Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers(Eugene Correia) - final
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Eugene Correia wrote on GoaNet 1:Jose's posing more questions makes this issue go longer. As another netter suggested, it's time to bury this issue. 2: If Jose is asking about the Dadra incident that provoke Indian invasion into Goa, it is not definitely known if it was true or not. jc's final response on this matter : re 1: The above might fall into Goveian logic i.e. let's bury this issue. Perhaps, it is a good idea, Perhaps not. Perhaps, our forebears should have accepted that the earth was flat or that the sun rotated round the earth. Perhaps, we should never ask questions about what and why, or we should just accept 'talking points'. re 2: I did not ask any such thing. My point relates to my measured distrust of politicians. My point relates to the point you had made on Feb 21 i.e. "Goa ruined Nehru's reputation as an advocate of non-violence" Would you know what statement Nehru issued immediately post Dadra ? Is that statement questionable? If that is so, How could "Goa ruin Nehru's reputation as an advocate of non-violence" when Dadra preceded Goa? In closing, I'd say this: Let's not expect politicians to be honest, peace loving, democracy fostering, caring individuals. When in power, they never were, are nor will ever be. Power changes the equation. Nehru may have publicly professed non-violence' but he could not justifiably be called an advocate of non-violence. Mahatma Gandhi was. We all should be peace loving and non violent individuals. Violence never brings happiness. It always brings misery - however much we justify it today in Goveian terms. It is better to accept our politicians as they are i.e. Humans, and not put them on pedestals. Politicians should be judged for what they were elected to do. Did they do a good job towards helping the people be happier, safer and more prosperous? That would be the question to ask. As far as India is concerned, give me a Rajiv Gandhi, Narsimha Rao, Atal behari Vajpayee and Manmohan Singh ...any daybetter still Sonia! but please do not make them into demi-gods..and kiss their feet when they are in power. jc -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/attachments/20070226/dd9fde72/attachment.htm
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jose's posing more questions makes this issue go longer. As another netter suggested, it's time to bury this issue. Jose should ask Lino Leitao where and from who he heard the words that he has mentioned on Jose's website (I haven't read it). If Jose is asking about the Dadra incident that provoke Indian invasion into Goa, it is not definitely known if it was true or not. There is also a deep-seated feeling among pro-Portuguese Goans that this incident was cooked by Goan nationalists who wanted one more cause to convince Nehru that military action is the only option. Dr. PP Shirodkar has written a lot on Goa's freedom struggle. So are few books by Goan freedom fighters. The Dadra incident is now part of Goa's freedom history and unless anything contrary to what is stated comes up, one must live with it. Goa-based netters would probably know how many students are currently doing research into Goa's freedom history. The last book I saw on the liberation was Farar Far. I have just glanced through it and found much of what is there has been told before unless someone on this forum let me know otherwise. Eugene Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 25/02/07, Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mario responds: > The concept of global giants pillaging a country is a > myth. Global giants like Enron and several others do > not even exist any more. Other global giants like > Ford and GM and Daimler-Chrysler are struggling to > survive. > Regards, > Mario RESPONSE: What a load of crock ! One has to just check the narrow Dow Jones Index, to find U.S. Global companies and there are many more. Coca Cola, Pepsi, Citi Group, J.P. Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Procter and Gamble, the Big Mac and Burger King, as well as finger lickin good ( all of which are Goveia's staple diet ) are found almost all over the World. Boeing Planes carry vast amounts of people every day. G.E. and Pratt and Whitney ( United Technologies ) provide the Jet engines. When men like Goveia want a lift, they look to Pfizer inc ! All of our Telfon coated pots and pans are the product of Du Pont. We were informed that Goveia would only post to counter ''Left Wing'' ideology ! The truth of the matter is, Goveia can't exist without Goanet :-)). To crown it all, we now read in the Newspapers, that both the U.S. and U.K. are putting pressure on Iraq...to surrender their oil fields to the Multi National oil Companiesmost of whose shareholders are Americans. We were informed that the invasion of Iraq was not about oil; what a load of rubbish ! -- DEV BOREM KORUM. Gabe Menezes. London, England
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers(Eugene Correia) 2
