date:20230503

Re: [GRN] Document services (those who wanted the contact)

2023-05-03 Thread Frederick Noronha

So how does a private entity (without even a name mentioned on the website
https://goadocuments.com/) manage to offer access to so many government
documents, old Portuguese passports from Goa, *matriz* records, property
title documents, property surveys, property identification by owners,
notarial deeds for properties, old *para viagem* documents ... which are
next to impossible to come by in the normal course in today's Goa? FN

On Wed, 3 May 2023 at 16:14, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <
goa-research-net@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Dear Frederick,
>
> What do you propose I do? Run a criminal police check on the man? How
> about electoral fraud or tax evasion? The man provides a service. In my
> opinion he charges a nominal fee. If he delivers you continue with the
> relationship. If not you move on. That is how capitalistic relationships
> work, isn't it?
>
> Honestly, I find this Goan penchant for conspiracy theories quite
> exhausting. I realise it's a sort of cultural thing. Every Goan has a
> conspiracy theory. They are very suspicious of everyone and everything
> except their politicians and homeopaths. Those they trust profoundly.
>
> This is the reason I didn't want to share the contact.
>
> All best wishes,
> Selma
>
>
> On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 10:34:18 BST, Frederick Noronha <
> fredericknoron...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Better to check credentials before sharing. Sometimes one comes across
> agents who help in corrupting the system while acting as if they are
> offering "solutions". The land sector too is full of such types. Part of
> the game can be to make the official system "unworkable". FN
>
> On Tue, 2 May 2023 at 23:36, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <
> goa-research-net@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Dear members,
>
> Here is his website which offers a host of services among which is
> researching documents.
>
> https://goadocuments.com/
>
> The email is: file@gmail.com
>
> take care,
> Selma
>
> --
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> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [GRN] Document services (those who wanted the contact)

2023-05-03 Thread Crispino Lobo

Thank you Selma!
Regards.
Crispino

On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 11:36 PM 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <
goa-research-net@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Dear members,
>
> Here is his website which offers a host of services among which is
> researching documents.
>
> https://goadocuments.com/
>
> The email is: file@gmail.com
>
> take care,
> Selma
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to goa-research-net+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/316463997.1650660.1683050780808%40mail.yahoo.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
Sincerely,
*Crispino Lobo*
Co-Founder and Managing Trustee


__
*Phone:* +91 946521
*Email Id :** cslo...@gmail.com *
*Website:* www.wotr.org

[image:
https://twitter.com/WOTRIndia] 


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Re: [GRN] April 25, 1974: It all started in India (Goa) and ended in Lisbon

