Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Have you noticed any difference between the solid gels and the sealed lead acid??? -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:39A To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you Chris, That makes a lot of sense now that I think back. In SoCal, I only recall 1 external event which caused battery intervention (other than the internal test every 2 weeks of use). However, here in NW Georgia, all my UPS's have seen numerous external events since 2004 that required battery intervention. Several of these were very early morning (nap-time) that did almost fully deplete the batteries. So far, no lost equipment! So, I'll be happy with a 3yr replacement cycle for now; but, I will switch to Yuasa batteries! Best, Duncan Christopher Fisk wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Christofer Fisk wrote: It depends on usage. If you never have a power failure the batteries will last a lot longer than if you use them a lot. What you should try to do is to make sure they never never NEVER go under about a 60% charge. Get a battery under 60% and they never really recover. Christopher Fisk
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Mark, Can you expand on your term, sealed lead acid? Not sure what you mean. Wet cells, AGM, and Gel cells are all sealed lead acid batteries from my research. What sort of differences do you mean? Sizing is same. Listed capacity and AH rating seems to be the same. Have noticed that the orientation of the PLUS and MINUS terminal positions follow no spec. This can be a problem if the UPS connection wires are too short to fully span the battery compartment. This is a limiting factor in my Belkin UPS battery replacement ATM. But, so far, I am leaning toward AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries for my UPSs. They seem to give better life over time; even though AGM batteries do not like to be discharged beyond 50%. This can limit their life span so I've read. I have not yet seen this in practice however. Since 2006 I have now lost all of my replacement Gell cell batteries. Possibly because all of them have been fully discharged/recharged several times. I have dug around and asked APC what technology they spec for their batteries. APC does not say. But, they are truly sealed lead acid batteries. And carry a premium price. Best, Duncan mark.dodge wrote: Have you noticed any difference between the solid gels and the sealed lead acid??? -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:39A To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you Chris, That makes a lot of sense now that I think back. In SoCal, I only recall 1 external event which caused battery intervention (other than the internal test every 2 weeks of use). However, here in NW Georgia, all my UPS's have seen numerous external events since 2004 that required battery intervention. Several of these were very early morning (nap-time) that did almost fully deplete the batteries. So far, no lost equipment! So, I'll be happy with a 3yr replacement cycle for now; but, I will switch to Yuasa batteries! Best, Duncan Christopher Fisk wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Christofer Fisk wrote: It depends on usage. If you never have a power failure the batteries will last a lot longer than if you use them a lot. What you should try to do is to make sure they never never NEVER go under about a 60% charge. Get a battery under 60% and they never really recover. Christopher Fisk
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
I assumed that the gel cells were the dry type I have seen in the past, way more money than wet. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 09:38A To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you Mark, Can you expand on your term, sealed lead acid? Not sure what you mean. Wet cells, AGM, and Gel cells are all sealed lead acid batteries from my research. What sort of differences do you mean? Sizing is same. Listed capacity and AH rating seems to be the same. Have noticed that the orientation of the PLUS and MINUS terminal positions follow no spec. This can be a problem if the UPS connection wires are too short to fully span the battery compartment. This is a limiting factor in my Belkin UPS battery replacement ATM. But, so far, I am leaning toward AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries for my UPSs. They seem to give better life over time; even though AGM batteries do not like to be discharged beyond 50%. This can limit their life span so I've read. I have not yet seen this in practice however. Since 2006 I have now lost all of my replacement Gell cell batteries. Possibly because all of them have been fully discharged/recharged several times. I have dug around and asked APC what technology they spec for their batteries. APC does not say. But, they are truly sealed lead acid batteries. And carry a premium price. Best, Duncan mark.dodge wrote: Have you noticed any difference between the solid gels and the sealed lead acid??? -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:39A To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you Chris, That makes a lot of sense now that I think back. In SoCal, I only recall 1 external