[google-appengine] Re: Why is the Email Service so unreliable

[Tapir]

"Now emails fail with the same error for anything up to eight or nine
hours, then without reason or explanation the email service will
suddently start working and all the emails will be delivered. "

The experience is much like mine. Sometimes every new member of my
website will activate their accounts,
but sometimes, none will activate their accounts.

On Nov 21, 2:33 am, Jeff Gager  wrote:
> I have written an app that sends email notifications to it's users
> under some circumstances. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.
> The code doesn't change and I am using the same small set of emails
> addresses to send and receive emails so I can't see what I am doing
> wrong.
>
> When it fails I get exceptions that begin like this;
>
> MessagingException: MailService IO failed (java.io.IOException:
> Internal error)
> javax.mail.SendFailedException: MailService IO failed
> (java.io.IOException: Internal error)
>         at
> com.google.appengine.api.mail.stdimpl.GMTransport.sendMessage(GMTransport.java:
> 253)
>         at javax.mail.Transport.send(Transport.java:95)
>         at javax.mail.Transport.send(Transport.java:48)
>         at com.hotf.server.EmailService$1.run(EmailService.java:119)
>
> So I thought I would set up a deferred task queue and configure it to
> keep trying every 15 minutes until it works.
>
> Now emails fail with the same error for anything up to eight or nine
> hours, then without reason or explanation the email service will
> suddently start working and all the emails will be delivered.
>
> I have searched through this group and found and number of people have
> had problems but I don't think any of them apply to the testing I am
> doing. I am sending from the email address of the apps administrator
> account, I have no quotes in my email addresses etc...
>
> The only lead I haven't followed up yet is that someone suggested the
> email service is unreliable if you don't enable billing. So before I
> take that step, can someone point out anything else I may be doing
> wrong please.
>
> My code is;
>
> Properties props = new Properties();
> Session session = Session.getDefaultInstance(props, null);
>
> try {
>
> Message msg = new MimeMessage(session);
> msg.setFrom(new InternetAddress("x...@gmail.com", "SUBJECT"));
> String email = a.getEmail().replace("\"","").replace("'", "").trim();
> msg.addRecipient(Message.RecipientType.TO,new InternetAddress(email,
> a.getName()));
> msg.setSubject(subject);
> msg.setText(body);
> log.info("Sending notification email to " + email);
> Transport.send(msg);
>
> } catch (UnsupportedEncodingException e) {
>
> log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);
>
> } catch (AddressException e) {
>
> log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);
>
> } catch (MessagingException e) {
>
> log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);
>
> } catch (Exception e) {
>
> log.severe(e.getMessage());
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);

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RE: [google-appengine] Re: Idle Instances and Pending Latency

[Brandon Wirtz]

Then you are doing it wrong. 

 

I don't like the scheduler. It is written "differently" than I would have
written it.  But if tuned correctly it does save you a boat load of money.

 



If Max idle was not set I would be paying for up to 25 instances instead of
5.

 

My app will run with max idle set to 1, but doing so results in the latency
(and the perceived slowness of page loads)  goes up.

 

Hence the writing of the guide so that you can "experience" good results.

 

-Original Message-
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tapir
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:56 PM
To: Google App Engine
Subject: [google-appengine] Re: Idle Instances and Pending Latency

 

In my experience, "max idle instance" is useless, it is even make situations
worse.

"mix idle instance" works. yes, which means "more money" works.

 

On Nov 20, 10:04 am, "Brandon Wirtz" < 
drak...@digerat.com> wrote:

> Setting your max idle instances and your pending latency is hard, and 

> it requires you do some testing, so I wrote a guide.

> 

>  
http://www.xyhd.tv/2011/11/industry-news/setting-google-appengine-gae...

> mance-sliders-for-instance-and-latency/

> 

> This is an intro not an end all, but it should help you figure out 

> where to start.

 

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<>

[google-appengine] Re: 1.6.0 is now launched

[Alexis]

Alfred, I also noticed the split, but I'm talking about something
else.
What is being written are entities from inside the
google.appengine.api.logservice package
(_LogRecord, _LogLine, inside a namespace called "_Logs")

I suspect this may announce some feature about managing logs using
some APIs, which would be great,
but as this is not available yet and slows down performances of the
dev server as I described,
I just commented out any writes about these entities in the SDK
sources
(google.appengine.api.logservice.logservice_stub.py).

This "fixed" my issues.


On 19 nov, 04:08, PK  wrote:
> Alfred/Alexis,
>
> have you gotten anywhere with this issue? Is there a case opened?
>
> I agree that what Alexis reports is indeed a very serious issue. Please
> take a look at issue 
> 6355for the 
> way it manifests itself in my environment.
>
> Thanks,
> PK

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[google-appengine] SMS fail

[gtasso]

Hi all ,

My friend wants to create a new app for the first time, we are from
Vanuatu and the Telecom services here is not register with google. Can
we have someone point us to somebody who can help us create that
application by bypassing the SMS code requirement.

Best Regards,

George.

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Re: [google-appengine] Why is the Email Service so unreliable

[Martin Waller]

Hi,

I've been trying out Amazom Web Services SES for the last week and it seems to 
be fine. It gives you so much more detail about mail send and mail that gets 
rejected. I'm going to stop using the GAE mail interface.

Martin

On 20 Nov 2011, at 18:57, Leandro Rezende wrote:

> i have the same problem. i just give up looking for a solution.
> 
> i hope this problem does not happen when i change my application to the 
> billling status.
> 
> 2011/11/20 Jeff Gager 
> I have written an app that sends email notifications to it's users
> under some circumstances. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.
> The code doesn't change and I am using the same small set of emails
> addresses to send and receive emails so I can't see what I am doing
> wrong.
> 
> When it fails I get exceptions that begin like this;
> 
> MessagingException: MailService IO failed (java.io.IOException:
> Internal error)
> javax.mail.SendFailedException: MailService IO failed
> (java.io.IOException: Internal error)
>at
> com.google.appengine.api.mail.stdimpl.GMTransport.sendMessage(GMTransport.java:
> 253)
>at javax.mail.Transport.send(Transport.java:95)
>at javax.mail.Transport.send(Transport.java:48)
>at com.hotf.server.EmailService$1.run(EmailService.java:119)
> 
> So I thought I would set up a deferred task queue and configure it to
> keep trying every 15 minutes until it works.
> 
> Now emails fail with the same error for anything up to eight or nine
> hours, then without reason or explanation the email service will
> suddently start working and all the emails will be delivered.
> 
> I have searched through this group and found and number of people have
> had problems but I don't think any of them apply to the testing I am
> doing. I am sending from the email address of the apps administrator
> account, I have no quotes in my email addresses etc...
> 
> The only lead I haven't followed up yet is that someone suggested the
> email service is unreliable if you don't enable billing. So before I
> take that step, can someone point out anything else I may be doing
> wrong please.
> 
> My code is;
> 
> Properties props = new Properties();
> Session session = Session.getDefaultInstance(props, null);
> 
> try {
> 
> Message msg = new MimeMessage(session);
> msg.setFrom(new InternetAddress("x...@gmail.com", "SUBJECT"));
> String email = a.getEmail().replace("\"","").replace("'", "").trim();
> msg.addRecipient(Message.RecipientType.TO,new InternetAddress(email,
> a.getName()));
> msg.setSubject(subject);
> msg.setText(body);
> log.info("Sending notification email to " + email);
> Transport.send(msg);
> 
> } catch (UnsupportedEncodingException e) {
> 
> log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);
> 
> } catch (AddressException e) {
> 
> log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);
> 
> } catch (MessagingException e) {
> 
> log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);
> 
> } catch (Exception e) {
> 
> log.severe(e.getMessage());
> e.printStackTrace();
> throw new RuntimeException(e);
> 
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> 
> 
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[google-appengine] Re: Why is the Email Service so unreliable

[Martin Waller]

I forgot to add that we now pay for this service and if we are finding
it to be failing us then we really should be getting a refund!

Martin

On Nov 21, 9:21 am, Martin Waller  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been trying out Amazom Web Services SES for the last week and it seems 
> to be fine. It gives you so much more detail about mail send and mail that 
> gets rejected. I'm going to stop using the GAE mail interface.
>
> Martin
>
> On 20 Nov 2011, at 18:57, Leandro Rezende wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > i have the same problem. i just give up looking for a solution.
>
> > i hope this problem does not happen when i change my application to the 
> > billling status.
>
> > 2011/11/20 Jeff Gager 
> > I have written an app that sends email notifications to it's users
> > under some circumstances. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.
> > The code doesn't change and I am using the same small set of emails
> > addresses to send and receive emails so I can't see what I am doing
> > wrong.
>
> > When it fails I get exceptions that begin like this;
>
> > MessagingException: MailService IO failed (java.io.IOException:
> > Internal error)
> > javax.mail.SendFailedException: MailService IO failed
> > (java.io.IOException: Internal error)
> >        at
> > com.google.appengine.api.mail.stdimpl.GMTransport.sendMessage(GMTransport.j 
> > ava:
> > 253)
> >        at javax.mail.Transport.send(Transport.java:95)
> >        at javax.mail.Transport.send(Transport.java:48)
> >        at com.hotf.server.EmailService$1.run(EmailService.java:119)
>
> > So I thought I would set up a deferred task queue and configure it to
> > keep trying every 15 minutes until it works.
>
> > Now emails fail with the same error for anything up to eight or nine
> > hours, then without reason or explanation the email service will
> > suddently start working and all the emails will be delivered.
>
> > I have searched through this group and found and number of people have
> > had problems but I don't think any of them apply to the testing I am
> > doing. I am sending from the email address of the apps administrator
> > account, I have no quotes in my email addresses etc...
>
> > The only lead I haven't followed up yet is that someone suggested the
> > email service is unreliable if you don't enable billing. So before I
> > take that step, can someone point out anything else I may be doing
> > wrong please.
>
> > My code is;
>
> > Properties props = new Properties();
> > Session session = Session.getDefaultInstance(props, null);
>
> > try {
>
> > Message msg = new MimeMessage(session);
> > msg.setFrom(new InternetAddress("x...@gmail.com", "SUBJECT"));
> > String email = a.getEmail().replace("\"","").replace("'", "").trim();
> > msg.addRecipient(Message.RecipientType.TO,new InternetAddress(email,
> > a.getName()));
> > msg.setSubject(subject);
> > msg.setText(body);
> > log.info("Sending notification email to " + email);
> > Transport.send(msg);
>
> > } catch (UnsupportedEncodingException e) {
>
> > log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> > e.printStackTrace();
> > throw new RuntimeException(e);
>
> > } catch (AddressException e) {
>
> > log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> > e.printStackTrace();
> > throw new RuntimeException(e);
>
> > } catch (MessagingException e) {
>
> > log.log(Level.SEVERE, "MessagingException: " + e.getMessage(), e);
> > e.printStackTrace();
> > throw new RuntimeException(e);
>
> > } catch (Exception e) {
>
> > log.severe(e.getMessage());
> > e.printStackTrace();
> > throw new RuntimeException(e);
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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Re: [google-appengine] WTF, got charged for $2.10 unexpectedly!

[Kenneth]

I just got hit with 2 of these.  I found an app that had billing enabled 
which I had forgotten about.  The bill doesn't include the appid wich is a 
huge oversight.

Star this one:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=4419 

It would have been nice to receive an email warning us about these apps 
that were billing enabled but not incurring charges under the old model.

Oh well.

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Re: [google-appengine] SMS fail

[Amy Unruh]

hi,

You can fill out this form to get your verification done:
https://appengine.google.com/waitlist/sms_issues


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:17 PM, gtasso  wrote:

> Hi all ,
>
> My friend wants to create a new app for the first time, we are from
> Vanuatu and the Telecom services here is not register with google. Can
> we have someone point us to somebody who can help us create that
> application by bypassing the SMS code requirement.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> George.
>
> --
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>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Kaan Soral]

Hi Brandon,

I don't think you read my post

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Google App Engine's Team Dishonesty

[Yoav Amit]

Gregory hi,

I'm sorry, I still don't see how next time an event like on the 8th of
November happens (which, correct me if i'm wrong, was a system wide issue),
I will have any tools to confront it. Your suggestion to pay the $500 fee,
seems to be the only solution (also suggested here by Google's BizDev
representatives in the GDD and later discussions). However, this and the
custom domain SSL price makes GAE a very (very, very) expensive solution
compared to EC2.

Also please note that there is still no information (even not just the
basic of basic information) regarding the 8th of November spike.
Transparency helps making your clients feel more assured of the product you
are giving them.

If you wish to discuss this further, you may email me. However, needless to
say, we have recently started working on transporting our system to EC2, so
we have more control when such events happen (yes, on the price of handling
our own IT).

Thank you all,

 - Yoav.


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Marcel Manz  wrote:

> I would suggest that Google splits the current availability percentage in
> the system status into two values.
>
> One related to applications using MS, the other related to applications
> using HR. A single value for the hole system somehow doesn't make sense, as
> this number won't be accurate to anyone, since no application can use MS
> and HR datastore at the same time.
>
> One could now argue that it further should need to be split according the
> language that is been used (Java, Python, Go). I'm sure the Googlers find a
> way to better present an accurate number for certain application groups.
>
> People who are using HR would like to see an over-all system status
> related to the HR datastore and not a much lower number just because MS
> apps are taking this value down. If the MS value is separately displayed,
> it should also motivate more people to migrate to HR.
>
> Marcel
>
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-- 
 - Yoav

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[google-appengine] What happened to the promise of tagging reported bugs within a week?

[pdknsk]

Welcome to the second post in the popular "What happened to" series.
If you've missed the previous post, it was titled "What happened to
the promised reliability improvement for email delivery?" and can be
found at the following link.

http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/9538636ec8be6955/

:)

Anyway, Google announced this in January.

"Our goal for this month is to have 100% of all existing issues in the
issues tracker categorized, and all new issues categorized within a
week."

http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/browse_thread/thread/9538636ec8be6955/

Emphasis on "new issues categorized within a week". Well, the number
of not categorised bugs is currently at 261, of which the oldest was
filed about 10 weeks ago.

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/list?can=2&q=status:new&sort=id

IMO it reduces the motivation to report bugs if Google doesn't read
them.

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[google-appengine] Re: What happened to the promise of tagging reported bugs within a week?

[pdknsk]

The correct link to the announcement by Google.

http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/msg/1cfb04d97d6634ac

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[google-appengine] Re: frequent spinups of instances, very high frontend instance usage

[Marcel Manz]

Same problem here - see my earlier post including screenshot: 
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/google-appengine/dQQ2y01Mbgs

Marcel

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[google-appengine] HTTPS with wildcards subdomains on custom domains

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Hey there

I have setup wild card subdomains for my custom domain on appengine:

*.customdomain.com points to
216.239.32.21
, 
216.239.34.21
, 
216.239.36.21
, 
216.239.38.21

so my app is happily serving traffic from any subdomain without additional
configuration:
foo.customdomain.com, bar.customdomain.com, a54h94brodnsln.customdomain.com
 

If I sign up for a premier account, can I have one https certificate for
all these subdomain now and serve https traffic on any subdomain?

Cheers,
-Andrin

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[google-appengine] Re: HTTPS with wildcards subdomains on custom domains

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

Guess I found the answer in the SSL announcement mail:

*We will be offering two types of SSL service, Server Name Indication
(SNI) and Virtual IP(VIP). SNI will be significantly less expensive
than VIP when this service is fully launched, however unlike VIP it
does not work everywhere SSL is supported, notably it is not supported
by IE and Safari on Windows XP. Multiple certificates are supported by
SNI, while the VIP service only supports a single certificate per
virtual IP address. Wildcard certificates and certificates with
alternate names are supported by both SNI and VIP.*
*
*
So it will work, right?

-Andrin

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Hey there
>
> I have setup wild card subdomains for my custom domain on appengine:
>
> *.customdomain.com points to 
> 216.239.32.21
> , 
> 216.239.34.21
> , 
> 216.239.36.21
> , 
> 216.239.38.21
>
> so my app is happily serving traffic from any subdomain without additional
> configuration:
> foo.customdomain.com, bar.customdomain.com,
> a54h94brodnsln.customdomain.com 
>
> If I sign up for a premier account, can I have one https certificate for
> all these subdomain now and serve https traffic on any subdomain?
>
> Cheers,
> -Andrin
>

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[google-appengine] Re: HTTPS with wildcards subdomains on custom domains

[Andrin von Rechenberg]

oh, and one last question:

will you also start supporting https://subdomain.app-id.appspot.com ?
Currently this is an invalid certificate because of the subdomain.

