Re: New team for Shavian (e...@shaw)
Ysgrifennodd Claude Paroz: Please commit at least one translation so as we can link the team to the language in D-L. Okay, http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/metacity/master/po/e...@shaw and a few others. Best wishes, Thomas -- Thomas Thurman - thomas at thurman.org.uk - http://marnanel.org What if a dragon stole your library books? http://borrowable.net ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Metacity branched for 2.28
Metacity has been branched for 2.28. The new branch is called gnome-2-28. Hacking will continue in the master branch. Best wishes, Thomas -- What if a dragon stole your library books? http://borrowable.net ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
New team for Shavian (e...@shaw)
Shavian (e...@shaw) is an alternative alphabet for the English language, less ambiguous and more efficient than the conventional alphabet. It has a small but dedicated worldwide following. ISO 639/ISO 15924: e...@shaw Name in English: Shavian Native name: іѱѝѾѯ The team translating Ubuntu into Shavian would also like to translate GNOME into Shavian, and asks to become an official translation team. All the current members of the team are capable programmers as well as being fluent in reading and writing the Shavian alphabet. Rather like en_GB, the translation can largely be done mechanically, but it needs humans to check and fix the results. A rough screenshot is at http://marnanel.org/shavian/epiphany1 . The team's current home page is http://ubuntu.shavian.org.uk . It has a mailing list at ubuntu-l10n-en-s...@lists.launchpad.net (archived at https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-l10n-en-shaw/ ) to which Bugzilla bugs can be sent. I offer myself, Thomas Thurman, tthur...@gnome.org, as a contact for the GNOME team. Thomas -- Thomas Thurman - thomas at thurman.org.uk - http://marnanel.org What if a dragon stole your library books? http://borrowable.net ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Request to create a new Language (Hausa Language)
Ysgrifennodd nui...@fossnigeria.org: My name is Nasir Usman Imam, Member BOD Hutsoft Nigeria Ltd. I will like to start a new language by name HAUSA LANGUAGE, a language widely spoken in west Africa in the translation page of the gnome localisation page. I will like to create the team and also coordinate it. I think this is very exciting. We already have a few Hausa translations, fwiw, but they're unmaintained: http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/gnome-desktop/HEAD/po/ha http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/gnome-menus/HEAD/po/ha http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/gnome-panel/HEAD/po/ha http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/gnome-session/HEAD/po/ha http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/metacity/gnome-2-26/po/ha http://l10n.gnome.org/vertimus/nautilus/HEAD/po/ha Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for Mayan languages ISO 639-3
2009/3/2 Paulino Cahun Pat leoncancer@gmail.com: Paulino Cahun Pat leoncancer@gmail.com Bugzilla account : leoncancer@gmail.com The ISO 639 code is myn. http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/English_list.php T ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Metacity branched for 2.26
I've branched Metacity for 2.26. The 2.26 branch is branches/gnome-2-26, currently numbered 2.25.*. Hacking will continue on trunk, now numbered 2.27. Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Automated translation into en_GB
Translation from the C locale into en_GB is generally done with Abigail Brady's script written for that purpose, and then hand-checked. The script is very reliable and there are rarely changes needed. However, the whole process is currently done by hand, which means it only happens when someone remembers to do it. This means that trunk is now down to 90% translated and documentation only 28%. I propose a bot which checks the .pot files on Damned Lies once a day, and for all strings *which are not already translated* it translates them using Abigail's script and then commits them to svn. Strings which are already translated are left alone. In the case of strings which need human intervention-- for example, if the script didn't know that wastebasket-bin-- they can subsequently be updated by a human translator. And then hopefully also the script can be fixed. The bot could perhaps also post its translations to a dedicated mailing list so that people could check on them. They could also use the commits list for this, or cia.vc. I am quite willing to write and operate this bot. It could also handle en_CA and en_AU and so on with different translation scripts. What do people think? peace Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Creating a New locale
U+0331 COMBINING MACRO BELOW: fe̱ed fo̱od U+0332 COMBINING LOW LINE: fe̲ed fo̲od Receiving my own message back again, Thunderbird had problems with U+0332 and U+0332 also doesn't work in view source for the web page, whereas U+0331 works fine for both. So I think U+0331 should be what you want, assuming it looks like the character you're looking for. peace Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) Licensing
