[Hardhats-members] Test, please ignore
Just a test, please ignore. TIA. --- Crawford --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: Test, please ignore
OK. But don't be a stranger. OK? :-) Kevin On 9/19/05, Crawford Rainwater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a test, please ignore. TIA. --- Crawford --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Flow sheets
Would those of you who have flow sheets that are used by users or potential users of VistA or VistA-Office be good enough to forward me copies? If you do not have them in electronic format, contact me off the list and I will make arrangements to send you an envelope for sending them to me in. We are trying to determine the range of issues these present for duplicating their functionality in VistA. Any help you can give me would be appreciated. Those of you working in hospitals with ICUs, etc., that use them, I would appreciate your input as well. If you have a non-scanned computer based solution that is being used in VA hospitals, I would appreciate knowing the details of your system. Thanks in advance. -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Vista help
Hi my name is Samuel. And i want to know how i assign a WARD LOCATION because when i will assign a bed to a patient it always ask me that and i don't know any ward location. Also when i try to assign the beds to patients it tell me something about the PTF. This is the message about the ptf: __ Select ADMISSION DATE: SEP 19,[EMAIL PROTECTED]:23// WARNING: This admission has no corresponding PTF record. A PTF record is required in order to continue processing this movement activity. If you have the PTF option called Establish PTF record from Past Admission on your menu, it may be used to create the PTF record for this admission. Otherwise appropriate Medical Information Section (MIS) personnel and/or your supervisor will need to be notified that the PTF record is missing as soon as possible in order to continue processing this movement. Thanks, Samuel __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: VistA Community Meeting in October
I am looking at purchasing tickets for this conference. Should the arrival airport be Baltimore/Washington (code BWI) or just WashingtonDC (code WAS). And are the dates certain? There is not mention of the conference on the WorldVistA Event calendar. Kevin On 9/16/05, Maury Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Mike Lieman Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] VistA Community Meeting in October On 9/15/05, Maury Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: VistA Community Meeting -- October 28 to 30 in Washington, DC Friday to Sunday? YES. (There will be an announcement shortly about an event for VistA vendors the two preceding days.) --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: VistA Community Meeting in October
What airport is that? I haven't been out to the DC area for a few years, but the last time I was there, the major airports were Baltimore (BWI) Dulles (IAD) (Ronald Reagan) National (DCA) === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Sep 19, 2005, at 10:26 AM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: I am looking at purchasing tickets for this conference. Should the arrival airport be Baltimore/Washington (code BWI) or just WashingtonDC (code WAS). And are the dates certain? There is not mention of the conference on the WorldVistA Event calendar. Kevin --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] RPC Broker protocol
I'm interested in building a Java RPC broker interface (similar to the Win32 RPC Broker dll) for use in building VistA client applications (such as web services) running on the linux OS. Has anyone already written such an interface? Does anyone know of RPC Broker communication protocol documentation? That is, documentation of what the RPC Broker's TCP/IP listener expects over the wire? Who ever wrote the Win32 dll was privy to this info. Is it already available, or is a FOIA request required? Thanks very much. -James Lane --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
1) There are several major commercial EHRs that use MUMPS. In fact, the language was developed expressly FOR the health care environment. There are far more limitations (and serious ones at that) in most other languages and especially strict SQL. 2) While MUMPS has been characterized as hierarchical, the DBMS that VistA uses, VA FileMan, provides what is more accurately characterized as a polymorphic view of the database. One can readily use relational projections (indeed there are commercial add-ons that give a strict SQL view of the database). The more advantageous view through VA FileMan is more like an object view of the data with abstract data types being highly specialized for optimal use and performance. End users usually need not care (except that performance of VA FileMan is demonstrably superior (there are published reports) to SQL on the same hardware and configuration.) 