from:"Peter D'Souza"

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Samir Kelekar writes:
It is quite interesting that despite the bad economy, people losing jobs,
people have voted for Bush.
 

It is very interesting indeed, Samir. The truth of the matter is that in 
spite of the economy losing 1.9 million jobs due to the recession that 
Bush inherited, and in spite of the economic fallout of September 11, 
the Bush administration created an economic stimulus package which 
resulted in the recovery of over 800,000 jobs. ..and it continues to 
grow for the 14th straight month. Manufacturing has increased too. 
Unemployment is down by more than 1 percentage point, and is as low as 
it was during the prosperous Clinton economy of  1996. So, "despite the 
bad economy, people losing jobs", it is only as bad as it was when 
Clinton was re-elected in 1996. Nobody was complaining then, and the 
American people who were affected by it during the last 4 years seem to 
think it's only as significant a problem as it was in 1996. The United 
States share of the world's GDP at the time Bush took office was about 
25%, it's now 33%. There is no cause to complain about the superb growth 
in GDP.

Does this mean that people vote based on their religious feelings, so-called
moral issues, more than their economic concerns?
 

No, they also voted based on economic concerns as I outlined above. 
People do vote based on religious feelings, one of many factors. Values 
play an important role too. In a country where the rule of law is 
paramount it must come as a given that a strong moral code undergirds 
the foundation of that law. I think it was Malcolm X who once said "if 
you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Or is that the terrorism threat --- the fear factor --- has made Bush
garner votes? Or is it that Kerry was not perceived as a strong enough
candidate?
 

The fear factor coupled with the fact that the United States has been 
effectively protected against any major terrorist act since September 
11, 2001 has been an important contributor in the re-election of George 
W. Bush. There have been many planned attacks which have been stopped, 
and terrorist sleeper cells have been uncovered. This is well documented.

With $100 billion a year in war costs, if Iraqi resistance continues, and
with jobs going to places like India, the future for the US lay people appears not
so bright. Or is it that people do have jobs in the US and this outsourcing/loss
of jobs is just a media hype?
 

The outsourcing of manufacturing has several benefits, among them the 
average household in the United States has about $2,000 each year in 
spending cash. The outsourcing of tech jobs to Bangalore and other 
places has several benefits, one of which is that American consumer 
goods end up in the hands of foreign consumers. I won't bore you with 
more detail, but there are liberals and conservatives alike who share 
that sentiment. You might want to check articles on the subject by 
Thomas Friedman (a liberal), the influential foreign affairs editor of 
the New York Times, or the editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal 
(conservative). Regarding war costs: there are significant amounts of 
the money spent there which comes back to the United States since 
American contractors such as Raytheon and Halliburton have been 
providing infrastructural support.

Of course, if the Iraqi resistance calms down, and Bush is
able to get cheap oil from Iraq --- which was his main aim anyway --- then
it may be good for the American economy.
 

Sir, you have no idea what you're talking about. Spending an extra $100 
billion a year does not make oil cheaper.

Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]Re: Mervyn's Defence of Kerry

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Mervyn Lobo disse:
Peter,
Your vice-president called Mandela a terrorist. In fact, he voted to keep Mandela in 
jail. Had that come
to pass, S. Africa would have been another region on fire right now.
Mervyn,
Mandela's had doubtless been fighting a good cause. And he was very 
statemanlike when he came to office. His call against black South 
Africans taking vengeance into their own hands was commendable and truly 
helped the long term stability of South Africa. The Truth & 
Reconciliation Commission (D. Tutu) showed that he was serious about 
establishing the rule of law and prosecuting those who had committed 
crimes during the struggle.
You can't ignore the fact that this same Nelson Mandela
1. Planted 5 bombs in a government building in Johannesburg (1961), 
which killed many people, including women and children.
2. Said this of 4 Puerto Ricans terrorists who shot 5 United States 
congressmen (1954): "We support the cause of anyone who is fighting for 
self-determination, and our attitude is the same, no matter who it is. I 
would be honored to sit on the platform with the four comrades you refer 
to."
3. He was charged for "the preparation, manufacture and use of 
explosives—for the purpose of committing acts of violence and 
destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture 
of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand 
grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of 
ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);"

Given these facts, was it wrong for Dick Cheney to oppose his release 
from prison at the time? A free South Africa is not necessarily 
synonymous with a free Nelson Mandela.

Yasser Arafat took up arms only after he was kicked out of his home. The very fact 
that the Israeli's deal with him is enough proof that he delivers on his promises or, 
in other words, he is a statesman.
Yasser Arafat once bragged to a colleague that he was the father of 
hijacking planes to achieve his ends. He has wanted nothing short of 
pushing Israel into the Mediterranean Sea. You're right, Israelis deal 
with him. I like the way they do (or have done--if he's dead by the time 
you read this message).

Peter

[Goanet]Re: George Pinto on Civil Rights in the USA

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--- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Your post is interesting and true.  Kerry won in a landslide amoung the 
tolerant types.  Bush won in a landslide amoung the intolerant types - those 
who use their religion to hate others and deny them civil rights.  Yesterday, 
gay marriage as
>banned in 10 (maybe 11) states.  These from the same folks who have a 50% 
divorce rate and are concerned about preserving the "sanctity" of marriage.  
The same folks who opposed the Civil Rights Act, the Equal Rights Amendment 
and other equalities.  
>

George,
You're misinformed. The CRA passed because of Republicans and in 
spite of the Democrats.. According to the Congressional Quarterly, 82% 
of Senate Republicans voted for it, while only 69% of Democrats did. In 
the House, 80% of Republicans voted for it and only 61% of Democrats did.

Al Gore Sr., the father of that great Democrat candidate for 
president, opposed the CRA. Charlton Heston, a very conservative 
Republican, marched with blacks in Selma to support the Civil Rights 
Movement. Those intolerant Democrats! :-)

Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]Re: Santosh Helekar's Comments on Kerry

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Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>The point is that you tried to mislead the people that Kerry did nothing in 
the senate. In a democracy people have a right to dissent. Reasoned opposition 
to the policies of the government does not constitute hate. What amounts to 
hate is spreading lies, and resorting to a smear campaign.
>  
>
Santosh,

I should have clarified--I meant that Senator Kerry did nothing 
significant in the Senate, meaning nothing that merited a mention in 
the endorsements that came from his staunchest supporters. His Senate 
record barely figured in the Democrat Convention in Boston. You've got 
to ask yourself why four-and-a-half months in VietNam was a bigger part 
of his own campaign spiel than his 20 years in the Senate.

Peter

[Goanet]Re: George Pinto on Civil Rights in the USA

2004-11-05 Thread Peter D'Souza

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--- George Pinto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Your post is interesting and true.  Kerry won in a landslide amoung the tolerant types.  Bush won in a landslide amoung the intolerant types - those who use their religion to hate others and deny them civil rights.  Yesterday, gay marriage as
banned in 10 (maybe 11) states.  These from the same folks who have a 50% divorce rate and are concerned about preserving the "sanctity" of marriage.  The same folks who opposed the Civil Rights Act, the Equal Rights Amendment and other equalities.  

George,
   You're misinformed. The CRA passed _because_ of Republicans and in 
spite of the Democrats.. According to the _Congressional Quarterly_, 82% 
of Senate Republicans voted for it, while only 69% of Democrats did. In 
the House, 80% of Republicans voted for it and only 61% of Democrats 
did. Those intolerant Democrats! :-)
   Al Gore Sr., the father of that great Democrat candidate for 
president, opposed the CRA. Charlton Heston, a very conservative 
Republican, marched with blacks in Selma to support the Civil Rights 
Movement.
   Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]Re: Santosh Helekar's Comments on Kerry

2004-11-05 Thread Peter D'Souza

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Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The point is that you tried to mislead the people that Kerry did nothing in the senate. In a democracy people have a right to dissent. Reasoned opposition to the policies of the government does not constitute hate. What amounts to hate is spreading lies, and resorting to a smear campaign.
 

Santosh,
   I should have clarified--I meant that Senator Kerry did nothing 
_significant_ in the Senate, meaning nothing that merited a mention in 
the endorsements that came from his staunchest supporters. His Senate 
record barely figured in the Democrat Convention in Boston. You've got 
to ask yourself why four-and-a-half months in VietNam was a bigger part 
of his own campaign spiel than his 20 years in the Senate.
   Peter

[Goanet]Re: Samir Kelekar on Economics

2004-11-05 Thread Peter D'Souza

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Samir Kelekar writes:
Gimme a break; Bush inherited recession? My understanding was that the economy was its peak in 2000, late 2000.

That's not a fact. It peaked in the second quarter of 2000--the GDP growth rate
reached 6.4%. It dropped drastically in the third quarter of 2000 (before the
elections) to -0.5%, that's minus zero point five percent. It's not what you'd call an
economic peak.
The recession (at least in the IT field) began just as Bush took over, and then 9/11 made things worse.

The IT recession, as you call it, started as a consequence of the
fallout of the dot com industry, which started as early as March 2000.
Check the figures for the second quarter of 2000 to get an idea.

Where are you getting your data from?

The Bureau of Economic Analysis. www.bea.gov. Where do you get yours from?
One thing is sure that this will create more terrorists. For instance, those who are keeping people hostage now, and massacaring, they were nowhere to be seen before the Iraq war.

