RE: [hlds] Co-located server showing as lan server
It would be easier to just add them to their favorites and have them use that tab, otherwise your best bet is to tunnel so it the server at the colo looks like the local lan. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cream > Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 7:13 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Co-located server showing as lan server > > m0gely wrote: > > Yeah, it's called the favorites list. It's not a LAN server so why > > hack it to appear as such? You're going to all this > trouble for what? > > Thanks for your input, we have lots of reasons for wanting > them to show up as lan servers, > > 1. First of all you are right, its not a lan server anymore, > but its located 2 hops away at the upstream ISP, where we > have traffic free of bandwidth charges (and very low pings). > > 2. We want our players to play on our servers, where we can > best service them. > > 3. The players are used to finding their servers under Lan > servers, and we would prefer that they find our "official" > servers, rather than just the sporadic player hosted lan servers. > > 4. I would rather have them under "LAN" than "Favorites", but > putting them in "Favorites" in serverbrowser.vdf, and having > that file replaced each time before steam is launched, is an option. > > I just figured that i couldnt be the first to be in a > situation like this, so maybe someone has an idea. (we have > even shortly talked about tunneling port 27010-27025 > broadcasts to the colo). > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Possible to permanently disable htlv in css?
Why does it make hard to host them? Unless the AI is terrible, it should not present a problem, I am just curious as to why? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 6:42 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] Possible to permanently disable htlv in css? > > How about a -nobot flag while you're at it then. It is > impossible for GSPs to guarantee performance when you allow > them to add bots. We've taken the stand to not supply CSS > servers just for that purpose. We will not return to hosting > HL2-based games until these issues are addressed. > > Ray S. > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Alfred Reynolds > Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 4:44 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: RE: [hlds] Possible to permanently disable htlv in css? > > The next engine release will include a "-nohltv" flag to > permanently disable during a srcds session. Note that if you > give rcon access it means "remote console", anything you can > do in the console they can do remotely (say, for example, > exiting the server). > > - Alfred > > Original Message > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian mu Sent: > Sunday, February 13, 2005 10:58 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: [hlds] Possible to permanently disable htlv in css? > > > This one slipped past me, so knowledge on this one is a bit short. > > > > Ayway, htlv seems built into css now as opposed to the old way with > > 1.6. So you can actually enable it, change port, change maxclients, > > record huge demo files all via rcon and a couple of simple > commands, > > no separate startup needed etc like with 1.6. > > > > This obviously has a few issues if someone with rcon > decides to enable > > hltv with 128 maxclients as default (or any if you don't want > > to) or increase as well. > > > > So am I misunderstanding this, as it seems to happen (I haven't > > thoroughly tested it yet like a lot of stuff on css). If > there is no > > way to disable it as an admin, surely thats a slightly huge > oversight > > letting someone with only rcon enabling htlv, recording huge files, > > deciding what ports they want to use etc? > > > > Hoping there is a way to stop it to prevent it being > enabled via rcon? > > But a bit concerned at this moment in time as an't see a way to > > permanently disable it yet without someone being able to > simply enable > > it via rcon. Tried digging out some docs on how to disable this > > feature but as yet none found. > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem
> Sorry to continue but there are two many issues left unanswered: > - Original Message - > From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> So why not just minimise them this would produce the same effect > >> according to your logic. > > It would not because doing it that way, your still using > the GDI and > > User resources where as if your running it as a service and > not using > > the Interact With Desktop option your not using them. > > Thats just a pile of rubbish. Start your server under a > service and query its resource handles with a debugger there > is no difference from using that run method to starting it > from the desktop you just cant see the output. If the server > was specificly written to run as a service yes this would be > the case but simple running it as one does not change is > resource requirements on single bit. I did query them, and the GDI and User Resources are at 0, otherwise I wouldn't have stated that they were. > >> Using svrany will never leave memory allocated or unclosed > >> filehandles, dont know where u got this impression. > > That is incorrect as your not taking into consideration > applications > > that don't respond well to the Logon/Logoff events when > being ran as a service. > > Wrong! If a app doesnt ignore the WM_ENDSESSION message ( > which is what prompts them to close on logoff ) your app will > just close. > This won't leave any memory / filehandles lying around. Even > if an app crashes windows reclaims those. Not all of the time it doesn't as not all applications follow the proper procedures, or listen to the proper events, in a perfect world they would. Windows can and does have zombie processes occur like *NIX does whether it be from a foreground app, or a service, and using srvany has caused that to happen. > >> So you put 4Gb of ram in your game server machines, nice > but waistful > >> :P > > 2GB usually, sometimes 3 or 4 depends on the system setup and cpu's. > > Might be waistful to you, but If you a person that wants a memory > > buffer of about 256 to 500mb to account for spikes in > usage, sometimes > > more than 2GB is needed. > > Hmm 100Mb average per you said, 8 servers thats 800Mb you > still got 1.2Gb free on a 2Gb machine. Didn't u say u ran Web > Server edition, as that only supports 2Gb where XP supports > 4Gb, or was that someone else? It was someone else because STD or ENT are the platforms I am reffering to. > >> They would only benifit if they OS ( kernel ) was using > significantly > >> less machine resources to do they job it did previously > without them. > >> I'd put it to you thats not the case as otherwise MS would be > >> shouting from the houses that 2k3 10% or more quicker at > running all > >> your apps. > > If your talking about applications that are basicly > > single/multi-threaded daemons that require little user > interaction and > > running multipe instances of those daemons, then it's a > different story. > > Why? You should be able to answer that. > >> Again so why isn't MS shouting about this nice performance > increase? > > MS seems to be saying that we should all upgrade to windows XP for > > workstations and 2003 for servers, seems like what one > would do with a > > product that's better than and older version. > > Of course they are they want u to spend money but there's no > big advertising campain touting huge performance increases > that I've seen. > > >> They do? Which? ( I'm talking real work threads here not basically > >> idle threads )? UT for example uses a seperatethread to do DNS > >> lookups but since they are so infrequent event doubling the > >> performance ( which your not doing to see ) would have no > persevable > >> effect on the servers performance. > > Doom3 for one. > > Looks like only one of the 3 threads does any work from the > trace I just did ( like in the case of UT ) could be wrong though. 6 threads there actually then after it finishes initialization, it's 4. > >> Yes you are, no one's saying your not but when you take those > >> opinions and give others advice based on them; when they are > >> unsubstansicated its like chinese whispers. People start > to believe > >> its true just because it was said, even though its not actually so. > > I give you the same advice. > > So what wisper did I start? I thought all my conclusions > where backed up by quantifiable sources. Correct me if I'm wong. Most of mine were as well. So we have d
RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem
Some Final words from me as well. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Steven Hartland > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 7:11 AM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Odd lag problem > > Some final words as this is obviously leading no where: > > - Original Message - > From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > A white paper would be a good idea, Also a nice white paper > on why XP > > is better than 2003 for running game servers would be good as well. > > No one is saying XP is better it is so a mute point. > > >> I cant see what you are trying to say here; OS's have versions? I > >> think we are all aware of that :P > > Versions would be the version of the programs and libraries you > > mentioned above. > > Thats perfectly obvious, if they where the same they wouldnt > be different :P > > > I mistated this, I was thinking one thing and saying > another. If it's > > running as a service, then it's not using the Graphics hardware and > > PCI bus for any of the graphics, IE the HAL is not used as well, > > leaving the resources free for running processes. > > So why not just minimise them this would produce the same > effect according to your logic. It would not because doing it that way, your still using the GDI and User resources where as if your running it as a service and not using the Interact With Desktop option your not using them. > >> Actually there are few or no factors which influence an > application > >> being able to run as a service, ever heard or svrany / instsrv? > > Being more precise I was referring to applications that > require user > > interaction to run, using srvany/instsrv will not solve > that problem > > without adding additional overhead. Some Applications run well sith > > srvany/instsrv and some do not. Fortunately most games work > well with > > it enough for us to use them to a point. However using > either of those > > is not a very good way to do so as it doesn't close the application > > properly and can leave system memory allocation fragments/unclosed > > filehandles and such. There are other methods to get game > servers running as a service. > > As far as "using either of those" goes you clearly don't know > what they are as instsrv is used to create service's and > srvany to run any application as a service ( created by > instsvr ) so you could never use instsrv to run a game server > as a service as you state. Actually you can use instsrv to run a game server. I have done so myself. > > Using svrany will never leave memory allocated or unclosed > filehandles, dont know where u got this impression. That is incorrect as your not taking into consideration applications that don't respond well to the Logon/Logoff events when being ran as a service. > >> You can even run an application that requires user > interaction as a > >> service, "Allow interaction with desktop" anyone? > >> Even if this where a restriction ( which it isnt ) it leaves about > >> 99.99% of servers out there; BHD and JO are the only two > that spring > >> to mind which required user interaction to start. But from > what your > >> saying all the others can perform better simply by running as a > >> service? I think NOT! > > I think so, and the reason is because it's assigned to the Service > > Control Manager as the parent process that controls them. > > I think you are under the total missunderstanding that the > SCM does anything other than monitor the processes it > started, to ensure they are running. It has now effect on > sheduling and hence performance what so ever. > > > > I am thinking in the realm of 2-4GB, so we are close there. > > So you put 4Gb of ram in your game server machines, nice but > waistful :P 2GB usually, sometimes 3 or 4 depends on the system setup and cpu's. Might be waistful to you, but If you a person that wants a memory buffer of about 256 to 500mb to account for spikes in usage, sometimes more than 2GB is needed. > >> Now back to the real stuff. The question was if it does NOT use it? > >> Why that specific question? Because if it did use it you > would need > >> either a seperate binary per OS or runtime checks to make > use of it. > >> Since we are primarily talking about Fiber's here and > given the fact > >> that game servers dont even use threads to any great > extent chances > >> of them making use of and hence gaining benefit from them > is so small
RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem
> >>> I didn't say XP was altered. XP is optmized that way via It's > >>> kernel, > >>> 2003 was optimized with a different set of parameters. > >> The source for this information? Or just speculation? > > Microsoft and device driver engineers as well. > And the link to white paper on this subject is? Sorry, none that I know of. I was under the understanding that it is basic knowledge. As for the engineers, I can't show you a link for obvious reasons, I apologize for bringing them into the discussion since I can't produce qoutes from them. > > Right regular redhat vs enterprise. Windows XP vs 2003. > > If you tweek it, you can give more priority to userland or > kernel mode > > as well as network or file. > You can tweak things to do a lot of things, what tweaks do > you know have been made that are relavent to running game > servers? Again a nice white paper would be good. A white paper would be a good idea, Also a nice white paper on why XP is better than 2003 for running game servers would be good as well. > >> You still havent give a reason why a game server run as > service runs > >> "better"? > >> Does it run under a different part of the OS? > >> Nar! > > True, if your generalizing it. > > Each OS has it's own version. > >> Does it have a different sheduler? > >> Nar! > > True, if your generalizing it. > > Each OS has it's own version. > I cant see what you are trying to say here; OS's have > versions? I think we are all aware of that :P Versions would be the version of the programs and libraries you mentioned above. > >> Does it run as a different priority? > >> Quite possibly but there's nothing to stop you doing this with a > >> foreground app. > > Yes it can. Why would you want it to use your Gui resources > instead of > > running in the background not using any at all. > So you think running an app as a service automatically > removes any gui calls it makes hence uses less resources and > CPU? Hmm let me just go laugh in the corner for a while! I mistated this, I was thinking one thing and saying another. If it's running as a service, then it's not using the Graphics hardware and PCI bus for any of the graphics, IE the HAL is not used as well, leaving the resources free for running processes. > >> You cant magiclly make an application perform better simplely by > >> running it as a service. If this where true we would run > everything > >> as services wouldnt we? > > No one said you could make it magically happen. Running > something as a > > service depends many factors such as can it be ran without > loading a > > gui and requiring no user interaction. > Actually there are few or no factors which influence an > application being able to run as a service, ever heard or > svrany / instsrv? Being more precise I was referring to applications that require user interaction to run, using srvany/instsrv will not solve that problem without adding additional overhead. Some Applications run well sith srvany/instsrv and some do not. Fortunately most games work well with it enough for us to use them to a point. However using either of those is not a very good way to do so as it doesn't close the application properly and can leave system memory allocation fragments/unclosed filehandles and such. There are other methods to get game servers running as a service. > You can even run an application that requires user > interaction as a service, "Allow interaction with desktop" anyone? > Even if this where a restriction ( which it isnt ) it leaves > about 99.99% of servers out there; BHD and JO are the only > two that spring to mind which required user interaction to > start. But from what your saying all the others can perform > better simply by running as a service? I think NOT! I think so, and the reason is because it's assigned to the Service Control Manager as the parent process that controls them. > >>> SQL server does need huge memory support, and running > multiple game > >>> servers you need it as well. > >> If your game servers need multi GB's of memory I suggest there's > >> something wrong somewhere. > > Thanks for the suggestion, but nothing is wrong when your running > > multiple processes that each require and avg of 100MB of memory. > I think we have a very different idea about huge amounts of > memory a dual CPU machine with 2GB ( small amount of ram ) > will happily run all the servers the CPU can handle and still > have loads left for disk cache etc. So large amounts of RAM > such as that used on a good size DB machine e.g. 4+GB is just > not required on a game server. I am thinking in the realm of 2-4GB, so we are close there. > >>> Actually, wether it uses the API's or not, Windows itself > will use > >>> that model to optimize the processes it is running, including > >>> multiple gameservers. > >> So an application can benifit from the existence of an API > it doesnt > >> use directly or indirectly hmm perhaps not :P > > It can, if it doesn't use it directly and a parent process that
RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem
Here are 2 to start with. And yes the Numa is only available with Enterprise or higher. With STD you don't get the Numa part, but you do get most of the improvements http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/03/06/WindowsServer2003/default.asp x Base feature comparison. http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winserver2003_editions.asp This is about the background and foreground applications. Basicly it tells you that the server is either optimized to give services the higher priority, or to give everything the same priority within it's class. http://www.sysinternals.com/ntw2k/info/nt5.shtml I personaly prefer OpenBSD for everything, but I also have to know windows very well for my day job, so I spend time digging up these tidbits about differences. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Hartland Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 5:49 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Odd lag problem Curious there Chance why would running it as a service have any effect on its resource allocation / scheduling apart from the effect that the good old background / foreground setting in windows does. I cant see any logic in MS coding in something like that and then only letting "services" benefit just doesn't seem to make sense to me, not that MS make sense most the time :P If you have the tech article references I'd really love to read up. Steve / K - Original Message - From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The NUMA helps it a lot as well as the per cpu thread pooling and > scheduling that's tied into it. 2000 does't have NUMA, not even the > Datacenter version which I have. Keep in mind as as server OS, the > servers must be ran as a service to get the benefit from the resource > allocation and scheduling from either windows 2000 or 2003. > A lot of people run them in cmd boxes not realizing that it takes away > from the priority and memory/resource management, unless you have > boost foreground application enabled, then they get almost the same priority. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem
The NUMA helps it a lot as well as the per cpu thread pooling and scheduling that's tied into it. 2000 does't have NUMA, not even the Datacenter version which I have. Keep in mind as as server OS, the servers must be ran as a service to get the benefit from the resource allocation and scheduling from either windows 2000 or 2003. A lot of people run them in cmd boxes not realizing that it takes away from the priority and memory/resource management, unless you have boost foreground application enabled, then they get almost the same priority. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Fencik Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 1:04 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem Good info. How is server 2k3 superior to server 2000 for running hl servers? Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chance Sullivan Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:35 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem Steven, the Kernel is more optimized to deal with background services and multiple connections/disconnections as well as having it's multithreaded smp more optimized for running services with it's NUMA design for SMP, not to mention a more robust network stack designed for high load. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Hartland Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:41 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Odd lag problem - Original Message - From: "Ian mu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > There are some advantages of 2k3 over xp, things like process > priorities Interesting Ian can u elaberate on that I was not aware of any additional priority handling in 2k3 that XP doesnt have. Steve / K This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem
My question to you is are you running it in the foreground in a dos box, or as a windows 2003 service. If you run it as a service, it gets the priority it needs as they changed how windows manages processes a bit in windows 2003 to say the least. Oh and I wouldn't bind it to cpu's because that will actually degrade performance during disk reads and writes from the tests I have done. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Snagu Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:51 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Odd lag problem "Nice" to see that here is nothing changed, somebody asking about lag problem and you start arguing about xp / w2k3 server. That's why this mailinglist is from ass. I have still lag problem with DoD / w2k3 server and I will step backwards to w2k server, because I haven't found any solutions to cut the lag. Problems is that 28/28 DoD server runs smoothly about halfday and then it starts to lag. Latency start to run between 11 -250 ms, after rebooting HLDS process, everything works again about halfday. Yes, there is plenty of recources free in server, CPU load never over 85%, even in peaks and more than 2Gb RAM free. I tried to bind processes for different CPU's and network cards, reinstalled (clean install) HLDS / DoD, nothing helps. I run exactly same configuration earlier in w2k server without any problems. So I'm going to change OS back to w2k and hope that helps. Snagu ----- Original Message - From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:35 AM Subject: RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem > Steven, > the Kernel is more optimized to deal with background services and > multiple connections/disconnections as well as having it's > multithreaded smp more optimized for running services with it's NUMA > design for SMP, not to mention a more robust network stack designed > for high load. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven > Hartland > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:41 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Odd lag problem > > - Original Message - > From: "Ian mu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> There are some advantages of 2k3 over xp, things like process >> priorities > > Interesting Ian can u elaberate on that I was not aware of any > additional priority handling in 2k3 that XP doesnt have. > >Steve / K > > > > > This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. > and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of > misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, > printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in > it. > > In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission > please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Odd lag problem
Steven, the Kernel is more optimized to deal with background services and multiple connections/disconnections as well as having it's multithreaded smp more optimized for running services with it's NUMA design for SMP, not to mention a more robust network stack designed for high load. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Hartland Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:41 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Odd lag problem - Original Message - From: "Ian mu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > There are some advantages of 2k3 over xp, things like process > priorities Interesting Ian can u elaberate on that I was not aware of any additional priority handling in 2k3 that XP doesnt have. Steve / K This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
Nevertheless, he showed how one could get rooted, there were no criteria at to what software was required, quit trying to pick a fight. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 2:37 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Come on 1. Is a VNC bug so hows that Windows fault? 2. Its not on by default in Windows 2003, hell its not on by default in a lot of Windows Boxes 3. Port 135 open to the Internet, you deserve to be r00ted That being said, Windows still sucks, and I really wish people would bash it for the right reasons rather than the wrong ones! On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 10:54:06 -0800, m0gely <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Clayton Macleod wrote: > > > how exactly can an NT box get 'rooted'? ;) > > Before you come back and answer "No I'm not kidding": > > http://www.metasploit.com/projects/Framework/screenshots/v23_vnc_01_bi > g.jpg > http://www.metasploit.com/projects/Framework/screenshots/v20_web_03_bi > g.jpg > http://www.metasploit.com/projects/Framework/screenshots/v20_msc_03_bi > g.jpg > > There. Just a couple ways to 'root' a Windows box. > > -- > - m0gely > http://quake2.telestream.com/ > Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
It's obvious that securing a server is beyond him, why even bother to ask
about a firewall?
Martin Radford, little tip, learn how to properly secure and nt box and it
won't get rooted easily.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dEFiNE
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:23 AM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: SV: [hlds] Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
Have you tried the "new" thing, I think it's called firewall? :)
//dEFiNE
-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] För Martin Radford
Skickat: den 29 januari 2005 18:41
Till: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Ämne: RE: [hlds] Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Unfortuanatly I got hacked
too many times using 2003, last one they were using the UTC port for time
sync...
Have gone over to Mandrake 10.1 Final for a new lease of life for a bit.
Dont get me wrong, as a HLDS server all the NT platforms (tried em all over
the last 18months) are very good and the platform is probably easier to find
your way around - maybe I'm just disillusioned? Oh yeh, little tip:
Turn off remote registry services - it's on by default and I lost a Win2k
Server three times before I sussed what was going on - the machine was so
badly invaded they were running an internet radio station on there! - ho hum
Best o'luck ;)
hlds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } Yes, I
do, and it works great. (Please, no renewed OS flame war hlds is
lightweight enough to run fine on any properly equipped NT 4.0, 2000, XP or
2003 box.) Just dont run Exchange, IIS, Active directory, DNS, etc on the
same box, or youll get lag spikes when the other services require CPU
resources
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark South
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 7:04 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: [hlds] Windows Server 2003 Enterprise
Has anyone ran TFC on this?
Cochise
-
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
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RE: Router tips WAS "Re: [hlds] Ban list."
I would suggest and SMC barricade series. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pit Gee Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 8:33 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: Router tips WAS "Re: [hlds] Ban list." *crickets chirping** So what "router" should I buy for around $50, lol. I appreciate the theoretical arguments about what a true router is but. I want a router so I can have two or three computers in my home. I want something simple, safe and reliable that works. I think that other poster was spot on about getting some sunshine. Maybe a nap too.:>) At one time I was thinking of running a gaming server for dod but since I have basically quit gaming now will the router that Tony recommended do the trick without having an additional firewall? If not what firewall would you guys recommend? Is the windows firewall sufficient or is is crappy? Also I have a new computer that I haven't even set up yet. The motherboard has a "hardware" firewall. Does that take the place of a regular firewall completely? Basically, theoretics asside I was just looking for someone to give me the bottom line so I'm not wasting money on softwared (or router features) I don't need. (And I know this is a valve thread and I'm not asking a valve question exactly so forgive me for being a noob) It's not that I don't appreciate the vast store of information you guys posess it's just that it a lot of it is over my head at this moment. Also, it is really easy to misinterpret conversations on line so I hate to see even an inkling of an argument or flamefest. Some people may write a cerain way for effect or because that is their personalities while others may be totally offended by the tone they percieve (anti-flame off) lol Sorry for yet another totally useless post. Just thoughted a little comedy relief was in order!! >From: Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >Subject: Re: Router tips WAS "Re: [hlds] Ban list." >Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2005 16:07:08 +1100 > >Ook > >Thats the job of the Router Protocols, such as RIP, OSPF or in the case >of Internet Routers BGP & BGP-II > >I sincerely thought you would know this. > >On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 14:44:35 -0800, Ook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > How, then, does a router know where to send an incoming packet? If > > there >is > > no entry in the routing table, and if it's not blocked/dropped, > > where >does > > it go? > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Whisper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: > > Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 2:03 PM > > Subject: Re: Router tips WAS "Re: [hlds] Ban list." > > > > > I beg to differ > > > > > > It is only shitty routers that block incoming requests by default > > > > > > Real routers don't cost less than $1000, nor a sold at Radio Shack > > > or Tandy and are generally are configured by people who know what > > > they are doing and what they are talking about. > > > > > > Only in the retail/consumer sector do people get away with calling > > > these devices "real routers" and anything else "shitty" > > > > > > On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:55:43 -0500, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Explain why you need to setup port forwarding on any router to > > > > run a server behind it. > > > > > > > > Routers block all unsolicited incomming requests BY DEFAULT. > > > > Unless it's some shitty router with a poor config. It acts as a > > > > firewall protecting the internal network from outside traffic > > > > (this does NOT mean though that any outgoing requests are blocked, those are NOT). > > > > > > > > Please read up before replying. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~Tony > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:41:40 +1100, Whisper > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > Routers by default (If we are talking about what routers > > > > > really >are) > > > > > DO NOT block anything in either direction, they route, its as >simple > > > > > as that. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:04:23 -0500, Tony > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > > > > > 1. Linksys is a great brand in my opinion. I've yet to have > > > > > > a >true > > > > > > problem with their routers. > > > > > > 2. Might as well pick up a WRT54G, even if you don't plan to > > > > > > go wireless. The stuff that the new firmware can do over > > > > > > what the >old > > > > > > BEFSR41 can is worth the few extra bucks. Plus with the WRT, > > > > > > you > > have > > > > > > the option of third party firmwares. Don't get the WRT54GS >though. > > No > > > > > > need for it and some special firmwares won't work on it. > > > > > > 3. A router, by default, will block all unsolicited > > > > > > incomming requests. Doesn't mean that you DON'T need a > > > > > > firewall, but your >need > > > > > > will be greatly reduced. If you want to control the traffic >comming > > > > > > out of your network, then yes, you'll still need a firew
RE: Router tips WAS "Re: [hlds] Ban list."