event which caused battery intervention (other than the internal test every 2 weeks of use). However, here in NW Georgia, all my UPS's have seen numerous external events since 2004 that required battery intervention. Several of these were very early morning (nap-time) that did almost fully deplete the batteries. So far, no lost equipment! So, I'll be happy with a 3yr replacement cycle for now; but, I will switch to Yuasa batteries! Best, Duncan Christopher Fisk wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Christofer Fisk wrote: It depends on usage. If you never have a power failure the batteries will last a lot longer than if you use them a lot. What you should try to do is to make sure they never never NEVER go under about a 60% charge. Get a battery under 60% and they never really recover. Christopher Fisk
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Mark, Yes, gel cells are more money then wet cells. Wet cells should be going away. Thank you! Maybe, not fast enough, but, for my UPS', wet cells do not work here. Best, Duncan mark.dodge wrote: I assumed that the gel cells were the dry type I have seen in the past, way more money than wet. -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 09:38A To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you Mark, Can you expand on your term, sealed lead acid? Not sure what you mean. Wet cells, AGM, and Gel cells are all sealed lead acid batteries from my research. What sort of differences do you mean? Sizing is same. Listed capacity and AH rating seems to be the same. Have noticed that the orientation of the PLUS and MINUS terminal positions follow no spec. This can be a problem if the UPS connection wires are too short to fully span the battery compartment. This is a limiting factor in my Belkin UPS battery replacement ATM. But, so far, I am leaning toward AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries for my UPSs. They seem to give better life over time; even though AGM batteries do not like to be discharged beyond 50%. This can limit their life span so I've read. I have not yet seen this in practice however. Since 2006 I have now lost all of my replacement Gell cell batteries. Possibly because all of them have been fully discharged/recharged several times. I have dug around and asked APC what technology they spec for their batteries. APC does not say. But, they are truly sealed lead acid batteries. And carry a premium price. Best, Duncan mark.dodge wrote: Have you noticed any difference between the solid gels and the sealed lead acid??? -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 10:39A To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you Chris, That makes a lot of sense now that I think back. In SoCal, I only recall 1 external event which caused battery intervention (other than the internal test every 2 weeks of use). However, here in NW Georgia, all my UPS's have seen numerous external events since 2004 that required battery intervention. Several of these were very early morning (nap-time) that did almost fully deplete the batteries. So far, no lost equipment! So, I'll be happy with a 3yr replacement cycle for now; but, I will switch to Yuasa batteries! Best, Duncan Christopher Fisk wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Christofer Fisk wrote: It depends on usage. If you never have a power failure the batteries will last a lot longer than if you use them a lot. What you should try to do is to make sure they never never NEVER go under about a 60% charge. Get a battery under 60% and they never really recover. Christopher Fisk
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, DSinc wrote: From my read of the APC forums, UPS batteries (in APC UPS's) seem to have a Life of about 3-5 years. 3 years seems to be about average. Odd to me that I got damn near 9 years out of my first set of APC batteries. [I do so want a set of 1997 batteries!] But, there was a whole lot of stuff that took place during that time period. I got really lucky! It depends on usage. If you never have a power failure the batteries will last a lot longer than if you use them a lot. What you should try to do is to make sure they never never NEVER go under about a 60% charge. Get a battery under 60% and they never really recover. Christopher Fisk -- BOFH Excuse #262: Our POP server was kidnapped by a weasel. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Chris, That makes a lot of sense now that I think back. In SoCal, I only recall 1 external event which caused battery intervention (other than the internal test every 2 weeks of use). However, here in NW Georgia, all my UPS's have seen numerous external events since 2004 that required battery intervention. Several of these were very early morning (nap-time) that did almost fully deplete the batteries. So far, no lost equipment! So, I'll be happy with a 3yr replacement cycle for now; but, I will switch to Yuasa batteries! Best, Duncan Christopher Fisk wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Christofer Fisk wrote: It depends on usage. If you never have a power failure the batteries will last a lot longer than if you use them a lot. What you should try to do is to make sure they never never NEVER go under about a 60% charge. Get a battery under 60% and they never really recover. Christopher Fisk