Yes, most of us didn't see them. People on the planes which crashed into
the WTC and the Pentagon got to see some of them. There's a fellow named
Osama who had been around before the Iraq war. People in Israel get to
see them (terrorists) every other day. Yasser Arafat knows many on a
first name basis. America had heard from them before the Iraq
war--remember the US embassies in Dar-es-Salaam and Nairobi, the bombing
of the _USS Cole_ in Yemen, the bombing of the World Trade Center in
1993, ... My point is that the war didn't transform peace-loving folks
into mass murderers.

What about 1000 American casualties? Going by how things are going, these are only going to increase in the next four years, it looks like.

Maybe, maybe not. Remember what was said about Afghanistan. It's worth
waiting to see the eventual outcome of the war.

Hey, if you get oil fields free, spending that much money could make economic sense. Certainly it does not make any legal sense (and I am talking international law here), and certainly not moral sense.

I don't understand how spending a premium of $100 billion per year can
make economic sense. Your argument seems to stem from skepticism more
than reality. .

And, people say they voted Bush on moral basis?

22% of voters thought that morals were the most important factor, 78%
thought otherwise. Almost 1 of every 5 people who thought morals were
the most important factor voted for Kerry. (source: pewforums.org). I'm
tired of this talk about all of Bush's supporters being fools who only
consider morals in their choice for President. The morals issue is being
blown out of proportion by liberals who are determined to divide
America. Why do we hear so little about the 19% of Americans for whom
terrorism is the key issue and so much more about religion being the
main factor? In fact, the Bush-Kerry divide on religion is smaller than
the divide on the issue of terrorism. (source: BBC -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3973197.stm )

People's morals must be in their knees, man.

Whatever.
Thanks for your very thoughtful comments.
Adeus,
Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]Re: Samir Kelekar on Terrorism

2004-11-08 Thread Peter D'Souza

Samir Kelekar writes:
There are enough reports to indicate that the anti-American sentiments
world-wide has increased massively after the unilateral attack on Iraq. Now if
you are saying that none of this sentiment is going to turn people into taking
up arms, then you must be assuming everyone the world over is like GoaNet
subscribers: all talk only.
Samir,
There is no dispute that anti-American sentiment is very strong around
the world. In fact, some of the largest anti-Bush demonstrations have
taken place in Australia and England. No matter how much the hatred, you
can't blame Mr. Bush for encouraging the growth of terrorism. Only when
the United States starts arresting masses of Finns, Swedes and
Australians--in the same numbers as they've been rounding up
Islamists--then, and only then, should America start the process of
instrospection and wonder whether it really is the *cause* of terrorism.
The civilised world cannot claim responsibility for creating terrorists,
the hatemongers of this world who allow their pre-pubescent children to
become suicide bombers are to blame.

We have seen it in Israel/Palestine. No 17 year old takes to arms and goes
for a suicide attack just like that. The point is: terrorists are not born.
[...] They happen due to one reason or the other. And Bush's unilateral
unprovoked attack on Iraq sure would be one reason for more to turn to
terrorism.
My point exactly--17-year old who has been taught to hate will take up
arms and conduct a suicide attack. Because of his upbringing he is more
likely to commit an act of terror than, say, contemporary in Portugal
who strongly opposes the American governement and its inaction in East
Timor a few years ago (a situation as dear to Portugal as the
Palestinian cause might be to the Saudis). Do you rememeber the sight of
hundreds of Palestinian children dancing in the streets when the WTC
fell? What makes pre-teen children rejoice at such at such evil? There
was no talk of invading Iraq at the time, yet the sight of children
dancing with glee leaves little doubt that these little fellows shared
the joy of terrorists. Sorry, I'm not trying to score points in an
argument--you're welcome to respond, but I won't be saying any more on
the issue. P.S. Could you drop the word "unilateral"? It's getting a
little stale, especially since many other nations have suffered
casualties in this war.

I don't understand how spending a premium of $100 billion per year can make economic sense. Your argument seems to stem from skepticism more than reality.

It is not my argument; it is Bush's logic for attacking Iraq.
This is getting pointless. You've either got to study economics, or read
the statements Mr. Bush made before the war, or both. I'd recommend
_Basic Economics_ and _Applied Economics_ , both by Thomas Sowell; don't
get put off by the title of the former, it is really a super book and a
must-read for every policymaker.

America. Why do we hear so little about the 19% of Americans for whom terrorism is the key issue and so much more about religion being the main factor?

That is an interesting point. What you are essentially saying is that people
voted Bush because they feel that his so-called war on terrorism is making
America a safer place.
What I am saying is that people prefer to treat terrorism pre-emptively
than to treat it the same way that prostitution or gambling are treated
(Kerry's strategy). Most people in America have a hard time
understanding how terrorism can be downgraded to the level of a
"nuisance" (Kerry again).

My take on this point is that turning American into a fortress could make it safer; however, Americans would be more threatened once they leave America; of course, other issues such as respect for international law etc haven't been dealt here.

Being an American (and I'm not one) does not guarantee one's safety
around the world, but neither does being a Brit, Australian, Filipino,
Indian or anybody else. "Christian Zionists" are sometimes targetted for
attacks, but some of the Zarqawi crew show that they don't discriminate.

Sincerely,
Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]Re: Santosh Helekar's Commentary on Morals

2004-11-08 Thread Peter D'Souza

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Santosh Helekar writes: 

   Terrorism was the third most important issue when it should have
   been the first, knowing what is going on
   in the world today.
"Should have been the first"? You're making a moral judgement by 
suggesting that the most important issue *should have been * the war on 
terror--the every kind of moral judgements that you otherwise despise.

   Moral values were not even a marginal issue in the last election.
   That they became an issue at all on election day this time defies
   all reason.
Why should it defy all reason? We apply moral choices when supporting a 
war or opposing it, when keeping a mass murderer in power or destroying 
his regime, or when permitting a woman to crush the skull of her unborn 
child when she decides to practice birth control in the 9th month of her 
pregnancy. We practice morals by acting against what we think is wrong 
or by simply being indifferent.

Regarding the statistics you quoted (and misapplied), I'd urge you to 
read "Why Did Kerry Lose? Answer: It Wasn't 'Values'". It's found on the 
editorial page of today's _Wall Street Journal_ (November 8). I've 
archived it at http://lintel.us/politics/notvalues.html. It will put to 
rest some of your arguments about the morality vote in this election.

Sincerely,
Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]George Pinto on Civil Rights and News Bias

2004-11-08 Thread Peter D'Souza

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George Pinto wrote:
--- Peter D'Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 

George,
   You're misinformed. The CRA passed because of Republicans and in 
spite of the Democrats.. According to the Congressional Quarterly, 82% 
of Senate Republicans voted for it, while only 69% of Democrats did. In 
the House, 80% of Republicans voted for it and only 61% of Democrats did.

Peter,
No, I am not misinformed in this matter.  Your statistics above are a "Fox News, right-wing talk
radio" version of events. By quoting percentages, you give the impression that the Republicans
were a greater number. The fact is 46 Democractic Senators voted for the Civil Rights Act versus
27 Republicans. In the House of Representatives, 152 Democrats and 138 Republicans voted for it. 
It is actual votes and not percentages which matters.
   

Hey George,
For the record, I have not once watched Fox News. I read 4 or 5 columns 
by liberal commentators each day, it's important to hear what each side 
is thinking. Let's stick to the issues, eh? My statistics didn't give 
the impression that the Republicans were a greater number, all I was 
saying that there was a higher *proportion* of Republicans in favour of 
the Civil Rights Act than there were Democrats. Quoting absolute numbers 
is fine as long as you quote the number of those who opposed it. So 
while your numbers above make Democrats look good, they would make 
Democrats look really bad if you were to quote the numbers of those in 
each party who opposed it. It is shameful that, in spite of having a 
super-majority, House and Senate Democrats opposed the CRA in such large 
numbers.

The Republican percentage seem higher because they were represented a smaller number of the total.
I just wanted to point out Peter's skewing the facts (intentionally?)
   

Skewing the facts? Please post the numbers of Democrats and Republicans 
who opposed the Civil Rights act, will you? You have not disputed my 
facts, just my presentation of them.

For the record, I am a registered Independent and not a Democrat.  

Okay, being registered Independent, Democrat or Republican doesn't mean 
a thing. In Kentucky, where I live, the vast majority of people are 
registered Democrats who vote Republican in almost every presidential 
election. (P.S. I plan to register Independent too.)

In the last few days my intention has been to point out the repeated distortions and half-truths put out by people who get their news from Fox News and talk radio and smear good people like John Kerry.  
   

George, where do you get your news from, the New York Times, perhaps? 
(120 plagiarized stories by one reporter alone; "168,000 items looted 
from the museum in Baghdad"--subsequently revised down to thirty eight; 
pre-election-week weapons story that should've been told over a year 
ago; Duelfer Report's non-news headlines about weapons of mass 
destruction while ignoring the real news from the report about Saddam 
bribing the Chinese, Russians and French...)

Good luck and be informed.
Sincerely,
Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]George Pinto/Mandates; Tim de Mello/Draft

2004-11-09 Thread Peter D'Souza

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George Pinto writes:
George Bush received more NO votes than any President in history - over 55 million.  He has a 51%
mandate.
 

