Re: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
This is just normal in a forum. I wouldn't give it too much. HL coding issues are still discussed, there is just more discussion about moral at the moment. And I don't think this is bad. (Almost) everyone here codes and hacking, cracking, 'lending sourcecode' when it is Half-Life is *big* news for the people on this list. It's only natural that a big discussion arouse. But if someone has a serious question I think it has priority for everyone here (right? :]). What I don't know is how full your mail box is already with 'spam' and I know how annoying unwanted mail can be. (A week ago I had my 20MB mail account full after a day from two lame coded 140/150 KB worms, until I created a looong filter for all their 'subjects') Marco Am Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:05:02 -0500 hat Jeffrey "botman" Broome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> geschrieben: Charlie Cleveland wrote: Keep in mind this is supposed to be a mailing list for people who WANT to code for Half-life, not a place to get up on your high-horse and preach, or a place to nitpick hacker definitions. Let's get back on topic please. Yeah, good luck with that suggestion! ;) -- Jeffrey "botman" Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] a sub models
Somewhere on this list someone said something that they had a solution to allow you have more then the default fixed numbers of sub models. does anyone know this solution? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] the dead is horse, yet
Enough for me. I am sorry for my complains, this is a nice coders mail list, or its the target. So.. I will forget all about and return to make more bluffy suggestions to the HL2 team or HL1 modders here. Return to the roots. :] --Tei posdata1: I have send a mail to the webmaster of valvesoftware because a severe security flaw revealing internal paths. I hope will receive the mail and fix the problem. Cool to help Valve to enforce security. posdata2: I FINNALY FOUND XHVIS! Read about: <> Its compiled for Q1, but I think will be easy to change the HL2 tool for the same use. For top-down view mods (Rpg alike) can be cool, as will force a very small PVS or something ( I am not expert ). For this type of mods will boosth fps a lot (will render only a small section of the map, and not what normally a FPS will render). The file is here: http://slightly.quakesrc.org/realindex.php?view=file Good Modding. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
Charlie Cleveland wrote: Keep in mind this is supposed to be a mailing list for people who WANT to code for Half-life, not a place to get up on your high-horse and preach, or a place to nitpick hacker definitions. Let's get back on topic please. Yeah, good luck with that suggestion! ;) -- Jeffrey "botman" Broome ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Re: Open Letter To Hacker Community
- Original Message - From: "Pat Magnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:13 PM Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Re: Open Letter To Hacker Community > And 'good ole quake I'.. people complain that the Halflife engine is dated, > quake I rendering with significant improvements in many areas like > networking, animation, etc etc (essentially what Halflife is), is surely > dated as well, if we need new BSP formats for HL2, it's about time. I'm > sick of hearing level designers bitching about being limited, and I think > the new BSP format will STILL be limiting, but hopefully not so severely > so. Hopefully enough so to give me a few months reprieve before the artists > start bitching all over again (because we all know they will... ). BSP is becoming dated anyways, its main use was back when we had software renders and it made rendering without a z-buffer alot faster, now adays people are starting to drop BSP in favour of other systems such as octtress, ABT and virants on them, which are better suited to the new kinds of enviroments ppl want to make such as large open areas, jungles etc which dont have the 'box room' style partioning that BSP is perfectly suited for. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