[H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
I was having a pretty good vacation until this morning. Both computers running, one's a P35, the other P45 system. Power Outage. By the time it took me to get through to UI, the power came back on. P45 system booted fine. Boot Disk Fail on the P35 (Abit MB). In between my wife sending me out on all kinds of errands (it amazes me how the wife can instinctively know when I'm doing something important and supplant that with the trivial), I start a reinstall of windows to fix the boot record (somehow the repair option was not there or do I misremember?) and bang, another power outage. Again the power comes right back in five minutes. I restart the reinstall, get it to boot and , despite the fact that I now have 3 entries on boot, I get the old system back...except...the data drive is missing. Boot-up detection does and doesn't detect the drive, it gives a blank listing, rather than none. Of course the OS does not see the drive. Blank entry in BIOS with all zeros. Tried reseating cables, new cable, moving drive to other computer, same result. Drive seems to be fried. It was the storage for all my program files (which I can eventually replace) and all my photos, of which I think maybe half are backed up. I have other drives that I've been religiously backing up, that one was one of my least concerns. Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. So Tim Lider, please contact me offlist. Thanks...Steve __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Sorry to hear about your problems Steve, and good luck with getting your data back; stories like this scare me to get better about backing up. And just wondering-do you not have a UPS of any sort to deal with quick power outages and let you do graceful shutdownn? The APC 900VA and 1500VA ones aren't that expensive and are great for this kind of thing (tho mine are a bit old)...I have two just for all my computer desk stuff (a 1500 and 900) and a 1500 on the HT system...battery replacement is a little pain, but if it prevents this kind of stuff, it's worth it! BINO -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tomporowski Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:06 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you I was having a pretty good vacation until this morning. Both computers running, one's a P35, the other P45 system. Power Outage. By the time it took me to get through to UI, the power came back on. P45 system booted fine. Boot Disk Fail on the P35 (Abit MB). In between my wife sending me out on all kinds of errands (it amazes me how the wife can instinctively know when I'm doing something important and supplant that with the trivial), I start a reinstall of windows to fix the boot record (somehow the repair option was not there or do I misremember?) and bang, another power outage. Again the power comes right back in five minutes. I restart the reinstall, get it to boot and , despite the fact that I now have 3 entries on boot, I get the old system back...except...the data drive is missing. Boot-up detection does and doesn't detect the drive, it gives a blank listing, rather than none. Of course the OS does not see the drive. Blank entry in BIOS with all zeros. Tried reseating cables, new cable, moving drive to other computer, same result. Drive seems to be fried. It was the storage for all my program files (which I can eventually replace) and all my photos, of which I think maybe half are backed up. I have other drives that I've been religiously backing up, that one was one of my least concerns. Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. So Tim Lider, please contact me offlist. Thanks...Steve __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
No UPS's for those boxes? Bummer. I had a similar problem in the past causing me grief, and also had power go out half way through flashing a new bios. Since then I gradually added 7 UPS's in the house. No major surprises since. lopaka --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Steve Tomporowski didym...@gmail.com wrote: From: Steve Tomporowski didym...@gmail.com Subject: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 11:06 AM I was having a pretty good vacation until this morning. Both computers running, one's a P35, the other P45 system. Power Outage. By the time it took me to get through to UI, the power came back on. P45 system booted fine. Boot Disk Fail on the P35 (Abit MB). In between my wife sending me out on all kinds of errands (it amazes me how the wife can instinctively know when I'm doing something important and supplant that with the trivial), I start a reinstall of windows to fix the boot record (somehow the repair option was not there or do I misremember?) and bang, another power outage. Again the power comes right back in five minutes. I restart the reinstall, get it to boot and , despite the fact that I now have 3 entries on boot, I get the old system back...except...the data drive is missing. Boot-up detection does and doesn't detect the drive, it gives a blank listing, rather than none. Of course the OS does not see the drive. Blank entry in BIOS with all zeros. Tried reseating cables, new cable, moving drive to other computer, same result. Drive seems to be fried. It was the storage for all my program files (which I can eventually replace) and all my photos, of which I think maybe half are backed up. I have other drives that I've been religiously backing up, that one was one of my least concerns. Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. So Tim Lider, please contact me offlist. Thanks...Steve __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Robert Martin Jr. wrote: No UPS's for those boxes? Bummer. I had a similar problem in the past causing me grief, and also had power go out half way through flashing a new bios. Since then I gradually added 7 UPS's in the house. No major surprises since. I have an APC 1500AV on my computer and another on my Entertainment center. I've had the same UPS's for almost 4 years, but have replaced the batteries in each twice. Wife dislikes the UPS's taking up space, but it is one thing I get to overrule her on. Christopher Fisk -- Alone! I'm alone! I'm a lonely, insignificant speck on a has-been planet orbited by a cold, indifferent sun! -- Homer Simpson, El Viaje Misterioso de Nuestro Homer -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Excellent idea, Bino. That is an idea I've toyed with off and on. It might be time. Today was definitely unusual, here in CT, USA, we very rarely get power outages and we usually know when some kind of weather that could cause one is about to arrive. And I am going to be spending a lot more time backing up.Maybe it's time to get that blu-ray drive, also Steve Bino Gopal wrote: Sorry to hear about your problems Steve, and good luck with getting your data back; stories like this scare me to get better about backing up. And just wondering-do you not have a UPS of any sort to deal with quick power outages and let you do graceful shutdownn? The APC 900VA and 1500VA ones aren't that expensive and are great for this kind of thing (tho mine are a bit old)...I have two just for all my computer desk stuff (a 1500 and 900) and a 1500 on the HT system...battery replacement is a little pain, but if it prevents this kind of stuff, it's worth it! BINO -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Steve Tomporowski Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:06 AM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you I was having a pretty good vacation until this morning. Both computers running, one's a P35, the other P45 system. Power Outage. By the time it took me to get through to UI, the power came back on. P45 system booted fine. Boot Disk Fail on the P35 (Abit MB). In between my wife sending me out on all kinds of errands (it amazes me how the wife can instinctively know when I'm doing something important and supplant that with the trivial), I start a reinstall of windows to fix the boot record (somehow the repair option was not there or do I misremember?) and bang, another power outage. Again the power comes right back in five minutes. I restart the reinstall, get it to boot and , despite the fact that I now have 3 entries on boot, I get the old system back...except...the data drive is missing. Boot-up detection does and doesn't detect the drive, it gives a blank listing, rather than none. Of course the OS does not see the drive. Blank entry in BIOS with all zeros. Tried reseating cables, new cable, moving drive to other computer, same result. Drive seems to be fried. It was the storage for all my program files (which I can eventually replace) and all my photos, of which I think maybe half are backed up. I have other drives that I've been religiously backing up, that one was one of my least concerns. Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. So Tim Lider, please contact me offlist. Thanks...Steve __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Steve Tomporowski wrote: Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. Have another drive that is same model? Try to swap the board between the 2 and see if you can get the data off it that way. You have the chance of breaking the second drive, but if it is data that is irreplacable, it's worth trying IMO. I've done it a lot of times, but generally only with older drives. Christopher Fisk -- Lois Griffin: [on Meg's shoulders] Just a little higher, honey. Meg Griffin: Mom, I don't think I can... [sinks] Girl: Who's holding Lois? Boy: Some guy named Mel. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Now that is an excellent idea. It just so happens that one of the drives on the other computer is the same model. But this time I can backup all the data on that drive first before something happens I'll let everyone know what happens Christopher Fisk wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Steve Tomporowski wrote: Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. Have another drive that is same model? Try to swap the board between the 2 and see if you can get the data off it that way. You have the chance of breaking the second drive, but if it is data that is irreplacable, it's worth trying IMO. I've done it a lot of times, but generally only with older drives. Christopher Fisk __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
