[Goanet]RE: An Essay on Uruguay by Alfredo de Mello.

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Gabriel, "para ingles ver" is a frequently used expression in Portuguese 
language (both in Brasil and in Portugal) but of difficult translation because 
its meaning can be different from situation to situation. 

It can be used if you have something that you want to show off with. 
Something (often of little value) that you want to use to boast or to make a 
good impression.

I do believe that was the context Sergio Mascarenhas used it.

However, in your context, it may mean that the Brazilians were doing good work 
because they were being supervised by the English? I do not know, but maybe, 
but that is not the usual meaning people use that expression for.

You are right, the British were involved in building railways throughout the 
world and extensively in Africa and Asia. They built the railway structure of 
many African countries, including Mozambique. They also brought lots of British 
companies to Mozambique in order to supply raw materials for their railway 
systems. Lots of our Goans were employed in those companies. Their commitment 
and strong involvement in Mozambique (which started, I believe, with their 
interest for the railway system) probably explains why Mozambique is the only 
British Commonwealth Country which was not a British colony and which does not 
have English as one of the main languages.

Best regards
Paulo Colaco Dias.

> -Original Message-
> From: Gabriel de Figueiredo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 17 February 2005 04:50
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sofia_ Remedios DE FARIA; Susana Sardo;
> Susan Z Andrade; Teotonio SOUSA; Teotonio SOUSA; Fernando COLACO; Tony
> CORREIA AFONSO; Virginia.B.Gomes; Vitorino Pinto; Viviana; Vasco PINHO;
> Pedro do Carmo Costa; Joaquim/Telma CORREIA AFONSO; Peter & Maria D'Souza;
> renebarreto; Rix de Souza; Sergio Mascarenhas; Simon-Joyce FERNANDES;
> Prof. Majid SIDDIQI; Cedric/Marina Menezes; Arun Sinha; Oscar NORONHA;
> Paulo/Bernadette COLACO DIAS.; Joao Paulo Cota; Jorge de Abreu Noronha;
> Jose/Ema COLACO; K. David Jackson; Savio/ Layla; Lourdes Bravo de COSTA;
> Leo XAVIER; Leão FERNANDES; Lynnette SALDANHA; Aurora/Albano Couto; Goa
> Goans; Sergio & Fatima Carvalho; Silvano BARBOSA; goanet@goanet.org; Rajan
> NARAYAN; maria silva; Constantino Xavier; Isabel SantaRita Vaz; Mario
> VIEGAS; Cyril D'Cunha; D._Mendonça; Dolly (Mohini) BACHAN SINGH;
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Francisco Monteiro; Esnestina/Donato CARREIRA
> PASCALE; Fernando Nascimento da Costa; Agnelo-Noemia FERNANDES; Fatima
> GRACIAS; Fernando NORONHA; Francisco Gutemberg Lopes Filho; Bernadette
> Colaco; BERNARD NAZARETH; Dr.Bonifacio Dias; Caetano Loiola PEREIRA; CASA
> DE GOA; Cedric Menezes; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Conrad
> Saldanha; Cecil Pinto; Tony/Marina Correia-Afonso; Arménio_Dias_Carvalho;
> Administrator; Alfred de Tavares; Dra.Belinda FERNANDES; Ana Maria de
> Souza-Goswami; Dacosta Amilcar; Angela Nazareth; Annette GOMES; Ben ANTAO;
> Berardo PINTO PEREIRA
> Cc: Alfredo de MELLO
> Subject: Re: An Essay on Uruguay by Alfredo de Mello.
> 
>  --- FERNANDO DO REGO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > The tramways , waterworks and gas company were all
> owned by the British.
> 
> As an aside to the rather educational article, it
> appears that the British had a hand in installing
> railways throughout most of the world - hence, I
> suppose the Brazilian expression "Para ingles ver",
> meaning (and correct me if I am wrong) "doing work
> because one is being supervised".
> 
> This expression was used in a recent email I think
> from Sergio Mascarenhas, which brought back memories
> of my time with the Brazilians...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Gabriel de Figueiredo.
> Melbourne - Australia

RE: [Goanet]Colonial Powers Duel on Pitch

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

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As I predicted, the best team won.

I never doubted it. Not even for a minute.
Good you saved your money Gabe!

Even according to the British commentators (BBC), the best team was
throughout the game was Portugal. The English players were completely
exhausted in the extra time.

It was a shame it had to be resolved over penalties but even then, it
was a fair result.

Viva Portugal, now in the Semi Finals of Euro 2004.

The English can now sing again their famous song: "Football is coming
home" 

Best regards

Paulo

http://www.euro2004.com

[Goanet]Euro 2004 / England in the quarter finals

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

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As I predicted yesterday, England will play Portugal next Thursday 24th
June 19.45 GMT+1 for the quarter finals of Euro 2004.

The English team beat Croatia today 4-2.
Well done England. 

Today it was good bye to Croatia and Switzerland (who lost against
France).

France will now play against Greece in the quarter finals on Friday 25th
June.

I am afraid England is going to find a difficult task to beat the host
team next Thursday but it sure will be an excellent game.

May the best team win! (i.e. Portugal!!!)

http://www.euro2004.com

Paulo.



-Original Message-
From: www-data [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Goanet
Mail Reformatted
Sent: 21 June 2004 03:39
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Colaco-Dias, Paulo R
Subject: Euro 2004 / Portugal in the quarter finals

- Forwarded message from "Colaco-Dias, Paulo R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-

Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:47:30 +0100
    From: "Colaco-Dias, Paulo R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Portugal is through to the quarter finals of EURO 2004 (The UEFA -
European Football Championship).

The host team lost the first game with Greece but consequently won
against Russia and today against Spain ending up first in group A with 6
points.

They will now play against the runner-up of group B (Which will probably
be England!!!) in the quarter finals of the second most important soccer
tournament in the world and the third most important sporting event in
the world.

The whole country is celebrating.

I am afraid it is adieus to Espana~ !

Next ... England

Paulo.

RE: [Goanet]origin of name carvalho

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

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You mean the meaning of the word Carvalho?

Carvalho definitely means oak tree. Nothing to do with horses...

But you asked the origin of the name and that is a different question. 

As far as I know, most names that come from trees have a Jewish origin:
Ex. Pereira, Carvalho, etc. Of course when applied to Goans, it does not
mean anything like that because, as you must know, the first baptised
Goan Hindus got the name from the priests that first baptised them. But
it will probably mean that the priest that baptised those Goans had a
Jewish origin (Portuguese Jewish converted to Christian).

Best wishes,
Paulo.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Allwyn Carvalho
Sent: 21 June 2004 19:52
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]origin of name carvalho

What is the origin of the Portugese surname "Carvalho"?  I used to think
it came from the 
word for "horse", but I have recently heard that it more probably
originates from the word 
for "oak tree".  Anyone knows for sure?  Thanks in advance.
Allwyn.

RE: [Goanet]Portugal Diary: Praising Porto

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

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>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of >Eustaquio Santimano
>Sent: 17 June 2004 13:04
>To: Goanet Group
>Subject: [Goanet]Portugal Diary: Praising Porto
>
>Portugal Diary: Praising Porto
>
>Porto, 14 June
>Pragmatic Portuguese
>The Portuguese are gracious and welcoming hosts - polite, friendly,  
>courteous, and keen to help foreigners understand their culture and way
of  
>life. They are also a pragmatic people. They have not been swept up in
an  
>emotional frenzy of nationalism just because the tournament is being
held  
>But it is more than this. A Portuguese anthropologist whom I met in a
bar  
>during the England-France game told me that the roots of saudade are
not  
>so much in a longing for the past, but in the fact that Portugal was a

>nation of fishermen before joining the European Union in 1985. It is
the  
>association with the loneliness of life on the seas that shaped the  
>national character. Portugal is the only country whose coastline
touches  
>the Mediterranean and the Atlantic.

I do not know the source of this article but the above claim is false.
Portugal coastline does not touch the Mediterranean Sea at all.
Portugal is known to be a Mediterranean country only because of the
climate (very similar to the climate of the other Mediterranean
neighbour countries). 
As far as I know, both Spain and Morocco coastlines' touch the
Mediterranean and the Atlantic. But definitely not Portugal.

Best regards,
Paulo.

RE: [Goanet]Re (goanet) At Home, in Rome

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

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Yes. Sorry Alfred. Silly me.
Of course the father was Joao IV - the Portuguese king who regained
independence from Spain. Pedro was Catarina's brother and later King of
Portugal after the death of Joao IV. Few years after the death of
Charles II, Catarina returned to Portugal and Pedro was already very old
and Catarina became regent of the throne of Portugal from 1704 to 1705
when she died as regent of Portugal.

Paulo

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Alfred de Tavares
Sent: 16 June 2004 08:04
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Goanet]Re (goanet) At Home, in Rome

>From: "Colaco-Dias, Paulo R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [Goanet]Re (goanet) At Home, in Rome
>Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 17:23:14 +0100
>
>
>Alfred, Catarina de Braganca married Charles II of England. Not Charles
I.
>
You are correct, Paulo, Charle ll it was.
Where I went wrong: Catarina, or Catherine of England, was, from
begining, a 
pawn in
contracting an alliance with England; of great contemporary significance
in 
countering
Spanish and Dutch threats to Portugal and Port interests abroad.

Thus, the negotiations for her marriage to the E. monarch, in fact, had

begun during rhe
reign of Charles l and renewed immediately after restoration.

But the hapless princess, who was replete with virtue and dilligence but
no 
physical charm
was, I am quite certain the daughter of D. Joao lV of Port. not Pedro
lV.

Pls check up, I am doing some work on this period for an opus I have 
underway on Goa.

Sonia, not G, but your cousin, C., comes here Friday.

Love,
Alfred, the prospective historian

RE: [Goanet]Portugal ruled Indian state for 4-1/2 centuries (Washington Times)

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Hi Helga, 

Your mom was right. But it is not only 'large'. It also means ugly, bad and horrible, 
with a vengeance, a monster...

