[Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
I make  considerable use of genealogy data which these days is more
often that not provided on CD in PDF format rather than online. 

It has cost me quite a bit over the years to get these CDs. The first
edition of Berks FHS Baptisms @ £20 which I received two days ago is an
example, next year there will be a second edition to get as there
are lots of parishes missing! 

For quite a few years I've used (non-free) acroread to access these
files quite simply because the free readers (evince, xpdf, et al)  just
aint good enough.

Acroread allows me to open files in multiple tabs which is fairly
important to me as I'm always needing to access baptism, marriages
and burials for a any particular parish at the same time. The
alternatives don't seem to be able to do this.

The problem is that acroread is a 32 bit application and Debian Sid
seems to be having problems with 32 bit libs at the moment with the
result that I cannot re-install acroread from the Debian multimedia
site. Nor can I install the deb which can be downloaded from Adobe.

It fails with this error

> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of adobereader-enu:
>  adobereader-enu depends on libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.4); however:
>   Package libgtk2.0-0:i386 is not installed.
> 
> dpkg: error processing adobereader-enu (--install):
>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
> Processing triggers for man-db ...
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  adobereader-enu

and it isn't possible to install libgtk2.0-0:i386 as trying to do so
requires installation of 55 other packages but that throws up another
error

> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> libc6 : Breaks: libc6:i386 (!= 2.17-2) but 2.17-1 is to be installed.
> libc6:i386 : Breaks: libc6 (!= 2.17-1) but 2.17-2 is installed.

I'm not sure how to get around this problem.

It isn't the first time I've had problems using 32 bit libs on a 64 bit
system but in the past I've been able to find a solution. I lost the 32
bit libs by a bit of careless clicking whilst doing an update ;-(

For the moment acroread is running on my system but without the 32 bit
support libs I don't know how long it will keep going, a reboot is
definitely a no-no at present. 

any suggestions welcome (apart from suggestions I use a free
software package that is!)

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Paul Freeman

On 2013-05-13 12:11, john lewis wrote:


The problem is that acroread is a 32 bit application and Debian Sid
seems to be having problems with 32 bit libs at the moment with the
result that I cannot re-install acroread from the Debian multimedia
site. Nor can I install the deb which can be downloaded from Adobe.



Yes sadly they (Adobe) don't seem to distribute a 64bit native linux 
binary currently.




I'm not sure how to get around this problem.



do you have Google Chrome (not Chromium) installed... its embedded PDF 
viewer is actually by Adobe anyway. try Ctrl+o and open one of the PDF's 
and see if it works. if it does then just open multiple tabs :)


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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:26:51 +0100
Paul Freeman  wrote:

> On 2013-05-13 12:11, john lewis wrote:
> 
> > The problem is that acroread is a 32 bit application and Debian Sid
> > seems to be having problems with 32 bit libs at the moment with the
> > result that I cannot re-install acroread from the Debian multimedia
> > site. Nor can I install the deb which can be downloaded from Adobe.
> >
> 
> Yes sadly they (Adobe) don't seem to distribute a 64bit native linux 
> binary currently.
> 
> >
> > I'm not sure how to get around this problem.
> >
> 
> do you have Google Chrome (not Chromium) installed... its embedded
> PDF viewer is actually by Adobe anyway. try Ctrl+o and open one of
> the PDF's and see if it works. if it does then just open multiple
> tabs :)

I don't really want to get involved with anything from google (other
than the search engine since it is still better than anything else)

I did try adding the pdf plugin to iceweasel but nothing happens when I
try to 'open' a pdf file.

So since I have a mac-mini methinks I'll try acroread on that. 

I already had an oldish version so got the latest (XI) from adobe but
neither the older version nor the latest allow for opening files in
tabs. Why! when the Linux version does. It really makes it so much
easier to look up data when it is in tabs. 

It is quite frustrating trying to navigate around OS/X so I'll only
switch over to using acroread on the mac-mini if acroread on my Sid
system falls over completely.