I agree. UPS is not optional equipment. I've replaced the batteries in 5 of the 7 over the years, but have seen 2 UPS die over time where battery wasn't the problem. I did move the really large older ones to my work location and am using the more compact, yet high capacity ones at home. lopaka --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Christopher Fisk chr...@mhonline.net wrote: From: Christopher Fisk chr...@mhonline.net Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:03 PM On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Robert Martin Jr. wrote: No UPS's for those boxes? Bummer. I had a similar problem in the past causing me grief, and also had power go out half way through flashing a new bios. Since then I gradually added 7 UPS's in the house. No major surprises since. I have an APC 1500AV on my computer and another on my Entertainment center. I've had the same UPS's for almost 4 years, but have replaced the batteries in each twice. Wife dislikes the UPS's taking up space, but it is one thing I get to overrule her on. Christopher Fisk -- Alone! I'm alone! I'm a lonely, insignificant speck on a has-been planet orbited by a cold, indifferent sun! -- Homer Simpson, El Viaje Misterioso de Nuestro Homer -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Actually this is a topic I was wondering about...how often do you really have to replace your batteries and is there a best way to do it? I.e. only buy APC replacement batteries or can u 3rd party ones for cheaper, etc, or should u just buy a new UPS? :P The 900VA one I have (Back-UPS RS900 from 2004 or so) has a dead battery and I haven't gotten around to replacing it, so yes, despite my post to Steve it's not providing battery backup, but it connects all the peripherals (cable and dsl modems, extra monitors, printers, random stuff, etc) so I don't necessarily need the battery on it, while the RS1500 still has a working battery (for now). I'm just annoyed at how quickly the batteries die, but that's to be expected I guess... :P BINO -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:04 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Robert Martin Jr. wrote: No UPS's for those boxes? Bummer. I had a similar problem in the past causing me grief, and also had power go out half way through flashing a new bios. Since then I gradually added 7 UPS's in the house. No major surprises since. I have an APC 1500AV on my computer and another on my Entertainment center. I've had the same UPS's for almost 4 years, but have replaced the batteries in each twice. Wife dislikes the UPS's taking up space, but it is one thing I get to overrule her on. Christopher Fisk -- Alone! I'm alone! I'm a lonely, insignificant speck on a has-been planet orbited by a cold, indifferent sun! -- Homer Simpson, El Viaje Misterioso de Nuestro Homer -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Steve, Let me add to Lopaka's reply. Long ago, and, after much noise from the List, I finally spent the $$$ and bought some UPS's. Since then, I have lived much better. If you choose to do UPS's, double whatever load you might compute; you get a bit of extra time when MOM is lighting UP your piece of Earth! But. That is JMHO. Good luck Bro. Hope your recovery ends up 5-by-5. Best, Duncan Robert Martin Jr. wrote: No UPS's for those boxes? Bummer. I had a similar problem in the past causing me grief, and also had power go out half way through flashing a new bios. Since then I gradually added 7 UPS's in the house. No major surprises since. lopaka --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Steve Tomporowski didym...@gmail.com wrote: From: Steve Tomporowski didym...@gmail.com Subject: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 11:06 AM I was having a pretty good vacation until this morning. Both computers running, one's a P35, the other P45 system. Power Outage. By the time it took me to get through to UI, the power came back on. P45 system booted fine. Boot Disk Fail on the P35 (Abit MB). In between my wife sending me out on all kinds of errands (it amazes me how the wife can instinctively know when I'm doing something important and supplant that with the trivial), I start a reinstall of windows to fix the boot record (somehow the repair option was not there or do I misremember?) and bang, another power outage. Again the power comes right back in five minutes. I restart the reinstall, get it to boot and , despite the fact that I now have 3 entries on boot, I get the old system back...except...the data drive is missing. Boot-up detection does and doesn't detect the drive, it gives a blank listing, rather than none. Of course the OS does not see the drive. Blank entry in BIOS with all zeros. Tried reseating cables, new cable, moving drive to other computer, same result. Drive seems to be fried. It was the storage for all my program files (which I can eventually replace) and all my photos, of which I think maybe half are backed up. I have other drives that I've been religiously backing up, that one was one of my least concerns. Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. So Tim Lider, please contact me offlist. Thanks...Steve __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Chris, UDAMAN!. In total agreement; even though I have no wife. For the Wife: My old and new UPS's seem to take PAINT very well. Perhaps you could blend yours into your crib somehow to please your wife? Now, if it is really an issue with LEDs blinking, beeps, chirps, etc.; well, now you are on your own... :) Best, Duncan Christopher Fisk wrote: On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Robert Martin Jr. wrote: Wife dislikes the UPS's taking up space, but it is one thing I get to overrule her on. Christopher Fisk
