Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
You've misunderstood. No one has said anything about test at a school. At least I haven't My response at least was referring to those who sat for state exams and then a comparison to the now ASCP exam route. There's a huge difference in what older techs got than what newer ones are getting and anyone who says different. Well I just don't buy it This whole conversation was about why are we not raising the bar. My point was the way it is now has not raised the bar. There is no way to address this topic here without offending some. Which was never my intentions. I tried my best to explain the routes techs take these days compared to the routes way back. And if everyone here thinks that having a bunch of Internet programs where you don't have the other courses and no face time and the focus is to pass a exam then don't get upset. When respect isn't given. I think I've said more than my fairshare on this. I'll just spend the rest of my day pulling the knives from my back. Good luck to all. Sent from my iPhone On May 29, 2012, at 8:08 PM, Fimbres, Amber afimb...@uci.edu wrote: I hope I've misunderstood but I want to clarify that the ASCP computer exam for technicians and technologists is NOT inferior to those that sat for an exam at their local medical school. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. This still holds true for the ASCP computer exam as well. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the process, but one has to bring a state issued picture ID (or equivalent) which has to match the name exactly to the exam application (no ifs, ands, or buts). Then, they ask you to turn out all your pockets and if you have anything on you (including keys) it goes into a locker. Then they fingerprint you and tell you that as you are taking the exam, you will be videotaped AND recorded while you sit there. If you leave to use the restroom, that whole procedure is repeated. Please do not assume that sitting for the exam back in the day is somehow superior to those that take the computer exams nowadays. We ALL worked hard studying for those exams and we should be united in our stance that HT/HTL certification is important to all of us. Stepping off the soap box now, Amber M. Fimbres, MHA CT(ASCP)HTL Proudly took her HT, HTL, and CT using the ASCP BOR computer exam -Original Message- From: Dorothy Ragland-Glass [mailto:techman...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 10:15 PM To: David Kemler; Fellow HistoNetters Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC You are so right about the good old days when you would prove who you were and sit for a paper not computer exam at a medical school close to you. I sat for the HTL in 1988. I was so proud to call myself a Histologist after being trained at a School of Histotechnology and being ASCP certified. NOW you have people on the job trained just referring to themselves casually as histotects. Not histo trainees. Unfortunate for us older techs, it is very offensive considering what we went through in establishing a career not just a job. Some reference labs is focusing on hiring aids to later, after a few months train them and refer to them as histotechs. I hate it when the term is used so freely. Sinserely, frustrated HTL David Kemler histot...@yahoo.com wrote: Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking the HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASCP, because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total of 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I still only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Florida and call myself a histologist. In those days ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's, BT's, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You chose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you needed to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examining college on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given) that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before you were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was a challenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or you were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - they were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium that day n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortunately, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, if you were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so today. Yours, Dave Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
All, My point exactly. It belittles what we do (our education and training) and went through to get certified. As I voiced to a an MD the other day, it would be like him calling himself an MD without being licensed. Bernice Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Senior Research Tech Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL Robert. H. Lurie Cancer Center Northwestern University 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 b-freder...@northwestern.edu -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Dorothy Ragland-Glass Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:15 AM To: David Kemler; Fellow HistoNetters Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC You are so right about the good old days when you would prove who you were and sit for a paper not computer exam at a medical school close to you. I sat for the HTL in 1988. I was so proud to call myself a Histologist after being trained at a School of Histotechnology and being ASCP certified. NOW you have people on the job trained just referring to themselves casually as histotects. Not histo trainees. Unfortunate for us older techs, it is very offensive considering what we went through in establishing a career not just a job. Some reference labs is focusing on hiring aids to later, after a few months train them and refer to them as histotechs. I hate it when the term is used so freely. Sinserely, frustrated HTL David Kemler histot...@yahoo.com wrote: Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking the HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASCP, because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total of 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I still only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Florida and call myself a histologist. In those days ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's, BT's, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You chose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you needed to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examining college on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given) that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before you were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was a challenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or you were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - they were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium that day n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortunately, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, if you were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so today. Yours, Dave Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, certification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States require some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never heard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. -The way I understand through what I’ve been taught at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that... -To study tissue there is another science that prepares specimens so they can be studied. And that... -There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that verifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the tissue can be studied. And that… In order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much more. If I understood it all correctly I can’t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this crucial preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for precise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to have some method that can gage a set of basic skills to indicate a level of competency that HT/HTL's should initially have, in order to enter the field of work that can effect so many people either directly or indirectly? And also... Wouldn’t having NAACLS accredited training and ASCP Certifications serve to gage those basic skills? And also… Would gaging basic skills have a positive impact on the quality of patient care and the efficiency of the HT/HTL’s impact on labs?” I'm not sure but...this fall… when I complete my NAACLS accredited degree program, and voluntarily take the ASCP HTL certification exam, my future employer will be able to expect a certain level
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
There is nothing volunteer about being ASCP certified as an HT or= HTL where I have worked for the last 35 years, all those employed as HT's = at the U of Colorado must be ASCP certified and I believe this is the case = for most other places doing hospital based Histology, work, right --= -- Original Message Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered tec= hs From: Dorothy Ragland-Glass [1]techman...@yahoo.com Date: Mon, May 28, 2012 10:14 pm To: David Kemler [2]histotalk@ yahoo.com, Fellow HistoNetters [3]Histonet@Lists.UTSouthwestern.edu Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC You are so right about = the good old days when you would prove who you were and sit for a paper not= computer exam at a medical school close to you. I sat for the HTL in 1988.= I was so proud to call myself a Histologist after being trained at a Schoo= l of Histotechnology and being ASCP certified. NOW you have people on the j= ob trained just referring to themselves casually as histotects. Not histo t= rainees. Unfortunate for us older techs, it is very offensive considering w= hat we went through in establishing a career not just a job. Some reference= labs is focusing on hiring aids to later, after a few months train them an= d refer to them as histotechs. I hate it when the term is used so freely. Sinserely, frustrated HTL David Kemler [4]histot...@yahoo.com wrote: Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking th e HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASC= P, because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total o f 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I= still only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Floridan bsp;and call myself a histologist. In those d= ays ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's,= BT's, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You= chose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you= needed to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examinin= g college on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given)nb= sp;that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before y= ou were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was= a challenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or youn= bsp;were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - t= hey were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium tha= t day n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortuna= tely, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, i= f you were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so t= oday. Yours, Dave Hist= onetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong s= entiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact o= n HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I= am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, = ;certification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize= that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States requi= re some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never = heard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. = -The way I understand through what I’ve been taug= ht at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that..= . -To study tissue there is another science that prepa= res specimens so they can be studied. And that... = -There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that ve= rifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the= tissue can be studied. And that… In= order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the = HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety = is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations g= t;maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much = gt;more. If I understood it all correctly I can��= �t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this cruci= al preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for pre= cise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis = of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to = have some method that can gage a set of basic skills to indicate = a level of competency that HT/HTL's should initially have, in ord= er to enter the field of work that can effect so many people eith= er directly or indirectly? And also... Wouldn��= �t having NAACLS accredited
