Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
I have a tv set which is connected to a satellite dish and tuner and is capable of receiving only German tv. How does that fit into all this? Chris. Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
I have a tv set which is connected to a satellite dish and tuner and is capable of receiving only German tv. How does that fit into all this? Chris. I *think* that this still requires a license. In the UK you need a license to watch live TV, regardless of the source. I guess this would be similar to what SKY wanted to do, which was not include any BBC TV and hence allow it's subscribers not to pay a TV license fee. It hasn't worked for SKY so I guess the same argument would be true for German satellite TV, it isn't quite the same but I'm sure the TV licensing people would say it was. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
Stephen Rowles wrote: I have a tv set which is connected to a satellite dish and tuner and is capable of receiving only German tv. How does that fit into all this? Chris. I *think* that this still requires a license. In the UK you need a license to watch live TV, regardless of the source. I guess this would be similar to what SKY wanted to do, which was not include any BBC TV and hence allow it's subscribers not to pay a TV license fee. From the receipt for my license (Jan 2009) What is a TV License needed for? A. To use any **TV equipment** such as a TV set, digital box, video or DVD recorder, computer or mobile phone to watch or record TV programmes as they are being shown on television. It hasn't worked for SKY so I guess the same argument would be true for German satellite TV, it isn't quite the same but I'm sure the TV licensing people would say it was. -- Life is too short. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:39:09 + Chris Dennis cgden...@btinternet.com wrote: Hello folks I know this was discussed last year, but a non-TV-owning client has just asked me whether he needs a BBC licence to use iPlayer, and I was surprised to find this page at http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/channels/television/iplayer.shtml which implies that he does. It says The TV programmes are free for UK licence fee payers, at high quality and with no advertising. You need a TV License to watch TV programmes as they're being broadcast over the air - this means that you DON'T need one to watch iPlayer, but you DO need one to watch the Live Streaming bit of iPlayer (because it's simulcast). Same with any other method of simulcasting. IANAL/etc. and the TV License fee people don't tend to listen to reason (or the law, or their own guidelines, etc.) so if he's at all worried, I'd just stump up the fee. Cheers, Jon (The views in this email are my own, and do not constitute legal advice. My employer had nothing to do with the content of this email, and their views may differ from those expressed in this mail. Although, in reality they probably don't have any views on this particular subject - just don't complain to them if you don't agree with me, OK? :) -- Jon Fautley RHCE, RHCDS, RHCX, RHCA email: jfaut...@redhat.com Senior Consultantcell : +44 7841 558683 Global Professional Services Red Hat UK, 200 Fowler Avenue, Farnborough, Hampshire, GU14 7JP signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
Jon Fautley wrote: IANAL/etc. and the TV License fee people don't tend to listen to reason (or the law, or their own guidelines, etc.) so if he's at all worried, I'd just stump up the fee. I am one of the hold-outs. Our TV died over a year ago and we decided not to renew the licence. TV licencing send automated nastygrams threating imminent court action but some nice web sites break these letters down and explain your rights. We had the Investigation officer around with his 'almost police' uniform :-) but I think two snarling GSDs behind a child gate put paid to any the idea of forcing entry. IMHO you should *NOT* stump up a fee just because some private company threatens you for no good reason.Hell 139.50 will buy a nice new linux PC! Jacqui -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:31:39 + Jacqui Caren jacqui.ca...@ntlworld.com wrote: I am one of the hold-outs. Our TV died over a year ago and we decided not to renew the licence. TV licencing send automated nastygrams threating imminent court action but some nice web sites break these letters down and explain your rights. We had the Investigation officer around with his 'almost police' uniform :-) but I think two snarling GSDs behind a child gate put paid to any the idea of forcing entry. Same here - I don't have a TV since I moved house about 18 months ago. I have no intention of getting a TV, either. I regularly get threatening letters from the TV Licensing people, which get immediately binned :) I'm yet to have a visit from the enforcement division - which is a shame because I know exactly what I'm going to say to them if they ever turn up ;) IMHO you should *NOT* stump up a fee just because some private company threatens you for no good reason.Hell 139.50 will buy a nice new linux PC! No, I agree - not something I'd do :) However, it would mean that the OP wouldn't need to worry about what he was watching on iPlayer. I also suspect that depending on how you phrase I watch iPlayer to an enforcement officer could open you up to prosecution. Some people would consider £139.50 cheap for a quiet life (but not me) ;) Cheers, /j -- Jon Fautley RHCE, RHCDS, RHCX, RHCA email: jfaut...