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
I know most on the list support disk imagers to back up data but that never worked for me worth a darn. And my attempts at backup solutions go all the way back to the old tape drives and they never worked worth a darn either. The best solution I've ever found is to duplicate my data across multiple hardrives (and a thumb drive as well) on multiple boxes. Best solution yet if you're not backing up your entire DVD collection. I don't have that much hardrive space. :-) Steve Tomporowski wrote: I was having a pretty good vacation until this morning. Both computers running, one's a P35, the other P45 system. Power Outage. By the time it took me to get through to UI, the power came back on. P45 system booted fine. Boot Disk Fail on the P35 (Abit MB). In between my wife sending me out on all kinds of errands (it amazes me how the wife can instinctively know when I'm doing something important and supplant that with the trivial), I start a reinstall of windows to fix the boot record (somehow the repair option was not there or do I misremember?) and bang, another power outage. Again the power comes right back in five minutes. I restart the reinstall, get it to boot and , despite the fact that I now have 3 entries on boot, I get the old system back...except...the data drive is missing. Boot-up detection does and doesn't detect the drive, it gives a blank listing, rather than none. Of course the OS does not see the drive. Blank entry in BIOS with all zeros. Tried reseating cables, new cable, moving drive to other computer, same result. Drive seems to be fried. It was the storage for all my program files (which I can eventually replace) and all my photos, of which I think maybe half are backed up. I have other drives that I've been religiously backing up, that one was one of my least concerns. Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. So Tim Lider, please contact me offlist. Thanks...Steve __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Bino, I will give you a cook's tour of my personal UPS tour. You decide what to do with your sandbox. Way back in 1997 I bought 4 APC BP1100 (?Back-Ups Pro) UPS's. I did this after many threads on this List about ?some? need to do this. I really did not really get it completely at that time. But I did it. Roll forward to 2006. All 4 for my UPS's started acting odd. Read odd as why are you NOT invisible? Well, stuff happens... :) Now it is 2009 and my 4 old UPS's are now going through their 3rd battery replacement! There is nothing wrong with the original UPS logic. These 4 old horses just need new batteries;.BECAUSE I cheaped out. I did NOT buy the APC branded battery replacements. What I did was: 3 of my UPS's got pairs of PowerSonic PS-12120F2 (Gel Cell). 1 of my UPS's got a pair of Yuasa Genesis NP12-12 (AGM). The 3 units with PowerSonic Gel-Cells are now DEAD! I need 6 new batteries to bring them back to full use! The 1 unit with the pair of Yuasa AGM batteries is still ticking, taking a licking, and feeding power to my Router and ADSL Modem! .. Yes, I will replace these batteries soon, but, ATM, all is very well here! I am thinking of now buying 3 pair of the old Yuasa AGM batteries. (I sure hope they are still available?) They are still cheaper than the APC suggested replacements. In the bad old days, APC would never divulge whose batteries they bought to produce THEIR very expensive replacement battery packs. Now, it is 2009. APC now shares who they get batteries from. Still they DO NOT tell me WHOSE batteries might be in the expensive battery replacement I might buy. OK. But, at least they are trying to hold on to their Consumer/Prosumer customers. :) From my read of the APC forums, UPS batteries (in APC UPS's) seem to have a Life of about 3-5 years. 3 years seems to be about average. Odd to me that I got damn near 9 years out of my first set of APC batteries. [I do so want a set of 1997 batteries!] But, there was a whole lot of stuff that took place during that time period. I got really lucky! So, you wish to go 3rd party? OK. Been there and already done this. If you choose to do this you need to know 3 critical things: a) physical battery size b) the battery Amp/Hour rating c) I'll leave this on blank; because I am sure there will be discussion! I am also of the belief that these UPS batteries are now commodity objects. Home/ProSumer folks are a very small part of this pie. Commercial/Industrial customers really drive the technology in this space. Besides, any same-kind battery you buy today is most likely better than what arrived in your UPS 2-3 years ago. NO. You do not need a NEW UPS. Unless, now, you have a bigger load for the UPS you now have. Bottom Line: UPS Batteries really last 2-5 years. Plan accordingly. Save for the future! Your UPS