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
I thought so too, and that was the case where I am originally from- but no, not really it seems to vary by geographic location. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: pru...@ihctech.net To: techman...@yahoo.com; histot...@yahoo.com; Histonet@Lists.UTSouthwestern.edu Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:18:29 -0700 Subject: RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs CC: There is nothing volunteer about being ASCP certified as an HT or=L where I have worked for the last 35 years, all those employed as HT's = the U of Colorado must be ASCP certified and I believe this is the case =r most other places doing hospital based Histology, work, right --= Original Message Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered tec= From: Dorothy Ragland-Glass [1]techman...@yahoo.com Date: Mon, May 28, 2012 10:14 pm To: David Kemler [2]histotalk@ yahoo.com, Fellow HistoNetters [3]Histonet@Lists.UTSouthwestern.edu Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC You are so right about =e good old days when you would prove who you were and sit for a paper not=mputer exam at a medical school close to you. I sat for the HTL in 1988.=as so proud to call myself a Histologist after being trained at a Schoo=f Histotechnology and being ASCP certified. NOW you have people on the j= trained just referring to themselves casually as histotects. Not histo t=inees. Unfortunate for us older techs, it is very offensive considering w=t we went through in establishing a career not just a job. Some reference=bs is focusing on hiring aids to later, after a few months train them an=efer to them as histotechs. I hate it when the term is used so freely. Sinserely, frustrated HTL David Kemler [4]histot...@yahoo.com wrote: Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking th e HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASC= because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total o f 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I=ill only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Floridan bsp;and call myself a histologist. In those d=s ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's,='s, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You=ose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you=eded to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examinin=ollege on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given)nb=;that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before y= were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was�hallenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or youn=p;were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - t=y were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium tha=ay n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortuna=ly, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, i=ou were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so t=ay. Yours, Dave Hist=etters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong s=timents from professionals who are impacted or have an impact o=T/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I= still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, =ertification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize=at ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States requi= some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never =ard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. =A -The way I understand through what I’ve been taug= at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that..= -To study tissue there is another science that prepa=s specimens so they can be studied. And that... =A-There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that ve=fies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the=ssue can be studied. And that… In=der for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the =/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety =s observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations g=maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much =;more. If I understood it all correctly I can�=9t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this cruci= preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for pre=se microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis = disease
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Lets just get to the crux of all this shall we. In some states where license rules. It goes like this. I'll use Florida because thats where I am. Back in the day the state offered their own test. 3 of them to be specific, technician, technologist and general lab. The state decided to stop giving test so they went and allowed the ASCP to offer the way to becoming a histotech. Now dont get me wrong, I have a great deal of respect for ASCP, although I do feel they lowered the standards when they got rid of the technical test portion. I know many histotechs that went through a internet AS degreed program, such as Florida State College. a Great program by the way. They still require students to go to campus occasionally and a long technical practicum somehwere. These students get QUALITATIVE CHEMISTRY and microbiology. plus a very intensive practicum. You used to have to take immunology, hematology, phlebotomy and some other stuff I cant remember. Never the less still one of the best colleges to seek good techs from. yes, Im biased. But here's what I'm seeing. Many of these out of state programs take in students they NEVER lay an eye on. These people pass a test and they are histotechs. And guess what, many of these students all they care about is passing that test and getting that title and fat paycheck much like all I care about taxes is that Ive filled it out and now send me a return (hopefully). I'm going to catch a bunch of stuff for this. But if none of you want to address it, then I have no choice. Because I'm just stuborn that way and I really care about this profession and by god Im getting older and desire for people coming into this profession to have enough knowledge to solve problems. Why? because patient care really is still driving me after all these years. So back to license or requiring ASCP. No, you dont have to have ASCP if youve went though all this other stuff Ive talked about in Florida. You are lisensed. But if you are new, yes you have to get ASCP to get one. But even if you go through a online internet program and DO NOT have a higher education, Florida will still only reconize to license you as a technician. You will need to have some years under your belt as a technician to take the route to become technologist, then more years to become supervisor. There is no real OJT in Florida, you would have to be registered with the state and given a temporary license and you would have to show where you are studying in a approved course to get it. Who knows, maybe you even had your husband do the program for you while you were at work or making dinner. But you still have to pass that test so maybe you are a good test taker. Who knows. Now, if anyone wants to bash me up, go ahead. Because I have had at least 8 people in the last 2 years who couldnt even tell me what stain stains a nucleus who has graduated from a online course. If you want respect, raise the bar. If you raise it so high that I have even half to jump through more hoops , so be it. But dont just ignore where we ALL know the problem is. We are NOT politicians. I care for this place and all of you as professionals and I am sorry for being so blunt because I know this is going to hurt me. Good Day. Kim D From: pru...@ihctech.net pru...@ihctech.net To: Dorothy Ragland-Glass techman...@yahoo.com; David Kemler histot...@yahoo.com; Fellow HistoNetters Histonet@Lists.UTSouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs There is nothing volunteer about being ASCP certified as an HT or= HTL where I have worked for the last 35 years, all those employed as HT's = at the U of Colorado must be ASCP certified and I believe this is the case = for most other places doing hospital based Histology, work, right --= -- Original Message Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered tec= hs From: Dorothy Ragland-Glass [1]techman...@yahoo.com Date: Mon, May 28, 2012 10:14 pm To: David Kemler [2]histotalk@ yahoo.com, Fellow HistoNetters [3]Histonet@Lists.UTSouthwestern.edu Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC You are so right about = the good old days when you would prove who you were and sit for a paper not= computer exam at a medical school close to you. I sat for the HTL in 1988.= I was so proud to call myself a Histologist after being trained at a Schoo= l of Histotechnology and being ASCP certified. NOW you have people on the j= ob trained just referring to themselves casually as histotects. Not histo t= rainees. Unfortunate for us older techs, it is very offensive considering w= hat we went through in establishing a career not just a job. Some reference= labs is focusing on hiring aids to later, after a few months train them an= d refer to them
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