Now George, we'd all be impressed if those NO votes for George W. Bush 
were actually YES votes for Kerry. Too sad that only 37% of Kerry's 
voters actually voted for him because they liked him.

Tim de Mello wrote:
   I was watching CNN this morning and part of Cafferty's report was on
   the probable emigration of Americans to Canada.
Tim, we're really hoping that Barbra Streisand, Tim Robbins, Susan 
Sarandon et al would make good on their threats, from four years ago, to 
emigrate to Europe.

   I guess after the Draft is instituted (which, I think, it must) this
   trickle will turn to a flood - including those on GoaNet who today
   so strongly support George Bush.
The draft is not going to be reinstated. The person who introduced the 
draft measure a few months ago was a Democrat, Charles Rangel. The 
measure was voted down by over 400 votes in the House, and only two 
Democrats voted for a draft. Neither of them was Charles Rangel. Nothing 
can ever get through Congress when there is such overwhelming opposition 
to it.

Sincerely,
Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]Re: George Pinto/Draft

2004-11-10 Thread Peter D'Souza

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George Pinto writes:
   --- Peter D'Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The draft is not going to be reinstated. 
   

   It is apparent some members on this forum
Hey George, "some members"? We're getting a little nuanced here, if I 
may borrow a term from one of your favourite politicians. :-)

   repeat the propaganda of the Bush administration. If they only took
   time to study the issues and find out the facts. There is a draft
   already underway
   in America - some call it 'Stop Loss', the 'Back-door Draft'.
Oh, I am so sorry--I thought Tim was actually talking about the draft, 
you know...getting people who are not in the military conscripted into 
active service. The "back-door draft" or "stop loss" policy rears its 
head every few years, almost every time there is a war. The last time a 
President requested the authority to use it was during the Kosovo war 
under Bill Clinton. I don't recall anybody complaining at the time, and 
no Democrat politician (or Republican either) used it as cheap political 
fodder by calling it a back-door draft.

Sincerely,
Peter D'Souza

Re: [Goanet]The values - vote myth (NYTimes Op-ed)

2004-11-10 Thread Peter D'Souza

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Dan Soares wrote:
   http://tinyurl.com/3lga8 (linked to David Brook's article)
Santosh Helekar responded:
   What better way there is to counter a link from New York Times than 
to provide a link from Fox News that says exactly the opposite? Link: 
http://tinyurl.com/42wyj   
[Both links abbreviated via tinyurl.com]

Santosh,
   David Brooks doesn't actually contradict the statements in the Fox 
News article. In fact, all he says is that the numbers of evangelical 
Christians who voted this year were not *proportionately higher* than 
those who voted in 2000. The actual number of evangelical voters may 
have grown, but so did the numbers for other demographic groups. In the 
Fox News story you cited one of the analysts said: "I think the biggest 
surprise was that the social concerns best associated with the 
Evangelicals resonated with people who did not necessarily fit that 
group."  That statement is part of the point that David Brooks was 
trying to make. So the mass turnout by the left (Paul Krugman's 
predictor of a Bush defeat) was effectively countered by a 
proportionately high turnout by the right (a.k.a. the correct).
   Peter

[Goanet]RE:Tim de Mello on Polarisation and the Economy

2004-11-10 Thread Peter D'Souza

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Tim de Mello writes:
   "Peter D'Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
   "Tim, we're really hoping that Barbra Streisand, Tim Robbins, Susan
   Sarandon et al would make good on their threats, from four years
   ago, to emigrate to Europe."
   Those of you who seem to relish in the concept of a polarized
   country would do well to recall the words of Lincoln: "A house
   divided against itself cannot stand."
You're right, Tim. Most of us actually want folks like Streisand, Robbins, 
Sarandon, Whoopi Goldberg et al to learn that they're seriously dislocated from 
the mainstream culture. Nobody relishes the idea of a polarised country, all of 
us want (and sometimes expect) the rest to think just like us. (BTW, the quote 
is from Jesus, Lincoln might have borrowed it. Matthew 12:25)
   The economy of the US is taking a severe beating overseas.
What does this mean? (I don't understand the meaning of one country's economy taking a 
beating overseas, but I can see a weak American economy having the effect of bruising 
smaller economies.) Perhaps you're talking about the weak dollar? Foreign nations should 
not have to complain about this...it's a better time than ever to purchase American 
goods. Or are you talking about the fact that there was no "net job loss" 
during George Bush's first term? (Per new and revised job creation figures issued late 
last week.)
Peter

[Goanet]Re: Arafat & Terrorism

2004-11-25 Thread Peter D'Souza

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- Forwarded message from Peter D'Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:40:51 -0500
From: Peter D'Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Peter D'Souza <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Subject: Re: [Goanet]Re: Arafat & Terrorism
  To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Hey Tariq,
Apparently it is alright for you to go back to a statement made 86 years 
ago by Ben Gurion to prove a point while completely ignoring the fact 
that Mario Goveia was talking about Israel's in today's context. When 
Mario said that the PLO charter doesn't recognise Israel--a claim that 
wasn't disputed even 10 years ago--you were very quick to bring him up 
to date, per your understanding of Oslo. (I do believe that Mario is 
correct, though--Yasser Arafat acknowledged the existence of Israel in 
the accords, but that did not change the PLO charter.)

Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes

>
>--- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Israel doesn't claim all of Palestine as a "historical
>>right", so this whole line of reasoning is bogus.
>>
>Perhaps you were never aware of David Ben-Gurion. In 1918 Ben-Gurion 
described the future "Jewish state's" frontiers in details as follows:
>  
>

[Goanet]Update Your Virus Definitions, Please?

2004-12-08 Thread Peter D'Souza

##
# If Goanet stops reaching you, contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]  #   
# Want to check the archives? http://www.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet/#  
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others  #
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Folks,
Like many of you, I have been receiving loads of e-mail with headers
such as "Mail Delivery failed" which are actually not mail-releated
errors, but rather virus-laden messages which have been generated by
mass-mail worms. In particular, most of them contain either the Sober
or Netsky worms.
Looking through the headers of the mail tells me that many of these
messages seem to originate from folks on this group. Please help keep
our computers secure.
You can get a free online scan of your computer at:
http://support.f-secure.com/enu/home/ols.shtml
Download an evaluation version of f-secure antivirus [1] scanner at:
http://tinyurl.com/54mxf
(F-Secure, F-Prot, Sophos and Trend Micro generally do a better job of
updating their virus definitions than Norton and McAfee. A friend
recently found 18 viruses on her PC which went completely undetected
by Norton Antivirus.)
A really nice, free anti-virus program is BitDefender:
www.bitdefender.com
You're better off using non-Microsoft products for Internet browsing
and e-mail:
Thunderbird (e-mail): http://getthunderbird.com/
Firefox (web browser): http://getfirefox.com/
Good luck.
Peter D'Souza
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[Goanet]Re: Francis Xavier - Missionary

2004-12-08 Thread Peter D'Souza

##
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~From the Dec. 13, 2004 issue of TIME Asia Magazine
Missionary, Explorer, Hero
St. Francis Xavier was a failure, so why do millions of believers
flock to see his remains in Goa?  
BY ALEX PERRY | GOA

ARKO DATTA / REUTERS
Would anybody on this list happen to know the contact information for
the writer of this article, Arko Datta? He was a colleague of mine at
Madras Christian College and I'd like to get in touch with him.
Thanks,
Peter
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[Goanet]PLEASE DISREGARD: Re: Francis Xavier - Missionary

2004-12-08 Thread Peter D'Souza

##
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Sorry, I just checked the Time site and found no mention of Arko's name.
Please disregard my previous post.
- --
~ ~From the Dec. 13, 2004 issue of TIME Asia Magazine
~ Missionary, Explorer, Hero
~ St. Francis Xavier was a failure, so why do millions of believers
~ flock to see his remains in Goa?
~ BY ALEX PERRY | GOA
~ ARKO DATTA / REUTERS
~ Would anybody on this list happen to know the contact information for
~ the writer of this article, Arko Datta? He was a colleague of mine at
~ Madras Christian College and I'd like to get in touch with him.
~ Thanks,
~ Peter
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[Goanet]New York Times ( Was RE: The chickens coming home to roost)

2004-12-16 Thread Peter D'Souza

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Radhakrishnan,
I'm not sure where you live nor how often you read the New York Times.
As recently as about 6 months ago the ombudsman of the New York Times
admitted that the newspaper had a liberal bias. This was probably big
news to devoted readers of the NY Times, but it offered no surprises
to most astute observers.
(Check: http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2004/0726.asp)
To be sure, every newspaper's editorial page has a bias. The Wall
Street Journal, for instance, is unabashedly conservative, while the
NYT is pathetically liberal (or "moderate", as they might call it).
What distinguishes the NY Times is that its bias not only affects the
editorials and commentary but it routinely creeps into its news
"reporting" and headlines. Other major newspapers, including the
Washington Post and USA Today, are reliably liberal but they seldom
allow their editorial slant to influence their presentation of news.
Your might want to visit timeswatch.org to get an idea of how subtly,
and sometimes not so subtly, the NYT pushes its view on its readers.
One of my favourite daily exposes of the NYT was
http://smartertimes.com. That site is mostly defunct since its editor
started a daily newspaper called the New York Sun. They might have
archived material available for your reading pleasure.
Good luck with your journalism studies.
Peter D'Souza
P.S. Reading the New York Times everyday for several years played no
small part in my becoming a conservative.

