Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
--- On Mon, 10/6/08, Bosco - Goanet Volunteer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: #1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message. I publicly stated that I was asked to send my questions to the Goanet moderators, not knowing that the address [EMAIL PROTECTED] did not refer to Goanet moderators, and not knowing that the identity of Goanet moderators was meant to be kept a secret. On reading the rejection notice again (please see below) I now realize that what Bosco has claimed is not true as well, because all I was told was that administrative requests such as requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] My questions to Goanet with request for input from the rest of the 9000 or so non-moderating Goanetters clearly did not fall under the category of an administrative request. #2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than once that your message was rejected as inappropriate, you failed to correct Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message really said. The above accusation is false. I had no reason to correct Cornel because he was absolutely right in claiming that my message was rejected as inappropriate. I quote below the relevant excerpt from the moderator’s rejection notice: BEGIN QUOTE The moderator gave the following reason for rejecting your request: Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator. Administrative requests (such as requests to unsubscribe, subscribe, change the subscription address, feedback to the admin team, etc.) should be sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] END QUOTE Please note that the word “inappropriate” figures prominently in the above quote. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
On Mon Oct 6 05:01:51 PDT 2008 Santosh Helekar wrote: Let me see if I understand what this answer says: RESPONSE: As much as you may try to frame the exchange here, the fact remains: #1) You publicly stated what was not true about your rejected message. #2) Even though Cornel has publicly stated in Goan cyberspace more than once that your message was rejected as inappropriate, you failed to correct Cornel or publicly accurately state what your rejection message really said. As I said earlier, we only have your messages to Goanet to consider. That is all there is to understand. As simple as that!! If you would like to pursue this discussion further, please take it up with Goanet-Admin. - Bosco Goanet Admin
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Santosh Helekar wrote: Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. --- Santosh This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not refer to the Goanet moderators. RESPONSE: Your statement is FALSE because what you stated in your message [1] ...the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators is FALSE. You were not advised to send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators as much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that! Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said Goanet volunteer/Goanet Admin representative and ask this question: RESPONSE: You are very welcome. You are afterall of superior intelligence. We are proud of you. Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)? RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; Goanet Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members can moderate Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been published (Herman has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are published here infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin and Goanet Moderators are volunteers. I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so mysterious and complicated. RESPONSE: Even the brightest live and learn everyday, dont we?? If you have any further administrative queries, please direct them to Goanet Admin - [EMAIL PROTECTED] and not to the discussion/ mailing list. Thank you. - Bosco Goanet Admin http://www.goanet.org [1] http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html [2] http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-September/081358.html
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
--- On Sun, 10/5/08, Bosco - Goanet Volunteer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RESPONSE: No! Goanet moderators are individuals who moderate Goanet; Goanet Admin manage and run different aspects of Goanet - its members can moderate Goanet too. The names of Goanet moderators have not been published (Herman has explained [2]); the names of Goanet Admin are published here infrequently and on the website. Members of Goanet Admin and Goanet Moderators are volunteers. This response comes as a surprise to me, and I am sure, to many others, including some of us who have been members of Goanet for more than a decade. I am glad I asked the question to which the above was the answer. Let me see if I understand what this answer says: 1. Goanet Admin is not the same as Goanet moderators. 2. There are some moderators whose names we do not know, and Herman, the Chair of the Goanet Admin Team will not disclose who they are. Their names have never been published by anybody. All we know about this mysterious group of people is the following from Herman: We’ve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on different continents. ...Herman 3. Only the names of the Goanet Admin Team have been disclosed. They can choose to also moderate Goanet if they want. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:47:34 -0400 From: Bosco - Goanet Volunteer [EMAIL PROTECTED] You were not advised to send YOUR questions to the Goanet moderators as much as you would like others to believe. You were told to direct your questions to Goanet Admin. Simple as that! Mario responds: Thanks to Bosco for clearing up the difference between Goanet moderators and Goanet Administrators. I'm not sure what all the sturm and drang is about when all we had asked for was for the moderators to identify themselves and explain why they are rejecting a post. I would like everyone to know that Bosco has begun to do so, so it looks like the storm has passed. In two instances recently, in a couple of sentences he explained exactly why my post was being rejected and I was able to then decide whether to edit and resubmit or withdraw. In one case I withdrew, in another I edited and resubmitted. Now lets hope the other moderators will follow his example.