2009/1/17 Christian Rose ment...@gnome.org: On 1/16/09, Thomas Thurman tthur...@gnome.org wrote: A month ago, I contacted: saudat mohammed sau...@wazobialinux.com Sylvester Onye sylves...@wazobialinux.com Sunday Ayo Fajuyitan a...@wazobialinux.com The first two immediately bounced. The second has not replied. I assume you mean the third address? Yes-- sorry. I have since found another address for Yoruba: Abayomi Mobolaji Onibudo (bonibz at hotmail dot com), given on http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/yo/ . I haven't tried to contact this person yet. i18n people: Since we now have the GPL metadata, is it reasonable for me to go ahead with merging translation for GPL packages such as Metacity? Yes please. The big problem in the case of these languages is of course the lack of volunteers, but perhaps some or partial translations will at least help spur some interest. Thanks for your offer to help out integrating these. I've now merged translations for epiphany gnome-desktop gnome-menus gnome-panel gnome-session metacity nautilus into the HEAD of each, msgmerging each one with the .pot for HEAD. Could the Damned Lies people tell the site that ig=Igbo and ha=Hausa, please? I did not merge evolution because it's LGPL (those I did merge are GPL). I did not merge anything else because they're non-GNOME projects (unless I missed something) and so I don't have commit rights for them. http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ha/gnome-2-26/ui/ http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/ig/gnome-2-26/ui/ http://l10n.gnome.org/languages/yo/gnome-2-26/ui/ Feedback is welcome! peace Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) Licensing
Ysgrifennodd Luis Villa: So, I still think it is a good idea to contact the authors just to be sure (if for no other reason than they may be able to help the translations live on) but this seems like fairly decent confirmation that the information is licensed appropriately and can be used. Shall I do the actual merge into svn, then? I'm happy to spend the hour or so it might take. Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) Licensing
Ysgrifennodd Roozbeh Pournader: On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Thomas Thurman tthur...@gnome.org wrote: Shall I do the actual merge into svn, then? I'm happy to spend the hour or so it might take. Please don't upload GPL translations to LGPL packages! Thanks for the reminder; it's also a reminder for those of us talking to Wazobia that we have to negotiate LGPL status with them in many cases. I will take care only to update GPL packages, if it's okay to go ahead. Chris: Unless some of them are listed as LGPL? Can you tell me the licence that the RPM gives for, say, the Igbo translation of gnome-desktop? (It should be LGPL.) Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) po files
Ysgrifennodd Marcel Telka: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 09:43:51PM -0500, Thomas Thurman wrote: Maybe in future we need to make the gettext tools enforce a rule that the header block of a .po file contains licence information, instead of assuming it's okay to leave it in the comments. Then we should also enforce compiler (gcc) to add license information to binaries... Do we really want that? Yes, I'd like that too. Actually, it would be really useful to warn people linking non-GPL binaries against GPL libraries. But I don't think the cases are parallel. You can't point some tool at a compiled binary and get the source code back. You can throw .mo files at msgunfmt and get *almost* the original .po back, but lacking the comments; if the comments are just comments, that's fine because they're just hints to humans, but if they contain actual useful metadata, there's no reason that metadata shouldn't live in the header block along with the metadata we already carry, like contact email address and name of the last translator. Honestly, the only metadata that *needs* to be in the header block is the content encoding; everything else is for human convenience (author name and contact details could live in comments as licence data already does, date can be figured out from source control, project can be figured out from the place the .po or .mo file is found, language team can be figured out from the pathname and the project name). There's no reason not to add another field to the mix to stop cases like this from happening again. peace Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) Licensing
Ysgrifennodd Chris Murphy: I mounted the disk image and poked around a bit. There are no .po files in the root filesystem, but there is a documentation folder: /usr/share/doc/wazobia-release-1/ which contains licensing information, including the GPL and a README/eula file that explain the contents of the CD being licensed under the GPL. Now that IS very interesting. So they explicitly put their work under the GPL, then? I've got the images mounted, and I'm happy to pull out other things if that's useful. The *.mo files are all there, but there's no *.po files. Thanks for doing that. The person who sent me the .mo and .po files told me he'd re-created the .po files using msgunfmt (a standard tool that decompiles back to .po for just such cases as these). Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) po files