Adamastor was described in "Os Lusiadas" (Camoes, 1512) as a giant monster who was 
himself transformed in the cape of Good Hope, previously also known as Cabo das 
Tormentas (in English: Cape of Storms) (South Africa). He was determined not to let 
anyone round it.

The legend says the monster (Adamastor) would fight vigorously against anyone who 
would dare to round the cape. The fights would be in form of storms. Bartolomeu Dias 
was the first European (Portuguese) who successfully managed to do it in 1488.

In his famous epic, Camoes includes a dialog between Vasco da Gama and the giant 
monster where Adamastor reveals himself as one of the giants of mount Olympus (from 
the ancient Greek Mythology) who was a captain of the sea in the fight against the 
great Jupiter.


49 - Adamastor tells Vasco da Gama about his life

"Mais ia por diante o monstro horrendo 
Dizendo nossos fados, quando alçado 
Lhe disse eu: - Quem és tu? que esse estupendo 
Corpo certo me tem maravilhado.- 
A boca e os olhos negros retorcendo, 
E dando um espantoso e grande brado, 
Me respondeu, com voz pesada e amara, 
Como quem da pergunta lhe pesara: 
  

50 

- "Eu sou aquele oculto e grande Cabo, 
A quem chamais vós outros Tormentório, 
Que nunca a Ptolomeu, Pompônio, Estrabo, 
Plínio, e quantos passaram, fui notório. 
Aqui toda a Africana costa acabo 
Neste meu nunca visto Promontório, 
Que para o Pólo Antarctico se estende, 
A quem vossa ousadia tanto ofende. 
  

51 - 

- "Fui dos filhos aspérrimos da Terra, 
Qual Encélado, Egeu e o Centimano; 
Chamei-me Adamastor, e fui na guerra 
Contra o que vibra os raios de Vulcano; 
Não que pusesse serra sobre serra, 
Mas conquistando as ondas do Oceano, 
Fui capitão do mar, por onde andava 
A armada de Netuno, que eu buscava. 


Source: Os Lusiadas (Camoes, 1512, Canto V).


In general terms, Adamastor refers today to the difficulty in sailing through serious 
storms.

Best wishes, 
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helga do Rosario Gomes
Sent: 04 May 2004 01:02
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Portugal ruled Indian state for 4-1/2 centuries (Washington Times)

What exactly is an Adamastor? A meteorological feature? My mom always used
it to refer to 'large' people so I use it too although I never gave it a
thought until now!
--Helga

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RE: [Goanet]Portugal ruled Indian state for 4-1/2 centuries (Washington Times)

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Jorge, in addition to what you have said, I stopped reading the article
after the second paragraph. It wasn't worthy.

It says in the second paragraph: "Vasco da Gama (1460-1524) was the
first European to round Africa's Cape of Good Hope". 

Everyone knows that the first European to round the cape of Good Hope
(or cabo das tormentas like Camoes calls it) was Bartolomeu Dias in
1488.

Another inaccurate, cheap and quick and of the lowest quality article.

Best regards.
Paulo Colaco Dias.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha
Sent: 30 April 2004 18:23
To: Goanet
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Portugal ruled Indian state for 4-1/2 centuries
(Washington Times)

Frederick Noronha (FN) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote on Sunday, April 25, 2004 8:08 PM:


> 
>
> Portugal ruled Indian state for 4-1/2 centuries
>
> From combined dispatches
>
>
> On his last voyage to India, da Gama died of illness on Christmas Eve
1524,
> and his remains were returned to Portugal for burial.
>

Vasco da Gama did not die . He ruled the
Portuguese "Estado da India" as Viceroy from Sept. 24 to Dec. 24, 1524.
Although the government services of the "Estado da India" functioned in
the
city of Goa (presently Old Goa), the capital of the "Estado" was in
Cochin.
da Gama died and was buried in Cochin and his remains were later removed
to
Lisbon. The capital of the "Estado da India" was officially transferred
from
Cochin to Old Goa in 1530.


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RE: [Goanet]Portugal: how to get studies accepted by major

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Constantino Xavier
Sent: 01 April 2004 11:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Portugal: how to get studies accepted by major

>So the question arises: Mr. X being a Goan doctor, who has studied
Medicine 
>in India, and currently practicing in Portugal (having passed the 
>recognition criteria etc.), will he:
>a) have to abey by the same process/rules to practice in France (other
EU 
>country) as a Goan who is applying directly from Goa?
>b) have an easier process of acceptance/recognition/allowance to
practice, 
>due to his previous recognition in Portugal or another EU-country?
>
>Please clarify.
>

Ola' Constantino, as you must know, any medicine doctor that wants to
practice in a EU country will require to be registered with the General
Medical Council of that country (Ordem dos Medicos in Portugal).

They cannot work in that country until they are registered with that
country's Medical Council. Example: Suppose a British doctor moves to
Portugal. He will not be allowed to practice medicine in Portugal until
he is properly registered with Ordem dos Medicos (Portuguese Medical
Council).
Agree?

The requirements for registration in any medical council will vary from
country to country.

The current EU legislation is very clear in the sense that any EU
graduate will be allowed to practice anywhere in the EU, so registration
is straightforward. However, Goan graduated doctors that practice in
Portugal are not EU graduates and, therefore, the current EU legislation
does not apply to them. It will depend from country to country if they
will be exempted of further equivalence exams or not.

I do not know what is the current situation in the UK, but few years
back, a Goan graduated doctor who was previously practicing in Portugal
would have to answer the normal equivalence exams in the UK if he/she
wanted to practice in the UK (regardless of the fact he/she was already
legally practicing in Portugal). I am not sure if that is now more
relaxed, but the important fact is that the EC law recognises EC
degrees. So, if you have a EC degree, your degree is indeed recognised
everywhere in the EC. But if not, then it depends on each country's
interpretation of the law of free circulation of money, persons and
goods ... (the legislation is not so clear about that case).

Best wishes, 
Paulo.


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RE: [Goanet]Portugal: how to get studies accepted by major universities?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

>Constantino Xavier wrote:
>
>PS: Portugal being a member of the EU and generally participating in
all 
>academic and research cooperation networks, once you're in Portugal,
there 
>is no major obstacle to mobility to their EU countries, provided you
get a 
>place...
>

Hi Constantino, that is not absolutely true. Lets take the case of
medicine, for example. The fact that Portugal might recognise the
Medicine degree from the Goa University and lets suppose a Goan doctor
gets his degree recognised in Portugal, that does not necessarily mean
that he/she can then practice anywhere in the European Union. What is
important is the primary medicine qualification - the first University
degree in medicine (MB BS in Goa). The fact that a Goan doctor managed
to get his/her MB BS from Goa recognised in Portugal (I suspect he/she
is required to answer a few exams) does not necessarily mean that he/she
can then practice in other countries of the European Union. If he/she
then wishes to move to other countries of the EU, he/she will still have
to apply to the other countries General Medical Council which will take
into consideration his/her primary qualification from Goa and not the
fact that his/her degree his accepted and recognised in Portugal.

The only exception is if he/she re-qualifies and acquires another
medicine degree from a University from a European Union country. In that
case, then he/she will be able to work anywhere in the European Union.

Best wishes, 
Paulo.


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RE: [Goanet]Installation of the new Archbishop

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

There is nothing to be constrained about p. Joaquim.
I think everyone is thankful to you. It is absolutely important to
demand more accuracy and more detail on what gets printed anywhere else
in the world.

I wish everyone would do it like you did. That would definitely raise
the quality of the articles we read. 

I for one very much appreciate your corrections and if I was the writer,
I would welcome your corrections because that is the only way we all
learn. 

Best wishes, 
Paulo.

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RE: [Goanet]RE: bharatis

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Gilbert, I think you are mistaken. Read the news again...

The five suspects arrested were three Moroccan and two Indian nationals.

Two other Spanish citizens of Indian descent were also being questioned.

Best regards, 
Paulo.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of gilbert menezes
Sent: 21 March 2004 16:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]RE: bharatis


They weren't bharatis, but Spaniards of Bharati origin--similar to 
you--foreign nationality of bharati origin.  Poor guys, so many years in

jail just for selling illegal SIM cards.
ole!   regards, Gilbert.

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RE: [Goanet]Translation for Mr. Nair.

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Gabe, I really think you should say that privately!...

 :-))

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Gabe Menezes
Sent: 18 March 2004 10:06
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Translation for Mr. Nair.

Every one it seems it disinclined to translate, for Mr. Nair. Poor chap.
To
put him out of his misery :-


Eu te amo muito muito.


Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.


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RE: [Goanet]Re: Portuguese translation -- 100x , 1000x

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

I have to bring to your attention that I am afraid your revised version "tantas vezes 
que for necessário" is still bad and incorrect Portuguese.

You probably mean "tantas vezes quantas for necessário". 

Or was this a typo as well?
Portuguese is not an easy language, especially if it in not your first language. I 
also have many problems with my English because it is not my first language.

For your information, I have also sent my translation privately to Fred with three 
different versions, depending on the level of respect between son and mother. So, I 
did contribute to Fred directly. I thought it would be of no interest to Goanet. But 
if you really want to read my version that I sent to Fred last week, here it is.

There are several options and it all depends on the context of the rest of the speech 
and the levels of respect used in the rest of the speech. 

As you must know, in Portuguese, there are different levels of respect. And that is 
why Portuguese is a difficult language.

For example, the normal/common case is where the mother calls the son by "Tu" (less 
respect) and the son addresses the mother by "a mãe" (more respect). Accordingly, the 
verb changes as well:
Version 1 ** 
-Ramesh, é tudo por tua culpa. Não devias ter-te casado com aquela mulher. Ela era uma 
má esposa e uma mãe inútil. E agora, a Tara está a crescer exactamente como ela.

-Por favor não diga isso mãe.

-Digo e repito, a Tara é exactamente como a mãe dela.
*


Another version can be written when both mother and son address each other with the 
maximum respect: (this is a more polite Portuguese where more respect is used). This 
version is usually employed by the upper class Portuguese.
Version 2 ** 
-Ramesh, é tudo por sua culpa. Não devia ter-se casado com aquela mulher. Ela era uma 
má esposa e uma mãe inútil. E agora, a Tara está a crescer exactamente como ela.