Actually it was valid in the first place, as unsolicited means packets that it did not ask for or make it self available for which any router does, considering the the way you used the term. As far as what is a router, the term is confused a bit nowadays. A router simply routers packets from one host/network to one or many hosts/networks. What most consumers have are low traffic routers with a firewall added on and a few other features such as DNS and DHCP. It's still a low-traffic router as well as being a multi-function low-traffic/horsepower network device. Most enterprise routers do not have a built-in firewall with SPI as consumer routers do because they are not meant to be multifunction, ALA cisco PIX firewalls. That is changing some nowadays. In any case, they are all routers, just with differen't Oses and feature sets. That should answer your question as well Ook :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 5:55 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: Router tips WAS "Re: [hlds] Ban list." Not to be a dick now, but the router that the original poster had suggested runs around $100. We're not talking about enterprise grade routers here. So my call to you that routers that don't block unsolicited incomming requests by default was valid because in the context of this entire fucking "thread", commercial, off the shelf, sell'em at Radio Shack routers are being discussed and all of them should and do. I'm not trying to be a dick, but you are going out of your way to be "right" when you're not in this case. ~Tony On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 09:03:55 +1100, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I beg to differ > > It is only shitty routers that block incoming requests by default > > Real routers don't cost less than $1000, nor a sold at Radio Shack or > Tandy and are generally are configured by people who know what they > are doing and what they are talking about. > > Only in the retail/consumer sector do people get away with calling > these devices "real routers" and anything else "shitty" > > On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:55:43 -0500, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Explain why you need to setup port forwarding on any router to run a > > server behind it. > > > > Routers block all unsolicited incomming requests BY DEFAULT. Unless > > it's some shitty router with a poor config. It acts as a firewall > > protecting the internal network from outside traffic (this does NOT > > mean though that any outgoing requests are blocked, those are NOT). > > > > Please read up before replying. > > > > > > ~Tony > > > > > > On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 01:41:40 +1100, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Routers by default (If we are talking about what routers really > > > are) DO NOT block anything in either direction, they route, its as > > > simple as that. > > > > > > On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:04:23 -0500, Tony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > 1. Linksys is a great brand in my opinion. I've yet to have a > > > > true problem with their routers. > > > > 2. Might as well pick up a WRT54G, even if you don't plan to go > > > > wireless. The stuff that the new firmware can do over what the > > > > old > > > > BEFSR41 can is worth the few extra bucks. Plus with the WRT, you > > > > have the option of third party firmwares. Don't get the WRT54GS > > > > though. No need for it and some special firmwares won't work on it. > > > > 3. A router, by default, will block all unsolicited incomming > > > > requests. Doesn't mean that you DON'T need a firewall, but your > > > > need will be greatly reduced. If you want to control the traffic > > > > comming out of your network, then yes, you'll still need a firewall. > > > > > > > > ~Tony > > > > > > > > ___ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] "nosteam" hacks update?
Hmm, I run OpenBSD and still haven't got hacked. LOL!
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of K. Mike Bradley
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:53 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: RE: [hlds] "nosteam" hacks update?
LOL I run all Microsoft and patch religiously ... No problems since Code
red.
I load a Gentoo box and it's hacked in 3 days.
I had to pull the plug LOL
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Napier, Kevin
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 3:18 PM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: RE: [hlds] "nosteam" hacks update?
Verifiying emails is lame, as many of us have no intention of giving valve
real email addresses; let along my cc#, lol.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of K. Mike Bradley
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:01 AM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: RE: [hlds] "nosteam" hacks update?
Windows total lack of security?
Last I checked there was security in that OS.
I am not a Microsoft fan but neither a Microsoft basher.
The real issue with Steam hacks is entirely in the Steam app.
And the game hacks are due to the fact that each client is sent info updates
on the other players position even when those players can't be seen.
As long as this is so anyone who can code will intercept this info and make
it available to the player visually ... IE: Wall hacks galore.
The only way to fix this as I have said many times is to NOT send updates
until the players is in the same PVS (IE: in a spot where the opponent is
about to come around the corner and needs to be drawn on screen in just a
few milliseconds.
As far as Steam hacks Valve has to be a little tighter on verifying emails
and locking out old WON cd keys for good.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:21 AM
To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: Re: [hlds] "nosteam" hacks update?
Kevin thats the EXACT excuse I have heard being given and to some extent is
entirely correct because it is Windows total lack of security that allows
NO-STEAM to exist and makes it extremely difficult for anybody, let alone
Valve to control what the hell happens on the client machine, so in that
respect it is not Valves fault.
On the other hand though, knowing all this, and anybody with half a brain
would, why on earth isn't all the checking done server/Valve side I do not
understand.
I do get your point though about MOD versus GAME as a Half-Life user has
legitamate access to most pre HL2 based MODS, BUT!!! it still should not
matter.
A legitamate copy of Half-Life should be on the users machine some way some
how, either with a legitamate CD key or because it was purchased directly
from Valve or as the case usually is CS is purchased directly from Valve or
from a box set with real CD-Keys which then can be permanently locked to a
specific STEAM Account.
In either case Valve knows (or should know) what STEAM Accounts and
therefore which STEAM_ID's have legitamate access to said game(s).
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 21:53:23 -0500, Napier, Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> If you mean "game" when you say mod.. then yeah I agree..duh..
> If you actually mean "mod" that doesn't exactly work since joe blow
> could
right his own mod and it wouldn't be associated by valve. But yeah having a
simple check of "hey has this steam id registered as purchasing *any* game?
..oh it has great.. else.. messageuser("Bugger off..");
>
> Dragging "windows" "security" into this unneeded, largely irrelivent,
> and
arguably inaccurate.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Whisper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 8:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [hlds] "nosteam" hacks update?
>
> > I know how NO-STEAM works.
> >
> > I am still at a loss as to why servers cannot query some master
> > server and ask something like:
> >
> > STEAM_ID STEAM_0:X:XX has just joined server with Gametype
> > accept or reject connection?
> >
> > Valves STEAM_ID database does quick database search, and goes, "No,
> > this game is NOT registered for this STEAM_ID, Reject"
> >
> > I mean, people can create STEAM Accounts until the cows come home,
> > (which is as it should be, since that was half the point of creating
> > STEAM in the first place I would suspect, create a STEAM Account,
> > purchase game online directly from Valve, download game, and play!)