Ysgrifennodd Roozbeh Pournader: It all boils down to if the actual software itself (Wazobia Linux, and its parts) was released under an (L)GPL(-compatible) license or not. http://wazobialinux.com/software_philosoph.html and http://wazobialinux.com/software_developer.html claim it was released under a free licence and does a reasonable job of explaining what a free licence is, but it doesn't actually say what the licence is. It also lets you download the iso without reading a licence (or at least it would, but the link now 404s). Google doesn't know any page other than those and the unrelated http://wazobialinux.com/partnership_programee.html which talks about licences. Should I go and find the person who sent me the .mo files and ask them for the iso and look somewhere on it for the licence, and if so, any idea where? I don't fancy booting off some random iso off the net just to see whether it puts up a licence screen. (I do wonder whether they negotiated the right to use the name Linux.) Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) po files
Ysgrifennodd Roozbeh Pournader: License screens don't really matter. The actual license files on the disc do (or so I believe). So, mounting the ISO and dissecting it may be sufficient. No need to boot from it. Thanks. The ISO seems to have vanished, but there's a 480Mb disk image here, which seems to be where the .mo files came from: http://wazobialinux.com/downloads/wlce.hda.img.21.09.2006 Could someone who knows what they're looking for dissect this? Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig) po files
Ysgrifennodd Luis Villa: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Thomas Thurman tthur...@gnome.org wrote: Thanks. The ISO seems to have vanished, but there's a 480Mb disk image here, which seems to be where the .mo files came from: http://wazobialinux.com/downloads/wlce.hda.img.21.09.2006 Could someone who knows what they're looking for dissect this? Are the .po files likely to be in there? Or are they likely to be only .mo files I don't know what's in there, but the person who sent me the .po files claims he got them from taking the .mo files out of that image and decompiling them, which seems to indicate that the .po files won't be in there. As I said before, though, I don't know what I'm looking for. (which, afaik, have no license information in them?) Maybe in future we need to make the gettext tools enforce a rule that the header block of a .po file contains licence information, instead of assuming it's okay to leave it in the comments. Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: What can Git do for translators?
2009/1/7 Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan sharuzza...@gmail.com: What I care is my language po file. Maybe around 15KB. Why should I download the whole bunch of data while the one that I need is just a small fraction of it. Indeed, why should you? You can get it from Damned Lies, can't you? Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig)
2008/12/16 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com: I think it would be good to get the views of the people behind Wazobia Linux, so that to give a chance to work upstream with GNOME for the translations. Is anyone already in contact, or is this task open? Nobody is in contact-- what I've posted is all anyone here knows, as far as I know. distrowatch.com claims that Wazobia is dormant: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=wazobia I'll try emailing one of the contact addresses and see what happens. Does anyone have an existing form letter that I can base it on? Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig)
2008/12/16 Simos Xenitellis simos.li...@googlemail.com: On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Thomas Thurman tthur...@gnome.org wrote: I'll try emailing one of the contact addresses and see what happens. Personally I would opt for an informal first email Well, I took the email addresses for the translators of Metacity in each case and sent that email. It immediately bounced for the ig and ha translators saying their mailbox was full. I'll report back if I hear anything from the yo translator. Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo (yo, ha, ig)
Further to my discussion on http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman/2008/12/15/i-think-we-should-have-an-igbo-translation/#comments in which I mentioned that a Nigerian distro called Wazobia Linux has translated various GNOME applications into the three languages in the subject line, a user has found a disk image, extracted the .mo files, decompiled them to .po and sent them to me. I have reproduced the archive and the files here temporarily for easy access: http://www.gnome.org/~tthurman/yo-ha-ig/ Must these translations have been released under a Free licence? What do we have to do in order to merge them upstream? Thomas -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman Did you know... ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: How to find where the string is from?