I think I'll give up computing and convert to making a model railway
layout, it might give more satisfaction  ;-)

  
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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Peter B.
Do foxit  pdf or nitro pdf do anything for Linux?  Maybe try a different
company like that.
Hope this helps
On 13 May 2013 16:43, "john lewis"  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:26:51 +0100
> Paul Freeman  wrote:
>
> > On 2013-05-13 12:11, john lewis wrote:
> >
> > > The problem is that acroread is a 32 bit application and Debian Sid
> > > seems to be having problems with 32 bit libs at the moment with the
> > > result that I cannot re-install acroread from the Debian multimedia
> > > site. Nor can I install the deb which can be downloaded from Adobe.
> > >
> >
> > Yes sadly they (Adobe) don't seem to distribute a 64bit native linux
> > binary currently.
> >
> > >
> > > I'm not sure how to get around this problem.
> > >
> >
> > do you have Google Chrome (not Chromium) installed... its embedded
> > PDF viewer is actually by Adobe anyway. try Ctrl+o and open one of
> > the PDF's and see if it works. if it does then just open multiple
> > tabs :)
>
> I don't really want to get involved with anything from google (other
> than the search engine since it is still better than anything else)
>
> I did try adding the pdf plugin to iceweasel but nothing happens when I
> try to 'open' a pdf file.
>
> So since I have a mac-mini methinks I'll try acroread on that.
>
> I already had an oldish version so got the latest (XI) from adobe but
> neither the older version nor the latest allow for opening files in
> tabs. Why! when the Linux version does. It really makes it so much
> easier to look up data when it is in tabs.
>
> It is quite frustrating trying to navigate around OS/X so I'll only
> switch over to using acroread on the mac-mini if acroread on my Sid
> system falls over completely.
>
> I think I'll give up computing and convert to making a model railway
> layout, it might give more satisfaction  ;-)
>
>
> --
> John Lewis
> Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server
>
> --
> Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk
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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Vic

> For quite a few years I've used (non-free) acroread to access these
> files quite simply because the free readers (evince, xpdf, et al)  just
> aint good enough.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but Free Software is
almost always capable of doing the necessary.

> Acroread allows me to open files in multiple tabs which is fairly
> important to me as I'm always needing to access baptism, marriages
> and burials for a any particular parish at the same time. The
> alternatives don't seem to be able to do this.

I've just tried it with Okular doing the PDF work and Konqueror doing the
tabbed interface. Works beautifully...

> The problem is that acroread is a 32 bit application

The fundamental problem is that acroread is a non-Free application. That
means you are beholden to what Adobe wants to give you. And they don't
want to give you what you want.

>> libc6 : Breaks: libc6:i386 (!= 2.17-2) but 2.17-1 is to be installed.
>> libc6:i386 : Breaks: libc6 (!= 2.17-1) but 2.17-2 is installed.

Once you get to libc dependency issues, it's usually time to give up.

> I'm not sure how to get around this problem.

I have a method, but you won't like it one bit.

> any suggestions welcome (apart from suggestions I use a free
> software package that is!)

Any particular reason you're averse to a Free solution?

Vic.


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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Gordon Scott
On Mon, 2013-05-13 at 17:39 +0100, Vic wrote:

> Any particular reason you're averse to a Free solution?

I don't believe for one minute that John is averse to a free solution.
I think it's justthat, as he said in the first paragraph, "they ain't
good enough"

I agree with him, despite acroread being a bug-ridden pile of
proprietary junk (IMHO).

Your example Okular is good, but try zooming in to read small print or
drawing details on a scalable document or similar and you'll find it
pixelated where acroread renders cleanly. For me that makes Okular
unusable. Last time I tried, all the others had some problem.

Personally I'd love to consign acroread to the skip, but it hasn't
happened yet.

Gordon.


