Re: Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:17:48 -0400, Ken D'Ambrosio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Costolo wrote: But why exactly would they do that? Same size, weight, etc. of a book, but needs batteries, has a screen that can break, and costs far more than a common $10 or $15 paperback. Have you seen the price of low-cost notebooks these days? The last paperback I bought (Prime Obsession) was $10.50. Far cheaper than a low-cost notebook. Imagine one with almost no CPU, a relatively small hard disk (the 20 GB Ipod disk would work fine), minimal RAM, no legacy PCMCIA/serial/parallel/VGA, and yet the ability to hold hundreds if not thousands of books? You're almost describing the handheld platform. For which there exists ebook reader software. Which, to the best of my understanding, hasn't been all that impressive sales-wise (ebooks on handhelds, that is). -Mike- -- The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. -George Bernard Shaw ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 20:48:55 -0400, Ted Roche [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a large time scale, I agree with Ben and maddog that paper will likely go the way of papyrus, Don't forget that papyrus was only replaced with the dried pulp of a different plant and some more refined processing. Aside from modernization of technique, it hasn't changed in thousands of years. And electronics, computers in particular, have changed dramatically in just the last decade. A book can be picked up and read by anyone, at any time. Try and find a working 5 1/4 disk drive. Or an old tape drive that used the audio-style casettes (a-la the TRS-80). Or a punch card reader. Or, for that matter, a laser-disk player. I'm not yet convinced that giving up low-tech solutions to low tech problems is going to completely win out. Especially in light of the relatively quick obsolescence of high tech gadgetry. Not that electronic publications won't have their place. They are already making strides into former dead tree space like software and hardware manuals. And scientific journals make electronic downloads available; some offer online-only subscriptions. But personally, I don't expect to see e-books taking market share without some revolutionary event taking place. Printed books are just too good in too many areas. but in the short run, it's much harder to predict. Master Yoda says Always in motion is the future. We live in interesting times! Absolutely! -- The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. -George Bernard Shaw ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:51:34 -0400 Michael Costolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're almost describing the handheld platform. For which there exists ebook reader software. Which, to the best of my understanding, hasn't been all that impressive sales-wise (ebooks on handhelds, that is). Yes, but in the context where the screen is about the size of a book page. Actually, what I would really like is a handheld/wearable/notebook computer where I could conveniently sit down in a couch, under the proverbial elm tree, et. al. and comfortably read like I would read a book. Currently, handhelds are too small, but are powerful enough, and notebooks are too big. One of the solutions is for glasses, such as Micro Optical's glasses (http://www.microopticalcorp.com/Products/HomePage.html) with a reasonably high resolution, 800x600 or better. But, the other device I envisioned is essentially a handheld with a larger display so that the user can view an entire page, but the device would weigh a few ounces. It is bigger than a handheld, smaller than a notebook, and could be set up as a single-purpose device. But, who knows where our technology will lead us. I have long felt that the glasses could replace the CRTs in many business situations. Take a case of a bank clerk at a desk. The clerk must look around the monitor to talk to you. With glasses rather than the monitor, the clerk could wear the display, and hold a conversation with you. -- Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 pgpvHXpWS3Eaw.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Costolo Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:12 AM snip And electronics, computers in particular, have changed dramatically in just the last decade. A book can be picked up and read by anyone, at any time. Try and find a working 5 1/4 disk drive. Or an old tape drive that used the audio-style casettes (a-la the TRS-80). Or a punch card reader. Or, for that matter, a laser-disk player. Hey! I have a Laser Disk player. And until they release the original version of the first Star Wars trilogy on DVD (never) I'm going to keep it in working order as long as I can. :-) As for ebooks, I think they have their place. One of my favorite presents to receive is a nice hard-back book and my wife takes time to track them down for me when she can. I love to see them on my shelf and I greatly enjoy the feel of sitting down to read one. However, I also recently got a Palm T3 with a nice chunk of memory. After loading all the important software ( Tetris, Asteroids, etc ) I sought out a number of ebooks. I have often had meetings, conference calls, waits at a service shop, etc where I can pull up the tiny handheld and reread Hitchhiker's Guide, LoTR, Foundation, etc. I don't have to worry about taking one of my large books around, loosing it, damaging it, etc. It's ready for a quick break. I also have Thinking in Java and a number of other reference works on it which have their place as well. It (nor any other electronic media) will ever replace my love of a real book, but for the niche it does fill I'm thankful. To keep slightly on-topic, I do wish it was a Linux-based hand-held...but at least it's not micro-Windoze!! ;-) -Lawrence ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:06:26 -0400 Michael Costolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snips How about the so-called tablet pc: http://h18000.www1.hp.com/products/tabletpc/ I'm not sure if this tablet pc thing fits the bill. To get the weight down, you'll probably have to wait until the flexible screen display is perfected. Glass is too heavy. The tablet pc would fit the bill if: 1. It reduced its cost significantly 2. Reduced its weight. What I an envisioning is more of an appliance than a general purpose computer. -- Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 pgpoCPuJclQZD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, Ted Roche wrote: snip We live in interesting times! Isn't that a Chinese curse? May you live in interesting times. -- TARogue (Linux user number 234357) We understand death for the first time when he puts his hand upon one whom we love. -Madame De Stael, writer (1766-1817) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Mon, 2004-08-30 at 12:58, Jerry Feldman wrote: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:39:44 -0400 Jon maddog Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will have to agree with Ben. Despite the fact that I too love the feeling of pages turning between my hands, and I love taking that book out under the tree, or into the hammock in the back yard, there are economies that will force printed books out of existence. Great post. I too prefer books. I am uncomfortable reading large amounts of online text. Maybe if I had one of Thad Starner's wearables with high resolution glasses, I could join Maddog under the tree with a computer. Years ago I learned how to use an abacus. I still have it somewhere. It's much closer to Linux than Windows since you never get a blue screen of death with it :-) I fondly recall my slide rule I used to carry around with me everywhere when I was in 6th grade on. Now, almost no one would want to use a slide rule for anything. Having said that, I will also say this. I have spent a good portion of my career designing user interfaces. The user interface of a thing IS the experience of a thing. Someone had mentioned that the reed organ is not built anymore, but has been supplanted by the canned samples in synthesisers. But if you think of it, the *user interface* of the two are quite similar. But, despite the advent of the Casio Keyboards of the world, we still have real pianos. There is something about the sound of a grand piano, for instance, that will never be quite captured electronically. Plus pianos are deeply embedded in our culture, and that cultural meme replicates itself nicely every time there is a gathering around a good pianist. You can't beat that. So there is more to a thing than just the user interface, even though the UI plays an important role. Now, let's talk about the user interface aspects of dead-tree books vs. e-books. It's the feel, its the smell. It's the sound the turning of a page makes. The crispness of the letters and pictures, if any. The weight, dead-tree books are very durable, too. They can go everywhere you do, get chewed by the dog, get kicked by the kid, and they will still be usable. The e-book, on the other hand, does not stand on its own. It requires a computer to render it readable, whether it's a laptop, palmtop, or desktop. Current computer displays don't do well in direct sunlight, palmtops are simply too small to read comfortably, laptops can be dropped or get wet or stolen, and they all require power. There is something highly annoying about worrying when the power will run out on the laptop or palmtop, which distracts from the experience. And don't let your dog chew on it or the kid kick it -- you've got those extra concerns as well. But you can do text searches and what not. But then a book with a half-decent index is good too. And the advantage to the index is that you can browse it in a way you can't with an electronic lookup. Both have their places. To save cost on dead-tree books, we don't need to use trees at all, but hemp. And that can happen as soon as a certain government gets its head out of its ass. And even with technical manuals and reference books, when grokking them I prefer the dead-tree version. I can grok them anywhere, especially places I would not want to take my laptop. But for regular reference uses, I prefer the on-line manuals with the search capabilities. And so I find myself using both. Same with GUI vs. CLI. I use both, exploiting the advantages of each. The command-line console will never go away, no matter how fancy GUI gets. And I absolutely adore Emacs which works nicely in either mode. So before someone can say that X is going away because Y is so much better, one has to look deeply at the UI aspects of both X and Y. And the UI experience will determine if Y is truly that much better than X. Usually X and Y becomes complimentary rather than competitive. -- Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- place [hey] in your subject. There are inflows and outflows -- and you're just a little node. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:21:55 -0400 Michael Costolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't ever see myself curling up in bed with my laptop. And the paperless office has yet to be realized. Methinks if there is a way to make a buck with dead tree versions, someone will be doing it. I think there are two kinds of thing that might happen. One might be an electronic book, that has the approximate dimensions and weight of a book (or a page), and you read it like a book. While I think we have the technology to do this today, it will require someone to bring the idea to the marketplace. -- Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 pgpJay5wNvr7r.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:54:19 -0400, Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:21:55 -0400 Michael Costolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't ever see myself curling up in bed with my laptop. And the paperless office has yet to be realized. Methinks if there is a way to make a buck with dead tree versions, someone will be doing it. I think there are two kinds of thing that might happen. One might be an electronic book, that has the approximate dimensions and weight of a book (or a page), and you read it like a book. While I think we have the technology to do this today, it will require someone to bring the idea to the marketplace. But why exactly would they do that? Same size, weight, etc. of a book, but needs batteries, has a screen that can break, and costs far more than a common $10 or $15 paperback. And if Microsoft has anything to do with it, it will come with a thumb scanner to verify that the user has authorization to be reading it. I want to be there when they try to convince the Vulture Capitalists it is worth the investment. -- The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. -George Bernard Shaw ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
