Re: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song...
I think we pretty much agree with you across the board, and we are trying to correct those problems, but there are only just so many hours in the day and not that many of us that can afford the time to do this out of the goodness of our hearts! The funding that is starting to appear in the form of the funding for the documentation and installation of VistA-Office and for the Hui project will be helping to put some people to work correcting these problems full time. The documents on the Wiki and the Hardhats web sites are the contributions of people trying to help with the documentation to span the gap between the excellent VA documentation aimed at the pros and the documentation needed by mere mortals, but MUCH more is needed. As for he language issue, the VAs software follows the standard M, which, I believe, does not currently have the wiggle room for stuffing in bigger character sets. In any case, we will need to do something soon about Internationalization whether it is something like the solution Chris Richardson is working on for internationalization and/or the easy to agree on types of changes to the M standard that we have to get moving on. You did not attend the heavy duty session about Internationalization via TeamSpeak at the Boston meeting because it was in another room where the TeamSpeak server and I were not working, but there is some progress and I hope we can help you find a Greek solution soon so you can get moving on your project. Go out and take a walk on a nice spring day. It will help. On Wednesday 20 April 2005 01:14 am, Doctor Bones wrote: I have been reading the comments and letters... And, there is some wisdom I wish to Question... Please forgive me... If I make anyone upset. It is not my intent at all. In fact you can skip my entire RANT and go to my questions and non-RANT observations. *RANT MODE* I am irked by the wisdom that no one person can set up a hospital with ViSTA. Not necessarily because I don't believe it is true... After having vista use me as a punching bag for a couple of months I sort of believe it :). However this... I don't think is a problem with the complexity of the software or the system in General... I think this is a problem with DOCUMENTATION!!! Even the configuration stuff of Kevin's, Mark's, Nancy's, OpenHui et all... DOESN'T REALLY EXPLAIN WHAT IS GOING ON. Notice I didn't mention the VA's stuff... that is coming up. I want to know what specific fields mean... what am I entering... why isn't it allowing me to enter a specific field. What combination of field entries will do the thing I want. The VA documentation though quite hefty by page count... assumes either you already know how everything works (and is not cross referenced BTW), OR is so sparse that it tantalizes you like a smile from a beautiful woman as she passes you on the train (... or man.. I guess...actually my original analogy was rather crude... you should be happy). There seems to be no rhyme or reason (that I can find... again I am probably looking in the wrong places) as to which order the documentation should be read or what you can get out of them... There are times I will simply open up a document at random to see what is going on. EVEN MEDICINE. was not like this to study *** RANT MODE OFF *** Now... that is done deep breathsigh Some things that I would like to know... What was done to make the Egyptian Vista system What was done in Finland (thank you Hellevi :) or in Germany or in India... What would it take to get an entire hospital rollout documented from admissions to payroll to something that starts with a Z What difficulties has Mr. Self gotten into putting Davis on the Vista What is up with the IHS and is this like a Catholic/Protestant split or can we all just get along? And maybe even share code? What about GPLing whatever changes we make to VistA? What order should I do things? Which documentation comes first and which comes last Which packages come first... etc... -- Ok and now a song.. Dave... would you like me to sing you a song? No Hal. oh. Once again, I am sorry to have offended Mano P.S. I think VistA is one of the coolest packages out there... I would really like it to get used by ... well everyone. P.P.S. I think there is a lot... A LOT... of experience and talent on this list... I really wish that dumb questions where a little more clearly documented... so I wouldn't have to ask them more than 3 times. P.P.S. I am trying to Document what I am doing... but it is really difficult, when you have NO EARTHLY CLUE exactly what it is that you are doing :) --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality
Re: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song...
Mano, I don't think an apology is needed for your mention of the 'warts' on DHCP/VistA. Yours is an old classical song on the stage of VistA, a ballad born of a pain which isn't going to go away. Remember, Mano, ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. So, also is the path to VistA a matter of reliving the past to a great extent. Unfortunately the DNA in VistA has not preserved many things that were considered to be one-time artifacts (e. G. documentation for instance) of then current operations. and, then there is the lack of centralized management in DHCP??? :-) Even so, from a discrete distance VistA is a beautiful thing to behold. I love her--warts and all. Regards, Richard. From: Doctor Bones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:14:33 +0300 To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song... I have been reading the comments and letters... And, there is some wisdom I wish to Question... Please forgive me... If I make anyone upset. It is not my intent at all. In fact you can skip my entire RANT and go to my questions and non-RANT observations. ... . . -- Ok and now a song.. Dave... would you like me to sing you a song? No Hal. oh. Once again, I am sorry to have offended Mano P.S. I think VistA is one of the coolest packages out there... I would really like it to get used by ... well everyone. P.P.S. I think there is a lot... A LOT... of experience and talent on this list... I really wish that dumb questions where a little more clearly documented... so I wouldn't have to ask them more than 3 times. P.P.S. I am trying to Document what I am doing... but it is really difficult, when you have NO EARTHLY CLUE exactly what it is that you are doing :) ... . --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality designed to reduce time involved in creating, integrating, and deploying reporting solutions. Free runtime info, new features, or free trial, at: http://www.businessobjects.com/devxi/728 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song...