3) Learning MUMPS is as simple as learning BASIC. Learning about all the utilities and capabilities of the common services in VistA is a years long process. And learning the functionality and setup for the clinical and administrative functions in VistA would probably take several life-times. Are there enough experienced programmers and application consultants? So far I believe you'll currently pay more for a Java programmer. 4) Expect a long learning curve. Get help. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew King Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:59 AM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] Here are some recurrent questions us nontechies have about VistA: 1) Is Mumps a serious limitation to complete EHR functionality, code maintainence, HL7, or PMS interfacing? 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should we even care? If so why?) 3)How hard is it for non-Mumps IT personnel to learn Mumps/VistA and are there enough experienced VistA programmers (or former VistA programmers) to consult or be hired to non-VA projects? 4) What other concerns should we have regarding adopting VistA? I can add the answers to the Wiki. Thanks in advance, Matt King, MD -Original Message- From: John Leo Zimmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:25 AM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] I added this link last night to a new section of the WorldVistA Wiki in response to Matthew King's query. Another section should probably be added with a more general emphasis... But we should be carefull to avoid too many empty slots. How about a FAQ for VistA Myth vs Fact? FHM (Frequently Heard Misinformation) -- Original Message --- From: John Leo Zimmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:52:22 -0500 Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] web evaluation tool So here is a new Wiki page (tabula rasa for the moment) for Community Health Centers: (You may need to cut and past the full link) http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.?title=Main_Page#Collaborat ion_Tools Regards, JohnLeo Zimmer, MD, MA, ABFP Council Bluffs Community Health Centers --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
Actually, as hinted in a previous post, SQL is more or less free of limitations of the type you describe by definition, because it is a non-procedural language! Now, SQL implementations, well, that's another story. :-) Actually, though, Fileman is an interesting mix of procedural and non- procedural constructs, and really is closer to the relational model than the hierarchical model. Consider, for example, the analogy between the search functionality in Fileman and SQL queries. Fileman actually DOES implement the full relational algebra, but it allows the programmer to explicitly traverse containment hierarchies and, in that sense, it is not relational. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] The policy of being too cautious is the greatest risk of all. --Jawaharlal Nehru On Sep 19, 2005, at 11:29 AM, Cameron Schlehuber wrote: 1) There are several major commercial EHRs that use MUMPS. In fact, the language was developed expressly FOR the health care environment. There are far more limitations (and serious ones at that) in most other languages and especially strict SQL. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] RPC Broker protocol
I believe VistALink version 1.0 is what you are looking for. VistALink version 1.5 is going in a different direction. I don't know what the availability of documentation is. David I'm interested in building a Java RPC broker interface (similar to the Win32 RPC Broker dll) for use in building VistA client applications (such as web services) running on the linux OS. Has anyone already written such an interface? Does anyone know of RPC Broker communication protocol documentation? That is, documentation of what the RPC Broker's TCP/IP listener expects over the wire? Who ever wrote the Win32 dll was privy to this info. Is it already available, or is a FOIA request required? Thanks very much. -James Lane --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
I agree with Cameron's message, but I'll add my two cents worth: 1) Is Mumps a serious limitation to complete EHR functionality, code maintainence, HL7, or PMS interfacing? Absolutely not. I will go one step further than Cameron. I have heard that M is the #1 language used for EHR's. Epicare, which just contracted for EHR for Kaiser, is based on M, for example. 