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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Vic

> Your example Okular is good, but try zooming in to read small print or
> drawing details on a scalable document or similar and you'll find it
> pixelated where acroread renders cleanly.

Hmmm. Not seen that yet. Mine seems to zoom in rather nicely...

Vic.

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Philip Stubbs
On 13 May 2013 12:11, john lewis  wrote:
>
> For quite a few years I've used (non-free) acroread to access these
> files quite simply because the free readers (evince, xpdf, et al)  just
> aint good enough.
>

Hi John,

Can I ask, how long since you last tried Evince? I only ask as I used to
feel the same but more recently, I can't complain how it renders PDF. Maybe
it has improved a lot recently and worth looking at again.

For a tabbed viewer, there is qpdfview. I have not used it myself, but it
uses the same libs as evince to render PDF's, so should do just as well.
Maybe worth a try if Acroread dies for good.

Finally, could the windows version of acroread work in Wine?

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Owain Clarke

On 13/05/13 19:59, Philip Stubbs wrote:
Can I ask, how long since you last tried Evince? I only ask as I used 
to feel the same but more recently, I can't complain how it renders 
PDF. Maybe it has improved a lot recently and worth looking at again.


For a tabbed viewer, there is qpdfview. I have not used it myself, but 
it uses the same libs as evince to render PDF's, so should do just as 
well. Maybe worth a try if Acroread dies for good.


Finally, could the windows version of acroread work in Wine?


This is taking it away from the original issue, but I managed perfectly 
well with Evince until I had to read downloaded journal articles which 
were only available for 24 hours.  Evince couldn't cope with this - 
after extensive internet searching I concluded I needed Acroread's 
security features to read the files


Owain

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Alan Pope
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:11:17PM +0100, john lewis wrote:
> For quite a few years I've used (non-free) acroread to access these
> files quite simply because the free readers (evince, xpdf, et al)  just
> aint good enough.
> 

I hear that! I have recently had to install Acrobat on a machine because 
wifey has to maintain some pdf files provided by education boards and no 
other PDF reader works just right, so I feel your pain!

> > dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of adobereader-enu:
> >  adobereader-enu depends on libgtk2.0-0 (>= 2.4); however:
> >   Package libgtk2.0-0:i386 is not installed.
> > 
> > dpkg: error processing adobereader-enu (--install):
> >  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
> > Processing triggers for man-db ...
> > Errors were encountered while processing:
> >  adobereader-enu
> 
> and it isn't possible to install libgtk2.0-0:i386 as trying to do so
> requires installation of 55 other packages but that throws up another
> error
> 
> > The following packages have unmet dependencies:
> > libc6 : Breaks: libc6:i386 (!= 2.17-2) but 2.17-1 is to be installed.
> > libc6:i386 : Breaks: libc6 (!= 2.17-1) but 2.17-2 is installed.
> 

This doesn't look like a problem on your system, but the fact that on 
sid the 64-bit build of libc6 is currently slightly ahead of the 32-bit 
build. You can see this here:-

http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libc6

2.17-2: amd64 armhf powerpc s390 s390x 
2.17-1: armel i386 sparc 

Ok, so what this is telling me is that you have a 64-bit system which 
has libc6:amd64 2.17-2 but you want to pull in the latest libc6:i386 to 
satisfy the dependency for installing the other 32-bit packages (such as 
libgtk2.0-0:i386) which you need for Acrobat.

I see two "solutions" (well there are many solutions, but the two most 
straightforward):-

1. Wait for whatever issue is holding up the 32-bit build of 2.17-2 of 
libc6. 
2. Downgrade libc6:amd64 to 2.17-1 so you can then install libc6:i386 
thus:-

apt-get install libc6:amd64=2.17-1

You can also just "simulate" this operation safely with:-

apt-get install -s libc6:amd64=2.17-1
 
Chances are some other package or two may need to be downgraded also. 
It's only a minor bump so theoretically it should be much to be 
downgraded, and you can do them all in one go with:-

apt-get install libc6:amd64=2.17-1 foo:amd64=1.2.3 bar:amd64=4.5.6

etc (replacing foo and bar with package names and 1.2.3 and 4.5.6 with 
the version numbers apt asks for). Again, use -s to simulate to see if 
it will come up with a sane solution.