batteries WILL DIE at some time in the future! It is the nature of the current technology! They are not finite. :) Sorry to be so verbose! Best, Duncan Bino Gopal wrote: Actually this is a topic I was wondering about...how often do you really have to replace your batteries and is there a best way to do it? I.e. only buy APC replacement batteries or can u 3rd party ones for cheaper, etc, or should u just buy a new UPS? :P The 900VA one I have (Back-UPS RS900 from 2004 or so) has a dead battery and I haven't gotten around to replacing it, so yes, despite my post to Steve it's not providing battery backup, but it connects all the peripherals (cable and dsl modems, extra monitors, printers, random stuff, etc) so I don't necessarily need the battery on it, while the RS1500 still has a working battery (for now). I'm just annoyed at how quickly the batteries die, but that's to be expected I guess... :P BINO -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Fisk Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:04 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Robert Martin Jr. wrote: No UPS's for those boxes? Bummer. I had a similar problem in the past causing me grief, and also had power go out half way through flashing a new bios. Since then I gradually added 7 UPS's in the house. No major surprises since. I have an APC 1500AV on my computer and another on my Entertainment center. I've had the same UPS's for almost 4 years, but have replaced the batteries in each twice. Wife dislikes the UPS's taking up space, but it is one thing I get to overrule her on. Christopher Fisk
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Yet another nod to non-optional UPS use. I have an APC SmartUPS 2200VA protecting my main workstation and dual 24 LCDs, pfSense firewall, server box, and some assorted other gear (ie: switches, DOCSIS modem, etc). Another SmartUPS 1000VA protecting my main TV, HDDVR, HTPC, and more assorted network gear. I've got a 1000VA Tripp-Lite unit protecting my fileserver, and a BackUPS 650 protecting my bedroom's TV and HDDVR. Replaced batteries on the 650, my oldest unit, a couple years back. I've been using 3rd party batteries from Provantage. Greg -Original Message- From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware- boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of Robert Martin Jr. Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:31 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you I agree. UPS is not optional equipment. I've replaced the batteries in 5 of the 7 over the years, but have seen 2 UPS die over time where battery wasn't the problem. I did move the really large older ones to my work location and am using the more compact, yet high capacity ones at home. lopaka
Re: [H] Sometimes they're just out to get you
Stan, I'd like to take back any/all bad sends to/against you in the past. Too late, I know. I think that you and I are now Brothers-In-Arms-of-a-type marching forward into whatever we get. We seem to be very vocal on both sides of the fence. Perhaps there will continue this spirited discussion in the future. Sorry. I get testy sometimes! Imaging? Still learning.have questions? Backups? Still trying what I havein XP.? Thanks, Duncan Stan Zaske wrote: I know most on the list support disk imagers to back up data but that never worked for me worth a darn. And my attempts at backup solutions go all the way back to the old tape drives and they never worked worth a darn either. The best solution I've ever found is to duplicate my data across multiple hardrives (and a thumb drive as well) on multiple boxes. Best solution yet if you're not backing up your entire DVD collection. I don't have that much hardrive space. :-) Steve Tomporowski wrote: I was having a pretty good vacation until this morning. Both computers running, one's a P35, the other P45 system. Power Outage. By the time it took me to get through to UI, the power came back on. P45 system booted fine. Boot Disk Fail on the P35 (Abit MB). In between my wife sending me out on all kinds of errands (it amazes me how the wife can instinctively know when I'm doing something important and supplant that with the trivial), I start a reinstall of windows to fix the boot record (somehow the repair option was not there or do I misremember?) and bang, another power outage. Again the power comes right back in five minutes. I restart the reinstall, get it to boot and , despite the fact that I now have 3 entries on boot, I get the old system back...except...the data drive is missing. Boot-up detection does and doesn't detect the drive, it gives a blank listing, rather than none. Of course the OS does not see the drive. Blank entry in BIOS with all zeros. Tried reseating cables, new cable, moving drive to other computer, same result. Drive seems to be fried. It was the storage for all my program files (which I can eventually replace) and all my photos, of which I think maybe half are backed up. I have other drives that I've been religiously backing up, that one was one of my least concerns. Of 6 HDs, the only one that goes is the one with stuff I cannot replace...sheesh. So Tim Lider, please contact me offlist. Thanks...Steve __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com