~From: "Radhakrishnan Nair" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
~Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:05:45 +0530
~Subject: [Goanet]RE: RE: The chickens coming home to roost
~Hi, Mario!
~The New York Times a left-wing publication? That's news to me!
~And, as a
~student of journalism, of immense importance to me.
~Thanx for that vital information!
~Regards, RKN
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[Goanet]Indians - Most Prosperous Asians in America

2004-12-17 Thread Peter D'Souza

##
# Goanetters-2004 meet in Goa. Dec 21, Tuesday. 12 noon to 2 pm. #
# Clube Vasco, Near Municipal Garden, Panjim. Pass the word around!  #
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~From the Los Angeles Times, December 16, 2004
http://tinyurl.com/48dar
Stark Contrasts Found Among Asian Americans
The  group?s  average family income tops the overall U.S. figure.
But while Indians prosper, Cambodians, Laotians and Hmong  strug
gle.
By Teresa Watanabe and Nancy Wride Times Staff Writers,
December 16, 2004
Indian Americans have surged forward as the most successful Asian
minority  in  the  United States, reporting top levels of income,
education, professional job status and English?language  ability,
even  though  three?fourths  were foreign?born, according to U.S.
census data released Wednesday.
The striking success of Asian Americans who trace their  heritage
to  India contrasted with data showing struggles among Cambodian,
Laotian and Hmong immigrants. Those three groups reported contin
ued  significant  poverty  rates,  low job skills and limited En
glish?language ability since their flight from war and  political
turmoil.
The  report,  "We  the  People: Asians in the United States," was
based on 2000 census data and underscored the enormous  socioeco
nomic  diversity  among  the nation?s 10 million Asian Americans,
more than one third of whom live in California,  the  state  with
their largest population.
Asian  Americans  increased from 6.9 million, or 2.8% of the U.S.
population, in 1990 to 10.2 million, or 3.6%, in 2000.  Including
mixed?race  Asian  Americans, counted by the census for the first
time in 2000, the population was 11.9 million, or 4.2%.
"It is a community of contrasts," said Kimiko Kelly, research an
alyst  with  the Asian Pacific American Legal Center in Los Ange
les. "Asian Americans are seen as a model minority  who  are  not
suffering from barriers to education or progress. But if you look
closely, you see a community that covers the whole spectrum, from
wealthy to very poor."
She said the growing diversity of the community, which was mainly
Chinese, Japanese and Filipinos until  1965  immigration  reforms
were instituted, has multiplied the challenges facing service or
ganizations such as hers.  Translators  for  health  clinics  and
courts are among the pressing needs, she said.
The  contrasts are detailed in the report, which provides data on
such items as age, marital status, citizenship, language,  educa
tion,  earnings,  poverty  rates,  occupation  and home ownership
among 11 Asian American groups.
Median family income,  for  instance,  ranged  from  $70,849  for
Japanese  and  $70,708  for  Asian Indians to about half that for
Cambodians and Hmong. Indian men  showed  the  highest  full?time
earnings, $51,900, about double the figure for Hmong men.
About  64% of Asian Indians held a bachelor?s degree or more, the
highest rate, compared with 7.7% for Laotians and 7.5% for Hmong,
the  lowest.  More  than  three?fourths  of Indians and Filipinos
spoke fluent English, twice the rate for Vietnamese.
Max Niedzwiecki, executive director of  the  Southeast  Asia  Re
source  Action  Center  in Washington, D.C., said the differences
stemmed in part from different histories.  Many  Southeast  Asian
Americans  came  here  as refugees with less formal education and
with memories of traumatic experiences stemming from the  Vietnam
War and the murderous Khmer Rouge reign in Cambodia, he said.
In  contrast,  many  Asians  Indians emigrated voluntarily from a
relatively peaceful homeland and were equipped  with  strong  En
glish skills to pursue higher academic degrees or business oppor
tunities. Between 1990 and 2000, they doubled their population to
1.6  million  and  now  rank  as the third?largest Asian American
group after Chinese and Filipinos.
Take, for instance, Venkatesh Koka, a 36?year?old real estate in
vestor  in Artesia. The son of a civil engineer, Koka left a com
fortable life with servants in southern India to earn a  master?s
degree in business administration at Ohio University. As in other
upper?middle?class families, he had  attended  schools  with  in
struction  in  English  since his childhood, rendering him fluent
even though he has always spoken Telugu, an Indian  language,  at
home.
He  says  he  came  to  the  United States in 1986 after a friend
studying here lured him with wide?eyed stories  of  freeways,  an
easy life and good money.
Koka worked at a bank and initially lost $1.5 million in real es
tate deals, filing for bankruptcy in the mid?1990s.  Since  then,
he said, he has bounced back as manager of his family investments
and has increased their value from $3  million  to  $15  million.
This  year,  his family created the Little India Village shopping
plaza on Pioneer Boulevard in Art

[Goanet]Solemnity of Birthday of JESUS 25/12/2004

2004-12-20 Thread Peter D'Souza

##
# Goanetters-2004 meet in Goa. Dec 21, Tuesday. 12 noon to 2 pm. #   
# Clube Vasco, Near Municipal Garden, Panjim. Pass the word around!  #  
##

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From: godfrey gonsalves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|Just as other religions maintain due solemnity decorum
|during their festive days, ensure that Catholics do
|not turn Christmas as a "free for all" jumboree
Talking of solemnity and festive days, I was wondering if Doordarshan 
uses the same script on Good Friday each year to report that "Christians 
celebrated the feast with *traditional gaiety*"?  :-)

Peter D'Souza
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[Goanet]Tariq on Insourcing

2004-12-27 Thread Peter D'Souza

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From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| --- Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
|> [...] The US has gained far more jobs from foreign companies in the 
US than the jobs that have been outsourced, many to India.

|> And where are the statistics to back this argument?
Tariq,
Here are some statistics, and a response to another comment made by you 
follows:

~*
~  U.S. subsidiaries employ 5.4 million Americans.
~* U.S. subsidiaries support an annual payroll of $307 billion and 
pay, on average, 31% more than all U.S. companies.
~*
~  U.S. subsidiaries heavily invest in the American manufacturing 
sector. 34% of the jobs at U.S. subsidiaries are in manufacturing -- 
more than double the proportion of manufacturing at all U.S. companies.
~*
~  U.S. subsidiaries manufacture in America to export goods around 
the world -- accounting for over 20% of all U.S. exports.
~* New foreign direct investment (FDI) in the U.S. totaled $39.9 
billion in 2003.
~* In 2003, U.S. subsidiaries reinvested $38.6 billion in their U.S. 
operations.
~* U.S. Subsidiaries have spent $27.5 billion on U.S. research and 
development activities.

| In any case, your argument is one that is deeply flawed. Toyota and 
Honda have set
| up factories in the US to meet the demand of the US market. They are 
not building
| the factories here to export cars/trucks back to Japan.

So? What difference does it make *economically*? They are foreign 
companies with excellent products, they've created jobs in the USA and 
offer great value for money thereby helping the US consumer keep more 
money in his pocket and keep a few million Americans off the 
unemployment rolls. It is also worth noting that many Indian companies 
have returned the favour of outsourced jobs by employing Americans in 
their US-based operations.

If you've been listening to talk about "unfair balance of trade", you 
might want to read _Applied Economics_ by Thomas Sowell.

| -Tariq
Peter D'Souza
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Re: [Goanet]More on the malaria debate (important to Goa)

2004-12-27 Thread Peter D'Souza

Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:30:59 +0530 (IST)
From: "Frederick Noronha (FN)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

A mosquito net treated with a long-lasting insecticide costs less than US$4.
While we already have highly effective and well-tolerated antimalarial drugs
(artemisinin-based combination treatments; ACTs) to replace those drugs such
as chloroquine that have fallen to resistance. These cost less than US$1 per
child treated. Less than US$20 would guarantee a poor African child access
to life-saving interventions. The cost of a malaria vaccine will be in
excess of US$60 per full immunisation.
I'm perplexed as to why NGOs, scientific organisations and the UNDP 
don't talk
about the adverse effects of artemisinin-based combination treatments.
One of these drugs, Coartem (colloquially known as "the Chinese medicine"
in Mozambique), has a horribly debilitating effect on children and many 
adults.
My son--who was barely a toddler at the time a doctor first recommended 
this
drug--collapsed and lost the use of his legs for four days. It was traumatic
to watch this happen, and those four days seemed interminable. This drug 
(and
others of the same family) are often called "final line of defence" 
drugs, i.e.
do not use them if you don't need to.

Peter D'Souza
2x Malaria survivor :-)

[Goanet]Re: Tariq on Insourcing

2004-12-28 Thread Peter D'Souza

From: Tariq Siddiqui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In any case, a subsidary of a foreign company will create more jobs in the US than
vice versa (exactly) because of the size of the US market. 

Not necessarily. Case in point: TCS and Wipro do not create more 
U.S.-based jobs than they do  in Bangalore, Poona or Hyderabad. It is 
precisely the low cost of programer labour in India ($6/hour) versus the 
cost of  similar labour in the USA ($60/hour) which adds jobs to the 
country that gains western outsourcing contracts.

