Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
Hi, Rachel, I only found one record for this title, and I’ve gone ahead and updated it. Thanks, Jasmin From: Rachel Simon Sent: Monday, March 18, 2024 4:47 PM To: Shinohara, Jasmin ; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel Subject: Re: Help with an Aramaic expression Thanks Jasmin. I've seen Jastrow but didn't remember that this was the dictionary of record for Aramaic. I already told them in Princeton to use this romanization, but since I wasn't sure if this indeed is the authorized form, I suggested not to make changes in OCLC, but only in the Princeton record. So, one of you can do it: I can't contribute to OCLC anymore. My understanding is that there are three records for this book. Thanks for the communal help, Rachel From: Shinohara, Jasmin mailto:jsh...@upenn.edu>> Sent: 18 March 2024 16:06 To: Nadav Sharon mailto:nadav.sha...@utoronto.ca>>; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>; Rachel Simon mailto:rsi...@princeton.edu>> Subject: RE: Help with an Aramaic expression Hi, friends, Per the HCM-RDA appendix, the Aramaic dictionary of record is Jastrow’s A dictionary of the Targumim…, “Used as the authority for supplying vowels for any Aramaic words or phrases not appearing in Even-Shoshan's Hebrew dictionary.” Using the online edition<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.tyndalearchive.com/TABS/Jastrow/__;!!IBzWLUs!Vjke891wy70dOF8C0BgGBn9fUVlhhDcjz5kdmFxCVlsrT1bTPCiSDS6tUI61VYfKq942KnsvSYvq3R5BMBw$> of Jastrow, the expression חסורי מחסרא is found vocalized in the entry for חָסַר, חֲסַר as חַסּוּרֵי מְחַסְּרָא with a variant for מִיחַסְּרָא. As such, the primary romanized form is ḥasure meḥasra; since the expression is in the first five words of your title, Rachel, you can add a variant romanization for miḥasra. Thanks and kol tuv, Jasmin From: Heb-naco mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> On Behalf Of Nadav Sharon via Heb-naco Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 1:34 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>) mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>; Rachel Simon mailto:rsi...@princeton.edu>> Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression I would suggest: ḥasure meḥasra All the best, Nadav Nadav Sharon, PhD Judaica Librarian Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto 120 St George Street Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A5 416-946-3176 From: Heb-naco I would suggest: ḥasure meḥasra All the best, Nadav Nadav Sharon, PhD Judaica Librarian Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto 120 St George Street Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A5 416-946-3176 From: Heb-naco mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> on behalf of Rachel Simon via Heb-naco mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 12:25 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>) mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> Subject: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? Have fun! Rachel ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
Thanks Jasmin. I've seen Jastrow but didn't remember that this was the dictionary of record for Aramaic. I already told them in Princeton to use this romanization, but since I wasn't sure if this indeed is the authorized form, I suggested not to make changes in OCLC, but only in the Princeton record. So, one of you can do it: I can't contribute to OCLC anymore. My understanding is that there are three records for this book. Thanks for the communal help, Rachel From: Shinohara, Jasmin Sent: 18 March 2024 16:06 To: Nadav Sharon ; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel ; Rachel Simon Subject: RE: Help with an Aramaic expression Hi, friends, Per the HCM-RDA appendix, the Aramaic dictionary of record is Jastrow’s A dictionary of the Targumim…, “Used as the authority for supplying vowels for any Aramaic words or phrases not appearing in Even-Shoshan's Hebrew dictionary.” Using the online edition<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tyndalearchive.com/TABS/Jastrow/__;!!KGKeukY!zVIvwptcKvMhQ6ZEoK55tCHGXDDCImtEuyk8i_OBTi9UNKkIy6GwcHTH4zFtjsBNEquRwMtMpNAube4TelwTlSun$ > of Jastrow, the expression חסורי מחסרא is found vocalized in the entry for חָסַר, חֲסַר as חַסּוּרֵי מְחַסְּרָא with a variant for מִיחַסְּרָא. As such, the primary romanized form is ḥasure meḥasra; since the expression is in the first five words of your title, Rachel, you can add a variant romanization for miḥasra. Thanks and kol tuv, Jasmin From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Nadav Sharon via Heb-naco Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 1:34 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu) ; Rachel Simon Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression I would suggest: ḥasure meḥasra All the best, Nadav Nadav Sharon, PhD Judaica Librarian Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto 120 St George Street Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A5 416-946-3176 From: Heb-naco I would suggest: ḥasure meḥasra All the best, Nadav Nadav Sharon, PhD Judaica Librarian Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto 120 St George Street Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A5 416-946-3176 From: Heb-naco mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> on behalf of Rachel Simon via Heb-naco mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 12:25 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>) mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> Subject: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? Have fun! Rachel ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