The problem is that when you're trying to make sense of someone else's CODE that's true 100 times over. --- James Gray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my experience with much computer documentation over the last 25 years is that much of it should have this warning at the begining of each and every section. You must read and understand all other sections of this manual before reading this section ;-) Jim Gray A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers. --Benjamin Disraeli Greg Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality designed to reduce time involved in creating, integrating, and deploying reporting solutions. Free runtime info, new features, or free trial, at: http://www.businessobjects.com/devxi/728 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song...
Comments below... --- Doctor Bones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to know what specific fields mean... what am I entering... why isn't it allowing me to enter a specific field. What combination of field entries will do the thing I want. Much of the database documentation is put into the database itself. If you enter ?? etc it will tell you what it wants. If you haven't done so yet, get and install VPE. It makes learning about the database MUCH easier. The VA documentation though quite hefty by page count... assumes either you already know how everything works I'm with you, brother... EVEN MEDICINE. was not like this to study When I worked as a programmer in college, I decided that I would go into medicine because I was tired of banging my head against a wall. The designer of the body has better fail-safes than modern software ;-) What would it take to get an entire hospital rollout documented from admissions to payroll to something that starts with a Z Um, probably about $40,000 P.P.S. I am trying to Document what I am doing... but it is really difficult, when you have NO EARTHLY CLUE exactly what it is that you are doing :) Its like we tell first-ear residents, hang in there, it gets better. Honestly. Keep up the good fight :-) Kevin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality designed to reduce time involved in creating, integrating, and deploying reporting solutions. Free runtime info, new features, or free trial, at: http://www.businessobjects.com/devxi/728 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song...
Note that it's the strong form that's discredited, not that there is no relationship between phylogeny and ontogeny. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Toppenberg Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:39 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song... I know what you mean, and perhaps its true for VistA,but the law of recapitulation has been discredited since the beginning of the twentieth century. A nit-picking point, I know. But why it continues to be repeated is beyone me--except that it sounds so cool... http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/haeckel.html (see the last paragraph) Kevin --- Richard G. DAVIS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mano, I don't think an apology is needed for your mention of the 'warts' on DHCP/VistA. Yours is an old classical song on the stage of VistA, a ballad born of a pain which isn't going to go away. Remember, Mano, ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny. So, also is the path to VistA a matter of reliving the past to a great extent. Unfortunately the DNA in VistA has not preserved many things that were considered to be one-time artifacts (e. G. documentation for instance) of then current operations. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality designed to reduce time involved in creating, integrating, and deploying reporting solutions. Free runtime info, new features, or free trial, at: http://www.businessobjects.com/devxi/728 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality designed to reduce time involved in creating, integrating, and deploying reporting solutions. Free runtime info, new features, or free trial, at: http://www.businessobjects.com/devxi/728 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song...
More comments On Wed, 2005-04-20 at 13:31 -0700, Kevin Toppenberg wrote: Comments below... Much of the database documentation is put into the database itself. If you enter ?? etc it will tell you what it wants. I often find myself scratching my head at their explanations. If you haven't done so yet, get and install VPE. It makes learning about the database MUCH easier. OK TASK #1 ! When I worked as a programmer in college, I decided that I would go into medicine because I was tired of banging my head against a wall. The designer of the body has better fail-safes than modern software ;-) My main concern is the way I learned computers was by breaking them. And then figuring out what I did... That doesn't work on Humans... :P What would it take to get an entire hospital rollout documented from admissions to payroll to something that starts with a Z Um, probably about $40,000 Heh... that's kind of like what's a greek urn? Oh about 4.50 an hour... Keep up the good fight :-) Kevin Peace! Manolis --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality designed to reduce time involved in creating, integrating, and deploying reporting solutions. Free runtime info, new features, or free trial, at: http://www.businessobjects.com/devxi/728 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] He isn't heavy he is VistA and lots of whats... a rant... and a song...
On Tuesday 19 April 2005 22:14, Doctor Bones wrote: Not necessarily because I don't believe it is true... After having vista use me as a punching bag for a couple of months I sort of believe it :). I hear ya brother. I take it in small chunks. I get tired and fatigued to the point of exhaustion then I stop all things VistA and go about my normal business. I let my brain mull it over and ferment like a fine Greek wine. Then I go back for another chunk and start the whole process again. I think this is a problem with DOCUMENTATION!!! Even the configuration stuff of Kevin's, Mark's, Nancy's, OpenHui et all... DOESN'T REALLY EXPLAIN WHAT IS GOING ON. Notice I didn't mention the VA's stuff... that is coming up. Agreed!!! I think once one starts to understand what is going on they are so elated to get to some sort of summit they simply pack up their knowledge about 'why' and 'what' is going on and move on up towards the summit. I for one am trying to give a little bit back by contributing to the Wiki... it is a work in progress. We can put up the structure and fill in the spaces as we go. I want to know what specific fields mean... what am I entering... why isn't it allowing me to enter a specific field. What combination of field entries will do the thing I want. Keep molding the clay in your hands until it gets soft enough for you to mold it how you want. Join the club Mano, I think we are in the same class at this point in time. -- Mark Street, RHCE http://www.oswizards.com -- Key fingerprint = 3949 39E4 6317 7C3C 023E 2B1F 6FB3 06E7 D109 56C0 GPG key http://www.oswizards.com/pubkey.asc --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: New Crystal Reports XI. Version 11 adds new functionality designed to reduce time involved in creating, integrating, and deploying reporting solutions. Free runtime info, new features, or free trial, at: http://www.businessobjects.com/devxi/728 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