That also does not mean that jobs were lost in the home country of the foreign companies 
 

Quite right. In fact, the home country you refer to stands to gain jobs.
You still have not understood my argument. When Honda set up a factory in the US, it
did not close down a plant in Japan. Moreover, the product was meant for the US and
not for the Japanese market. 

That's right, but it's only a part of the picture. Honda could have chosen to 
produce more for the US market out of factories in Japan--and it would have 
helped the Japanese manufacturing and shiping industries, among others--but 
given the diminished marginal returns, it makes more sense to have them 
'insource' their operation to the United States. It is a classic case for the 
benefits of insourcing--benefits for the business (higher profits) and for the 
consumer (lower cost of manufacture, lower price).
Strong trade is not and will never be a zero-sum game. (In a zero-sum game a 
win for Indian exports must translate to a loss for its trading partner.)
To help you understand better, I have no problem if GM sets up a factory in China
and builds cars there for the local Chinese market. I would have a problem if GM
sets up a factory in China only to build cars for export to the US and closes down
factories here at the same time. 
   

Such a situation might mean a loss of American jobs in one sector 
(automobile), or even a part of a sector (automobile/factory workers), 
but it often translates into gains elsewhere. There was a great hue and 
cry when NAFTA passed in 199x, and the automobile industry in the USA 
lost 10,000 jobs almost immediately. The less publicised fact was that 
40,000 new jobs were created in the same region (Detroit) in the same 
industry over the next three years. The most recent Indian 
administrations seem to have understood that international competition 
is a "good thing" (TM).

There is also another aspect here that you should consider. If you outsource a
certain part of your business process because you need to have your employees
concentrate on other process to generate more revenue, that would also be
acceptable. 

Tariq, in the grand scheme of things this becomes a micro issue. Is it 
more acceptable if they outsource such a process to a domestic company 
as opposed to a foreign company? Will the company as a whole continue to 
be viable if it does so? It is a business decision to divide tasks 
between a local labour source and a foreign one. It may or may not have 
a significant bearing on an industry or the economy.

When you talk about "not having a problem" with a certain business 
model, or another one being "acceptable", you're essentially trying to 
create an equation which says that if one country gains jobs by trade or 
outsourcing, then the other country must necessarily lose. This pattern 
of thought left economies such as India very stunted for decades. The 
only ways by which a country to prosper are to establish rule of law, 
provide good education and allow free trade (in that order).

Peter

[Goanet]The UN's Abu Ghraib, Or Worse

2004-12-29 Thread Peter D'Souza

Do you suppose this will provoke the same kind of outrage and press 
exposure as the Abu Ghraib scandal? There were calls for Rumsfeld's 
resignation when the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, might there be similar 
calls for Kofi Annan's resignation? It will be interesting to watch this 
pan out.

PD'S
   *Sex for Food*
   The Wall Street Journal, December 29, 2004; Page A8
   Two years after the charges first surfaced, Kofi Annan has finally
   admitted that U.N. peacekeeping troops sexually abused war refugees
   in the Democratic Republic of Congo. "I am really shocked by these
   accusations," the United Nations Secretary-General told reporters
   last week.
   He shouldn't be. Allegations of sex crimes committed by U.N. staff
   and troops date back at least a decade and span operations on three
   continents, in places like Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Liberia and
   Cambodia. But rather than showing the kind of "zero tolerance"
   toward sexual crimes that Mr. Annan now promises, the U.N. has
   treated such instances with cavalier nonchalance.
   In Congo, some 150 cases are under investigation. The charges range
   from rape, in which some victims were children, to sexual
   exploitation. In some cases, women and young girls have been coaxed
   into sex in exchange for essential food items. A French U.N. staffer
   was arrested for raping underage girls and taking digital pictures
   of them. He has been sent back home where he will stand trial.
   U.N. officials reportedly are worried that if these pictures and
   other rape videos allegedly shot by U.N. troops find their way into
   the media, it could become the U.N.'s "Abu Ghraib." The difference,
   of course, is that the abuses in Iraq came quickly to light through
   the chain of command and were immediately prosecuted by the U.S.
   military. In contrast, the U.N. is investigating the cases in Congo
   only after much delay and even now is unwilling to "name and shame"
   the countries whose soldiers committed these crimes.

[Goanet]Religious Stamps

2005-01-17 Thread Peter D'Souza

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| From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| Subject: Re: [Goanet]GoanetReader -- Stamps from across the world,
viewed with faith
| Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:17:52 +0100
|
| Re the following paragraph of the write-up in Gomantak Times (see below):
|
| «While most stamps on show had been released by Catholic nations, what is
| equally interesting is that several Muslim nations have also released many
|>on various aspects of the life of Jesus and the Holy Family. "It showed
|>their true spirit of secularism," says Fr Cosme J Costa, well known writer
|>and priest at Pilar»,
Why would a Catholic priest, a religious man, be impressed with a spirit
of secularism? Can't one be very religious, tolerant and open-minded
without being secularist?
Quite sincerely,
Peter D'Souza
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[Goanet]Indians and Sham Marriages in the UK

2005-01-18 Thread Peter D'Souza

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The Scotsman
Tuesday, January 18, 2005
ANDREW BARROW
Key points
? Men jailed for arranging sham marriages for Indians to gain entry to UK
? UK 'partners' paid £5000 while 'clients' charged £1 in over 40
marriages
? Police say marriages were 'tip of the iceberg' of immigration scam
Key quote
"You grossly abused your daughter by giving your consent for her to be
involved in a bogus marriage. That I find to be particularly
objectionable" - Judge Simon Hammond when sentencing Zahida Amujee
Story in full TWO men who arranged for dozens of Indian citizens to go
through marriages of convenience with Britons in order to gain entry to
the UK were each jailed for four years yesterday.
Twenty-three other people received jail terms of up to three years for
their part in the racket.
More than 40 Indian nationals married British "stooges" controlled by
Salim Mullan, 50, and Ibrahim Umarji, 66. Such marriages gained the
Indians entry to Britain, and they were later able to claim residence
rights and, ultimately, citizenship.
"Clearly, this was a well-planned and sophisticated operation involving
recruitment of stooges in this country," Judge Simon Hammond said in
delivering sentence. "Some were flown to India and there was substantial
funding.
"It was a team job requiring different roles. Everyone knew that what
they were doing was unlawful. It was cheating and it prejudiced genuine
candidates.
"The sentence must reflect the public need to deter others in what was
for some a very lucrative scam."
Four members of the same family were among those beginning jail
sentences last night. Zainab Patas, her brother Ibrahim Hafeji and their
mother and stepfather were jailed after admitting being part of the
conspiracy.
The ceremonies were set up in an attempt to beat the UK immigration
system, with police saying the marriages were the "tip of the iceberg".
Patas, now 22, was said to have taken part in six bogus weddings - the
first when she was 16 - with the approval of her mother, Zahida Amujee,
who was also twice a scam bride. Patas was jailed for three years yesterday.
Appearing alongside her in the dock, Hafeji, 20, was jailed for 12
months for taking part in one wedding.
Their mother, 43, of Rockingham Close, Leicester, was jailed for 32
months for taking part in two weddings.
Judge Hammond told Zahida Amujee: "You grossly abused your daughter by
giving your consent for her to be involved in a bogus marriage.
"That I find to be particularly objectionable."
The court heard all money paid for the marriages was given to the
children?s stepfather, Abdul Samad Amujee, 56, who was jailed for one
year for taking part in one wedding.
The British stooges involved in the scam were all said to have been
recruited by Mullan and Umarji. Mullan, of Leicester, and Umarji, of
East Ham, London, were said to be the ringleaders.
They tempted the stooges with payments of up to £5,000 - although many
claim they never saw any money - and organised flights to India and the
bogus documents for immigration checks.
Mullan?s wife, Jahara, was jailed for 18 months after pleading guilty to
money-laundering. The court heard she had nearly £80,000 in two bank
accounts.
In all, 42 weddings took place - some in England and some in India.
The racket involved Indian men and women marrying British citizens of
Indian descent to pave their way for a life in England, Leicester Crown
Court was told.
Clients were each charged between £8,000 and £10,000 for the weddings,
which would take place in Leicester, Bolton, London or Mumbai, formerly
known as Bombay.
Fourteen of those jailed were women, many single mothers who had been
put under financial stress or were pressured by the ringleaders to go
through with the bogus ceremonies.
In recent years, the number of bogus marriages that have allowed
otherwise illegal immigrants to stay in the UK has soared dramatically.
Official figures show that in the first nine months of 2004, register
offices recorded 2,974 bogus weddings - compared with 1,725 over the
same period last year.
This article:
~  http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=61892005
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[Goanet]Re: Religious Stamps

2005-01-18 Thread Peter D'Souza

Santosh Helekar wrote:
	The word secularism has many meanings, all of which
	are good. In Indian and British English this word is
	commonly used to mean tolerance and respect for the
	right of an individual to hold or not to hold the
	beliefs of any religion. Secular people, irrespective
	of whether they are priests or not, consider all
	religions, as well as absence of religion, to be
	completely equal.
Santosh, the OED defines secular as "1. not religious, sacred, or 
spiritual. 2 (of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule."
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/secular?view=uk

Based on this quote from Chuck Colson's latest column, I am inclined to 
believe that the American English definition is not very different:
	"Why do militant secularists attempt to snuff out religious practice, 
even in prisons, where it is so desperately needed? Partly, it’s a 
fanatical hostility toward religion. But these efforts also reflect a 
serious misunderstanding both of the role religion should play in public 
life and of religion’s social benefits."
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/chuckcolson/printcc20050114.shtml

All of this is to say that I still find no reason as to why Fr. Cosme J. 
Costa of Pilar must be impressed with a spirit of secularism. He can 
maintain his commitment to Catholicism and be entirely tolerant of other 
religions without being a secularist.