Good point.. tei, I am trying to be as inoffensive as possible, but it's not really possible here, if you're a merely a gamer, this is NOT the list for you. There are Quake I lists, and probably Halflife fans lists &c, if you want to see what we talk about you're welcome to lurk, but a few of you new folks on the list have been taking things WAY off topic. We don't give a hoot what you can or can't do in Quake I, or any other engine, we ask each other and the VALVe folks when they have time how you do stuff in Halflife. Technical questions, if you've never looked at the SDK or done it yourself, you're not really qualified to comment.. Now how do I retract my last post? :p At 02:07 PM 10/10/2003 -0400, you wrote: Keep in mind this is supposed to be a mailing list for people who WANT to code for Half-life, not a place to get up on your high-horse and preach, or a place to nitpick hacker definitions. Let's get back on topic please. -Charlie -- Charlie Cleveland Game programmer and designer http://www.natural-selection.org http://overmind.org - Original Message - From: "tei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Phil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community > Hello Phil, > > > P> Firstly, I would encourage you to get your definition of 'hacker' correct > P> before you start shaking your finger at them. > > "Open Letter to Hacker Community" was better than > > "Open Letter to Hacker, Cracker, ScriptKiddie, Virii, Troyan Makers > etc... people". > > I know hacker mean a guy soo good at coding/system that can write no-obvious > workarounds for problems not-soluble other way. > > Hollywood is redefining hacker has "system cracker". > > > >> I think Valve is triing to become the next Microsoft. The Steam tools > >> is crappy, and damage users gameplay with delays and failures, and > >> restrict singleplayer ability. Its the first step of a highly > >> dangerous technology to damage freedom: DRM. > > P> How have they done any of that? That is just your personal experience. It > P> hasn't changed the way that authentication is done, it hasn't introduced any > P> new DRM, it hasn't restricted anything that you couldn't do before. > P> All it is, is a new way to deliver Valve's content, authenticate to the servers > P> (which were WON until Steam) and update the games. > > I dont want to comments the negative points, but... > > Not true: > > You have to use the same tool (Steam), you can't use 3th party > tools, better tools than Steam. Bye Bye GameSpy, QTracker,... > > You can't still LAN or SP offline (will be fixed soon). > You can't hack files into cache, but you can hack files into pak > files. Ok, only power users and hackers care about, but the letter > was address to this people... > > Everything is now imprisioned and buried inside Steam. The tool that > access/able everything IF valve want Hopefully you can still > directly access the hl.exe executable to lauch games :] > > This is somewhat like these TCPA .doc files. If Valve want to forbid > "Mod Bart Simpson" can remake a new version that disable that mod, and > "withouth consent" download to all users computers. > > This is not a problem for me, but I am not a hacker. But I think > hacker will really disagree TCPA alike stuff... > > Maybe hackers will help to fix the Steam limitations. > > >> Valve as work dirty in the past. Unable Quake1 developpers to use > >> both tools and some media into Quake1. > > P> When you take the Q1 engine, mix in stuff from Q2 and your own custom > P> modifications, I'd love to see you do anything like backwards compatability > P> with Q1. Valve licensed the Q1 engine fair and square and had no obligation, > P> need or want to make it backwards compatable. > > Had not obligation other than be fair and make friends. Soo If you > remove Q1 compatibility from Worldcraft... you gain enemys!.. not > good. Ooops... maybe compatibility is droooped ? maybe... but is > forbid at the license AND people as discovered a way to workaround > (HACK HACK HACK) the problem to still use Worldcraft. q1rad is a > quake1 tool to light maps with rendersity... maybe a illegal tool, but > exist. You can also make Q1 maps with Hammer, but Valve forbit it... > > I not like that, but I not blame Valve. I list stuff that hackers > disagree and hate. This is a well know example. Worldcraft, a Q1 map > tool, generate BSP maps, Valve disable that (or drop) and forbid, also > create is own "incompatible" BSP format. But this is also "fake" as is > very easy to enable support for HL maps for Quake1. A lot of Q1 > engines support HL maps. Valve forbid *me*, to upload cs_siege.bsp to > my homepage and share with other files with instructions to copy this > file at /quake/cstrike-ish-mod/maps > > Maybe this was a bussines decision, made to have more profit. Cool!. > But you gain more enemys. More people will become angry. > > > >> Abducting good mods inside > >> (like Counter-Stri
Re: [hlcoders] Re: Open Letter To Hacker Community
- Original Message - From: "tei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Phantom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 6:32 PM Subject: [hlcoders] Re: Open Letter To Hacker Community > > I am interested at HL2 only as gammer. Soo you will find 0 or none > references to hl2 in my messages. > > Hehehehe hehe, opps, that was a typo on my part, i ment HL1 :) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Re: Open Letter To Hacker Community