-Por favor não diga isso mãe.

-Digo e repito, a Tara é exactamente como a mãe dela.
*


A third version can be written when both mother and son address each other informally 
and with minimum level of respect:
Version 3 ** 
-Ramesh, é tudo por tua culpa. Não devias ter-te casado com aquela mulher. Ela era uma 
má esposa e uma mãe inútil. E agora, a Tara está a crescer exactamente como ela.

-Por favor não digas isso mãe.

-Digo e repito, a Tara é exactamente como a mãe dela.
*

Best regards, 
Paulo Colaco Dias.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teotonio R. de Souza
Sent: 07 March 2004 14:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Re: Portuguese translation -- 100x , 1000x

We have some strange fault-finders on goanet,  with nothing of their
own to contribute! It is easy to cast stones!

I am glad my friends J. Loiola Pereira and Jorge Abreu are a redeeming
feature.

One could continue to question any good translation! A free translation of
spoken" type could produce many variants.

I would retain my translation as it is, excepting  an extra "s" (in

*devias*) and extra "seja" in the last line (see below in square brackets).

These had been deleted in my private message to Fredrick, but somehow

remained on the draft that went to goanet.

For me, "hundred times, or thousand times" continue to mean "as many times..
", and Loiola Pereira's (cem vezes) or Jorge Abreu's (mil vezes) are as good

as my "tantas vezes que for necessário".

Teotonio R. de Souza

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RE: [Goanet]Re:Translation into Portuguese

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

You're half way there.
Now you just need someone who can revise and correct the Portuguese version.
:-)
But then, for Goan standards, that will be fine!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teotonio R. de Souza
Sent: 04 March 2004 13:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Re:Translation into Portuguese

[Ramesh, é inteiramente culpa sua. Não devias ter casado com aquela mulher.
Ela era uma má esposa e uma mãe inútil. Tara está agora a crescer
exactamente como ela.]

 

"Please don't say that, mother."

[Por favor mãe, não diga isso]

 

"I will say it a hundred times- Tara is just like her mother."

[Direi tantas vezes que seja for necessário - Tara é tal e qual a sua mãe]

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RE: [Goanet]Loot & plunder! My reply

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Fred, a "more balanced" view according to you is to escape reality.

People in Goa are scared of talking about the truth and constantly live
in the past as though they still fear the return of the Portuguese. I am
afraid you are not an exception.

I believe you mentioned my name because of the recent article I have
written about the Portuguese Nationality Law, where I used the terms
"Indian invasion" as opposed to "liberation", violation of International
law by India, aggression, UN Resolutions' violation, etc., etc.
All I have written is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
truth.

I will not write lies in order to please you or anybody else in Goa. I
hope that is clear. The terms I use in my writings are the proper
internationally recognised terms and, really, I could not care less if
you or any other editor in Goa thinks I do not express a "balanced
view". I express the view which is politically, historically and legally
correct. As I said before, the term "liberation" does not have legal
status. If you expect me to use the term "liberation", then I can tell
you right now that will never happen.

What I write is based on facts, history and the truth. I am glad that my
articles on Portuguese nationality have been explaining a lot about what
some Goans never ever before understood or were told about. Literally
hundreds of Goans have written to me expressing they were not aware of
the situation.  As Rui rightly said, Goans have been brainwashed
completely after 1961. 
I am glad some of them are finally learning the facts.

If you do not agree you are free to express it and argue with other
facts in this forum or anywhere else.

It is a fact that Goan articles are heavily biased and anti-Portuguese.
It is journalists like you that take advantage of the ignorance of the
majority of Goans to keep the anti-Portuguese feelings alive. 

In a Goan society that still gives great amounts of benefits to freedom
fighters (even after 43 years of freedom), it is very convenient to keep
anti-Portuguese sentiments very much alive. I don't blame you.  You have
been brainwashed just like the majority, and, therefore, that comes
natural to you.

By the way, I believe 43 years are just about two full generations. Not
"hardly one generation" like you said. 

Just remember to be happy too!

Best, 
Paulo Colaco Dias.



>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of >Frederick Noronha (FN)
>Sent: 04 March 2004 09:24
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [Goanet]Loot & plunder! My reply
>
>PS: Instead of cursing the darkness, light a candle. If anyone,
including 
>Paulo, is willing to do a "more balanced" article on the passports
issue, 
>we would be more than willing to have it published here in Goa.
>

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RE: [Goanet]Re: Crime rings sels fake Portuguese Passports

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Frank, 

Firstly, Abu Salem was in possession of a false Portuguese passport that
he must have purchased from a network of international organised crime.
It was not a legitimate passport but a forged one. So, I believe you are
misinformed to say the least. But then, I do not blame you. Very
recently, articles have been published in the Goan press with this
incorrect and inaccurate information, so you probably learned it from
them and assumed it was true.

About your long story, I understand you are disappointed about your
process but, for your information, up until very recently (15 Jan 2004)
you were not eligible to get your Portuguese citizenship re-instated.
This is because you voluntarily acquired Australian citizenship in 1979.
When you became an Australian citizen in 1979, you did it voluntarily
and you effectively lost your Portuguese citizenship because up until
3rd October 1981 Portugal did not allow dual nationality. I bet you did
not know that, did you?

Luckily for you, there is a new law from 15th Jan 2004 which will allow
you to get your Portuguese citizenship back even if you acquired another
citizenship before 1981 on a voluntarily basis. But you still have to
provide residence certificates, police clearance and all documents you
were asked for.

I don't think there is anything ludicrous about what you have been asked
to do. Nor I think it is harassment. It is your option. You either
accept it or you don't. You are Australian anyway. You have many options
open. Also, you have not maintained your Portuguese citizenship for more
than 40 years. What is the hurry now? What made you change your mind?

What I find completely unacceptable are the hundreds of false
applications that get through. The only way to end that is to be
stricter in the acceptance/application process. And I am sure it is
going to get even stricter in order to filter the legitimate ones only.

Frank, Portugal does not have an extradition treaty with India. Possibly
because of the death penalty still enforced in India. So India cannot
demand extradition. Abu Salem has committed crimes in Portugal, namely
by being found in possession of false documents and other things. He
will first serve his sentence in Portugal because the crimes were
committed in Portugal. Doesn't that make sense to you? After he serves
his sentence, I think the Portuguese government will probably request
guarantees from India that India will not impose the death penalty on
him and only after that he will be deported to India (not extradited but
deported.). This is what I read some months ago. I do not know if it
still stands, but I think so.

Best regards, 
Paulo.


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RE: [Goanet]linking Portuguese language and nationality - a good idea?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Hey Daryl, how are you? 

I think there is some kind of misunderstanding on your statements.

There are several ways to acquire Portuguese citizenship. 

1. The easiest to understand is the acquisition of Portuguese citizenship by virtue of 
blood relation - Jus Sanguinis - (through your mother or father who *must* be 
registered Portuguese citizens):
This is how our Goans born after 1961 are eligible - by Jus Sanguinis. As you must 
know, full Portuguese citizenship rights have been granted to Goans since around 1757, 
by a Royal Decree signed by King José I. All people from Estado da India Portuguesa 
(EIP) comprising Goa, Damão, Diu, Dadra and Nagar Aveli, were granted Portuguese 
Citizenship, and equal status under the law, with the Metropolitan Portuguese. This is 
commonly known as Jus Solis - citizenship by right of birthplace. Portugal is known to 
be unique in this decision. Neither the French, nor the British, nor the Dutch did 
that.
In 1961, the Estado da India Portuguesa (EIP) was a Portuguese province and recognized 
officially and internationally (*by UN treaties which even the Indian Union has 
officially signed and acknowledged*) as integrant part of territorial continental 
Portugal. The people from EIP obviously enjoyed full Portuguese citizenship rights as 
Jus Solis (right of birthplace). In the same way Portuguese birth records were 
recorded in birth registry offices in Lisbon, Porto, Coimbra, Faro, etc., also 
Portuguese birth records were obviously recorded in Panjim, Margao, Mapuca, etc., etc. 
Again, EIP was indeed internationally recognized as part integrant of continental 
Portugal so, records were kept there and there was no reason to send them to Lisbon. 

In 1975, a new democratic Portugal re-established diplomatic relations with the Indian 
Union, withdrew all international disputes with India in the UN and acknowledged and 
recognized the annexation of the EIP by India, backdating it to 19 Dec 1961. It was 
then necessary to legislate what would be the future of those who were born Portuguese 
citizens in the EIP (all those born before 19 Dec 1961 in the EIP). As you must know, 
even though the Indian invasion of EIP was not officially recognized by international 
law up until 1975, immediately after 1961, India forced everyone to take Indian 
Citizenship if they wanted to remain living and working in the EIP or register as 
foreigners and apply for periodical visas, residence permits, police reports and 
clearance, etc. in their own home land. Some challenged the legitimacy of that law and 
you are probably aware of the famous case of Fr. Mons. Francisco Monteiro, a man of 
principles, from Candolim who was arrested and suffered torture because he refused to 
take Indian citizenship. A considerable amount of our Goans left and were welcomed in 
Portugal but those who remained in the EIP were typically forced to acquire Indian 
Citizenship. Portugal was aware that this was happening. The Portuguese government 
even paid for lawyers including the defense lawyer for Fr. Monteiro. Some cases were 
even addressed by the Geneva Convention and international courts of law, but India was 
decided to have the last say in the matter and gradually the issue died. 
So, this is to say that in 1975, when Portugal issued a change in the Portuguese 
Nationality Law, the people from EIP were assumed by Portugal to have acquired Indian 
citizenship on a non-voluntary basis, i.e., it was assumed they were forced by the 
Indian Union to acquire Indian citizenship in order to remain free of problems in 
their own homeland. 