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Hi Cornel, At the outset, let me assure you that I have a lot of respect for you and commend you for your achievements, which you recounted on Goanet. Having said that, sometimes you seem to have a difficult time to get a message. In fact in my review of your many writings, you have a knack of perceiving just the opposite of the sum total of what is written. I still have not gotten over your innumerable posts about widespread casteism among Goan Catholics. You then yourself wrote that casteism affects only 5% of Catholic Goans. You claimed many posters wrote to you with examples and supporting you on this issue. None of them wrote a post on Goanet after you requested them for veracity of your claims. This is just one example of some of your writing themes. Please do not resurrect these issues as I have no intention of continuing to dialog any of them. Yet, I just wanted to point out the problem. The questions now are: Do you know when people are being polite? Do you realize when you abuse someones graciousness? Looking at what you have written below and this whole issue, you clearly have abused the moderator's hospitality. You pick and choose what suits you. Contrary to what you write below, I do not agree with your stand. Bosco, Fred and I sincerely want you (and others) to continue to participate in Goanet. Yet, this is not an invitation to be a 'pain in the you-know-where'. This applies to me and to all the language-snobs, religion-snobs and science-snobs. Our posts should aim to promote commonality and understanding; and not to start and continue controversies. I consider you a friend. And the above is what buddies are meant for. I hope you and others take this in a positive and well-meaning intention in which it is written. This includes my suggestions in prior post that, prolific posters, and me, may want to take a break and seek other pastimes. But may be this supurlo Goenkar does not know much! Mog Assundi Regards, GL CORNEL DACOSTA Hi Gilbert, Thank you Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not. I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves. And at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so.
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Bosco - Goanet Volunteer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to direct his questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . This is quite a mystery! The above is a response to my following statement: Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. --- Santosh This statement of mine can only be false if Goanet-Admin does not refer to the Goanet moderators. But please note that the above response from Bosco - Goanet Volunteer [EMAIL PROTECTED] was signed by Bosco, Goanet Admin Therefore, I have no choice but to insult the intelligence of the said Goanet volunteer/Goanet Admin representative and ask this question: Is Goanet Admin not the same as Goanet moderators? If so, what are the names of these two distinct sets of individual(s)? I never knew this thankless job of moderation could be so mysterious and complicated. Cheers, Santosh
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Hi Gilbert Thank you for indicating that brief reasons for post rejections by Goanet moderators would be helpful when they are deemed inappropriate. That is indeed all critics of Goanet moderation have been asking for since Jan/Feb 2008. I am glad you have noted this point and responded to it even if through satire! Hopefully, at long last, the moderators will take note of your 'wisdom' below! Alternatively, they could have a rule saying that no reasons will be provided--then at least, posters would know where they stand and choose whether to contribute to Goanet or not. I for one was invited to join Goanet as a contributor and subsequently told more than once that I had much to offer by none other than Bosco and Frederick themselves. Perhaps Boso in particular can now expound on his current vacuous view that hell hath no fury like a poster scorned. I emphasise that, I didn't barge into Goanet and at one point when I indicated withdrawal from Goanet over a fiasco from the Gulf, both Bosco and Frederick 'begged' me not to do so as it would not be in Goanet's interests to do so. Perhaps hell hath no fury like a moderator scorned and exposed so easily! Cornel --- On Sat, 4/10/08, Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Gilbert Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations that the moderators can automatically added to the inappropriate post confusing substituting chutzpah with learning You have not read or understood the post you are responding to more Xapottam than knowledge same old ... same old More wind than substance The brow-beating in your post is a poor substitute for reasoning