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should we even care? If so why?) Another difference is the way the data is stored. M data is stored in b-trees, as compared to flat tables (I believe). This leads to faster data acess, and less CPU power needed. Also, the database in M is called by some a sparce array. This means that there are no blank spaces left for data to be later filled into. So with M, if there is no data present, then no space is wasted. I find this to lead to many many fields being defined for a given file. With a traditional database, having all these fields with empty/wasted space, would lead to huge database files. But with M, one can can store years of patient information on a relatively small disk. 3)How hard is it for non-Mumps IT personnel to learn Mumps/VistA and are there enough experienced VistA programmers (or former VistA programmers) to consult or be hired to non-VA projects? I am a physician and have taught myself M. It is a very simple language. I consider it to be a scripting language. But it gets the job done, and has run hospitals safely for decades. There are many people on the list that would like work as programmers, so I don't think there will be any limitation there. And when CMS releases VistAOffice, there should be even more interest and consultants available. 4) What other concerns should we have regarding adopting VistA? I think a factor here is how much you want to put into the system. It is not turn key at this point, although there are installers who can do the work for you. It is not going to have all the bells and whistles that commercial EMR's want you to pay for. It is not currently integrated with a billing system or a system for appointments. Hope that helps. Kevin On 9/19/05, Cameron Schlehuber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) There are several major commercial EHRs that use MUMPS. In fact, the language was developed expressly FOR the health care environment. There are far more limitations (and serious ones at that) in most other languages and especially strict SQL. 2) While MUMPS has been characterized as hierarchical, the DBMS that VistA uses, VA FileMan, provides what is more accurately characterized as a polymorphic view of the database. One can readily use relational projections (indeed there are commercial add-ons that give a strict SQL view of the database). The more advantageous view through VA FileMan is more like an object view of the data with abstract data types being highly specialized for optimal use and performance. End users usually need not care (except that performance of VA FileMan is demonstrably superior (there are published reports) to SQL on the same hardware and configuration.) 3) Learning MUMPS is as simple as learning BASIC. Learning about all the utilities and capabilities of the common services in VistA is a years long process. And learning the functionality and setup for the clinical and administrative functions in VistA would probably take several life-times. Are there enough experienced programmers and application consultants? So far I believe you'll currently pay more for a Java programmer. 4) Expect a long learning curve. Get help. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew King Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 10:59 AM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] Here are some recurrent questions us nontechies have about VistA: 1) Is Mumps a serious limitation to complete EHR functionality, code maintainence, HL7, or PMS interfacing? 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should we even care? If so why?) 3)How hard is it for non-Mumps IT personnel to learn Mumps/VistA and are there enough experienced VistA programmers (or former VistA programmers) to consult or be hired to non-VA projects? 4) What other concerns should we have regarding adopting VistA? I can add the answers to the Wiki. Thanks in advance, Matt King, MD -Original Message- From: John Leo Zimmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:25 AM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] I added this link last night to a new section of the WorldVistA Wiki in response to
[Hardhats-members] Re: Test, please ignore
Actually, SourceForge for some odd reason has been blocking my posts for the past several months. I finally gave in and talked to Greg Kreis who pointed me to the SF folks to finally get this corrected. Part of this was switching static IPs initially, then swapping out ISP's entirely later. During this time though, yes, I received everyone's email in digest form (luckily) and tried to reply to a few of them, but...alas, couldn't. So now you do have to put up with me once again. ;-) --- Crawford -- The Linux ETC Company 368 South McCaslin Boulevard P.M.B. 146 Louisville, CO 80027 USA +1 (303) 604-2550 (voice) +1 (866) 604-2550 (toll free within the US) +1 (303) 664-0036 (fax) http://www.linux-etc.com On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 11:30 -0700, hardhats-members- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 5 Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:34:19 -0400 From: Kevin Toppenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Re: Test, please ignore Reply-To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net OK. But don't be a stranger. OK? :-) Kevin On 9/19/05, Crawford Rainwater [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a test, please ignore. =20 TIA. =20 --- Crawford =20 =20 =20 --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: Vista help