> > but are Valve not the final arbitors of what games are registered to
> > which STEAM Logins and STEAM_ID's?
> >
> > Aren't CD keys attached/associated with STEAM Accounts for games not
> > purchased via STEAM? If not, why not?
> >
> > People can fake on the client side all they want, what games a STEAM
> > Account has legitamate access too, as Windows has the security of a
> > sieve. That being said, you cannot fake to the server wh
RE: [hlds] Help Help,
uPNP(m0gley) will do this. Routers do validate their IP address and as far as that RFC it's RFC-3022. NAPT Is what most on the list here refer to as NAT/P-NAT/PAT. If your router does that I am betting you have uPNP enabled. Otherwise, since non of these routers are windows based, I doubt they do what your saying because it would be a very gross violation of NAPT and a very big security risk which should be all over BugTraq. BTW the E-mail Is at the bottom. Oh and What models you say exhibit this behavior? I would like to know so I can do some packet sniffing and see what happens, if they actually are doing this. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OoksServer Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 4:41 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Help Help, >>In the e-mail I posted below you even stated so yourself it works that way. I don't see this email, what are you referring to? What I said is exactly what happens. If you don't believe me, try it yourself. I've done it many times. If anyone wants to see this in action, when I get home tonight I'll un-forward my ports and start an hlds server behind my router with no forwarded ports. It will work exactly like I said it will, clients will see me on the Steam list, and they will be able to join and play. Steam will show my port as 12345 or something like that, not 27015. Most consumer grade routers, and probably a lot of commercial routers also, do not validate the ip address of incoming packets. Technically, that is the responsiblity of the firewall. An outgoing request results in an entry in the routers address translation table. This entry stores the internal computers non-routable IP address and port. At this point, ANY incoming packet goes into the router. The router looks at the destination port of the incoming request, checks the address translation table to see if there is a matching entry and either drops that packet if there is no matching entry, or sends it through if there is a matching entry. Technically, we just did PAT (Port Address Translation). The router does not care where this packet comes from, and does not care that it came from an IP other then the one that I sent my original outgoing packet to (Netgear's problem is their address translation table only holds about 256 entries, where most other routers will hold thousands.). Again, that is the responsbility of the firewall. RFC1631 doesn't really specify whether or not the ip of incoming packets is validated or not, I'm guessing that is up to the manufacturer to decide, but many if not most consumer grade routers don't do this. That is what the firewall is for. In your firewall, you can specify source and destination ports and IP address, and any packets from other IP address into the port will be dropped. I once started my HL server but forgot to forward ports. I had traffic as usual, but one of my regulars asked me why the server was on this weird port. That is when I discovered that I forgot to forward any ports. If what you said was true, this would not work and I would not have had any traffic. > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OoksServer > > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:50 AM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] server showing up in steam for others to join > > > > I went through this a few times, as have others here. Do the following: > > > > 1) Tell us which router you have. I used a Belkin router and could > > never > get > > it to work. Belkin tech support was worthless, and I never got it to work. > I > > got rid of the router, problem went away. > > 2) Make sure there is no firewall or other device running that > > prevents outgoing ports from being opened. Many routers have a > > firewall that > defaults > > to on that will cause your server to not be in the list. Turn it > > off, or > set > > it to allow outgoing ports to be opened and stay open. > > 3) Make sure to run hldsupdatetool, as an out of date hlds > > installation > will > > prevent the server from being visible. > > 4) Post your server name and IP so we can take a look at it from the > outside > > world. > > 5) Don't go opening a whole bunch of ports. The only incoming port > > you > need > > is 27015 (or the port you specified for your server). All other > > ports are > > outgoing ports and are psuedo-random by hlds and will be assigned by your > > router. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Help Help,
Yes, this is router 101, but your not getting that what your saying does not happen with NAT unless a port is forwarded/redirected. It doesn't work the way you are saying. NAT is not designed to work like that. NAT Keeps states and that means that only the ip where the port is opened to will be able to send data back through, otherwise every router out there would get hacked and it would be a security nightmare. In the e-mail I posted below you even stated so yourself it works that way. So Which is it? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OoksServer Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 11:23 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Help Help, No no no no no. Come on, guys, this is router 101 we are talking about, not rocket science. If you are using Linksys or Netgear or any one of several low end consumer grade crap routers with NAT (and many higher end routers also), you do NOT need to open any ports to get this to work. Read my previous post. HLDS will first send a packet out on local port 27015 to the master server. If you have NAT in the way, NAT will translate the port ( say to 12345) and open port 12345, translating internal port 27015 to external port 12345. The master server sees you on port 12345. The steam list and other server browsers publish you on port 12345. Clients connect to you on port 12345. Your router has opened port 12345, and translates it back to local port 27015. My client looks at the Steam list, sees Joe Blows server on port 12345. My client tries to connect to Joe Blow on port 12345. Joe Blows router takes my packets coming in on port 12345 and sends them to Joe Blows server on port 27015. Joe Blows server is listening on port 27015 and accepts packets being sent from me. Joe Blows server sends packets out on port of 27015. His router grabs these packets and finding that is has already translated internal port to 27015 to external port 27015, it sends it to me at port 12345. I frag Joe Blow, life is good. You don't need to "punch holes" through NAT to get hlds to work. The only reason you "punch holes" is for clients that expect a specific port to be open, such as a web server on port 80 or an FTP server on port 21. Half-Life clients do not expect any specific ports to be open. They look at the master list to see what port is actually open, and use that port. I have proved this to work on Netgear RP614V2, Linksys BEFSR41, WRT54G, WRT54GS, Westell 2100, Cisco 678 and some other crap Netgear router. Many many of use here have likewise shown that this works. Most NAT routers work the same way in that an outgoing request opens up a port and stays open so long as there is traffic. When there is no traffic on the port, it will time out after a while and close. I once set my Cisco 678 timeout to 10 seconds to see what would happen, and everything went to crap LOL - don't set timeout to 10 seconds! - Original Message - From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:15 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Help Help, > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > -- > He needs to forward the ports punching a hole through his nat and > firewall regardless of if the firewall is on or off, if he is using NAT. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ook > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:00 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Help Help, > > This is not at all true. Linksys and Netgear are the same way. You > need to disable the firewall, but you do not need to open any ports, > and you don't need to be in the DMZ. Hlds makes an outgoing connection > on port 27015 to the master server. ALL necessary connections from > HLDS are initially initiated by hlds. Since it is an outgoing port, > the router will open the port and keep it open. The router also > translates the port, so what is 27015 > on the server might be 12345 on the outside of the router. The master server > registers this port, whatever it is, and publishes that as your server port > on the master list. A client looks at the master list, sees your > server is on port 12345, tries to connect and suceeds because the > router opened this port then the server made it's initial outoing > request. Players will see your server on the master list on port > 12345, and join and have a lot of fun. > > Please note that whenever your computer makes an outgoing connection - > email, IM, web browser, anything at all, the router will translate the port > to some psuedo-random port. This applies to running a Half-Life server. > > You do NOT need to open any ports on your router. Failure to do so > simply means that your server is on some random port instead of 27015. > Ok, so your > friend
RE: [hlds] Help Help,