-Andrin


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
wrote:

> Guess I found the answer in the SSL announcement mail:
>
> *We will be offering two types of SSL service, Server Name Indication
> (SNI) and Virtual IP(VIP). SNI will be significantly less expensive
> than VIP when this service is fully launched, however unlike VIP it
> does not work everywhere SSL is supported, notably it is not supported
> by IE and Safari on Windows XP. Multiple certificates are supported by
> SNI, while the VIP service only supports a single certificate per
> virtual IP address. Wildcard certificates and certificates with
> alternate names are supported by both SNI and VIP.*
> *
> *
> So it will work, right?
>
> -Andrin
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg  > wrote:
>
>> Hey there
>>
>> I have setup wild card subdomains for my custom domain on appengine:
>>
>> *.customdomain.com points to 
>> 216.239.32.21
>> , 
>> 216.239.34.21
>> , 
>> 216.239.36.21
>> , 
>> 216.239.38.21
>>
>> so my app is happily serving traffic from any subdomain without
>> additional configuration:
>> foo.customdomain.com, bar.customdomain.com,
>> a54h94brodnsln.customdomain.com 
>>
>> If I sign up for a premier account, can I have one https certificate for
>> all these subdomain now and serve https traffic on any subdomain?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> -Andrin
>>
>
>

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Re: [google-appengine] Using RAM instead of datastore - any limits?

[Joshua Smith]

When building in-memory caches, it's typical to use a weak reference system 
(like a WeakHashMap in Java) so you don't have to rely on heuristics for how 
much memory you should use. Googling around, I found a thing called 
WeakValueDictionary in python. Anyone here have experience using one of these 
in GAE?

On Nov 20, 2011, at 11:26 PM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:

> You get an amount of ram close to but not always equal to 128M or ram PER 
> instance.
>  
> Python 2.7 uses more memory for Hello World, and less for most operations. 
> They both use the same for storing things like Data Caches.
>  
> You can use the local instance in addition to data store. Not instead.  My 
> apps waterfall from edge cache to instance memory  to memcache to datastore 
> Use all the ram you can, it is free.  Don’t count on it being there, don’t 
> over use it, and stick to the API’s and Libraries for accessing it, or the 
> world will end violently.
> No, I won’t share code for doing this it is our biggest selling point.
>  
> 
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of JH
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 5:17 PM
> To: Google App Engine
> Subject: [google-appengine] Re: Using RAM instead of datastore - any limits?
>  
> You get 128 megs of ram for front end instances.  Also, so far my experience 
> says that py 2.7 uses quite a bit more ram just to run hello world.
>  
> On Nov 20, 5:58 pm, ThePiachu  wrote:
> > My application relies on accessing a lot of simple stored data and
> > displaying it. I'm considering storing all data in the RAM of the
> > application in order not to have problems with datastore access
> > quotas, but I'm not sure if there are any limits of how much data can
> > be stored this way. Is there any limit on how much data can one store
> > in say, a vector in RAM?
>  
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RE: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Brandon Wirtz]

Yes I did.

 

McDonald's Releases the McRib. You eat it, you love it, you visit every day
to get it.

McDonald's announces that the McRib is going nationwide in 90 days and that
if you want to eat it, it will be Twice the price, but if you make order it
with a shake, fries, and 

Coke it will only be10% more.

 

You continue to eat the McRib every day. And then after a 2 weeks you
complain that McDonald's billed you twice the original price.  But it's not
your fault because you are lactose intolerant and can't eat the shake.

 

Will McDonald's give your money back?

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaan Soral
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:32 AM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

 

Hi Brandon,

I don't think you read my post

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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Deepak Singh]

My application while on loading makes a read operation around 6500 rows
which is fixed for app. I have set memcache for this feature with cache
expiration to 8 days. Bu i observe that cache usually fails 5 to 6 times in
day, so in that case my app has datastore read of around 6500 rows. Thus my
app heavily uses datastore read quota whic is very costly to me.

I have been unable to make cache available for 8 days or even working
properly.

It would be great if you can let me know how to optmize this cache properly.

Thanks
Deepak

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> Memcache is just a cache. Your values have no guarantee of being there even
> 1micro second after you did the write.
>
> If you post your code we might be able to help, but I assure you Memcache
> does work.
>
> My app does reads from the datastore or memcache for every request,
> sometimes to for initialization of variables... like Who am I, Why am I
> here, what configuration am I in.   And then to serve the request...
>
> We use a combination of instance memory and memcache to not have to talk to
> the data store. Datastore reads are "slow" compared to Instance Memory and
> Memcache.
>
> Datastore Write Operations   0.24 Million Ops0.19
> $1.00/ Million Ops   $0.19
> Datastore Read Operations0.02 Million Ops0.00
> $0.70/ Million Ops   $0.00
>
>
> I didn't count the "reads in my app" to the "writes" but I know I do reads
> for initialization every time, and reads for data every time.  I only do
> writes on some requests...   So I am going to be conservative and say that
> I
> do 3x as many reads as writes in my code, but so far today I have hit the
> Datastore with a write 10x as many times as I have a read.  That works out
> to my local memory and memcache saving me 97% of the time.
>
> I don't have an easy way to tell you how much of the time that is instance
> memory and how many times it is memcache, but I assure you it works.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamil Rzayev
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:48 PM
> To: Google App Engine
> Subject: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work
>
> Hi.
>
> I have to use memcache to store some values frequently accessible by
> application I am working on.
> The Google App Engine Memcache doesn't work as it apparently removes values
> after a couple of minutes I store it at memcache.
>
> I really need any idea and would highly appreciate for any comments.
> I have already tried to ask here, but got response that I need to store
> values as soon as I read them and didn't work.
>
> I am still losing my values...
>
> --
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>
>
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>


-- 
Deepak Singh

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[google-appengine] Re: What's wrong with the HRD App?

[Simon Knott]

Can you determine what is causing the latency by using AppStats?  MemCache, 
URLFetch, Datastore?

Posting the overall latencies isn't hugely helpful.

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[google-appengine] Re: What's wrong with the HRD App?

[Junyu Chen]

The API call taskqueue.BulkAdd() took too long to respond and was cancelled.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
 line 1511, in __call__
rv = self.handle_exception(request, response, e)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
 line 1505, in __call__
rv = self.router.dispatch(request, response)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
 line 1253, in default_dispatcher
return route.handler_adapter(request, response)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
 line 1077, in __call__
return handler.dispatch()
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
 line 547, in dispatch
return self.handle_exception(e, self.app.debug)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
 line 545, in dispatch
return method(*args, **kwargs)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py",
 line 717, in add
return Queue(queue_name).add(self, transactional=transactional)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py",
 line 803, in add
self.__AddTasks(tasks, transactional)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py",
 line 834, in __AddTasks
apiproxy_stub_map.MakeSyncCall('taskqueue', 'BulkAdd', request, response)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/apiproxy_stub_map.py",
 line 94, in MakeSyncCall
return stubmap.MakeSyncCall(service, call, request, response)
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/apiproxy_stub_map.py",
 line 308, in MakeSyncCall
rpc.CheckSuccess()
  File 
"/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/apiproxy_rpc.py",
 line 133, in CheckSuccess
raise self.exception
DeadlineExceededError: The API call taskqueue.BulkAdd() took too long to 
respond and was cancelled.

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[google-appengine] Re: What's wrong with the HRD App?

[Junyu Chen]

TaskQueue APIs, I have no problem in 3 other apps with the same code to add 
a task through TaskQueue API.

and it just happened an hour ago without any change in my code or increase 
of traffic.

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[google-appengine] Re: Idle Instances and Pending Latency

[Tapir]

Yes "Max idle instances" will limit your cost.
It is not good for performance.

As I always say, the problem is the instance scheduler often creates
unnecessary instances.

On Nov 21, 3:12 am, "Brandon Wirtz"  wrote:
> Then you are doing it wrong.
>
> I don't like the scheduler. It is written "differently" than I would have
> written it.  But if tuned correctly it does save you a boat load of money.
>
> If Max idle was not set I would be paying for up to 25 instances instead of
> 5.
>
> My app will run with max idle set to 1, but doing so results in the latency
> (and the perceived slowness of page loads)  goes up.
>
> Hence the writing of the guide so that you can "experience" good results.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tapir
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:56 PM
> To: Google App Engine
> Subject: [google-appengine] Re: Idle Instances and Pending Latency
>
> In my experience, "max idle instance" is useless, it is even make situations
> worse.
>
> "mix idle instance" works. yes, which means "more money" works.
>
> On Nov 20, 10:04 am, "Brandon Wirtz" < 
> drak...@digerat.com> wrote:
>
> > Setting your max idle instances and your pending latency is hard, and
>
> > it requires you do some testing, so I wrote a guide.
>
> >  http://www.xyhd.tv/2011/11/industry-news/setting-google-appengine-gae...
>
> > mance-sliders-for-instance-and-latency/
>
> > This is an intro not an end all, but it should help you figure out
>
> > where to start.
>
> --
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>
>
>
>  image003.jpg
> 14KViewDownload

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[google-appengine] Re: What's wrong with the HRD App?

[Junyu Chen]

I just disabled TaskQueue API call in this app, looks like the latency back 
to normal.

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[google-appengine] WTF, who move my post in some groups I never visited from the GAE group?

[Tapir]

Please my google group profile:
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=H7Au6hMAAADuB2jQ8hTUDN1Awkvn9x_UWMj6vob75xS36mXc24h6ww

Many my posts in GAE group are moved some adult content group. WTF?

Here is screen shot:
http://i.imgur.com/2OxnN.png

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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Jeff Schnitzer]

Memcache doesn't work that way.  You don't get any guaranteed quantity of
cache and it's not guaranteed to last for any specific length of time -
memcache is a shared resource and google allocates it according to their
own magic algorithms.

Data falling out of the cache every 4-5 hours?  That doesn't sound like a
problem to me.  If you have cache data that needs predictable durability,
consider a backend.

Jeff

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Deepak Singh wrote:

> My application while on loading makes a read operation around 6500 rows
> which is fixed for app. I have set memcache for this feature with cache
> expiration to 8 days. Bu i observe that cache usually fails 5 to 6 times in
> day, so in that case my app has datastore read of around 6500 rows. Thus my
> app heavily uses datastore read quota whic is very costly to me.
>
> I have been unable to make cache available for 8 days or even working
> properly.
>
> It would be great if you can let me know how to optmize this cache
> properly.
>
> Thanks
> Deepak
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
>
>> Memcache is just a cache. Your values have no guarantee of being there
>> even
>> 1micro second after you did the write.
>>
>> If you post your code we might be able to help, but I assure you Memcache
>> does work.
>>
>> My app does reads from the datastore or memcache for every request,
>> sometimes to for initialization of variables... like Who am I, Why am I
>> here, what configuration am I in.   And then to serve the request...
>>
>> We use a combination of instance memory and memcache to not have to talk
>> to
>> the data store. Datastore reads are "slow" compared to Instance Memory and
>> Memcache.
>>
>> Datastore Write Operations   0.24 Million Ops0.19
>> $1.00/ Million Ops   $0.19
>> Datastore Read Operations0.02 Million Ops0.00
>> $0.70/ Million Ops   $0.00
>>
>>
>> I didn't count the "reads in my app" to the "writes" but I know I do reads
>> for initialization every time, and reads for data every time.  I only do
>> writes on some requests...   So I am going to be conservative and say
>> that I
>> do 3x as many reads as writes in my code, but so far today I have hit the
>> Datastore with a write 10x as many times as I have a read.  That works out
>> to my local memory and memcache saving me 97% of the time.
>>
>> I don't have an easy way to tell you how much of the time that is instance
>> memory and how many times it is memcache, but I assure you it works.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamil Rzayev
>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:48 PM
>> To: Google App Engine
>> Subject: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> I have to use memcache to store some values frequently accessible by
>> application I am working on.
>> The Google App Engine Memcache doesn't work as it apparently removes
>> values
>> after a couple of minutes I store it at memcache.
>>
>> I really need any idea and would highly appreciate for any comments.
>> I have already tried to ask here, but got response that I need to store
>> values as soon as I read them and didn't work.
>>
>> I am still losing my values...
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
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>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Deepak Singh
>
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I am the 20%

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Re: [google-appengine] 1.6 on Linux64: The rdbms API is not available because the MySQLdb library could not be loaded

[Bob Hancock]

It was an odd path problem that I resolved.  It was also a read herring 
since the rest of the tracback still occurs.  

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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Deepak Singh]

ok. So if i fetch these 6500 entities through a backend and set them to
cache for 8 days, will there be durability for 8 days?

My app is low trafffic app and there might be time period when there is no
traffic to site setting instances to 0 for that time period.

Thanks
Deepak

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:20 PM, Jeff Schnitzer  wrote:

> Memcache doesn't work that way.  You don't get any guaranteed quantity of
> cache and it's not guaranteed to last for any specific length of time -
> memcache is a shared resource and google allocates it according to their
> own magic algorithms.
>
> Data falling out of the cache every 4-5 hours?  That doesn't sound like a
> problem to me.  If you have cache data that needs predictable durability,
> consider a backend.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Deepak Singh 
> wrote:
>
>> My application while on loading makes a read operation around 6500 rows
>> which is fixed for app. I have set memcache for this feature with cache
>> expiration to 8 days. Bu i observe that cache usually fails 5 to 6 times in
>> day, so in that case my app has datastore read of around 6500 rows. Thus my
>> app heavily uses datastore read quota whic is very costly to me.
>>
>> I have been unable to make cache available for 8 days or even working
>> properly.
>>
>> It would be great if you can let me know how to optmize this cache
>> properly.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Deepak
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
>>
>>> Memcache is just a cache. Your values have no guarantee of being there
>>> even
>>> 1micro second after you did the write.
>>>
>>> If you post your code we might be able to help, but I assure you Memcache
>>> does work.
>>>
>>> My app does reads from the datastore or memcache for every request,
>>> sometimes to for initialization of variables... like Who am I, Why am I
>>> here, what configuration am I in.   And then to serve the request...
>>>
>>> We use a combination of instance memory and memcache to not have to talk
>>> to
>>> the data store. Datastore reads are "slow" compared to Instance Memory
>>> and
>>> Memcache.
>>>
>>> Datastore Write Operations   0.24 Million Ops0.19
>>> $1.00/ Million Ops   $0.19
>>> Datastore Read Operations0.02 Million Ops0.00
>>> $0.70/ Million Ops   $0.00
>>>
>>>
>>> I didn't count the "reads in my app" to the "writes" but I know I do
>>> reads
>>> for initialization every time, and reads for data every time.  I only do
>>> writes on some requests...   So I am going to be conservative and say
>>> that I
>>> do 3x as many reads as writes in my code, but so far today I have hit the
>>> Datastore with a write 10x as many times as I have a read.  That works
>>> out
>>> to my local memory and memcache saving me 97% of the time.
>>>
>>> I don't have an easy way to tell you how much of the time that is
>>> instance
>>> memory and how many times it is memcache, but I assure you it works.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamil Rzayev
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:48 PM
>>> To: Google App Engine
>>> Subject: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I have to use memcache to store some values frequently accessible by
>>> application I am working on.
>>> The Google App Engine Memcache doesn't work as it apparently removes
>>> values
>>> after a couple of minutes I store it at memcache.
>>>
>>> I really need any idea and would highly appreciate for any comments.
>>> I have already tried to ask here, but got response that I need to store
>>> values as soon as I read them and didn't work.
>>>
>>> I am still losing my values...
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Deepak Singh
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> I 

Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Andrius A]

Hi Kaan,

I totally agree with you, I have the same problem. Google released
optimization guide which states how to save, they suggest using backends
and talk about multithreading, non of these features are fully working. 2.7
is broken and backends development under local environment is broken as
well. I have sent couple of emails directly to google billing asking for
the refund but haven't received any answer!