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Hi Mervyn, Goanet moderators advise posters who aim to be amusing to use a smiley :=)). I do not see that in your alleged non-provocative posts that you label as amusing +/- having crossed the line. As far as Goan posts without the :=)) being amusing, I assumed that the author of those post was a 'Goan on steroids'.:=)) If one retorts with similar words / explanation, then he / she needs a screw-driver to adjust their 'humor button'. This advice is also directed to some posters who have a compulsory need to respond to posts which they imagine is directed to them. The good news is their reply suggest they took the message personally. I like your idea of 'special treatment' to the serial offenders. Can you imagine the poor moderators have to repeatedly read their posts? I can only call that pirachit / penance. No wonder the moderators get a 'thought block' and cannot respond with a one-liner. Likely the moderators go for the feni or scotch after reading those posts. Glad none of the 'sensitive' posters, on receiving the many rejections of inappropriate posts, have not resorted to something more drastic; like - taking a bucket of cold water and dipping their head three times and taking it out twice.:=)). Looking at the support the disgruntled posters received, it appears they are not getting much credibility. Yet, they have only themselves to blame. For a time, they felt they were making cumulative headway. But their difficult-to-prove stories was their undoing, in addition to their suggestion that they were 'God's gift to Goanet' - which they may be.:=)) Regards, GL - Mervyn Lobo I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn. I think that life is to short to go around antagonizing people. I certainly do not want to be a provoker. May be in trying to amuse, I have crossed the line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens. There are serial / repeat offenders here. All you have to do is tell them to clean up their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to consume most of the moderators time. -- Bosco wrote: Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and provoke fellow Goanetters?
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
If the following fact is true - regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects on Goanet, I would suggest the moderators should find more dramatic / drastic means to deal with the authors of these innumerable inappropriate posts. This would be better than the moderators wasting their valuable time rejecting posts with or without an explanation. If there are hundreds of unexplained post rejects, likely the moderators have automated their response with a press of a button. And who can blame them for that? Of course, the hundreds of unexplained post rejects, may be just another exaggeration that we often see on Goanet, when fiction replaces fact. To Bosco, given your post below, our sympathies are with you and other moderators. You have shown the ability to remain polite in the most hostile exchanges. I want the moderators to remember for every poster who resents your characterization of their post as inappropriate, there are many posters who thank you from saving them from self-embarrassment. And there are a whole group of Goanetters who thank you for sparing us from these inappropriate posts. The fact that Goanet has survived successfully for so long, is in itself a credit to the moderators. Many Goan chat sites have seen their demise or are on a respirator with no activity. To be helpful, here are a selection of explanations that the moderators can automatically added to the inappropriate post confusing substituting chutzpah with learning You have not read or understood the post you are responding to more Xapottam than knowledge same old ... same old More wind than substance The brow-beating in your post is a poor substitute for reasoning And there is the whole selection of choice phraseology that our English professor from Goa, Augusto Pinto, has kindly provided, starting with obnubliating.:=)) Regards, GL --- CORNEL DACOSTA I was not attacking the person but the systemic mess that Goanet is in regarding hundreds of unexplained post rejects. - Bosco - Goanet Volunteer To paraphrase an infamous clich, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose message was rejected for posting on Goanet. There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a couple 'experts' in this field. The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet Rules.