At 07:32 PM 10/10/2003 +0200, you wrote: >> >> Had not obligation other than be fair and make friends. Soo If you >> remove Q1 compatibility from Worldcraft... you gain enemys!.. not >> good. Ooops... maybe compatibility is droooped ? maybe... but is >> forbid at the license AND people as discovered a way to workaround >> (HACK HACK HACK) the problem to still use Worldcraft. q1rad is a >> quake1 tool to light maps with rendersity... maybe a illegal tool, but >> exist. You can also make Q1 maps with Hammer, but Valve forbit it... P> This is the first time i've seen ANYONE complain about HL2 not supporting P> Quake1 maps (and i know alot of mappers). End of the day this is Valve's P> product, so you either play by their rules or dont play at all. As was P> mentioned they was under no obligation, moneytry or otherwise, to support a P> game by another company in their product. Its a bit like complaining that P> you cant make Quake1 map for UT, different products and different map P> formats. Nope. Complains where about a license that ban tools, SDK source, maps, textures... everything... to use with other engines. Like good old Quake1. Its legit, ok, but is annoying, so people may hate that. I really not care soo much about. But tei, those people are fools, plain and simple. That's like saying that when you buy DukeNukem3D you are expecting to be able to use their CONTENT or file formats to make a mod for Quake I , you bloody well can't, I understand in your case, English is a second language, but you're pretty fluent. Re-read the SDK license, it never ever said anything about doing things for ANY engine but VALVes, nor should it. It's not even logic these people are using, they're just 12 year olds deciding VALVe is the enemy because they have a corporate name, they've outstripped all the competition in the FPS and done something old ID fans may not like, they licensed Quake's tech, made it way better than any Quake or ID release since (apart from using new rendering techniques, which Carmack is a leader at even if he makes the most dull games on the earth), Quake III doesn't have skeletal animations, there's crap you can do in Halflife you STILL can't do in Quake, or RTCW or any ID product. This is all sour grapes. ID had their heyday, but fell from grace when they didn't reorganize their code enough to use things like C++, which made modding infinitetly more achievable for students, and professionals from other fields as well. And 'good ole quake I'.. people complain that the Halflife engine is dated, quake I rendering with significant improvements in many areas like networking, animation, etc etc (essentially what Halflife is), is surely dated as well, if we need new BSP formats for HL2, it's about time. I'm sick of hearing level designers bitching about being limited, and I think the new BSP format will STILL be limiting, but hopefully not so severely so. Hopefully enough so to give me a few months reprieve before the artists start bitching all over again (because we all know they will... ). We've tried every trick in the book to try to do believable jungles in Halflife, it's just hard as pewp. Hopefully with a bit more improved environment like HL2, we'll be able to pull it off more believably (well we just finally stumbled on yet another technique to add some reality to levels, and i'm sure it will carry over to HL2 ;)). I am interested at HL2 only as gammer. Soo you will find 0 or none references to hl2 in my messages. Hehehehe I am sorry for my english. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders Pat 'sluggo' Magnan Tour of Duty mod http://www.tourofdutymod.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
Keep in mind this is supposed to be a mailing list for people who WANT to code for Half-life, not a place to get up on your high-horse and preach, or a place to nitpick hacker definitions. Let's get back on topic please. -Charlie -- Charlie Cleveland Game programmer and designer http://www.natural-selection.org http://overmind.org - Original Message - From: "tei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Phil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community > Hello Phil, > > > P> Firstly, I would encourage you to get your definition of 'hacker' correct > P> before you start shaking your finger at them. > > "Open Letter to Hacker Community" was better than > > "Open Letter to Hacker, Cracker, ScriptKiddie, Virii, Troyan Makers > etc... people". > > I know hacker mean a guy soo good at coding/system that can write no-obvious > workarounds for problems not-soluble other way. > > Hollywood is redefining hacker has "system cracker". > > > >> I think Valve is triing to become the next Microsoft. The Steam tools > >> is crappy, and damage users gameplay with delays and failures, and > >> restrict singleplayer ability. Its the first step of a highly > >> dangerous technology to damage freedom: DRM. > > P> How have they done any of that? That is just your personal experience. It > P> hasn't changed the way that authentication is done, it hasn't introduced any > P> new DRM, it hasn't restricted anything that you couldn't do before. > P> All it is, is a new way to deliver Valve's content, authenticate to the servers > P> (which were WON until Steam) and update the games. > > I dont want to comments the negative points, but... > > Not true: > > You have to use the same tool (Steam), you can't use 3th party > tools, better tools than Steam. Bye Bye GameSpy, QTracker,... > > You can't still LAN or SP offline (will be fixed soon). > You can't hack files into cache, but you can hack files into pak > files. Ok, only power users and hackers care about, but the letter > was address to this people... > > Everything is now imprisioned and buried inside Steam. The tool that > access/able everything IF valve want Hopefully you can still > directly access the hl.exe executable to lauch games :] > > This is somewhat like these TCPA .doc files. If Valve want to forbid > "Mod Bart Simpson" can remake a new version that disable that mod, and > "withouth consent" download to all users computers. > > This is not a problem for me, but I am not a hacker. But I think > hacker will really disagree TCPA alike stuff... > > Maybe hackers will help to fix the Steam limitations. > > >> Valve as work dirty in the past. Unable Quake1 developpers to use > >> both tools and some media into Quake1. > > P> When you take the Q1 engine, mix in stuff from Q2 and your own custom > P> modifications, I'd love to see you do anything like backwards compatability > P> with Q1. Valve licensed the Q1 engine fair and square and had no obligation, > P> need or want to make it backwards compatable. > > Had not obligation other than be fair and make friends. Soo If you > remove Q1 compatibility from Worldcraft... you gain enemys!.. not > good. Ooops... maybe compatibility is droooped ? maybe... but is > forbid at the license AND people as discovered a way to workaround > (HACK HACK HACK) the problem to still use Worldcraft. q1rad is a > quake1 tool to light maps with rendersity... maybe a illegal tool, but > exist. You can also make Q1 maps with Hammer, but Valve forbit it... > > I not like that, but I not blame Valve. I list stuff that hackers > disagree and hate. This is a well know example. Worldcraft, a Q1 map > tool, generate BSP maps, Valve disable that (or drop) and forbid, also > create is own "incompatible" BSP format. But this is also "fake" as is > very easy to enable support for HL maps for Quake1. A lot of Q1 > engines support HL maps. Valve forbid *me*, to upload cs_siege.bsp to > my homepage and share with other files with instructions to copy this > file at /quake/cstrike-ish-mod/maps > > Maybe this was a bussines decision, made to have more profit. Cool!. > But you gain more enemys. More people will become angry. > > > >> Abducting good mods inside > >> (like Counter-Strike). Valve overload the market with his product, > >> that unable oportunitys for other developers. Valve write nazi > >> Licenses. > > P> Abducting? I'm assuming that gooseman agreed to having his MOD commercialised, > P> otherwise Valve faces some serious charges. > > Microsoft Abducting. > > Lotus 1-2-3 => Excel > Wordperfect => Word > Mosaic => IE (builtin) > Winzip => Explorer (builtin) > ftp => Explorer (builtin) > Winamp => Windows Media Player > > Valve Abducting > > Counter-Strike > TeamFortress > ... > (more?) > > Good or Bad? I am not sure. Maybe enhance the mods itself. Good to the > community. But its harder to make other mods. Its a tradeoff. > > P> And where are these nazi licenses, valve are in
Re: [hlcoders] Re: Open Letter To Hacker Community
- Original Message - From: "tei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I am sorry for my english. I feel sorry for it too. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
[hlcoders] Re: Open Letter To Hacker Community
>> >> Had not obligation other than be fair and make friends. Soo If you >> remove Q1 compatibility from Worldcraft... you gain enemys!.. not >> good. Ooops... maybe compatibility is droooped ? maybe... but is >> forbid at the license AND people as discovered a way to workaround >> (HACK HACK HACK) the problem to still use Worldcraft. q1rad is a >> quake1 tool to light maps with rendersity... maybe a illegal tool, but >> exist. You can also make Q1 maps with Hammer, but Valve forbit it... P> This is the first time i've seen ANYONE complain about HL2 not supporting P> Quake1 maps (and i know alot of mappers). End of the day this is Valve's P> product, so you either play by their rules or dont play at all. As was P> mentioned they was under no obligation, moneytry or otherwise, to support a P> game by another company in their product. Its a bit like complaining that P> you cant make Quake1 map for UT, different products and different map P> formats. Nope. Complains where about a license that ban tools, SDK source, maps, textures... everything... to use with other engines. Like good old Quake1. Its legit, ok, but is annoying, so people may hate that. I really not care soo much about. I am interested at HL2 only as gammer. Soo you will find 0 or none references to hl2 in my messages. Hehehehe I am sorry for my english. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