The prices we are paying now are too expensive, it would be silly for me
sit and just wait if things will come better. They need to admit that they
need to slash the prices until the issues are fixed!

On 21 November 2011 14:46, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> Yes I did.
>
> ** **
>
> McDonald’s Releases the McRib. You eat it, you love it, you visit every
> day to get it.
>
> McDonald’s announces that the McRib is going nationwide in 90 days and
> that if you want to eat it, it will be Twice the price, but if you make
> order it with a shake, fries, and 
>
> Coke it will only be10% more.
>
> ** **
>
> You continue to eat the McRib every day. And then after a 2 weeks you
> complain that McDonald’s billed you twice the original price.  But it’s not
> your fault because you are lactose intolerant and can’t eat the shake.
>
> ** **
>
> Will McDonald’s give your money back?
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kaan Soral
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 2:32 AM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Hi Brandon,
>
> I don't think you read my post
>
> --
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[google-appengine] Re: Why is the Email Service so unreliable

[PK]

I want to add my experience here which happens to be positive. I have been 
finding the e-mail service very reliable. A couple of data points: 

1. I use python.
2. With the current load, the service only sends  about 100-500 e-mails per 
day, often in batches of 50-100.

With this configuration I have had very happy customers for a couple of 
years now. In fact, everybody assumes that e-mails will be delivered 
instantaneously, so the only one time that e-mails were queued for several 
hours we all panicked...

Having said that, some more visibility on where the e-mails are before they 
leave the Google infrastructure would be welcome for the rare cases when 
the customer calls and says: "my e-mails were not received".

PK
http://www.gae123.com

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[google-appengine] Re: What happened to the promise of tagging reported bugs within a week?

[Rick Mangi]

Couldn't agree more. Bugs should be responded to in days or hours, not
weeks.

On Nov 21, 7:13 am, pdknsk  wrote:
> The correct link to the announcement by Google.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/msg/1cfb04d97d6634ac

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: What's wrong with the HRD App?

[Will]

I am having the similar error as Chen's. 35135 'deadlineexceeded'
errors in the past 9 hours, most of them is "The API call
taskqueue.BulkAdd() took too long to respond and was cancelled."

My app only uses task queue when a request is about to time out, so I
guess task queue may not be the source of the problem.

The funny thing is I'm paying for this service interruption that most
likely I'm not responsible for. In the past 9 hours, the usage of
frontend instance hours is 266, while normally it would be 60 ~ 70.

Regards,

Will

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:01 AM, Junyu Chen  wrote:
> The API call taskqueue.BulkAdd() took too long to respond and was cancelled.
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
> line 1511, in __call__
> rv = self.handle_exception(request, response, e)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
> line 1505, in __call__
> rv = self.router.dispatch(request, response)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
> line 1253, in default_dispatcher
> return route.handler_adapter(request, response)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
> line 1077, in __call__
> return handler.dispatch()
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
> line 547, in dispatch
> return self.handle_exception(e, self.app.debug)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/third_party/webapp2-2.3/webapp2.py",
> line 545, in dispatch
> return method(*args, **kwargs)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py",
> line 717, in add
> return Queue(queue_name).add(self, transactional=transactional)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py",
> line 803, in add
> self.__AddTasks(tasks, transactional)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/labs/taskqueue/taskqueue.py",
> line 834, in __AddTasks
> apiproxy_stub_map.MakeSyncCall('taskqueue', 'BulkAdd', request,
> response)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/apiproxy_stub_map.py",
> line 94, in MakeSyncCall
> return stubmap.MakeSyncCall(service, call, request, response)
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/apiproxy_stub_map.py",
> line 308, in MakeSyncCall
> rpc.CheckSuccess()
>   File
> "/base/python27_runtime/python27_lib/versions/1/google/appengine/api/apiproxy_rpc.py",
> line 133, in CheckSuccess
> raise self.exception
> DeadlineExceededError: The API call taskqueue.BulkAdd() took too long to
> respond and was cancelled.
>
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[google-appengine] What titles "Developer Programs Engineer" and "Developer Advocate" stand for?

[Andrius A]

I see some posts occasionally by GAE team and noticed two different job
titles as "Developer Programs Engineer" and "Developer Advocate".
Does anyone knows what they stand for and what is the difference?

The reason I am asking is to find out are there any dedicated people to
work with community and help solving problems?
or is it volunteering work for GAE team who has time and wants to help?

Thank you,
Andrius

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[google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Andrius A]

As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
startups.

What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and open
a single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
our issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
forward.

Let me know who is up for it?!

Regards,
Andrius

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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Will]

I'm interested. But the first question is if it complies with the premier
account user agreement...

Best,

Will

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
> As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
> questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
> startups.
> What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
open a
> single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have our
> issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
> forward.
> Let me know who is up for it?!
> Regards,
> Andrius
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Andrius A]

It think it should work if we create a single organization. What are your
thoughts?
Would be nice to have a comment from GAE team.

On 21 November 2011 17:08, Will  wrote:

> I'm interested. But the first question is if it complies with the premier
> account user agreement...
>
> Best,
>
> Will
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
> > startups.
> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
> open a
> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
> our
> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
> > forward.
> > Let me know who is up for it?!
> > Regards,
> > Andrius
> >
> > --
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> >
>
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Barry Hunter]

I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
under the same 'Google Apps Account'

There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
'system'

All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
developers.

Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'

... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A  wrote:
> As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
> questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
> startups.
> What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and open a
> single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have our
> issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
> forward.
> Let me know who is up for it?!
> Regards,
> Andrius
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Will]

What Barry said are my concerns, too.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:11 AM, Andrius A  wrote:

> It think it should work if we create a single organization. What are your
> thoughts?
> Would be nice to have a comment from GAE team.
>
>
> On 21 November 2011 17:08, Will  wrote:
>
>> I'm interested. But the first question is if it complies with the premier
>> account user agreement...
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:04 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
>> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
>> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
>> > startups.
>> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
>> open a
>> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
>> our
>> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
>> > forward.
>> > Let me know who is up for it?!
>> > Regards,
>> > Andrius
>> >
>> > --
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>> Groups
>> > "Google App Engine" group.
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>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>> >
>>
>>
>>
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[google-appengine] Re: Why is the Email Service so unreliable

[Tapir]

Hi PK,
how you know the service only sends  about 100-500 e-mails per day.
and how do you know if your customers have received your mails or not?

On Nov 22, 12:33 am, PK  wrote:
> I want to add my experience here which happens to be positive. I have been
> finding the e-mail service very reliable. A couple of data points:
>
> 1. I use python.
> 2. With the current load, the service only sends  about 100-500 e-mails per
> day, often in batches of 50-100.
>
> With this configuration I have had very happy customers for a couple of
> years now. In fact, everybody assumes that e-mails will be delivered
> instantaneously, so the only one time that e-mails were queued for several
> hours we all panicked...
>
> Having said that, some more visibility on where the e-mails are before they
> leave the Google infrastructure would be welcome for the rare cases when
> the customer calls and says: "my e-mails were not received".
>
> PKhttp://www.gae123.com

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[google-appengine] How do you know if your Frontend Instance Hours are 'normal'?

[Aaron Hildebrandt]

I have a site on GAE that is mostly just serving a small website that has 
all the HTML in Memcache (but even when it's not, the site is extremely 
light to rerender). I get 4k to 6k hits a day.

My daily frontend instance hours hovers between 30 and 60. Also, around ten 
times a day, I get the following message in my logs: This request caused a 
new process to be started for your application, and thus caused your 
application code to be loaded for the first time. This request may thus 
take longer and use more CPU than a typical request for your application.

Does this seem right for such a simple site? I would have thought that 
having all the HTML in Memcache would have kept my instance hours much 
smaller than that, and starting new instances ten times a day seems like 
overkill. But I really have no idea -- there seems to be a lack of tools 
that actually narrow down what's causing spikes in instance hours or 
instances.

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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Andrius A]

hosting applications under premier account for are big community would not
work, as it would be difficult to calculate the usage separtly, but I am
thinking more about getting various issues resolved and questions answered.
we could have a small organization and use premier account for education
and testing our apps and limit it to 20-30 members? so we could all have a
copy of our application running and use it for support?

On 21 November 2011 17:16, Barry Hunter  wrote:

> I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
> under the same 'Google Apps Account'
>
> There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
> point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
> 'system'
>
> All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
> would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
> developers.
>
> Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
> per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'
>
> ... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
> unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A  wrote:
> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
> > startups.
> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
> open a
> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
> our
> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
> > forward.
> > Let me know who is up for it?!
> > Regards,
> > Andrius
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Google App Engine" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> >
>
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[google-appengine] Re: What happened to the promise of tagging reported bugs within a week?

[WallyDD]

Try years in some cases.

On Nov 21, 11:49 am, Rick Mangi  wrote:
> Couldn't agree more. Bugs should be responded to in days or hours, not
> weeks.
>
> On Nov 21, 7:13 am, pdknsk  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The correct link to the announcement by Google.
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine/msg/1cfb04d97d6634ac

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[google-appengine] Re: Want my money back, What should I do?

[reco]

hi brandon,

we are on app engine since day one. its a really nice platform even
though we had a lot of issues through out the past with outages and
and the apps not behaving as they should.

I understand that you guys need to make money with this platform. I
think this is great. Actually i love you guys to make money so there
will be future enhancements, fixes, 

the issue we see though atm its that you are forcing us to fast to
move on. running an app on 2.5 even on HR is from business standpoints
not worth what you are charting for. i am sure things will change with
python 2.7 and multithreading. the SDK to work on this is out there
since around 2 weeks. we are in the process of moving to a
multithreaded version of our app which will hopefully result in less
instances used.

i suggest that you guys should expand the 50% discount for another 2-3
months. dec 1st is just to early.

you get this from a very happy GAE developer.

best,
christof

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[google-appengine] Re: Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[zdravko]

I have an idea, please read on ;)

This idea more than illustrates there being a hole in GAE's support of
the little guy.  It also points to a possible solution that GAE team
should consider and adopt. What GAE could and should consider is some
form of pooled support for small groups of small users - where the
group itself acts as first support line for filtering out the noise,
such that real issues is what gets to the GAE team.  Since even the
GAE team claims that the fee is to cover the costs, there is still
likely the problem of valuable and limited GAE resources being wasted
by support subscribers because they can afford to and not because
their issues are the ones that best utilize those precious GAE
resources.  In that sense, requestes from a well filtered source
should be handled free, without any charges - sort of like they are
handled on this group.  Just imagine if this group managed to organize
itself better and where it passed onto GAE team only those requests
that it could not answer within the group.  Imagine how more
productive and how more valuable the whole experience would be.


On Nov 21, 12:27 pm, Andrius A  wrote:
> hosting applications under premier account for are big community would not
> work, as it would be difficult to calculate the usage separtly, but I am
> thinking more about getting various issues resolved and questions answered.
> we could have a small organization and use premier account for education
> and testing our apps and limit it to 20-30 members? so we could all have a
> copy of our application running and use it for support?
>
> On 21 November 2011 17:16, Barry Hunter  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
> > under the same 'Google Apps Account'
>
> > There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
> > point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
> > 'system'
>
> > All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
> > would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
> > developers.
>
> > Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
> > per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'
>
> > ... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
> > unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.
>
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A  wrote:
> > > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
> > > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
> > > startups.
> > > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
> > open a
> > > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
> > our
> > > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
> > > forward.
> > > Let me know who is up for it?!
> > > Regards,
> > > Andrius
>
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > > "Google App Engine" group.
> > > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> > >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
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Re: [google-appengine] What titles "Developer Programs Engineer" and "Developer Advocate" stand for?

[TreKing]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Andrius A  wrote:

> Does anyone knows what they stand for and what is the difference?


Two second Google search for either title leads to this:
https://sites.google.com/site/googdevreljobs/

-
TreKing  - Chicago
transit tracking app for Android-powered devices

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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Gregory D'alesandre]

In order to get a premier account you'll need to go through a corporate
credit check (due to being billed offline rather than having a credit card
verified) which means you need to be an incorporated entity.  This is
likely the biggest issue you'll run into as I'm not sure how many people
are willing to form a new company (including absorbing the liability behind
it).  Having people outside an existing company asking questions through a
single support account would be consider an abuse.  If you are truly
interested in exploring this (as in you are ready to incorporate) let me
know and I can work with the legal team to determine if we see any issue
with it.

Greg

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andrius A  wrote:

> hosting applications under premier account for are big community would not
> work, as it would be difficult to calculate the usage separtly, but I am
> thinking more about getting various issues resolved and questions answered.
> we could have a small organization and use premier account for education
> and testing our apps and limit it to 20-30 members? so we could all have a
> copy of our application running and use it for support?
>
> On 21 November 2011 17:16, Barry Hunter  wrote:
>
>> I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
>> under the same 'Google Apps Account'
>>
>> There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
>> point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
>> 'system'
>>
>> All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
>> would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
>> developers.
>>
>> Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
>> per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'
>>
>> ... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
>> unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A  wrote:
>> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
>> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
>> > startups.
>> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
>> open a
>> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
>> our
>> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
>> > forward.
>> > Let me know who is up for it?!
>> > Regards,
>> > Andrius
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > "Google App Engine" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>> >
>>
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>>
>>
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[google-appengine] Re: Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[zdravko]

Greg, can you also work with your bean counting team to determine the
added value of GAE user groups acting as their own first support line
and then passing onto GAE team just the real issues that to some
extent GAE should pay to be informed about in the most concise
possible way.  Ask them what they think should be charged to support
such small groups of say up to 100 small users ?

On Nov 21, 12:57 pm, "Gregory D'alesandre"  wrote:
> In order to get a premier account you'll need to go through a corporate
> credit check (due to being billed offline rather than having a credit card
> verified) which means you need to be an incorporated entity.  This is
> likely the biggest issue you'll run into as I'm not sure how many people
> are willing to form a new company (including absorbing the liability behind
> it).  Having people outside an existing company asking questions through a
> single support account would be consider an abuse.  If you are truly
> interested in exploring this (as in you are ready to incorporate) let me
> know and I can work with the legal team to determine if we see any issue
> with it.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
> > hosting applications under premier account for are big community would not
> > work, as it would be difficult to calculate the usage separtly, but I am
> > thinking more about getting various issues resolved and questions answered.
> > we could have a small organization and use premier account for education
> > and testing our apps and limit it to 20-30 members? so we could all have a
> > copy of our application running and use it for support?
>
> > On 21 November 2011 17:16, Barry Hunter  wrote:
>
> >> I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
> >> under the same 'Google Apps Account'
>
> >> There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
> >> point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
> >> 'system'
>
> >> All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
> >> would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
> >> developers.
>
> >> Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
> >> per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'
>
> >> ... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
> >> unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.
>
> >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A  wrote:
> >> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and unanswered
> >> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
> >> > startups.
> >> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
> >> open a
> >> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
> >> our
> >> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
> >> > forward.
> >> > Let me know who is up for it?!
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Andrius
>
> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups
> >> > "Google App Engine" group.
> >> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> > For more options, visit this group at
> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
> >> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Andrius A]

Thank you Greg for commenting. Actually in previous reply user zdravko
better than me explained the problem we all are having. Do you think you
could talk with your other teams and advocates and come back with the
solution to support little guys?
I will still think about about forming a company/organization.
On Nov 21, 2011 5:57 PM, "Gregory D'alesandre" 
wrote:

> In order to get a premier account you'll need to go through a corporate
> credit check (due to being billed offline rather than having a credit card
> verified) which means you need to be an incorporated entity.  This is
> likely the biggest issue you'll run into as I'm not sure how many people
> are willing to form a new company (including absorbing the liability behind
> it).  Having people outside an existing company asking questions through a
> single support account would be consider an abuse.  If you are truly
> interested in exploring this (as in you are ready to incorporate) let me
> know and I can work with the legal team to determine if we see any issue
> with it.
>
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
>
>> hosting applications under premier account for are big community would
>> not work, as it would be difficult to calculate the usage separtly, but I
>> am thinking more about getting various issues resolved and questions
>> answered.
>> we could have a small organization and use premier account for education
>> and testing our apps and limit it to 20-30 members? so we could all have a
>> copy of our application running and use it for support?
>>
>> On 21 November 2011 17:16, Barry Hunter  wrote:
>>
>>> I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
>>> under the same 'Google Apps Account'
>>>
>>> There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
>>> point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
>>> 'system'
>>>
>>> All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
>>> would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
>>> developers.
>>>
>>> Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
>>> per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'
>>>
>>> ... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
>>> unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A  wrote:
>>> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and
>>> unanswered
>>> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
>>> > startups.
>>> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization and
>>> open a
>>> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and have
>>> our
>>> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
>>> > forward.
>>> > Let me know who is up for it?!
>>> > Regards,
>>> > Andrius
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> > "Google App Engine" group.
>>> > To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com
>>> .
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> > google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>> > http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Timofey Koolin]

Backend can work with big uptime, but without gurantee stable durability -
it can be restart from time to time + you must pay for full-day backend
usage - from $1.2 per day for smallest backend class.