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- He needs to forward the ports punching a hole through his nat and firewall regardless of if the firewall is on or off, if he is using NAT. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ook Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:00 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Help Help, This is not at all true. Linksys and Netgear are the same way. You need to disable the firewall, but you do not need to open any ports, and you don't need to be in the DMZ. Hlds makes an outgoing connection on port 27015 to the master server. ALL necessary connections from HLDS are initially initiated by hlds. Since it is an outgoing port, the router will open the port and keep it open. The router also translates the port, so what is 27015 on the server might be 12345 on the outside of the router. The master server registers this port, whatever it is, and publishes that as your server port on the master list. A client looks at the master list, sees your server is on port 12345, tries to connect and suceeds because the router opened this port then the server made it's initial outoing request. Players will see your server on the master list on port 12345, and join and have a lot of fun. Please note that whenever your computer makes an outgoing connection - email, IM, web browser, anything at all, the router will translate the port to some psuedo-random port. This applies to running a Half-Life server. You do NOT need to open any ports on your router. Failure to do so simply means that your server is on some random port instead of 27015. Ok, so your friends list may not work either, picky picky. PS - Netgear has a small NAT table and some models have short timeouts on the ports. This can cause your server to stop appearing on the master list, and can prevent players from joining. I once ran an OpenNap server behind a Netgear router, and the user count topped out at 220. WTF? Netgear finally admitted to me that it was their limited NAT table causing the problem. Switched to a Linksys and tried a Westell, user count zoomed up to 1000 which was where I set the cap on the server. - Original Message - From: "Ryan Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 4:45 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] Help Help, > Just my understanding that an external PC would not be able to connect > to the server port because no actual port is open on the router (which > is the actual interface connected to the net). Unless you have the CS > server setup as the DMZ host, it was my understanding that you would > need to forward the ports to the server on the LAN (which I am again > presuming is connecting through NAT). I'm again presuming that is a > 'residential' router, so you wouldn't have to open any outgoing ports > on the router because most routers which are bought for the home do > not do this. I'm only familiar with NetGear however, I'm afraid. > > Also, make sure you have sv_region set correctly to your region, as > your filters in the serverbrowser might be filtering out your server. > Google for sv_region for the necessary region codes (3 is Europe). > > Regards, > > Ryan Lewis > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of OoksServer > Sent: 29 December 2004 22:49 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Help Help, > > > You do not need to forward any ports to get it to work. If you do not > forward any ports, it simply registers on the master list as whatever > port NAT translated it to. Failure to forward any ports on a linksys > router will NOT stop your server from appearing on the master list, or > the steam browser. > > HOWEVER!!! Linksys has a firewall that is on by default, and this will > stop the server from being seen. > > - Original Message - > From: "Ryan Lewis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:30 PM > Subject: RE: [hlds] Help Help, > > >> You will need to make sure you have forwarded the correct port > (default >> 27015) on your router to the server. You should consult your router >> manual or the linksys website on how to forward ports/services to >> IP's on your network. >> >> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=port+forwarding+intitle%3Alinksys >> http://www.portforward.com/ >> >> Regards, >> >> Ryan Lewis >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel >> Gregait >> Sent: 29 December 2004 17:43 >> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >> Subject: [hlds] Help Help, >> >> >> I am currently trying to setup a dedicated counter-strike server >> behind a linksys router. I have the server running but am unable to >> see it as an internet game or connect via IP from a different PC. any >> help would be great. >> >> GnEserver admin >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, ed
RE: [hlds] ARGH, THEY CRACKED CS:SOURCE ALREADY >
While the solutions are good, Valve could make something like MS did(a good idea actually OMG!) with SUPS, that would make it much easier. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] ARGH, THEY CRACKED CS:SOURCE ALREADY >< I see you smart arses have completely missed the point. The fact that we have to constantly come up with our own solutions to solve problems that should have been addressed when HLDS, STEAM, VAC, were originally conceived is what I am talking about. Good on you that you managed to come up with your own solutions, but that was not my point. But hey, you all seem to be so happy with the way Valve is running things at the moment and things are working SO well, then Im happy for you to live in your own little world where there are no gapping issues you can drive a super tanker through that some of us have to deal with, because you obviously have it so much better than the rest of us, due to you being so awfully clever and smarter than the rest of us! On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:24:47 -0500, BeNt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ook you make another very noted very valid point.I have got nearly 4 > years worth of server time and "money" out of my origonal purchase of > half-life.The time was great and still is,most of the games I've > bought in the last 4 years are sitting on my desk or in my cd rack > collecting dust.But Half-life is still capturing my > attention.Why?Cause of the admin/player community intrest and on going > steps to make the game "better" since the day it came out.Everyone > needs to watch out.If steam ever gets nearly perfect VALVe will be > around for a long time and spin off companies will come off with this > tech and publishers will be getting phased out with the advent of > cheaper priced games since the middle man will no longer be needed to > push content out to gamers.Steam is the future of VALVe not HL2.And the future ain't looking too bright right now.Unfortunately. > > BeNt > > > > > Half-Life was a killer deal. Worth every penny we paid. I think I > > paid $40 for mine, $20 for OP4 and another $30 or so for Blue-Shift. > > The BS money was wasted, but the rest of it was a great deal. We got > > DM, CS, TFC, OP4 and a bazillion other mods. And we still play it > > today. Those of us that make mods and maps and run servers for free > > have helped Valve become filthy stinkin' > > rich. What other game gets played year after year? Most of the games > > I've bought during the last 7 years are sitting in a box somewhere > > collecting dust. > > > > But...can they do it again? Most companies do something great, and > > then spend the next 5-10 years trying to recapture their past glory > > before finally selling out or shutting down. Valve had their source > > code stolen right out from under their nose (assuming they didn't > > make the whole thing up to cover the fact that HL2 wasn't anywhere > > close to being ready for release), and they think I'm going to trust > > them with my credit card? They invented Steam which although is > > working better now then it ever has, was absolute shiite for a long > > long time. My fear is that their success has contributed to their > > arrogance and they have lost touch with their user base and don't > > really know what we, the players and mappers and server admins, > > really want anymore. I hope I'm wrong, I hope HL2 is just as > > sucessfull as > > HL1 and that we spend the next 5 years getting our moneys worth out > > of HL2 with maps and mods. > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] NAT transparency with listenservers
Just for curiosity's sake, check the UPnP settings on both machines. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ray Spaulding Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 2:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] NAT transparency with listenservers I have also notice this. And here's my proof of it: I have a NAT network run on XP Pro. All other machines in the LAN have non-routable IPs. As most of you know, you cannot create rules of forwarding in client versions of WIN products without modification or programs. This setup is also XP firewalled by all the machines in the house under the SP2 update recently released from MS. I started a server on machine 192.168.0.131:27055 for testing of CS Source. I ran it a couple minutes and then fired a CZ server on the same machine to test for cpu usage. As I was firing up this second server I was surprised to see someone join the first CS:Source server. As I gaped at this, supposedly, impossibility I witnessed the same thing happen to the CZ server running on that same machine at port 27050. In my amazement I went to two other machines in the LAN and joined that server. And then started to play with the guy connected to the server on 192.168.0.131:27055! Additionally I went to the main hub of the LAN located at 192.168.0.1/66.31.77.xx and turned on HLSW pointing to the LAN server. He was fully connected in the game and having a blast. I turned HLSW to the CZ server I had running with bots for testing and found the same thing with 3 people in it. I have lacked posting here as I thought it a fluke and forgot about it as I shut the servers down. The one thing I failed to do was look on the Master List to see if my IP was there running at my public IP:27055 or whether or not it was modified by the NAT function in XP Pro to a random port for outgoing connections. I look forward to doing so tomorrow though just to test that theory. Ultimately, without a doubt, STEAM is bypassing the normal rules of routing and allowing connections to LAN systems from the internet. Now if THIS isn't a MAJOR security issue with this garbage then nothing else is. I look forward to responses to this and other people's experience on this one. Ray S. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Fencik Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 11:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] NAT transparency with listenservers How big is your network? Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AgentHH Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 10:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hlds] NAT transparency with listenservers So, I started a listenserver to mess around in the new levels. I'm behind a fairly restrictive NAT/router with nothing forwarded to my comp. Much to my surprise, some guy joined my game. Is there some kind of NAT transparency with HL2, much like that of UT2K4? --AgentHH ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the master list.