reply intermingled below... - Original Message - From: "tei" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Phil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 2:33 PM Subject: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community > P> How have they done any of that? That is just your personal experience. It > P> hasn't changed the way that authentication is done, it hasn't introduced any > P> new DRM, it hasn't restricted anything that you couldn't do before. > P> All it is, is a new way to deliver Valve's content, authenticate to the servers > P> (which were WON until Steam) and update the games. > > I dont want to comments the negative points, but... > > Not true: > > You have to use the same tool (Steam), you can't use 3th party > tools, better tools than Steam. Bye Bye GameSpy, QTracker,... I hate to point out to you the flaw in this but you can already use ASE to run HL based games to connect to steam servers, yes you have to have steam running in the background to log you in but as it autoruns and autologs you in i hardly see this as an issue. So in effect you can just leave it running in the background and forget about it. If Gamespy, QTracker etc dont update their software to work with Steam then its not Valve's fault. And remember, Steam is going to be used for HL2, so really updating their software would be needed anyways if only because of a new game to be released. > You can't still LAN or SP offline (will be fixed soon). > You can't hack files into cache, but you can hack files into pak > files. Ok, only power users and hackers care about, but the letter > was address to this people... > > Everything is now imprisioned and buried inside Steam. The tool that > access/able everything IF valve want Hopefully you can still > directly access the hl.exe executable to lauch games :] Again, i dont see the issue here, ANY game with an online component which talks to a master server can access ANYTHING on your system could be viewed like this, hell for all you know Gamespy could be sending back your username/password files and cookies everytime you run it to Gamespy, but you have to trust these things are doing only what they need to do and not anything else. > This is somewhat like these TCPA .doc files. If Valve want to forbid > "Mod Bart Simpson" can remake a new version that disable that mod, and > "withouth consent" download to all users computers. By allowing Steam to update files as/when needed you are giving them explicate consent to do what you just described, as to if thats right or wrong or not is another matter, but remember you can disable automatic updates. > >> Valve as work dirty in the past. Unable Quake1 developpers to use > >> both tools and some media into Quake1. > > P> When you take the Q1 engine, mix in stuff from Q2 and your own custom > P> modifications, I'd love to see you do anything like backwards compatability > P> with Q1. Valve licensed the Q1 engine fair and square and had no obligation, > P> need or want to make it backwards compatable. > > Had not obligation other than be fair and make friends. Soo If you > remove Q1 compatibility from Worldcraft... you gain enemys!.. not > good. Ooops... maybe compatibility is droooped ? maybe... but is > forbid at the license AND people as discovered a way to workaround > (HACK HACK HACK) the problem to still use Worldcraft. q1rad is a > quake1 tool to light maps with rendersity... maybe a illegal tool, but > exist. You can also make Q1 maps with Hammer, but Valve forbit it... This is the first time i've seen ANYONE complain about HL2 not supporting Quake1 maps (and i know alot of mappers). End of the day this is Valve's product, so you either play by their rules or dont play at all. As was mentioned they was under no obligation, moneytry or otherwise, to support a game by another company in their product. Its a bit like complaining that you cant make Quake1 map for UT, different products and different map formats. > I not like that, but I not blame Valve. I list stuff that hackers > disagree and hate. This is a well know example. Worldcraft, a Q1 map > tool, generate BSP maps, Valve disable that (or drop) and forbid, also > create is own "incompatible" BSP format. But this is also "fake" as is > very easy to enable support for HL maps for Quake1. A lot of Q1 > engines support HL maps. Valve forbid *me*, to upload cs_siege.bsp to > my homepage and share with other files with instructions to copy this > file at /quake/cstrike-ish-mod/maps I'm guessing the reason for the 'incompatible' BSP format was needed for engine enhancements in HL, which is like complaining that your newly created WordXP document is no longer openable in Word3.0 and there is no reason it should be. The Quake1 engines you speak of have been written from the Opensource code and known HL BSP format loaders, and although they can load HL maps (and i dare say if you created your own HL format BSP files you are allowed to create and use with whatever you want) Va
RE: Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Tei: Well said!!! You are exactly correct with Valve locking out (at least for the moment) 3rd party accessibility, although I believe that this is temporary and will open up eventually. Valves strength was developed by leveraging the 'hacker' community in developing game mods to enhance the online experience. Once the SDK is released, this will become a moot point. I am not one to believe that Valve is becoming another Microsoft. Every company has to develop and progress or die. Valve is doing just that, but there are growing pains. They are NOT creating enemies, but people are impatient and upset. If the game continues to progress in the direction it is and the SDK opens up Steam to the mod developers, then we will all see just how progressive the changes have become. It would be careless and stupid for Valve to lock out or restrict access. This is what made Valve successful to begin with. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", as the old saying goes. Be patient. Everything will open up in time (although the sooner the better). (BTW, your English is surprisingly good, with some exceptions (LOL)!!!) Radi8 ([EMAIL PROTECTED], just an avid player who happens to be a developer) -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re[2]: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
Hello Phil, P> Firstly, I would encourage you to get your definition of 'hacker' correct P> before you start shaking your finger at them. "Open Letter to Hacker Community" was better than "Open Letter to Hacker, Cracker, ScriptKiddie, Virii, Troyan Makers etc... people". I know hacker mean a guy soo good at coding/system that can write no-obvious workarounds for problems not-soluble other way. Hollywood is redefining hacker has "system cracker". >> I think Valve is triing to become the next Microsoft. The Steam tools >> is crappy, and damage users gameplay with delays and failures, and >> restrict singleplayer ability. Its the first step of a highly >> dangerous technology to damage freedom: DRM. P> How have they done any of that? That is just your personal experience. It P> hasn't changed the way that authentication is done, it hasn't introduced any P> new DRM, it hasn't restricted anything that you couldn't do before. P> All it is, is a new way to deliver Valve's content, authenticate to the servers P> (which were WON until Steam) and update the games. I dont want to comments the negative points, but... Not true: You have to use the same tool (Steam), you can't use 3th party tools, better tools than Steam. Bye Bye GameSpy, QTracker,... You can't still LAN or SP offline (will be fixed soon). You can't hack files into cache, but you can hack files into pak files. Ok, only power users and hackers care about, but the letter was address to this people... Everything is now imprisioned and buried inside Steam. The tool that access/able everything IF valve want Hopefully you can still directly access the hl.exe executable to lauch games :] This is somewhat like these TCPA .doc files. If Valve want to forbid "Mod Bart Simpson" can remake a new version that disable that mod, and "withouth consent" download to all users computers. This is not a problem for me, but I am not a hacker. But I think hacker will really disagree TCPA alike stuff... Maybe hackers will help to fix the Steam limitations. >> Valve as work dirty in the past. Unable Quake1 developpers to use >> both tools and some media into Quake1. P> When you take the Q1 engine, mix in stuff from Q2 and your own custom P> modifications, I'd love to see you do anything like backwards compatability P> with Q1. Valve licensed the Q1 engine fair and square and had no obligation, P> need or want to make it backwards compatable. Had not obligation other than be fair and make friends. Soo If you remove Q1 compatibility from Worldcraft... you gain enemys!.. not good. Ooops... maybe compatibility is droooped ? maybe... but is forbid at the license AND people as discovered a way to workaround (HACK HACK HACK) the problem to still use