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Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
The problem is actually a little more subtle than that: The basic problem is not one of wasted space. Think of a much simpler abstraction, the file. When it is initially created, it may or may not be allocated as a contiguous block (we'll ignore issues such as striping). What happens if you come along with vim and insert a sentence in the middle of the file. If there is no room in an allocated block, it will be necessary to split the file, essentially breaking it up into blocks linked by pointers. This storage model may be suitable for most files (e.g., executables that are created once by the compiler), but not suitable for databases that need to support inserts. What a B-tree does is provide a data structure that minimizes the cost of this splitting. If you're familiar with heaps, or just balanced binary trees, you've already seen the basic idea. You can maintain a sorted list as binary tree, so that average search time is approximately log n, rathe than n (binary vs. linear search). But after many updates, the tree can become unbalanced, in the extreme, just turning into another linear list. There are various data structures like red-black trees that can be used to keep the tree balanced by stopping to shift nodes around. But that's not really practical for a database, either. What B-trees do is generalize this approach by replacing binary trees with trees in which a single node may have many children. This adds a fair amount of complexity, but it really cuts down on the overhead, making it practical to maintain much larger data structures without sacrificing (too much) efficiency. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking. -- Albert Einstein On Sep 19, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: Also, the database in M is called by some a sparce array. This means that there are no blank spaces left for data to be later filled into. So with M, if there is no data present, then no space is wasted. I find this to lead to many many fields being defined for a given file. With a traditional database, having all these fields with empty/wasted space, would lead to huge database files. But with M, one can can store years of patient information on a relatively small disk. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
So then, is the argument that relational databases store empty space incorrect? Kevin On 9/19/05, Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is actually not true. flat tables are the abstraction presented to the user (or programmer) with relational databases, but the underlying storage model is, more likely than not, based on B-trees, just as it is in MUMPS. This can be confusing, because the basic abstraction presented to the user in MUMPS is multi-branching trees, but that abstraction is not the same as the underlying storage model. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible. --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) On Sep 19, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should we even care? If so why?) Another difference is the way the data is stored. M data is stored in b-trees, as compared to flat tables (I believe). This leads to faster data acess, and less CPU power needed. Also, the database in M is called by some a sparce array. This means that there are no blank spaces left for data to be later filled into. So with M, if there is no data present, then no space is wasted. I find this to lead to many many fields being defined for a given file. With a traditional database, having all these fields with empty/wasted space, would lead to huge database files. But with M, one can can store years of patient information on a relatively small disk. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
Many relational databases do waste space, but since even M databases can project a SQL view (relation), that argument may not always be accurate. In my opinion it's misleading for folks to claim that VistA is hierarchical and therefore cannot project a relational view. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Toppenberg Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:37 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] So then, is the argument that relational databases store empty space incorrect? Kevin On 9/19/05, Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is actually not true. flat tables are the abstraction presented to the user (or programmer) with relational databases, but the underlying storage model is, more likely than not, based on B-trees, just as it is in MUMPS. This can be confusing, because the basic abstraction presented to the user in MUMPS is multi-branching trees, but that abstraction is not the same as the underlying storage model. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible. --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) On Sep 19, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should we even care? If so why?) Another difference is the way the data is stored. M data is stored in b-trees, as compared to flat tables (I believe). This leads to faster data acess, and less CPU power needed. Also, the database in M is called by some a sparce array. This means that there are no blank spaces left for data to be later filled into. So with M, if there is no data present, then no space is wasted. I find this to lead to many many fields being defined for a given file. With a traditional database, having all these fields with empty/wasted space, would lead to huge database files. But with M, one can can store years of patient information on a relatively small disk. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
All databases store a certain amount of empty space. Though it's possible that an RDBMS could allocate space for entire tables, and copy the entire table for each insert, but such a design is not very likely. Instead, I would expect storage to be allocated using an underlying B-tree. But even in MUMPS, if you type SET ^GLOBAL(0)=$G(GLOBAL(0))_A the space for the extra A has to go somewhere! It's simply too inefficient not to allocate storage in chunks (typically 1K, 4K, or something similar). === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Without the requirement of mathematical aesthetics a great many discoveries would not have been made. -- Albert Einstein On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:37 PM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: So then, is the argument that relational databases store empty space incorrect? Kevin On 9/19/05, Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is actually not true. flat tables are the abstraction presented to the user (or programmer) with relational databases, but the underlying storage model is, more likely than not, based on B-trees, just as it is in MUMPS. This can be confusing, because the basic abstraction presented to the user in MUMPS is multi-branching trees, but that abstraction is not the same as the underlying storage model. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
You also might want to take a look at my other post that goes into a bit more detail on the motivation for the use of B-trees, by comparing them to lists and balanced trees (such as red-black trees). === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. --Will Durant On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:37 PM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: So then, is the argument that relational databases store empty space incorrect? Kevin On 9/19/05, Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is actually not true. flat tables are the abstraction presented to the user (or programmer) with relational databases, but the underlying storage model is, more likely than not, based on B-trees, just as it is in MUMPS. This can be confusing, because the basic abstraction presented to the user in MUMPS is multi-branching trees, but that abstraction is not the same as the underlying storage model. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool]
Isn't it basically an issue for optimizing for how you expect the DBMS to be used? If you expect to process primarily queries and bulk inserts, then it makes sense to allocate large blocks of storage than if you expect a lot of updates of smaller records. Oh, and I completely agree with you that VistA supports a relational model of data access (even if it doesn't require it), and that it is inaccurate to refer to it as hierarchical. Someday, I'm going to have to sit down with Codd's rules and see how Fileman fares. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. -- Benjamin Disraeli On Sep 19, 2005, at 12:49 PM, Cameron Schlehuber wrote: Many relational databases do waste space, but since even M databases can project a SQL view (relation), that argument may not always be accurate. In my opinion it's misleading for folks to claim that VistA is hierarchical and therefore cannot project a relational view. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation t ool]
Relational DBs always reserve the total space for a record for faster searching. That is why when creating a db you have to tell the DB what type and size of each field is. Thanks Marc Aylesworth C3I Associates AFRL/IFSE Joint Battlespace Infosphere Team 525 Brooks Rd Rome, NY 13441-4505 Tel:315.330.2422 Fax:315.330.7009 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregory Woodhouse Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:06 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: Wiki additions: [was: web evaluation tool] This is actually not true. flat tables are the abstraction presented to the user (or programmer) with relational databases, but the underlying storage model is, more likely than not, based on B-trees, just as it is in MUMPS. This can be confusing, because the basic