Ysgrifennodd Yannig MARCHEGAY: Hello everybody, I'm translating GNOME into Occitan and I'm quite alone to do it. Now, I'm using it normally and I translate in priority the English strings that remain in what I see. Recently, I saw a mistranslation in the languages (French, Spanish, etc., not PHP, ASP, etc.) shown when defining the doc language in gedit. That mistranslation is Franchimand but no way to find it in the langpack. My question is then how can I know where a string is from in order to translate it or correct it? http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=enlr=q=%22Franchimand%22+file%3A.*.po T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman There is an empty bottle here. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Cultural Issue with the Foot Logo
Ysgrifennodd Theppitak Karoonboonyanan: On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Gudmund Areskoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think no alternative logos will appear until people start submitting them. I'm not an artist. So, all I can do is propose ideas. As said somewhere in the marketing-list, I like Thilo's idea of the gnome hat. Probably, we can start with an old icon of EOG (attached). We can remove the eye to get only the hat, or it may include a gnome's face as well. You could cut it down to the bare essentials: http://spectrum.myriadcolours.com/~marnanel/gnome-hat.svg Any more and it would look like the Bass logo. T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman The dragon is implacable. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translation Team for Latin (la, lat)
Ysgrifennodd Petr Kovar: In the past, I was provided with some Recent Latin resource consisting of examples of computer terminology, I'm also aware of Roman Curia (or should I say Curia romana) publishing a lexicon for modern terms from time to time, but personally I somehow doubt that it'd enough for localization of something as extensive and as technical as GNOME. I've created a Wiki page: http://live.gnome.org/Latin Feel free to change it around; this is only my idea of what it should say. I've started going through Metacity's .pot and identifying terms we need (but only just started). Thomas -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman You'd probably be better off using your bare hands than that thing! ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translation Team for Latin (la, lat)
Ysgrifennodd Petr Kovar: Paul Norton [EMAIL PROTECTED], Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:55:58 -0700: On Fri, 2008-10-10 at 23:21 -0400, Thomas Thurman wrote: I'd quite like to join the team, though I'm already very overcommitted. I suspect we're both overcommitted, but if nobody does anything then there's no chance of it ever happening. This is a first step. Build it and they will come. Just a question of curiosity, what dictionaries, corpuses or linguistic tools in general are you going to use in localization to Latin as a target language? http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:Lexica_Latina_interretialia has a whole lot of useful links under De rebus recentibus. Thomas -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman glowing dimly. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translation Team for Latin (la, lat)
Ysgrifennodd Paul Norton: I'm interested in participating in - or starting - a Latin translation team. I've attempted to contact the person listed as interested on the TranslationProject website but the emails now bounce (Mark Polo - MPoloN7 at Netscape dot net). I first tried contacting him six or eight months ago without getting a reply. I've completed the first four steps of thechecklist for starting a new team. My Bugzilla account name is [EMAIL PROTECTED]. What now? As far as I know the Latin team is inactive, since there's been no activity in several release cycles, and as far as I'm aware there's no la.po in any of the modules. I did also ask about forming a Latin GNOME translation team on Wikipedia recently, and there was some interest: http://la.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicipaedia:Taberna#Other_Latin_technology_projects I'd quite like to join the team, though I'm already very overcommitted. Thomas -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman You are at a complex junction. A low hands and knees passage from the north joins a higher crawl from the east to make a walking passage going west. There is also a large room above. The air is damp here. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Metacity branched for 2.24
Metacity has been branched for stable 2.24 using the branch name gnome-2-24. Hacking will continue in trunk as 2.25.x. gnome-2-24 will eventually become the 2.24.0 release. Further 2.23 releases will be from the 2.24 branch and not trunk. New features in trunk will not be backported to 2.24, but bugfixes will be. Wishing you a happy, um (looks in Wikipedia) Feast of the Glorious Virgin St Radegund, Thomas -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman They seem to depict people and animals. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: unsupported native african and creole languages?
