Re: [Goanet] Dev borem Korum - Need word in Konkani

[Sebastian Borges]

Ixttano,
The native Konkani word for beach is "vell", a feminine noun in which the sound 
of e is open. Hence the plural (beaches) is "vello" (the e is open but the o is 
closed.)
"Doryadeg" is not an apt synonym. "Dorya" = sea and "deg" = margin/border/edge 
as in "kapddadeg" = border/margin/edge of a sari. Hence this means sea-coast, 
which is not necessarily a beach. 
"SamudraKinari" does mean beach in Marathi, but not in Konkani. According to 
Dalgado, the Konkani words "samudra/som'dir" = sea, ocean and "kinari" = 
margin, brink, border, side; hence "samudrakinari" means seaside (or even 
seafront) in Konkani. Perhaps this is what prompted Reis Falcao to pose his 
query, although he did not specify the context.

The Portuguese word "pao" (with a tilde on the a that Goanet does not support), 
pronounced "panv" in Konkani and "pav" in Marathi, is one of the Konkani words 
for bread. Konkani has many words each of which refers to a specific variety of 
bread. "Panv" is used for the baker's loaf; the rustic Saxttikar has his own 
native term "unddo" for the same. Other specific terms (which are not synonyms 
of each other) are "bhakri", "polli", "pollo", "sandonn", "koilolli", 
"kailolli" the list is almost endless. But in European usage bread/pao have 
wide meanings like, for instance, earning one's bread. In Our Father we say 
"Give us this day our daily bread" (ENG) or "Pao nosso de cada dia" (PORT). But 
in the translation of this prayer in Doutrina Christam, Fr. Thomas Stephens (an 
English Jesuit) does not use "unddo" or "panv" for bread, since,in the context 
of the prayer bread stands for food/sustenance; hence "unddo" would be 
inappropriate. He used the Konkani
 word "gras" instead. But while translating "loaves" in KristPurann he does use 
"undde". 
Not only does "pau" mean quarter in Konkani, but it also means stick in 
Portuguese! 

Mog asum.
Sebastian Borges
 
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 Jose Fernandes  wrote:

*Manestamno,Inglezintlea
'Beaches' hea utrak Konknni utor
'Vello.'
'Doryadego' oxem-i mhonnum yeta.*


*Ek Vell (feminine noun)  -  Don VelloDoryadeg  (feminine noun)
- DoryadegoMog asum,Jose Salvador Fernandes*
 
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 Venantius J Pinto  wrote:


So pao
yes, and not pau. Although I wrote pau, I inflect correctly to sound
pao,
but on a few occasions spelled pau (pau,n). Yet, conveys a paucity of
understanding.
I did not write in Konkani in India, and also saw the
representation
of our sounds strangely. It is not my mothers fault.

We are
removed from Portuguese (of course not all) for sure and that should
be
fine too, unless one insists to a Portuguese speaker (any) to settle pao,
and
worse pau instead of p?o, when said speaker in functioning/speaking in
Portuguese,
as opposed to in Konkani (pao).



On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 Domnic Fernandes  wrote:

I
think the word pau in Konkani means
quarter,
example: pau-xer (quarter
litre),
and the Portuguese word for bread is p?o though some write it as pao,
which
is fine. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you.



>
On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falc?o <

> drferdina...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
Is all seaside / seafront a beach?
>>
>>
Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falc?o.
>
 
 
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 "Dr. J. Colaco"  wrote:


Assuming
that Konkani is a dialect of Marathi, SamudraKinare (Sea side)
looks
like a good translation,

IF, on
the other hand, Konkani is a living language, then I suggest we use
the
word used by our mothers

jc

Sebastian Borges

Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum - Need a word in Konkani

[Venantius J Pinto]

+

Also no reason for us not to use/also use Obrigado.
Absolutely none although many will disagree. I do when in Goa.

Worse some will come up with inane notions like its the Language of the
conqueror!
But observe closely and one gets a sense of the forked tongues

+ + +

Also See archived in the PAST on Goanet at:
https://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg59385.html

Domnic
Fernandes

 Sat, 06 Mar 2010 18:30:31 -0800

: Prior to 1510, Goa was governed by different rulers, including Muslims. The
Portuguese took over Goa from the Muslims. Islam uses the word
'Allah'
(God) quite frequently. They, too, invoke God's name while
thanking
- 'Barak Allah-hu fik'. So, it's possible that we inherited
'Dev
Borem korum' from our previous occupiers, the Muslims.

 https://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg58982.html

Domnic Fernandes

 Sun, 07 Mar 2010 10:41:16 -0800

: Per my observation, the Bardezkar say "Dev borem korum", whereas the
Saxttikar say "Bor(em) zaum". Dominic also mentioned Faleiro's usage: Borem
zaum,

Sebastian Borges: Bore..m zaum, Bab zaum" "May you prosper, may you
beget a baby boy."


On 7 March 2010 20:20, Antonio Menezes point is commented upon by
Borges at https://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg59101.html

> note that unlike a ''thank you'' the ''Dev borem korun'' has no quid pro quo

> attached to it. .


Venantius



On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Antonio Menezes 
wrote:

> Mr. Rosario Abel Fernandes (Oct 13) was thanking Goanetters for their
> response to his query on veller/beach but I think  we Goans need a new word
> in
> Konkani  for Dev Borem Korum (DBK)/Thank You/Obrigado
> DBK(Tuka Devan  Borem Korum ) vaguely means let God (a third party ) be
> good to you for any favour done
> but there is no element of quid pro quo in in it as is evident in Thank You
> /Obrigado.
>



-- 
+
Venantius J Pinto

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem Korum - Need word in Konkani

[Jose Fernandes]

*Manestamno,Inglezintlea 'Beaches' hea utrak Konknni utor
'Vello.' 'Doryadego' oxem-i mhonnum yeta.*







*Ek Vell (feminine noun)  -  Don VelloDoryadeg  (feminine noun)
- DoryadegoMog asum,Jose Salvador Fernandes*

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 6:35 AM, rosarioabel fernandes <
rosarioa...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  [image: Boxbe]  This message is eligible
> for Automatic Cleanup! (rosarioa...@gmail.com) Add cleanup rule
> 
> | More info
> 
>
> I am grateful for the kind and favourable response
> given.  It was great help in moving forward with
> my work
>
> Dev Borem Korum
>
>

[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum - Need a word in Konkani

[Antonio Menezes]

Mr. Rosario Abel Fernandes (Oct 13) was thanking Goanetters for their
response to his query on veller/beach but I think  we Goans need a new word
in
Konkani  for Dev Borem Korum (DBK)/Thank You/Obrigado
DBK(Tuka Devan  Borem Korum ) vaguely means let God (a third party ) be
good to you for any favour done
but there is no element of quid pro quo in in it as is evident in Thank You
/Obrigado.