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Bosco wrote: Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and provoke fellow Goanetters?? Bosco, I am on Goanet for only one reason: To learn. I think that life is to short to go around antagonizing people. I certainly do not want to be a provoker. Maybe in trying to amuse, I have crossed the line. However, I think people would inform me when that happens. Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing to do is blame the moderators; don't fall for that. Be a part of the solution of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the community at large. I always reply in private to an exceptional post. The problem is that when I tell a poster that his language is unacceptable, the reply I get is in worse language. Prime example is our photographer friend. And may I add that I was not the only person to experience foul language from him. Several other Goanetter's have posted what they have experienced when they told him privately what they felt about his language. There are serial/repeat offenders here. All you have to do is tell them to clean up their act or the moderators will do so. It is a pity that three or four posters have to consume most of the moderators time. Mervyn3.0 __ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now at http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
For reasons unknown (???), this poster has potrayed my text as his own in this thread: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081418.html --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Santosh Helekar chimbelcho at gmail.com wrote: Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was provided an explanation in the rejection note This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation. Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false. RESPONSE: TRUE!! There are no implications just your messages to Goanet to go by. Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions, I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by emailing the same questions back to him. RESPONSE: FALSE!! The moderator did the right thing and asked the poster to direct his questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . All other gratuituous comments above are ignored. Goanet Admin is happy to respond as best we can to any queries raised by Goanetters. The 3-4 gentlemen who have persistently tried to tie us up with endless emails (that has included abuse) will NOT get any response or explanations. I will re-state myself - Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 gentlemen i refer to. - Bosco Goanet Admin http://www.goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Mervyn, I dont know what you mean when you say 'real time'. 1. Nobody, repeat nobody, on Goanet is on unmoderated post. 2. If a moderator is online when someone posts, and is moderating at that time, chances are that an uncomplicated post will go through almost instantaneously Considering everything [1] else you have said is true for a blind moment, I have one question, one piece of information and one request of you. Please oblige. Question: Are you implying that you do not write to Goanet to antagonize and provoke fellow Goanetters?? Information: If you were antagonized by a 'poisonous post', it does not necessarily mean you reply in an even more 'poisonous' response albeit I'm not certain how we would measure 'poisonous'. The Rules clearly state you can bring your grievance to the attention of Goanet Admin or please see Request. Request: When you see a poster use foul language or is often writing provoking posts, please respond to the person publicly and tell him politely what you think of his post. As I said in my first message, the easiest thing to do is blame the moderators; dont fall for that. Be a part of the solution of dealing with such posters who are here not in the interests of the community at large. - Three days in October and we have over 170 messages in the archives - We receive approx 500 messages each day including SPAM - Moderators have to read all messages before acting on them It takes a fair amount of time for the 7 people who help moderate Goanet at different times during the day/week as and when time permits. There is plenty of work to be done. I am getting off this carousel as I think we have afforded adequate time to this issue and we can move on. We always appreciate feedback from Goanetters. For those that want to continue discussing this issue with Goanet Admin or want to provide any feedback, please write to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you again, Mervyn. - Bosco Goanet Admin http://www.goanet.org Ref [1] http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2008-October/081424.html
[Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Dear Goanetters, There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the specific issues that have been raised. First off, Id like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are published here on the mailing list from time to time. Goanets Rules have evolved over many years to take into account the proper etiquette in participating in public forums and the needs of our members. Wed like to see Goanets discussions be of high quality. Id like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job and deserve full recognition for their services. They are volunteers who spend many hours of their valuable time offering their services to the community. The majority of them have been doing this for years and their efforts are deeply appreciated. Weve built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. Our team is comprised of individuals of different ages, genders and on different continents. And, like I said before, many of them have a wealth of experience in moderating Goanet. The issues: We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore. Given the limited number of volunteers and our work load we cannot possibly point out the same violations time after time. Many of you have been informed of this. If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team. Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to remain anonymous for this very reason. This unsavory culture of singling out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and we will not allow it. Such matters will be dealt with internally. So dont be surprised if your messages are rejected on this account. If you have a problem with moderation contact the admin team or myself and well sort things out. Our decisions will be final on the matter. I know that I havent addressed every issue thats come up in this thread but well address the issues internally. We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means contact us if you have problems. Well do our best to sort out the issues. We cant always please everyone, but well try our best. Thank you. Yours sincerely, -- Herman HERMAN CARNEIRO Chair Goanet Admin Team Goanet-admin at goanet.org www.goanet.org
[Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Herman Carneiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] We endeavor to provide an explanation for every message we reject and we save a copy of the rejected post for a period of time. Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore. Mario responds: I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff, Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and meaningless adjective, Inappropriate. Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster like that? Herman wrote: If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team. Mario responds: If there were instructions or explanations in the rejection notice, we would be able to do so, but there are none, with rare exceptions. That is precisely why some of us have been asking for explanations. Besides, in all my years on Goanet, no one I have written to at Goanet Administration or [EMAIL PROTECTED] has ever replied to my questions.