Peter

[Goanet]Pravasi Divas

2005-01-18 Thread Peter D'Souza

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
| Pitroda, Bhagwati, Shyamalan among awardees
|
| by Eugene Correia
|
| Mumbai: Fifteen people of Indian origin were honoured
| with the Pravasi Bharatiya Samman Awards on the concluding day
| of the third Pravasi Divas in Mumbai on Jan. 9.
| Three of them are based in the United States -- Dr.
| Sam Pitroda, the man who pioneered the
| telecommunications era in modern India as Technology
| Advisor to the late Indian Prime Minister Sanjay
| Gandhi, Prof. Jagdish Bhagwati, of Columbia
When was Sanjay Gandhi Prime Minister?
Another great editorial by Jagdish Bhagwati in today's Wall Street Journal.
Peter
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F9jBZAhJTBFaB9Se081VcAE=
=62Rs
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[Goanet]Re: Secular Stamps

2005-01-19 Thread Peter D'Souza

Jose Colaco said:
   Subject: [Goanet]Re: Secular Stamps
   ooops! what does
   http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/secular?view=uk also
   say
   "secular /sekyoolr/  • noun a SECULAR priest.
Jose,
I think secular priests are also known as PINOs, that is priests in name 
only. ;-)
Peter

[Goanet]@Calangute.net

2004-04-06 Thread Peter D'Souza

FYI -- free webmail accounts @calangute.net, no taglines added to your
e-mail messages.

Peter D'Souza


##
# Send submissions for Goanet to [EMAIL PROTECTED]   #   
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/  #  
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others  #
##

[Goanet]Gabe menezes on Market Forces

2005-05-17 Thread Peter D'Souza

Gabe Menezes made this comment:
	I too agree with this disagreeable policy of the USA and Britain, 
trying to impose market forces on people barely able to feed themselves, 
a bloody shame!
--

Gabe,
FYI, market forces cannot be imposed on anyone by anyone. By definition 
they are dynamic and can't be controlled. They are subject to variables 
such as supply and demand.

Peter D'Souza

[Goanet]Re: Goa, National Geographic, Amazon and Congo...

2005-05-17 Thread Peter D'Souza

Fred Noronha asks:

Could anyone confirm that National Geographic had this mention? FN

Fred,
Check this link at National Geographic: *http://tinyurl.com/8eol5

*The blurb on the site says:

Treasured watershed of India, these coastal mountains feed
grasslands, forests, and a burgeoning human population. Biologist E.
O. Wilson introduces a series examining such hotspotsamong Earths
richest ecosystems.

Peter

>> The Western Ghats, which form most of eastern Goa, have been 
>> internationally recognised as one of the biodiversity hotspots of the 
>> world. In the February 1999 issue of the National Geographic Magazine, 
>> Goa was compared with the Amazon and Congo basins for its rich tropical 
>> biodiversity.
>

[Goanet]Meu Caro Afra

Ricardo Nunes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Should that be "Minha Cara Afra"? I'm really confused as to the identity
of the Afra persona.

>Meu Caro Afra:
>
>I fully agree with you. A quarter of a million years ago Africa was the only
>civilized continent.
>
>In the beginning we were all Afros and our great-granny was a black girl.
>Later on (uns dias mais tarde) a few became Afras.
>

[Goanet]Re: Acres of Diamonds

Hey Santosh,

While it's true that this story is quite exaggerated, it hardly falls
into the typical "scam". To call it a scam is an exaggeration, and I
can't help but note the irony. The original story is very inspiring,
indeed, and the little girl's motives were as admirable in the
exaggerated version of the story as they are in the original.

It's sad that the Temple Baptist building has fallen into desuetude, but
I'm glad that they haven't destroyed this magnificent piece of architecture.

Peter D'Souza

>From: Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Goanet]"Acres of Diamonds".
>
>--- Cynthia Fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>>This is a true story, which goes to show WHAT GOD
>>CAN DO WITH 57 CENTS.
>>
>>
>>False! This story is an urban legend. Please see the
>>following link to find out how we are being scammed by
>>it:
>>
>>http://www.snopes.com/glurge/57cents.asp
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Santosh
>>

Re: [Goanet] Acres of Diamonds

Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> asks:

Do you want to excuse people (or encourage them) for
spreading "inspiring" urban legends and chain emails
through Goanet?

Santosh,

I look at intent. That was an inspiring story. Cynthia is a well meaning person 
and I don't think she intended to cause alarm, make you waste extra bandwidth 
by asking you to pass the e-mail on to everyone in your address book, leave you 
with false hopes of earning a million dollars because Bill Gates would be 
tracking your chain letter, make you send a postcard to a young boy dying of 
cancer at non-existent address in the United Kingdom...none of that. All she 
did was to pass along an inspirational story. For your peace of mind treat it 
as inspirational fiction. Put one of your copyrighted disclaimers at the end of 
her message: "The above statement is false". This isn't something to get 
alarmed about and I honestly don't know if anyone breathed a sigh of relief 
after they saw your warning about this "scam". As they say on North Broad 
Street (home of Russell Conwell's Temple University) "Yo, chill!"

Peter

Re: [Goanet] In America, the crows stick to the garbage

Hey Cornel,

If you look though the logs circa October last year, you will find Mario 
agreeing with many of my postings, those of Chris Vaz and the postings of a few 
others as well. There are a number of us on this list, general lurkers, whose 
views are well represented by Mario. I personally have less energy to defend 
America than Mario does (God bless him) and I also believe that most so-called 
liberals are actually very closed-minded, consequently I spare myself the 
futility.

Mario also has more patience with people who are uncomfortable with facts and 
logic, so more power to him in his quest to educate America-haters, those 
opposed to a free Iraq, and the French.

Sincerely,

Peter D'Souza

--


From: "cornel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: Re: [Goanet] In America, the crows stick to the garbage
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:13:15 +0100
Reply-To: goanet@goanet.org

Santosh,
What we have in Mario is the revisionist of American history. Like you, I do 
not find his versions persuasive at all, despite trying hard to keep an open 
mind. How can anyone who believes that everyone else, on any topic, is 
wrong, except himself, like some great Oracle, be taken seriously? That, 
surely, is the question Mario has to attend to.
Cornel

Re:[Goanet] In America, the crows stick to the garbage

2005-06-15 Thread Peter D'Souza


Peter D’Souza wrote:
I also believe that most so-called liberals are
actually very closed-minded, consequently I spare
myself the futility.

Santosh Helekar responded:
Do you mean to say that the so-called liberals are
actually very conservative, and are not open to other
points of view?

PD'S:
	No. I did not say that they are "very conservative". 
	Conservatives are recovering liberals (most of us anyway).


SH:
Who according to you is an America-hater? One who
disagrees with the policies of the present U.S.
administration?

PD'S:
	People who are opposed to the United States' actions when 
	it acts as a force for good in this world, people who casually 
	equate Guantanamo Bay with the gulag and Nazi concentration camps,

people who liken George Bush to Hitler, popular entertainers who
	criticise America on foreign soil, people weren't happy when Saddam 
	Hussein was captured (many of whom were actually sad, for fear that
	it would translate to election losses for the Democrat party), people 
	who weren't willing to admit that the Iraqi elections were one of the

greatest celebrations of freedom in Mid-East history, people who make 
lame
threats about migrating to Canada if a conservative president is elected
...they're the common culprits.

	In regard to people who disagree with the present administration: 
	Personally, I disagree with the present administration on many issues, 
	but I love this country dearly. I do not instinctively support the

the present administration, but I do share its conservative ideology.
There are others who disagree with the present administration 
instinctively,
I've identified some of them above.

SH:
Who according to you is opposed to a free Iraq? One
who disagrees with the policies of the present U.S.
administration?

PD'S:
	This is not "according to me", sorry. Those opposed to a free Iraq were very 
	vocal in opposing America and Britain's desire for a regime change in Iraq. Those who 
	supported a free Iraq choose to put their money where their mouth is by sending 
	troops and other help in the effort to toople Saddam and his evil Baathist regime.


SH:
Does an America-lover have to be a hater of the French?

PD'S:
Non, monsieur. You can hate everyone and still be truly French, 
n'est-ce pas?

Peace,

Peter

Re: [Goanet] In America, the crows stick to the garbage

2005-06-16 Thread Peter D'Souza

Marlon Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Peter,
The logs also reveal that Chris Vaz made some rather
racist comments on the Arab community in Michigan. I'm
sure you dont agree with those comments of his!