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 25/02/07, Eugene Correia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 1: Heard that Nehru had said the words. I heard from many Goan fighters in Mumbai, including my relatives, .. 2: It is the "remark" which Nehru is supposed to have made, but not in the way it has been worded. 3: There is no foolproof that Nehru said the words attributed to him. jc's response: Thank You Eugene Correia. If one fast-forwards to present times, we have all kinds of racist (et al) statements made by people in position and denied, only to be 'caught on tape'. The 1950s afford us no such luxury. We have to hear what we are being told about those times, and decipher (if we wish) on the balance of probabilities. Impressions that we as individuals develop largely depend upon our own experiences and upon what we read and hear. What was (from your understanding) Nehru's prior experience and information about Goa and Goans? What could it have been? What role did Goans play in the social scene in British India and in the UK (in Nehru's time). You lived in Bombay (like I lived in Poona). What was the sum total of what nonGoans thought of Goans - when you lived there? Did they believe that Goans were mainly Hindu and had a good number of intellectuals within their fold? Is that the impression you got when you spoke to your nonGoan colleagues and co-workers?. What exactly might have been the basis/incentive for Nehru to think of Goans as other than "cooks and butlers" ? I ask: If there was a choice between believing your family members (who were Freedom Fighters) and a politician, Who would you, on the balance of probabilities, believe? Did Nehru tell the truth about Dadra & Nagar Haveli? Was he totally honest about Subhas Chandra Bose? I am not sure. I am just asking. And Yes, I have learnt to understand that anything is possible when it comes to politicians. They ALL (as far as I can decipher) profess to be philantrophists and humanitarians. What they practice is altogether different. Mahatma Gandhi fortunately - was not a politician sincerely jc BTW: Have you any knowledge of any declaration (drawn up by Cardinal Gracias) meant to be signed by Bombay Goans ...which apparently was eventually scrapped as it allegedly got a very cold reception from the Goans? One of these days, I will try read Leo Lawrence's book on Nehru and Goa, and see if there is any reference to Cardinal Gracias. Have you read that book, What have you heard about Leo's credibility, Is he trustworthy? Once again, I ask because I do not know.
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers(Eugene Correia)
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Excuse me for the errors. The "off-the-maturity" was supposed to be "off-the-cuff" remark. The word "maturity" possibly cropped in as I wanted to write that Nehru felt Goans (by which I meant those who lead the Goans in the freedom movement) lacked political "maturity" to decide what they wanted. Thanks for bringing it up, as I wanted to clarify it because delayed because of lack of time. Heard what? Heard that Nehur had said the words. I heard from many Goan fighters in Mumbai, including my relatives, that Nehru was ill-at-ease with some diehard freedom fighters who wanted Nehru to send in the army much before it actually happened. IT is the "remark" which Nehru is supposed to have made, but not in the way it has been worded. Having read Prof. Aloysius Soares's autobiography I don't remember having coming across Nehru's remarks. Unfortunately, I never had a chance to ask the good professor about it. There is no foolproof that Nehru said the words attributed to him. So not much importance was given to the remark, even it was ever made. Hence, it was considered a rumour and used by those who were against the nationalist movement to show how Nehru was disrespectful of Goans. There were few few Goans in the freedom movement who had access to Nehru. Eugene --- Jose Colaco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Eugene Correia noted the following on GoaNet: > > 1: Nehru,...is "supposed" to have felt frustrated > at the dilly-dallying of > Goan freedom fighters and also because of their > in-fighting, as you know > there were many groups espousing the cause of Goa's > freedom. > > 2: Nehru wanted an universal agreement on the course > of action from the > groups, which were divided on how Goa should be > freed. > > 3: He is said to have made THIS öff-the-maturity > when it came to dealing > with Goa's freedom. > > 4: Nehru himself was caught between his philosophy > of non-alingment and no > use of force and the pressure to liberate Goa > because of the forthcoming > elections. Congress was to benefit largely from such > an action, which would > divert the attention of the nation from other > domestic crisis. > > 5: Lino Leitao, as I know, was involved in the > freedom movement and possibly > heard over the grapevine. > > 6: IT was not a putdown of Goans as Nehru had high > respects for some Goans > such as Frank Moraes, his biographer and a renowned > journalist, and Cardinal > Gracias, to mention but two. > > > jc's comment > > Interesting points from Eugene Correia: > > re1: speaks for itself. > > re2: NEHRU wanted? ! (just like someone saying that > amche modern day > "Jorge" or "Antonio" wanted ) > > re3: I don't know what "off-the-maturity" means > but what is Eugene > referring to when he writes "THIS" ? > > re4: speaks for itself > > re5: Heard WHAT, Eugene? > > re6: What does "IT" stand for, Eugene? BTW: I wonder > whether Eugene has seen > and read the "Bulletin" issued in February 1955 > under the patronage of > Cardinal Gracias. > > > It ''THIS', WHAT' and 'IT' (in re3, re5 & re6 above > respectively) stand for > the 'Goans are cooks and butlers' comment, it looks > pretty much that Roland > needs to pack his bags to Carmo's place for a > month's labour as K4's 'Cuzner > ani Botler' > > Unless Roland (his recent email from an anonymous > friend notwithstanding) is > ducking his part of the bargain, again? > > brilliant!! > > jc > It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- allwyntc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > However, I think the idea of socialism seemed to > many, at that time, to be an attractive alternative > to capitalism... > > I'm not convinced India would have done much better > with a different economic model. What, let the > global corporate giants come and continue the > pillage of the country? I think India needed to be > able to play in the international arena with a strong > hand, and while economically it was weak, it was > self-sufficient in several areas before we came out > to play. > Mario responds: > Allwyn, Socialism is a siren song that has failed miserably wherever it has been tried, created massive economic waste and poverty and disruptions in resource allocation and has therefore been rejected by almost all its major proponents like India, Russia and China. > There is a good reason for this. Simply put, a group of ruling elites and the small army of bureaucratic controls that results from socialism, cannot manage an entire economy efficiently and decide what is good for everyone else. > The massive brain drain from all socialist countries reflects the failure of socialism, and all the migrations are towards countries that are towards the capitalistic end of the economic spectrum, the US being the large economy closest to capitalism which is the strongest magnet for immigrants. > The US is an excellent example of a country that started from scratch with mostly immigrants fleeing religious discrimination. It has never been reluctant to allow people and economic assets from any and everwhere to be freely used within its economy, with a minimum of governmental controls, imposed mainly for political reasons. This allows individuals, all following what they see as their best interests, to decide what they want and need, and the businesses respond to satisfy those wants and needs. Its a win-win situation for everyone, and competition keeps everyone on their toes. We are beginning to see the effects in India, ever since Manmohan Singh was able to influence economic affairs, which was euphemistically called economic "liberalization", but not prior to that. > The concept of global giants pillaging a country is a myth. Global giants like Enron and several others do not even exist any more. Other global giants like Ford and GM and Daimler-Chrysler are struggling to survive. In the US over 80% of the jobs are created by small and medium sized bussinesses, not the corporate giants. Yet, the US is the most vibrant and consistent economy among all the westernized industrial countries, with low inflation, low taxes, low interest rates and low unemployment rates, and high private ownership of cars and homes and amenities. Low income Americans enjoy a standard of living better than most middle income Europeans. > Regarding India playing a strong hand in the international arena, how does being economically weak achieve this? It has far more influence now than the wasted Nehru years. Back then it was all talk and pious posturing, no action. This continues today, especially among the elite who write for the major Indian newspapers and posture at social gatherings. What has India done for any oppressed country, from Rwanda to Darfur to Palestine to Iraq, India is nowhere to be found. > In fact, I blame India and other countries like it for the mess in Iraq. They sat on the sidelines and watched impotently from 1991 on, when Saddam was violating 17 UN Security Council resolutions to disclose an accounting of his WMDs, and massacring hundreds of thousands of his own citizens in order to preserve his power. Even when Saddam was given an ultimatum in UN 1441, and the coalition was massed on its borders, India and these countries were unable to convince him to tell the UN inspectors a) whether he had destroyed his WMDs and b) proof that he had done so. Now, they implausibly expect us to believe that Saddam did not have any WMDs but was willing to give up his cushy dictatorship just because he did not want to tell the UN this and provide proof - after previously raping, torturing and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis in order to stay in power. > What kind of a cynical and callous democracy is India and the others that they sit and watch and do not use their supposed influence to help another country become free and democratic, after the US spilled it own blood to give the Iraqis an opportunity they never had before? The UN confirmed that 12 million Iraqis voted in each of three
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers - Why are they not very entrepreneurial ?
