, none was taken! I assure you. Hence the smiley, which was consciously placed. No implication was assumed, either, it was just self-beratement. Erik ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
FYI, another way to monitor changing events is via the watch command, though it's used in slightly different circumstances than the OP asked about; it's prepared to repeatedly execute some command and keep the screen updated with the results. Example: watch ifconfig ...will show the changing Tx/Rx counts associated w/your Enets. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
As an alternate solution, if the original poster is an Emacs user, he could have used live-find-file. --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
I was amused by this whole discussion, since the trick of using 'tail -f filename' is fairly universal amongst the various UNIX implementations. I used it for years on Tru64 UNIX and its antecedants while monitoring my testing (I did TruCluster software QC for several years before my retirement). It is a very, simple, straightforward way to do it. I submit that firing up an entire editor (e.g. emacs, as suggested by Kevin Clark) is an unworthy consumption of valuable system resources, however fun it might be. Be that as it may, it then becomes an interesting problem of what to do about the information as it rolls in. In my case, I do a 'tail -f /var/log/messages' as part of my ppp startup, and I can monitor real time any attempts to hit my system. But, realistically, that particular window is buried below (er, behind) my Netscape Navigator browser window, my Netscape e-mail window, and a couple of others, sometimes for hours, so I frequently don't notice when someone overseas decides to telnet or ftp my dial-up node. So, I'd love to have an audible beep and/or (*gasp*) a pop-up window telling me when I'm being, er, groped over the network. Any ideas? Thanks, Bayard ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
OK great - Both Tom and Ben Boulanger nominated 'swatch', which goes to show that you can teach an old dog like me new tricks. The capability of triggering a sound event is fairly routine nowadays, both under Linux as well as under certain MS products. Back when I started with DEC in '78, I was told that a certain large, well-known customer had a bunch of PDP-11/70's for some critical functions. The PDP-11 architecture had a very nice (IMNSHO) interrupt architecture, so that various events could be properly dispatched to their handler routines. There was even one for when the interrupt stacks themselves were corrupted. (Anyone remember the yellow-zone/red-zone stuff?). Well, this customer, well-known for its technology and its geek humor, set up their systems so that a trap to the system crash vector would close a relay contact and set off an audible alarm. In their case, it was a tape recording of a human death scream. Rather unnerving for service personnel on their first service calls to this particular facility, but at least everyone knew when the system died. Thanks, Bayard ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
Bayard R. Coolidge said: system crash vector would close a relay contact and set off an audible alarm. In their case, it was a tape recording of a human death scream. Rather unnerving for service personnel on their first service calls to this particular facility, but at least everyone knew when the system died. I used the sound of breaking glass for a crash but this is much cooler. Tom goes looking for a human death scream sound -- --- Tom Buskey ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
Bayard R. Coolidge [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I submit that firing up an entire editor (e.g. emacs, as suggested by Kevin Clark) is an unworthy consumption of valuable system resources, however fun it might be. I never suggested firing up an editor to do this. I merely suggested that if the user was already an Emacs user, and they wanted to do this under Emacs, they could use live-find-file. The Emacs process that I'm typing this in has been up since the last time my computer experienced a power failure. Most Emacs users start up Emacs and leave it up for the entire session, however long that might be. So I disagree with your judgement of unworthy. --kevin -- Kevin D. Clark / Cetacean Networks / Portsmouth, N.H. (USA) cetaceannetworks.com!kclark (GnuPG ID: B280F24E) alumni.unh.edu!kdc ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
Thanks for the clarification, as I generally invoke an editor ad hoc for editing specific documents, and then dissolve it when I'm done. If you (and other emacs users) fire it up as part of your initial window invocations and leave it up during your entire working session then, yes, I can clearly see that there's no cost associated with using it to check the logs. Conversely, starting up a separate invocation of emacs just to watch the logs seemed to me to be a bit expensive. Doesn't Emacs have a client-server mode (or version) wherein one heavyweight Emacs process remains resident in memory and then a bunch of lightweight Emacs processes can connect to it? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Subject: RE: log-reader
-Original Message- From: Kevin D. Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 1:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Subject: RE: log-reader The Emacs process that I'm typing this in has been up since the last time my computer experienced a power failure. Most Emacs users start up Emacs and leave it up for the entire session, however long that might be. Lo, and it is indeed even inscribed unto the Emacs tutorial that said behavior is recommendation-worthy. That's actually the first time I really used Ctrl-z, was when learning Emacs ... I knew about the command but felt like it was bad form to suspend processes. When I saw it recommended in yon Emacs tutorial, I asked about it and found that it's not like putting a video tape on pause ... (this was years ago, I was much younger and even more naive, really) Erik ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Subject: RE: log-reader
In a message dated: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 14:22:49 EST Michael O'Donnell said: Doesn't Emacs have a client-server mode (or version) wherein one heavyweight Emacs process remains resident in memory and then a bunch of lightweight Emacs processes can connect to it? Yes, gnuserver and gnuclient. If you invoke gnuserv-start when Emacs is fired up, you can then do things like set your EDITOR/VISUAL variables to 'gnuclient' and anything that invokes your editor with send that to the gnuserv process. You can also, from the cmd line use 'gnuclient foo.txt' which does the same thing. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