2023-05-03 Thread 'carolina costa' via Goa-Research-Net

Concerning the independence of the Portuguese territories in Africa, I wrote a 
book “From Goa to Goa”, 2020, which focuses a little on the decolonisation of 
Mozambique and resettlement in Portugal. This is however, from a personal 
perspective.
Carolina Costa 
Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 May 2023, at 18:54, Edgar Valles  wrote:
> 
> 
> In fact, as all of us are aware that there is a big difference between what 
> happened in Goa in December 1961 and what happened in the other former 
> Portuguese colonies (Africa and East Timor), which became independent...
> Bandung Conference in Jakarta (1953) approved the principle that the colonial 
> people should have the right of self determination, with respect to the 
> borders defined by the colonial powers, however artificial they might be...
> Of course, the invasion of Goa (as it was defined by the Supreme Court of 
> India) was a strong blow to the Portuguese colonial Empire. 
> EdgarValles
> 
> 
> 
> Nuno Cardoso da Silva  escreveu no dia quarta, 
> 26/04/2023 à(s) 12:55:
>> The war in Africa lasted 13 years or, approximately, 4,750 days. Three 
>> soldiers killed per day would make 14,250 soldiers dead. In fact we had 
>> about 9,000 dead over the 13 years. When talking about delicate issues such 
>> as this one, one better be exact. Being 58% wrong seems to me a bit too 
>> much, and may lead us to doubt the correcteness of whatever else was said by 
>> Pedro Mascarenhas.
>>  
>> Sincerely
>>  
>> Nuno Cardoso da Silva
>> (also a former second lieutenant in Angola, from 1966 to 1968, with a very 
>> different war experience, in the field and not on HQ)
>>  
>>  
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2023 at 12:13 PM
>> From: "PEDRO MASCARENHAS" 
>> To: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [GRN] April 25, 1974: It all started in India (Goa) and ended 
>> in Lisbon
>> I completed compulsory military service as a second lieutenant and dealt 
>> with the internal situation in the barracks for 3 years. I became aware of 
>> the complaints about the situation.
>> My article focuses solely and exclusively on the military fighting on the 
>> battlefield, in the jungle. What the soldiers felt in the face of daily 
>> difficulties, deaths, injuries, poor food, etc., their dissatisfactions and 
>> fears.
>> While the pro-Salazar politicians and generals in the cities lived very well 
>> and felt comfortable.
>> 1 - The soldiers without ideal conditions in Goa were humiliated with an 
>> expected defeat (19/12/1961) . Here begins the hatred of the military 
>> against the fascist regime.
>> 2 - Then follows a long and hard guerrilla war in Africa, where at least 3 
>> soldiers died every day. It was an unequal and endless struggle. Here hatred 
>> grows even more against the regime.
>> 3 - Othelo's revolt has nothing to do with its origin. He never referenced 
>> his Indian origin. The Portuguese are not obsessed with ancestors, whether 
>> Chinese, African or Indian.
>> 
>> Cumpri o serviço militar compulsorio como segundo tenente e lidei durante 3 
>> anos com a situação interna nos quarteis. Tomei conhecimento das queixas da 
>> situação.
>> O meu artigo foca unica e exclusivamente nos militares lutando no campo de 
>> batalha, na selva. Aquilo que os soldados sentiam perante as dificuldades 
>> diárias, as mortes, os feridos, má alimentação, etc., da suas insatisfações 
>> e receios.  
>> Enquanto os políticos e generais pro-Salazar nas cidades viviam muito bem e 
>> se sentiam confortaveis.  
>> 1 - Os militares sem condições ideias em Goa foram humilhados com uma 
>> derrota esperada (19/12/1961) . Começa aqui o ódio dos militares contra o 
>> regime fascista.
>> 2 - Segue-se depois uma longa e dura guerra de gurrilha  em  África, onde 
>> morriam, por dia pelo menos 3 soldados. Era uma luta desigual e sem fim. 
>> Aqui o ódio aumenta ainda mais contra o regime.
>> 3 - A revolta do Otelo não tem nada a ver com a sua origem. Ele nunca 
>> referenciou a sua origem indiana. Os portugueses não estão obsecados com os 
>> antepassados, se chinês, africano ou indiano.  
>> Pedro Mascarenhas
>>  
>> Frederick Noronha  escreveu no dia terça, 
>> 25/04/2023 à(s) 22:41:
>>> Just three questions here:
>>>  
>>> (1) Since the war for independence/Portuguese colonial war in Africa began 
>>> in February 1961, what does this imply as far as the timeline? Also, the 
>>> following reminiscences suggest that Africa was also pushing India on this 
>>> score:
>>>  
>>> QUOTE In October 1961, Nehru, through the Indian Council for Africa, 
>>> summoned in New Delhi a Seminar on the Problems of the Portuguese Colonies. 
>>> When it ended, in Bombay, a big demonstration took place. Marcelino dos 
>>> Santos remembers:
>>> While summoning that great meeting of all the movements of national 
>>> liberation of the Portuguese colonies, we thought that Nehru was against 
>>> us. I do not know whether he invited Timor,

Re: [GRN] Document services (those who wanted the contact)

2023-05-03 Thread 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net

Dear Frederick,
What do you propose I do? Run a criminal police check on the man? How about
electoral fraud or tax evasion? The man provides a service. In my opinion he
charges a nominal fee. If he delivers you continue with the relationship. If
not you move on. That is how capitalistic relationships work, isn't it?
Honestly, I find this Goan penchant for conspiracy theories quite exhausting. I
realise it's a sort of cultural thing. Every Goan has a conspiracy theory. They
are very suspicious of everyone and everything except their politicians and
homeopaths. Those they trust profoundly.
This is the reason I didn't want to share the contact.
All best wishes,Selma
On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 10:34:18 BST, Frederick Noronha
wrote:

Better to check credentials before sharing. Sometimes one comes across agents
who help in corrupting the system while acting as if they are offering
"solutions". The land sector too is full of such types. Part of the game can be
to make the official system "unworkable". FN

On Tue, 2 May 2023 at 23:36, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net
wrote:

Dear members,
Here is his website which offers a host of services among which is researching
documents.
https://goadocuments.com/

The email is: file@gmail.com
take care,Selma

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Re: [GRN] Gravestone documentation

2023-05-03 Thread 'Luis Dias' via Goa-Research-Net

Thanks John. I'd appreciate that very much.
Best wishes,
Luis
_
Dr. Luis Francisco Dias
Casa da Moeda
Near Head Post Office
Panaji, Goa - 403001
INDIA

Tel: (+91) 9011051950
http://luisdias.wordpress.com
http://www.childsplayindia.org

On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 11:44:09 GMT+5:30, John de Figueiredo
wrote:

Dear Luis,I will look for it and send you the link.John

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2023, at 12:39 AM, 'Luis Dias' via Goa-Research-Net
wrote:

I tried searching online for the link (gravestones in Goa) but couldn't find
anything.
Please do share if possible.
Best wishes,
Luis

_
Dr. Luis Francisco Dias
Casa da Moeda
Near Head Post Office
Panaji, Goa - 403001
INDIA

Tel: (+91) 9011051950
http://luisdias.wordpress.com
http://www.childsplayindia.org

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 23:24:07 GMT+5:30, 'Carvalho' via
Goa-Research-Net wrote:

Dear John,
It is true, even the graves need archival care and curation. Or another
resource lost forever.
J. A. Ismael Gracias was I believe the first director of the Central Library in
Goa. It would have been good if there had been some nod to this luminary.

Warm wishes,Selma

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 18:27:45 BST, John de Figueiredo
wrote:

Sent from my iPhone

On May 2, 2023, at 12:34 PM, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net
wrote:

I thought I'd just share this with members. If you don't want to spend time at
the Goa Archives, you can find a lot of documentation on Goan gravestones. Last
year I visited several cemeteries and collected several relevant birth and
death records as well as biography at times. To give you an idea of the extent
of biography available, I'm attaching a gravestone photo. Here you will not
come across a single surly clerk, but just the peace and quiet of the dead.
Take care,Selma

Re: [GRN] Document services (those who wanted the contact)

2023-05-03 Thread Frederick Noronha

Better to check credentials before sharing. Sometimes one comes across
agents who help in corrupting the system while acting as if they are
offering "solutions". The land sector too is full of such types. Part of
the game can be to make the official system "unworkable". FN

On Tue, 2 May 2023 at 23:36, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <
goa-research-net@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Dear members,
>
> Here is his website which offers a host of services among which is
> researching documents.
>
> https://goadocuments.com/
>
> The email is: file@gmail.com
>
> take care,
> Selma
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to goa-research-net+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/316463997.1650660.1683050780808%40mail.yahoo.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [GRN] Update about Goa Archives

2023-05-03 Thread 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net

 Having said this, I don't hold out much hope. I think it's been more than five 
years I made a similar stink about the state of Pai Agostinho's (the father of 
tiatr) original handwritten plays and stage directions which are deposited at a 
Konkani Academi in Goa. Those books are in serious peril and already under 
attack from white ants. There was similar concern at the time but I doubt 
anything came of it.
It is good that my research doesn't in the main require a Goa archive 
repository. I would be too distressed each time I see the lack of custodial 
care afforded these priceless documents.
Having said that my research does involve interviewing and documenting family 
histories in Goa, UK and Canada (descendants of those who had emigrated to 
British East Africa). A similar loss of history exists here. While the 20th 
century can be documented with  (not good but) adequate memory retrieval, not 
much of the 19th century can be reconstructed through family history. And that 
which is retrieved suffers from all the vulnerabilities of oral history.

Take care,Selma

On Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 08:55:09 BST, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net 
 wrote:  
 
  Dear Jules,
We must look strange going around with our cameras photographing gravestones. 
LOL. 
I think digitisation of those records is the need of the hour and somehow an 
appeal must be made to the government to make this a priority. They could even 
make it a paywalled site earning thousands in foreign currency because so many 
Goans abroad want to trace their roots.
Take care,SelmaOn Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 08:15:08 BST, Jules Fausto 
Mendonca de Sa  wrote:  
 