http://www.GOANET.org This month's Goanet operations sponsored by Mrs. Daisy Faleiro If you would like to sponsor Goanet's operations contact: Herman Carneiro - [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- CARMO DCRUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mario, > > So is Nehru to blame why Goan Cooks and Butlers are > not quite entrepreneurial with all their epicurean > skills like the Bhayya Bhelpuri wallahs from Uttar > Pradesh ? Why or Why not ? Or is it the fervent > Portuguese-Catholic culture among Goan Christaos - > where entrepreneurial money making is frowned upon > and it is considered a sin to be a rich > entrepreneur (aka business man) ! > Mario responds: > Carmo, You certainly did not see any blame for Nehru in anything I wrote with regard to those Goan cooks and butlers who you say are not entrepreneurial - only for the monumental waste and inefficiency and mounting poverty of India's first 50 years since independence. > However, while your Bhayya Bhelpuriwallahs are entrepreneurial by definition, some Goan cooks and butlers are as well, and there are most Bhayyas are not entrepreneurial and work as laborers. Besides, many of the Goans you deride may have been more enterprising because they are to be found all over the world making a better living for their families than most of your jhopdi-existing, railway-line-urinating and defecating, pavement-spitting, public-electricity-robbing bhayya bhelpuriwallahs. > BTW, while on the subject of entrepreneurial Goans, albeit not from the cook and butler category, while visiting Goa recently, I was surprised to find that most of the local Goans did not know who Mark Fernandes (the investment banker, not my cousin) or Francisco DeSouza were, even though everyone knew who Victor Menezes is, whose achievements in entrepreneurial wealth creation in the US these Goan youngsters may have surpassed now. >
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers - Why are they not very entrepreneurial
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 20:23 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > From: "CARMO DCRUZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers - Why are they not very > entrepreneurial ? > So is Nehru to blame why Goan Cooks and Butlers are not quite > entrepreneurial with all their epicurean skills like the Bhayya > Bhelpuri > wallahs from Uttar Pradesh ? Why or Why not ? What a question, and coming from you of all people! The answer to this (as to all problems of Goa) is quite simple. It is because the foolish Goan people in their wilful unwisdom have not seen fit to anoint Manohar Parrikar -- the magnificent, great, sensational, fantastic, superb, unmatchable, etc. etc., who will go on to become PM of India and be the most magnificent (etc. etc. same as above) PM India has ever had -- as CM of Goa. Once they do that and get rid of all the GOAN GOON GAON CHORS and Maharashtrawadi gantis etc. and bring in the IIT educated, entrepreneurial, enterprising etc. etc. Manohar Parrikar, then Goans will become heads of all the big hotel chains in the world, occupy all seats in the IITs (oh, heaven) and Goa will wake into a new dawn! Please correct any errors in the above, I may have missed out some superlatives to describe the GREAT IIT-EDUCATED MAN and some expletives to condemn those who don't think much of him. Am still trying to get used to all this terminology and trend of thinking, never having been much enamoured of the genres of fantasy (or horror) writing. -- Question everything -- Karl Marx
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers (Francis Rodrigues)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Eugene I heard (as a boy) that what Nehru actually said was "cooks, butlers and musicians". That is not so bad. Tony Soares
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers - Why are they not very entrepreneurial ?