[Goanet] Dev borem Korum - Need word in Konkani

[rosarioabel fernandes]

I am grateful for the kind and favourable response
given.  It was great help in moving forward with
my work

Dev Borem Korum

[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum Joebab

[AURELIO VIEGAS]

Amchya Joebabachi konneim kitli-i kovtuk keli zalyar ti lhanuch astoli
karonn zo to vavr korta to khoryamnich kitlo vhodd tem sangpak mhoje lagim
utram nant. Aplo fottu to konnakui dakhovnk sodhinam nam mhonnllyar taka
koslich publicity naka vhelyan to aplo vell ghalun amkam veg-vegllyo khobro
dhaddtta. Tache Goyche fottu pollovn amchem mon xant zata. Goykarank
xit-koddechi ruch mhonnttoch to aple duddu moddun Goychya veg-vegllya
khanavollicher jevonn gheta ani  tache fottu kaddtta ani tech borobor Goyam
bhair aslolyanche  jiber lall haddta. Anik konnui potrkar zalolo zalyar
khoinchyai hottelant vochun fukott jevtolo aslo ani sangtolo aslo apunn
tumchya hottelachi jahirat kortam punn Joe Bab oslem kainch chintinam.
Konknnichya mogak lagon tannim CD, VCD, DVD-i  vikttyo ghevn ghorant ras
ghatlya ani tyo pollovpak taka babddyak vell nam, oxem to khud aplya
borovpant sangta. Atam hya mahan monxak amim kitem mhonnpacho? Sodhyak
itlench boroitam vell mell'llo zalyar ek dis porxim Goyant vochon Joe Babak
soddun kaddun tachi mulakhot jerul ghetolom. Joe Bab tum Goyam bhair
ravtolya Goykarancho dhir-adhar, tumcho ho vavr osoch chalu dovrunk tuka
Dhonia Bapa lagchyan bori bholaiki magtam. Anik ek pavtt chodd Dev borem
korum!
-Aurelio Viegas

[Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Dear MD,
I took a shot at translating the Thomas Stevens; SJ, verses, which you
posted. Do understand this is a rough attempt.

Dear Goans,
This is a rough translation but gives us a sense of the text. The same as it
earlier appeared, which I found at the link below it in a mass of other
texts. (ref: Saldana or Cunha, I think); is after my translation. This
version Cristapurana (Kristhapurana/Kristupurana) was printed at Rachol in
1616?!! Some details below.
http://www.archive.org/stream/journalasiatics16bombgoog/journalasiatics16bombgoog_djvu.txt

+++


O namo Vishwabharita, Deva Bapa Sarvasamartha-
 Hail, homage (Hallowed be) the Universal Deity, God Almighty (Father) All
Powerful

Parmeshwara Satyavanta, swarga prithvicha rachanara II 1II.
Infallible (Truthful) God Creator of heaven and earth II 1II.

Tu riddhi siddhicha dataru, krupanidhi karunakaru-
Thou art the Principle (embodying) of Abundance and Perfection, Merciful
Compassion

tu sarva sukhacha sagaru, aadi anta natude II 2II.
Thou art an Ocean of Eternal bliss, in the past, here and now, forever II
2II

Tu paramanandu sarvaswarupu, Vishwavyapaku dnyanadeepu,
Thou art Ecstasy Eternal, manifesting all forms (yet, no-form), light of
knowledge

Tu sarvaguni nirlepu, nirmalu nirvikaru swamiya II 3II.
Thou art the Absolute (in all strands, manifested in all forms) Equanimous
(unattached, undefiled), Pure Abiding (unchanging, ever there) Savior
(Teacher, who shows the Way) II 3II.
*
*
*Tu adrustu, tu avyaktu, samadayalu sarvapraptu-
Thou art Unwavering Absolute (implicit, yet subtle), as equally dull of
Mercy, Giver of all

*
*Sarvadnyanu sarvanitivantu, ekuchi devo Tu II 4II.*
Omniscient and Righteous Thou art One God II 4II.

Tu saxata Parameshwaru, anadasiddhu aparanparu-
Thou are the epitome of Beatitude substantiated beyond measure (limit)

Adi anadi avinashu amaru, tuze stavana triloki II 5II.
As it was in the beginning, is now and forever Everlasting without End,
Bestowed Praises by /in all of Creation II 5II
(Trikoki is a reference to Vedic cosmology)

+++

The Puran was first printed (J) at Rachol in 1616 after receiving
the imprimatur of the Inquisition, the Archbishop of Goa and the
Provincial of the Society of Jesus, a second time in 1649, and the
third time in 1654. Yet no printed copy has been traced anywhere,
and the only ones available are a few carefully written manuscript
copies.

The poem begins with an address to the Almighty God in which the
theology of the Nicene Creed about the God -head and the Trinity is
explained with the precision and fullness of a theologian and wealth
of language which only Sanskrit or Sanskritized Marathi could
lend {q\ We shall quote here the first few strophes :

Vo namo visuabharita
Deua Bapa sarua samaratha
Paramesu/zra sateuanta.

Suarga prathuuichea rachannara

Tu ridhy sidhicha dataru
Crupanidhy corunnacaru
Tu sarua suqhacha sagharu
Adi antu natodde

Tu poramanandu sarua suarf#pu
\^suaueapacu gneana dipu
Tu sarua gunn! nirlepu

Nirmallu niruicaru suamiya

Tu adrusttu tu auectu
Sama dayallu sarua praptu
Sarua gnoanu sarua nitiuantu
Yecuchi Deuo tu

Tu saqheata Paramesuaru
Anadassidhu aparamparu
Adi anadi auinassu amani
TuzS stauona triloqui

Suargu srustti tuu^ hella matrS
Quela chandru suryu naqhetrS
Tuzeni yeque sabdd pauitrS
Quely sarua rachana

+++

venantius j pinto


Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 01:25:06 -0700
> From: MD 
> To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
> Subject: [Goanet] Subject:  Subject: Re: Dev borem korum
>
>

> Mr. Pinto,
>
> Thanks for the detailed explanation.
>
> I do not know if you have read or come accross this,
> here is a sample of Old Konkani/Marathi stanza of
> 'Kristapurana' composed by English Missionary
> Fr. Thomas Stephens:
>
> Fr. Stephens started his acclaimed epic with the following couplets: -
>
> O namo Vishwabharita, Deva Bapa Sarvasamartha-
> Parmeshwara Satyavanta, swarga prithvicha rachanara II 1II.
> Tu riddhi siddhicha dataru, krupanidhi karunakaru-
> tu sarva sukhacha sagaru, aadi anta natude II 2II.
> Tu paramanandu sarvaswarupu, Vishwavyapaku dnyanadeepu,
> Tu sarvaguni nirlepu, nirmalu nirvikaru swamiya II 3II.
> Tu adrushtu, tu avyaktu,samadayalu sarvapraptu-
> Sarvadnyanu sarvanitivantu, ekuchi devo Tu II 4II.
> Tu saxata Parameshwaru, anadasiddhu aparanparu-
> Adi anadi avinashu amaru, tuze stavana triloki II 5II.
>
> Namo=namaskar
> Vishva=universe, bharita=filled?(combined=universal)
> (aadi anta natude = (past,present,future)
> sarva=all? samartha=able? (combined=all powerful?)
> Parameshwara=Almighty? (parama+ishwara, here Ishwara means supreme head,
> God)
> swarga pritvichea rachnara=Creater of heaven and earth
> (rachan=creation, rachnar=creator))
>
> rest is beyond me!!!
>
> I have only these couplets. I think this epic is published lately in
> Marathi in Mumbai.
>
> MORE BELOW:
>
> Believe me, we (those of us who remember) still recite the same way
> (in Konknni)(picked from a Goa related webs

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Hi MD,
You mentioned:
I have only these couplets. I think this epic is published lately in
Marathi in Mumbai.
++

It recently came out. That book, Kristhapurana is put out by Nelson Falcao,
SDB; a Salesian. I have my copies in India. One of which I intend to use for
a visual books project I have in mind. Directly painting on the text,
punching out areas, etc. Anyway. Its about Rs, 1000 I believe.