I hope I've misunderstood but I want to clarify that the ASCP computer exam for technicians and technologists is NOT inferior to those that sat for an exam at their local medical school. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. This still holds true for the ASCP computer exam as well. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the process, but one has to bring a state issued picture ID (or equivalent) which has to match the name exactly to the exam application (no ifs, ands, or buts). Then, they ask you to turn out all your pockets and if you have anything on you (including keys) it goes into a locker. Then they fingerprint you and tell you that as you are taking the exam, you will be videotaped AND recorded while you sit there. If you leave to use the restroom, that whole procedure is repeated. Please do not assume that sitting for the exam back in the day is somehow superior to those that take the computer exams nowadays. We ALL worked hard studying for those exams and we should be united in our stance that HT/HTL certification is important to all of us. Stepping off the soap box now, Amber M. Fimbres, MHA CT(ASCP)HTL Proudly took her HT, HTL, and CT using the ASCP BOR computer exam -Original Message- From: Dorothy Ragland-Glass [mailto:techman...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 10:15 PM To: David Kemler; Fellow HistoNetters Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC You are so right about the good old days when you would prove who you were and sit for a paper not computer exam at a medical school close to you. I sat for the HTL in 1988. I was so proud to call myself a Histologist after being trained at a School of Histotechnology and being ASCP certified. NOW you have people on the job trained just referring to themselves casually as histotects. Not histo trainees. Unfortunate for us older techs, it is very offensive considering what we went through in establishing a career not just a job. Some reference labs is focusing on hiring aids to later, after a few months train them and refer to them as histotechs. I hate it when the term is used so freely. Sinserely, frustrated HTL David Kemler histot...@yahoo.com wrote: Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking the HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASCP, because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total of 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I still only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Florida and call myself a histologist. In those days ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's, BT's, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You chose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you needed to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examining college on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given) that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before you were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was a challenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or you were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - they were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium that day n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortunately, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, if you were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so today. Yours, Dave Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, certification, and registration work for HT/HTL's. I realize that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States require some sort of license or certification, but I've never heard of a Registry for HT/HTL's. -The way I understand through what I've been taught at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that... -To study tissue there is another science that prepares specimens so they can be studied. And that... -There is a final sequence Quality Control that verifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the tissue can be studied. And that... In order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much more. If I understood it all correctly I can't help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this crucial preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for precise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to have some method
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
You forgot one thing. We had to pass a practical examination of stains they told you to do and pass before we could sit for the written! That went away with all the automated equipment and many who OJT now and even some schools don't do a hand staining specal stain sequence from scratch. Or what all the ex tras ones we did by hand are as the list is s o extensive. IHC is taking some of the old stains away and is a better method for some disease processes. However ; we still have some older patholgoist wh o want to see stains we don't do or can't due to mercury or other components we are not allowed to dispose of without a permit or extra expense to get r id of. We have automated and hand staining with some of us older histologist still enjoying the occassional hand stain technique. Pam Marcum - Original Message - From: David Kemler histot...@yahoo.com To: Fellow HistoNetters Histonet@Lists.UTSouthwestern.edu Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 9:46:42 AM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking the HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASCP, because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total of 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I still only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Florida and call myself a histologist. In those days ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's, BT's, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You chose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you needed to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examining college on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given) that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before you were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was a challenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or you were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - they were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium that day n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortunately, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, if you were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so today. Yours, Dave Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, certification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States require some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never heard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. -The way I understand through what I’ve been taught at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that... -To study tissue there is another science that prepares specimens so they can be studied. And that... -There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that verifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the tissue can be studied. And that… In order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much more. If I understood it all correctly I can’t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this crucial preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for precise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to have some method that can gage a set of basic skills to indicate a level of competency that HT/HTL's should initially have, in order to enter the field of work that can effect so many people either directly or indirectly? And also... Wouldn’t having NAACLS accredited training and ASCP Certifications serve to gage those basic skills? And also… Would gaging basic skills have a positive impact on the quality of patient care and the efficiency of the HT/HTL’s impact on labs?” I'm not sure but...this fall… when I complete my NAACLS accredited degree program, and voluntarily take the ASCP HTL certification exam, my future employer will be able to expect a certain level of competency that I hope to have established through training and certification. Rick T. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From: Rick Tiefenauer gonavy2...@gmail.com To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
And you are a wonderful tech. And I'm so proud of you for continuing your education. Anyone who gets mentored by you will be very lucky. Hope your having a great day. Luv ya Sent from my iPhone On May 25, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Nicole Tatum nic...@dlcjax.com wrote: LOL, I dont have much to say about this one. Like you Kim I have a fl HTL license and an HT ASCP. I have two classes left before I complete my BSH and will be able to sit for my ASCP HTL. I have 12yrs of experience but that is not reconginized in the eyes of licensure for ASCP. I do believe my skill level should determine my licensure status not the degree I hold. Because I promise every class im taking rt now means nothing towards my field. The word histology has not even be written in any of the books im studying. I think OJT techs are just as qualified as any person who completed an online programs, if not more so. I completed an online histology program and learned my skills from other people in the bizz with alot of experience who were willing to train me and be patient. Never one time did I question their, experience, licensure, or training. The OJTs carried Histology through the transisition of licensure and passed the skills and knowlegde on to us young bucks to carry the torch. That is all...lol Nicole Tatum HT ASCP (hahaha soon to be HTL ASCP) :)~~~ LOL, I was waiting for this thread to turn into a fist fight. I knew it would. A Fl Licensed HTL is someone who oviously had to take more test than a ASCP certified tech if they got it from 19 years ago. How do I know, I'm one of those who had to take all those test way back then. Florida is pretty stringent who can do what with what. Not as much as they used to be, because now the only route is through ASCP. You will not work in a hospital as a histologist without a Fl License. Maybe in a exclusive provider private office, but that is the only exception. As far as Monkeys. Whew! I think that's whats wrong with our profession, one thing anyway. Too many people veiw it that way. Personally I wish the Histo programs would go back to teaching on campus with using the MLT course comparison. Not to bash anyone who is either involved or has been involved with the internet programs that have popped up everywhere, but I'm not seeing the same level of technical skill or knowledge come out of these programs. I'm sure there are many super students who do get it, but many times they are pushed through on thier short rotations and used as gophers etc and dont have the skills even sometimes to cut a block. And forget about knowing what a good control for a GMS is. I'd like to see our profession go back to min AS degrees in Histology. The certification only have hurt us and the pay scale is changing I feel because of it. Also, if you really want to promote our field and improve it, be supportive of your state going to a license for our practice. ASCP supports states requiring license. Thats my 2cents for the day. Happy Friday! :) Kim D From: William Chappell cha...@yahoo.com To: Davide Costanzo pathloc...@gmail.com Cc: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say something. Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horribly crass way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two types of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those who have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the other, both are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of Histonetters -- especially avid contributors are in the latter group. I know I am. Histotechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed, cut, stain and go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not committed to expanding the field or doing more than is needed to provide the pathologist with a perfect slide. Jay refers to these people as no better than trained monkeys. That is a horrible insult with a small (very small) grain of truth. One day those histologists will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The march of progress is unstoppable. The career histologist has a much longer life span however. We analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understand or endeavor to learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY how a Rabbit Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and special stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments that will replace the first group in the future. Jay, that is why so many are offended. We don't do this simply because it is a good paycheck. We are histologists because we are professionals who choose this career. You may be going to a job
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Well said Will.
Original Message
Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
From: William Chappell = a
href=mailto:cha...@yahoo.com;cha...@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, M= ay 24, 2012 4:02 pm
To: Davide Costanzo [1]pathloc...@gmail.com
Cc: histonet [2]histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say s
omething.
Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horr= ibly crass
way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two typ= es
of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those
wh= o have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the
other, bo= th are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of
Histonetters -- esp= ecially avid contributors are in the latter
group. I know I am.
Hist= otechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed,
cut, stain and= go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not
committed to expanding= the field or doing more than is needed to
provide the pathologist with a p= erfect slide. Jay refers to these
people as no better than trained monkeys.= That is a horrible insult
with a small (very small) grain of truth. One da= y those histologists
will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The = march of
progress is unstoppable.
The career histologist has a much = longer life span however. We
analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understa= nd or endeavor to
learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY ho= w a Rabbit
Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of
histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and
specia= l stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments
that will replac= e the first group in the future.
Jay, that is why so many are offend= ed. We don't do this simply
because it is a good paycheck. We are histologi= sts because we are
professionals who choose this career. You may be going t= o a job
cutting slides (which is great and necessary), but we are enjoyingour
life.
Will Chappell, HTL (ASCP), QIHC, MBA
and histologist by= choice, not accident
On May 24, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Davide Costan= zo wrote:
I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we = are just as
much
needed as pathologists, blah, blah,
blah..= . is so upsetting I cannot sit back and listen to that
without
= saying something!
Everyone, regardless of their lot in li= fe, is a very worthwhile
part of the
whole. Let me ask you a questi= on, since you highly undervalue
humans that
are not MD's - let's sa= y that you are a patient at Hospital X, and
you go
in to have your = toenail removed. Who plays a more important role
in your
survival -= the Podiatrist or the hospital janitor? I would argue
that the
jan= itor is more crucial in this instance, for if he/she fails to
clean up
= gt; the MRSA from the last patient you could conceivably die. The
doctor so= lved
your fungal problem, but the janitor prevented you from gettin= g a
potentially life-threatening infection. Think before you speaklike
that -
everyone involved in your care is critical - and, yes, = sometimes
the doctor
is not the most important person when it comes= to keeping you alive
and
well!
OnThu,May 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Jay Lundgren
[3]jaylundg...@gmail.com wrote:
= gt;
Scott Lyons [4]slnj07@yah= oo.com
Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not ma= ke diagnoses or treat
patients. I
am a registered HT and a Flor= ida licensed HTL with 19 years
experience,
I've done it all in = the lab. I believe the certification and
licensure of
techs is = a scam to bleed more money from people. Honestly, you
can train a
g= t; monkey to do our job. And I don't want to hear from everyone
saying it's= an
art form, we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah,= blah,
blah... I work where they are hiring people from a m= asters
degree
program for histology with certification, THEY KN= OW NOTHING.
Experience it
where it's at, whether certified or n= ot, get off your high horse.
=
= gt;
[5]Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
[6]http://lists.utso= uthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
__= _
Histonet mailing list
= [7]Histonet@lists.utsout= hwestern.edu
[8]http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/hi= stonet
--
*Dav= id Costanzo, MHS, PA (ASCP)*
Project Manager
*Blufrog Path = Lab Solutions
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Dorothy R. Glass, BS,HTL(ASCP),IHC You are so right about the good old days when you would prove who you were and sit for a paper not computer exam at a medical school close to you. I sat for the HTL in 1988. I was so proud to call myself a Histologist after being trained at a School of Histotechnology and being ASCP certified. NOW you have people on the job trained just referring to themselves casually as histotects. Not histo trainees. Unfortunate for us older techs, it is very offensive considering what we went through in establishing a career not just a job. Some reference labs is focusing on hiring aids to later, after a few months train them and refer to them as histotechs. I hate it when the term is used so freely. Sinserely, frustrated HTL David Kemler histot...@yahoo.com wrote: Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking the HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASCP, because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total of 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I still only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Florida and call myself a histologist. In those days ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's, BT's, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You chose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you needed to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examining college on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given) that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before you were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was a challenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or you were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - they were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium that day n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortunately, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, if you were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so today. Yours, Dave Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, certification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States require some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never heard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. -The way I understand through what I’ve been taught at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that... -To study tissue there is another science that prepares specimens so they can be studied. And that... -There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that verifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the tissue can be studied. And that… In order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much more. If I understood it all correctly I can’t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this crucial preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for precise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to have some method that can gage a set of basic skills to indicate a level of competency that HT/HTL's should initially have, in order to enter the field of work that can effect so many people either directly or indirectly? And also... Wouldn’t having NAACLS accredited training and ASCP Certifications serve to gage those basic skills? And also… Would gaging basic skills have a positive impact on the quality of patient care and the efficiency of the HT/HTL’s impact on labs?” I'm not sure but...this fall… when I complete my NAACLS accredited degree program, and voluntarily take the ASCP HTL certification exam, my future employer will be able to expect a certain level of competency that I hope to have established through training and certification. Rick T. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From: Rick Tiefenauer gonavy2...@gmail.com To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Good stuff. In the old days, 36 years ago for me, taking the HT(ASCP) exam it was said that you were registered by the ASCP, because the designation HT is given by the Board of Registry of the ASCP. Many of the NEW folks use the word certified. After a total of 39 years (3 years was training before you were eligible) I still only use registered by the ASCP / Licensed by the State of Florida and call myself a histologist. In those days ( long before the Internet), you took your ASCP exam (HT's, MT's, CT's, BT's, MLT's) at specially selected medical schools across the US. You chose the one giving the exam which was closest to where you lived. If you needed to drive 100 miles or further to get to the examining college on March 15 OR August 15th, (the only dates it was given) that's what you did. Getting into the exam auditorium before you were allowed to sit (that's what it was called) for the exam, was a challenge. You had to prove that you were who you said you were or you were not getting in. Once those guarded doors were closed - they were CLOSED! I saw several folks crying outside the auditorium that day n 1975. Chances for cheating were eliminated at every turn. Unfortunately, not so today. So you can see why for us older techs, if you were HT(ASCP) it really meant something. Unfortunately, not so today. Yours, Dave Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, certification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States require some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never heard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. -The way I understand through what I’ve been taught at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that... -To study tissue there is another science that prepares specimens so they can be studied. And that... -There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that verifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the tissue can be studied. And that… In order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much more. If I understood it all correctly I can’t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this crucial preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for precise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to have some method that can gage a set of basic skills to indicate a level of competency that HT/HTL's should initially have, in order to enter the field of work that can effect so many people either directly or indirectly? And also... Wouldn’t having NAACLS accredited training and ASCP Certifications serve to gage those basic skills? And also… Would gaging basic skills have a positive impact on the quality of patient care and the efficiency of the HT/HTL’s impact on labs?” I'm not sure but...this fall… when I complete my NAACLS accredited degree program, and voluntarily take the ASCP HTL certification exam, my future employer will be able to expect a certain level of competency that I hope to have established through training and certification. Rick T. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet From: Rick Tiefenauer gonavy2...@gmail.com To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:52 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, certification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States require some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never heard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. -The way I understand through what I’ve been taught at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that... -To study tissue there is another science that prepares specimens so they can be studied. And that... -There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that verifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the tissue can be studied. And that… In order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much more. If I understood it all correctly I can’t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this crucial preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for precise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to have some method that can gage a set of basic skills to indicate a level of competency that HT/HTL's should initially have, in order to enter the field of work that can effect so many people either directly or indirectly? And also... Wouldn’t having NAACLS accredited training and ASCP Certifications serve to gage those basic skills? And also… Would gaging basic skills have a positive impact on the quality of patient care and the efficiency of the HT/HTL’s impact on labs?” I'm not sure but...this fall… when I complete my NAACLS accredited degree program, and voluntarily take the ASCP HTL certification exam, my future employer will be able to expect a certain level of competency that I hope to have established through training and certification. Rick T. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Well said. Everyone should aim for certification. Those that don't will offer myriad excuses, but it should be the standard. With any luck it will be required one day (likely will). Whether OJT or college trained, all should prove competency and the best way is through ASCP certification. Sent from my Windows Phone From: Rick Tiefenauer Sent: 5/26/2012 9:52 AM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs Histonetters, I see this subject tends to illicit strong sentiments from professionals who are impacted or have an impact on HT/HTL's (sort of everyone on the net)?. I am still in school, but I want to fully understand how training, certification, and registration work for HT/HTL’s. I realize that ASCP certification is voluntary, and that some States require some sort of license or certification, but I’ve never heard of a “Registry” for HT/HTL’s. -The way I understand through what I’ve been taught at school is that Histology is the study of tissue, And that... -To study tissue there is another science that prepares specimens so they can be studied. And that... -There is a final sequence “Quality Control” that verifies the science that prpares specimens is properly done so the tissue can be studied. And that… In order for this all to happen successfully and consistently, the HT/HTL's make sure that during the whole preparation process, safety is observed, proper adherence to federal and state regulations maintained, plus train other technicians to do the same, and much more. If I understood it all correctly I can’t help but wonder: If HT/HTL's do all of this crucial preparation work to make sure specimens are acceptable for precise microscopic identification of cells, tissue type, diagnosis of disease, and other needs: Why wouldn't we want to have some method that can gage a set of basic skills to indicate a level of competency that HT/HTL's should initially have, in order to enter the field of work that can effect so many people either directly or indirectly? And also... Wouldn’t having NAACLS accredited training and ASCP Certifications serve to gage those basic skills? And also… Would gaging basic skills have a positive impact on the quality of patient care and the efficiency of the HT/HTL’s impact on labs?” I'm not sure but...this fall… when I complete my NAACLS accredited degree program, and voluntarily take the ASCP HTL certification exam, my future employer will be able to expect a certain level of competency that I hope to have established through training and certification. Rick T. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
LOL, I was waiting for this thread to turn into a fist fight. I knew it would. A Fl Licensed HTL is someone who oviously had to take more test than a ASCP certified tech if they got it from 19 years ago. How do I know, I'm one of those who had to take all those test way back then. Florida is pretty stringent who can do what with what. Not as much as they used to be, because now the only route is through ASCP. You will not work in a hospital as a histologist without a Fl License. Maybe in a exclusive provider private office, but that is the only exception. As far as Monkeys. Whew! I think that's whats wrong with our profession, one thing anyway. Too many people veiw it that way. Personally I wish the Histo programs would go back to teaching on campus with using the MLT course comparison. Not to bash anyone who is either involved or has been involved with the internet programs that have popped up everywhere, but I'm not seeing the same level of technical skill or knowledge come out of these programs. I'm sure there are many super students who do get it, but many times they are pushed through on thier short rotations and used as gophers etc and dont have the skills even sometimes to cut a block. And forget about knowing what a good control for a GMS is. I'd like to see our profession go back to min AS degrees in Histology. The certification only have hurt us and the pay scale is changing I feel because of it. Also, if you really want to promote our field and improve it, be supportive of your state going to a license for our practice. ASCP supports states requiring license. Thats my 2cents for the day. Happy Friday! :) Kim D From: William Chappell cha...@yahoo.com To: Davide Costanzo pathloc...@gmail.com Cc: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say something. Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horribly crass way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two types of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those who have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the other, both are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of Histonetters -- especially avid contributors are in the latter group. I know I am. Histotechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed, cut, stain and go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not committed to expanding the field or doing more than is needed to provide the pathologist with a perfect slide. Jay refers to these people as no better than trained monkeys. That is a horrible insult with a small (very small) grain of truth. One day those histologists will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The march of progress is unstoppable. The career histologist has a much longer life span however. We analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understand or endeavor to learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY how a Rabbit Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and special stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments that will replace the first group in the future. Jay, that is why so many are offended. We don't do this simply because it is a good paycheck. We are histologists because we are professionals who choose this career. You may be going to a job cutting slides (which is great and necessary), but we are enjoying our life. Will Chappell, HTL (ASCP), QIHC, MBA and histologist by choice, not accident On May 24, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Davide Costanzo wrote: I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... is so upsetting I cannot sit back and listen to that without saying something! Everyone, regardless of their lot in life, is a very worthwhile part of the whole. Let me ask you a question, since you highly undervalue humans that are not MD's - let's say that you are a patient at Hospital X, and you go in to have your toenail removed. Who plays a more important role in your survival - the Podiatrist or the hospital janitor? I would argue that the janitor is more crucial in this instance, for if he/she fails to clean up the MRSA from the last patient you could conceivably die. The doctor solved your fungal problem, but the janitor prevented you from getting a potentially life-threatening infection. Think before you speak like that - everyone involved in your care is critical - and, yes, sometimes the doctor is not the most important person when it comes to keeping you alive and well! On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Jay Lundgren jaylundg...@gmail.com wrote: Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Than you Jackie. That was the point I was trying to make. I like my job and I hate it when researchers think anyone can do histology, yet even though the MD has to have us tell him or his Post-docs what they need or do not need. Bernce Bernice Frederick HTL (ASCP) Senior Research Tech Pathology Core Facility ECOGPCO-RL Robert. H. Lurie Cancer Center Northwestern University 710 N Fairbanks Court Olson 8-421 Chicago,IL 60611 312-503-3723 b-freder...