Re: [h-cost] early 20th century serger use (was sergers)

[Kimiko Small]

Thank you Andy. I have a friend who works at a semi-local museum (well, up in 
Oakhurst, CA. if you ever want to do a road trip sometime). It's called the 
King Vintage Museum, and she said they have a number of garments available for 
hands on viewing. I will give her a buzz. Thanks for the suggestion, and for 
info on the serged uniform.

Kimiko


--- On Sun, 11/30/08, Andrew T Trembley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As to how they were used, the best thing you can do is, if
> possible, look at extant Edwardian garments. An ex-boyfriend
> of mine has a fabulous pre-WWI West Point Cadet's Dress
> Uniform; IIRC 2-thread overlock stitch was used to bind the
> edges of the pattern pieces to prevent the heavy wool from
> fraying.
> 
> andy



  
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Re: [h-cost] early 20th century serger use (was sergers)

[Andrew T Trembley]

Kimiko Small wrote:

Would you mind sharing what you know about how sergers were used for the early 
20th century garments? I presume they were similar, but not the same as used 
today, or were they? I have this Edwardian coat I want to work on, but the 
directions with the pattern is rather scant on fully period techniques. I am 
still debating in my head how period, or how modern I want to be when working 
on it.
  


2-thread overlocking dates back to at least 1890 with a Wilcox & Gibbs 
overlock patent that uses a looper system very familiar to serger owners 
of today.


As to how they were used, the best thing you can do is, if possible, 
look at extant Edwardian garments. An ex-boyfriend of mine has a 
fabulous pre-WWI West Point Cadet's Dress Uniform; IIRC 2-thread 
overlock stitch was used to bind the edges of the pattern pieces to 
prevent the heavy wool from fraying.


andy
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[h-cost] early 20th century serger use (was sergers)

[Kimiko Small]

--- On Sun, 11/30/08, Andrew T Trembley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The folks who talk about sergers not being appropriate for
> historical costume are short-sighted. They are entirely
> appropriate for early 20th century manufactured clothing
> recreation.
> 
> andy


Thank you Andy. I knew Lord Matthew, having noted that he was in the SCA, was 
looking for info appropriate for SCA use (pre-17th century).

Would you mind sharing what you know about how sergers were used for the early 
20th century garments? I presume they were similar, but not the same as used 
today, or were they? I have this Edwardian coat I want to work on, but the 
directions with the pattern is rather scant on fully period techniques. I am 
still debating in my head how period, or how modern I want to be when working 
on it.

Thank you,

Kimiko





  
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Re: [h-cost] - sergers

[Andrew T Trembley]

julian wilson wrote:

Gentles of the Historic costume List,
just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines,  - 
 would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a "normal" domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items?

I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no 
doubt,  - have not found any answers we can readily understand.

with thanks for your clarifications,
"Lord Matthew Baker", of the SCA-[UK]
  


You've got some mostly good information from others on the list. A few 
years back I wrote an introductory article on sergers; it's still up at:



The folks who talk about sergers not being appropriate for historical 
costume are short-sighted. They are entirely appropriate for early 20th 
century manufactured clothing recreation.


andy
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Re: [h-cost] - sergers

[Catherine Olanich Raymond]

On Sunday 30 November 2008 6:51:07 pm Kimiko Small wrote:
> --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Sid Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is
> > rolled hems...
> > were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901?
>
> Hand rolled hems have been seen in extant medieval garments, mostly on
> veils, I believe from the books I've read and what I retained from them. I
> am sure others more knowledgeable on this list could tell you exactly what
> garments had hand rolled hems.

That's right.  I remember a few rolled hems from the Viking era.  (Of course, 
those and the medieval examples were done by hand, not with 
sergers/overlockers.)  :-)


--
Cathy Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"The heresy of one age becomes the orthodoxy of the next."
--Helen Keller 


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Re: [h-cost] - sergers

[Kimiko Small]

--- On Sun, 11/30/08, Sid Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is
> rolled hems...
> were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901?
> 


Hand rolled hems have been seen in extant medieval garments, mostly on veils, I 
believe from the books I've read and what I retained from them. I am sure 
others more knowledgeable on this list could tell you exactly what garments had 
hand rolled hems.

Kimiko





  
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Re: [h-cost] - sergers

[Suzi Clarke]

At 21:21 30/11/2008, you wrote:

Suzi,

Just a point of note - If you are to make impeccably accurate costumes of a
pre-industrial period then there were no overlockers (sergers), but I would
still use it to make good quality clothing. :)


I did actually make that point in my comment "A serger is what we in 
England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic method 
clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your 
fabric, usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch 
line and leaving a neat edge. You will find such an edge on most 
seams of most modern garments. The over edge stitch can also be done 
by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is 
no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying."



One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is rolled hems



were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901?


Not my overlocker - it simply overlocks - no fancy finishes.