In a genuine attempt to protect the interests of people from the EIP who might wish to 
remain Portuguese by their Jus Solis status (right of birth place), the Portuguese law 
allowed them to retain their full citizenship rights ad eternum (*indefinitely*). What 
this means is that the people from EIP who were born Portuguese citizens (before 19 
Dec 1961) never lost their Portuguese citizenship rights!!! The Portuguese nationality 
law granted them full citizenship rights indefinitely. 
The only problem was that the birth records were left in the EIP!!! This is why our 
Goans need to register in Portugal today. Therefore, it is wrong to say those born 
before 1961 are acquiring Portuguese citizenship. In effect, they are not. Those born 
before 1961 in the EIP are simply registering in Portugal their officially declaration 
that they wish to remain Portuguese citizens after the events of 1961. The Portuguese 
law still recognizes them the right to full citizenship by Jus Solis (birthplace in 
EIP) but there are no records of their existence in Portugal (the records were left in 
the EIP). You can, however, say that the children (born anywhere after 1961) of this 
people can apply for Portuguese citizenship and, if granted, they will have acquired 
Portuguese citizenship by virtue of blood relation (Jus Sanguinis).
As far as I know, no country in the world is known to impo

RE: [Goanet]Portuguese Nationality: Dream or Nightmare?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

(Continuation from my previous post.)
My replies are in between the issues posted by Fred.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Frederick Noronha (FN)
Sent: 16 February 2004 23:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Goanet]Portuguese Nationality: Dream or Nightmare?

I'm just trying to put the issue in context...

Mario de Queiroz's and Ana Cristina Pereira's articles raise some
interesting issues. Instead of tripping up over the smaller issues,
could we
look at whether:

(i) Portuguese passports can really be "sold"?
Paulo> There have been a couple of Portuguese consulates and/or
embassies which have suffered break-ins and, as a result, Portuguese
Bilhetes de Identidade (ID cards which can be used as travelling
documents and proof of Portuguese citizenship almost anywhere in Europe)
and Portuguese passports have been stolen. These are all accounted for
and its serial numbers recorded. European airports and passport control
offices have been notified and are constantly on the lookout for false
Portuguese ID cards. There is an European police force and a special
police of the Schengen States and both are fully aware of these false
documents and serial numbers. People using Heathrow and Gatwick airports
in London and travelling with a Portuguese ID Card get constantly
stopped and checked for the authenticity of the document. Airport
control officers and inspectors are well aware of the range of serial
numbers of the stolen documents. Every Portuguese citizen travelling in
and out of Portugal gets its ID card number typed in the computer at the
passport control for this reason. The problem is that you can also
travel by car within continental European Union and passport controls do
not exist, therefore, once you enter one continental European Union
country (say Germany, for example), you can travel to all others without
your passport or ID card being requested. And that is how people like
Abu Salem are suspected to have entered Portugal.

(ii) Such passports have be sold also the "organised crime rings"?
(iii) The passports are then resold by mafias?
Paulo> Yes. For your information, false European passports are available
to those who are prepared to pay large amounts of money. It is known
that British and French tourists have been killed abroad so that their
passports could be sold.
Fraud and crime is today a big problem for any country. This does not
affect Portugal alone but also several other European Union countries,
Britain, France, Spain, Italy and Greece included. Usually, sooner or
later, all this cases are caught and brought to justice. All documents
have a serial number and since 2000, all European Union passports are
standardised and machine readable. It is extremely easy to detect a
false passport. The computer will have a record of all stolen documents
or those registered as lost. People found in possession of these
documents are immediately arrested, just like what happened to Abu Salem
in Lisbon. Few years back, a person who purchased a false Portuguese
passport was caught when trying to revalidate the same in the Portuguese
consulate in London. As I said, by luck, some people might get away with
fraud for few years but it is not a permanent thing and sooner or later
they will fall into serious trouble. Due to the sophisticated
information technology today, it is just not possible to get away with
it and at the most, it is a short term fraud... 


(iv) Some such passports have reached Pakistanis, Sri Lankans,
Bangladeshis?
Paulo> Probably. I found some North Indians in the roads of Paris
selling French souvenirs by the Eiffel Tower. My wife was trying to get
some souvenirs at cheaper prices from them and by speaking Hindi with
them managed to get their trust. It was then that they told us they were
in possession of false Portuguese ID cards and they had entered Europe
through Poland and Germany. They even asked us how was life in London
since they were considering moving to London! We strongly advised them
not to attempt it because of the risks of British extremely strict
passport controls.

(v) Narana Coissoro has been rightly quoted saying that the crime ring
sells
these documents for "between 1,240 and 1,860 dollars".
Paulo> Quite possible. In the west, that is not a lot of money.

(vi) Portuguese authorities admit that the "racket continues"
(vii) The official view is that "sales of Portuguese nationality have
become
a lucrative business" for crime rings.
(viii) Since Portugual joined the EU, applications have soared.
(ix) Of late, an increasing number of "usurpation of identity" have
begun.
(x) The Portuguese police estimate that 15,000 people from India have
applied for Portuguese citizenship since 1994, and less than half did so
on
the basis of genuine documents.

Paulo> Yes. The corruption in India and in Goa is so big that people
have been successful purchasing birth certificates from our own Goans,
some of them even deceased alrea

RE: [Goanet]Portuguese Nationality: Dream or Nightmare?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Fred, as far as I am concerned, the reputation of a newspaper or any
other news media is measured by the articles and views it publishes and
by the consequent opinion of the public in general about the articles
they read. 

Isn't it like that in Goa?

If the IPS edited and published Queiroz's inaccurate article, that fact
will definitely account for negative reputation for both Queiroz and the
IPS. But that negative reputation will only be perceived by those who
can tell the difference.

It is not a question of being too serious like you accuse me to be. It
is a question of requesting accuracy, something most people definitely
lack! And yes Fred, I am afraid many of the articles forwarded by you
from several sources - even international ones - (and circulated on
Goanet and Goanews) are really third rate! There is no doubt about it!
In many cases they have contributed to wrong perceptions and wrong
learning and I am sure that in most cases, those who know the difference
do not bother to engage in critique, because it is usually a waste of
time due to the fact that hardly anybody in Goa gives any value to find
out the truth. But that is how one starts spreading rumours and false
perceptions: By publishing an inaccurate article. Or by editing and
allowing an article which contains no factual validation to be
published. And I am afraid that is very common in the Goan press. Also,
you will find that articles quickly circulate in a loop of publications
in Goa.
Something that gets published today in a Goan newspaper will be
forwarded to a considerable amount of other sources of information and
news databases and the internet. If the original article is inaccurate,
then those inaccuracies are multiplied and increased in an
uncontrollable way. Please tell me honestly if you disagree.

The press, because of its enormous influential power over a multitude of
different people, more than anything else, *must* be accurate!
Otherwise, it loses reputation amongst those who can tell the
difference, and contributes with wrong influence and wrong learning to
those who cannot. Unfortunately, those who cannot tell the difference
are usually much larger in number. And that is the reason why some
papers survive and/or increase revenue in direct proportion to the
number of inflationary and interesting (but not necessarily accurate)
news it publishes.

I have already emailed the IPS with my analysis. If they are as good as
you think they are, hopefully they will acknowledge my email and accept
the mistake just like Ana Cristina Pereira acknowledged in person to
Constantino. 

About the fact that some of your colleagues complain that their articles
are edited in India in a way they didn't intend to write also makes
perfect sense to me. All I want to ask is if that is not a
characteristic of third rate editing/publishing. Isn't it? Please note I
am referring a worldwide editors, not Indian only. If editors are
allowed to change original articles to satisfy the requirements of their
own agenda (being increased profit margins through increased sales or
selected political and social views), without the knowledge or
acceptance of the original writers, isn't that something wrong to do?
Especially if these unexpected editions are based on inaccuracies. 

This email is becoming too large and if I continue, it will probably be
caught up by the Goanet filters so I will reply to your issues in the
next email.

(To be continued)

Best regards,
Paulo Colaco Dias.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Frederick Noronha (FN)
Sent: 16 February 2004 23:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Goanet]Portuguese Nationality: Dream or Nightmare?

Looks like any criticism of Portugal -- however oblique -- is taken 
seriously, too seriously, by some on this fora. 

I am not surprised that Paulo has not heard of the Inter Press Service, 
but his lack of knowledge doesn't in itself reflect on the news service.

It would perhaps be an educative experience to look at the rationale
with 
which this Rome-headquartered news-agency was set up, how it is
different 
from the mainstream Western agencies, etc. 

As a journalist working out of the Third World (this term doesn't have 
negative connotations here, unlike what some believe that Third World = 
Third Rate...) the perspective of IPS and the stories it carried, 
together with the background in explanation, made a lot of sense to me. 
No wonder that when on scholarship in West Berlin in 1990, the 
teleprinter-photocopied blurred pages of IPS which the Internationales 
Institut fur Journalismus then at BudapesterstraBe would be the first
one 
would look at, in prefernce to the other Euro and British publications 
the institute subscribed to.

Having said that, there are obvious errors in the report, as pointed
out. 
The process of editing international stories for international
audiences, 
is fraught with errors, given that international editors don't quite 

RE: [Goanet]Portuguese Nationality: Dream or Nightmare?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Dear Constantino
*
Regarding:
PORTUGAL-INDIA:Crime Rings Sell Fake Portuguese Passports
   By Mario de Queiroz on 12/02/2004 23:23:02 GMT
http://www.ips.org/ 
LISBON, Feb 12 (IPS) - A Portuguese official thought he was seeing things 
**

Indeed this is a typical example of an inaccurate article allowed to be published. It 
says a lot about this publication IPS - Inter Press Service!
How this article was published without any sort of factual validation, only God 
knows... Was it published in "Herald" in Goa as well

Who is this Mario de Queiroz? His translation and interpretation of the original 
article from the Portuguese daily Publico is so bad that I am completely speechless. I 
have never ever witnessed something like this.
It contains several serious misunderstandings. I think they were probably 
unintentional but, nevertheless, truly unbelievable.

Mario de Queiroz not only translated facts wrongly, he also added his own completely 
wrong interpretation of the original article, which I find extremely serious, 
especially because he assumed too much and too wrongly!