Michael Costolo wrote: But why exactly would they do that? Same size, weight, etc. of a book, but needs batteries, has a screen that can break, and costs far more than a common $10 or $15 paperback. Have you seen the price of low-cost notebooks these days? Imagine one with almost no CPU, a relatively small hard disk (the 20 GB Ipod disk would work fine), minimal RAM, no legacy PCMCIA/serial/parallel/VGA, and yet the ability to hold hundreds if not thousands of books? Yeah, I think -I'd- be willing to pay for that; after all, I spent $27 of Harry Potter's latest installment, and there'll seven of those when they're done, not to mention the untold dollars I've spent on Tolkien, the OED, etc. If the only costs I were paying were some marketing, royalties and trivial distribution fees, I HAVE to imagine that lifetime savings (for me, at least) would be in the thousands. $.02, -Ken ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:17:48 -0400, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote: Michael Costolo wrote: If the only costs I were paying were some marketing, royalties and trivial distribution fees, I HAVE to imagine that lifetime savings (for me, at least) would be in the thousands. Yet if there was a 'pay-per-view' model the savings would be much less if any. -- Jeff Macdonald Ayer, MA ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
The savings aren't that easy to capture. Witness Safari and other publisher's efforts at ebook publishing. There's still author's royalties, maybe a buck a book or so, and the labor expense of technical editing, copy editing and layout. Then, there's marketing, advertising and promotion. Web site management may actually not be that much smaller a cost than printing press management. The publisher has to stay in business, too, so there's overhead and finally, if everyone's lucky, a little profit. So, you save on the costs of paper pulp, ink and shipping, and lose on the costs of online sales management. For large book runs, like Stephen King's latest or Harry Potter, the delta may be enough to see some price reductions for you. On smaller runs of technical books, it's a tough call. The local retail outlet takes the biggest hit, but there really isn't any middleman getting cut out unless you self-publish, which is a whole n'other kettle of dead fish. O'Reilly's got an intriguing idea with Safari that's closer to a lease plan for a ebook. Looks promising, although I don't know if it's actually profitable. And there's the risk, like iTunes, that if the publisher's gone, your access may disappear with them. In a large time scale, I agree with Ben and maddog that paper will likely go the way of papyrus, but in the short run, it's much harder to predict. Master Yoda says Always in motion is the future. We live in interesting times! Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com On Aug 30, 2004, at 5:17 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote: Michael Costolo wrote: But why exactly would they do that? Same size, weight, etc. of a book, but needs batteries, has a screen that can break, and costs far more than a common $10 or $15 paperback. Have you seen the price of low-cost notebooks these days? Imagine one with almost no CPU, a relatively small hard disk (the 20 GB Ipod disk would work fine), minimal RAM, no legacy PCMCIA/serial/parallel/VGA, and yet the ability to hold hundreds if not thousands of books? Yeah, I think -I'd- be willing to pay for that; after all, I spent $27 of Harry Potter's latest installment, and there'll seven of those when they're done, not to mention the untold dollars I've spent on Tolkien, the OED, etc. If the only costs I were paying were some marketing, royalties and trivial distribution fees, I HAVE to imagine that lifetime savings (for me, at least) would be in the thousands. $.02, -Ken ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:38:09 -0400 Kenneth E. Lussier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 10:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Incidentally, I routinely check SoftPro's website when browsing online as an alternative to the Amazon/Borders megamerchants. It's good to support the local service-oriented merchants as much as possible so I'd rather use them if the price penalty is not too great. Their shipping policy and performance make that an easy pill to swallow for me. ymmv. Yes. I've used Borders for several years; it's worth the trip down to a brick-and-mortar store to actually leaf through the latest candidate for addition to my library. Other local bookstores are equally good. I'd never have thought to buy O'Reilly's Wireless Hacks except for finding it on the store shelf one day and actually seeing what's in it. More importantly, I can call Borders and ask for a new book to be brought into the store. (Current candidate: Mark Pilgrim's Dive Into Python!) When it comes in I go visit, get a capuccino, and see whether I like the book. If not I'm under no obligation to buy. They're really good that way - better than any return policy. (Although their return policy is fine too - take the book back, get your money back.) I dunno whether online is cheaper or more expensive, shipping etc. considered. But whatever cost differential there may be is simply in another universe from finding out which books should and should not get space on my shelves. And there is indeed the small pleasure of supporting a local merchant who heats and air-conditions a comfortable building, and whose service I perceive as friendly and good to me. (And which serves capuccino...) -Bill ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Bookstores [Was: Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]]