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well Samir, As a devout, church-going and god-fearing Goan Catholic who is a great fan of the church in Goa and the Jesuits, I must say that my research into Goa History has shown that the teachings/ preachings of the early Catholic Church in Goa "That Speculation was Sin" took the wind out of the entrepreneurial sails out of any God-fearing Catholic Goan. What is Business without Speculation ? It should be no surprise then that most (if not all) of the small posros and the big mining operations (and everything in between) in heavily Catholic Goa are owned by Hindu Goans and immigrants to Goa from nearby Maharashtra. Goa was rife with speculative business activity when the Portuguese landed here. Even Afonso De Albuquerque complained bitterly to his superiors in Portugal that there was a lot of business and sins of speculation going on in Goa when the Portuguese landed in the early 1500s. That attitude probably klled all the business endeavours and aspirations of our Christao Goenkars. No wonder then a career as an "Honest Businessman" is despised by most Goans, and Gujaratis, Marwadis, Sindhis and our Kokne Goans have stepped in to carry out business in Goa. Fr. Joaquim, Fr. Herman and Fr. Francis - you may want to comment on this. Best Regards, Dr. Carmo D'Cruz Indian Harbour Beach, Florida PS Mario Goveia: I heard a lot about the brisk business your Aloo-Bonda shop was doing in Jabalpur. If making and selling Aloo-Bondas is not indulging in speculation, then what is ? Perhaps you may want to comment on your experiences and share your recipes - so that more Goans may consider entrepreneurship as a career choice ! From: Samir Kelekar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: CARMO DCRUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], goanet@goanet.org Subject: RE: Goans - Cooks n Butlers - Why are they not very entrepreneurial ? Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:48:31 -0800 (PST) Goans have got left behind in all intellectual endeavours. In general, fear is gripping them more and more and so they are becoming more and more religious. The growing number of churches, temples etc reflects that. Also, they want easy money so they are out to sell their land, and their mother land, which currently fetches them good money. But I think this is not going to last for more than 10 to 20 years. The politicians of course lead the fray in this sell out. For the next generation of Goans, prostitution and pimping unfortunately might be the only way to earn a living. regards, Samir
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers - Why are they not very entrepreneurial ?
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Goans have got left behind in all intellectual endeavours. In general, fear is gripping them more and more and so they are becoming more and more religious. The growing number of churches, temples etc reflects that. Also, they want easy money so they are out to sell their land, and their mother land, which currently fetches them good money. But I think this is not goign to last for more than 10 to 20 years. The politicians of course lead the fray in this sell out. For the next generation of Goans, prostitution and pimping unfortunately might be the only way to earn a living. regards, Samir --- CARMO DCRUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mario, > > So is Nehru to blame why Goan Cooks and Butlers are > not quite > entrepreneurial with all their epicurean skills like > the Bhayya Bhelpuri > wallahs from Uttar Pradesh ? Why or Why not ? Or is > it the fervent > Portuguese-Catholic culture among Goan Christaos - > where entrepreneurial > money-making is frowned upon and it is considered a > sin to be a rich > entrepreneur (aka business man) ! > > Best Regards, > > Dr. Carmo D'Cruz > Indian Harbour Beach, Florida > > > >From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: CARMO DCRUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > [EMAIL PROTECTED], > >[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED], > >goanet@goanet.org > >Subject: RE: Goans - Cooks n Butlers > >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:43:40 -0800 (PST) > > > >While Jawarhalal Nehru must be acknowledged as a > >heroic freedom fighter > >and one of India's founding fathers, he was an > elitist Fabian socialist who > >had >the utmost contempt for private businesses and > >businessmen, which is > >why India had to suffer 50 years of monumental > waste and bureaucracy under > >socialism and friendships with totalitarian > communist regimes - while > >preaching peace and non-violence - until the > >unassuming Manmohan Singh > >began to turn this misguided > >ship around when he was Finance Minister about ten > years ago. > > > > Mario > > > Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] > While Jawarhalal Nehru must be acknowledged as a > heroic freedom fighter and one of India's founding > fathers, he was an elitist Fabian socialist who had > the utmost contempt for private businesses and > businessmen, which is why India had to suffer 50 years > of monumental waste and bureaucracy under socialism > and friendships with totalitarian communist regimes - > while preaching peace and non-violence - until the > unassuming Manmohan Singh began to turn this misguided > ship around when he was Finance Minister about ten > years ago. Regarding the bureaucracy and corruption, and the solitary friendship with one totalitarian communist regime, there can be no excuse. However, I think the idea of socialism seemed to many, at that time, to be an attractive alternative to capitalism... I'm not convinced India would have done much better with a different economic model. What, let the global corporate giants come and continue the pillage of the country? I think India needed to be able to play in the international arena with a strong hand, and while economically it was weak, it was self-sufficient in several areas before we came out to play. Allwyn.