2011/11/21 Deepak Singh 

> ok. So if i fetch these 6500 entities through a backend and set them to
> cache for 8 days, will there be durability for 8 days?
>
> My app is low trafffic app and there might be time period when there is no
> traffic to site setting instances to 0 for that time period.
>
> Thanks
> Deepak
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:20 PM, Jeff Schnitzer wrote:
>
>> Memcache doesn't work that way.  You don't get any guaranteed quantity of
>> cache and it's not guaranteed to last for any specific length of time -
>> memcache is a shared resource and google allocates it according to their
>> own magic algorithms.
>>
>> Data falling out of the cache every 4-5 hours?  That doesn't sound like a
>> problem to me.  If you have cache data that needs predictable durability,
>> consider a backend.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Deepak Singh 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My application while on loading makes a read operation around 6500 rows
>>> which is fixed for app. I have set memcache for this feature with cache
>>> expiration to 8 days. Bu i observe that cache usually fails 5 to 6 times in
>>> day, so in that case my app has datastore read of around 6500 rows. Thus my
>>> app heavily uses datastore read quota whic is very costly to me.
>>>
>>> I have been unable to make cache available for 8 days or even working
>>> properly.
>>>
>>> It would be great if you can let me know how to optmize this cache
>>> properly.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Deepak
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:
>>>
 Memcache is just a cache. Your values have no guarantee of being there
 even
 1micro second after you did the write.

 If you post your code we might be able to help, but I assure you
 Memcache
 does work.

 My app does reads from the datastore or memcache for every request,
 sometimes to for initialization of variables... like Who am I, Why am I
 here, what configuration am I in.   And then to serve the request...

 We use a combination of instance memory and memcache to not have to
 talk to
 the data store. Datastore reads are "slow" compared to Instance Memory
 and
 Memcache.

 Datastore Write Operations   0.24 Million Ops0.19
 $1.00/ Million Ops   $0.19
 Datastore Read Operations0.02 Million Ops0.00
 $0.70/ Million Ops   $0.00


 I didn't count the "reads in my app" to the "writes" but I know I do
 reads
 for initialization every time, and reads for data every time.  I only do
 writes on some requests...   So I am going to be conservative and say
 that I
 do 3x as many reads as writes in my code, but so far today I have hit
 the
 Datastore with a write 10x as many times as I have a read.  That works
 out
 to my local memory and memcache saving me 97% of the time.

 I don't have an easy way to tell you how much of the time that is
 instance
 memory and how many times it is memcache, but I assure you it works.



 -Original Message-
 From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
 [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamil Rzayev
 Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:48 PM
 To: Google App Engine
 Subject: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

 Hi.

 I have to use memcache to store some values frequently accessible by
 application I am working on.
 The Google App Engine Memcache doesn't work as it apparently removes
 values
 after a couple of minutes I store it at memcache.

 I really need any idea and would highly appreciate for any comments.
 I have already tried to ask here, but got response that I need to store
 values as soon as I read them and didn't work.

 I am still losing my values...

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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Deepak Singh
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received 

Re: [google-appengine] How do you know if your Frontend Instance Hours are 'normal'?

[Timofey Koolin]

I think it may be memory leak - and instance restart after usage all
available memory.

2011/11/21 Aaron Hildebrandt 

> I have a site on GAE that is mostly just serving a small website that has
> all the HTML in Memcache (but even when it's not, the site is extremely
> light to rerender). I get 4k to 6k hits a day.
>
> My daily frontend instance hours hovers between 30 and 60. Also, around
> ten times a day, I get the following message in my logs: This request
> caused a new process to be started for your application, and thus caused
> your application code to be loaded for the first time. This request may
> thus take longer and use more CPU than a typical request for your
> application.
>
> Does this seem right for such a simple site? I would have thought that
> having all the HTML in Memcache would have kept my instance hours much
> smaller than that, and starting new instances ten times a day seems like
> overkill. But I really have no idea -- there seems to be a lack of tools
> that actually narrow down what's causing spikes in instance hours or
> instances.
>
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[google-appengine] Instances - How do they work?

[WallyDD]

I am little confused with how these instances work.

How long does an instance stay alive?
A site in Python 2.5 (M/S) fires up an instance when it is accessed
and the instance stays alive for minutes after.
With Python 2.7(HRD) the instance is killed off after a matter of
seconds. So I either have to pay and keep the application alive but
then it gets tricky.
And to add insult to injury, if I access a python 2.7 application and
get one page, the instance lasts for a few seconds but I am billed for
15 minutes. If I am billed for 15 minutes please would it be possible
for the instance to stay alive for something close to 15 minutes?

Now if I enable billing (for the cost of $2.10 a week).
I can adjust the sliders under application settings, I have two
settings "Idle instances" and "Pending latency".

Leaving "Idle instances" at Automatic results in instances only
lasting a few seconds. Setting it to 1 results in having a "Resident"
instance and this sort of works. I can use the application a little
but then a second instance fires up and leaves one instance completely
idle. All I want is one instance running. I put "Pending Latency" up
to 500ms to try and stop other instances firing up.

I use the application and so now I have two instances serving, The
resident instance is sitting there doing nothing and I am using
another instance but being billed for both.
So I go an play with the sliders and set idle instances to automatic
and it kills one off (the resident one that was doing nothing). But
then the instances start with their stop start routine and the
application is very unresponsive.

Is there a bug with the instancing or is there something that I really
don't understand here.

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Gregory D'alesandre]

This group and stackoverflow are essentially the solution you are referring
to.  There are a number of people in the group that respond to the majority
of questions and when something seems like it is a true issue someone from
the App Engine team starts looking into it.  The main difference between
this forum and premier support is that there is no guaranteed response
time.  That's the basic idea of course but it sounds like you don't feel
like it is working.  How would you envision it working differently/better
than this group does?

Thanks,

Greg

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:03 AM, zdravko  wrote:

> Greg, can you also work with your bean counting team to determine the
> added value of GAE user groups acting as their own first support line
> and then passing onto GAE team just the real issues that to some
> extent GAE should pay to be informed about in the most concise
> possible way.  Ask them what they think should be charged to support
> such small groups of say up to 100 small users ?
>
> On Nov 21, 12:57 pm, "Gregory D'alesandre"  wrote:
> > In order to get a premier account you'll need to go through a corporate
> > credit check (due to being billed offline rather than having a credit
> card
> > verified) which means you need to be an incorporated entity.  This is
> > likely the biggest issue you'll run into as I'm not sure how many people
> > are willing to form a new company (including absorbing the liability
> behind
> > it).  Having people outside an existing company asking questions through
> a
> > single support account would be consider an abuse.  If you are truly
> > interested in exploring this (as in you are ready to incorporate) let me
> > know and I can work with the legal team to determine if we see any issue
> > with it.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
> > > hosting applications under premier account for are big community would
> not
> > > work, as it would be difficult to calculate the usage separtly, but I
> am
> > > thinking more about getting various issues resolved and questions
> answered.
> > > we could have a small organization and use premier account for
> education
> > > and testing our apps and limit it to 20-30 members? so we could all
> have a
> > > copy of our application running and use it for support?
> >
> > > On 21 November 2011 17:16, Barry Hunter 
> wrote:
> >
> > >> I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
> > >> under the same 'Google Apps Account'
> >
> > >> There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
> > >> point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
> > >> 'system'
> >
> > >> All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
> > >> would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
> > >> developers.
> >
> > >> Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
> > >> per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'
> >
> > >> ... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
> > >> unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.
> >
> > >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A 
> wrote:
> > >> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and
> unanswered
> > >> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers or
> > >> > startups.
> > >> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization
> and
> > >> open a
> > >> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and
> have
> > >> our
> > >> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push things
> > >> > forward.
> > >> > Let me know who is up for it?!
> > >> > Regards,
> > >> > Andrius
> >
> > >> > --
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> > >> > "Google App Engine" group.
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> > >> >http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
> >
> > >> --
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> >
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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[de Witte]

What about a ticket system with premier support. I would pay 200$ if an 
issue needs to be solved per direct.

For example, two months ago, we had a stuck index and had to wait 2 days 
before it was solved. 

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Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Kaan Soral]

Thanks for your support Andrius, christof

- And Brandon

You really make no sense to me,
Let me try to explain you the situation with a similar analogy:

Burger King decides to roll out a Frequent Eaters Card (will be referred to 
as FEC from now on).
I get a FEC to pay at least %50 less when I eat at Burger King
But Burger King's FEC system doesn't function, they tell me that a problem 
occurred and they can't issue my FEC, but I am a Burger King addict, and 
despite the FEC problem, I still keep on eating at Burger King for days.

So FEC is Python 2.7 here. I got it, but it doesn't work.

Should Burger King cover my losses?


To give a real life example, above scenario happens a lot on supermarkets 
here in Turkey, they keep rolling out promotions, but at the check out, 
they almost never get recognized, I am sure this is a marketing strategy, 
since a lot of people are careless, they probably earn a lot malfunctioning 
so, but they ALWAYS cover your losses when you ask them

I am not saying Appengine is malfunctioning on purpose, I know that there 
are problems, and they are trying very hard to fix them, but I am just 
hoping they would cover our losses

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RE: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Brandon Wirtz]

I run 2.7 Have for weeks. But from where I am sitting you had the option to
eat somewhere else.  If you had reached out to Google and said "Hey, I want
to stick with GAE but you have to fix these things if you want more money",
and they had agreed that would be one thing.  But you instead are in the
dine an dash scenario. I at this food, and now I want a refund because it
cost more than I wanted it to.

 

They gave you a tool to tell you how much the new costs would be long in
advance.  They gave you slider nobs so that if you wanted to lower your
performance you could keep the pricing you used to have. 

 

If your cost went up it is because you didn't gimp your performance.  Is it
shitty that things cost more?  Yes. Is it Google's fault you didn't turn the
sliders, bail, or implement fixes to reduce costs? No.

 

I on the other hand:

Saved 20% by implementing 2.7 for concurrency.

(I do not use thread safe) 

 

Saved 25% by Fixing my cache headers (with minimal documentation on how to
do so)

 

And as a result the costs are not significantly higher on Release than they
were on pre-release.

My bill is higher because I merged most of my apps in to one mult-tenant app
so a bunch of 28 hours of instances stopped being free.. 

 

But yeah, you are wining (one N not two).  If you get the 90 day notice that
your rent is going to increase, vacate or don't complain when your bill is
higher.  

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaan Soral
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:21 AM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

 

Thanks for your support Andrius, christof

- And Brandon

You really make no sense to me,
Let me try to explain you the situation with a similar analogy:

Burger King decides to roll out a Frequent Eaters Card (will be referred to
as FEC from now on).
I get a FEC to pay at least %50 less when I eat at Burger King
But Burger King's FEC system doesn't function, they tell me that a problem
occurred and they can't issue my FEC, but I am a Burger King addict, and
despite the FEC problem, I still keep on eating at Burger King for days.

So FEC is Python 2.7 here. I got it, but it doesn't work.

Should Burger King cover my losses?


To give a real life example, above scenario happens a lot on supermarkets
here in Turkey, they keep rolling out promotions, but at the check out, they
almost never get recognized, I am sure this is a marketing strategy, since a
lot of people are careless, they probably earn a lot malfunctioning so, but
they ALWAYS cover your losses when you ask them

I am not saying Appengine is malfunctioning on purpose, I know that there
are problems, and they are trying very hard to fix them, but I am just
hoping they would cover our losses

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RE: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Brandon Wirtz]

If you are reading 6500 rows every request you are doing something wrong.
Why would you possibly need that much data?

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Deepak Singh
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 6:59 AM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

 

My application while on loading makes a read operation around 6500 rows
which is fixed for app. I have set memcache for this feature with cache
expiration to 8 days. Bu i observe that cache usually fails 5 to 6 times in
day, so in that case my app has datastore read of around 6500 rows. Thus my
app heavily uses datastore read quota whic is very costly to me.

 

I have been unable to make cache available for 8 days or even working
properly.

 

It would be great if you can let me know how to optmize this cache properly.

 

Thanks

Deepak

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

Memcache is just a cache. Your values have no guarantee of being there even
1micro second after you did the write.

If you post your code we might be able to help, but I assure you Memcache
does work.

My app does reads from the datastore or memcache for every request,
sometimes to for initialization of variables... like Who am I, Why am I
here, what configuration am I in.   And then to serve the request...

We use a combination of instance memory and memcache to not have to talk to
the data store. Datastore reads are "slow" compared to Instance Memory and
Memcache.

Datastore Write Operations   0.24 Million Ops0.19
$1.00/ Million Ops   $0.19
Datastore Read Operations0.02 Million Ops0.00
$0.70/ Million Ops   $0.00


I didn't count the "reads in my app" to the "writes" but I know I do reads
for initialization every time, and reads for data every time.  I only do
writes on some requests...   So I am going to be conservative and say that I
do 3x as many reads as writes in my code, but so far today I have hit the
Datastore with a write 10x as many times as I have a read.  That works out
to my local memory and memcache saving me 97% of the time.

I don't have an easy way to tell you how much of the time that is instance
memory and how many times it is memcache, but I assure you it works.



-Original Message-
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamil Rzayev
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:48 PM
To: Google App Engine
Subject: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work


Hi.

I have to use memcache to store some values frequently accessible by
application I am working on.
The Google App Engine Memcache doesn't work as it apparently removes values
after a couple of minutes I store it at memcache.

I really need any idea and would highly appreciate for any comments.
I have already tried to ask here, but got response that I need to store
values as soon as I read them and didn't work.

I am still losing my values...

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 .
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-- 
Deepak Singh

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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Deepak Singh]

The reason for reading is, they are the city names in INDIA and i need to
display all the city names for each client.
each entity has only two properties -cityname, cityid - but there are 6500
entities.

i am not able to find any solution for this situation.

What i am planning to do is,

Read them once and put in an Arraylist object and share this object
everywhere. But how can i create one such arraylist object which lives
forever and can be shared across all instances.

Pls suggest.

Thanks
Deepak



On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> If you are reading 6500 rows every request you are doing something wrong.
> Why would you possibly need that much data?
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Deepak Singh
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 6:59 AM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work
>
> ** **
>
> My application while on loading makes a read operation around 6500 rows
> which is fixed for app. I have set memcache for this feature with cache
> expiration to 8 days. Bu i observe that cache usually fails 5 to 6 times in
> day, so in that case my app has datastore read of around 6500 rows. Thus my
> app heavily uses datastore read quota whic is very costly to me.
>
> ** **
>
> I have been unable to make cache available for 8 days or even working
> properly.
>
> ** **
>
> It would be great if you can let me know how to optmize this cache
> properly.
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks
>
> Deepak
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Brandon Wirtz 
> wrote:
>
> Memcache is just a cache. Your values have no guarantee of being there even
> 1micro second after you did the write.
>
> If you post your code we might be able to help, but I assure you Memcache
> does work.
>
> My app does reads from the datastore or memcache for every request,
> sometimes to for initialization of variables... like Who am I, Why am I
> here, what configuration am I in.   And then to serve the request...
>
> We use a combination of instance memory and memcache to not have to talk to
> the data store. Datastore reads are "slow" compared to Instance Memory and
> Memcache.
>
> Datastore Write Operations   0.24 Million Ops0.19
> $1.00/ Million Ops   $0.19
> Datastore Read Operations0.02 Million Ops0.00
> $0.70/ Million Ops   $0.00
>
>
> I didn't count the "reads in my app" to the "writes" but I know I do reads
> for initialization every time, and reads for data every time.  I only do
> writes on some requests...   So I am going to be conservative and say that
> I
> do 3x as many reads as writes in my code, but so far today I have hit the
> Datastore with a write 10x as many times as I have a read.  That works out
> to my local memory and memcache saving me 97% of the time.
>
> I don't have an easy way to tell you how much of the time that is instance
> memory and how many times it is memcache, but I assure you it works.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamil Rzayev
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:48 PM
> To: Google App Engine
> Subject: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work
>
>
> Hi.
>
> I have to use memcache to store some values frequently accessible by
> application I am working on.
> The Google App Engine Memcache doesn't work as it apparently removes values
> after a couple of minutes I store it at memcache.
>
> I really need any idea and would highly appreciate for any comments.
> I have already tried to ask here, but got response that I need to store
> values as soon as I read them and didn't work.
>
> I am still losing my values...
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
>
> --
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> For more options, visit this group at
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>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Deepak Singh
>
> --
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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Simon Knott]

Why don't you store this data in a single entity,  as serialised data?  If the 
data expires from the cache, you then only have a single entity read...