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:10:32 -0400 Bill Sconce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used Borders for several years; it's worth the trip down to a brick-and-mortar store to actually leaf through the latest candidate for addition to my library. Other local bookstores are equally good. I'd never have thought to buy O'Reilly's Wireless Hacks except for finding it on the store shelf one day and actually seeing what's in it. Sometimes it might be worth a trip to the Boston area to visit either Softpro in Waltham or Quantum in Cambridge. -- Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Boston Linux and Unix user group http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9 PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9 pgpOUKR44qQmF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
On Wednesday, Aug 25th 2004 at 22:51 -0400, quoth Jon maddog Hall: =and the I will browse your books but buy online syndrome. The store is =not as large as it used to be. They do not have the coffee area that they =had, but the rent is $10,000. per month cheaper. As the manager said, =you have to sell a lot of books to cover that $10K. = =I read an article by Tim O'Reilly on SoftPRO's web site that talked =about going to a bookstore for use as a library, then buying =online.he (of course) condemned it. I feel much the same way.so =when I thought about Asterisk some more, instead of buying it from =Amazon I called up SoftPRO and had them mail me the book. = =If I see it online, read the review online, then I buy it online.but =if I see it in the store (especially a specialty store like SoftPRO), then =I buy it there. I try to buy locally whenever possible, but there has to be some sort of accounting for competition. Buying online generally has the added cost of shipping and you lose the ability to browse hands on. But Amazon (and others) provide that whole huge machine for getting reader feedback. Buying books for list locally vs. buying at 45% off from bookpool.com turns out to be less of a hard decision when you spend $600-$1000/year. There are a few times when it would have been nice to walk into Softpro here in Marlboro and check something out, but now that they're gone it's less trouble to click something than it is to drive to Waltham or Burlington etc., figure out traffic, parking, etc. I really wish that SoftPro would have excersized a bit more entrepeneurial spirit and thought to augment their business by also running an online operation. If they had done that they might still be in their lost locations. -- Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have .0. happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ ..0 Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all- 000 individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? steveo at syslang.net ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
Jon maddog Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Also off-topic, but how is SoftPro doing? Since they've moved I've been there maybe once. [...snip...] I read an article by Tim O'Reilly on SoftPRO's web site that talked about going to a bookstore for use as a library, then buying online.he (of course) condemned it. I feel much the same way.so when I thought about Asterisk some more, instead of buying it from Amazon I called up SoftPRO and had them mail me the book. If I see it online, read the review online, then I buy it online.but if I see it in the store (especially a specialty store like SoftPRO), then I buy it there. Tip for NH residents especially, Softpro has (or used to have) fairly good policy on shipping costs. It used to work out that it would be cheaper for me to call and have my order shipped if it was over a hundred bucks (easy hurdle, alas!) because it saved me the MA sales tax when it was shipped to NH. The actual hurdle might've been less, but that was the easily remembered value I used for the decision to defer instant gratification when I made selections browsing. Incidentally, I routinely check SoftPro's website when browsing online as an alternative to the Amazon/Borders megamerchants. It's good to support the local service-oriented merchants as much as possible so I'd rather use them if the price penalty is not too great. Their shipping policy and performance make that an easy pill to swallow for me. ymmv. -Bruce McCulley ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
FOSS POS apps - Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
Interesting. Would this possibly be a worthwhile project? I mean the FOSS development of a good POS package, not upgrading SoftPro? Sorry, guess I've been doing product development too long, my first instinct is to generalize the problem and invent a solution for the entire class. Is there a need for that here, or does a sufficient foundation (FOSS packages or apps) exist with the unmet requirement being just to adapt it to the specific user's needs? Does anyone know of any existing FOSS apps that would answer this sort of need? Or does this remain to be developed? -Bruce McCulley Mark Komarinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...snip...] Maddog's presentation last month and his mention of SoftPro removed some cobwebs in my head. When I was last at the SoftPro in Waltham (last fall maybe?) I was talking to the manager and saw they're still using a DOS-based POS and inventory system. He said he'd love to get off it, but there aren't any FOSS apps out there to manage everything for them. If some