Hi, friends, Per the HCM-RDA appendix, the Aramaic dictionary of record is Jastrow’s A dictionary of the Targumim…, “Used as the authority for supplying vowels for any Aramaic words or phrases not appearing in Even-Shoshan's Hebrew dictionary.” Using the online edition<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.tyndalearchive.com/TABS/Jastrow/__;!!KGKeukY!wsSzUk7HPQyHraKoo-hw8VTZCu3abS0txdfL58WlNZXcL7gb52c-acmHdrVGfRfucNesCU7TRIxomjlkF1NmRw$ > of Jastrow, the expression חסורי מחסרא is found vocalized in the entry for חָסַר, חֲסַר as חַסּוּרֵי מְחַסְּרָא with a variant for מִיחַסְּרָא. As such, the primary romanized form is ḥasure meḥasra; since the expression is in the first five words of your title, Rachel, you can add a variant romanization for miḥasra. Thanks and kol tuv, Jasmin From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Nadav Sharon via Heb-naco Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 1:34 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu) ; Rachel Simon Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression I would suggest: ḥasure meḥasra All the best, Nadav Nadav Sharon, PhD Judaica Librarian Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto 120 St George Street Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A5 416-946-3176 From: Heb-naco I would suggest: ḥasure meḥasra All the best, Nadav Nadav Sharon, PhD Judaica Librarian Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto 120 St George Street Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A5 416-946-3176 From: Heb-naco mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> on behalf of Rachel Simon via Heb-naco mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 12:25 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu<mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>) mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> Subject: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? Have fun! Rachel ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
Hi Rachel, The only vocalized source that I could find was in Sefaraia "William Davidsion romanization." This I believe would be ALA/LC (based on ALA/LC Hebrew romanization) would be ״Ḥasore meḥasra״ This form is also cited by Strack. I look forward to seeing how this mystery plays out. Best, Heidi From: Heb-naco on behalf of Rachel Simon via Heb-naco Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 9:25 AM To: heb-naco Subject: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? Have fun! Rachel ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
I would suggest: ḥasure meḥasra All the best, Nadav Nadav Sharon, PhD Judaica Librarian Thomas Fisher Rare Book Library University of Toronto 120 St George Street Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A5 416-946-3176 From: Heb-naco on behalf of Rachel Simon via Heb-naco Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 12:25 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu) Subject: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? Have fun! Rachel ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
Hi, Rachel, Steinsaltz has hasore mehasra, with h's underdotted of course. I would go with that. With the caveat that I am not an expert. Best, Barry On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 12:56 PM Rachel Simon via Heb-naco < heb-naco@lists.osu.edu> wrote: > Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic > even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא > in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked > two dictionaries, and > Good afternoon! > > Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me > for help, but I'm stuck. > > How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד > הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were > vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title > romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? > > Have fun! > > Rachel > ___ > Heb-naco mailing list > Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu > https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco > ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
Re: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
I’d defer to better Arameists, but in my opinion it is hasure mehasera. Shabbat shalom, Neil M. Frau-Cortes PhD, MLIS (pronouns<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.glsen.org/activity/pronouns-guide-glsen__;!!KGKeukY!0WWGnOvNq5w44J81JC5aK05SaUaqVm08udtDtK3jCzRash8rHxsFSu80hus1riXgKZnC69XqNMMZtQQ_foqV-ZVOBUg$ >: he/him/his) Cataloger - Libraries Division – Collection Management 100 S. Andrews Avenue, MN7 Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301 954-357-5593 https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.broward.org/library__;!!KGKeukY!0WWGnOvNq5w44J81JC5aK05SaUaqVm08udtDtK3jCzRash8rHxsFSu80hus1riXgKZnC69XqNMMZtQQ_foqV4suAj6g$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.broward.org/library__;!!KGKeukY!0WWGnOvNq5w44J81JC5aK05SaUaqVm08udtDtK3jCzRash8rHxsFSu80hus1riXgKZnC69XqNMMZtQQ_foqV4suAj6g$ > [Broward County Library Logo for Email Signature] [cid:image002.jpg@01DA76D9.16654F90] From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Rachel Simon via Heb-naco Sent: Friday, March 15, 2024 12:26 PM To: Heb-NACO (heb-naco@lists.osu.edu) Subject: [Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? Have fun! Rachel Under Florida law, most e-mail messages to or from Broward County employees or officials are public records, available to any person upon request, absent an exemption. Therefore, any e-mail message to or from the County, inclusive of e-mail addresses contained therein, may be subject to public disclosure. ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
[Heb-NACO] Help with an Aramaic expression
Good afternoon! Although I'm retired, sometimes those who know Aramaic even less ask me for help, but I'm stuck. How should the words חסורי מחסרא in the title סוגיות חסורי מחסרא בתלמוד הבבלי be romanmized? I've checked two dictionaries, and these words were vocalized differently. My understanding is that OCLC also has this title romanized in three ways! So, how should it really be? Have fun! Rachel ___ Heb-naco mailing list Heb-naco@lists.osu.edu https://lists.osu.edu/mailman/listinfo/heb-naco