@northwestern.edu -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jackie O'Connor Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:09 PM To: cha...@yahoo.com; pathloc...@gmail.com Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs I've personally tried to train monkeys to do this - they suck at it. I've trained a lot of histotechs, and learned early on that not just any Joe Schmo can do this job (my apologies to any real Joe Schmo's out there). There is a certain skill level and intelligence needed to perform good microtomy, optimize and antibody, or troubleshoot a special stain. I've been in labs where people were just told 'this is a block, put it in the holder on that machine, crank the handle as fast as you can, and pick up what comes off. LITERALLY. This is a skill, and it requires talent. To be good at it requires intelligence and good training. To be great at it requires desire. You're really lucky if you love your job, and I do love this work.I can clicker train monkeys and dogs, but not histotechs. Jackie O' -Original Message- From: William Chappell cha...@yahoo.com To: Davide Costanzo pathloc...@gmail.com Cc: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say something. Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horribly crass way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two types of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those who have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the other, both are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of Histonetters -- especially avid contributors are in the latter group. I know I am. Histotechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed, cut, stain and go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not committed to expanding the field or doing more than is needed to provide the pathologist with a perfect slide. Jay refers to these people as no better than trained monkeys. That is a horrible insult with a small (very small) grain of truth. One day those histologists will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The march of progress is unstoppable. The career histologist has a much longer life span however. We analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understand or endeavor to learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY how a Rabbit Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and special stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments that will replace the first group in the future. Jay, that is why so many are offended. We don't do this simply because it is a good paycheck. We are histologists because we are professionals who choose this career. You may be going to a job cutting slides (which is great and necessary), but we are enjoying our life. Will Chappell, HTL (ASCP), QIHC, MBA and histologist by choice, not accident On May 24, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Davide Costanzo wrote: I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... is so upsetting I cannot sit back and listen to that without saying something! Everyone, regardless of their lot in life, is a very worthwhile part of the whole. Let me ask you a question, since you highly undervalue humans that are not MD's - let's say that you are a patient at Hospital X, and you go in to have your toenail removed. Who plays a more important role in your survival - the Podiatrist or the hospital janitor? I would argue that the janitor is more crucial in this instance, for if he/she fails to clean up the MRSA from the last patient you could conceivably die. The doctor solved your fungal problem, but the janitor prevented you from getting a potentially life-threatening infection. Think before you speak like that - everyone involved in your care is critical - and, yes, sometimes the doctor is not the most important person when it comes to keeping you alive and well! On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Jay Lundgren jaylundg...@gmail.com wrote: Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make diagnoses or treat patients. I am a registered HT and a Florida
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
LOL, I dont have much to say about this one. Like you Kim I have a fl HTL license and an HT ASCP. I have two classes left before I complete my BSH and will be able to sit for my ASCP HTL. I have 12yrs of experience but that is not reconginized in the eyes of licensure for ASCP. I do believe my skill level should determine my licensure status not the degree I hold. Because I promise every class im taking rt now means nothing towards my field. The word histology has not even be written in any of the books im studying. I think OJT techs are just as qualified as any person who completed an online programs, if not more so. I completed an online histology program and learned my skills from other people in the bizz with alot of experience who were willing to train me and be patient. Never one time did I question their, experience, licensure, or training. The OJTs carried Histology through the transisition of licensure and passed the skills and knowlegde on to us young bucks to carry the torch. That is all...lol Nicole Tatum HT ASCP (hahaha soon to be HTL ASCP) :)~~~ LOL, I was waiting for this thread to turn into a fist fight. I knew it would. A Fl Licensed HTL is someone who oviously had to take more test than a ASCP certified tech if they got it from 19 years ago. How do I know, I'm one of those who had to take all those test way back then. Florida is pretty stringent who can do what with what. Not as much as they used to be, because now the only route is through ASCP. You will not work in a hospital as a histologist without a Fl License. Maybe in a exclusive provider private office, but that is the only exception. As far as Monkeys. Whew! I think that's whats wrong with our profession, one thing anyway. Too many people veiw it that way. Personally I wish the Histo programs would go back to teaching on campus with using the MLT course comparison. Not to bash anyone who is either involved or has been involved with the internet programs that have popped up everywhere, but I'm not seeing the same level of technical skill or knowledge come out of these programs. I'm sure there are many super students who do get it, but many times they are pushed through on thier short rotations and used as gophers etc and dont have the skills even sometimes to cut a block. And forget about knowing what a good control for a GMS is. I'd like to see our profession go back to min AS degrees in Histology. The certification only have hurt us and the pay scale is changing I feel because of it. Also, if you really want to promote our field and improve it, be supportive of your state going to a license for our practice. ASCP supports states requiring license. Thats my 2cents for the day. Happy Friday! :) Kim D From: William Chappell cha...@yahoo.com To: Davide Costanzo pathloc...@gmail.com Cc: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 7:02 PM Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say something. Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horribly crass way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two types of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those who have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the other, both are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of Histonetters -- especially avid contributors are in the latter group. I know I am. Histotechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed, cut, stain and go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not committed to expanding the field or doing more than is needed to provide the pathologist with a perfect slide. Jay refers to these people as no better than trained monkeys. That is a horrible insult with a small (very small) grain of truth. One day those histologists will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The march of progress is unstoppable. The career histologist has a much longer life span however. We analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understand or endeavor to learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY how a Rabbit Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and special stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments that will replace the first group in the future. Jay, that is why so many are offended. We don't do this simply because it is a good paycheck. We are histologists because we are professionals who choose this career. You may be going to a job cutting slides (which is great and necessary), but we are enjoying our life. Will Chappell, HTL (ASCP), QIHC, MBA and histologist by choice, not accident On May 24, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Davide Costanzo wrote: I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we are just as much needed
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Jay did not make the monkey comment. Maybe I could have made that more clear. Scott Lyons made the monkey comment, not Jay. Jay does not use the m word to refer to friends and colleagues. Sincerely, Jay A. Lundgren M.S., HTL (ASCP) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
[Histonet] Unregistered techs