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
From: Herman Carneiro Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore. Mario responds: I'm not sure what you are talking about or who is telling you this stuff, Herman, but your assertion above is simply false. Besides, even if your assertion was true, which it is not, that is no excuse for replacing an explanation and replacing it with the demeaning, disrespectful and meaningless adjective, Inappropriate. Who the hell does such a moderator think he or she is to treat a poster like that? RESPONSE: MarioNot hell but heavenlets just sing Alleluia!!! I have the perfect solution you desire. I will personally ensure you get the exact reason why your message(s) are being rejected. All you have to do is donate US$50 to Goanet each month. This will buy you explanations to a maximum of 10 rejected messages each month. The money has to be paid on the 1st of each month failing which all you will get is Inappropriate. Here is the link to make a donation to Goanet: https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flowSESSION=_QgUyKYylIQnPSWhTo6D0RHp6_rrgnPzNs_Bq77ywdA0O9MMJlAqYEXJ5aedispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f38432c9462fe731381a7a80e09148cd4d65d984db31b77c2 or Visit www.goanet.org and click on the orange Make a Donation button in the right pane. Yes Mario, I am back in the house and your InBox is going to be busier than its been in the past 6 months. Only YOU can help yourself. Deal or No Deal?? - Bosco Goanet Admin http://www.goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
--- On Wed, 10/1/08, Santosh Helekar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation. Any implication above that I twisted the truth is false. I pointed out that the fact that nobody signed the rejection message, and I gave my hunch as to who the anonymous moderator might be, based on past experience. Regarding what the rejection message said, it asked me to send my questions to the Goanet moderators. Since it was one of the moderators himself who was telling me this, without actually answering my questions, I did not want to insult his intelligence and mine any further by emailing the same questions back to him. My Goanet post had also asked for input from the 9000 or so non-moderating members of Goanet, input that none of the moderators could possibly provide. BTW, my questions were derived from concerns raised by other Goanetters. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Dear Herman, Perhaps, your post will bring down the curtain on this discussion ... and put many a active poster on call. I do not believe that anyone who states a fact should be said to be casting aspersions. there may be a disagreement in the perspective as in the classic example of a half bottle of Scotch: if it is one's own it is already half empty, if it is your friend's bottle it is still half full. The one who insists that the bottle is still half full is not casting aspersions, he is just stating a fact ...from his perspective. Ditto for the good job that the Goanet Admin is doing. Do you want to deny the pimples and the warts on the pretty face of the Admin? I am sure you don't. You wrote: Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore. By that yardstick, a habitual drinker's request for assistance must be rejected ... even if all he is asking for is a glass of water! Is that it? Comrades are likely to be up in arms as the Oligarchy of the Goanet Admin team has been clearly re-stated by you. Our decisions will be final on the matter. Those living as second class citizens in foreign lands and in school boardings in Goa may find nothing amiss with that. ;-) Mog asundi. Miguel PS On the original thread, Dom writes about crabs. On 29 Sept. Nitin Kunkolienkar and others made an allusion to that because Goans are protesting against mega projects and SEZs. Jason Keith Fernandes has a beautiful take on the basket of crabs in the GT today. I will post it later in the day. Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:00:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Herman Carneiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Goanetters, There have been emails from a handful of people seeking to cast aspersions on Goanet moderation. As chair of Goanet I would like to address the specific issues that have been raised. First off, I?d like to remind you that Goanet's Rules are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org We'd like to see Goanet's discussions be of high quality. I'd like to remind you, too, that Goanet's moderators do a thankless job and deserve full recognition for their services. We've built our team of moderators to be as impartial as possible. The issues: Those of you who state that your messages are being rejected without an explanation are habitual violators of Goanet's Rules and the moderators have afforded you more than you fair share of