enterprising individual knows of an app to help them out and can do it, I'm sure they'll want to talk to you. -Mark signature.asc (1k bytes) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: FOSS POS apps - Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Would this possibly be a worthwhile project? I mean the FOSS development of a good POS package, not upgrading SoftPro? apparently someone thinks it would be worthwhile: http://www.linux-pos.org/ There seem to be 11 applications (excluding 3 just for barcode reading) md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 10:14, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Incidentally, I routinely check SoftPro's website when browsing online as an alternative to the Amazon/Borders megamerchants. It's good to support the local service-oriented merchants as much as possible so I'd rather use them if the price penalty is not too great. Their shipping policy and performance make that an easy pill to swallow for me. ymmv. I would like to comment on the above, as Bruce mentioned service-oriented. I ordered a book online from SoftPro yesterday. I got an e-mail 15 minutes later telling me that it was out of stock and the new stock wouldn't be in for two weeks, and asking if I wanted to cancel my order or wait for the new stock to arrive. I, of course, replied that I would wait. This morning, I got an e-mail from SoftPro telling me that a copy of the book that had been put on reserve had come available since the purchaser would be away for the next three weeks and couldn't pick it up. My order was shipped at noon. That is what I call service. I know better then to expect service like that from Amazon/BN. Despite the cost being marginally higher, I would prefer to spend a little more money in a place that gives good service then a little less money in an impersonal place where there is no sense of customer service. Just my $0.02, Kenny ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
On Aug 26, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Steven W. Orr wrote: I really wish that SoftPro would have excersized a bit more entrepeneurial spirit and thought to augment their business by also running an online operation. If they had done that they might still be in their lost locations Try http://store.yahoo.com/softpro/ I am down in that neighborhood once a month for a UG meeting (same night as Nashua's, alas!) and always make a point of stopping in. Frequent readers can register with the store and get a 10% discount. You can also sign up for the Buy 5 Get One Free promotion from O'Reilly and get your card stamped if you're an ORA fan like me. The computer trade book business is a really tough one, with razor-thin margins, and has weathered some tough times the past few years. I'm grateful we have a nearby bookstore with such an extensive selection and knowledgeable sales staff. Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:38:18 -0400, Mark Komarinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 01:40:47PM -0400, Jon maddog Hall wrote: When I was last at the SoftPro in Waltham (last fall maybe?) Also off-topic, but how is SoftPro doing? Since they've moved I've been there maybe once. Before that it was at least every other month. I had been shopping at their Burlington store since I was a kid (my first book was on the Zilog Z80) with a 8 year absence while I went to college and lived in Long Island. -- Jeff Macdonald Ayer, MA ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 16:54, Jeff Macdonald wrote: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:38:18 -0400, Mark Komarinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 01:40:47PM -0400, Jon maddog Hall wrote: When I was last at the SoftPro in Waltham (last fall maybe?) Also off-topic, but how is SoftPro doing? Since they've moved I've been there maybe once. Before that it was at least every other month. I had been shopping at their Burlington store since I was a kid (my first book was on the Zilog Z80) with a 8 year absence while I went to college and lived in Long Island. The one in Burlington, MA, last I checked a few months ago, is still there but a bit scaled back. I don't get down that way very much these days. If they had free WiFi and a cafe, I might find reason to frequent them more. :-) -- Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- place [hey] in your subject. There are inflows and outflows -- and you're just a little node. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Going OT [Was: Re: Replacing PBXes with Open Source]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Also off-topic, but how is SoftPro doing? Since they've moved I've been there maybe once. They used to have four stores: o Burlington, MA o Marlboro, MA o Boulder, Co o Denver Tech Center, Co They now have two stores: o Waltham, MA o Denver Tech Center, Co I think they suffer from: o Amazon o Ebay o Barnes and Noble o Borders and the I will browse your books but buy online syndrome. The store is not as large as it used to be. They do not have the coffee area that they had, but the rent is $10,000. per month cheaper. As the manager said, you have to sell a lot of books to cover that $10K. It was great, however, to have a book seller who actually knew about Linux, and as I was walking in he was giving sage advice to a newbie. You typically can't get that in Barnes and Noble or Borders. I read an article by Tim O'Reilly on SoftPRO's web site that talked about going to a bookstore for use as a library, then buying online.he (of course) condemned it. I feel much the same way.so when I thought about Asterisk some more, instead of buying it from Amazon I called up SoftPRO and had them mail me the book. If I see it online, read the review online, then I buy it online.but if I see it in the store (especially a specialty store like SoftPRO), then I buy it there. md -- Jon maddog Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association, USENIX Association (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