Once you've done that you'll have libc6:amd64 on 2.17-1 and can happily 
install libc6:i386 version 2.17-1 too. 

Note: if you "apt-get upgrade" or "dist-upgrade" (or use equivalent 
tools like aptitude or synaptic to effect the same thing) you will end 
up upgrading libc6:amd64 to 2.17-2, or in fact it may just hold that 
back because you also need libc6:i386 to be held back for the acrobat 
dependency to fulfil. 


> It isn't the first time I've had problems using 32 bit libs on a 64 bit
> system but in the past I've been able to find a solution. I lost the 32
> bit libs by a bit of careless clicking whilst doing an update ;-(
> 

Now we're in a new multiarch world you should be able to install 
individual 32-bit libraries as required. The skew you're seeing is the 
pitfall of running sid I fear. 

Hope that helps.
Al.


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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
On Mon, 13 May 2013 21:14:11 +0100
Alan Pope  wrote:

> This doesn't look like a problem on your system, but the fact that on 
> sid the 64-bit build of libc6 is currently slightly ahead of the
> 32-bit build. You can see this here:-
> 
> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libc6
> 
> 2.17-2: amd64 armhf powerpc s390 s390x 
> 2.17-1: armel i386 sparc 
> 
> Ok, so what this is telling me is that you have a 64-bit system which 
> has libc6:amd64 2.17-2 but you want to pull in the latest libc6:i386
> to satisfy the dependency for installing the other 32-bit packages
> (such as libgtk2.0-0:i386) which you need for Acrobat.
> 
> I see two "solutions" (well there are many solutions, but the two
> most straightforward):-
> 
> 1. Wait for whatever issue is holding up the 32-bit build of 2.17-2
> of libc6. 
> 2. Downgrade libc6:amd64 to 2.17-1 so you can then install libc6:i386 
> thus:-
> 
> apt-get install libc6:amd64=2.17-1
> 
> You can also just "simulate" this operation safely with:-
> 
> apt-get install -s libc6:amd64=2.17-1
>  
> Chances are some other package or two may need to be downgraded also. 
> It's only a minor bump so theoretically it should be much to be 
> downgraded, and you can do them all in one go with:-
> 
> apt-get install libc6:amd64=2.17-1 foo:amd64=1.2.3 bar:amd64=4.5.6
> 
> etc (replacing foo and bar with package names and 1.2.3 and 4.5.6
> with the version numbers apt asks for). Again, use -s to simulate to
> see if it will come up with a sane solution.
> 
> Once you've done that you'll have libc6:amd64 on 2.17-1 and can
> happily install libc6:i386 version 2.17-1 too. 
> 
> Note: if you "apt-get upgrade" or "dist-upgrade" (or use equivalent 
> tools like aptitude or synaptic to effect the same thing) you will
> end up upgrading libc6:amd64 to 2.17-2, or in fact it may just hold
> that back because you also need libc6:i386 to be held back for the
> acrobat dependency to fulfil. 

Thanks Alan, if the libc mismatch doesn't get sorted soon I'll try your
suggestions
 
> Now we're in a new multiarch world you should be able to install 
> individual 32-bit libraries as required. The skew you're seeing is
> the pitfall of running sid I fear. 

True, and there have been a lot of upgrades since the release of wheezy
so I suppose it is inevitable things will break. Mostly though sid is
pretty stable in actual use and it doesn't justify its other name.

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
On Mon, 13 May 2013 17:04:28 +0100
"Peter B."  wrote:

> Do foxit  pdf or nitro pdf do anything for Linux?  Maybe try a
> different company like that.

it looks like both are windows only but thanks for the suggestion, I
hadn't heard of either before.