abstraction presented to the user in MUMPS is multi-branching trees, but that abstraction is not the same as the underlying storage model. === Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible. --Albert Einstein (1879-1955) On Sep 19, 2005, at 11:56 AM, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: 2) What is the fundamental difference between a relational database and a hierarchical database and how does that effect the end-user? (Should we even care? If so why?) Another difference is the way the data is stored. M data is stored in b-trees, as compared to flat tables (I believe). This leads to faster data acess, and less CPU power needed. Also, the database in M is called by some a sparce array. This means that there are no blank spaces left for data to be later filled into. So with M, if there is no data present, then no space is wasted. I find this to lead to many many fields being defined for a given file. With a traditional database, having all these fields with empty/wasted space, would lead to huge database files. But with M, one can can store years of patient information on a relatively small disk. --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
[Hardhats-members] [Fwd: FW: CMS NEWS: ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE DELIVERED TO PHYSICIAN OFFICES]
FYI. Joseph *MEDICARE NEWS* For Immediate release CMS Office of Media Affairs September 19, 2005 *CMS DELIVERS ELECTRONIC HEALTH RECORD SOFTWARE TO PHYSICIAN OFFICES* *Evaluation Version Of Vista-Office Expected To Improve Quality of Care And Stem Costs* The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) today released an evaluation version of VistA-Office Electronic Health Record (Vista-Office), an adaptation of the Veterans Health Administration electronic health record (EHR) technology. This version of the technology will allow for an evaluation of VistA-Office EHR and an assessment of its effectiveness in private physicians offices. The evaluation version will be distributed by qualified vendors and evaluated for usability, effectiveness, implementation and potential for what is known as interoperability, or the ability to communicate, exchange, and use data with other systems and software. As a result of this evaluation, software vendors will be able to further improve the software and develop a version of VistA-Office EHR that is certified in accordance with a process recognized by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). “The President has set a national goal for most Americans to have an electronic health record within a decade, and CMS is working with providers to make that happen,” said CMS Administrator Mark B. McClellan, M.D., Ph.D. “The release of an evaluation version of VistA-Office will provide a testing laboratory for interoperability and will supplement efforts by the American Health Information Community to establish a certification criteria and process. When fully realized, electronic health record software will help physicians improve health care quality while avoiding unnecessary costs.” A certification process will identify standards and minimum requirements to allow electronic health record systems to share important data across settings of care and perform the most important functions of an electronic health record system while maintaining privacy and security of data. EHRs that become certified and that can enable the reporting of quality measures will support CMS quality improvement goals. These systems will also help achieve a national goal of widespread adoption of interoperable EHRs within ten years. The release will also allow for the evaluation of VistA-Office EHR in physician offices, with particular attention to whether and how physician offices can implement the software effectively. This process will take place while HHS Secretary Mike Leavitt, through the Community, considers approaches for certifying interoperability and functional capabilities of electronic health records systems. The modified Vista-Office software retains existing VistA functions of such transactions as order entry, documentation templates, and clinical reminders, and is enhanced with other important functions including physician office patient registration, reporting of quality measures, and printing/faxing of medication prescriptions. The Vista-Office evaluation software is not “free” software. There is a small fee for obtaining the software on computer disk, and there will be other fees an office will need to pay to use the software including licensing and support fees for the database program and CPT® codes. The added office staff cost associated with the implementation of an EHR will also be a part of the total cost of ownership and will play a part in physicians' decisions to adopt and test Vista-Office. In addition, offices will generally need vendor support for installation, configuration, and maintenance, similar to support with any other electronic health record. To address this need, CMS has funded a Vista-Office Vendor Support Organization, WorldVistA, to provide training for