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RE: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Brandon Wirtz]

They never change then.

 

Put the array hard coded in to your code.

 

$MyCities = array('Dehli','New York','Austing');

 

Fine that is php code and only one of those is in India. But you get the
idea.  No  reason to use data store for that.

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Deepak Singh
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:50 AM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

 

The reason for reading is, they are the city names in INDIA and i need to
display all the city names for each client. 

each entity has only two properties -cityname, cityid - but there are 6500
entities.

 

i am not able to find any solution for this situation.

 

What i am planning to do is,

 

Read them once and put in an Arraylist object and share this object
everywhere. But how can i create one such arraylist object which lives
forever and can be shared across all instances.

 

Pls suggest.

 

Thanks

Deepak

 

 

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:09 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

If you are reading 6500 rows every request you are doing something wrong.
Why would you possibly need that much data?

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Deepak Singh
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 6:59 AM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

 

My application while on loading makes a read operation around 6500 rows
which is fixed for app. I have set memcache for this feature with cache
expiration to 8 days. Bu i observe that cache usually fails 5 to 6 times in
day, so in that case my app has datastore read of around 6500 rows. Thus my
app heavily uses datastore read quota whic is very costly to me.

 

I have been unable to make cache available for 8 days or even working
properly.

 

It would be great if you can let me know how to optmize this cache properly.

 

Thanks

Deepak

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:14 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

Memcache is just a cache. Your values have no guarantee of being there even
1micro second after you did the write.

If you post your code we might be able to help, but I assure you Memcache
does work.

My app does reads from the datastore or memcache for every request,
sometimes to for initialization of variables... like Who am I, Why am I
here, what configuration am I in.   And then to serve the request...

We use a combination of instance memory and memcache to not have to talk to
the data store. Datastore reads are "slow" compared to Instance Memory and
Memcache.

Datastore Write Operations   0.24 Million Ops0.19
$1.00/ Million Ops   $0.19
Datastore Read Operations0.02 Million Ops0.00
$0.70/ Million Ops   $0.00


I didn't count the "reads in my app" to the "writes" but I know I do reads
for initialization every time, and reads for data every time.  I only do
writes on some requests...   So I am going to be conservative and say that I
do 3x as many reads as writes in my code, but so far today I have hit the
Datastore with a write 10x as many times as I have a read.  That works out
to my local memory and memcache saving me 97% of the time.

I don't have an easy way to tell you how much of the time that is instance
memory and how many times it is memcache, but I assure you it works.



-Original Message-
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jamil Rzayev
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 1:48 PM
To: Google App Engine
Subject: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work


Hi.

I have to use memcache to store some values frequently accessible by
application I am working on.
The Google App Engine Memcache doesn't work as it apparently removes values
after a couple of minutes I store it at memcache.

I really need any idea and would highly appreciate for any comments.
I have already tried to ask here, but got response that I need to store
values as soon as I read them and didn't work.

I am still losing my values...

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Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Kaan Soral]

I got the thread safe too, also my app was highly optimized since the 
beginning, all those performance improvements tips were just confirmations 
for me

I don't get your attitude

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RE: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Simon Knott]

Ha. Yes, Brandon's idea is better.  Need caffeine...

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Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Andrius A]

Brandon, your cheap food example here does not make any sense here.
Problems we are having here that we are paying for the services which do
not fully work. I am using GAE since early days and was happy with the
issues before because they didn't cost me a lot. Now GAE came out of the
preview release with drastically increased prices and the features they
advertise do not fully work, for example: backends SDK broken, backends do
not suppor channels API, all my backends stop working 2-3 times per day,
time to time frontends fail to load throwing deadline exceeded errors, time
to time requests to frontends take 10 times longer even (processing time is
as usual), enabling multi threading with python 2.7 makes things even
worse. I am disappointed because I spent nights trying to adapt changes for
new billing method later to find out that those new features do not
actually work!

On 21 November 2011 19:37, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> I run 2.7 Have for weeks. But from where I am sitting you had the option
> to eat somewhere else.  If you had reached out to Google and said “Hey, I
> want to stick with GAE but you have to fix these things if you want more
> money”, and they had agreed that would be one thing.  But you instead are
> in the dine an dash scenario. I at this food, and now I want a refund
> because it cost more than I wanted it to.
>
> ** **
>
> They gave you a tool to tell you how much the new costs would be long in
> advance.  They gave you slider nobs so that if you wanted to lower your
> performance you could keep the pricing you used to have. 
>
> ** **
>
> If your cost went up it is because you didn’t gimp your performance.  Is
> it shitty that things cost more?  Yes. Is it Google’s fault you didn’t turn
> the sliders, bail, or implement fixes to reduce costs? No.
>
> ** **
>
> I on the other hand:
>
> Saved 20% by implementing 2.7 for concurrency.
>
> (I do not use thread safe) 
>
> ** **
>
> Saved 25% by Fixing my cache headers (with minimal documentation on how to
> do so)
>
> ** **
>
> And as a result the costs are not significantly higher on Release than
> they were on pre-release.
>
> My bill is higher because I merged most of my apps in to one mult-tenant
> app so a bunch of 28 hours of instances stopped being free…. 
>
> ** **
>
> But yeah, you are wining (one N not two).  If you get the 90 day notice
> that your rent is going to increase, vacate or don’t complain when your
> bill is higher.  
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Kaan Soral
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 11:21 AM
>
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for your support Andrius, christof
>
>
> - And Brandon
>
> You really make no sense to me,
> Let me try to explain you the situation with a similar analogy:
>
> Burger King decides to roll out a Frequent Eaters Card (will be referred
> to as FEC from now on).
> I get a FEC to pay at least %50 less when I eat at Burger King
> But Burger King's FEC system doesn't function, they tell me that a problem
> occurred and they can't issue my FEC, but I am a Burger King addict, and
> despite the FEC problem, I still keep on eating at Burger King for days.
>
> So FEC is Python 2.7 here. I got it, but it doesn't work.
>
> Should Burger King cover my losses?
> 
>
> To give a real life example, above scenario happens a lot on supermarkets
> here in Turkey, they keep rolling out promotions, but at the check out,
> they almost never get recognized, I am sure this is a marketing strategy,
> since a lot of people are careless, they probably earn a lot malfunctioning
> so, but they ALWAYS cover your losses when you ask them
>
> I am not saying Appengine is malfunctioning on purpose, I know that there
> are problems, and they are trying very hard to fix them, but I am just
> hoping they would cover our losses
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/UdWC-vHMDR0J.
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>

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"Goog

RE: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Brandon Wirtz]

Fine. Post your problems and get them fixed, don't complain that you used
services you don't want to pay for.

 

Yes 2.7 frontends take longer to load. Reduce the number of imports, and
create a warm up script that only does the bare minimum, (doesn't handle a
request just says "hello I'm up with all the imports")

 

Backends don't support Channels because they aren't Front ends. Backends are
designed for talking to front ends only, channels are designed to talk to
users. Ergo no channels on the back ends.

 

BackEnd SDK broken is too nebulous can't help you.

 

2.7 Thread Safe works it is just a PITA to implement, so stick to 2.7 with
thread safe off you get concurrency, and doesn't require any code changes.

 

Without code can't help you on the 10x as long as usual.  Likely based on
the things you have said, those are also user error.  

 

GAE is not like hosting on a physical machine, or like using Amazon.  There
are lots of very strict rules for development. If you break those rules your
code won't scale, you will spend a fortune, and badness will ensue.

 

You keep saying my cheap food example doesn't apply, but you keep making it
complicated.  You either used the service and owe money. Or you didn't and
don't.

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrius A
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:11 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

 

Brandon, your cheap food example here does not make any sense here. Problems
we are having here that we are paying for the services which do not fully
work. I am using GAE since early days and was happy with the issues before
because they didn't cost me a lot. Now GAE came out of the preview release
with drastically increased prices and the features they advertise do not
fully work, for example: backends SDK broken, backends do not suppor
channels API, all my backends stop working 2-3 times per day, time to time
frontends fail to load throwing deadline exceeded errors, time to time
requests to frontends take 10 times longer even (processing time is as
usual), enabling multi threading with python 2.7 makes things even worse. I
am disappointed because I spent nights trying to adapt changes for new
billing method later to find out that those new features do not actually
work!

 

On 21 November 2011 19:37, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

I run 2.7 Have for weeks. But from where I am sitting you had the option to
eat somewhere else.  If you had reached out to Google and said "Hey, I want
to stick with GAE but you have to fix these things if you want more money",
and they had agreed that would be one thing.  But you instead are in the
dine an dash scenario. I at this food, and now I want a refund because it
cost more than I wanted it to.

 

They gave you a tool to tell you how much the new costs would be long in
advance.  They gave you slider nobs so that if you wanted to lower your
performance you could keep the pricing you used to have. 

 

If your cost went up it is because you didn't gimp your performance.  Is it
shitty that things cost more?  Yes. Is it Google's fault you didn't turn the
sliders, bail, or implement fixes to reduce costs? No.

 

I on the other hand:

Saved 20% by implementing 2.7 for concurrency.

(I do not use thread safe) 

 

Saved 25% by Fixing my cache headers (with minimal documentation on how to
do so)

 

And as a result the costs are not significantly higher on Release than they
were on pre-release.

My bill is higher because I merged most of my apps in to one mult-tenant app
so a bunch of 28 hours of instances stopped being free.. 

 

But yeah, you are wining (one N not two).  If you get the 90 day notice that
your rent is going to increase, vacate or don't complain when your bill is
higher.  

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaan Soral
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:21 AM


To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

 

Thanks for your support Andrius, christof



- And Brandon

You really make no sense to me,
Let me try to explain you the situation with a similar analogy:

Burger King decides to roll out a Frequent Eaters Card (will be referred to
as FEC from now on).
I get a FEC to pay at least %50 less when I eat at Burger King
But Burger King's FEC system doesn't function, they tell me that a problem
occurred and they can't issue my FEC, but I am a Burger King addict, and
despite the FEC problem, I still keep on eating at Burger King for days.

So FEC is Python 2.7 here. I got it, but it doesn't work.

Should Burger King cover my losses?


To give a real life example, above scenario happens a lot on supermarkets
here in Turkey, they keep rolling out promotions, but at the check out, they
almost never get recognized, I am sure this is a marketing strategy, since a

Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Deepak Singh]

Yes. Putting them hard coded values is the last solution but it is tough to
make array of 6500 hard coded values.

@Simon,

How do i store them as serialised data in datastore ?

Regards
Deepak

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Simon Knott  wrote:

> Ha. Yes, Brandon's idea is better.  Need caffeine...
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/6rqyUnPbxIAJ.
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>
>


-- 
Deepak Singh

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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Jeff Schnitzer]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Deepak Singh wrote:

> Yes. Putting them hard coded values is the last solution but it is tough
> to make array of 6500 hard coded values.


Come now, that's silly.  Can you print it to XML?  JSON?  CSV?  You could
even use a templating system to output pure python.  This is like a job
interview question.

Jeff

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Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Brian Quinlan]

Hi Brandon,

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
> Fine. Post your problems and get them fixed, don’t complain that you used
> services you don’t want to pay for.
>
>
>
> Yes 2.7 frontends take longer to load. Reduce the number of imports, and
> create a warm up script that only does the bare minimum, (doesn’t handle a
> request just says “hello I’m up with all the imports”)
>
>
>
> Backends don’t support Channels because they aren’t Front ends. Backends are
> designed for talking to front ends only, channels are designed to talk to
> users. Ergo no channels on the back ends.
>
>
>
> BackEnd SDK broken is too nebulous can’t help you.
>
>
>
> 2.7 Thread Safe works it is just a PITA to implement, so stick to 2.7 with
> thread safe off you get concurrency, and doesn’t require any code changes.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If threadsafe is set to "no" or "off"
then your instances will not be sent requests concurrently.

Cheers,
Brian

>
>
>
> Without code can’t help you on the 10x as long as usual.  Likely based on
> the things you have said, those are also user error.
>
>
>
> GAE is not like hosting on a physical machine, or like using Amazon.  There
> are lots of very strict rules for development. If you break those rules your
> code won’t scale, you will spend a fortune, and badness will ensue.
>
>
>
> You keep saying my cheap food example doesn’t apply, but you keep making it
> complicated.  You either used the service and owe money. Or you didn’t and
> don’t.
>
>
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrius A
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:11 PM
>
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?
>
>
>
> Brandon, your cheap food example here does not make any sense here. Problems
> we are having here that we are paying for the services which do not fully
> work. I am using GAE since early days and was happy with the issues before
> because they didn't cost me a lot. Now GAE came out of the preview release
> with drastically increased prices and the features they advertise do not
> fully work, for example: backends SDK broken, backends do not suppor
> channels API, all my backends stop working 2-3 times per day, time to time
> frontends fail to load throwing deadline exceeded errors, time to time
> requests to frontends take 10 times longer even (processing time is as
> usual), enabling multi threading with python 2.7 makes things even worse. I
> am disappointed because I spent nights trying to adapt changes for new
> billing method later to find out that those new features do not actually
> work!
>
>
>
> On 21 November 2011 19:37, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>
> I run 2.7 Have for weeks. But from where I am sitting you had the option to
> eat somewhere else.  If you had reached out to Google and said “Hey, I want
> to stick with GAE but you have to fix these things if you want more money”,
> and they had agreed that would be one thing.  But you instead are in the
> dine an dash scenario. I at this food, and now I want a refund because it
> cost more than I wanted it to.
>
>
>
> They gave you a tool to tell you how much the new costs would be long in
> advance.  They gave you slider nobs so that if you wanted to lower your
> performance you could keep the pricing you used to have.
>
>
>
> If your cost went up it is because you didn’t gimp your performance.  Is it
> shitty that things cost more?  Yes. Is it Google’s fault you didn’t turn the
> sliders, bail, or implement fixes to reduce costs? No.
>
>
>
> I on the other hand:
>
> Saved 20% by implementing 2.7 for concurrency.
>
> (I do not use thread safe)
>
>
>
> Saved 25% by Fixing my cache headers (with minimal documentation on how to
> do so)
>
>
>
> And as a result the costs are not significantly higher on Release than they
> were on pre-release.
>
> My bill is higher because I merged most of my apps in to one mult-tenant app
> so a bunch of 28 hours of instances stopped being free….
>
>
>
> But yeah, you are wining (one N not two).  If you get the 90 day notice that
> your rent is going to increase, vacate or don’t complain when your bill is
> higher.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kaan Soral
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 11:21 AM
>
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?
>
>
>
> Thanks for your support Andrius, christof
>
> - And Brandon
>
> You really make no sense to me,
> Let me try to explain you the situation with a similar analogy:
>
> Burger King decides to roll out a Frequent Eaters Card (will be referred to
> as FEC from now on).
> I get a FEC to pay at least %50 less when I eat at Burger King
> But Burger King's FEC system doesn't function, they tell me that a problem
> occurred and they can't issue my FEC, but I am a Burger King addict, an

RE: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Brandon Wirtz]

Huh?