 Hi Selma,
I have been reading the posts regarding your visit to the Goa archives with a 
great deal of interest and it is not far off from what I highlighted to you in 
a post a couple of months earlier. Since 2009 - I have made at least two visits 
to archives on each of my trips to Goa and have seen no improvements or 
modernisation. I have been  given to understand that no major funding has been  
provided for the maintenance of this valuable resource - which an organisation  
like ancestry.com, Myheritage.com or family history.com would gladly assist. 
The latter had undertaken work on goa Church records from 1914 to 1996 which 
were initially microfilmed but now digitised. The same could be done for 
records at the archives meaning that the books could be copied and stored away 
with access given via screens set up within the Goa archives. Anyone wishing to 
avail of records from the comfort of their homes either locally or overseas 
could take up a subscription which could be used for this maintenance. I do 
believe that there is some scope for this. I am aware that some records are 
available via a Goa Government link but these are no use to people like me who 
does not have an Aadhar Card or Indian cell No.Many suggestions but requiring 
the will.
Kind regards
Fausto PS. I do agree that many old tombstones carry a wealth of information 
and this has been a valuable resource for me in my genealogical work. My wife 
often jokes that whilst people take pictures of scenic beaches - my camera is 
full of gravestones after a visit to Goa.
Sent from Outlook
From: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Crispino Lobo 
Sent: 02 May 2023 02:17
To: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [GRN] Update about Goa Archives Hi Selma,Would be grateful if you 
could also send it to me - cslo...@gmail.com.Thank you.Crispino Lobo

On Mon, 1 May, 2023, 9:26 PM 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net, 
 wrote:

Certainly, John, I'll email it to you privately.
Warm wishes,Selma
On Monday, 1 May 2023 at 16:43:34 BST, John de Figueiredo 
 wrote:

Dear Selma,Please get the name and contact information of the person who helped 
you. He/she is precious.Best wishes,John

Sent from my iPhone

On May 1, 2023, at 2:25 AM, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net 
 wrote:



Dear all,
Thank you for the numerous helpful response regarding Goa Archives. I did 
indeed visit the Goa Archives. I arrived at 10am and sat patiently for an hour. 
Eventually someone recognised me as the writer and hastened my entry into the 
archive hall. This office defied any semblance of modernity and had an 
estranged relationship with technology. By some antediluvian method, I ordered 
a documented assisted by person who recognised me. I then took a seat and 
awaited said document. I sat in a hall full of men who pored over centuries-old 
documents with their arms spread on these books, brandishing felt pens, the 
documents spine straddled without support. After I saw this, I felt nausea 
creeping up and tried to avoid eye contact with anyone, most of all the clerks 
in the room. 
I sat for another one hour and could see all the peons chatting but no document 
had arrived. I went to the head clerk and asked about the possible arrival of 
my book. He nodded to a peon, they laughed, and one frail creature departed on 
his search

Re: [GRN] Update about Goa Archives

2023-05-03 Thread 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net

 Dear Jules,
We must look strange going around with our cameras photographing gravestones. 
LOL. 
I think digitisation of those records is the need of the hour and somehow an 
appeal must be made to the government to make this a priority. They could even 
make it a paywalled site earning thousands in foreign currency because so many 
Goans abroad want to trace their roots.
Take care,SelmaOn Wednesday, 3 May 2023 at 08:15:08 BST, Jules Fausto 
Mendonca de Sa  wrote:  
 
 Hi Selma,
I have been reading the posts regarding your visit to the Goa archives with a 
great deal of interest and it is not far off from what I highlighted to you in 
a post a couple of months earlier. Since 2009 - I have made at least two visits 
to archives on each of my trips to Goa and have seen no improvements or 
modernisation. I have been  given to understand that no major funding has been  
provided for the maintenance of this valuable resource - which an organisation  
like ancestry.com, Myheritage.com or family history.com would gladly assist. 
The latter had undertaken work on goa Church records from 1914 to 1996 which 
were initially microfilmed but now digitised. The same could be done for 
records at the archives meaning that the books could be copied and stored away 
with access given via screens set up within the Goa archives. Anyone wishing to 
avail of records from the comfort of their homes either locally or overseas 
could take up a subscription which could be used for this maintenance. I do 
believe that there is some scope for this. I am aware that some records are 
available via a Goa Government link but these are no use to people like me who 
does not have an Aadhar Card or Indian cell No.Many suggestions but requiring 
the will.
Kind regards
Fausto PS. I do agree that many old tombstones carry a wealth of information 
and this has been a valuable resource for me in my genealogical work. My wife 
often jokes that whilst people take pictures of scenic beaches - my camera is 
full of gravestones after a visit to Goa.
Sent from Outlook
From: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Crispino Lobo 
Sent: 02 May 2023 02:17
To: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [GRN] Update about Goa Archives Hi Selma,Would be grateful if you 
could also send it to me - cslo...@gmail.com.Thank you.Crispino Lobo