Re: [Hardhats-members] Starting CPRS problems
Mary, You should not have to apply any patches to your CPRS. What you will need to do is get all the firewall issues working. Then, when you try to connect, if you have the wrong CPRS version, it will tell you exactly which version you need. We can help you find the correct one. http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=CPRS_Installation The connection refused error is a very common problem. It means that your CPRS is not getting a signal through to the listener on the server. This can be because you are trying to connect on a port different than the listener is listening on, or because your server has a firewall, or you are trying to go through a router. You may have the newer version of RPCBroker that uses inetd that I am not familiar with. Hopefully Nancy will come in to our rescue, as she seems to always have the best handle on this issue. Welcome to the group! Kevin On 9/19/05, Mary Vercellino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am new to VISTA, and am installing a sandbox on my home computer. I obtained the VISTA CDs from the VA Help Desk, and they are dated Feb. 2005. I have installed the Cache 5.0 software (the free download) on my Windows XP Professional system. I used the instructions in Chapter 1 of the Hardhats web site. I am able to start Taskman, Fileman, Mailman, and Broker. I can send mail using Mailman, and using the RPCTEST program, I am able to get the green light. However, I am confused when it comes to installing CPRS. I downloaded a zip file from the VA web site with CPRSChart.exe in it. ftp://ftp.va.gov/vista/Software/Packages/Order%20Entry-Results%20Reporting%20-%20OR/ First question: I see there are many versions of CPRS and patches available. Is there a version that I can use that works but doesn't need a lot of patches? For example, I downloaded OR_30.195. It looks like OR_30.195 is a patched version of CPRS from January of 2005. Is this version sufficient for a sandbox installation? BUt the zip file has a document in it called OR_30_195RN.pdf which has a list of 15 prerequisite patches. I have tried starting CPRS in the following way: First, I start Taskman... Then I start the Broker... D STRT ^XWBTCP(9210) ^ NOLINE VISTAD STRT^XWBTCP(9210) Start TCP Listener... Checking if TCP Listener has started... TCP Listener started successfully. VISTA Then, I check what's running... VISTAD ^%SS Cache System Status: 6:50 pm 19 Sep 2005 Process Devices KB Namespace Routine CPU,Glob Pri UIC Location 1856 %SYS 0,0 7 0,0 CONTROL 1884 %SYS42,1928 0,0 WRTDMN 1900 %SYS 0,0 7 0,0 GARCOL 1908 %SYS 3111,1317 0,0 JRNDMN 1916 %SYS 0,0 7 0,0 EXPDMN 2052 //./nul 74 %SYS TASKMGR 26814,4916 7 0,0 1576* |TRM|:|1576 98 VISTA %SS5275,1071 7 0,0 1252 |TCP|197256 %SYS %cmtP52,12 7 0,0 2416 //./nul 73 VISTA %ZTM 7786,1351 7 0,0 1172 //./nul 74 VISTA XMKPLQ 1319,4097 0,0 2800 //./nul 79 VISTA XMTDT 1161,2987 0,0 568 //./nul 94 VISTA %ZTMS1 8063,1945 7 0,0 3736 |TCP|921089 VISTA XWBTCPL2694,3447 0,0 6 user, 7 system, 16 mb global/8 mb routine cache So, everything looks okay (that I know of). When I start CPRS using the CPRSChart.exe that was in OR_30.195, (CPRS version 1.0.25.28) I get Error Encountered, Function was: connect. Error was: WSAECONNREFUSED. So, then I turn off firewalls. I have Norton Internet Security Personal Firewall turned OFF. I have Windows XP personal firewall turned OFF. Now, I get Error encountered. Function was: recv. Error was: WSAETIMEDOUT. Does anyone have any suggestions? Do I need to apply patches, or can I use the CPRSChart.exe that is in the OR_30_195.zip file? Am I on the right track? I did check the archives (which have been very helpful for some other problems I had). Thanks, Mary Vercellino New member --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Starting CPRS problems
Do this to find out what version of CPRSChart you need: Select OPTION: GTMD Q^DI VA FileMan 22.0 Select OPTION: 5 INQUIRE TO FILE ENTRIES OUTPUT FROM WHAT FILE: OPTION// Select OPTION NAME: OR CPRS GUI CHART CPRSChart version 1.0.23.15 ANOTHER ONE: Then look here to see which one to download: http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=CPRS_Installation Then do D GETENV^%ZOSV W Y Which should give you this UCI^VOL^NODE^BOX:VOLUME Check your volume set file with VA FileMan 22.0 Select OPTION: 5 INQUIRE TO FILE ENTRIES OUTPUT FROM WHAT FILE: DEVICE// VOLUME SET(1 entry) Select VOLUME SET: ?? and see if the result you get matches VOL or VOLUME in that result you get from D GETENV^%ZOSV W Y Then INQUIRE into the RPC BROKER SITE PARAMETERS file and see if the BOX:VOLUME pair matches your BOX:VOLUME pair in the GETENV result. Do the same with the TASKMAN SITE PARAMETERS. Also be sure the MODE OF TASKMAN: is GENERAL PROCESSOR when you look at the Taskman site parameters. Then check that you can search the documentation on Cache. If you can do that, things should be