 

Way 1:

Put the list in a CSV

String = "Text of CSV"

Explode(String)

 

Way 2:

Read Data from data Store

Serialize Data

Echo/Print Serialized Data

 

Copy/Paste Serialized data in to code

 

Way 3:

Copy data from data viewer in to excel

Export to CSV

Use find and replace to replace New line with New line "   and , with ","

Put a curly at the beginning and end, and paste in to your code.

 

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Deepak Singh
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:40 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

 

Yes. Putting them hard coded values is the last solution but it is tough to
make array of 6500 hard coded values.

 

@Simon,

 

How do i store them as serialised data in datastore ?

 

Regards

Deepak

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Simon Knott  wrote:

Ha. Yes, Brandon's idea is better.  Need caffeine...


--
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-- 
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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Andrius A]

Greg,

before giving any visions, can you please answer the following questions:

1) Honestly, how confident your team is with current GAE release? 100%?
2) Do you/your team think/know that there is issue with providing support
to dev community?
3) From scale 1 (less important) to 10 (most important) how important for
your company is to support us as dev community?
4) Do you have full time dedicated people working to support us, reading
these mail groups? If so, how many people?
5) Do you have any plans to increase/dedicate more people to support the
community?
6) Did you try to determine how many disappointed developers do you have
with the service you provide? If so, did you try to find out the reasons?
7) Do you measurethe production issues left unanswered (per week, month)?
8) Do you have any procedures you tell to your developers how to assist us?
If so, can we know the key ones?
9) Do you have someone senior monitoring our emails and your support
members answers to mail groups/forums?


These answers could show what is the current situation, so we can then make
the further suggestions.

Thanks,
Andrius


On 21 November 2011 18:28, Gregory D'alesandre  wrote:

> This group and stackoverflow are essentially the solution you are
> referring to.  There are a number of people in the group that respond to
> the majority of questions and when something seems like it is a true issue
> someone from the App Engine team starts looking into it.  The main
> difference between this forum and premier support is that there is no
> guaranteed response time.  That's the basic idea of course but it sounds
> like you don't feel like it is working.  How would you envision it working
> differently/better than this group does?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:03 AM, zdravko wrote:
>
>> Greg, can you also work with your bean counting team to determine the
>> added value of GAE user groups acting as their own first support line
>> and then passing onto GAE team just the real issues that to some
>> extent GAE should pay to be informed about in the most concise
>> possible way.  Ask them what they think should be charged to support
>> such small groups of say up to 100 small users ?
>>
>> On Nov 21, 12:57 pm, "Gregory D'alesandre"  wrote:
>> > In order to get a premier account you'll need to go through a corporate
>> > credit check (due to being billed offline rather than having a credit
>> card
>> > verified) which means you need to be an incorporated entity.  This is
>> > likely the biggest issue you'll run into as I'm not sure how many people
>> > are willing to form a new company (including absorbing the liability
>> behind
>> > it).  Having people outside an existing company asking questions
>> through a
>> > single support account would be consider an abuse.  If you are truly
>> > interested in exploring this (as in you are ready to incorporate) let me
>> > know and I can work with the legal team to determine if we see any issue
>> > with it.
>> >
>> > Greg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
>> > > hosting applications under premier account for are big community
>> would not
>> > > work, as it would be difficult to calculate the usage separtly, but I
>> am
>> > > thinking more about getting various issues resolved and questions
>> answered.
>> > > we could have a small organization and use premier account for
>> education
>> > > and testing our apps and limit it to 20-30 members? so we could all
>> have a
>> > > copy of our application running and use it for support?
>> >
>> > > On 21 November 2011 17:16, Barry Hunter 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> I dont see how its going to work. Everyones apps would need to be
>> > >> under the same 'Google Apps Account'
>> >
>> > >> There can only be two 'contacts'. So few people would have to be the
>> > >> point of contact for all requests - another bottleneck/SPOF into the
>> > >> 'system'
>> >
>> > >> All billing for all the apps would go to one person (by invoice). Who
>> > >> would then have to collect payment from all the partipating
>> > >> developers.
>> >
>> > >> Pretty sure somewhere that there is a limit ot the number of requests
>> > >> per month. A shared system will quickly burn though its 'quota'
>> >
>> > >> ... and Google would notice pretty quickly, and almost certainly look
>> > >> unfavorably on the 'abuse' of the system.
>> >
>> > >> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Andrius A 
>> wrote:
>> > >> > As you know we all have problems with GAE, lots of issues and
>> unanswered
>> > >> > questions and Premier Account costs a lot for a single developers
>> or
>> > >> > startups.
>> > >> > What about if we create a independent GAE Developers Organization
>> and
>> > >> open a
>> > >> > single Premier Account? In such a way we could split the cost and
>> have
>> > >> our
>> > >> > issues/questions prioritized and use collective power to push
>> things
>> > >> > forward.
>> > >> > Let me know who is up f

RE: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Brandon Wirtz]

>I'm not sure what you mean here. If threadsafe is set to "no" or "off"
>then your instances will not be sent requests concurrently.

That would explain why I didn't get the gains I expected.  Things were still
faster.
I guess I'll work on that too then.

I get some error in the CGI handler... Would have to look it up to be
certain what the error was.


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Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work

[Deepak Singh]

I would prefer way 2. Using serialised data.

I am a java developer, can you pls let me know how to achieve way 2 ?

Thanks
Deepak

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> Huh?
>
> ** **
>
> Way 1:
>
> Put the list in a CSV
>
> String = “Text of CSV”
>
> Explode(String)
>
> ** **
>
> Way 2:
>
> Read Data from data Store
>
> Serialize Data
>
> Echo/Print Serialized Data
>
> ** **
>
> Copy/Paste Serialized data in to code
>
> ** **
>
> Way 3:
>
> Copy data from data viewer in to excel
>
> Export to CSV
>
> Use find and replace to replace New line with New line “   and , with “,”*
> ***
>
> Put a curly at the beginning and end, and paste in to your code.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Deepak Singh
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 12:40 PM
>
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [google-appengine] Memcache doesn't work
>
> ** **
>
> Yes. Putting them hard coded values is the last solution but it is tough
> to make array of 6500 hard coded values.
>
> ** **
>
> @Simon,
>
> ** **
>
> How do i store them as serialised data in datastore ?
>
> ** **
>
> Regards
>
> Deepak
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:38 AM, Simon Knott 
> wrote:
>
> Ha. Yes, Brandon's idea is better.  Need caffeine...
>
>
> --
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> "Google App Engine" group.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/6rqyUnPbxIAJ.
>
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
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>
>
>
> 
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Deepak Singh
>
> --
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>



-- 
Deepak Singh

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Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Brian Quinlan]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure what you mean here. If threadsafe is set to "no" or "off"
>>then your instances will not be sent requests concurrently.
>
> That would explain why I didn't get the gains I expected.  Things were still
> faster.
> I guess I'll work on that too then.

There is an outstanding bug where enabling threadsafe can cause large
latency increases , especially if your requests use a lot of CPU:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6323

So I'd test carefully before enabling it for anything important.

> I get some error in the CGI handler... Would have to look it up to be
> certain what the error was.

You can't enable threadsafe if you have an CGI handlers (Python gets
upset if there are several __main__ modules ;-)).

Cheers,
Brian

>
> --
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>
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RE: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

[Brandon Wirtz]

I made the changes to be thread safe in all but the configuration utility...
That way I can start load and error testing it.  I'll let you know the
results. 
(yes it took less than 10 minutes) (but that's because I'm a genius  or
be because Nick Johnson has such a great article on how to do it.
http://blog.notdot.net/2011/10/Migrating-to-Python-2-7-part-1-Threadsafe )


-Original Message-
From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Quinlan
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:47 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?

Hi Brandon,

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:36 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
> Fine. Post your problems and get them fixed, don’t complain that you 
> used services you don’t want to pay for.
>
>
>
> Yes 2.7 frontends take longer to load. Reduce the number of imports, 
> and create a warm up script that only does the bare minimum, (doesn’t 
> handle a request just says “hello I’m up with all the imports”)
>
>
>
> Backends don’t support Channels because they aren’t Front ends. 
> Backends are designed for talking to front ends only, channels are 
> designed to talk to users. Ergo no channels on the back ends.
>
>
>
> BackEnd SDK broken is too nebulous can’t help you.
>
>
>
> 2.7 Thread Safe works it is just a PITA to implement, so stick to 2.7 
> with thread safe off you get concurrency, and doesn’t require any code
changes.

I'm not sure what you mean here. If threadsafe is set to "no" or "off"
then your instances will not be sent requests concurrently.

Cheers,
Brian

>
>
>
> Without code can’t help you on the 10x as long as usual.  Likely based 
> on the things you have said, those are also user error.
>
>
>
> GAE is not like hosting on a physical machine, or like using Amazon.  
> There are lots of very strict rules for development. If you break 
> those rules your code won’t scale, you will spend a fortune, and badness
will ensue.
>
>
>
> You keep saying my cheap food example doesn’t apply, but you keep 
> making it complicated.  You either used the service and owe money. Or 
> you didn’t and don’t.
>
>
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrius A
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:11 PM
>
> To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Want my money back, What should I do?
>
>
>
> Brandon, your cheap food example here does not make any sense here. 
> Problems we are having here that we are paying for the services which 
> do not fully work. I am using GAE since early days and was happy with 
> the issues before because they didn't cost me a lot. Now GAE came out 
> of the preview release with drastically increased prices and the 
> features they advertise do not fully work, for example: backends SDK 
> broken, backends do not suppor channels API, all my backends stop 
> working 2-3 times per day, time to time frontends fail to load 
> throwing deadline exceeded errors, time to time requests to frontends 
> take 10 times longer even (processing time is as usual), enabling 
> multi threading with python 2.7 makes things even worse. I am 
> disappointed because I spent nights trying to adapt changes for new 
> billing method later to find out that those new features do not actually
work!
>
>
>
> On 21 November 2011 19:37, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:
>
> I run 2.7 Have for weeks. But from where I am sitting you had the 
> option to eat somewhere else.  If you had reached out to Google and 
> said “Hey, I want to stick with GAE but you have to fix these things 
> if you want more money”, and they had agreed that would be one thing.  
> But you instead are in the dine an dash scenario. I at this food, and 
> now I want a refund because it cost more than I wanted it to.
>
>
>
> They gave you a tool to tell you how much the new costs would be long 
> in advance.  They gave you slider nobs so that if you wanted to lower 
> your performance you could keep the pricing you used to have.
>
>
>
> If your cost went up it is because you didn’t gimp your performance.  
> Is it shitty that things cost more?  Yes. Is it Google’s fault you 
> didn’t turn the sliders, bail, or implement fixes to reduce costs? No.
>
>
>
> I on the other hand:
>
> Saved 20% by implementing 2.7 for concurrency.
>
> (I do not use thread safe)
>
>
>
> Saved 25% by Fixing my cache headers (with minimal documentation on 
> how to do so)
>
>
>
> And as a result the costs are not significantly higher on Release than 
> they were on pre-release.
>
> My bill is higher because I merged most of my apps in to one 
> mult-tenant app so a bunch of 28 hours of instances stopped being free….
>
>
>
> But yeah, you are wining (one N not two).  If you get the 90 day 
> notice that your rent is going to increase, vacate or don’t complain 
> when your bill is higher.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:g

Re: [google-appengine] Help resolve massive performance regression in 2.7 vs 2.5 runtime

[Waleed Abdulla]

Bump!

Nick, I sent the info you requested.

I'm still trying to find an explanation for why using multithreading
increased my response time by 10X. Any ideas?

Waleed



On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Waleed Abdulla  wrote:

> Hi Nick,
> Here are more details, and I'm attaching AppStats screen shots.
>
> - Along with the switch to Python 2.7, we also switched to NDB, and we
> removed our use of memcache in favor of the built-in caching in NDB. So
> when we noticed the delays, the first thing we suspected was that NDB
> caching wasn't working, so we re-implemented our use of memcache. That
> didn't help.
>
> - We checked if there are "pending_ms" values in the logs. There weren't
> any.
>
> - The instance and latency in "Application Settings" are all set to
> "automatic".
>
> - To keep things simple, we tested with one of the simple requests (it
> fetches a Blob from memcache and serves it as an image, then updates values
> in memcache). That request takes 1s to 3s when threadsafe is True, and
> 100-300ms when threadsafe is False.
>
> - I just enabled appstats after your email and collected data for both
> cases. Most of the delay seems to be happening in RPC calls. For example,
> memcache calls seem to take 200ms+. I'm attaching a couple of screen shots
> for a simple request when threadsafe is True and False.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Waleed
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Nick Johnson wrote:
>
>> Hi Waleed,
>>
>> It's impossible to say what the cause of the latency might be without
>> more details. You say you spent a lot of time investigating it; can you
>> show us some of the data you gathered? Did you use appstats?
>>
>> -Nick Johnson
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Waleed Abdulla wrote:
>>
>>> I just switched one of my apps to Python 2.7 and the average latency
>>> went up from 125ms to about 1.3 seconds (about 10x). My app is 'not'
>>> CPU-bound. It has a mix of different use patterns (some requests use
>>> urlfetch, others load data from datastore or memcache). That variety should
>>> make it a good candidate to benefit from multi-threading, but that doesn't
>>> seem to be working as expected. While the number of instances went down
>>> from 9 instances to 6, the 10X increase in latency is not acceptable.
>>>
>>> I spent a lot of time investigating it, and finally changed threadsafe
>>> to false and that fixed the problem (and, of course, raised my instance
>>> count to it's original level). Like the original poster, I was hoping that
>>> multithreading will reduce my instance cost, but that plan failed.
>>>
>>> Am I doing something wrong? Or is multi-threading not ready for live
>>> traffic yet?
>>>
>>> Waleed
>>> app id: bitpixelshr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:10 AM, Jeff Schnitzer wrote:
>>>
 Dunno about the Python library, but the standard Java jBCrypt library
 uses a random salt per-user by default.

 I'm also very suspicious of this idea that the attacker doesn't have
 the source code.  Python is trivially easy to decompile.  Also, where do
 you keep your source code?  In Github?  Opens up a whole new set of attack
 vectors, including disgruntled Github employees.

 Jeff

 On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Brandon Wirtz wrote:

> Nick,
>
> ** **
>
> I agree, that my threat model assumes they didn’t get my source code.
> That “Somebody else’s problem” works under the assumption people are going
> to get my data, not my source code because I don’t ever write my own DB
> server code I am stuck using someone else’s which means the vulnerability
> that I am most likely to face is that somebody else’s screw up will be
> where my problem lies.
>
> ** **
>
> Granted this is a better strategy if you are running compiled code,
> since my code lives on the Google Server I’m at the mercy of Google’s
> Security, where as if I were running compiled code it would be less likely
> someone would get the code.
>
> ** **
>
> I would say that unique salt per user, is a good thing.  The most
> common way to attack a large password database is to look at the most
> common entries and compare against the most common passwords from other
> sources.  If you know the 15 most used passwords and the 15 most often
> occurring database results you are a long ways towards knowing what those
> 15 values are and calculating the salt.  You aren’t crunching millions of
> combinations you are crunching 1000’s and once you have the salt, you take
> your already deciphered list of the most common passwords and you 
> calculate
> the top 5k using bcrypt and you now have about 50% of the data in fewer
> than 10k operations.
>
> ** **
>
> Compare that with my scenario.  You have data. You don’t have the
> source code. The UserID or other “spoiler” is in every salt so the
> re

Re: [google-appengine] Help resolve massive performance regression in 2.7 vs 2.5 runtime

[Brian Quinlan]

Hi Waleed,

This is likely related to this bug:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6323

Though I'm a bit surprised that it is impacting you this much since
you don't seem to be using much CPU.