Marlon,

If my memory serves me correctly, Chris used the term "ilk" in what seemed like 
a pejorative use of the word. He could have just as easily substituted another 
word or phrase (such as "the Arab comunity in Michigan" or whatever) to make 
his point without giving Tariq or anybody else an opportunity to take offense. 
He seemed to be making a generalisation, and generalisations as a rule are 
based on common reality. I do not use the word "racist" lightly and would not 
call Chris Vaz a racist for his remarks. Many people on this forum object more 
to the messenger than the message and will allow deliberately twisted logic to 
attack the messenger when they have no real counter argument. When I mentioned 
Chris Vaz, it was in the context of Cornel's allegation that Mario doesn't 
agree with anybody else on the forum.


Likewise, your bunching of groups into two political
categories, viz, liberals and conservatives is overly
simplistic. There are many of us who would like to see
social security, welfare, medicaid and other excuses
for excessive government spending abolished. We would
like to see unfettered free trade and an end of
immigration quotas to allow the import of unlimited
labor from abroad to allow industry to reduce its
labor costs and to use the best the world has to
offer. Coversely, we do not want a big, intrusive
government imposing its moral values on us or telling
us how to behave or think.

Marlon, you are absolutely correct in this. I have, in fact, simplified the 
issue. When I was talking about conservatives I was thinking of "hawks" and 
cultural/social conservatives, I should have specified.

While the conservative crowd has generally been pro
business (although this is not a hard and fast rule,
specially wrt open immigration), it has an increasing
component of the intolerant religious right.

I am disinclined to associate immigration *policy* with business policy. I am 
very pro-immigrant and think that President Bush's proposals are about the most 
clever, decent, compromise on the subject. It illustrates a respect for the 
intent of the law while making a slight compromise on the letter of the law. 
Conservatives are often divided on the subject of imigration. You will find 
folks like Tamar Jacoby writing in favour of the Bush plan on the pages of the 
Wall Street Journal, and other like Michelle Malkin writing on Townhall.com in 
favour of coming down hard on illegal residents. There is more debate among 
conservatives than most people are willing to admit.

Your remark about the "intolerant religious right" (IRR) is entirely misplaced. 
Please spend some time with people whom you believe are part of this religious 
right. Perhaps you are associating Christian Nation hate groups and the KKK 
with the religious right? Let me tell you something: I live in deeply 
conservative country. The city I live in has several mega-churches, including 
the third largest church in the USA. There is a church on almost every corner. 
It is what most opinionated social and political liberals might describe as a 
bastion of right wing fundamentalist Christians (on a good day) or the IRR. 
There's another side to this city and it's more rural neighbourhoods, though: 
it has a large Klan presence and on at least one occasion I have had some of 
that hate directed at me. In fact, the assistant Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux 
Klan in America lives about three miles from my home. You might think, 
therefore, that all this makes it a hotbed of religious intolerance. But this 
isn't the case, it most definitely is not. This is the friendliest town that 
I've lived in, I love it here. I attend an evangelical church with about 350 
people you'd probably label as being part of the IRR--and I happen to be the 
only non-white adult there--but I've never been in a friendlier church. My kids 
are among the most loved by parents and other kids. It is comfortable, even for 
people whom you might think are perfect targets for intolerance. People outside 
of churches are also very friendly.

My hunch is that you have heard that term used liberally in the media and 
seriously believe that a large voting bloc of intolerant people do exist. The 
media are frequently disconnected from reality, which you probably know. I 
heard of a case where a fellow asked a roomful of about 30 journalists whether 
any of them personally knew somebody who was homosexual, to which everybody 
raised their hands. He then asked if anybody personally knew an evangelical 
Christian, to which three of the journalists present raised their hands. So 
there you have it, they're thoroughly acquainted with a tiny minority of the 
population and completely disc

[Goanet]Acres of Diamonds

2005-06-16 Thread Peter D'Souza

*Santosh Helekar asked: *

Peter,

Do you think there is any harm in pointing out that
this "inspiring" story is an urban legend? Do you
think we should let people forward fake chain letters
to public forums without being corrected?


Santosh,

The 57-cents story truly warms the cockles of my heart. You didn't harm
anybody by pointing out the errors, and neither did Cynthia's letter
harm anybody. I'm sorry that you wasted much emotion in doing so.
Peter

[Goanet]In America, the crows stick to the garbage

2005-06-16 Thread Peter D'Souza

/Marlon Menezes writes:///

Personally, I dont give a hoot that people in Iraq may
have been suffering under Saddam's rule, just I do not
really care about the the genocide in Sudan or the
fact that women are being raped over there.
[deletia]

Evil is all relative. I am sure there are many of us
(me included) who would not hesitate to legally work
with the Saddam regime if we could profit from it.
[deletia]

Marlon,
I really wish I didn't know this about you.
Peter

[Goanet]Re: Acres of Diamonds

2005-06-17 Thread Peter D'Souza

Santosh Helekar writes:
>From my standpoint, perpetuation of falsehoods under
any guise causes grave harm to society, and a
gratuitous defense of it adds insult to injury.

Peter responds:
Santosh, mea culpa. Pardon my ignorance of the magnitude of
Cynthia's offense. I had no idea that it had or could cause
"grievous harm" to anybody and have serious societal consequences.
Personally, I am sorry for causing you such injury. If only I had
realised that you felt injured, I'd have done my best not to add
insult to it.

Santosh (continued):
You fail to see the simple fact that stating that I
did no harm in pointing out the errors, is at odds
with your claim that I wasted much emotion in doing
so.

Peter responds:
Mea culpa again--I never once thought that wasting emotions was harmful.

Santosh (continued):
I don't think you can read my emotions, if for nothing
else then for the well-recognized difficulty of doing
so across the gaping electronic void of cyberspace.

Peter responds:
Mea maxima culpa. You're such a logical and (seemingly) rational
fellow, that when you used an exclamation mark in your original
posting about this alleged "scam" it seemed like you were quite
upset. You're right, emotions never are communicated too well in
cyberspace.

Santosh (continued):
The irony of it is that if you had not tried to be
gratuitously and pointlessly defensive about this
urban legend, from a habitual and exclusive purveyor
of such myths, the matter would have ended, as far as
I am concerned, with my rather bland and clearly
unemotional first response on this thread.

Peter responds:
Gratuitous, yes; defensive, no. All I did was to point out that the
anecdote was meant to inspire and (in my opinion) did nobody any
harm. You're a researcher (from what I understand), and you tell me
that society has been caused "grievous harm", so I will wait for
you to supply proof of such grievous harm and injury to society.
 

Santosh (continued):
So I ask you, why did you invest your time (not
emotion, because I cannot tell) into this? Was it
worth it? Or was it a waste of your time?

Peter responds:
Santosh, I might have wasted time, but it was well worth the
emotion. It gave me a lot of grins and giggles.

Santosh (continued):
Are you open-minded enough to recognize that you are wrong
about defending urban legends, even inspiring religious ones?

Peter responds:
You are implying that I am wrong. There is no right or wrong when
you're merely explaining the motive behind sending out a chain
letter.

Here's something that you don't know about me: I routinely respond
to chain letters when they contain information that may damage
individuals or corporations, or create a false sense of vindication
for a person's religious belief or ideology. I have done this for
chainletters concerning Bill Gates (whom I dislike), Ted Kennedy
(ditto) & Donald Rumsfeld (like), Procter & Gamble (agnostic),
Einstein (agnostic), patriotic paintings on rocks (like), Neiman
Marcus cookies, "I love Jesus" virus...and several others. Many
months ago Cynthia sent out a chain letter to this group which
contained falsehoods, so I promptly wrote her privately and
explained that it was false. She was very thankful that I'd pointed it
out to her, and I also told her about snopes.com and advised her to
check it out. If I read one of her postings that could possibly be
harmful, I will definitely notify her. In your quest for truth you
simply seem to lose perspective of what really matters. Or perhaps
your perspective is that every little thing matters. A couple of cases
in point (I'm relying on memory here):
Cynthia had a posting about what to do in the event of a tsunami,
it contained a lot of useful advice. You proceeded to tear it
apart. At the end of it all I don't think you really helped
anyone, and I don't think Cynthia harmed any one. Ditto for your
response to Mario's forward concerning AIDS needles. "Look before
you sit"...no harm done.

Hope that helps clarify.

Peter

[Goanet]Re: Malaria, Africa ... and Goa

2005-06-17 Thread Peter D'Souza

Fred Noronha writes:

One might be wrong, but in Goa, the issue of malaria seems
to have gone off the radar of public concern. Even the
enthusiasm that was visible in the early and mid 'nineties
seems to have vanished.

Can we afford to be complacent over this? FN

BTW June 16 is the day of the African Child. Large numbers die of 
malaria each year, and many get orphaned by AIDS.


Fred,

What kinds of drugs do they use to treat Malaria in Goa? In 
Mozambique (and possibly in most parts of Africa) the doctors give you a 
week's worth of chloroquine tablets and leave it to you to take your 
daily dose. The huge majority of people feel better after the second day 
(or just enough to get past the relapse period) and stop taking it. This 
has horrible effects on their health. Chloroquine is resistant to the 
falciparum strain of malaria--the most prevalent in Africa (and in Goa, 
I think?).

There is a tendency among wealthier nations to believe that 
life's problems can be solved with enough money thrown at them, i.e. if 
we give Africa more money it will take care of the malaria problem. The 
U.N. has invested heavily in malaria prevention and treatment (and 
possibly eradication), enough to make a significant dent in the number 
of malaria-related deaths, but it hasn't helped any.
   