explanations, which you have chosen to ignore. If a message is rejected, please follow the instructions in the rejection message and repost your message. Alternatively, if you have any concerns please bring them to the attention of the Goanet Admin team. This unsavory culture of singling out moderators and attacking them on the public forum is unacceptable and we will not allow it. Our decisions will be final on the matter. I know that I haven?t addressed every issue that?s come up in this thread but we?ll address the issues internally. We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means contact us if you have problems. We?ll do our best to sort out the issues. We can?t always please everyone, but we?ll try our best. Thank you. Yours sincerely, -- Herman HERMAN CARNEIRO Chair Goanet Admin Team Goanet-admin at goanet.org www.goanet.org From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/citygroups/
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Bosco - Goanet Volunteer wrote: In essence, there should be no need to moderate Goanet. Goanet's Rules are clear and concise. They are published on Goanet's website at www.goanet.org and are regularly published here. They have been tweaked to their current status over years of experience. -snip- The question wafting through the air: Are the handful of disgruntled posters willing to post as per the rules or not?? Bosco, No one is asking for the rules to be eased. What is needed is the exact opposite. The moderators have to make sure that the rules are consistently applied. They just cannot, for example, allow the worst known words in the Konkani language to be posted here. They certainly cannot keep quiet when members complain about the foul words used. Keeping quiet has never resolved any issue. Another issue is that some posters are only here to antagonize people. These personalities are well known to ALL the moderators. I just cannot understand why such people are allowed to keep posting their venom year in and year out. Every post of mine that was rejected, was my retort to these poisonous posts. Almost everyone else complaining about rejected posts is doing so because he has experienced this problem. A third issue is that, if there are rules here, surely they have to be applied to all? It is quite obvious that some posters (and may I add that these are not moderators) have their posts appearing on Goanet in real time. Once again, take a look at the number of complaints that are now being sent in. JoeGoaUK went as far as to stop posting for a week. The result for his act of protest? Nothing! Mervyn3.0 __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
Herman Carneiro wrote: Conducting witch-hunts to identify moderators who reject posts and lambasting them publicly is unfair and uncalled for. While moderators are encouraged to add their names to rejection notices, it is not a requirement, and it is not surprising that some of our moderators wish to remain anonymous for this very reason. Herman, If we are assured that it requires more than one moderator to reject a post (or a reply to a post), I have no problems accepting the rejected posts with only a Rejected by moderator number one and moderator number five, for example. There is no need for the moderator to sign his/her name on the rejected message. A one line reason for the rejections is essential. The concern here was that a single moderator could reject a post at his own discretion and without the other moderators knowing. We encourage you to send across constructive criticism and by all means contact us if you have problems. We’ll do our best to sort out the issues. We can’t always please everyone, but we’ll try our best. Yes, sometimes all it takes is transparency to iron out problems. Mervyn3.0 __ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca
Re: [Goanet] Goanet Moderation
To paraphrase an infamous cliché, Hell hath no fury like a Goan whose message was rejected for posting on Goanet. There has been much bafflegab on this issue over the past few days by a couple 'experts' in this field. Since Mervyn asked two 'simple' questions, I will acquiesce to his request and provide some examples. ALMOST (emphasis) every message rejected for posting on Goanet is afforded an explanation and in many cases seen by more than one moderator, sometimes three or more moderators. It is our experience that most of the rejected posts are re-posted after the posters make amends based on the explanations provided in the rejection notice. The remaining resort to private and public lambasting and abuse of the moderator, me or Goanet Admin members in general. The exceptions are FEW (emphasis). These are habitual violators of Goanet Rules. For eg. Mario Goveia. I have told him I will never give him an explanation after hundreds of his messages have been rejected over the past 4 years (since he joined Goanet) and indulging him in scores of private explanations. Has