Question 1: Why do health care organizations NOT hire unlicensed Physicians? Answer: Because of the maelstrom of malpractice suits, civil and criminal laws they would be breaking, ruined careers, prison, orphaned children etc. Question 2: Why do supervisors/lab managers hire unregistered (see previous posts) histotechs? Answer: Because they can pay them $12/hr instead of $30/hr. Many of them receive hefty bonuses for controlling costs. They get away with it. The most brilliant Pathologist in the world could NEVER EVEN SEE a malignancy that was rough cut away by an unqualified histotech. Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL(ASCP) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Ok. I have to chime in on this one. Jay, I see your point. I'm neutral on this subject. I work with an unregistered tech (30yrs on the bench) and her work is excellent. For whatever reason she missed the dead line for the change on the OJT route on entry. I have worked with registered techs out there that do crappy work. So what is the difference between registered vs unregistered when it comes to their skills? Unregistered doesn't necessarily mean unqualified. Sent from the iPhone of Kim Tournear. On May 24, 2012, at 1:40 PM, Jay Lundgren jaylundg...@gmail.com wrote: Question 1: Why do health care organizations NOT hire unlicensed Physicians? Answer: Because of the maelstrom of malpractice suits, civil and criminal laws they would be breaking, ruined careers, prison, orphaned children etc. Question 2: Why do supervisors/lab managers hire unregistered (see previous posts) histotechs? Answer: Because they can pay them $12/hr instead of $30/hr. Many of them receive hefty bonuses for controlling costs. They get away with it. The most brilliant Pathologist in the world could NEVER EVEN SEE a malignancy that was rough cut away by an unqualified histotech. Jay A. Lundgren, M.S., HTL(ASCP) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make diagnoses or treat patients. I am a registered HT and a Florida licensed HTL with 19 years experience, I've done it all in the lab. I believe the certification and licensure of techs is a scam to bleed more money from people. Honestly, you can train a monkey to do our job. And I don't want to hear from everyone saying it's an art form, we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... I work where they are hiring people from a masters degree program for histology with certification, THEY KNOW NOTHING. Experience it where it's at, whether certified or not, get off your high horse. Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Oh someone is going to get BLASTED and I'm so glad it's not me this time! But I have to say Shame shame for suggesting a monkey can do that job. Doesn't speak well of your work, but most techs I know are very talented. I can't do their work, and I like to think I am a little more evolved than a monkey. At least an ape for crying out loud! Sent from my Windows Phone From: Jay Lundgren Sent: 5/24/2012 2:02 PM To: Kim Tournear Cc: histonet Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make diagnoses or treat patients. I am a registered HT and a Florida licensed HTL with 19 years experience, I've done it all in the lab. I believe the certification and licensure of techs is a scam to bleed more money from people. Honestly, you can train a monkey to do our job. And I don't want to hear from everyone saying it's an art form, we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... I work where they are hiring people from a masters degree program for histology with certification, THEY KNOW NOTHING. Experience it where it's at, whether certified or not, get off your high horse. Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... is so upsetting I cannot sit back and listen to that without saying something! Everyone, regardless of their lot in life, is a very worthwhile part of the whole. Let me ask you a question, since you highly undervalue humans that are not MD's - let's say that you are a patient at Hospital X, and you go in to have your toenail removed. Who plays a more important role in your survival - the Podiatrist or the hospital janitor? I would argue that the janitor is more crucial in this instance, for if he/she fails to clean up the MRSA from the last patient you could conceivably die. The doctor solved your fungal problem, but the janitor prevented you from getting a potentially life-threatening infection. Think before you speak like that - everyone involved in your care is critical - and, yes, sometimes the doctor is not the most important person when it comes to keeping you alive and well! On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Jay Lundgren jaylundg...@gmail.com wrote: Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make diagnoses or treat patients. I am a registered HT and a Florida licensed HTL with 19 years experience, I've done it all in the lab. I believe the certification and licensure of techs is a scam to bleed more money from people. Honestly, you can train a monkey to do our job. And I don't want to hear from everyone saying it's an art form, we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... I work where they are hiring people from a masters degree program for histology with certification, THEY KNOW NOTHING. Experience it where it's at, whether certified or not, get off your high horse. Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- *David Costanzo, MHS, PA (ASCP)* Project Manager *Blufrog Path Lab Solutions* 9401 Wilshire Blvd. Ste 650 Beverly Hills, CA 90212 ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say something. Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horribly crass way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two types of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those who have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the other, both are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of Histonetters -- especially avid contributors are in the latter group. I know I am. Histotechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed, cut, stain and go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not committed to expanding the field or doing more than is needed to provide the pathologist with a perfect slide. Jay refers to these people as no better than trained monkeys. That is a horrible insult with a small (very small) grain of truth. One day those histologists will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The march of progress is unstoppable. The career histologist has a much longer life span however. We analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understand or endeavor to learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY how a Rabbit Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and special stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments that will replace the first group in the future. Jay, that is why so many are offended. We don't do this simply because it is a good paycheck. We are histologists because we are professionals who choose this career. You may be going to a job cutting slides (which is great and necessary), but we are enjoying our life. Will Chappell, HTL (ASCP), QIHC, MBA and histologist by choice, not accident On May 24, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Davide Costanzo wrote: I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... is so upsetting I cannot sit back and listen to that without saying something! Everyone, regardless of their lot in life, is a very worthwhile part of the whole. Let me ask you a question, since you highly undervalue humans that are not MD's - let's say that you are a patient at Hospital X, and you go in to have your toenail removed. Who plays a more important role in your survival - the Podiatrist or the hospital janitor? I would argue that the janitor is more crucial in this instance, for if he/she fails to clean up the MRSA from the last patient you could conceivably die. The doctor solved your fungal problem, but the janitor prevented you from getting a potentially life-threatening infection. Think before you speak like that - everyone involved in your care is critical - and, yes, sometimes the doctor is not the most important person when it comes to keeping you alive and well! On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Jay Lundgren jaylundg...@gmail.com wrote: Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make diagnoses or treat patients. I am a registered HT and a Florida licensed HTL with 19 years experience, I've done it all in the lab. I believe the certification and licensure of techs is a scam to bleed more money from people. Honestly, you can train a monkey to do our job. And I don't want to hear from everyone saying it's an art form, we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... I work where they are hiring people from a masters degree program for histology with certification, THEY KNOW NOTHING. Experience it where it's at, whether certified or not, get off your high horse. Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet -- *David Costanzo, MHS, PA (ASCP)* Project Manager *Blufrog Path Lab Solutions* 9401 Wilshire Blvd. Ste 650 Beverly Hills, CA 90212 ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Holy buckets, that's a shot below the belt! Must say, I'm quite surprised to see a comment like that from someone with 19 years experience. By the by, I understand the registered HT thing, what is a Florida licensed HTL? Is that something new? But I digress. I can see your point about the scam/bleed money thing, but that's another discussion. You think monkeys can be trained to do histology...well, you're entitled to your opinion. However, the validity of an opinion depends on its basis. In my opinion monkeys cannot be trained to do our job. I'm quite certain that everything I did in the lab today (before returning to my office, reading this post and writing my response) would be challenging for a lot of folks...pathologists included...let alone a smart monkey. I'm a bit confused seeing the name Scott Lyons in the post below, so I don't want to direct my response to the wrong person. If this is indeed you, Jay, I've read many of your posts in the past. In consideration of that, I'm thinking maybe you're exaggerating to make a point, maybe having/had a bad day or both. I agree there is no substitute for experience. And I agree that many people with advanced degrees can be all thumbs in a lab, or maybe have a hard time transitioning book learning into hands on action. Come to think of it monkeys are pretty dexterous...so maybe we're taking this all wrong. I'm not responding to light someone up or get into a war or words with. I'll just say that I hold those of us doing this work in high regard, monkey or not. And that includes you too Jay...I've not met you personally, but honestly you're no monkey. Regards, Tom Jasper Thomas Jasper HT (ASCP) BAS Histology Supervisor Central Oregon Regional Pathology Services Bend, Oregon 97701 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Jay Lundgren Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:02 PM To: Kim Tournear Cc: histonet Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make diagnoses or treat patients. I am a registered HT and a Florida licensed HTL with 19 years experience, I've done it all in the lab. I believe the certification and licensure of techs is a scam to bleed more money from people. Honestly, you can train a monkey to do our job. And I don't want to hear from everyone saying it's an art form, we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... I work where they are hiring people from a masters degree program for histology with certification, THEY KNOW NOTHING. Experience it where it's at, whether certified or not, get off your high horse. Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