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
On Mon, 13 May 2013 17:39:17 +0100 (BST)
"Vic"  wrote:

> I've just tried it with Okular doing the PDF work and Konqueror doing
> the tabbed interface. Works beautifully...

Don't both these need lots of KDE libs, I try to avoid mixing apps from
Gnome & Kde based distros
> 
> > The problem is that acroread is a 32 bit application
> 
> The fundamental problem is that acroread is a non-Free application.
> That means you are beholden to what Adobe wants to give you. And they
> don't want to give you what you want.

There is a possible long term problem with the way Adobe is looking at
providing software and it is possible acroread will vanish into the
'clouds.

> Any particular reason you're averse to a Free solution?

No providing there is one that will give me the functionality I need. I
wouldn't ever need the spreadsheet from MS Office for example because
libreoffice is quite good enough for my simple needs.

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Re: [Hampshire] Advice please: disk bottle neck

2013-05-13 Thread Peter Salisbury
Hi everyone,

Just to resurrect this thread and let you know what happened.

I tried rsyncing the contents of my system partition to a new
partition on the same disk and surprisingly that gave a significant
speed-up, around 10-20% at a guess. This is with ext4 fs. Not sure why
that would be, but perhaps different placement on the platter meant
less head movement, or defragmentation if that affects ext4?

THEN I splashed out £40 at eBuyer for a 60GB OCZ SSD. I put the old
system disk into an external caddy on USB with all my data, so the SSD
is just for the system. Wow! Start-up times for the computer and for
applications are fantastic (about 45 seconds from power on to using
firefox, of which the first 10s or so are for POST and grub, compared
with over 2 minutes total before). The CPU is now maxed out (all four
cores) and the disk activity indicator hardly flickers.

Time will tell if reliability is a problem, but I figure that keeping
my precious data on the original spinning medium lessens the impact of
SSD failure (plus everything is kept backed up to another disk and to
Wuala anyway).

CONCLUSION: £40 well spent!!

HTH, Peter

On 14 March 2013 22:39, Peter Salisbury
 wrote:
> Well I've been looking at iotop when things are lagging and there
> isn't really anything surprising going on. I do have a couple of
> things causing a fairly constant low level of disk activity (around 1%
> iowait) which are java (for Wuala cloud storage) and jbd2 (the ext4
> filing system house keeping daemon). I put a commit=15 onto my fstab
> entry and that reduced jbd2 quite a bit.
>
> Looks like a faster disk might be the only way out!
>
> Thanks again for all the suggestions.
>
> ATB, Peter
>
> On 14 March 2013 08:30, Michael Pavling  wrote:
>> On 13 March 2013 21:57, Paul Stimpson  wrote:
>>>
>>> >Maybe a good cheap quiet boot device for an Openelec media player
>>> >though?
>>> >(assuming the media files are on a server somewhere else in the
>>> >house...)
>>> >
>>>
>>> An OpenElec machine will keep its database and all the downloaded movie
>>> and album art on the boot volume so you do want something quite spritely if
>>> you don't want the GUI to be chunky. I got a 64GB SanDisk SATA SSD from
>>> Novatech for mine for about £40.
>>>
>>
>> The DB can be anywhere (I share a MySQL DB between three XBMC boxes at
>> home), and with a little fiddling, so can the artwork. And if, as he says,
>> it's only "slightly worse", it won't be clunky...
>> But yeah, given the price of a 32GB CF card against a 'proper' SSD hard
>> drive, there doesn't seem to be much sense in setting out to build with
>> that. But if the bits were all spare in a box, I'd not hesitate to use them.
>>
>>
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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
On Mon, 13 May 2013 19:59:33 +0100
Philip Stubbs  wrote:

> Can I ask, how long since you last tried Evince? I only ask as I used
> to feel the same but more recently, I can't complain how it renders
> PDF. Maybe it has improved a lot recently and worth looking at again.