Peter

[Goanet]Re:In America, the crows stick to the garbage

2005-06-21 Thread Peter D'Souza

Santosh Helekar wrote:

If some liberals like you recovered to being
conservatives than at least some liberals must be
open-minded. Are you now as a conservative open-minded
enough to switch back to being a liberal?

Peter responds: 
Liberals can often be correctly accused of being open-minded. 
It does not necessarily come with the territory, though.

Santosh continues:

How about people who liken a Democratic president to
Stalin? Are they America-haters?

Peter (cont'd):
I don't know the context of your remark. I do know that people 
who loosely liken the actions of a president of a democratic 
country, such as the USA, to those of Hitler and Stalin are
genuinely deluded or motivated by hate.

>popular entertainers who criticize America on foreign
>soil

Santosh (cont'd):

By "criticize America", do you mean criticize the
policies of a Republican administration? Is the
democratic right to dissent confined within the U.S.
borders?

Peter (cont'd):
The issue is not one of rights. The issue is one of taste,
good judgment, choice of audience and purpose.

Santosh asks:

Was capturing Saddam Hussein part of a political
strategy to win the election for the Republican party?
If so, are these people America-lovers?

I don't know if it was part of the strategy. It certainly 
came close to failing. 

>Personally, I disagree with the present administration 
>on many issues, but I love this country dearly. 

Santosh (cont'd):

What are your disagreements?

Concessions to the PLO, soft stance on Saudi Arabia and
North Korea, waiting for the UN to act on Sudan, low pressure
on Mugabe (and, by extension, Mbeki), low pressure on China's
human rights record, steel tariffs (since removed), farming
subsidies, huge spending, no use of line-item veto, 

>There are others who disagree with the present
>administration instinctively, I've identified some of
>them above.

Santosh (cont'd):

I assume that you do not instinctively label as
America-haters those who instinctively disagree with
the present administration.

Peter (cont'd):
That would be a fair assumption.

>Those opposed to a free Iraq were very vocal in
>opposing America and Britain's desire for a regime
>change in Iraq. 
>

Santosh (cont'd):

Are you open-minded enough to consider the possibility
that these people disagreed that military invasion was
the only option? Are you now opposed to a free North
Korea or a free Saudi Arabia?

Peter (cont'd):
It is entirely possible that many liberals believe that
a military invasion was not the only option. What I haven't
seen is the "other option". The repetitive series of
resolutions passed by the UN are testimony to the fact
that most opponents of resolution-by-war are, in fact,
opposed to action of any sort. Perhaps delaying was the
other plan?

Santosh (cont'd):

Are you France-hater? Do you think it is appropriate
to use the word French as a derisive epithet? If so,
why?

A verité est que je n'adore pas la France ou les français.
Regarding use of French as a derisive epithet, there are times
and contexts in which many nouns can be used derisively. A 
simple study of common metaphors will confirm this. In the 
context of the war the French intransigence was less than
commendable.

Peter

Re: [Goanet] Debunk hoaxes, then use common sense

2005-06-22 Thread Peter D'Souza

--- Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>4. No matter what anybody says, urban legends and
>>plagiarized material would continue to be
>>disseminated by people who do not know what to do with their
>>spare time and energy.
>>
Santosh,
For a fellow who claims to live by facts, you're making one huge
assumption about people's spare time and energy.
Peter

[Goanet]Thousands mob beach in 'diamond' rush

2005-06-30 Thread Peter D'Souza

Okay folks, I stand corrected: An 'acres of diamonds' story can indeed
cause grievous harm to society.

Very sincerely,

Peter D'Souza
--

> From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050629/od_nm/india_diamonds_dc_1
> 
> An excerpt from the article above:
> 
> Thousands of people have been flocking to a beach in
> India's financial hub in a manic diamond rush, but
> police said Wednesday the stones were fakes and warned
> them to stay away after one treasure hunter was drowned.

[Goanet]Ubuntu Linux Cds Avalable in Goa for Free

2005-06-30 Thread Peter D'Souza

Just a quick word of endorsement regarding Clinton Vaz's Linux CD
offer: Ubuntu Linux is one of the finest operating systems around. I
have been using Ubuntu Linux as my primary OS and am very pleased--no
worries about Windows spyware, Windows viruses and the like. I'd dump
Windows altogether if I didn't require it for work. So call Clint and
pick up your Ubuntu Linux CDs today. There's a 'LiveCD' which lets you
test Linux without even having to install Linux on your PC. And
there's the "Hoary Hedgehog" CD which does allow you to install Linux
on your PC hard drive.

Peter D'Souza
--

Clint Vaz wrote:
Just a short note to inform everybody that I have a few Ubuntu Linux
Cds that can be given out for free to anybody that desires.

The Free Cds will be made available at my shop in Margao for those who
are interested. Mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call me at 9822123535
before you decide to collect your cds.

Clinton..

Re: [Goanet] How did science begin?

2005-06-30 Thread Peter D'Souza

Santosh Helekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Fr. Ivo,
[...]

2. You conveniently gloss over the fact that the Bible
and traditional Christian theology contain beliefs and
explanations about natural phenomena that modern
science has shown to be completely wrong.

Santosh,
What explanations of natural phenomena are you referring to?
Peter

Re: [Goanet]Re: George Pinto's patently faux story .....

2005-07-01 Thread Peter D'Souza

Marlon Menezes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> asks:
> Joe,
> 
> How does questioning the authenticity of Jesus's
> alleged miracles constitute a "gruesome attack" on
> christianity! [...]

> Marlon
>

Marlon,
In the same way that an inspirational story can cause "grievous harm" to
society. Perhaps?
Peter

[Goanet] Immigration versus Emigration (Plus a Language Query)

2006-02-17 Thread Peter D'Souza

Mario,

I believe Mario is correct. This is what I found on 
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/emigrate.html
and it includes an easy way to remember:

   "To “emigrate” is to /leave/ a country. The /E/ at the beginning of
   the word is related to the /E /in other words having to do with
   going out, such as “exit.”
   “Immigrate,” in contrast, looks as if it might have something to do
   with going /in,/ and indeed it does: it means to move into a new
   country. The same distinction applies to “emigration” and
   “immigration.” Note the double /M/ in the second form. A migrant is
   someone who continually moves about."

Talking of language, what form of the following sentence is more commonly used 
in Goan/Indian, British, Aussie, other English?
1. Tony looked out the window.
2. Tony looked out of the window.

I find that the second form is not used very much in the USA, and I know that 
its equivalent is not used in Portuguese. It seems to imply that the person 
talking is physically inside the window (part of the woodwork), as opposed to 
being on the other side of it. I also found this second form in the Chronicles 
of Narnia, which leads me to believe that it has been in declining usage in the 
last century.

Peter

--
From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] RE: Migrating from Immigration ani Chol Voss!
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Viviana,
The words work as follows, using myself as an example:
1. I EMIGRATED to the United States FROM India (one
EMIGRATES FROM one place TO another)
2. I am an IMMIGRANT in the United States (an
IMMIGRANT comes TO a place from someplace else where
they EMIGRATED from) 

--- Viviana <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I was taught in school (okay, in the last century)
> that IMMIGRATION is 
> from one country to another, EMIGRATION is within
> one country. One 
> immigrates to another country but is a migrant
> within one's own country. 
> Don't know if this is how it is understood today.

[Goanet] Why plaintext...


Fred,

There are doubtless many good reasons to have plaintext for a mailing 
list. But, given the extra education involved in getting everyone who 
posts to this list to use text-only, it might be easier to use a MIME 
attachment stripper. Since this mailing list uses Mailman, you might 
want to look at options such as:


   Phred: http://www.phred.org/~alex/stripmime.html.
   demime: http://majordomo.squawk.com/njs/demime/index.html
   MIMEDefang: http://www.mimedefang.org/

Peter D'Souza
---
From: Frederick Noronha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: [Goanet] Why plaintext...
To: 
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO8859-1

This is for all the guys complaining that Goanet "censors" non-plaintext 
mail... Check the URL below please. -FN

http://www.expita.com/nomime.html

Configuring Mail Clients to Send Plain ASCII Text
Index (5 topics)

[Goanet] Dubya goes to India


Viviana,

Thanks for posting this very insightful article. The timing of President 
Bush's visit, right on the heels of President Clinton's, might just make 
the contrast between two presidents stand out. On the one hand there's 
the one who was and is wildly popular, who watched Pakistan and India 
tease each other with nuclear weapons, and the other who has done more 
for the subcontinent than any other American head of state, and remains 
generally unpopular in spite of it.


Peter

   Subject: [Goanet] Dubya goes to India
   To: Goanet@Goanet.org


   The article in its entirety can be found
   at.http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1635835,0035.htm

   Dubya's "L'Affaire India'"

   Pramit Pal Chaudhuri

[Goanet] Dubya goes to India (II)


Well, I may be wrong. Bush might be more popular than I'd thought.

According to an AC Nielsen poll published in Outlook India, Bush is 
regarded as a friend of India:

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20060306&fname=Cover+Story&sid=1

The same poll asked the question "Who’s better for India—George Bush or 
the last president, Bill Clinton?"

43% say Bush is the better of the two, while 49% preferred Clinton.

Peter

**

[Goanet] India’s sea turtles lose out in touri sm battle