You may contact Nelson at "nelson falcao" , or try
Tej Prasarini. In fact I feel you guys could put together a function and
invite Fr. Falcao to talk along with other Konknnis--Goans, Maharshtrians et
all. I say this in the interest of language.


venantius j pinto

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Dhin'vastam, Dhanyavad to Dhonyavd.*

>From my earlier post:
dhin'vastam/ dinvas(tam), grateful, appreciative, thankful; Dinvas(i) is the
one (upkari) who is thanking/ conveying gratitude, as in Hanv tuzo upkari;
tuje upkar mantam.

Also: dhi/dhinv, to delight. nourish, satiate. dhin' vastam; dhin,
perception.

+++

*Dhonyavad from Dhanyavad, dhanyavAda m. praise, thanksgiving, give
applause.
vad, vAd, vAD, to utter.

Dhan means wealth, money, riches, fortune. It appears as a prefix as in,
Dhangar (shepherd, Shepherd), Dhandevata (Mammon), dhanko (wealthy, girest
Konk), dhandhanya (dhanya = grains, seeds, corn, etc), and Dhanapati (pati /
poti = Lord, master, husband, as also leader). Wealth in those days was
livestock as well as grains. dhan appears as a prefix in other .

Dhonyavad has to have its origin in the dhan/daulat of Dhanapati, the Lord
of wealth aka Kubera (God of the Fields). In the Christian sense perhaps the
materialistic wealth/ materialistic success, aspect was blunted. I surmise
Dhanya was given a connotation (to mean all things coming from a specific
bounty/things bountiful/the horn of plenty --- graces, blessings, success,
and including to cover all bases, the fount of all our materialistic
aspirations) and added vad(a)/ 1. a path, a choice (to move in grace), a way
(seeking help), 2. wisdom (ved(a)>>vada); theory. It is a word that
reaffirms one being. Unlike thank you, it configures your relationship in
the spiritual sense.

To conclude, Dhan(a)pati: pati/poti is ones lord, master, a leader, a
husband--not only in the earthly married sense, but one who husbands
resources as in a higher power. Dhonya+vad.
+

In the past we heard women say something on the lines of, Mozo poti ani mozo
soglo to. (My Lord and my all). This even when said in English was not meant
lightly, and I know one woman who was so exuberant when she said to me
pre-marriage what her to-be husband would mean to her. pati (husband),
apatitA (to be without husband, be in a state without a husband).

venantius j pinto

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Dear MD,
Here is my more direct attempt at sambaav and sambhaL. I should have done so
in the first place. Others can form their opinions. .

sambaav (sambhav) = saam has to do with an element of friendship, being
together, baav (bhav) = being. I do not feel this has to do with
brotherliness. So "sambaav", would have to do with---asking for
consideration towards oneself.

My earlier explanation still holds as in there we are seeing bhava as
attitude, so shades of bhava would change according to the nature of the
sambaav.

sambaL = care. protection

venantius j pinto


> From: Venantius J Pinto 
> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum
>
> MD: God  comes to our minds, mostly when we are in distress!!
> Then we plead: Deva maka/amkam paav' Deva amkam raakon vhor, Deva maka hya
> vignanthlem sambaav' =sambaL=sambalo-Hindi?)
>
> vjp: vignanthlem. vign(anth)lem. Vign(esh)war (Ganesh, Ganapati)
> sambaav ---sam is a prefix that joins with baav (bhav, bhaL). Bhav would be
> an attitude as in bhava/ s; Hanuman to Ram, beloved to lover, mother to
> child, etc .
> "sam" is to be with, together, Take me/regard me (worthy) into your bliss.
> Affect me into your blissfulness. The fears and pains to be takes away --
> the mind to be set light!
>
> Of course there is as you mentioned, sambaL, to take care
>
> ++
>

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Dear MD,
Just heard from Eddie Verdes of Edskantaram,
http://edskantaram.blogspot.com/2009/04/relatives-names-in-konkani-azo-great.html

To the right under H. Britton Songs, the third song is Pandu
Lampiav.
Did you mean Valoracho (dhonddo) instead of 'vollar'?


Thanks Eddie. This could be it.

venantius j pinto


MD: Also, any one has lyrics for 'vollar' pandu Lampiyaum'
>
> vjp: I along with our Dear Goans will do our best to track them for you.
>

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Edward Verdes]

Maurice Bab,
The Hymn is available on my blog under Konkani Devotional/Religious songs
No. 8.. 'Bhajan' by chitra from the audio CD 'Krist Rai Raiancho Rai' by 
Ivor D'cunha.

Also Lyrics of ' Pandu Lampianv' by H.Britton is under H.Britton songs..
check it out

http://edskantaram.blogspot.com/

Dev Borem Korum
Edward Verdes


On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 1:49 PM, MD  wrote:

Mr. Pinto, I find this fascinating. Hence my response:

There used to be a hymn 'Vandan tuka Somiya" here somiya is somi jezu
christ, or swami yesu Khrist.

What is the meaning of the word 'nirop'?
Also, any one has lyrics for 'vollar' pandu Lampiyaum'
I may be wrong, would appreciate responses.

MD 

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Dear MD,
MD said: I may be wrong, would appreciate responses.
vjp: Dear MD, you are being very gracious.
++

MD: 'Haum dinvastan' (if this means I thank, one has to indicate who one
thanks.

vjp: True when used in speech. In the case of learning conjugation perhaps
not so.
Interesting to know that that Dev borerm korun, is used cheers in the South
when imbibing drinks.
++

MD: I do not know what is hell known as, but we call 'yemkond' in the
South.

vjp: Hell in Konknni is narak, the GSBs use naraka and naraku, yemkond, and
ifern. Yemkond, Yama cho kund.
I grew up hearing ifern, although we did not speak Portuguese at home.
Remember the feast of Narkasur(a), [Narak(asur)a], ashura.
++

MD: ('Besaum di' in olden days, children used to ask for blessing of
adults after the daily night 'Rosary', while adults would great each
other, 'dev bori raath divn', mostly if a guest was present).

vjp: Still happens with my mother, and in maternal home in Batim, Goa,
although it is now somewhat automatic and a bit somnabulistic.
++

MD: God  comes to our minds, mostly when we are in distress!!
Then we plead: Deva maka/amkam paav' Deva amkam raakon vhor, Deva maka
hya vignanthlem sambaav' =sambaL=sambalo-Hindi?)

vjp: vignanthlem. vign(anth)lem. Vign(esh)war (Ganesh, Ganapati)
sambaav ---sam is a prefix that joins with baav (bhav, bhaL). Bhav would be
an attitude as in bhava/ s; Hanuman to Ram, beloved to lover, mother to
child, etc .
"sam" is to be with, together, Take me/regard me (worthy) into your bliss.
Affect me into your blissfulness. The fears and pains to be takes away --
the mind to be set light!

Of course there is as you mentioned, sambaL, to take care

++
MD: Is the greeting 'vondia or bondia' still prevelant in Goa? and has it
been derived from 'vandan'?

vjp: Vandan is a nuanced word. Sanskrit. To Hail and then offer prayers,
with reverence.
It is to love without reason. Love for its own sake. In this you are
worshiping the divine in a human.