I tried it today and it doesn't do tabs. 

> For a tabbed viewer, there is qpdfview. I have not used it myself,
> but it uses the same libs as evince to render PDF's, so should do
> just as well. Maybe worth a try if Acroread dies for good.

qpdfview is a new one to me, I guess because I haven't needed to look
for an alternative to acroread. I'll have a look

Having installed it and open just three pdf files I don't think it will
be good enough for the size of files I have to access. It seems to have
given up on the Berkshire Baptisms file which runs to over 47,000 pages
and even worse it has deleted acroread so I'm really stuffed. 

I had tried to install AdbeRdr9.5.4-1_i386linux_enu.deb with dpkg -i
but this had failed with dependency problems, Installing qpdfview
resultes in 

> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>  adobereader-enu:i386 : Depends: libgtk2.0-0:i386 (>= 2.4) but it is
> not going to be installed. The following actions will resolve these
> dependencies:

 >   Remove the following packages:
1) adobereader-enu:i386

I allowed this thinking it was only going to remove the partially
installed package I'd tried to install with dpkg but it seems to have
done more than that.  

> Finally, could the windows version of acroread work in Wine?

No idea, most things I have tried to run under wine haven't been
supported but I haven't tried to use wine for several years at least so
maybe it would work.


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Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
On Mon, 13 May 2013 22:30:46 +0100
john lewis  wrote:

> qpdfview is a new one to me, I guess because I haven't needed to look
> for an alternative to acroread. I'll have a look
> 
> Having installed it and open just three pdf files I don't think it
> will be good enough for the size of files I have to access. It seems
> to have given up on the Berkshire Baptisms file which runs to over
> 47,000 pages

qpdfview seems to have come to terms with the size of the Baptisms file
and I've even found out how to open the navigation side bar that is
essential for finding the different parishes.

So far I have only opened files in three tabs but I normally have eight
open at once and often more so it will be interesting to see how it
works out in 'real life' use.

Duh! switching between tabs is so slooow and the screen has now gone
blank. It came back after several minutes but that will be a pain if
it does it all the time 

I don't have much choice though so will have to persist ;-(  

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John Lewis
Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread Tim

On 13/05/13 21:50, john lewis wrote:

On Mon, 13 May 2013 17:04:28 +0100
"Peter B."  wrote:


Do foxit  pdf or nitro pdf do anything for Linux?  Maybe try a
different company like that.

it looks like both are windows only but thanks for the suggestion, I
hadn't heard of either before.


There is a foxit linux version

Go to the web site below

http://www.foxitsoftware.com/downloads/

Under PDF Reader

There is Foxit Reader and on the right click the down arrow to change 
from Windows to desktop linux


Then click the download button and choose deb as your package type

Have to be honest not tried it myself

Hope it helps

Tim

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread john lewis
On Mon, 13 May 2013 22:59:34 +0100
Tim  wrote:

> On 13/05/13 21:50, john lewis wrote:
> > On Mon, 13 May 2013 17:04:28 +0100
> > "Peter B."  wrote:
> >
> >> Do foxit  pdf or nitro pdf do anything for Linux?  Maybe try a
> >> different company like that.
> > it looks like both are windows only but thanks for the suggestion, I
> > hadn't heard of either before.
> >
> There is a foxit linux version
> 
> Go to the web site below
> 
> http://www.foxitsoftware.com/downloads/
> 
> Under PDF Reader
> 
> There is Foxit Reader and on the right click the down arrow to change 
> from Windows to desktop linux

Thanks Tim, too late tonite to give it a try but will have a look
tomorrow.


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John Lewis
Debian & the GeneWeb genealogical data server

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Re: [Hampshire] Accessing genealogy data on PDF files

2013-05-13 Thread James Courtier-Dutton
If the pdf is large, you can always cut it up into more than one file.
Is it text searchable, or is it scanned pages?
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