The original article can be found at:
http://jornal.publico.pt/2004/02/09/Sociedade/S01.html

Gross misinterpretations in addition to Constantino's list:
===

a. The word "Deputado" for Narana Coisoro' was translated to DEPUTY!!! How ridiculous 
can that be?

b. 11,221 processes are not under investigation, like Queiroz wrongly interpreted, but 
instead are pending confirmation, which is different. Nowhere it is stated that these 
11,221 are under investigation.

c. Based on what can Queiroz assume Teresa Colaco was a lawyer for the former EIP 
(Estado da India Portuguesa) Another wrong interpretation/translation and this one 
a very serious one. It makes my first cousin Teresa Colaco an old lawyer and I do not 
think she appreciated that! Yes, she is a lawyer but not a lawyer from the former EIP 
as she is too young for that and it is absurd that Queiroz could have possibly assumed 
that! From where did he get that information??

d. Portugal long colonial history in India begun in 1510, not 1498!

e. 20 million inhabitants of Portugal's former possessions in India? Did Queiroz 
include Bombay I think he did! And even so, I do not think Bombay had so many 
people in 1642, when it was given to the English as dowry to Charles II when he 
married the Portuguese princess Catarina de Braganca. It can only be another 
ridiculous gross mistake!

And this was actually published? Would you even remotely believe
What a good laugh! And what a bad reputation for IPS! No wonder I never heard of it!

Best regards, 
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Constantino Xavier
Sent: 15 February 2004 14:13
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Portuguese Nationality: Dream or Nightmare?

I promised myself not to write on this issue on this Goanet forum, but now I 
feel forced to, after I read the low-profile and inaccurate article 
published in todays edition of HERALD (15/2/2004), by Mário de Queiroz: 
"Crime ring sell fake Portuguese passports".

This article is nothing else than a rewriting of Ana Cristina Pereira's 
investigation published last Monday, in Portugal's main serious daily paper 
"Publico" with the title "Nacionalidade Portuguesa Tornou-se Negócio 
Lucrativo no Antigo Estado da Índia" (Portuguese Nationality turns into a 
lucrative business in Former Portuguese India).

On the same day I had written a letter to the journalist and to the director 
of the publication (José Manuel Fernandes) commenting on the mistakes and 
imprecisive information it gave (example: Goa is referred to as a city). I 
later discussed this issue personnally with the journalist and she was keen 
in having more information, which I forwarded. Also, Jorge de Abreu Noronha, 
wrote a comment on the issue, which was published in a "Portuguese 
Nationality Special" on my website http://www.supergoa.com

Now, it's extraordinary to see how Mario de Queiroz has rewritten the 
article, even though citing once his source, and how other mistakes and 
false informations have been included:

>>"Among the bearers of adulterated Portuguese passports -- which differ 
>>from fake ones in that the document is authentic although the 
>>information it contains is not -- are alleged Indian terrorists Abu 
>>Salem and Masood Azad, who were captured in Lisbon in 2002. Neither 
>>had any family relations in
the former PSI."
COMMENT: This is totally unproven. These alleged terrorists have most probably 
acquired portuguese nationality through other ways: thousands of portuguese passports 
were stolen inbetween 1995 and 2000 from several portuguese embassies around the 
world, including Pakistan.

>>"Portuguese is the mother tongue of 90 percent of Indians living in 
>>Portugal."
COMMENT: Portuguese is SPOKEN

RE: [Goanet]Marlon's posting on Anjediva Island Trip - My Comments

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Filomena, as a Christian I am particularly concerned about what is
happening in India and what can possibly happen in Goa one day in the
future ...

The problems are escalating day by day and it is getting worse day by
day.

Anybody heard of what has recently happened in the BJP-ruled State of
Madhya Pradesh with the full knowledge and sanction from the BJP
Government at the Center and State? I received a shocking email dated
Jan 2004, which I am still not sure if it is true or not.

About persecution of Christians in India, you can read more on:
http://www.geocities.com/christbugle2000/persec1.htm

Best,
Paulo.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Filomena Giese
Sent: quinta-feira, 29 de Janeiro de 2004 7:36
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Marlon's posting on Anjediva Island Trip - My
Comments

Dear Joe,
I'm glad you brought our attention to the website that
seems to be the TGF of Jose Colaco.
I certainly think that some arrangements could be made
for those who want to visit the Church.  However, to
link all this business of the Navy closing the place
to visitors is not an Indian plot against Goa and
Goans as TGF seems to be saying.  I disagree with the
inflammatory language on this website.  One would
think from the language that there is absolutely no
religious freedom in India just because this
particular church has become part of Navy territory.  
I'm sure a way can be found to resolve the issue of
getting permission for a few visitors every year.  
You have the maturity to help get this resolved in an
amicable way.
Filomena


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[Goanet]About time!

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Fred: That is a serious accusation and I sincerely do not recall using any serious 
non-acceptable name calling to my standards. At the most I used the words "frustrated" 
and "twotone", none of them are included in my category of "name calling". People have 
to answer for their actions and we live in a democratic world, don't we? Or did you 
decide to impersonate Salazar on Goanet?

You are falsely accusing me of resorting to name-calling which I disagree. 

Anyway, if you feel happy rejecting and approving other people's posts and have fun 
with it, please continue. So did Salazar, but that is another story.

Also, crimes of violation of copyright law have been committed and totally ignored by 
Goanet administrators, despite my registered complaints. 

For the record, in the past, the words "dukor", "crab", "amateur", etc. have been used 
and abused by your same protégé. Why do I feel you suffer from the problem of double 
standards? 

And you have the courage to say I am abusing others? Where?
What about the abuse committed by copying my own words and translate them to English 
and post them to GoaNet without my knowledge and consent, in a period of time when I 
wasn't even subscribed to Goanet? What about that?
Isn't that an abuse? Isn't that a violation of international copyright law?

Perhaps I could hear the opinion of the other administrators as well. That would help 
me understand where was my "name calling" and if my accusation of abuse is justified.

Fred, it is about time someone tells you off about your behaviour towards Bernado. 
What about your own accusations of Bernado's false identity and your speculations of 
his place of residence? If you are not sure, why do you constantly accuse him of using 
a false identity? He has clearly indicated several times he lives in Macau but you 
still attack him about his place of residence and about his identity. Does it look 
good on your part, considering you are a Goanet Administrator? How will you feel when 
you finally meet him and find out he is a real person? How do you think he feels each 
time you downgrade him? And you have done it so often that you don't even know anymore 
that you are doing it. I cannot wait for the day you find out you were wrong all 
along. That is the day when I hope you will have the decency to present your 
resignation from your Goanet Administrator post for your most disgraceful *** ABUSE 
*** and undeserved attacks on a person who has the courage to speak out what he really 
thinks. 

Until then, have all the fun you want and be happy!

Paulo Colaco Dias.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederick Noronha (FN)
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 9:39 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet]DOUBLE STANDARDS


On Mon, 19 Jan 2004, Paulo Colaco Dias wrote:

> Few days after, the same "protégé" claimed there are people writing in
> Portuguese on GoaNet... It is indeed sad. Well at least I have a single tone
> and what I write in Portuguese is exactly the same as what I write in
> English!
> 
> I truly believe this is shameful behaviour from Goanet admin and wanted to
> make sure this is registered here.
> 
> What are you going to do Fred? Reject this post too?
> 
> Paulo Colaco Dias.

All views *are* welcome on Goanet. But the right to free-speech does not 
imply a right to abuse others and resort to name-calling. If I remember 
rightly, your earlier post erred on this front. If not, please resend it 
and it will promptly be circulated. FN

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[Goanet]Fr. Charles Faleiro - RIP

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Following the excellent post from Oliver Seixas on GoaNet last 7th
January 2004 - a Tribute to Fr. Charles Faleiro,
(http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/2004-January/008810.html )

I was just informed that Fr. Carlos Faleiro (from Borda, Margao) passed
away in Toronto, Canada, yesterday evening.

He was one of the parish priests of the Paroquia do Cristo Rei in
Mississauga, Toronto, Canada. 
A very active, down to earth and lovely person, Fr. Faleiro will be
enormously missed by his family, his parishioners and his friends.

Fr. Faleiro was in Goa just a couple of months ago where he celebrated
the wedding of one of his nephews and 50 years wedding anniversary of
his brother Adv. Lourenco Faleiro (Borda, Margao). 

He recently celebrated (early this month) 50 years of priesthood (what a
wonderful achievement) and I am sure he is already resting in piece
in the company of the Lord. We should be happy he is no longer suffering
and is now enjoying eternal life.

There will be a mass for him in Margao tomorrow. More information will
be given in Goan newspapers.

RIP

Paulo Colaco Dias.

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RE: [Goanet]RE: Directory of Goans in Delhi

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

I think George completely missed the point Rui Collaco was trying to
express.

Goans in Portugal have never been considered a minority. They are
Portuguese from Goa, just like the Madeirenses are Portuguese from
Madeira and the Acoreanos are Portuguese from Acores and the Alentejanos
are Portuguese from Alentejo, the Minhotos are Portuguese from Minho,
etc, etc. 

So, Goans in Portugal feel a true sense of belonging that cannot be
found anywhere else in the world, except in Goa! I know it might be
difficult to understand but if you take into consideration 451 years of
common history, it is not so hard to understand after all!

They have been always fully integrated in the Portuguese society and
their numbers are in many many tens of thousands, considered to be the
largest Goan Community in the world (living outsise Goa). Not many
people are aware of this (!).

In early 90's I remember reading some reports estimating there were
about 100,000 people in Portugal originating from the Estado da India
Portuguesa, mostly from Goa. Today, the numbers must have increased even
more. But Rui's point is that they really do not feel the need to be
members of an association. Certainly, not in the same way that other
Goans all over the world need. Yes, of course there is a Goan
Association in Portugal, but only a very tiny small number of Goans in
Portugal are actually members of that association. If I am not mistaken,
even less than 10%. And also, it is important to note it is not only an
association of Goans but an Association of people from Goa, Damao and
Diu (Ex-India Portuguesa).
Check: http://www.goacom.com/casa-de-goa

Portugal and the Portuguese African Colonies have probably be the first
countries Goans have ever migrated and the movement started several
centuries ago. Later, a large number also started migrating to the
British African colonies. 