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers - Why are they not very entrepreneurial ?
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mario, So is Nehru to blame why Goan Cooks and Butlers are not quite entrepreneurial with all their epicurean skills like the Bhayya Bhelpuri wallahs from Uttar Pradesh ? Why or Why not ? Or is it the fervent Portuguese-Catholic culture among Goan Christaos - where entrepreneurial money-making is frowned upon and it is considered a sin to be a rich entrepreneur (aka business man) ! Best Regards, Dr. Carmo D'Cruz Indian Harbour Beach, Florida >From: Mario Goveia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: CARMO DCRUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], >[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], >goanet@goanet.org >Subject: RE: Goans - Cooks n Butlers >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:43:40 -0800 (PST) > >While Jawarhalal Nehru must be acknowledged as a >heroic freedom fighter >and one of India's founding fathers, he was an elitist Fabian socialist who >had >the utmost contempt for private businesses and >businessmen, which is >why India had to suffer 50 years of monumental waste and bureaucracy under >socialism and friendships with totalitarian communist regimes - while >preaching peace and non-violence - until the >unassuming Manmohan Singh >began to turn this misguided >ship around when he was Finance Minister about ten years ago. > > Mario
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers (Francis Rodrigues)
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think this one had come on this forum. But like the customary circle, issues come up, get thrashed and forgotten. I think I wrote on similar lines before, but I will repeat it. Nehru, who was known for his temperament and not adapt to suffering fools, is "supposed" to have felt frustrated at the dilly-dallying of Goan freedom fighters and also because of their in-fighting, as you know there were many groups espousing the cause of Goa's freedom. Nehru wanted an universal agreement on the course of action from the groups, which were divided on how Goa should be freed. He is said to have made this öff-the-maturity when it came to dealing with Goa's freedom. Nehru himself was caught between his philosophy of non-alingment and no use of force and the pressure to liberate Goa because of the forthcoming elections. Congress was to benefit largely from such an action, which would divert the attention of the nation from other domestic crisis. It would also help Krishna Menon in his bid to win the North Bomaby seat, which he did. Lino Leitao, as I know, was involved in the freedom movement and possibly heard over the grapevine. It was not a putdown of Goans as Nehru had high respects for some Goans such as Frank Moraes, his biographer and a renowned journalist, and Cardinal Gracias, to mention but two. As many have mentioned here, Goa ruined Nehru's reputation as an advocate of non-violence. Perhaps he was wise to use force because he was a target of nationalists and Indian intellectuals for taking the Kashmir case to the UN. Similarly, the Goa case too lingered in the UN without result. He played into Portugal's hands, but Menon ultimately forced Nehru's hand to send the army and free Goa. Eugene Correia Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] While Jawarhalal Nehru must be acknowledged as a heroic freedom fighter and one of India's founding fathers, he was an elitist Fabian socialist who had the utmost contempt for private businesses and businessmen, which is why India had to suffer 50 years of monumental waste and bureaucracy under socialism and friendships with totalitarian communist regimes - while preaching peace and non-violence - until the unassuming Manmohan Singh began to turn this misguided ship around when he was Finance Minister about ten years ago. > --- CARMO DCRUZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Cousin Jose, > > Thanks for all your support regarding the "Goans - > Cooks n Butlers" issue. I > really appreciate it. As I mentioned earlier, I do > not take it as a > derogatory comment at all - Infact, I took it as a > compliment at IIT > whenever the other Indian students quoted Babu Nirad > Chaudhari (in Continent > of Circe) and teased us Goans in the mess-hall. I > was