I cannot say with any deal of certainly that  'vondia or bondia' is derived
from vandan, other than they appear to countervail each other. SOMEONE
PLEASE HELP.

It seems to be von + dia (dis). von is perhaps a disambiguation. Good
day. Further, bondia (bon + dia). Bom dia (good day). Borro dis diun.

++
There used to be a hymn 'Vandan tuka Somiya" here somiya is somi jezu
christ, or swami yesu Khrist. Even the Muslim names "Ibarham,
sulaiman' comes from Abraham, Solomon' etc.
'devasthan' we call 'divL' Hindu Temple' while 'devaL' denotes church.
'Deva maka paav' Deva amchi kakut kor' Deva maka boxi or 'saiba bogos'
somiya maka boxi' devak argam, vakhaNNi tukaa Krista' 'tuns
'Parameshwar'(You are supreme),

vjp: Thanks for putting this out.
Vandan is to give salutations. Vande mataram.
Suleiman directly corresponds to Soloman in meaning with various spellings
(certainly obvious in when Roman script is used for different languages) and
phonetics.
Sulaiman, Suleman, etc.

Parameshwar. Remember the Indian PARAM supercomputer, which was developed
after Indian was denied the Cray XMP, YMP if I am not mistaken?
Incidentally, Iraq got to have one or two perhaps.

parampara, High tradition.
++

'devasthan' we call 'divL' Hindu Temple' while 'devaL' denotes church.
vjp:
++
What is the meaning of the word 'nirop'?

vjp: nirop, would be to convey a message, intimate (gomoi), announcement /
communication something specific to someone.
Nirop dhaddlo, nirop di tenkam, dar tenkam.

I knew a few meanings, now know more on account of your asking.
1. message, permission; communication
2. farewell, parting; valediction
(Borkar, Thali, Ghanekar)
++

MD: Also, any one has lyrics for 'vollar' pandu Lampiyaum'

vjp: I along with our Dear Goans will do our best to track them for you.
++

I must add that your sense of phonetics is awesome. I learn as I go and lets
just say that I am fairly decent in certain areas. My interests stem from
getting a better grip on our consciousness. For all I know you may be a
lexicographer, a philologist, but thanks for sharing. I do what I can and
try to learn what I must for reasons to do with my being.

venantius j pinto


Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 03:49:46 -0700
> From: MD 
> To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
> Subject: [Goanet] Subject: Re:  Dev borem korum
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Mr. Pinto, I find this fascinating. Hence my response:
>
> 'Haum dinvastan' (if this means I thank, one has to indicate who one
> thanks.  Hence, it will be: Haum or ami tuka 'dinvastam = I or we
> thand you (In religious contect, is it or I, we,  praise you, worship
> you?)
> Havem or Ami Dinvasunk favo + we ought to thank?
> Haum thuka dinvastolon/ami thuka dinvastelyaum = we will thank you? (I
> you should do this favour, I,we 

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Goans all,
When I posed the "Dev borem korum" query in my misspell Konknni---it had to
do purely with an an interest in hearing what well meaning Goans had to say;
and to get people involved in finding out something generally taken for
granted. My concerns always have something to do with religion, sexuality
and in consciousness, as in this case.

There are various words and constructions in most given languages which
express similar ideas, yet they also convey who we are and where we stand.
Accordingly one decides whether to use particular word, a specific phrase,
or not. Many languages make use of loan words, whether recent, or having
been absorbed over the centuries. And in many situations one does not have
to be a borrower if one decides against using them.

Back to "Dev borem korun." To me the circle got completed by various strands
of though referring directly as also alluding to God---one of which being,
via "dinvastam" among other expressions. It may not automatically be a
Christian sense of God, as one would believe, but to my mind a sense of God
taken from our heritage, lineage and forebears---an evident desire to
attempt a  centered existence in belief of a higher power. Anyway people,
take a look at the following deduction--my conjecture IN NO WAY ATTEMPTS to
supplants or set aside all else on the topic presented so far, and what may
still follow. So in good faith and awareness, as well as having reflected
upon the responses of fellow Goans, here is my humble offering.

+

Din(dhin')[1a] is day. Dinkar [1b], sun (surya). Dinkara/Dinkar (Surya)
Div, also day in Sanskrit. Div(akara).divakara (Sun who renders the
day...dis dita to. Dis, Konknni; Divas, Marathi)

vas[2] is an Indo-Eurpean (proto IE) root, to shine / (awareness).
Essentially affirming being, awareness.

Dhin'vas, grateful, appreciative, thankful; dhin'vas(i) is the one (upkari)
who is thanking/ conveying gratitude, as in Hanv tuzo upkari; tuje upkar
mantam.

tam[3], is a verb ending.

1+2+3 = Din(dhin')+vas+tam = dhin'vastam


Dinvas is a Regular verb on account of it maintaining the stem (dinvas)
across all tenses.
Conjugation of dhin'vas" below. PLEASE CORRECT if I am in error.

Present Tense, Indicative Mood (essentially, to state) ::: Present Imperfect
hanv (I) dhin'vastam ::: hanv dhin'vastalom (m), hanv dhin'vastalim (f),
hanv dhin'vatalem (n)
tum (thou, you) dhin'vastai ::: tum dhin'vastaloi, tum dhin'vastalii (f),
tum dhin'vastalei (n)
to (he), ti (she), tem(it) dhin'vasta ::: to dhin'vastalo (m),
ti dhin'vastali (f), tem dhin'vastalem (n),

Plural
ami (we) dhin'vastanv ::: ami dhin'vastaleanv (m, f, n)
tumi (you) dhin'vastat ::: tumi dhin'vastaleat (m, f, n)
te (they, m), teo (they, f), tim (they) dhin'vastat ::: te dhin'vastalet
(m), teo dhin'vastaleot (f), tim dhin'vastalint (n)


One more thing: I must add that it would have been immense pleasing if Hindu
Goanetters (even if they be/are cultural Hindus) had taken part in our
musings. Perhaps some other time---in Konknni or even in some other
language.

 venantius j pinto

[Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Domnic Fernandes]

We grew up using the Konkani greeting wishing people in the morning thus:

Dev boro dis dium (May God grant you a good day.)

The reply to the above greeting is: “Jezu kurpa dium [tuzo dis boro 
zavnk.]” (May Jesus grant you grace [to make your day good.])


In the afternoon, evening and at night, we use the following Konkani 
greeting(s):


“Dev boro donpar dium.” (May God grant you a good afternoon).
“Dev bori sanz dium.” (May God grant you a good evening).
“Dev bori rat dium.” (May God grant you a good night).

Unlike in the morning, the responses in the above three cases are as 
follows:


“[Dev] Tukai [boro donpar] dium.” (May God also grant you a good 
afternoon or Wish you the same.)
“[Dev] Tukai [bori sanz] dium.” (May God also grant you a good evening 
or Wish you the same.)
“[Dev] Tukai [bori rat] dium.” (May God also grant you a good night or 
Wish you the same.)


We do not ask for Jesus’ grace again because we already asked for it in 
our response in the morning.


Dev borem korum.

Moi-mogan,

Domnic Fernandes
Anjuna, Goa
Mob: 9420979201


Whenever I've used "Deu borem korun" or Deu  boro dis dium" in the past, 
I've always heard
the response, "tuka-i-dium". Doesn't "kurpa" refer more to "grace"- in 
the religious sort of sense?