When the Portuguese African colonies were given independence following
the Portuguese revolution of 25 April 1974, large majority of these
Goans ended up in Portugal. The Goans from the British African colonies,
on the other hand, moved to several other countries (Canada, US and UK).

In my experience (having lived in Lisbon-Portugal for more than 20 years
and the also 8 years of my life in London-UK), the Goans in Portugal are
indeed extremely different from the Goans in the UK. The UK is today the
country of the minorities. Goans are, no doubt, considered one of the
many minorities in the UK. There are Goan functions every single
weekend, sometimes more than one at a time. The UK culture is
significantly different from the Portuguese and the reality is that
Goans in the UK never really feel completely at home. I guess the same
must be true in Canada and US as well.
While in Portugal, majority of Goans will feel much more at home and are
fully integrated in the Portuguese society. 

A directory of Goans in Portugal would be useless. But a directory of
Goan businesses would probably be useful (like George said), like Goan
restaurants, Goan import-exports, Goan businesses, etc.  BTW, I am not
sure about it now but in the 90's, there were much more Goan restaurants
in Portugal than Indian restaurants. Where else in the world will you
find that situation? I really struggle to find a Goan restaurant in
London. And to be honest, till today, I have never found a really good
authentic one! Indians, yes, at every London corner and many of them
really excellent. But Goan restaurants where you can eat a nice Goan
Xacuti, Sarapatel, vindalho, prawn caril, Goan sausages, bebinca, etc.
none whatsoever, nowhere in London!

Best regards,
Paulo Colaco Dias.
London UK

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of George Pinto
Sent: 15 December 2003 03:59
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]RE: Directory of Goans in Delhi

--- Rui Collaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> Now, I fail to see what's the usefulness of a Directory of Goans. 

I am puzzled by the statement above.  Perhaps after living in the USA
for 23 years and belonging
to various professional, cultural, business, social
organizations/associations I take it for
granted that they have directories of members.  These are used for
networking, support,
ideas-exchanges, and various communications.  I would actually be amazed
if a directory was not
available to understand the demographic make-up of the group (regardless
of what group it is) so
that particular ethnic or social or professional, etc. group can be
served.

George 

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RE: [Goanet] What insult to Goans ?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Neal, thanks very much for your reply.

I agree with you in the sense that someone that has been born here in
London and has lived here all life is probably a native of London, but
if he/she is of a foreign origin, he/she is probably not representative
of the "Natives of London" group, and therefore, in order to avoid
arguments and problems, that would not happen in London. 

In London you will also probably find many of those born in London of
foreign origin will not say they are natives of London but that's
another story and has very much to do with the English culture and
English way of life that makes foreigners feel always out of place,
especially our Goans.

But in all fairness, I think we are missing the point here.
The challenge Eddie took (according to his own words) was to find a
photograph with a foreigner and a label saying "NATIVE OF LONDON".

He gave us a link but I could not find such label anywhere.

I rest my case.

Best regards,
Paulo.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Neal Pinto
Sent: 09 December 2003 17:09
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Goanet] What insult to Goans ?

Paulo,

I suppose it depends on what you define as being "native" vs.
"foreigner".

According to Merriam-Webster's online dictionary [http://www.m-w.com],
the
word "native" includes the following definitions:

- belonging to a particular place by birth (eg: native to Wisconsin)
- belonging to or associated with one by birth
- grown, produced, or originating in a particular place or in the
vicinity
- living or growing naturally in a particular region 

So, does anybody know who this woman is?   It is suspected that she is
Lamani and it has been mentioned that some anthropologists define some
Lamanis as being indigenous to what is now Goa.   Even if that
definition
is false, with the knowledge that Lamanis have been in Goa for more than
40
years, could it be possible that she was born in Goa and lived there her
whole life?

Using the definitions I listed above, lets say that some published a
picture of one of our London-born/raised Goans with a caption saying
"Native of London" and there was an outrage from those of Anglo-Saxon
descent saying that this Goan's image was an "insult to the British"
that
gives a "cheap image of London".

Would that be justified?

Neal Pinto

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RE: [Goanet]What insult to Goans ?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Dear Eddie, 

Did you find a page with a foreigner in London and a label with the
words:

"NATIVE OF LONDON" 

If yes, please send us the link and you won the challenge.
If not, and if you are referring to my email, please read it again and
reflect on what I have written. I even wrote about the situation that
you have just described. 

My challenge in my original post was in finding a label that could label
a foreigner a native of London. If you find it, please send us the link.

Of course, in the UK, it would probably be the foreigner who would have
been complaining refusing to accept he/she is a native of London... But
that is another story and a long one!

Best wishes
Paulo.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Eddie Fernandes
Sent: 08 December 2003 19:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet]What insult to Goans ?

Folks,

Whilst the balance of  probabilities suggests that the photo of the
woman in
question is indeed a Goan, a challenge has been made to produce a
picture of
a "foreigner"  promoting tourism of another country. My first port of
call
was naturally  http://www.visitlondon.com/ the official visitor site
for
London.  On the home page and on many other pages there is a solo photo
of a
black man.   And there are photos of other ethnic minorities in other
sections.  How insulting!

Cheers,

Eddie

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RE: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Let me give my two cents to this argument...

Suppose a magazine needs photographs of a London image. Say they want to
photograph Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Square and some Eastern
Europeans are in the background and someone puts a label saying London
native people.

Does anyone feel this makes sense? They are indeed Europeans, they are
of the same white skin colour, but they are not London natives. And the
differences are so obvious, starting with their way of dressing so
characteristic of Eastern Europe.

But this situation would never happen in reality and you know why?
Because someone or the other would have noticed the obvious mistake and
corrected the label. There is no problem or prejudice if they are in the
background of the photograph. The only problem is that the label is
wrong!
And if it had gone to press, the magazine would have been probably black
listed in the UK and demanded to rectify the mistake in the next issue.


This is because there is in the west attention to detail.

I cannot say the same about India. In India there is hardly any detail
whatsoever.
People just say, write and do what they want and hardly anybody cares
about the consequences. In Goa it is the sossegado concept kicking in.
In India it is really a "couldn't care less" attitude.

Even earlier this week, the Times of India, 29 Nov. reported that Mando
festival turned Goa into a mini Singapore.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/328892.cms
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031128/139/29y45.html

The article contains mistaken testimonies. The facts are incorrect and
it is sad that such things are being written in the media without any
factual and historical validation! I guess it is not the first time and
it won't be the last because nobody really cares and it is being written
by and for a real bunch of ignorants!

The dresses have a name are usually known as bazu-toddop and are not
Singaporean but of Malay origin. The Portuguese didn't use to go to
Singapore. That is wrong. Singapore was nothing else but a very small
fishermen village and really only became one of the most important ports
in the world in the last two centuries with the British. The Portuguese
used to go to Malacca (which was another Portuguese colony from 1511 to
1641, taken over by the Dutch and is today a state of Malaysia). The
Bazu-tuddop are known to be of Malay origin, not Singaporean.

The origins of the Mando are debatable and there are lots of theories
but I don't think the Portuguese can take full credit for the music like
the article says. At the most, that is one of the theories...

Best regards
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of George Pinto
Sent: 05 December 2003 01:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western
architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are
Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link
below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against
Indians is ok.  I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

--- Gabe Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>  Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was
perhaps the
>  same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with
those who
>  oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out
this
>  anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo
?
>  whooo?
> 
>  http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
> 
>  Cheers,
> 
> Gabe Menezes.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/


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RE: [Goanet]"Konkani" & "Udraka"

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of >Teotonio R. de Souza
>Sent: 30 November 2003 17:32
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [Goanet]"Konkani" & "Udraka"
>Importance: High
>
> (1) I am surprised why my reply to the earlier thread on "Concani" / 
>Konkani" did not get through. My response was to Domnic Pereira who
raised
>this issue. 
>
>Even though the Portuguese language does not use the letter K, which is
not
>included in its alphabet,  S.R. Dalgado, internationally acclaimed Goan
>linguist, who lived many years and died in Portugal, published his
>classical
>dictionary of Konkani  in 2 vols. The first volume was published in
Bombay
>in 1893 and the 2nd volume in Lisbon in 1905. He wrote "Diccionario
>Komkani-Portuguez" / Diccionario Portuguez-Komkani" (with anushwar or
>diacritical dot on M to indicate nasal sound, as required by the
Jonesian
>system of transliteration).

So what if one internationally acclaimed Goan/Portuguese author
published in 1905 a Portuguese/Konkani dictionary where he used the word
KOMKANI (*with K) instead of C. I might be wrong but it appears to me
that Dalgado used phonetics rather than correct spellings, hence he used
KOMKANI, rather then Konkani. Also, from what I have read, he had been
exposed to the English language quite a lot, which will probably justify
the use of the letter K instead of C. The fact that he edited a version
in Bombay first in 1893 probably means that he was also addressing the
English market for such dictionary.

The fact remains that Konkani in Portuguese is written as Concani and it
has been always like that simply because K does not exist in the
Portuguese alphabet and it is commonly replaced by C. My previously
reply was simply to note the fact that you have unfairly called amateurs
those who write Konkani with C. This could mean you are calling
Portuguese writers amateurs simply because they rightly write in their
own language the word Concani with C.

Probably a much more valuable research topic would be to find out what
version came first: Concani with C or Konkani with K. 

Since the Portuguese ruled in the Indian subcontinent centuries before
the British, I would be inclined to think that Concani version came
first since the original version must have not been in Roman script.

Do you have access to any research on this topic?

Best regards, 
Paulo Colaco Dias.

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[Goanet]Latest news: Abu Salem sentenced to 4.5 years in prison in Lisbon.

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

One of India's most wanted men, Bombay crime boss Abu Salem, has gone on
trial in Portugal on charges of carrying false travel documents and was
sentenced earlier today to 4.5 years in prison in Lisbon.

Full text in (Portuguese) daily "O Publico"
http://ultimahora.publico.pt/shownews.asp?id=1177221&idCanal=95

Regards
Paulo Colaco Dias
 

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RE: [Goanet]"Concani" or "Konkani"?