Cheers,
Brian

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Waleed Abdulla  wrote:
> Bump!
> Nick, I sent the info you requested.
> I'm still trying to find an explanation for why using multithreading
> increased my response time by 10X. Any ideas?
> Waleed
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Waleed Abdulla  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nick,
>>     Here are more details, and I'm attaching AppStats screen shots.
>> - Along with the switch to Python 2.7, we also switched to NDB, and we
>> removed our use of memcache in favor of the built-in caching in NDB. So when
>> we noticed the delays, the first thing we suspected was that NDB caching
>> wasn't working, so we re-implemented our use of memcache. That didn't help.
>> - We checked if there are "pending_ms" values in the logs. There weren't
>> any.
>> - The instance and latency in "Application Settings" are all set to
>> "automatic".
>> - To keep things simple, we tested with one of the simple requests (it
>> fetches a Blob from memcache and serves it as an image, then updates values
>> in memcache). That request takes 1s to 3s when threadsafe is True, and
>> 100-300ms when threadsafe is False.
>> - I just enabled appstats after your email and collected data for both
>> cases. Most of the delay seems to be happening in RPC calls. For example,
>> memcache calls seem to take 200ms+. I'm attaching a couple of screen shots
>> for a simple request when threadsafe is True and False.
>> Hope this helps.
>> Waleed
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Nick Johnson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Waleed,
>>> It's impossible to say what the cause of the latency might be without
>>> more details. You say you spent a lot of time investigating it; can you show
>>> us some of the data you gathered? Did you use appstats?
>>> -Nick Johnson
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Waleed Abdulla 
>>> wrote:

 I just switched one of my apps to Python 2.7 and the average latency
 went up from 125ms to about 1.3 seconds (about 10x). My app is 'not'
 CPU-bound. It has a mix of different use patterns (some requests use
 urlfetch, others load data from datastore or memcache). That variety should
 make it a good candidate to benefit from multi-threading, but that doesn't
 seem to be working as expected. While the number of instances went down 
 from
 9 instances to 6, the 10X increase in latency is not acceptable.
 I spent a lot of time investigating it, and finally changed threadsafe
 to false and that fixed the problem (and, of course, raised my instance
 count to it's original level). Like the original poster, I was hoping that
 multithreading will reduce my instance cost, but that plan failed.
 Am I doing something wrong? Or is multi-threading not ready for live
 traffic yet?
 Waleed
 app id: bitpixelshr




 On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 3:10 AM, Jeff Schnitzer 
 wrote:
>
> Dunno about the Python library, but the standard Java jBCrypt library
> uses a random salt per-user by default.
> I'm also very suspicious of this idea that the attacker doesn't have
> the source code.  Python is trivially easy to decompile.  Also, where do 
> you
> keep your source code?  In Github?  Opens up a whole new set of attack
> vectors, including disgruntled Github employees.
>
> Jeff
> On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Brandon Wirtz 
> wrote:
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree, that my threat model assumes they didn’t get my source code.
>> That “Somebody else’s problem” works under the assumption people are 
>> going
>> to get my data, not my source code because I don’t ever write my own DB
>> server code I am stuck using someone else’s which means the vulnerability
>> that I am most likely to face is that somebody else’s screw up will be 
>> where
>> my problem lies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Granted this is a better strategy if you are running compiled code,
>> since my code lives on the Google Server I’m at the mercy of Google’s
>> Security, where as if I were running compiled code it would be less 
>> likely
>> someone would get the code.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would say that unique salt per user, is a good thing.  The most
>> common way to attack a large password database is to look at the most 
>> common
>> entries and compare against the most common passwords from other sources.
>> If you know the 15 most used passwords and the 15 most often occurring
>> database results you are a long ways towards knowing what those 15 values
>> are and calculating the salt.  You aren’t crunching millions of 
>> combinations
>> you are crunching 1000’s and once you have the sal

[google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

[John Tantalo]

I have an index on one field of my model which I use for exact-match 
lookups (i.e., no range queries).

When a query matches, I expect to get the records which match the value. 
When it doesn't match (when it "missed"), I expect to get no records.

I believe the "missed" cases count towards my datastore read operations 
quota, even though no datastore read operations were performed.

My intuition is that the index and the datastore are two separate things, 
and read of the index should be free. In other words, read operations which 
do not return any records should be free and not count towards the 
datastore read quota.

Am I way off?

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RE: [google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

[Brandon Wirtz]

Yes.

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Tantalo
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:31 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: [google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

 

I have an index on one field of my model which I use for exact-match lookups
(i.e., no range queries).

 

When a query matches, I expect to get the records which match the value.
When it doesn't match (when it "missed"), I expect to get no records.

 

I believe the "missed" cases count towards my datastore read operations
quota, even though no datastore read operations were performed.

 

My intuition is that the index and the datastore are two separate things,
and read of the index should be free. In other words, read operations which
do not return any records should be free and not count towards the datastore
read quota.

 

Am I way off?

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RE: [google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

[Brandon Wirtz]

Oh, I should probably explain why.

 

What is the cost of doing a Google Search for the nonsensical pattern
"Brandonsawesomesaucequery" ?

What is the cost of doing a Google search for "Brandon"

In either case you do a read to see if the thing exists.  And you still have
to check against all the patterns to see if you have a match.

So the query is the same "cost"

Return Each row is a separate cost.

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[google-appengine] MASSIVE ApiProxy$CancelledException Exceptions since Friday Night.

[Scott Murphy]

I have been experiencing MASSIVE ApiProxy$CancelledException exceptions 
since Friday night. 
My instances start up times are also EXTREMELY slow now...

Is anyone else feeling this pain?

com.google.apphosting.api.ApiProxy$CancelledException

 The API call datastore_v3.Put() was explicitly cancelled.

Seems like most of the stack traces contain saveSession in them.

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Re: [google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

[John Tantalo]

I don't doubt you need a read in each case. My point is about *what* the 
read is for, and how the quota are calculated.

App Engine has a quota for,

   - Datastore Write Operations
   - Datastore Read Operations
   - Datastore Index Write Ops
   
Now, I understand that the indexes may be part of the datastore, but if 
index write operations are separate from datastore write operations, why 
aren't the read operations also separated? Clearly they are separate 
things, but it seems they are combine under one quota.

My only question is why, and whether that makes sense.

For instance, it should be much cheaper to check if a query has results (a 
index read) than to return those results (a datastore read), so wouldn't it 
make more sense to have separate quotas?

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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Bob Dohnal]

Hello all

I am just a casual watcher of the GAE community, but according to this 
thread I have to reply with my experience about Google Support. 
I am doing business with other Google teams in enterprise segment - and 
trust me - GAE team's approach to customer support is the best of what I 
have seen from Google.
You post a question in a public group and you get a reply directly from GAE 
team member within an hour?! For free? heh... I would pay thousands to have 
this with other Google products...

Just a note to a single question from Andrius post:
4) Do you have full time dedicated people working to support us, reading 
these mail groups?
I would not ask for this. You are lucky you can talk to a real team member. 
Any support guy will get used to customers complaints, is trained to how to 
deal with objections, etc.

Googlers are just a regular people as we are. You read this group, I read 
this group, they read this group. Would you expect anything else?

Cheers from Europe

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RE: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Brandon Wirtz]

Yes. GAE even free support is 1Billion with a B times better than say
Adsense.  Even than adwords.   Adsense still owes clients about 50k and they
respond only by email only once every 5 days, and they keep changing when
they will pay. But for the inconvenience in a month from now they will pay
5% more than the amount they can't determine they owe.   If you can't get
support on $50k something is wrong.

 

GAE you can get support of Free.  That's a huge improvement.

 

Now in 3 years when the product is in sustainability and all our friends in
the group have moved on. It will likely go back to the way it is with all
the other products.  So enjoy it while it lasts, and quit complaining or
those team members will put it in sustainability and move on to something
more fun like Google Dots, or Google Cars, or Google teleportation.  

 

Based on the 99.5% reliability I'm not buying Google Cars or Teleportation
just for the record.. I need to not die less than 5 out of 1000 trips to the
store.

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Dohnal
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 2:03 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to
open a GAE Premier account?

 

Hello all

 

I am just a casual watcher of the GAE community, but according to this
thread I have to reply with my experience about Google Support. 

I am doing business with other Google teams in enterprise segment - and
trust me - GAE team's approach to customer support is the best of what I
have seen from Google.

You post a question in a public group and you get a reply directly from GAE
team member within an hour?! For free? heh... I would pay thousands to have
this with other Google products...

 

Just a note to a single question from Andrius post:

4) Do you have full time dedicated people working to support us, reading
these mail groups?

I would not ask for this. You are lucky you can talk to a real team member.
Any support guy will get used to customers complaints, is trained to how to
deal with objections, etc.

 

Googlers are just a regular people as we are. You read this group, I read
this group, they read this group. Would you expect anything else?

 

Cheers from Europe

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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Andrius A]

I posted around 5 emails, some are few weeks old and it appears I am very
unluky because Google didn't reply.

This mail group is not a support, you were really really lucky to get the
response, I wonder what happens next time you have a problem.. you will be
ringing bells


On 21 November 2011 22:02, Bob Dohnal  wrote:

> Hello all
>
> I am just a casual watcher of the GAE community, but according to this
> thread I have to reply with my experience about Google Support.
> I am doing business with other Google teams in enterprise segment - and
> trust me - GAE team's approach to customer support is the best of what I
> have seen from Google.
> You post a question in a public group and you get a reply directly from
> GAE team member within an hour?! For free? heh... I would pay thousands to
> have this with other Google products...
>
> Just a note to a single question from Andrius post:
> 4) Do you have full time dedicated people working to support us, reading
> these mail groups?
> I would not ask for this. You are lucky you can talk to a real team
> member. Any support guy will get used to customers complaints, is trained
> to how to deal with objections, etc.
>
> Googlers are just a regular people as we are. You read this group, I read
> this group, they read this group. Would you expect anything else?
>
> Cheers from Europe
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Google App Engine" group.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/b900Uc-vO7gJ.
>
> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Yoav Amit]

+1 regarding Andrius's questions.

Amazing that you guys have gotten so much used to the bad relations of
other Google products, that even the slightest improvement means the world
to you (and yes, kudos to the GAE for the improvement).

Other services and companies have a formal email address you can send
emails to and receive an appropriate answer. Not an informal forum who's
support is given "by favor". And no, it's not for free - it's for
approximately the same price we pay as a standard paying GAE customer.
Funny we've gotten to a point where support is something we need to beg (or
pay an noncompetitive price) for.

Just to note, during GDD I've asked some senior Google representatives
about this - All agree that Google is way behind other companies in client
support and relations.

 - Yoav.


On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:59 AM, Andrius A  wrote:

> I posted around 5 emails, some are few weeks old and it appears I am very
> unluky because Google didn't reply.
>
> This mail group is not a support, you were really really lucky to get the
> response, I wonder what happens next time you have a problem.. you will be
> ringing bells
>
>
>
> On 21 November 2011 22:02, Bob Dohnal  wrote:
>
>> Hello all
>>
>> I am just a casual watcher of the GAE community, but according to this
>> thread I have to reply with my experience about Google Support.
>> I am doing business with other Google teams in enterprise segment - and
>> trust me - GAE team's approach to customer support is the best of what I
>> have seen from Google.
>> You post a question in a public group and you get a reply directly from
>> GAE team member within an hour?! For free? heh... I would pay thousands to
>> have this with other Google products...
>>
>> Just a note to a single question from Andrius post:
>> 4) Do you have full time dedicated people working to support us, reading
>> these mail groups?
>> I would not ask for this. You are lucky you can talk to a real team
>> member. Any support guy will get used to customers complaints, is trained
>> to how to deal with objections, etc.
>>
>> Googlers are just a regular people as we are. You read this group, I read
>> this group, they read this group. Would you expect anything else?
>>
>> Cheers from Europe
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Google App Engine" group.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/b900Uc-vO7gJ.
>>
>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>
>
>  --
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 - Yoav

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[google-appengine] uptime statistics for each HRD application

[Will]

An uptime statistics report for each HRD application seems in order, just
like usage reports for each app.

Since every app is paying for its own guaranteed uptime, with individual
report, we won't get into this "although your app is broken for this short
period time, the system as a whole functions as expected" mess...

Thoughts?

Will

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Re: [google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

[Jeff Schnitzer]

My WAG is that a query which returns no results will cost you 1 "minor
operation" (like a key-only query or a count step).

Jeff

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:08 PM, John Tantalo wrote:

> I don't doubt you need a read in each case. My point is about *what* the
> read is for, and how the quota are calculated.
>
> App Engine has a quota for,
>
>- Datastore Write Operations
>- Datastore Read Operations
>- Datastore Index Write Ops
>
> Now, I understand that the indexes may be part of the datastore, but if
> index write operations are separate from datastore write operations, why
> aren't the read operations also separated? Clearly they are separate
> things, but it seems they are combine under one quota.
>
> My only question is why, and whether that makes sense.
>
> For instance, it should be much cheaper to check if a query has results (a
> index read) than to return those results (a datastore read), so wouldn't it
> make more sense to have separate quotas?
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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RE: [google-appengine] uptime statistics for each HRD application

[Brandon Wirtz]

How would it know?

 

And which measure do you use?

 

Say I'm down to all users on AOL because Google suffered a DNS poisoning
attack, Which has happened once before.  Am I down? 


Google has DataStore Write locked (like happens on MS) my app handles that,
but I bet yours doesn't. Am I down? Are You?

 

Pre-Processing Latency rises to 20 seconds, so all requests that take more
than 40s to complete fail. Is the service down?

 

All processes take 50% longer than they did previously, now all requests
that took 40s fail, and apps using a max idle/ min latency setting fail 20%
of the time Is the Service 100% down? 50% down? 20% down?

 

I now have edge cache handling 40% of all my requests. So even if all GAE is
down I'm 40% up, does that mean that 99.1% = 99.5% 

 

My Uptime monitoring "Internally" polls every 20 seconds and uses a random
number in the query as a cache buster to prevent the cache giving a false
up, but the request is also optimized to not put load on the system so I
don't know if something like all reads from memcache return null.

 

SLA's are worth about as much as the HTML they are written on.  You either
trust that the company will be up, or you don't.   Amazon's week of down
time means they are 200 weeks from 99.5% uptime.  And I'd rather have my
week of down time spread out in 5 minute increments over 4 years than
getting it all at once.

 

 

From: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
[mailto:google-appengine@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Will
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 5:19 PM
To: google-appengine@googlegroups.com
Subject: [google-appengine] uptime statistics for each HRD application

 

An uptime statistics report for each HRD application seems in order, just
like usage reports for each app.

 

Since every app is paying for its own guaranteed uptime, with individual
report, we won't get into this "although your app is broken for this short
period time, the system as a whole functions as expected" mess...

 

Thoughts?

 

Will

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Re: [google-appengine] Query returning about 2000 results?

[Jeff Schnitzer]

2 minutes to pull 2000 rows is crazy slow.  That doesn't sound right.  I
would expect a few seconds.

One thing you should consider is putting all the elements under a common
'schematic' parent and fetching them with an ancestor query.  This should
be faster than walking a regular index.

Jeff

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Kyle Anderson wrote:

> I run an application which manages large grid schematics.  A schematic
> has about 2000 grid elements (transformers, power lines, voltage
> regulators, etc).  There are about 40 different types of grid
> elements, which are mostly set in stone.  Each grid element has about
> 40 attribute (voltage rating, install date, etc).  The attributes are
> not necessarily fixed (attributes could be added semi-frequently).
>
> Here is are some example rows for a single schematic (schematicId=1)
> which contains a Transformer, a PowerLine, and a Regulator
>
> ElementId, SchematicId, ElementType, ElementAttributes
>
> Example rows:
> 1, 1, Transformer, 55/1/2011 install_date>
> 2, 1, PowerLine, 55/1/2011 install_date>
> 3, 1, Regulator, 5KW5/1/2011 install_date>
>
>
> When the user wants to a load a schematic, I simply query this table
> for all entries with the associated schematicId (this returns about
> 2000 rows).  The problem is that this process takes about 2 minutes.
> (even though the data is only about 10MB).
>
> Suggestions for improvement?
>
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Re: [google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

[Brian Quinlan]

Hi John,

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 9:31 AM, John Tantalo  wrote:
> I have an index on one field of my model which I use for exact-match lookups
> (i.e., no range queries).
> When a query matches, I expect to get the records which match the value.
> When it doesn't match (when it "missed"), I expect to get no records.
> I believe the "missed" cases count towards my datastore read operations
> quota, even though no datastore read operations were performed.
> My intuition is that the index and the datastore are two separate things,
> and read of the index should be free. In other words, read operations which
> do not return any records should be free and not count towards the datastore
> read quota.
> Am I way off?