@redhat.com Senior Consultantcell : +44 7841 558683 Global Professional Services Red Hat UK, 200 Fowler Avenue, Farnborough, Hampshire, GU14 7JP signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:31:39 + Jacqui Caren jacqui.ca...@ntlworld.com wrote: I am one of the hold-outs. Our TV died over a year ago and we decided not to renew the licence. TV licencing send automated nastygrams threating imminent court action but some nice web sites break these letters down and explain your rights. We had the Investigation officer around with his 'almost police' uniform :-) but I think two snarling GSDs behind a child gate put paid to any the idea of forcing entry. Same here - I don't have a TV since I moved house about 18 months ago. I have no intention of getting a TV, either. I regularly get threatening letters from the TV Licensing people, which get immediately binned :) I'm yet to have a visit from the enforcement division - which is a shame because I know exactly what I'm going to say to them if they ever turn up ;) As I posted before, but I will post again just to add some balance. My previous experience is that if you open the and read the letters, contact the TV licensing people and explain that you either a) don't have a TV or b) have a TV but don't watch live TV (e.g. only watch DVD's or Videos and it isn't connected to a TV aerial) Then they accept it and leave you alone. No more wasted trees on threatening letters and no investigation officers coming to your door. Before we were married my wife had a TV video combo but didn't have an aerial and just watched Videos from the Library / Purchases. She contacted the TV licensing people and told them, no more letters or contact. Simple as that. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
Hello folks I know this was discussed last year, but a non-TV-owning client has just asked me whether he needs a BBC licence to use iPlayer, and I was surprised to find this page at http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/channels/television/iplayer.shtml which implies that he does. It says The TV programmes are free for UK licence fee payers, at high quality and with no advertising. On the other hand, the iplayer terms and conditions at http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/about_iplayer/termscon make no mention of the BBC licence fee. It's all rather confusing really. Maybe the government should admit the the licence fee is really a tax that they expect everyone to pay, and give up the charade about the BBC being independent. This link from the iPlayer site seems to sum it up quite nicely: http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/about_iplayer/tvlicence Catch-up: No license needed Live online (simulcasting): License required. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
contact the TV licensing people and explain that you either a) don't have a TV or b) have a TV but don't watch live TV (e.g. only watch DVD's or Videos and it isn't connected to a TV aerial) Then they accept it and leave you alone. They don't seem so accepting of the We've got a licence explanation, though. I used to live in a flat with my other half. The TV licence was in her name. I bought a STB, and filled in the appropriate documentation - cue several threatening letters and phone calls. Even though they knew we were in a flat, they wouldn't accept that the flat hadn't been sub-divided into sub-flats, and thus need a licence each :-( Then we moved. A few weeks later, one of their blokes is on the doorstep insisting we were watching TV illegally, as we didn't have a licence. Yes we do, was my simple reply. After a few minutes of back-and-forth, he rang his office - who confirmed that we did indeed have a licence... I wonder how many people with a less bellicose attitude than mine get brow-beaten into paying for a licence they don't need? Vic. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