On Mon, 1 May, 2023, 9:26 PM 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net, 
 wrote:

Certainly, John, I'll email it to you privately.
Warm wishes,Selma
On Monday, 1 May 2023 at 16:43:34 BST, John de Figueiredo 
 wrote:

Dear Selma,Please get the name and contact information of the person who helped 
you. He/she is precious.Best wishes,John

Sent from my iPhone

On May 1, 2023, at 2:25 AM, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net 
 wrote:



Dear all,
Thank you for the numerous helpful response regarding Goa Archives. I did 
indeed visit the Goa Archives. I arrived at 10am and sat patiently for an hour. 
Eventually someone recognised me as the writer and hastened my entry into the 
archive hall. This office defied any semblance of modernity and had an 
estranged relationship with technology. By some antediluvian method, I ordered 
a documented assisted by person who recognised me. I then took a seat and 
awaited said document. I sat in a hall full of men who pored over centuries-old 
documents with their arms spread on these books, brandishing felt pens, the 
documents spine straddled without support. After I saw this, I felt nausea 
creeping up and tried to avoid eye contact with anyone, most of all the clerks 
in the room. 
I sat for another one hour and could see all the peons chatting but no document 
had arrived. I went to the head clerk and asked about the possible arrival of 
my book. He nodded to a peon, they laughed, and one frail creature departed on 
his search with all the enthusiasm of a man being led to the guillotine. 
Finally he returned clutching the holy grail of a book but when I took custody, 
it was the wrong book. I went to tell the manager who sat in a class cabin with 
the surly look of a government officer, pressing a buzzer to summon people. He 
dismissed by not looking up. I did not wait for the right document because had 
it arrived, I could neither photograph it nor photocopy it. I would have to 
make an application for the record and collect it 15 days later. So I left.
Every department, institution and organisation of governance in Goa (and 
unfortunately I have had to visit many) is a failure of efficiency, procedure, 
custody and care. We are light years away from any semblance of modernity and 
our sense of Goan exceptionalism is utterly misplaced.
The story does have a happy ending. The man who recognised me researches 
records for a living and I shall simply hire his services.
Take care,Selma

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Re: [GRN] Update about Goa Archives

2023-05-03 Thread Jules Fausto Mendonca de Sa

Hi Selma,

I have been reading the posts regarding your visit to the Goa archives with a 
great deal of interest and it is not far off from what I highlighted to you in 
a post a couple of months earlier. Since 2009 - I have made at least two visits 
to archives on each of my trips to Goa and have seen no improvements or 
modernisation. I have been  given to understand that no major funding has been  
provided for the maintenance of this valuable resource - which an organisation  
like ancestry.com, Myheritage.com or family history.com would gladly assist. 
The latter had undertaken work on goa Church records from 1914 to 1996 which 
were initially microfilmed but now digitised. The same could be done for 
records at the archives meaning that the books could be copied and stored away 
with access given via screens set up within the Goa archives. Anyone wishing to 
avail of records from the comfort of their homes either locally or overseas 
could take up a subscription which could be used for this maintenance. I do 
believe that there is some scope for this. I am aware that some records are 
available via a Goa Government link but these are no use to people like me who 
does not have an Aadhar Card or Indian cell No.
Many suggestions but requiring the will.

Kind regards

Fausto
 PS. I do agree that many old tombstones carry a wealth of information and this 
has been a valuable resource for me in my genealogical work. My wife often 
jokes that whilst people take pictures of scenic beaches - my camera is full of 
gravestones after a visit to Goa.

Sent from Outlook


From: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com  on 
behalf of Crispino Lobo 
Sent: 02 May 2023 02:17
To: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [GRN] Update about Goa Archives

Hi Selma,
Would be grateful if you could also send it to me - cslo...@gmail.com.Thank you.
Crispino Lobo


On Mon, 1 May, 2023, 9:26 PM 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net, 
mailto:goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:
Certainly, John, I'll email it to you privately.