IE, rules could be much tighter and still work the same. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of m0gely Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 7:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the master list. Chance Sullivan wrote: > A little loose, but those should keep it working. ? -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the master list.
A little loose, but those should keep it working.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of m0gely
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 6:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the
master list.
I just had this long email all typed up with some great revelation but now I
can't reproduce the same results. As well it appears the trouble of getting
the 'pfctl -s state |grep 27010' to show the correct port being bound to my
ext ip and sent to the MSL's has mysteriously fixed itself. I cannot for
the life of me figure out what I have different now.
# pfctl -s state | grep 27010
udp 192.168.0.17:27015 -> 67.164.108.150:27015 -> 207.173.177.11:27010
MULTIPLE:MULTIPLE
udp 192.168.0.17:27015 -> 67.164.108.150:27015 -> 207.173.177.12:27010
SINGLE:NO_TRAFFIC
udp 192.168.0.17:27015 -> 67.164.108.150:27015 -> 195.149.21.18:27010
SINGLE:NO_TRAFFIC
udp 192.168.0.17:27015 -> 67.164.108.150:27015 -> 69.28.151.178:27010
MULTIPLE:MULTIPLE
udp 192.168.0.17:27015 -> 67.164.108.150:27015 -> 64.74.96.244:27010
SINGLE:NO_TRAFFIC
That appears correct now. I have changed my related pf.conf lines to:
ext = "fxp0"
hlint = "192.168.0.17"
hlports = "{ 27015, 27016, 27017, 27018, 27019, 27020, 27021, 27023, \
27024 }"
nat on $ext from $int:network to any -> ($ext) static-port
rdr on $ext proto udp from any to any port $hlports -> $hlint
pass in quick on $ext proto udp from any to $hlint port $hlports
Being as I see people connect and a few have told me they found the server
in the Steam list something must be working. I still can't see it myself.
I changed the name a little bit, if anyone else can see it please let me
know, it's called:
hostname: [adi] http://quake2.telestream.com/
IP: 67.164.108.150
--
- m0gely
http://quake2.telestream.com/
Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike
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RE: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the master list.
Yeah, I know, Brainfart, I reposted.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten van der
Zwaart
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 2:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the
master list.
On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:58:16 -0400, Chance Sullivan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> m0gely These are you current rules
>
> rdr on fxp0 proto udp from any to any port 27015 -> 192.168.0.17 pass
> in on fxp0 proto udp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015
>
> Try these below, it corrects some crazyness your rules above would
produce:
> rdr on fxp0 inet proto { tcp, udp } from any to fxp0 port 27015 ->
> 192.168.0.17 port 27015
> pass in on fxp0 inet proto tcp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015
> modulate state
>
> This one below is for if you have 2 interfaces:
> pass out on fxp1 inet proto tcp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015
> modulate state
HLDS does not use incoming TCP connections on it's port, just UDP. You would
only need that for SRCDS as it uses TCP for RCON.
Maarten
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
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RE: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the master list.
Ack, I posted TCP rules, should be:
rdr on fxp0 inet proto udp from any to fxp0 port 27015 -> 192.168.0.17 port
27015
pass in on fxp0 inet proto udp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015 keep
state
This one below is for if you have 2 interfaces:
pass out on fxp1 inet proto udp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015 keep
state
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chance Sullivan
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 1:58 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the
master list.
m0gely These are you current rules
rdr on fxp0 proto udp from any to any port 27015 -> 192.168.0.17 pass in on
fxp0 proto udp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015
Try these below, it corrects some crazyness your rules above would produce:
rdr on fxp0 inet proto { tcp, udp } from any to fxp0 port 27015 ->
192.168.0.17 port 27015
pass in on fxp0 inet proto tcp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015 modulate
state
This one below is for if you have 2 interfaces:
pass out on fxp1 inet proto tcp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015 modulate
state
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of m0gely
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 2:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the
master list.
Ooks Server wrote:
> FYI - your server is currently listed in the Steam server list, and
> therefore is on the master list.. Have you changed anything lately or
> otherwise fixed something?
You know I was just about to post that. I don't know what I have done.
I have been cleaning up my pf.conf file but the rules are no different
than what I have used before. I am waiting on Maarten to answer a question
though about some suspucious pfctl output. Honestly I still can't see it.
But I saw players in it and when I did a stats I saw that
277 players had been in there.
--
- m0gely
http://quake2.telestream.com/
Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike
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RE: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the master list.
m0gely These are you current rules
rdr on fxp0 proto udp from any to any port 27015 -> 192.168.0.17
pass in on fxp0 proto udp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015
Try these below, it corrects some crazyness your rules above would produce:
rdr on fxp0 inet proto { tcp, udp } from any to fxp0 port 27015 ->
192.168.0.17 port 27015
pass in on fxp0 inet proto tcp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015 modulate
state
This one below is for if you have 2 interfaces:
pass out on fxp1 inet proto tcp from any to 192.168.0.17 port 27015 modulate
state
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of m0gely
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 2:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [hlds] Firewall Questions, port forwarding, no entry in the
master list.
Ooks Server wrote:
> FYI - your server is currently listed in the Steam server list, and
> therefore is on the master list.. Have you changed anything lately or
> otherwise fixed something?
You know I was just about to post that. I don't know what I have done.
I have been cleaning up my pf.conf file but the rules are no different
than what I have used before. I am waiting on Maarten to answer a question
though about some suspucious pfctl output. Honestly I still can't see it.
But I saw players in it and when I did a stats I saw that
277 players had been in there.
--
- m0gely
http://quake2.telestream.com/
Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike
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RE: [hlds] AMD or Intel?
They are on par with the xeons and are quick as hell. Here are the current benchmarks for the 1.8 & 3.0 and info. Well here is the stuff from AMD's site, it's geared toward their product, but it does state some facts as far as bus-speed and such. http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_8799,0 0.html Now here are the benchmarks. Single Opteron http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q2/cpu2000-20030421-02106.html Dual Opteron http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q2/cpu2000-20030421-02118.html Dell Single Xeon http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q2/cpu2000-20030404-02022.html Dell Dual Xeon http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q2/cpu2000-20030404-02023.html This page, you can search and look at the other results for the Intel's vs. amd as well as other cpu's such as Itanium and such. It has both the 1.8 and 3.06 Xeons, which are right on par with each other, and the opterons beating the xeons out quite a few times. http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2003q2/#SPECint This site has an abundance of benchmarks, even from systems most of us would never see such as a 128 CPU Itanium system. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Garner Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] AMD or Intel? On Wednesday, August 18, 2004 5:12 PM NZT, Chance Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Add Opteron's in there and you got the 4 corners. > Yeah, could do that as well, but I'm not sure how Opteron performance compares, anybody got some numbers for that too? For the same price as the Xeon 3GHz we'd only be able to get 1.8GHz Opterons. I know the clock speeds are not directly comparable but I suspect with Opteron we'd be paying a premium just for 64-bit, and not making much use of it. -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] AMD or Intel?
Add Opteron's in there and you got the 4 corners. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Garner Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 1:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [hlds] AMD or Intel? Hi people, It's that old war again and I need to choose sides. :) We are going to be building a bunch of 1U servers. For roughly the same price I have a choice between: AMD Athlon XP 3200 or Intel Pentium 4 3.2GHz Prescott socket 478 or Dual Xeon 3.0 GHz The dual Xeon's are about 1.5x the price of the other two but I figure they're at least 1.5x the performance/capacity so they're my favoured option currently. Although I've had good results with dual Athlon's before I'm not considering them this time around because the Athlon MPs seem to be lagging behind the XPs technologically, with lower GHz and slower FSB. Anyway, I am just wondering if anybody has made any side by side performance comparisons lately for HLDS on these CPU platforms. What's your pick? cheers -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2meg connection?