Stephen Rowles wrote: Hello folks I know this was discussed last year, but a non-TV-owning client has just asked me whether he needs a BBC licence to use iPlayer, and I was surprised to find this page at http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/channels/television/iplayer.shtml which implies that he does. It says The TV programmes are free for UK licence fee payers, at high quality and with no advertising. On the other hand, the iplayer terms and conditions at http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/about_iplayer/termscon make no mention of the BBC licence fee. It's all rather confusing really. Maybe the government should admit the the licence fee is really a tax that they expect everyone to pay, and give up the charade about the BBC being independent. This link from the iPlayer site seems to sum it up quite nicely: http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/about_iplayer/tvlicence Catch-up: No license needed Live online (simulcasting): License required. Thanks for that -- and to all those who replied. I'm glad it provoked some lively discussion. cheers Chris -- Chris Dennis cgden...@btinternet.com Fordingbridge, Hampshire, UK -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wednesday 25 March 2009 14:57:10 Jon Fautley wrote: as they don't understand the prospect of purchasing TV receiving equipment and not using it yourself... And they definitely don't understand the concept of Not Owning A Televison (shock, horror). Lisi -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wednesday 25 March 2009 13:45:52 Stephen Rowles wrote: As I posted before, but I will post again just to add some balance. My previous experience is that if you open the and read the letters, contact the TV licensing people and explain that you either a) don't have a TV or b) have a TV but don't watch live TV (e.g. only watch DVD's or Videos and it isn't connected to a TV aerial) Then they accept it and leave you alone. No more wasted trees on threatening letters and no investigation officers coming to your door. Neither my experience nor my husband's (when we lived separately before we were married). We got endless threatening letters, to all of which we replied explaining that we didn't have a TV. Finally I wrote and said that that was the last time I would reply to one of their nasty letters, the rest would be binned. I binned everything else they sent me. But no enforcement officer turned up - at least, not when I was in. Admittedly, this was a while ago. We must have been lucky, I was surprised it worked but I thought I should mention that at least some times it does :). I wonder what other legal options you could take, seems to me that the constant letters when you have explained could be harassment. I wonder if you could take out a restraining order or similar? Possibly it might even now be an offence under the data protection act as they are incorrectly processing your details. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:04:35 - (GMT) Vic l...@beer.org.uk wrote: contact the TV licensing people and explain that you either a) don't have a TV or b) have a TV but don't watch live TV (e.g. only watch DVD's or Videos and it isn't connected to a TV aerial) I have arrived at the simple solution - get old!! -- John Lewis -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
--- On Wed, 25/3/09, john lewis johnle...@hantslug.org.uk wrote: I have arrived at the simple solution - get old!! I'm doing my very best :) A few years ago when i lived in a place called Basingstoke, I had threat letters almost every week. After some time, i phoned the license department and told them i didn't have a TV and that i was quite annoyed and that i felt harassed. I asked them if a license was needed to watch DVD's on my computer, they said as long as it had no way to receive a television signal. No more letters while at that address. In late 2005 I moved to London. Within 3 days a license 'enforcer' was on my doorstep. I explained that i didn't have a television, and that i'd called the license dept. from my previous address. He asked to enter my house to check, i said no and asked him to make a record that i declined, and that i was not happy. No more letters, even after moving house again. Isaac. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
2009/3/25 john lewis johnle...@hantslug.org.uk: On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:04:35 - (GMT) Vic l...@beer.org.uk wrote: contact the TV licensing people and explain that you either a) don't have a TV or b) have a TV but don't watch live TV (e.g. only watch DVD's or Videos and it isn't connected to a TV aerial) I have arrived at the simple solution - get old!! -- John Lewis Me too. Unfortunately there are more negatives than positives. Clive Woodfine -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wednesday 25 March 2009 18:42:06 Clive Woodfine wrote: 2009/3/25 john lewis johnle...@hantslug.org.uk: On Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:04:35 - (GMT) Vic l...@beer.org.uk wrote: contact the TV licensing people and explain that you either a) don't have a TV or b) have a TV but don't watch live TV (e.g. only watch DVD's or Videos and it isn't connected to a TV aerial) I have arrived at the simple solution - get old!! -- John Lewis Me too. Unfortunately there are more negatives than positives. It also works if it is your spouse who gets old. ;-) But I agree about the negatives, on his behalf. I'm sure he would happily give away his free TV license if it would turn the clock back a bit! Lisi -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] iplayer and BBC licence fees (again)
On Wednesday 25 March 2009 20:02:13 Lisi wrote: license Ouch :-( licence Lisi -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