A query will always cost you at least one datastore read.

This page shows how various high-level operations translate into the quota used:
http://code.google.com/appengine/docs/billing.html#Billable_Resource_Unit_Cost

Cheers,
Brian
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Re: [google-appengine] Who wants to be in a group (organization) to open a GAE Premier account?

[Jeff Schnitzer]

You've clearly never tried developing a Facebook application.  Or something
on ElasticBeanstalk.  Or using PayPal.

The support in this forum is astounding.  It's not "you're one of 100
developers working with a hungry 5-person startup" but it's still really
good compared to nearly every other customer support experience I have ever
had in my entire software development career.

Jeff

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:37 PM, Yoav Amit  wrote:

> +1 regarding Andrius's questions.
>
> Amazing that you guys have gotten so much used to the bad relations of
> other Google products, that even the slightest improvement means the world
> to you (and yes, kudos to the GAE for the improvement).
>
> Other services and companies have a formal email address you can send
> emails to and receive an appropriate answer. Not an informal forum who's
> support is given "by favor". And no, it's not for free - it's for
> approximately the same price we pay as a standard paying GAE customer.
> Funny we've gotten to a point where support is something we need to beg (or
> pay an noncompetitive price) for.
>
> Just to note, during GDD I've asked some senior Google representatives
> about this - All agree that Google is way behind other companies in client
> support and relations.
>
>  - Yoav.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 1:59 AM, Andrius A  wrote:
>
>> I posted around 5 emails, some are few weeks old and it appears I am very
>> unluky because Google didn't reply.
>>
>> This mail group is not a support, you were really really lucky to get the
>> response, I wonder what happens next time you have a problem.. you will be
>> ringing bells
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21 November 2011 22:02, Bob Dohnal  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all
>>>
>>> I am just a casual watcher of the GAE community, but according to this
>>> thread I have to reply with my experience about Google Support.
>>> I am doing business with other Google teams in enterprise segment - and
>>> trust me - GAE team's approach to customer support is the best of what I
>>> have seen from Google.
>>> You post a question in a public group and you get a reply directly from
>>> GAE team member within an hour?! For free? heh... I would pay thousands to
>>> have this with other Google products...
>>>
>>> Just a note to a single question from Andrius post:
>>> 4) Do you have full time dedicated people working to support us, reading
>>> these mail groups?
>>> I would not ask for this. You are lucky you can talk to a real team
>>> member. Any support guy will get used to customers complaints, is trained
>>> to how to deal with objections, etc.
>>>
>>> Googlers are just a regular people as we are. You read this group, I
>>> read this group, they read this group. Would you expect anything else?
>>>
>>> Cheers from Europe
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Google App Engine" group.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/google-appengine/-/b900Uc-vO7gJ.
>>>
>>> To post to this group, send email to google-appengine@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> google-appengine+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/google-appengine?hl=en.
>>>
>>
>>  --
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>
>
>
> --
>  - Yoav
>
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{SAP-Jobs-SAP-FAQ} {{ http://www.bignlife.in } [google-appengine] Tread Safe On Vs OFF

[Brandon Wirtz]

This is Off:



This is on:



 

Total instances would seem to be a lot lower.  The "billed" number doesn't
seem to show up on non-default versions so I can't tell you right off it
things are better or worse there.

Looks like it should save Google money :-)

 

 

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<><>

[google-appengine] Re: Query returning about 2000 results?

[GordonHo]

i am having sort of the same problem.

i need to catch about 4000 entries for a specific frontend user - i could 
split up the query, but it is really a slow thing unless i am using 
memcache (which i haven't implemented for real).

my experience is about 50 seconds for all 4000 entries. this does not 
involve any ancestors, or filtering. only ordering by an index.

cheers
gordon

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[google-appengine] JSONBOT 0.80.3 released

[Bart Thate]

Hello world !! I released JSONBOT 0.80.3 .. the first in the 0.80 series ;] 

about 
~ 

JSONBOT is a chatbot that can take commands and react to events on the 
network it is connected to (IRC, XMPP, WEB 
mostely). Push functionality is also provided (think RSS feeds to your IRC 
channel or XMPP conference). It is possible to program your own plugins to 
create custom 
functionality. 

source/docs 
~~~ 

 see http://jsonbot.org and http://jsonbot.googlecode.com 


make backup first 
~ 

I added the jsb-backup program, please run this before starting the 0.80 
bot. It will make a backup of your datadir into ~/jsb-backups 

changes 
~~~ 

* GAE is no longer part of the standard distribution, as that is aimed at 
shell users as of 0.80 - use the mercurial repo if you want to use the GAE 
part of the bot 
* web console is now supported on shell - use the jsb-tornado program to 
launch a tornado web server bot on port 10102 
* jsb-xmpp now supports OpenFire - use --openfire option to enable this 
* todo now uses per user databases instead of per channel - use the -c 
option to the todo command to show the channel todo 
* learn items are not global per default - use !learn-toglobal to copy 
local learn data to the global learndb 
* relay plugins has been rewritten to use bot.cfg.name as well - means that 
relays need to be created again   
* jsb-udpstripped program has been added that can be used to send udp data 
to the bot without the need of making config files (copy and edit it) 
* add fulljids = 1 to your xmpp bot config (most of the times in 
~/.jsb/config/fleet/default-sxmpp/config) to enable full JID discovery in 
xmpp conference rooms 
  (non anonymous) 

and: 

* lots of new plugins .. see !list ;] 
* lots of bug fixes - thnx everybody for reporting them 
* still lots of things to fix at 

03:35 < jsonbot> tracker is http://code.google.com/p/jsonbot/issues/list 

If you find any problems or have feature request please post that on the 
tracker url above. 

Or try @botfather on #dunkbots on irc.freenode.net ;] 

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[google-appengine] Re: Instances - How do they work?

[WallyDD]

I have logged this as two separate issues;

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6391

http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=6390


On Nov 21, 1:25 pm, WallyDD  wrote:
> I am little confused with how these instances work.
>
> How long does an instance stay alive?
> A site in Python 2.5 (M/S) fires up an instance when it is accessed
> and the instance stays alive for minutes after.
> With Python 2.7(HRD) the instance is killed off after a matter of
> seconds. So I either have to pay and keep the application alive but
> then it gets tricky.
> And to add insult to injury, if I access a python 2.7 application and
> get one page, the instance lasts for a few seconds but I am billed for
> 15 minutes. If I am billed for 15 minutes please would it be possible
> for the instance to stay alive for something close to 15 minutes?
>
> Now if I enable billing (for the cost of $2.10 a week).
> I can adjust the sliders under application settings, I have two
> settings "Idle instances" and "Pending latency".
>
> Leaving "Idle instances" at Automatic results in instances only
> lasting a few seconds. Setting it to 1 results in having a "Resident"
> instance and this sort of works. I can use the application a little
> but then a second instance fires up and leaves one instance completely
> idle. All I want is one instance running. I put "Pending Latency" up
> to 500ms to try and stop other instances firing up.
>
> I use the application and so now I have two instances serving, The
> resident instance is sitting there doing nothing and I am using
> another instance but being billed for both.
> So I go an play with the sliders and set idle instances to automatic
> and it kills one off (the resident one that was doing nothing). But
> then the instances start with their stop start routine and the
> application is very unresponsive.
>
> Is there a bug with the instancing or is there something that I really
> don't understand here.

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[google-appengine] chrome https warning for unsecured content

[James Gilliam]

I am using HTTPS but get the annoying caution warning (or even big red
X warning) when using the chrome browser when there is unsecured
content in the page.  This can occur if even one http://  is
being used, e.g. a profile pic from twitter. Or if you are loading
javascript from an ad server. I looked for a more appropriate forum
because I realize this is a Chrome issue but could not find any.

I have been able to get away from some of this by redirecting from my
own https to the http ... this redirection Chrome does not detect;
unfortunately, the ad server disallows it.

There is no warning in Safari.

My customer is complaining that the https warning makes my content
seem less secure to others.

Any ideas out there.

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Re: [google-appengine] counting missed datastore read operations

[John Tantalo]

Thanks Brian! This is exactly what I was looking for.

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[google-appengine] Re: HTTPS with wildcards subdomains on custom domains

[Cayden Meyer]

Hi Andrin,
SSL for Custom Domains does support wildcard certificates and can be
used with wildcard DNS. This can be done using both SNI and VIP.
Currently SSL for Custom Domains is in a trusted tester phase and is
not related to premier accounts. If you wish to test SSL you can sign
up for our trusted tester program.
At the current point in time we do not support for subdomain.app-
id.appspot.com. This is due to browsers not respecting *.*.appspot.com
in certificates.
Cayden MeyerApp Engine Product Manager
On Nov 22, 12:45 am, Andrin von Rechenberg  wrote:
> oh, and one last question:
>
> will you also start supportinghttps://subdomain.app-id.appspot.com?
> Currently this is an invalid certificate because of the subdomain.
>
> -Andrin
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Guess I found the answer in the SSL announcement mail:
>
> > *We will be offering two types of SSL service, Server Name Indication
> > (SNI) and Virtual IP(VIP). SNI will be significantly less expensive
> > than VIP when this service is fully launched, however unlike VIP it
> > does not work everywhere SSL is supported, notably it is not supported
> > by IE and Safari on Windows XP. Multiple certificates are supported by
> > SNI, while the VIP service only supports a single certificate per
> > virtual IP address. Wildcard certificates and certificates with
> > alternate names are supported by both SNI and VIP.*
> > *
> > *
> > So it will work, right?
>
> > -Andrin
>
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Andrin von Rechenberg  > > wrote:
>
> >> Hey there
>
> >> I have setup wild card subdomains for my custom domain on appengine:
>
> >> *.customdomain.com points to 
> >> 216.239.32.21
> >> , 
> >> 216.239.34.21
> >> , 
> >> 216.239.36.21
> >> , 
> >> 216.239.38.21
>
> >> so my app is happily serving traffic from any subdomain without
> >> additional configuration:
> >> foo.customdomain.com, bar.customdomain.com,
> >> a54h94brodnsln.customdomain.com 
>
> >> If I sign up for a premier account, can I have one https certificate for
> >> all these subdomain now and serve https traffic on any subdomain?
>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -Andrin

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Re: [google-appengine] Re: Query returning about 2000 results?

[Jeff Schnitzer]

The way I understand this (maybe a googler can correct me if I'm wrong):

A query on an index walks the index bigtable getting keys, then makes
separate fetches to the main data bigtable to get the entity data.  Each
entity could live in a different tablet so there might be a lot of RPCs and
a lot of different servers involved.

A kindless ancestor query (and filtering on __key__ in general) doesn't use
the separate index table - it walks the main data bigtable itself and the
full data records are right there in sequence.  This is analogous to a
clustered index in an RDBMS, and should be really fast.

So if you have a big chunk of related data that you want to store in
component parts (as opposed to embedded in a single entity) but you need to
pull up at once, give them a single common parent and use a kindless
ancestor query to suck it all in.  And then post performance metrics here
because I haven't tried this and I'm really curious to know if it makes a
big difference :-)

Jeff

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:31 PM, GordonHo  wrote:

> i am having sort of the same problem.
>
> i need to catch about 4000 entries for a specific frontend user - i could
> split up the query, but it is really a slow thing unless i am using
> memcache (which i haven't implemented for real).
>
> my experience is about 50 seconds for all 4000 entries. this does not
> involve any ancestors, or filtering. only ordering by an index.
>
> cheers
> gordon
>
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Re: [google-appengine] Query returning about 2000 results?

[Brian Quinlan]

Hi Kyle,

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:58 AM, Kyle Anderson  wrote:
> I run an application which manages large grid schematics.  A schematic
> has about 2000 grid elements (transformers, power lines, voltage
> regulators, etc).  There are about 40 different types of grid
> elements, which are mostly set in stone.  Each grid element has about
> 40 attribute (voltage rating, install date, etc).  The attributes are
> not necessarily fixed (attributes could be added semi-frequently).
>
> Here is are some example rows for a single schematic (schematicId=1)
> which contains a Transformer, a PowerLine, and a Regulator
>
> ElementId, SchematicId, ElementType, ElementAttributes
>
> Example rows:
> 1, 1, Transformer, 55/1/2011 install_date>
> 2, 1, PowerLine, 55/1/2011 install_date>
> 3, 1, Regulator, 5KW5/1/2011 install_date>
>
>
> When the user wants to a load a schematic, I simply query this table
> for all entries with the associated schematicId (this returns about
> 2000 rows).  The problem is that this process takes about 2 minutes.
> (even though the data is only about 10MB).
>
> Suggestions for improvement?

Could you post your query code?

Cheers,
Brian

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Re: [google-appengine] Query returning about 2000 results?

[Nick Johnson]

Hi Kyle,

It sounds like you generally fetch a schematic all at once. Rather than
storing them as separate datastore objects, why not serialize them all as a
single "schematic" object, which you fetch and store as a single unit?

-Nick Johnson

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 6:58 AM, Kyle Anderson wrote:

> I run an application which manages large grid schematics.  A schematic
> has about 2000 grid elements (transformers, power lines, voltage
> regulators, etc).  There are about 40 different types of grid
> elements, which are mostly set in stone.  Each grid element has about
> 40 attribute (voltage rating, install date, etc).  The attributes are
> not necessarily fixed (attributes could be added semi-frequently).
>
> Here is are some example rows for a single schematic (schematicId=1)
> which contains a Transformer, a PowerLine, and a Regulator
>
> ElementId, SchematicId, ElementType, ElementAttributes
>
> Example rows:
> 1, 1, Transformer, 55/1/2011 install_date>
> 2, 1, PowerLine, 55/1/2011 install_date>
> 3, 1, Regulator, 5KW5/1/2011 install_date>
>
>
> When the user wants to a load a schematic, I simply query this table
> for all entries with the associated schematicId (this returns about
> 2000 rows).  The problem is that this process takes about 2 minutes.
> (even though the data is only about 10MB).
>
> Suggestions for improvement?
>
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Re: [google-appengine] uptime statistics for each HRD application

[Will]

Same measure as Google uses for the 'entire system' uptime.

If there is a will to know, there is a way to know. Just as GAE can measure
every application's datastore read/write/small op numbers and every
instance usage down to minute.

Otherwise, why bother to put 99.95% in EULA?

Will

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Brandon Wirtz  wrote:

> How would it know?
>
> ** **
>
> And which measure do you use?
>
> ** **
>
> Say I’m down to all users on AOL because Google suffered a DNS poisoning
> attack, Which has happened once before.  Am I down? 
>
>
> Google has DataStore Write locked (like happens on MS) my app handles
> that, but I bet yours doesn’t. Am I down? Are You?
>
> ** **
>
> Pre-Processing Latency rises to 20 seconds, so all requests that take more
> than 40s to complete fail. Is the service down?
>
> ** **
>
> All processes take 50% longer than they did previously, now all requests
> that took 40s fail, and apps using a max idle/ min latency setting fail 20%
> of the time Is the Service 100% down? 50% down? 20% down?
>
> ** **
>
> I now have edge cache handling 40% of all my requests… So even if all GAE
> is down I’m 40% up, does that mean that 99.1% = 99.5% 
>
> ** **
>
> My Uptime monitoring “Internally” polls every 20 seconds and uses a random
> number in the query as a cache buster to prevent the cache giving a false
> up, but the request is also optimized to not put load on the system so I
> don’t know if something like all reads from memcache return null.
>
> ** **
>
> SLA’s are worth about as much as the HTML they are written on.  You either
> trust that the company will be up, or you don’t.   Amazon’s week of down
> time means they are 200 weeks from 99.5% uptime.  And I’d rather have my
> week of down time spread out in 5 minute increments over 4 years than
> getting it all at once.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> google-appengine@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Will
> *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2011 5:19 PM
> *To:* google-appengine@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* [google-appengine] uptime statistics for each HRD application**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> An uptime statistics report for each HRD application seems in order, just
> like usage reports for each app.
>
>  
>
> Since every app is paying for its own guaranteed uptime, with individual
> report, we won't get into this "although your app is broken for this short
> period time, the system as a whole functions as expected" mess...
>
>  
>
> Thoughts?
>
>  
>
> Will
>
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