Ysgrifennodd Paulo Silva: Hi! I can't find at Gnome TranslationProject any support to native african languages (like kimbundu, zulu, xhosa, etc.) and creole (like jamaican, capeverdian, etc.) My concern is about it seems to having lots of people using these languages as their main one, more than their nation oficially used... As someone mentioned, the work gets done by people willing to do it. However, have you considered asking the people at http://www.translate.org.za whether they can find people willing to help out with translation of GNOME into a given language, or helping with them yourself if you can through translation or another way? T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman Probably a wise choice. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: New team for [Persian, Old (ca.600-400 B.C.)] ([peo])
Ysgrifennodd David Lodge: There is precedence for deceased languages in Gnome - there is an Olde Englisc team (ang) (though nothing's been done for a few years) as there is for Latin. ISTR trying to contact the Latin contact at some point and not getting a response. I wonder whether I should formally attempt to take over the all-but-sinecure team, such as it is, since I'm around, and after all I did get an A at Latin GCSE. :) T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman You are in a large room, with a passage to the south, a passage to the west, and a wall of broken rock to the east. There is a large Y2 on a rock in the room's center. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
I was working the other day on bug 335763, which allowed zenity yes/no dialogues to have arbitrary text on the yes and no buttons. It occurred to me today that this is actually a more general problem for yes/no dialogues in languages where the answers to such questions depend on the verb used. (I know Irish and Welsh have this feature.) For example, from gossip: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? Creating a dialogue with gtk_message_dialog_new() will give us buttons called Ie and Nage, which are generic unfocussed yes/no words. I am turning over whether gettext might be appropriately extended to something like, perhaps #, yes-no msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes? msgstr[y] Oes msgstr[n] Nac oes or possibly we might extend gtk so that the message_format string can (perhaps if passed a special flag) contain yes/no text for the buttons as appropriate, which would require minimal changes anywhere else: msgid Do you already have an account set up on a server? msgstr A oes cyfrif ar weinydd Jabber gennych eisoes?%(Oes)yb%(Nac oes)nb The second is my preferred option out of the two. It doesn't look hard to implement, either. Thoughts? Would this be useful outside the Celtic languages? peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman No problem there -- it already is. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd Jonh Wendell: Why not just make your own dialog, gtk+ allows you to add any kind of custom button. Because I'm thinking from the point of view of the translators rather than the programmers. The programmers can create a dialogue with any buttons they like, it's true, but unless the default language of the application is Welsh or Irish they're unlikely to have used custom buttons for a yes/no question. Since the translators are usually translating US English strings from code, it's unlikely that all GTK users are going to agree to use custom dialogue buttons just for the sake of Welsh and Irish users; indeed, that would make GTK_BUTTONS_YES_NO rather pointless. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman They're just ordinary boulders. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd F Wolff: I would really want to encourage you to keep things as simple as possible. If you want a different translation for yes depending on context, this is what msgctxt is meant for. Use msgctxt to specify the unique context (have?), and provide a comment to explain to translators what the issue is. I think you are missing my point. I am not approaching this problem as a programmer; rather, I am considering it from the point of view of a translator. There are languages in which every yes/no question might reasonably have a different verbal representation of assent or dissent. I can't go through every gtk application in the world and ask their programmers to add representations of the verb into msgctxt. Even if I could, there still wouldn't be any way for the translators to specify what the translation of yes and no should be for that particular question. The reason I gave the examples I did was that to all application programmers, and to most translators, they won't look any different from what we have now. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman You don't find anything under the machine. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd Claude Paroz: I suspect this will be difficult to solve if only two languages are concerned. This problem could in theory affect other stock items too, and we have currently no mechanism to link a question with the corresponding stock buttons. This is a good point; part of my reason for asking here was to discover whether it was a more far-reaching problem than just for the Celtic languages, and whether any kind of deep change might be needed. (I believe I could create a mechanism to link a question with the stock buttons, but another part of the reason for the question is to find out whether it's worth doing so.) Couldn't you find a way to rephrase the question in the translation so as the answer is always the generic yes and no? I think the form of the question would be no less stilted than the current solution of using the generic yes and no for everything, so in that case the status quo is the place to stay. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman They're probably worth a fortune! ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Translating yes and no as answers to specific questions