My comments to the gentleman in Jersey were based on the fact that 
they do not have the time or the expertise to finish their costumes, 
which I believe are WOTR period, and he thought it would be useful, 
even though not historically accurate, to have one.


Suzi 


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Re: [h-cost] - sergers

[Sid Young]

Suzi,

Just a point of note - If you are to make impeccably accurate costumes of a
pre-industrial period then there were no overlockers (sergers), but I would
still use it to make good quality clothing. :)

One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is rolled hems...
were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901?


Sidney

P.S. Thanks to all those who responded to my earlier email on costume books,
thanks, order going in for Christmas shortly.



On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:26 AM, Suzi Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 15:50 30/11/2008, you wrote:
>
>> Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this List who have clarified
>> for my House and I just what a "serger" does, and what use such a machine
>> might be for us in our"Third Age"Â  living-history hobby. From your comments
>> I suspect a serger might be a substantial time-saver - since all of the garb
>> we make is only to "pass the 10-foot Rule" [" if it looks OK from 10 feet
>> away, that's good enough" - so using a serger on interior seams sound good
>> to us],  - we have so many projects we wish to accomplish "in the limited
>> time & budgets ofour declining years" that we have given-up the idea of
>> trying for "museum-replica" quality in our equipment. Tnhaks once again, Â
>> "Matthew Baker" [aka Julian Wilson in 2008]
>>
>
> In that case, see if you can find a second hand industrial "Singer" or
> Jones" or "Bernina". They are sturdier that those made for the domestic
> market and although tricky to thread sometimes, seem to do a better job, in
> my opinion. I have a second hand 3 thread Singer industrial I bought over 20
> years ago, and the only time it had to be fixed was when I sewed over a pin
> and threw the timing off and blunted the blade that cuts the fabric. Three
> threads gives you a finished edge, by the way, and is the basic minimum - in
> my opinion you really don't need anything with more threads, if all you want
> to do is finish edges.
>
>
> Suzi
>
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Re: [h-cost] - sergers

[Suzi Clarke]

At 15:50 30/11/2008, you wrote:
Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this 
List who have clarified for my House and I just 
what a "serger" does, and what use such a 
machine might be for us in our"Third 
Age"Â  living-history hobby. From your comments 
I suspect a serger might be a substantial 
time-saver - since all of the garb we make is 
only to "pass the 10-foot Rule" [" if it looks 
OK from 10 feet away, that's good enough" - so 
using a serger on interior seams sound good to 
us],  - we have so many projects we wish to 
accomplish "in the limited time & budgets ofour 
declining years" that we have given-up the idea 
of trying for "museum-replica" quality in our 
equipment. Tnhaks once again, Â "Matthew Baker" [aka Julian Wilson in 2008]


In that case, see if you can find a second hand 
industrial "Singer" or Jones" or "Bernina". They 
are sturdier that those made for the domestic 
market and although tricky to thread sometimes, 
seem to do a better job, in my opinion. I have a 
second hand 3 thread Singer industrial I bought 
over 20 years ago, and the only time it had to be 
fixed was when I sewed over a pin and threw the 
timing off and blunted the blade that cuts the 
fabric. Three threads gives you a finished edge, 
by the way, and is the basic minimum - in my 
opinion you really don't need anything with more 
threads, if all you want to do is finish edges.


Suzi

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Re: [h-cost] - sergers

[julian wilson]

Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this List who have clarified for my 
House and I just what a "serger" does, and what use such a machine might be for 
us in our"Third Age"  living-history hobby.
From your comments I suspect a serger might be a substantial time-saver - since 
all of the garb we make is only to "pass the 10-foot Rule" [" if it looks OK 
from 10 feet away, that's good enough" - so using a serger on interior seams 
sound good to us],  - we have so many projects we wish to accomplish "in the 
limited time & budgets ofour declining years" that we have given-up the idea of 
trying for "museum-replica" quality in our equipment. 

Tnhaks once again,
 "Matthew Baker"
[aka Julian Wilson in 2008]
--- On Sat, 29/11/08, Suzi Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Suzi Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [h-cost] -  sergers
To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, 29 November, 2008, 12:25 PM

At 11:28 29/11/2008, you wrote:
> Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House,
who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using
a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers]
domestic sewing machines,  -  would any Gentle of the List explain to us [
and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger
and a "normal" domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of
having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have
done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, 
- have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your
clarifications, "Lord Matthew Baker", of the SCA-[UK]

A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic
method clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your fabric,
usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch line and leaving a
neat edge. You will find such an edge on most seams of most modern garments. The
over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a
period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying.

Suzi

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Re: [h-cost] Toyota sergers

[Zuzana Kraemerova]

Yeah, I didn't say that clear - she thought if the serger was for such a low 
price, she could buy both serger and a regular sewing machine. I think Janome 
has some cheap but quality machines - or she could get one old straight stitch 
machine - these are the best:-)

Zuzana


  
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