Let me add more fuel to this fire. Will makes strong points. I have been in this field over 35 years ( has it been that long) Any way. I have worked in and have managed many labs. I have had registered and unregistered techs. Some good, some not so good, some I told that their talents would be better served in another career field. Some people in histology come for the pay, others for a career. However, I have seen some clinicians, nurses and other healthcare providers do the same. I went to a neurologist once (emphasis on once). I was trying to explain to him my lengthy previous medical history, which has been plagued by heart problems for years. He was not interested in that. He wanted to get me in and get me out within the 15 minute time limit. My point is this: I don't care what job you do, there are going to be people who look at it as a job, others look at as a career. My youngest sister had some cognitive issues. She worked at minimum wage jobs all her life. One job was at a laundry mat that had several large accounts. I met her for lunch one day before I joined the Air Force. I watched her fold sheets so tight that they looked like you would cut your fingers on them if you ran them across the creases. I asked her why she took so much care in folding the sheets. She looked at me and said Joey, I do it because anything you do, you have to do it good. If you ain't gonna do it good, don't do it at all. I still carry that notion and I hope I have passed that idea onto my children. When I was in Basic Training, making my bunk, I would always think of that day with my sister. Consider yourself lucky if you work with more people who think Histology as a career rather than just a job. I always do. I'll get off my soap box now and return you to regular programing. Joe Nocito -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of William Chappell Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:03 PM To: Davide Costanzo Cc: histonet Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say something. Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horribly crass way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two types of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those who have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the other, both are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of Histonetters -- especially avid contributors are in the latter group. I know I am. Histotechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed, cut, stain and go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not committed to expanding the field or doing more than is needed to provide the pathologist with a perfect slide. Jay refers to these people as no better than trained monkeys. That is a horrible insult with a small (very small) grain of truth. One day those histologists will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The march of progress is unstoppable. The career histologist has a much longer life span however. We analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understand or endeavor to learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY how a Rabbit Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and special stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments that will replace the first group in the future. Jay, that is why so many are offended. We don't do this simply because it is a good paycheck. We are histologists because we are professionals who choose this career. You may be going to a job cutting slides (which is great and necessary), but we are enjoying our life. Will Chappell, HTL (ASCP), QIHC, MBA and histologist by choice, not accident On May 24, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Davide Costanzo wrote: I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... is so upsetting I cannot sit back and listen to that without saying something! Everyone, regardless of their lot in life, is a very worthwhile part of the whole. Let me ask you a question, since you highly undervalue humans that are not MD's - let's say that you are a patient at Hospital X, and you go in to have your toenail removed. Who plays a more important role in your survival - the Podiatrist or the hospital janitor? I would argue that the janitor is more crucial in this instance, for if he/she fails to clean up the MRSA from the last patient you could conceivably die. The doctor solved your fungal problem, but the janitor prevented you from getting a potentially life-threatening infection. Think before you speak like that - everyone involved in your care is critical - and, yes, sometimes the doctor is not the most important person when it comes to keeping you alive and well! On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:01
Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs
I've personally tried to train monkeys to do this - they suck at it. I've trained a lot of histotechs, and learned early on that not just any Joe Schmo can do this job (my apologies to any real Joe Schmo's out there). There is a certain skill level and intelligence needed to perform good microtomy, optimize and antibody, or troubleshoot a special stain. I've been in labs where people were just told 'this is a block, put it in the holder on that machine, crank the handle as fast as you can, and pick up what comes off. LITERALLY. This is a skill, and it requires talent. To be good at it requires intelligence and good training. To be great at it requires desire. You're really lucky if you love your job, and I do love this work.I can clicker train monkeys and dogs, but not histotechs. Jackie O' -Original Message- From: William Chappell cha...@yahoo.com To: Davide Costanzo pathloc...@gmail.com Cc: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Thu, May 24, 2012 6:02 pm Subject: Re: [Histonet] Unregistered techs I have respected Jay's input in the past, but I too must say something. Without realizing it, and by stating his opinion in a horribly crass way, Jay has touched upon an important truism. There are two types of histologists, those that have a job that pays the bills, and those who have a career in which they thrive. Neither are better than the other, both are needed. I suspect, however, that the majority of Histonetters -- especially avid contributors are in the latter group. I know I am. Histotechs who approach histology as a job, go into work, embed, cut, stain and go home. they are excellent techs, but are just not committed to expanding the field or doing more than is needed to provide the pathologist with a perfect slide. Jay refers to these people as no better than trained monkeys. That is a horrible insult with a small (very small) grain of truth. One day those histologists will be replaced by a mechanical/robotic process. The march of progress is unstoppable. The career histologist has a much longer life span however. We analyze and troubleshoot problems. We understand or endeavor to learn the organic chemistry of stains. We know EXACTLY how a Rabbit Monoclonal antibody is made. We know more about the practice of histology than ANY pathologist. We invent and develop antibodies and special stains. And we conceptualize and perfect the instruments that will replace the first group in the future. Jay, that is why so many are offended. We don't do this simply because it is a good paycheck. We are histologists because we are professionals who choose this career. You may be going to a job cutting slides (which is great and necessary), but we are enjoying our life. Will Chappell, HTL (ASCP), QIHC, MBA and histologist by choice, not accident On May 24, 2012, at 6:48 PM, Davide Costanzo wrote: I'm sorry - I cannot let this rest. The comment: we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... is so upsetting I cannot sit back and listen to that without saying something! Everyone, regardless of their lot in life, is a very worthwhile part of the whole. Let me ask you a question, since you highly undervalue humans that are not MD's - let's say that you are a patient at Hospital X, and you go in to have your toenail removed. Who plays a more important role in your survival - the Podiatrist or the hospital janitor? I would argue that the janitor is more crucial in this instance, for if he/she fails to clean up the MRSA from the last patient you could conceivably die. The doctor solved your fungal problem, but the janitor prevented you from getting a potentially life-threatening infection. Think before you speak like that - everyone involved in your care is critical - and, yes, sometimes the doctor is not the most important person when it comes to keeping you alive and well! On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:01 PM, Jay Lundgren jaylundg...@gmail.com wrote: Scott Lyons sln...@yahoo.com Give me a break, HTs and HTLs do not make diagnoses or treat patients. I am a registered HT and a Florida licensed HTL with 19 years experience, I've done it all in the lab. I believe the certification and licensure of techs is a scam to bleed more money from people. Honestly, you can train a monkey to do our job. And I don't want to hear from everyone saying it's an art form, we are just as much needed as pathologists, blah, blah, blah... I work where they are hiring people from a masters degree program for histology with certification, THEY KNOW NOTHING. Experience it where it's at, whether certified or not, get off your high horse. Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http