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Here is an example of an inappropriate comment with an obvious target and a mean 
uncalled for attack on those who correctly write the word "Concani" in their own 
language (Portuguese). 

One would have expected a Portuguese citizen to know a little bit more about the 
Portuguese alphabet especially if one lives, works and is even a lecturer in Portugal 
for several years now. 

There is no need to direct inflammatory remarks to those Portuguese scholars who 
correctly use the Portuguese spelling in their Portuguese texts. Amateurs are perhaps 
those who fail to understand the simplest of the explanations: i.e., the letter K does 
not exist in the Portuguese alphabet.

Before anybody else draws useless and inappropriate conclusions, let me inform that 
the Portuguese alphabet consists of only 23 letters (as opposed to the English 26). 
The letters K, W and Y do not exist in the Portuguese alphabet, even though they can 
be used in names and standard international terms (ex: Kg, Km, Kwatt, etc).

Hence, "Concani" is a Portuguese word and it exists in the standard Portuguese 
dictionary probably since the XVI century (Vide for example 
http://www.priberam.pt/dlpo/definir_resultados.aspx?pal=concani ). 

In English it is written as Konkani. But, if you are writing in Portuguese, the 
correct spelling is "Concani" and the Portuguese have been using that spelling since 
the XVI century and probably forevermore because it is correct Portuguese while 
Konkani is not a Portuguese word but an English one. 

I wonder if the Spanish also feel offended because we write Spain in English instead 
of España (in Castellano/Spanish).

Sadly, some people never waste an opportunity.
"Para bom entendedor, meia palavra chega!"

Best regards,
Paulo.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teotonio R. de Souza
Sent: 27 November 2003 12:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]"Concani" or "Konkani"?

I am glad Domnic Pereira has come to the right conclusion, but it does not
follow from his explanation. 

Those who wrote "Concani" with "C" also wrote "Concan" with "C". Neither
logic nor history is in question here ! Those who were aware and utilised
the Jonesian (Orientalist Wiliam Jones) code of transliteration from
devanagari to roman script used "K" for Konkani as early as 1893! 

Those doing serious research may have to refer to S.R. Dalgado's
Introduction to his "Konkani" (written with K)- Portuguese Dictionary
published in Bombay (1893)

Those who continue to engage in amateurish research may continue to write
with "C" way into the coming centuries!

-- 

During the Portuguese regime, almost everyone wrote the name of our mother

tongue beginning with "C" - "Concani", and it continued to be written so

even after Liberation. However, more recently most everyone writes it

beginning with letter "K" - "Konkani" and it does make sense because of the

following:

"Konkani" is the language of "Konkankars" belonging to the "Konkan" belt.

Therefore, it is but appropriate that we write the name of our mother tongue

beginning with "K" rather than "C". It logically and historically makes

more sense!

Domnic Fernandes

Dhahran, KSA


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RE: [Goanet]Goanese & non-Goans: Webquest column from Goa Today

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Hi Cecil. I agree that Encyclopaedia Britannica is linguistically inaccurate when 
refers to us as Goanese. But regarding to the rest of their statement, they clearly 
state "are partly of Portuguese descent". So I cannot conclude from there that they 
meant all Goans are of Portuguese descent. They clearly state the word "partially". It 
is true that some of us goans do have Portuguese blood and are commonly known as 
"descendentes" or if you wish to use a more derogatory term, you can use "mesticos" 
(which basically means mixed race) and can be used for white/black mixed as well. 
There are many family names in Goa that are known to be descendentes like for example 
"Lobato Faria", "Marques", "Mendes da Silva",  and many others.

Also I think you meant "canarins" and not "canarans". The Portuguese gave the name of 
Canarins to the first non-Muslim Indians they found (canarin meaning canary, the 
saffron bird) because they were impressed with the dresses of the religious non-Muslim 
Indians who used to dress in this saffron colour. 

I do not know what East-Africa Portuguese documents you refer to (possibly from 
Mozambique?) but most of our Goans in Portuguese Africa (Mozambique in the East and 
Angola, Cabo Verde, Guine-Bissau e Sao Tome e Principe in the West) were in the later 
centuries called simply as Goeses and classified of Arian Race. Yes, I do remember 
coming across documents in Portuguese where our race was commonly described as Arian 
race (Raça: Ariana). You will possibly find these in Goa too.

Best regards,
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cecil Pinto
Sent: 07 November 2003 12:56
To: Frederick Noronha
Subject: [Goanet]Goanese & non-Goans: Webquest column from Goa Today

This error isn't recent though. Till a few decades back Goans were often
referred to as Goanese in British records and as Mesticos and Canarans in
Portuguese records in East Africa. In the Portuguese language the word for
Goans is: "Goeses" (plural) and "Goes" (singular) or 'Goesa' (female). 
Alternative Portuguese terms are "goano" (male) and "goana" (female),

Even the Encyclopaedia Brittanica 1995
(www.goanet.com/text/general/intro.htm) states "Many Goanese bear Portuguese
names and are partly of Portuguese descent as a result of intermarriage
between early Portuguese settlers and the local inhabitants." Besides being
linguistically inaccurate, the other fact of the matter is that the
Portuguese surnames came by during mass conversions, when the presiding
Portuguese officer gave the recently baptised the legacy of his name.



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RE: [Goanet]The saint business (Filomena Giese)

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Hi Filomena, 

Being a catholic is firstly to have faith and to demonstrate it by your
own actions and thoughts. You have been extremely critical of the
Vatican which for me is a contradiction in the sense that if you are so
critical of the Vatican and the Catholic Church, why are you fighting so
much for the cause of our Blessed Jose Vaz? In my opinion and and in
many others' I have spoken to, Blessed Jose Vaz is already a Saint. And
I am sure there are so many other saints whose lives were never known
and will never be known but who have died in the service of others and
by the love of others, in tragic circumstances, many times as martyrs of
their own faith. Those are definitely saints, for sure! Even we are all
called to be saints. 

I have no justification for your allegations but, as a Catholic, my
faith is all I need to keep me going. I trust in the Vatican and in the
Catholic Church because my faith is strong.

Let me also tell you that the Vatican has got a Goan (born in
Borda-Margao) as a Nuntius Apostolicus. Archbishop Blasco Francisco
Collaco is currently the Apostolic Nuncio for South Africa, Namibia,
Lesotho and Swaziland, and also Apostolic Delegate for Botswana. For
those who do not know, an Apostolic Nuncio is an ambassador of the Pope
and officially represents the Vatican in the countries they work. 

Best regards, 
Paulo Colaco Dias.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Filomena Giese
Sent: 05 November 2003 12:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet]The saint business (Filomena Giese)

Dear Evans,
Now you really sound like a Protestant!  Is there a
name for someone who is in-between being a Catholic
and a Protestant? That would describe a lot of
Catholics. 
This Pope has completely stifled all discussion on the
topics you have outlined.  Catholics mostly are living
a different reality from what the conservative
teachings say.  I did go into the corridors of the
Vatican in the year 2000 (not just once, but 3
times!)to canvass for the Joseph Vaz canonization, and
went to services, the Papal audience etc. - my
overriding impression was that the place was run by 
white, male, mostly aged or aging clerics, and not one
woman in any position of power and decision-making
authority,that I could see anyway! 
It's definitely a bastion of white, aging male (dare I
say male menopausal) privilege!  They don't speak the
ordinary language of you and me
There's little hope of changing their agenda.  Why
worry, we can only live our own good life and do good
works, and chuckle at the incongruity of it all.
Filomena



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RE: [Goanet]Fw: Goa Su-Raj falys cops for misbehaving with party members

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Dear Floriano, 

I think I have seen this before.
It was called P.I.D.E. and it was created in 1945. 
It should have disappeared/abolished on the 19th Dec 1961, but it looks
like it is back! Or maybe it was never abolished!

Para bom entendedor, meia palavra basta!

Paulo Colaco Dias.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of goasuraj
Sent: 31 December 2000 18:34
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Fw: Goa Su-Raj falys cops for misbehaving with party
members

>
> Ref. No. GSRP/MPI/EDC/10/03
> 27th. October, 2003
>
> The Inspector of Police/SHO/SDPO.,
> Mapusa Police Station, Bardez Goa..
>
> Sir,
>
> Subject: Illegal search of Party Office Premises: Detention of Party
> Members.
>
> We wish to place on record our strong protest at the high-handed
manner in
> which the Police visited the Office of the Party at Mapusa on
Saturday,
the
> 25th. October, 2003 at around 1830 hours, and entered the premises of
the
> Party Office.
> Three members of the Party amongst whom were two male Indian Citizens
and
> one female Indian Citizen were questioned as to why they were present
in
the
> Premises of the Party. They were placed under detention and escorted
under
> Police Guard, in a Police Van to Mapusa Police Station, and
subsequently
> released at around 20.00 hours of the same day.
> We are constrained to believe that the action of the Police was
malafide
> with an intention to browbeat Members of the Party from supporting the
> action taken by the Party in exposing the murky happenings at the
Economic
> Development Corporation through the dispatch of Legal Notices dated
17th &
> 20th October, 2003.   to the Directors of the EDC and the holding of
the
> Press Conference subsequently on 22nd. October, 2003.
> We have also noticed that on Monday the 27th. October, 2003 from
around
> 10:15 hours two Policemen in plain clothes have been stationed
opposite
the
> building of our Party Premises, perhaps ostensibly to keep a watch on
> citizens who may visit the Party Office.
>
> Whilst we are aware of our rights under the Constitution of India, we
trust
> that you will not be found wanting in the discharge of your
obligations
> under the very same Constitution of India which binds us both under
its
> provisions.
>
> Thanking you,
> Yours sincerely,
> for Goa Su-Raj Party
>  sd/-
> (Floriano C. Lobo)
> President.
> Copy: Director General of Police, Police Headquarters, Panjim, Goa.
> Copy: Chief Secretary, Secretariat, Government of Goa.
>
> (Report from Herald dt. 28th. October, 2003. (Page 3)
>
> GOA SU-RAJ FLAYS COPS FOR 'MISBEHAVING' WITH PARTY MEMBERS
> By Herald Reporter:
> Panjim, OCT 27- The Goa Su-Raj Party has strongly condemned the
high-handed
> behaviour of the police for visiting the party office in Moira and
> questioning the bonafide of three party members present in the office
on
> October 25.
> Party President, Floriano Lobo, registering a strong protest with the
top
> officers, has said that three members who were questioned  as to why
they
> were present in the premises of the party, were later placed under
detention
> and escorted under police guard in a police van to the Mapusa police
> station. The trio was subsequently released at around 8 pm, he added.
The
> police had gone to the office at 6.30 pm.
>
> "We are constrained to believe that the action of the police was
malafide
> with an intention to browbeat members of the party from supporting the
> action taken by the party in exposing the murky happenings at the
Economic
> Development Corporation through the dispatch of Legal Notices dated
October
> 17 and 20, 2003. to the Directors of the EDC and the holding of the
Press
> Conference subsequently on October 22," Lobo said in his complaint to
the
> police, copies of which have been dispatched to the DIG and Chief
Secretary.
>
> Lobo also claimed that on Monday, October 27, from around 10.15 am two
> policemen in plain clothes have been stationed opposite the building
of
the
> party premises, perhaps ostensibly to keep a watch on citizens who may
visit
> the party office.
>
> www.goasu-raj.org

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RE: [Goanet]We will always continue to be, what we have actually been all along ! That cannot be changed,We can however Transform our lives that is the choice we have.