Ysgrifennodd Christian Rose: So please describe the problem on the mailing list that the gettext developers use (https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translation-i18n). I've found the gettext developers to be very responsive to feedback and suggestions. I'll take the discussion there, then. Thanks. peace T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman The geyser of blistering steam erupts continuously from a barren island in the center of a sulfurous lake, which bubbles ominously. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Workspace numbers
Some background: Metacity allows you to have various numbers of workspaces (between 1 and 36) and to give names to each of these workspaces. If you don't give a name to a workspace, Metacity looks up Workspace %d in the translation, replaces %d with the workspace number, and uses that instead. However, when you go to the window menu and choose Move to other workspace, we need to insert underscores into the strings (to mark the accelerators). The way we do this currently for each workspace name is this: we check whether the workspace name matches Workplace %d from the translation, where %d can be any number (not necessarily the number of that workspace). If it IS, we replace it with Workspace %s%d from the translation, where %s is either an underscore (if %d is less than ten) or the empty string (if %d is greater than ten). HOWEVER, in the case where %d is exactly ten, we use Workspace 1_0 from the translation. If it ISN'T (this can only happen when they've renamed a workspace, and is the most common such case) , we merely add an underscore before the first digit, and if there are no digits, we add (_n) where n is the index of the workspace. Now, a) This gives translators three strings to translate for approximately the same function. So here's what I'd like to know from the translators: would it be possible or desirable if we had a single string Workspace %d where: 1. The %d would be replaced by index numbers to generate default workspace names (I hope so, because this is what we do now); 2. The %d would be replaced by _number for menu options for the first to ninth workspaces; 3. The %d would be replaced by 1_0 to generate a menu option for the tenth workspace (i.e. the zero would be the accelerator); 4. The %d would be replaced by the plain decimal number otherwise. b) How do languages which don't use 0 to 9 for their digits deal with %d in gettext, anyway? Assuming it works properly in general, I assume it would mean we couldn't do the third point above and everyone would have to translate Workspace 1_0 separately. c) Someone has complained that it's unclear under these rules what should happen when a workspace is called Workspace 10 is a very nice workspace (see bug 453678 for details, not that they're important). I thought I could treat this as a special case of Workspace 10, but now I'm thinking that's just silly and there's no way that's ever going to be translatable in the general case. Thomas -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman You've already done enough damage! ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
msgfmt commit hook (was Re: Plural forms in translations)
On Fri, Mar 07, 2008 at 09:22:14AM +0100, Claude Paroz wrote: Please, do not commit translations into GNOME SVN without checking first that they pass 'msgfmt' check command: We could perhaps have a commit hook which disallows .po files which don't pass msgfmt. What do people think? T -- Thomas Thurman, tthurman at gnome, http://blogs.gnome.org/tthurman The bear is confused; he only wants to be your friend. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
metacity branched for 2.22
Metacity has been branched for 2.22. The new branch name is gnome-2-22. Development will continue in trunk. Thanks to all of you for the work you do. T ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Urdu using both urd and ur
Hi. I've raised this in Bugzilla but I was asked on IRC to email you as well. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=514348 Urdu has both an ISO 639-2 and an ISO 639-3 code (ur and urd respectively). The only three gettext files we have in Urdu are called ur.po. damned-lies, however, calls Urdu urd, as does Bugzilla. I believe this should be changed to ur. Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: gettrans script
On 12/12/2007, Bastien Nocera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems it's broken now, as it screenscrapes damned lies. Could you fix it? When you've fixed it, I'd like to include it in gnome-i18n SVN, as it could be helpful to other locales as well. Alternatively, I wonder whether the redesign of damned-lies has obviated the need for this script anyway. T ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: gettrans script
On 12/12/2007, Bastien Nocera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It seems it's broken now, as it screenscrapes damned lies. Could you fix it? When you've fixed it, I'd like to include it in gnome-i18n SVN, as it could be helpful to other locales as well. Alternatively, if somebody has Python-fu to fix it... I think a really neat way to fix it would be to modify damned-lies so it could serve up stats in json. Maybe I'll take a look later... T ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
i18n blog?