Mervyn Maciel

__
Sena, Shah Rukh and the fight over Mumbai Sign up now.

[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[lino dourado]

Chalu vorsachea 'prachit khallar' Goanet-ar Devachem nanv motean gazot asa. Hi 
ek khuxechi gozal. Prithum Rochtolea Bapa-chi tust ani zoy-zoy 
kortoleank, Isvoran odik bholayken samballche.
Lino Dourado
http://aitaracheokaskuleo.blogspot.com/ 

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Sebastian Borges]

Dear friends,
Many thanks for your several responses which only go to prove the point that I 
wanted to make: that Konkani has many words and expressions for expressing 
gratitude without expressly invoking God and that the hackneyed expression can 
sometimes go to ridiculous limits like if we were to say "Dev borem korum, 
Deva!"  Expressions like "din'vastam", "upkar man'tam", abhar man'tam", "borem 
zaum" have been there since before the arrival of the Portuguese.  These are 
found in the 16-17th century literature in which "argam ditam" is also used but 
only for God and saints.  Then, how did Dev come in?  I think it was introduced 
by the Padres.  At first they translated "bom dia", "boa tarde" and "boa noite" 
for which Konkani did not have equivalents in vogue.  God is not an explicit 
part of these Portuguese expressions, but is implied in the sense "(may God 
give you a) Good Day" etc.  So God was explicitly inserted into the Konkani 
equivalents, because the literal
 translation "Boro Dis!" might not have conveyed the exact sense of the 
Portuguese greeting.  That the source is Portuguese can be judged from the fact 
that we do not have the Konkani equivalent of the English "Good afternoon."  
Having done this, they took up the equivalent of "obrigado" or "muito obrigado" 
wherein God is not even implied.  The Konkani equivalent was "(tujem) Borem 
zaum."  Here borem is a noun and hence means "good" in the sense of welfare.  
Therefore, here too, God is implied.  Hence "Dev (tujem) borem korum."  In the 
course of time, this has become "Tuka Dev borem korum" which is not exactly the 
same thing.  It is worse when 'muito obrigado" is translated as "tuka chodd Dev 
borem korum" and "muitissimo obrigado" as "tuka choddant chodd Dev borem 
korum."  Grammatically, the correct forms should be "tuka Dev(an) chodd borem 
korum" and "tuka Dev(an) choddant chodd borem korum" because the adjective 
applies to 'borem' and not to 'Dev.' 
 And now our Konklish Goans have turned "Bore...m zaum" into "Tenkyu aaam!"   
We also often hear from a platform: "Hanv tumkam Dev borem korum mhonnttam" 
which is akin to saying "I say Thank you to you."  

According to Msgr. Dalgado 'dhin'vas' comes from the Sanskrit 'dhonyovad.' (One 
of the meanings of this would be 'I say that I am blessed.')  Among the 
European expressions, I find that the Portuguese 'muito obrigado' comes closest 
to this in meaning.  How does 'dhonyovad' convert to 'dhin'vas'?  There are 
some patterns (laws) in the ethymological evolution of a Konkani word.  Any 
borrowed long word (whether from Sanskrit or Portuguese) automatically shortens 
on the Konkani tongue.  The Sanskrit 'dhonyovad' being masculine would first 
become 'dhonyovadu' in Konkani the syllables 'dho' and 'va' being accented.  
The accented syllables generally survive.  Therefore quadrisyllabic 
"dho-nyo-va-du" gets converted to a trisyllabic "dhon'-va-du."  From here 
'dhon' became 'dhin' and 'vadu' became 'vas'.  Please note that the Sanskrit 
'gnean' and 'grahok' have become 'ginean' and 'girak' respectively in Konkani.

Meaningful discussion from knowledgeable persons would be most elucidating and 
welcome.

Mog asum.
Sebastian borges   




On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 Venantius J Pinto 
wrote:

Finally, philology on Goanet, yet I will sit this one out a bit.

But I like your spirit FN. Tread gently, gotcha could turn into gotchi (not
of the Shakuntale kind though). : ).

venantus


> Gotcha! What say, Prof. Borges? FN
> PS: What is the precise connotation of "dinvastam"? Origins of the word?
>
> On 16 March 2010 21:08, Domnic Fernandes  wrote:
> >
> > Generally, we would say:
> >
> > ?"Dhoniam Deva Tuka dinvastam."
> >
> > Moi-mogan,
> --
> Frederick Noronha * Goa,1556 (alt.publishers)
> P +91-832-2409490 M +91-9822122436
>



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[Goanet] Dev borem korum

[JoeGoaUk]

Dev borem korum  
 
or how to say 'thank you to god'?
 
Saiba, maglolo upkar maka meulo dekun
Hanv tuka argam ditam
Hanv tuka dinvastam
Hanv tuzo upcari
Hanv tuzo upcar attoitam
Hanv tuka Dev borem korum munttam
 
Also,
Hanv tuka vankanntam (to praise)
 
Also, (populr church hymn)
Argam tuka Somia
Argan tuka Dhonia
Argam tuka, Argam Tuka
Antam ani sasnak
 
Tuen mak rochloi tuzo mog korcheak
Tuen maka posloi tiji chakri korcheak
Tuen maka vinchloi sasnak suska pavoncheak
Toi maka favo nhoi, somia maka favo nhoi
 
II
Argan ditam tuka Saibinni
Deva Maye sulalinni
Bhodoveamchi Ranni tum ghe
Ama papiamchim Xeratini
 
III (Alfred Rose - Rita Rose
Anj boddve vazoitai dhorgam
Devak ami diunvia argam
 
If we can say ‘Thank you’ to Jesus (God)
I guess we can also say the same ‘Dev borem korum’ 
e.g
Thank you, thank you Jesus
Thank you, thank you Jesus 
Thank you, thank you Jesus, from my heart, alleluia 


joego...@yahoo.co.uk 

for Goa & NRI related info... 
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/GOAN-NRI/ 

For Goan Video Clips 
http://youtube.com/joeukgoa 

In Goa, Dial  1 0 8 
For Hospital, Police, Fire etc


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Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Mannest Sebastian-bab, ani sogle supraprim Konknni borovpi ani premi,
Veg vegle Konknni borovpeanche supraprim (eloquent) Konknni vachun mon
mirouta. Tunvem vincharlam, "I have a serious problem.  How do I say "Thank
you, God1" in Konkani?  Please help." Hya vishayar dulobh uzvadd ghalunk
hanv bhov khalto---pun ek vinayi prayatna mhojea "khandyar" getam
(khuxalkaen). Tor, hanvem khala Konkanint mandlam toxem zaunk shakta?