capable of connecting OK within your local machines environment. So check the shortcut you are using. If you are connecting locally, CPRSChart.exe s=127.0.0.1 p=9210 should be there. Then run D ^ZTMON and make sure everything there looks OK. See how you do with all of that and check back again if you still are not succeeding. On Monday 19 September 2005 10:18 pm, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: Mary, You should not have to apply any patches to your CPRS. What you will need to do is get all the firewall issues working. Then, when you try to connect, if you have the wrong CPRS version, it will tell you exactly which version you need. We can help you find the correct one. http://openforum.worldvista.org/~forum/index.php?title=CPRS_Installation The connection refused error is a very common problem. It means that your CPRS is not getting a signal through to the listener on the server. This can be because you are trying to connect on a port different than the listener is listening on, or because your server has a firewall, or you are trying to go through a router. You may have the newer version of RPCBroker that uses inetd that I am not familiar with. Hopefully Nancy will come in to our rescue, as she seems to always have the best handle on this issue. Welcome to the group! Kevin On 9/19/05, Mary Vercellino [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am new to VISTA, and am installing a sandbox on my home computer. I obtained the VISTA CDs from the VA Help Desk, and they are dated Feb. 2005. I have installed the Cache 5.0 software (the free download) on my Windows XP Professional system. I used the instructions in Chapter 1 of the Hardhats web site. I am able to start Taskman, Fileman, Mailman, and Broker. I can send mail using Mailman, and using the RPCTEST program, I am able to get the green light. However, I am confused when it comes to installing CPRS. I downloaded a zip file from the VA web site with CPRSChart.exe in it. ftp://ftp.va.gov/vista/Software/Packages/Order%20Entry-Results%20Reporting% 20-%20OR/ First question: I see there are many versions of CPRS and patches available. Is there a version that I can use that works but doesn't need a lot of patches? For example, I downloaded OR_30.195. It looks like OR_30.195 is a patched version of CPRS from January of 2005. Is this version sufficient for a sandbox installation? BUt the zip file has a document in it called OR_30_195RN.pdf which has a list of 15 prerequisite patches. I have tried starting CPRS in the following way: First, I start Taskman... Then I start the Broker... D STRT ^XWBTCP(9210) ^ NOLINE VISTAD STRT^XWBTCP(9210) Start TCP Listener... Checking if TCP Listener has started... TCP Listener started successfully. VISTA Then, I check what's running... VISTAD ^%SS Cache System Status: 6:50 pm 19 Sep 2005 Process Devices KB Namespace Routine CPU,Glob Pri UIC Location 1856 %SYS 0,0 7 0,0 CONTROL 1884 %SYS42,1928 0,0 WRTDMN 1900 %SYS 0,0 7 0,0 GARCOL 1908 %SYS 3111,1317 0,0 JRNDMN 1916 %SYS 0,0 7 0,0 EXPDMN 2052 //./nul 74 %SYS TASKMGR 26814,4916 7 0,0 1576* |TRM|:|1576 98 VISTA %SS5275,1071 7 0,0 1252 |TCP|197256 %SYS %cmtP52,12 7 0,0 2416 //./nul 73 VISTA %ZTM 7786,1351 7 0,0 1172 //./nul 74 VISTA XMKPLQ 1319,4097 0,0 2800 //./nul 79 VISTA XMTDT 1161,2987 0,0 568 //./nul 94 VISTA %ZTMS1
[Hardhats-members] Cache Pharmacy Programs
I noticed the Pharmacy system Im working on today actually is functioning on the Cache database and Mumps Anyone ever hear of interactive pharmacy systems in the retail environment? Ruben --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Cache Pharmacy Programs
Could you please elaborate about exactly what you are talking about - the setting and what is working, etc.? On Tuesday 20 September 2005 12:03 am, Ruben Safir wrote: I noticed the Pharmacy system Im working on today actually is functioning on the Cache database and Mumps Anyone ever hear of interactive pharmacy systems in the retail environment? Ruben --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] Cache Pharmacy Programs
On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 23:59 -0400, Nancy Anthracite wrote: Could you please elaborate about exactly what you are talking about - the setting and what is working, etc.? Retail Pharmacy is retail pharmacy. The program is called Interactive with Cache and Mumps off of a Xp computer and a terminal. Ruben On Tuesday 20 September 2005 12:03 am, Ruben Safir wrote: I noticed the Pharmacy system Im working on today actually is functioning on the Cache database and Mumps Anyone ever hear of interactive pharmacy systems in the retail environment? Ruben --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- SF.Net email is sponsored by: Tame your development challenges with Apache's Geronimo App Server. Download it for free - -and be entered to win a 42 plasma tv or your very own Sony(tm)PSP. Click here to play: http://sourceforge.net/geronimo.php ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