I've found it useful in the last few weeks to have a project blog for Metacity (http://blogs.gnome.org/metacity/). I wonder whether it would be useful for the i18n effort as a whole to have a shared project blog where people could post about the challenges different people have to face and what they're doing to overcome them. Maybe it's just a solution looking for a problem, I don't know. Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Would it save time for translators to fold similar lines?
On 02/12/2007, Robert-André Mauchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think this is a good idea. Actually we do translate the \top\ and other attributes to give informations about it. For example in french translation : #: ../src/theme-parser.c:1540 #, c-format msgid No \top\ attribute on element %s msgstr Aucun attribut « top » (« haut ») sur l'élément %s Ah, I see what you mean. A brief overview of the languages used in Metacity shows that, for theme-parser.c:1547: Languages which contain the keyword bottom and clearly (to me) don't translate it at all: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ca cs da de es eu fi hu it lt nb nl pl pt ro ru sk sl [EMAIL PROTECTED] sr sv th uk Languages which include the word bottom and also translate it: fr vi Languages where the question doesn't make sense because bottom means the same thing as in en_US: en_CA en_GB Languages which are so different from any I know that I can't make a reasonable guess were excluded from the count. However, these languages do not contain the string bottom at all, which necessarily means they are erroneous; most of them contain a quoted string which is presumably a direct translation: ar pa pt_BR ta Given all this, I suppose there are three avenues we may take: 1) Decide that it is best if error messages don't attempt to translate keywords for users, and make a general policy that the manual is the place for such information (as almost all languages are already doing). This would have the useful side-effect of fixing at a stroke the problem posed by the languages which don't give the actual keywords at all. 2) Decide to leave it up to the translators, and make a general policy that developers should provide places to translate each keyword (so in almost all languages bottom the Metacity theme keyword would be bottom, but in French it would be « bottom » (« bas »)). 3) Do nothing and leave things as they are. T ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Would it save time for translators to fold similar lines?
On 03/12/2007, Jorge González [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That really depends, in Spanish we won't translate it if its an HTML tag, but if its not something standard as a programming language or any other, we will, from metacity: #: ../src/theme.c:208 msgid bottom msgstr inferior In the case I was wondering about it was an attribute value (not an HTML one, but it might as well have been). I would have changed it so the program supplied the string given our discussion earlier, but apparently fr and vi don't like this. In fact, meny times the problem is that we don't have enough context to translate. Well, quite, and that's something I'd like to work to change. Obviously I can't tell you everything about every program, but let's take metacity as an example-- which strings are insufficiently formatted? I would like to sit down as a developer and talk to the translators to know how I can serve you better. I can tell you, for example, that theme.c:208 is actually a keyword and should *either* never have been passed through the translation process at all *or* should have been the same one used as in the previous example (so that the French people can translate both of them as « bottom » (« bas »)). Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Would it save time for translators to fold similar lines?