Don't ask me, It is confusing and crazy that all these different organizations can't agree. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guido Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 1:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2meg connection? Now why does the IEC has to make everything more confusing, now im so confused i dont know if right is wrong or wrong is wrong, right is right if wrong is right? - Original Message ----- From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:47 PM Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? > Click the link, It explains it. The new definition is 1024 instead of 1000, > just like Class A B & C addresses naming is the old way, CIDR is the > new definition. You learn the correct terminology and what the > standard is today, not yesterday. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:01 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? > > [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] > > 10 Megabits = 10,000,000 bits / Second. > > This is Networking, not Programming or Server Administration. > > Learn the correct terminology for your field or shut up! > Original Message Follows > From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:59:26 -0400 > Actaully both are right, but Dave is up to date. > http://www.atvci.net/bitsandbytes.html > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Garner > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:38 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [hlds] 2meg connection? > On Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:51 PM NZT, David Fencik > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 2 Mbps = 2048kbps != 2000kbps > > > > Dave > > > Actually, no, because you're talking about bits not bytes. > 1Mbit = 1000kbit > 1MByte = 1024kByte > -Simon > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > -- > -- > -- > SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here.[1] > > ===References:=== > 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2740??PS=47575 > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2meg connection?
http://www.iec.ch/ 2 Different Definitions, Most still use the old one. I am not redefining them. I would never dream of such a thing. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] So we are just going to redefine what the actual speeds are for 10Mbit, 100Mbit, 1Gbit and 10Gbit Network speeds are we?? I guess you will want to have to a chat to IEEE about that first! Original Message Follows From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:47:41 -0400 Click the link, It explains it. The new definition is 1024 instead of 1000, just like Class A B & C addresses naming is the old way, CIDR is the new definition. You learn the correct terminology and what the standard is today, not yesterday. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] 10 Megabits = 10,000,000 bits / Second. This is Networking, not Programming or Server Administration. Learn the correct terminology for your field or shut up! Original Message Follows---- From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:59:26 -0400 Actaully both are right, but Dave is up to date. http://www.atvci.net/bitsandbytes.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Garner Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2meg connection? On Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:51 PM NZT, David Fencik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2 Mbps = 2048kbps != 2000kbps > > Dave > Actually, no, because you're talking about bits not bytes. 1Mbit = 1000kbit 1MByte = 1024kByte -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here.[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2740??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- 10,000 children need sponsors - change a life[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENAU/2728??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2meg connection?
Click the link, It explains it. The new definition is 1024 instead of 1000, just like Class A B & C addresses naming is the old way, CIDR is the new definition. You learn the correct terminology and what the standard is today, not yesterday. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 11:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] 10 Megabits = 10,000,000 bits / Second. This is Networking, not Programming or Server Administration. Learn the correct terminology for your field or shut up! Original Message Follows From: "Chance Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:59:26 -0400 Actaully both are right, but Dave is up to date. http://www.atvci.net/bitsandbytes.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Garner Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2meg connection? On Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:51 PM NZT, David Fencik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2 Mbps = 2048kbps != 2000kbps > > Dave > Actually, no, because you're talking about bits not bytes. 1Mbit = 1000kbit 1MByte = 1024kByte -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here.[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2740??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2meg connection?
Actaully both are right, but Dave is up to date. http://www.atvci.net/bitsandbytes.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Garner Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] 2meg connection? On Wednesday, August 11, 2004 12:51 PM NZT, David Fencik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2 Mbps = 2048kbps != 2000kbps > > Dave > Actually, no, because you're talking about bits not bytes. 1Mbit = 1000kbit 1MByte = 1024kByte -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] 2meg connection?
LMAO! I was going to post the same thing! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Fencik Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 8:51 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? 2 Mbps = 2048kbps != 2000kbps Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper . Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 1:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [hlds] 2meg connection? [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Maths, its a skill for life!! 2Meg Connection usually means 2 Megabit b is for bit B is for Byte Do not forget it! Now for the rocket science maths! 2 Megabits = 2000Kbits/s 2000 / 8 = 250KiloBytes/Second Assuming it is a Symetrical connection 2Mb Up 2Mb Down then you have 250KB each way to play with. How you want to split it is up to you! If you want to support broadband users with properly optimised clients you are going to need 8-10KB/s per player If you only want to allow dumb arse defaults for people in backwards countries who only have 56K modems and haven't joined the 21st century yet, then you only need about 3KB/s each way per player. Does this help you? You may of course choose anything you want in between or even outside of those ranges, but ask youself this, there are >50,000 Counter-Strike Servers on the planet, do we really need another poorly configured one? Original Message Follows From: "Martin Dickson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [hlds] 2meg connection? Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:21:56 -0500 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm thinking about going colo with my dual xeon. It would be on a 2meg connection. The company doing the colo says this will easily accomodate 80 players in CS. One of my friends thinks it will hold 30 people. Could I get all of your opinions? Thanx -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- In the market for a car? Buy, sell or browse at Carpoint.[1] ===References:=== 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENAU/2746??PS=47575 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] floating port?
Ah I see, why in the hell was this comm made to work in such and asanine way? I am flabergasted as to why it was designed for such a requirment. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten van der Zwaart Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 6:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] floating port? On Mon, 31 May 2004 06:04:40 -0400, Chance Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Adam's analysis is correct. Basicly, you add a rule like so: > > rdr on $eth0 inet proto udp from any to $eth0 port 27015 -> > ser.ver.ip.addy port 27015 > > Which means, any packets coming from the internet to the NAT device on > port > 27015 should be sent to the machine with the ip of ser.ver.ip.addy. > This opens that port which the HLDS is running on to the internet. > Basicly, punching a hole through nat. the server itself will open up > whatever ports it needs to in order to communicate with the master > server and NAT will properly translate it and keep state so a return > path is open so it can communicate with the master servers. NAT will > also work with the client because it uses a port in 1024-65535 range > to open a connection to a server at with a port of 27015. Mapping the > 27015 is only needed for when your running a server through a NAT > device. Opening the port is needed when your running a firewall. Most > NAT/Firewall combos do both automaticly once you tell it the rule to > use. Yes, what I meant was a rule like this: nat on $ext_if proto udp from serverip port 27015 to any -> ($ext_if) static-port To make sure traffic initiated by the server from 27015 (like to the master servers) als comes from port 27015 on the router, not some random port assigned by the NAT router. If this is needed as a seperate rule depends very much on the NAT router used. Maarten ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
RE: [hlds] floating port?
Adam's analysis is correct. Basicly, you add a rule like so: rdr on $eth0 inet proto udp from any to $eth0 port 27015 -> ser.ver.ip.addy port 27015 Which means, any packets coming from the internet to the NAT device on port 27015 should be sent to the machine with the ip of ser.ver.ip.addy. This opens that port which the HLDS is running on to the internet. Basicly, punching a hole through nat. the server itself will open up whatever ports it needs to in order to communicate with the master server and NAT will properly translate it and keep state so a return path is open so it can communicate with the master servers. NAT will also work with the client because it uses a port in 1024-65535 range to open a connection to a server at with a port of 27015. Mapping the 27015 is only needed for when your running a server through a NAT device. Opening the port is needed when your running a firewall. Most NAT/Firewall combos do both automaticly once you tell it the rule to use. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Maarten van der Zwaart Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 5:23 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds] floating port? Are you talking about a NAT router here? As the HLDS does not have a dynamic port. Nor does the HL client. HLDS does not need or use a different port for each client, it can tell them apart by client IP/port. If you are using a NAT router you should set it to actually use port 27015 for outgoing packets with source port 27015. This will make sure all communications with both clients and master servers use port 27015 internally and externally. Otherwise the master servers may think your server is on another port, and not get listed (with WON anyway, I've never used or tested this setup with Steam). Maarten ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