II Deva, tujem borem zaum l Tujem borem zaum Deva l Tujem borem zaum O Deva
II

II Deva, tuzo upkar mantam l Tuzo upkar mantam Deva II
II Deva, tujea paripurnain dil'lo upkar mantam l Tumchean paripurnain dil'lo
upkar mantam, O Deva II
++
Ani somoz amim diannishttean (ecstatically) Jesuchi zoizoi korunk aasheta,
tor Bapa Sor Podvedar Devasovem Taka (Jesuk) argam/bhett diunk shakta. Tor
maca dista oxeam mhunnonk zata:
Deva, Dev Bapa borem korun. (God [the son Jesus], May God the Father do well
by Thee) BUT OF COURSE!!
Deva, Sor Podvedar Deva Bapan borem korum (tujea thain). (God [the son
Jesus], May God the Father Almighty do well by Thee)
Sor Podvedar Deva Bapan, Deva tujem borem korum. (May God the Father
Almighty do well by Thee, O Lord [God the Son, Jesus, Son])

*Voirlem chintop ani mandop, tim utram**---ugdas ailim **burgeponan** zoxem
amcam ghara (Bombaim xaran) xinkoilelem. Tya vorvim hem mhojem thoddem
borovp ghoddlem. Monant riglole adle lahan mund disson yeta khala. *
1. Bap, Put ani Spirit Sanctus/Spiritu Paraklit, (Father, Son and the Holy
Spirit/Paraclete)
2. Bap, Put ani Povitr Otmo, (Father, Son and the Holy Spirit/Ghost)
3. Deva Bapa (ani) Putra (ani) Povitr Otmo (God the Father, Son and Holy
Spirit)

Aikonk anvdetam, tumchi hya vishayar sozmonim assa zalear.

venantius j pinto



From: Sebastian Borges 
> To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
> Subject: Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum
> Message-ID: <963430.59788...@web113302.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Dear friends,
> I have a serious problem.  How do I say "Thank you, God1" in Konkani?
>  Please help.
> Mog asum.
> Sebastian Borges
>

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[rcabral]

I have heard people saying "argam tuka Deva". Will that do? I think there are 
different ways of addressing. May think over it.
All the best. 
Richard Cabral
 Sebastian Borges  wrote: 
> Dear friends,
I have a serious problem.  How do I say "Thank you, God1" in Konkani?  Please 
help.
Mog asum.
Sebastian Borges
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010  Frederick Noronha 
wrote:

You mean it's a blank cheque issued on someone else's account :-) FN

On 7 March 2010 20:20, Antonio Menezes

> note that unlike a ''thank you'' the ''Dev borem korun'' has no quid pro quo
> attached to it.

Sebastian Borges



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[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum (MAGNNEM)

[lino dourado]

Deva, 2010 Prachit Khal (Korezm) Tujea Nanvan, Goa-Net-ar Ghazlem. Somestamni 
Borem Asa Tem Dinvchem. Zoxem Hanv Mhojem MAGNNEM Ditam 

 
MAGNNEM
  
Jezu! 
Tujea povitr mondirant 
Magnnem korunk 
Bhitor sortana 
Vatteruch 
Mhozo dusman gavlo 
Tuzo updes 
Dusmanank maf korcho 
Ani hanvem toxem kelem 
Punn... 
Tannem mhaka 
Dukhoila 
Tem mat 
Visronk zaina 
Mhaka bhogos Saiba! 
  
Lino B. Dourado 
(Utodd'dekar) 

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Selma,
 The original phrase, in 895 A.D*. and thereafter, was "Godd gibb thee a 
gode morwene", which was eventually shortened through lip laziness to "gode 
morwene." How do I know this? I was there...
 Regards,
 Victor
*Or it might even have been in 896 A.D. Or 897. My memory is getting weaker as 
I age!

--- On Tue, 3/9/10, Carvalho  wrote:


From: Carvalho 
Subject: [Goanet] Dev borem korum
To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 10:52 AM


Dear Victor,
This is what you wrote:
"In England centuries ago it used to be "God give you a good morning"
-
I correct my earlier assertion that God and Good do not have a common 
ethmology. They may have. But the phrase itself was "gode morwene" and not God 
give you a good morning. You do see how this like Goan and Goanese. :-) I aim 
to please.
 
warm regards,
Selma

 

[Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Carvalho]

Dear Victor,
This is what you wrote:
"In England centuries ago it used to be "God give you a good morning"
-
I correct my earlier assertion that God and Good do not have a common 
ethmology. They may have. But the phrase itself was "gode morwene" and not God 
give you a good morning. You do see how this like Goan and Goanese. :-) I aim 
to please.
 
warm regards,
Selma

 

Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

Dear Selma,
 Thank you for that bit of digging into the etymology of "good", which, as 
far as I can recall, neither I nor anybody else in this discussion claimed was 
derived from "God".
 Still, the Oxford English Dictionary, in its various manifestations, is 
certainly a great resource. It tracked the first use of one particular term to 
1285? We weren't even alive then!
 Regards,
 Victor

--- On Mon, 3/8/10, Carvalho  wrote:


From: Carvalho 
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum
To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 12:41 PM


The ethmology of the word Good is not God as we understand the word. The 
ethomology of morning is morewen.

Good morning is not exactly derived from May God give you a good morning. It is 
an expression of its own accord from Gode morewen, for the olde English word 
"good".

I could be wrong of course.
best,
selma


good (adj.) 
O.E. god (with a long "o") "having the right or desirable quality," from P.Gmc. 
*gothaz (cf. O.N. goðr, Du. goed, Ger. gut, Goth. goþs), originally "fit, 
adequate, belonging together," from PIE base *ghedh- "to unite, be associated, 
suitable" (cf. O.C.S. godu "pleasing time," Rus. godnyi "fit, suitable," O.E. 
gædrian "to gather, to take up together"). Irregular comparatives (better, 
best) reflect a widespread pattern, cf. L. bonus, melior, optimus. First record 
of good day is from c.1205. Goods "property" first recorded c.1280, but 
singular in the same sense was in O.E. The good neighbours is Scot. euphemism 
for "the fairies" (1588). Good-for-nothing is from 1711; good-looking is from 
1780; good-natured first recorded 1577. Good sport is from 1917; good to go is 
attested from 1989.
 
mid-13c., morn, morewen (see morn) + suffix -ing, on pattern of evening. 
Originally the time just before sunrise. Morning after "hangover" is from 1884; 
as a type of contraception, attested from 1867. Morning sickness first recorded 
1879 (O.E. had morgenwlætung). Morning glory is from 1814, in reference to the 
time the flowers open. Morning star "Venus in the east before sunrise" is from 
1530s (O.E. had morgensteorra).

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum

[Sebastian Borges]

Dear friends,
I have a serious problem.  How do I say "Thank you, God1" in Konkani?  Please 
help.
Mog asum.
Sebastian Borges
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010  Frederick Noronha 
wrote:

You mean it's a blank cheque issued on someone else's account :-) FN

On 7 March 2010 20:20, Antonio Menezes

> note that unlike a ''thank you'' the ''Dev borem korun'' has no quid pro quo
> attached to it.

Sebastian Borges



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Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Frederick Noronha]

A serious attempt, as any, to get Sir Knight Kevin Saldanha to
comment. I doubt he'll fall for the bait :-)

Meanwhile, Colombo (the capital of Sri Lanka, among other
possibilities) isn't the same as organisation named after Christopher
Columbus. Alfredo D'Mello of Uruguay should know more; he wrote an
entire book on Colon (aka Columbus).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Columbus

FN

On 9 March 2010 03:45, Gabe Menezes  wrote:

> Mr. Saldanha was a knights of Colombo member; woke up one day and saw the
> light now he only goes to Church, on occasion, to humour his family?
>
> Mr. Kevin Saldanha is more than welcome to give his stance on this!

Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Gabe Menezes]

On 8 March 2010 16:59, Venantius J Pinto  wrote:

> So true Victor. i was brought up to say and respond exactly in the manner
> you shared. Your point about addressing strangers is very significant.
> Aside
> that, I still automatically remember it each morning in my head. In many
> ways I feel that my being has turned this into a lived aesthetic as I walk
> the streets of NY acknowledging strangers/people.
> 
> This may sound funny, but from time-to-time I speak in our Mai Bhas,
> Marathi, etc., even a few words of Japanese with her and although she
> responds very sparingly on occasion---its mostly one way. Of late it has
> been Urdu, which I am working hard at picking up in chunks, beyond
> basics---to help CC out since she needs to be able to converse in it at a
> reasonably level in it.
>
> venantius
>
> RESPONSE: For the sake of good order, this salutation was covered way back
some years ago; Mr. Kevin Saldanha, who was then a subscriber, in an active
sense, on Goanet, had questioned the salutation. His gripe was whether there
was not other proper salutation without bringing 'God' into it.

Quite understandable since Mr. Saldanha, had decided that once we die we are
yesterdays, steak!

Mr. Saldanha was a knights of Colombo member; woke up one day and saw the
light now he only goes to Church, on occasion, to humour his family?

Mr. Kevin Saldanha is more than welcome to give his stance on this!
-- 
DEV BOREM KORUM

Gabe Menezes.

Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Carvalho]

The ethmology of the word Good is not God as we understand the word. The 
ethomology of morning is morewen.

Good morning is not exactly derived from May God give you a good morning. It is 
an expression of its own accord from Gode morewen, for the olde English word 
"good".

I could be wrong of course.
best,
selma


good (adj.) 
O.E. god (with a long "o") "having the right or desirable quality," from P.Gmc. 
*gothaz (cf. O.N. goðr, Du. goed, Ger. gut, Goth. goþs), originally "fit, 
adequate, belonging together," from PIE base *ghedh- "to unite, be associated, 
suitable" (cf. O.C.S. godu "pleasing time," Rus. godnyi "fit, suitable," O.E. 
gædrian "to gather, to take up together"). Irregular comparatives (better, 
best) reflect a widespread pattern, cf. L. bonus, melior, optimus. First record 
of good day is from c.1205. Goods "property" first recorded c.1280, but 
singular in the same sense was in O.E. The good neighbours is Scot. euphemism 
for "the fairies" (1588). Good-for-nothing is from 1711; good-looking is from 
1780; good-natured first recorded 1577. Good sport is from 1917; good to go is 
attested from 1989.
 
mid-13c., morn, morewen (see morn) + suffix -ing, on pattern of evening. 
Originally the time just before sunrise. Morning after "hangover" is from 1884; 
as a type of contraception, attested from 1867. Morning sickness first recorded 
1879 (O.E. had morgenwlætung). Morning glory is from 1814, in reference to the 
time the flowers open. Morning star "Venus in the east before sunrise" is from 
1530s (O.E. had morgensteorra).

Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

So true Victor. i was brought up to say and respond exactly in the manner
you shared. Your point about addressing strangers is very significant. Aside
that, I still automatically remember it each morning in my head. In many
ways I feel that my being has turned this into a lived aesthetic as I walk
the streets of NY acknowledging strangers/people.

This may sound funny, but from time-to-time I speak in our Mai Bhas,
Marathi, etc., even a few words of Japanese with her and although she
responds very sparingly on occasion---its mostly one way. Of late it has
been Urdu, which I am working hard at picking up in chunks, beyond
basics---to help CC out since she needs to be able to converse in it at a
reasonably level in it.

venantius


> From: Victor Rangel-Ribeiro  Subject: Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum
>
> May I also point to two other expressions that we oldsters used to
> routinely exchange, whether as adults or as children,?whenever we passed
> another person in the street, even total strangers:
>  Deo boro dis dium.
>  Deo bori rat dium.
> And the immediate answer naturally was, Tukai dium!
> (del)
>  Regards to all,
>  Victor
>

Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Frederick Noronha]

On 8 March 2010 15:05, Victor Rangel-Ribeiro  wrote:
>  Apparently padri bas was dominant in England as well as in Goa.

More accurately, it would/should have been calledl pastor-bas :-) FN

Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Victor Rangel-Ribeiro]

May I also point to two other expressions that we oldsters used to routinely 
exchange, whether as adults or as children, whenever we passed another person 
in the street, even total strangers:
 Deo boro dis dium.
 Deo bori rat dium.
And the immediate answer naturally was, Tukai dium!
 In England centuries ago it used to be "God give you a good morning" and 
"God give you a good night," telescoped into today's "Good morning" and "Good 
night."
 Apparently padri bas was dominant in England as well as in Goa.
 Regards to all,
 Victor
--- On Sun, 3/7/10, Frederick Noronha  wrote:


From: Frederick Noronha 
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum
To: "Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994!" 
Date: Sunday, March 7, 2010, 1:50 PM


Very interesting! Do the experiences of others bear out what Domnic
suggests? Also, is Padri Bhas more prevalent in Bardez ... or is the
Padri Bhas dialect of Konkani a mix of Bardeshi and Sanskrit
terminology (needed to express theological constructs which are often
absent from the spoken language)?

Just speculating here...  Dr W. R da Silva, ironically himself a
priest and learned sociologist besides being a linguist, was the guy
who introduced me to the concept of the dominant dialects of Padri
Bhas-Bamonn Bhas in Konkani :-) FN

On 7 March 2010 20:07, Domnic Fernandes  wrote:
> Per my observation, the Bardezkar say "Dev borem korum", whereas the 
> Saxttikar say "Bor(em) zaum".
-- 
Frederick Noronha
Columnist :: journalism :: editing :: alt.publishing :: photography :: blogging
P +91-832-2409490 M +91-9822122436  A:784 Saligao 403511 Goa India

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Re: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Frederick Noronha]

Very interesting! Do the experiences of others bear out what Domnic
suggests? Also, is Padri Bhas more prevalent in Bardez ... or is the
Padri Bhas dialect of Konkani a mix of Bardeshi and Sanskrit
terminology (needed to express theological constructs which are often
absent from the spoken language)?

Just speculating here...  Dr W. R da Silva, ironically himself a
priest and learned sociologist besides being a linguist, was the guy
who introduced me to the concept of the dominant dialects of Padri
Bhas-Bamonn Bhas in Konkani :-) FN

On 7 March 2010 20:07, Domnic Fernandes  wrote:
> Per my observation, the Bardezkar say "Dev borem korum", whereas the 
> Saxttikar say "Bor(em) zaum".
-- 
Frederick Noronha
Columnist :: journalism :: editing :: alt.publishing :: photography :: blogging
P +91-832-2409490 M +91-9822122436  A:784 Saligao 403511 Goa India

Please add a 'signature' below your email. Makes it easy when someone
wants to contact you!

[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Domnic Fernandes]

Per my observation, the Bardezkar say "Dev borem korum", whereas the Saxttikar 
say "Bor(em) zaum". 

Moi-mogan,

Domnic Fernandes
Anjuna, Goa
Mob: 9420979201
Dear Sebastian Borges,
 
For that matter, even our NRI Commissioner Bab Eduardo Faleiro will
often end a  conversation with a "Borem zaum" (May you prosper).
 
On the other hand, an editor like Rajan Narayan oft repeats "Dev borem
korum" (his preferred spelling, if not mistaken).
 
Each term may have its own connotations and subtelties... just as
Rajan's "red soil of Goa" might seem logical and representative,
except that the soil can be a sandy yellow, alluvial and loamy and
silvery bauxite, apart from the lateritic and ferric aluminium oxide
red in  parts of the state! FN
 
On 7 March 2010 11:00, Sebastian Borges  wrote:
> every week.  On getting the alms from my mother,
> she never said "Dev borem korum" but always "Bore..m
> zaum, Bab zaum" i.e. "May you prosper, may you beget
> a baby boy."  Perhaps, even at that time, the
> expressions had not percolated to the grassroot level.
  