On 03/12/2007, Jorge González [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know metacity that well, but I can give you another example: many times we don't have any idea what are the variables, and in other languages rather than English, words can be male, female, neutral and perhaps even more, so depending on the word (variable) we should translate it in differently. Even the variable could change the whole sentence, for example, take a look at: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480898 and one of the worst cases of lack of context: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474973 I quite understand the morphology issue, but in this context it has to do with keywords (which necessarily are immune from morphology). I was not suggesting (and would not suggest) folding strings together which varied only by arbitrary nouns, as in the two examples you give. Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Would it save time for translators to fold similar lines?
On 02/12/2007, helix84 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the general case, this would work for Slovak. But be sure to give context id to the variable values (i.e. htmlattr|top, htmlattr|bottom). In our case, this is because the word used in a specific place in one sentence (context) _may_ have a different grammatical case than in another sentence (context) but all from the same context will have the same grammatical case. Context will need to be specified in the comment to msgid containing the sentence with the variable. I take your point. I am a little puzzled, though, as to why the variable values top/bottom/left/right/etc (they're not actually HTML attributes, but close enough) would need to appear in the .po at all, since the word is a fixed value like bottom (which happens to have a semantic value in English, but could just as well be a number or a string of random characters) and therefore, as I suppose, can't have any morphological changes applied to it, whatever the language. I may always be wrong, of course. :) Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Joining the en_GB team
On 18/09/2007, Bruce Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Didn't receive a reply, so forwarding it here. Forwarded Message From: Bruce Cowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Joining the en_GB team Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:17:07 +0100 I have noticed that there has been little en_GB work in GNOME for a while, so I thought that I could help out. Hello there. Have you read http://live.gnome.org/BritishEnglish ? Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Verbs form in UI actions
On 18/12/06, Dale Gulledge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 12/18/06, Wouter Bolsterlee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2006-12-17 klockan 17:31 skrev Youssef Chahibi: In what form (Infinitive, Noun, Imperative) are UI actions like Open, Close, Show ... translated in your language? Do you have any idea about what is intended by the verb form in English, is Imperative or infinitive? In English, these words are written as imperatives (spelled the same as infinitive). However, in Dutch, we stick to infinitives only. Imperative form is considered bad style and impolite. I don't know whether it makes any difference in terms of politeness, but I've always interpreted these menu items as imperatives directed at the software. Thus, the user is commanding the program to perform the action. I remember I had this argument with a teacher somewhere around 1990 because of the French i18n on our town VAX. The French commands were all infinitives, and I'd thought they should be imperatives because that's what I'd always understood the English commands to be. The teacher maintained that the English commands were infinitives lacking the to. I wonder whether most English speakers think of them as imperatives, and what languages other than English don't think of them as infinitives. peace Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Verbs form in UI actions
On 18/12/06, Wouter Bolsterlee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was explicitly referring to Dutch here. Imperative style is just not friendly in Dutch, and it sounds a bit strange as well (all Dutch software uses infinitives instead of imperatives). I think it must vary a lot by language. Someone on LiveJournal told me that in Swedish they use the passive voice for such instructions. peace Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: How to translate new string in gnome-applets
On 23/08/06, Daniel Nylander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,How should I translate the new stringTomboy (ne Stickynotes)in gnome-applets?ne is what? Not equal? Traditionally, in the UK and US, women have taken their husband's name on marriage. When you want to tell people a woman's name and have both her old and new names listed, you would write it like this: Lucy Hall nee Augerwhere nee is the French word for born, because that was the name she was born with.This is an example of the same idea: they are saying that what is now Tomboy was once Stickynotes. However, they appear to think that Tomboy is male, so are using the masculine form of nee, ne. (This is rather amusing, since in English a tomboy must necessarily be female.) If the same concept doesn't exist in your language, you could treat it as something like Tomboy, formerly Stickynotes.peaceThomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: a comic reliefe
Yair Hershkovitz wrote: msgid To be valid, the user name should have less than %d character msgid_plural To be valid, the user name should have less than %d characters It ought to be fewer, anyway. peace Thomas ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