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Hi Auspicio, I am a bit confused. Are the laws in Goa different? The
fact that I am not an Indian citizen and (I was never an Indian citizen
and neither were my parents ever Indian citizens) never prevented my
parents and more recently myself and my brothers and sisters from
inheriting properties in Goa, and, also, buying and selling properties
in Goa. My citizenship was never a problem because I believe the law
refers to people of Indian origin and not Indian citizenship. Isn't this
true all over India? 

Paulo Colaco Dias.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Auspicio Rodrigues
Sent: 15 October 2003 04:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]We will always continue to be, what we have actually
been all along ! That cannot be changed,We can however Transform our
lives that is the choice we have.

Well,here is what another friend sent me from  down under Australia and
it's
after all  true!
I hope Doutor Santosh shares this opinion this time,atleast and I do
hope
this has not already done, the round of Goanet and that this is not our
desi
nonsense  anyway.
Well I received  it from Eng.Ivo Vaz,I have no idea who penned it
either,but
does it matter?
It is the thought!
["Once An Indian Always An Indian"

Indians around the world got some good news recently:
The Indian government had finally agreed to allow dual citizenship.
Minutes
after hearing the news, thousands of Non-Resident Indians dispatched
telegrams to their parents and grandparents in India, saying, "Remember
that
plot of land I couldn't inherit before? Don't give it to anyone!"


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RE: [Goanet]origins of sorpotel

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

The Goan sarapatel we know so well is indeed of Portuguese origin and it
is very famous in the luso-world. There are several variants added in
the Goan version to make it closer to the Goan taste. In Alentejo,
Portugal, it is sometimes called sarrabulho (usually non-spiced version)
but equally known as sarapatel.

Helga is right, we Goans jazzed it up with our local spices but majority
of the ingredients are common in all variants.

Just like vindaloo is a corruption of vindalho and bibique is a
corruption of bebinca, sorpatel and sorpotel are indeed corruptions of
the original word sarapatel.

Original Goan cookbooks refer to it correctly as Sarapatel.
Vide: Joyce Fernandes - Goan Recipes, Sharma Pobhai - Cozinha Regional
Goesa, etc.

Best regards, 
Paulo Colaco Dias.
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Helga do Rosario Gomes
Sent: 13 October 2003 12:40
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]origins of sorpotel





 I think it is derived from the Brazilian Sarapatel where  the liver and
 heart of either a pig or a sheep are mixed with fresh blood from either
 animal and tomatoes, peppers and onions are added and everything is
cooked
 together.
 Goans must have jazzed it up with the local spices and alcohol to give
it
 the characteristic taste of Goan Sorpotel.
 -Helga

 
> - Original Message -
> From: "sarabond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 12, 2003 11:47 AM
> Subject: [Goanet]AaaahSorpotel !!
> 
> 
> > That was tempting Daisy !!
> > To think of it and the mouth goes wet.
> > But I always wondered why such a name to the delicious dish?
> > Sorpotel ... translates to SNAKE-OIL.
> >
> 



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RE: [Goanet]Re: Goa's Patron Saint

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

What's "Naik" and where does it come from?

Paulo Colaco Dias

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Bosco D'Mello
Sent: 07 October 2003 19:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]Re: Goa's Patron Saint

Hi Miguel,

George Pinto and the Joseph Naik Vaz Institute in Berkeley, CA, have
been at the
forefront of the crusade for the beatification and canonization of
Blessed Jose
Vaz. I can't say whether he/they have worked harder for this cause than
the

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RE: [Goanet]NEWS-GULF: ICICI Bank eyes Gulf NRIs through Dubai office

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Since we are talking about ICICI, for those of you who have accounts
with them and live either in the UK or in the US, you might like know
that ICICI bank has got 2 free phone numbers to call them directly (for
UK and US residents). Information can be obtained from:
http://www.icici.com/pfsuser/icicibank/ibank-nri/index.htm

Also, their "money 2 india" service (which is available from many
countries) is excellent, reliable and free of charge.

Best regards, 
Paulo.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Frederick Noronha (FN)
Sent: 02 October 2003 18:58
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Goanet]NEWS-GULF: ICICI Bank eyes Gulf NRIs through Dubai
office

ICICI Bank eyes Gulf NRIs through Dubai office

By Mridula Krishna, Indo-Asian News Service


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RE: [Goanet]Goan Association of New York

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Hi Vivek, 

I am afraid you got a few dates slightly wrong.
Also, beware that many of the authorities on which the biographies of
Xavier have been based are untrustworthy so, please allow me a few
corrections to your text: Francisco de Xavier was born in the Basque
Region. He was born in 1506 in the kingdom of Navarre, on the northern
border of Aragon. He was the youngest of six children. His father, Don
Juan de Jassu (Definitely not Dr. Joao de Xavier - which is completely
wrong), was a grave and learned man, a Doctor of Laws of Bologna. He
was also chancellor of Navarre, and married to Dona Maria de Azpilcueta
y Xavier, a wealthy lady, sole heiress of two very proud and noble
Basque and Navarrese families. Francisco de Xavier was born at his
mother's castle of Xavier, at the foot of the Pyrenees and close to the
little town of Sanguesa on the 7th April 1506. Following a Spanish
custom, Francisco adopted the surname of his extremely wealthy mother
and not of his father and therefore he was named Francisco de Xavier
(not Francisco Xavier).

So, the father of S. Francisco de Xavier was Dom Juan de Jassu and did
not have the surname of Xavier.

Our saint got his surname from his mother, following a very old Spanish
custom where the surname of the child can come either from the father or
from the mother or from both. His mother's surname (maiden surname) was
indeed Xavier and she was the sole heiress of two noble and very wealthy
Basque families. Francisco de Xavier was born at her mother's Castle of
Xavier.

Best regards,
Paulo Colaco Dias.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of vivek araujo
Sent: 02 October 2003 18:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Goan Association of New York


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RE: [Goanet]Marlon's comparison - Miguel & Dave

[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Miguel, 

You are new to this forum. Most people here know each other very well here and we all 
know who is who, where he/she lives and what he/she has done for Goa.

I do not doubt you contribute a lot to Goa and to Goans on your own way.

But the main problem I see in your posts is that you speak with lack of knowledge and 
you hardly know anybody here. Your assertions are very often far from the truth 
because they are not based on facts. You assume a lot without knowing the truth and 
take a lot for granted. In the bargain, a lot of people get convinced what you say is 
true. This is the main problem with you. It is almost like you are one of those Goan 
politicians. Are you? I bet you are on you own way. If you are not, you would 
certainly do very well in Goan politics.

Dave and Marlon have done a lot for Goa and Goans. Both more than you can ever 
imagine. But I doubt they are going to tell you that. Nobody likes to talk about one 
self.
If you want to know what Dave and Marlon have done for Goa and for Goans, why don't 
you do yourself some home work? Ask around but don't make a fool of yourself by asking 
it in this forum where they are so known. You can also look at the goanet archives 
since 1994 and also at goacom website!

Paulo Colaco Dias.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Miguel Braganza
Sent: terça-feira, 16 de Setembro de 2003 22:04
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Goanet]Marlon's comparison - Miguel & Dave

Dear Marlon,

Thanks for the information on Dave Futers. Which organization? Which schools
in Goa? If he is doing a good job in Goa,he is welcome here...by charter or
otherwise. I was only responding to his posting tangentially attacking my
earlier postings. I stand by assertion that British charter tourists as a
whole do not give Goa a 'net benefit' directly. It is a fact, I see no need
to be an ostrich about that! Could you please name the schools that you know
that Dave has helped computerize. I know about ISEAF. Never heard of Dave.
Not too late to know him,I guess. I too work with schools,though not with
computers.

For the record,I have never ever called Dave Futers a "cheap charter
tourist".Those are your words. If you want to call him that,do not act like
a ventroloquist and project the words as coming from me.

Pray,tell me what is a *retired british national* ?

Whether Dave has done more for Goa than I have, it is for the beneficiaries
to decide. Dave has not raised this issue with me. What have *you* done for
Goa,Mr.Marlon Menezes?? Can we discuss that? Please.

Viva Goa.

Miguel

- Original Message -
From: "Marlon Menezes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>
> For the record, over the last 10 years, Dave, a now
> *retired british national*, has personally donated his
> time and money to help computerize and train a couple
> of schools in Goa. . One does not of course include the numerous
> other works of charity this so called "cheap charter
> tourist" has done during his visits to Goa.
> Marlon

> > >Earlier Marlon Menezes wrote to Miguel Braganza.
> >
> >  I suggest you take your rage on the charter
> > operators offline(or vice versa) rather than attack
> > individuals like Dave who have done more for Goa
> > than you ever have or ever will.



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