Warm wishes,
Selma

On Monday, 1 May 2023 at 16:43:34 BST, John de Figueiredo 
mailto:johnde...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:


Dear Selma,
Please get the name and contact information of the person who helped you. 
He/she is precious.
Best wishes,
John

Sent from my iPhone

On May 1, 2023, at 2:25 AM, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net 
mailto:goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>> 
wrote:


Dear all,

Thank you for the numerous helpful response regarding Goa Archives. I did 
indeed visit the Goa Archives. I arrived at 10am and sat patiently for an hour. 
Eventually someone recognised me as the writer and hastened my entry into the 
archive hall. This office defied any semblance of modernity and had an 
estranged relationship with technology. By some antediluvian method, I ordered 
a documented assisted by person who recognised me. I then took a seat and 
awaited said document. I sat in a hall full of men who pored over centuries-old 
documents with their arms spread on these books, brandishing felt pens, the 
documents spine straddled without support. After I saw this, I felt nausea 
creeping up and tried to avoid eye contact with anyone, most of all the clerks 
in the room.

I sat for another one hour and could see all the peons chatting but no document 
had arrived. I went to the head clerk and asked about the possible arrival of 
my book. He nodded to a peon, they laughed, and one frail creature departed on 
his search with all the enthusiasm of a man being led to the guillotine. 
Finally he returned clutching the holy grail of a book but when I took custody, 
it was the wrong book. I went to tell the manager who sat in a class cabin with 
the surly look of a government officer, pressing a buzzer to summon people. He 
dismissed by not looking up. I did not wait for the right document because had 
it arrived, I could neither photograph it nor photocopy it. I would have to 
make an application for the record and collect it 15 days later. So I left.

Every department, institution and organisation of governance in Goa (and 
unfortunately I have had to visit many) is a failure of efficiency, procedure, 
custody and care. We are light years away from any semblance of modernity and 
our sense of Goan exceptionalism is utterly misplaced.

The story does have a happy ending. The man who recognised me researches 
records for a living and I shall simply hire his services.

Take care,
Selma

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Re: [GRN] Gravestone documentation

2023-05-03 Thread John de Figueiredo

Dear Luis,I will look for it and send you the link.JohnSent from my iPhoneOn May 3, 2023, at 12:39 AM, 'Luis Dias' via Goa-Research-Net wrote:I tried searching online for the link (gravestones in Goa) but couldn't find anything.Please do share if possible.Best wishes,Luis _Dr. Luis Francisco DiasCasa da MoedaNear Head Post OfficePanaji, Goa - 403001INDIATel: (+91) 9011051950http://luisdias.wordpress.comhttp://www.childsplayindia.org

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 23:24:07 GMT+5:30, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net wrote:

Dear John,It is true, even the graves need archival care and curation. Or another resource lost forever.J. A. Ismael Gracias was I believe the first director of the Central Library in Goa. It would have been good if there had been some nod to this luminary. Warm wishes,Selma

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 18:27:45 BST, John de Figueiredo wrote:

Even the gravestones are in bad shape and poorly kept. It was a pity to see how the gravestones in the churches in Old Goa are worn out with people stepping on them.By the way we have a complete record of all gravestones in Goa with their names, inscriptions, etc. done by Ricardo Micael Teles, who was a member of the Comissão Permanente de Arqueologia. They are published in the Oriente Português that was the journal of the Comissão. Several issues of this journal are available online.The Comissão was chaired by J. A. Ismael Gracias, and then by A. B. de Bragança Pereira and did a fabulous job in the study of the history of Goa.. Then one day Dr. Bragança Pereira returned from vacation and discovered that the Comissão had been abolished by Governor Quintanilha. The work of the Comissão was free labor and cost nothing to the Government or to the tax payer.Those days are gone. Now, with rare exceptions, the relics of our history and culture are disappearing. This is a “dor da alma”.John M. de Figueiredo Sent from my iPhoneOn May 2, 2023, at 12:34 PM, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net wrote:I thought I'd just share this with members. If you don't want to spend time at the Goa Archives, you can find a lot of documentation on Goan gravestones. Last year I visited several cemeteries and collected several relevant birth and death records as well as biography at times. To give you an idea of the extent of biography available, I'm attaching a gravestone photo. Here you will not come across a single surly clerk, but just the peace and quiet of the dead.Take care,Selma

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