Worldcraft. q1rad is a quake1 tool to light maps with rendersity... maybe a illegal tool, but exist. You can also make Q1 maps with Hammer, but Valve forbit it... I not like that, but I not blame Valve. I list stuff that hackers disagree and hate. This is a well know example. Worldcraft, a Q1 map tool, generate BSP maps, Valve disable that (or drop) and forbid, also create is own "incompatible" BSP format. But this is also "fake" as is very easy to enable support for HL maps for Quake1. A lot of Q1 engines support HL maps. Valve forbid *me*, to upload cs_siege.bsp to my homepage and share with other files with instructions to copy this file at /quake/cstrike-ish-mod/maps Maybe this was a bussines decision, made to have more profit. Cool!. But you gain more enemys. More people will become angry. >> Abducting good mods inside >> (like Counter-Strike). Valve overload the market with his product, >> that unable oportunitys for other developers. Valve write nazi >> Licenses. P> Abducting? I'm assuming that gooseman agreed to having his MOD commercialised, P> otherwise Valve faces some serious charges. Microsoft Abducting. Lotus 1-2-3 => Excel Wordperfect => Word Mosaic => IE (builtin) Winzip => Explorer (builtin) ftp => Explorer (builtin) Winamp => Windows Media Player Valve Abducting Counter-Strike TeamFortress ... (more?) Good or Bad? I am not sure. Maybe enhance the mods itself. Good to the community. But its harder to make other mods. Its a tradeoff. P> And where are these nazi licenses, valve are incredibly nice with their MOD P> licenses. Already comment. >> If you think now the target is Valve. Please re-think. Its not cool to >> fuck a lot of people that where triing to get his fun from this. And >> Its not cool to fuck people doing fun games for all of us. If you have >> fun hacking, download Uplink game. P> Might want to address that one to the CRACKER community. :] yes, but for the public consume the word hacker is more common P> -Philip Thanks for your mail. Helll I have comment the negative side of the letter. Not good. The Valve work was sooo nice. Quake1 Singleplayer and most other FPS games was boring. But Half-Life has break everything to a new level. Good sp gameplay, good DM,...
RE: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
Quoting Cale 'Mazor' Dunlap <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I still go by the 'true' definition of a hacker. The name has lost the > respect it deserves and I try to keep it alive. I agree. Some people should see - http://jargon.watson-net.com/jargon.asp?w=hacker and http://jargon.watson-net.com/jargon.asp?w=cracker -Philip ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
I still go by the 'true' definition of a hacker. The name has lost the respect it deserves and I try to keep it alive. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Manip Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 3:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community Actually, the definition of 'hacker' has changed and is generally accepted as 'hacker' or 'cracker' and now most of the time a really good coder isn't known as a 'hacker' ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
RE: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
Hollywood's interpretation of hacker, is actually the definition of a cracker. The only people that see the hacker definition as 'changed', are the people that assumed a hacker was infact a cracker in the first place. -Original Message- From: Manip [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 October 2003 09:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community Actually, the definition of 'hacker' has changed and is generally accepted as 'hacker' or 'cracker' and now most of the time a really good coder isn't known as a 'hacker' ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders *** This e-mail and its attachments are confidential and are intended for the above named recipient only. If this has come to you in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail from your system. You must take no action based on this, nor must you copy or disclose it or any part of its contents to any person or organisation. Statements and opinions contained in this email may not necessarily represent those of Littlewoods. Please note that e-mail communications may be monitored. The registered office of Littlewoods Limited and its subsidiaries is 100 Old Hall Street, Liverpool, L70 1AB. Registered number of Littlewoods Limited is 262152. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
Re: [hlcoders] Open Letter To Hacker Community
Actually, the definition of 'hacker' has changed and is generally accepted as 'hacker' or 'cracker' and now most of the time a really good coder isn't known as a 'hacker' ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