he improved his posting skills? I think he has in the past few months but there is no guarantee that he will not go down that road again. Posters who have a propensity to send in flame-baits, abuse, name-calling, often indulge in off-post topics, aggressively top/bottom-post, etc. repeatedly will not be provided with an explanation after several explanations have been given. There are 3-4 individuals who are consistent with this behaviour. These guys cannot debate issues without attacking, demeaning or abusing a fellow poster and will not follow the other simple rules that have been laid out. These are the guys who are crowing at this time. Cornel's initial message on this thread exhibits elitism and is compounded with ignorance. He cannot come to accept that some of his message(s) do not conform to Goanet Rules. On another front, he periodically addresses me on Goanet. He has been informed several times and fails to understand that if he wants my attention to any administrative issues he has to address it to goanet-admin at goanet.org or bosco at goanet.org Cornel would like nothing but to belittle and abuse Fr Ivo, Gilbert Lawrence, Eric Pinto, Mario Goveia, etc.in language that he thinks is appropriate but which violates Goanet Rules and since he is unable to do so, is now suffering from a bout of bafflegab!!! The only reason that Miguel has resorted to flatter me over the past few days is because I held his feet to the fire over the preceding few days in an off-list discussion (that he alluded to), telling him not to include entire original posts in his responses to Goanet. Miguel being Miguel will not accept that his posts are violating any rules as he posts on several mailing lists where such rules do not exist and he has free rein to do as he pleases. He is also angry with some moderator(s) (perhaps me) who did not allow him to respond to Rajan Parrikar 'in kind' earlier this summer. He believes Rajan Parrikar slighted him publicly and he (Miguel) was denied an opportunity to return the favour. Santosh Helekar had a message rejected recently (as he disclosed) and he has concluded who the moderator was. However he fails to mention that he was provided an explanation in the rejection note but did not follow through on the suggestions provided therein. He appears more concerned with who rejected his message rather than why his message was rejected. Santosh Helekar is not one of the 3-4 individuals I referred to above. This is just an illustration of how some messages to Goanet are being used to twist the truth against Goanet's moderators/moderation. In a running exchange with a Goanetter (who shall remain nameless for now, but is certainly reading this) last year, Mervyn Lobo and Gabe Menezes have had several of their messages rejected last year alongwith some from the nameless poster for consistently violating Goanet Rules. Again reasons were given several times after which the messages were just rejected without explanation. I never heard (directly or indirectly) of Gabe or Mervyn conduct a campaign to vilify any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. Edward who posts regularly has had many of his posts rejected; I don't see him getting choleric at any Goanet moderator or Goanet Admin. If there is any other disgruntled poster out there, please step out from the shadows. I will give you a reason why your posts are or were rejected if you haven't got one already. And while you make the effort to identify yourself, please tell us how many times you have knowingly tried to skirt the Rules especially to verbally assault a fellow Goanetter? There is a balance that moderators have to strike between free-speech and abuse. As is sometimes the case with the same few individuals they cannot bring it upon themselves to accept that their messages can
[Goanet] Goanet moderation
Folks, I have 800 unopened emails in my inbox. I have not been able to follow this debate closely. What I do want to point out is that moderation is a thankless job. Having said this, some of the moderators here have spent YEARS of effort trying to make Goanet work. And they have mostly succeeded. The biggest complaint here is that posts are rejected without any reason. The second complain is that no one signs off on the rejection slip. These two complaints can be easily corrected. All the moderators need to do is to give posters the following courtesy: 1) At least two moderators should approve any rejected post. 2) They should included a one line explanation as to why the email was rejected. This are not hard tasks. If any moderator has insight as to why this is difficult, I would like to hear their view points. Like I said before, moderation is a thankless job. Perhaps there are issues here that the rest of the posters are not aware off. A little input from the moderators now would help in a big way. Mervyn3.0 __ Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/