always chin up and > chest out when I retorted that "It only shows that > We Goans have great > epicurean tastes and preferences and we dont eat > just dal-bhath (dal-rice) > like the rest of them !" > > Best Regards, > > Carmo > Indian Harbour Beach, Florida > > > >From: "Jose Colaco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Roland Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > "Lino Leitao" > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "CARMO DCRUZ" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "FOR GoaNet > >please" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Nehru, Goa and Roland > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2007 07:07:41 -0500 > > Roland Francis wrote to carmo K3 d'cruz: > 1: Nehru despite all his faults and prejudices, did > not and would not ever > utter such a derogatory remark against his fellow > Indians. > 2: Purportedly quoting Nehru from Jose Colaco's > offhand written remarks is > not my idea of you proving that Jawaharlal actually > said what you imputed to > him. > jc > > While one should fully understand why Carmo K3 > d'Cruz and the other > saffronites would like to denigrate those who oppose > the saffronites, I > wonder on what basis Roland states with such > categorical certainty that > Nehru would not ever utter such a derogatory remark > against (Goans). > Was Roland living with Nehru? Was he working in his > office? if not, how is > Roland so certain? > > On the other hand, there is every reason for him to > have considered Goans to > be mere 'cooks and butlers'. That was the prevailing > impression created > about Goans by the Indian media at the time; even > later (vide appendix 1 > >infra) > > BTW: those remarks have been reported by a well > known Goan Canadian > intelectual who has a history of close association > with the Goa Freedom > Fighters and anti-Salazar intellectuals in Goa.(vide > appendix 2 infra) > > Is Roland Francis saying that Lino Leitao has made > this up from thin air? > > I do not know about others but it does appear to me > that Roland Francis has > lost this "challenge" with K3. > > Time to pack your bags and masala, old chap. The net > is full of recipes. > K3's mouth is watering. Hopefully, Roland can cook. > > jc > > Appendix 1: > http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jan/18goa.htm > Sandesh Prabhudesai in Panaji: Goa, Haryana in > culture war > Appendix 2: http://www.colaco.net/1/nizgoemcar.htm > > >
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Counselor, Both your appendices are vague to the point of varnish. Roland is right. That infamous 'quote' is an urban myth - perpetrated by Portuguese apologists - of which I may or not be one! Time for the well-fed Carmo to up his wind-blown kashti and head for Ontario, via Nassau! FR ___ >From: "Jose Colaco" > > BTW: those remarks have been reported by a well known Goan Canadian > intelectual who has a history of close association with the Goa Freedom > Fighters and anti-Salazar intellectuals in Goa.(vide appendix 2 infra) > > Is Roland Francis saying that Lino Leitao has made this up from thin air? > > I do not know about others but it does appear to me that Roland Francis > has > lost this "challenge" with K3. > > Time to pack your bags and masala, old chap. The net is full of recipes. > K3's mouth is watering. Hopefully, Roland can cook. >
Re: [Goanet] Goans - Cooks n Butlers
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Flat for Sale: Mapuca, Goa (Ansabhat) - 10 min walk to Mapuca Market 2 Bedroom-Living-Dining-Kitchen-Bath-Balcony-Terrazo Floors Great Investment - Winter Getaway Asking Canadian $ 31,500/- or Indian Rs 10 lakhs Contact Rosario Fernandes - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Cousin Jose, Thanks for all your support regarding the "Goans - Cooks n Butlers" issue. I really appreciate it. As I mentioned earlier, I do not take it as a derogatory comment at all - Infact, I took it as a compliment at IIT whenever the other Indian students quoted Babu Nirad Chaudhari (in Continent of Circe) and teased us Goans in the mess-hall. I was always chin up and chest out when I retorted that "It only shows that We Goans have great epicurean tastes and preferences and we dont eat just dal-bhath (dal-rice) like the rest of them !" Best Regards, Carmo Indian Harbour Beach, Florida