_
What does Budget 2010 mean for you? Catch all the latest news, updates and 
analysis on MSN Budget Special
http://news.in.msn.com/moneyspecial/budget2010

[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Venantius J Pinto]

Interesting Dominic. As in Allah ki fikar rahen; Allah ki barkat (se).
Based on where it is said--Thank you in Urdu is also Merbani (Meherbani),
Shukriya as also Dhanyavad.

venantius


> From: Domnic Fernandes 
> Subject: [Goanet] Dev Borem Korum
>
> Prior to 1510, Goa was governed by different rulers, including Muslims.
> The Portuguese took over Goa from the Muslims. Islam uses the word
> 'Allah' (God) quite frequently. They, too, invoke God's name while
> thanking - 'Barak Allah-hu fik'. So, it's possible that we inherited
> 'Dev Borem korum' from our previous occupiers, the Muslims.
>
> Moi-mogan,
>
> Domnic Fernandes
> Anjuna, Goa
> Mob: 9420979201
>
>
> http://www.goanet.org/post.php?name=News&list=goanet&info=2010-March/thread&post_id=190654
>
>
>

[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum

[Domnic Fernandes]

Prior to 1510, Goa was governed by different rulers, including Muslims. 
The Portuguese took over Goa from the Muslims. Islam uses the word 
'Allah' (God) quite frequently. They, too, invoke God's name while 
thanking - 'Barak Allah-hu fik'. So, it's possible that we inherited 
'Dev Borem korum' from our previous occupiers, the Muslims.


Moi-mogan,

Domnic Fernandes
Anjuna, Goa
Mob: 9420979201

http://www.goanet.org/post.php?name=News&list=goanet&info=2010-March/thread&post_id=190654

Re: [Goanet] Dev borem korum... to our politicians (Derek Almeida/Gomantak Times)

[Alex Pascoal Silveira]

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What a fine piece of metaphoric writing by Derek !
A fine piece of writing, indeed !!

[Goanet] Dev borem korum... to our politicians (Derek Almeida/Gomantak Times)

[Goanet Reader]

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A BIG DEV BOREM KORUM TO ALL OUR POLITICIANS

FOOTLOOSE / By Derek Almeida derekalmeida at rediffmail.com
Gomantak Times / August 19, 2007

Dear politicians,

At the outset, let me thank all of you (BJP, Congress, UGDP,
MGP, Independents and all other kinds of variants) for
providing us with some real and wholesome entertainment,
especially at a time when Bollywood is struggling to make us
laugh.

Just when the entire state seemed to be heading for a boring
and unexciting five years, you'll put your hands and minds
(?) together to produce one of the most memorable acts on the
political stage. It was truly entertaining and, like every
other political plot, the ending was totally unpredictable,
barring the part where Rane restrained Sudin and Deepak
Dhavlikar from voting in the House. Speakers are prone to
repeat themselves and this is not good for the entertainment
business.

I normally depend on our cartoonist Alexyz to give me my
daily dose of fun and laughter; but, I have to admit your
contribution in this field of endeavour has been immense.

On a personal note, I wish to thank Anil Salgaocar for
showing that he is not just another face. By changing sides
twice in 47 days, he has displayed rare talent and guts to do
the entertaining thing. It is very obvious that while peers
were busy digging up the countryside in search of iron ore
for the Chinese, Anil Salgaocar was busy studying politics.
It is also clear that this man did hi homework well before
stepping on the political stage. That he ended up on the
losing side is not an issue, because in the entertainment
business, all you have to do is regale the audience.

I also want to thank Victoria Fernandes for injecting the
'can do' spirit into the plot. Fasting on a footpath is good
for a day, maximum two. But after that, the audience loses
interest. Let's face it, if you have seen one
fast-unto-death, you have seen them all! Hence, her midnight
dash from the Congress to the BJP was better than a car chase
sequence in a Hollywood flick. If Goan cinema ever needs a
leading lady, Victoria is the one to cast. And, the ending
proved that Victoria is the ultimate tragedy queen. I heard
she is crying all the way to the bank, but that is another
issue.

Also, a thank you to Churchill Alemao for providing the final
twist in the tale. Just when the political drama was
beginning to lose steam, Churchill-bab, you put some life
back into it by boldly taking up the offer made by the
Congress. This was pure magic, and entertainment gurus will
talk about it for a long time to come. You are living proof
that education has nothing to do with entertainment.

This thank you note would not be complete without a mention
of Babush Monserrate, the one-man circus. Monserrate-bab you
have style, flamboyance, a terrific sense of timing and a
never-say-die attitude. Just when every one thought you had
hit a slump, you jumped back on centre stage. Without you, we
might have had a stable government for five years, at the end
of which, Goa would have lost its status as the fun capital
of the capital. So, thank you, Babush for keeping an eye on
entertainment value in politics.

S C Jamir bab, as Governor I can no longer classify you as a
politician. Nonetheless, I thank you for doing your bit to
keep the focus on entertainment. Had you to do the right
thing and dismiss the government, it would have plunged the
state into a lacklustre spell of President's Rule. It would
have given you a chance to rule us, but then, what we need is
25,000 megawatts of entertainment and not some chap in a
white hat prancing around the countryside!

Finally, there is Manohar Parrikar to thank. The past three
weeks of entertainment would not have happened without your
keen eye for back-room manoeuvering. In retrospect, I think
you made the mistake of counting your MLAs before they were
hatched. However, by taking a risk, you have shown us a new
way of chilling out.

Let's face it, all you guys have finally learnt to rock and
roll! With entertainers like you'll, who needs Remo?

And lastly, I wish to thank all the Goan voters for electing
a bunch of talented entertainers. I am indebted to each one
of you.

[Goanet] Dev Borem Korum Re: Vol 2, Issue 591

[rui nuvo]

Hei Gebe Menezes and Borg Costa,

Just for my benefit can you confirm whether it is
'Dev Borem Korum' or 'Deo Borem Korum'.

Every time I see Dev ., it sort of jars my mind perhaps because I
have always heard it as Deo ..

I understand Deo = God but has Dev a different meaning? I have heard
Deva again same as God but in an another syntax.

Just curious.

regards

[Goanet] DEV BOREM KORUM

[sarabond]

Hi all,
Before it becomes late
Let me acknowledge and thanks the Goa-netters and my dear friends who have
sent good wishes, messages congratulating and  notes of encouragement at the
release of Veeam's English album "Songs I Love To Sing".
Its been a month after the release and already over 250 CDs are sold. We are
still to keep them at Panjim, Margao and Vasco outlets. Also like to thanks
those who bought a copy and sent us the feed back.
Thanking  Mr. Francisco Martin (Funkit) who was kind to release the album
keeping aside his busy schedule and unfortunately next day who was sick and
had to be hospitalized. God Bless You Funkit with good health !!

A BIG Dev Borem Korun. And announcing Veeam's next Konkani album
''JOHNNY JOHNNY" which is awaiting to be released on Sunday the 17th Sept.
at the hands of great Show-Master of Konkani Stage - Mr. Prince Jacob.
Till than happy listening

Musically for Bond Promotions,
- Bond Braganza

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