Re: [hlds_linux] Servers not coming up after a map change?
On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm having an issue where our servers are sometimes not accessible after a map change. The map changes, the server is still up but it does not respond in the server browser nor can you connect to it. It's not at 100% CPU either, it's not crashing at all or generating any logs. Sounds to me like you have an ill-behaved sourcemod plugin that is blocking. -Ken ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Servers not coming up after a map change?
Any chance at attaching a debugger? Should just be `gdb attach $pid` then `backtrace`, `info registers` as well if you're up for it. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks, Kyle. On 18 Jan 2013 11:25, Ken Bateman novadeni...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I'm having an issue where our servers are sometimes not accessible after a map change. The map changes, the server is still up but it does not respond in the server browser nor can you connect to it. It's not at 100% CPU either, it's not crashing at all or generating any logs. Sounds to me like you have an ill-behaved sourcemod plugin that is blocking. -Ken ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
This issue has been raised many times now, each time it seems to be dismissed in one way or another, and yet servers everywhere are still experiencing these Stringtable crashes. Servers running custom maps and content are basically under siege. Stock maps and modes may work alright with the various improvements Valve has made, but don't think for a second that these errors have been eradicated. Even small amounts of custom content put servers at risk for Stringtable crashes, and running full 32 players on a custom map with plugins nowadays is akin to server suicide. The crashes have been around for years now yes, but MvM has exponentially increased the frequency that they occur at. Yes we aren't forced to use custom content, sure it's not Valve's responsibility to accommodate us, but considering everything worked perfectly fine before the stupid robots showed up, it sucks pretty hard knowing that a lot of this game's modding potential has been destroyed by the fact that servers with custom content won't last more than 20 minutes before a crash. I know there are other people out there that share my concerns, if you're experiencing these problems as well I encourage you to speak up in hopes that maybe TF2 can go back to being the modding paradise it used to be. From: hlds_linux-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: hlds_linux Digest, Vol 59, Issue 27 To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:00:02 -0800 Send hlds_linux mailing list submissions to hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to hlds_linux-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com You can reach the person managing the list at hlds_linux-ow...@list.valvesoftware.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of hlds_linux digest... Today's Topics: 1. Servers not coming up after a map change? (Essay Tew Phaun) 2. L4D2 Update Released (hasser css) 3. Re: L4D2 Update Released (Scipizoa) 4. Re: L4D2 Update Released (hasser css) 5. Re: L4D2 Update Released (Sachin Sud) 6. Re: Servers not coming up after a map change? (Ken Bateman) 7. Re: Servers not coming up after a map change? (Kyle Sanderson) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:16:24 -0500 From: Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds_linux] Servers not coming up after a map change? Message-ID: CADEyYhuyLN2KNd3YZHehw2U+5-yTx170pu0=gzgaqgh61vb...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm having an issue where our servers are sometimes not accessible after a map change. The map changes, the server is still up but it does not respond in the server browser nor can you connect to it. It's not at 100% CPU either, it's not crashing at all or generating any logs. -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:33:46 -0500 From: hasser css hasserva...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com,Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list h...@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds_linux] L4D2 Update Released Message-ID: CABwe6QCWpoRRpHjUvAoAcmdpSPGQ2fk+cbkV_fr0=9yuyba...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 No one sends out these emails anymore for L4D2 but yeah. Update is out, go grab it. -- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:36:25 -0500 (EST) From: Scipizoa scipi...@aol.com To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] L4D2 Update Released Message-ID: aeea38b9-211e-4631-b9bc-f91f8ae58...@phoenix.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 is anyone having trouble with their servers after the updates, ? like? crashing or anything From: hasser css hasserva...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com, Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list h...@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 at 10:33 pm Subject: [hlds_linux] L4D2 Update Released No one sends out these emails anymore for L4D2 but yeah. Update is out, go grab it. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:42:03 -0500 From: hasser css hasserva...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re:
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
Hmmm, I said this a few weeks ago and everyone got mad at me... On , Essay Tew Phaun wrote: I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux [1] Links: -- [1] https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] DMESG LOG / Message: UDP: short packet
Hi folks, I have a question about the logs attached below: [8687918.348720] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 50/44 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688154.114667] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 51/40 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688193.390630] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 44/43 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688297.085966] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 49/44 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688354.986654] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 49/39 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688537.877283] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 51/49 to 200.58.97.121:27024 [8688662.819592] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 42/41 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679718.078109] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 49320/48 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679741.662004] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 308/54 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679760.842512] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 308/76 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680347.573463] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/46 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680358.973280] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/48 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680426.952825] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 308/49 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680672.948758] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/39 to 200.58.97.121:27029 Always stop the attack denying IP with iptables, but every day I see many different IPs appear to attack the server, have some iptables rule to block the package? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this. Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size? On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] DMESG LOG / Message: UDP: short packet
Sorry for omitting data, I'm running servers Counter-Strike 1.6. SO: Ubuntu Server 12.04 On Vie 18 Ene 2013 20:39:04 Mico escribió: Hi folks, I have a question about the logs attached below: [8687918.348720] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 50/44 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688154.114667] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 51/40 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688193.390630] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 44/43 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688297.085966] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 49/44 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688354.986654] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 49/39 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688537.877283] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 51/49 to 200.58.97.121:27024 [8688662.819592] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 42/41 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679718.078109] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 49320/48 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679741.662004] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 308/54 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679760.842512] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 308/76 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680347.573463] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/46 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680358.973280] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/48 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680426.952825] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 308/49 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680672.948758] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/39 to 200.58.97.121:27029 Always stop the attack denying IP with iptables, but every day I see many different IPs appear to attack the server, have some iptables rule to block the package? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] DMESG LOG / Message: UDP: short packet
The kernel drops the packets with invalid length (short packet) or for which checksum validation fails (bad checksum), so you don't have to add any rules for them (I verified the source code long time ago, so I'm quite sure about this). Also I doubt that your server is attacked, probably you receive few invalid packets per day, like everybody else. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Mico Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2013 2:08 AM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] DMESG LOG / Message: UDP: short packet Sorry for omitting data, I'm running servers Counter-Strike 1.6. SO: Ubuntu Server 12.04 On Vie 18 Ene 2013 20:39:04 Mico escribió: Hi folks, I have a question about the logs attached below: [8687918.348720] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 50/44 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688154.114667] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 51/40 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688193.390630] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 44/43 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688297.085966] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 49/44 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688354.986654] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 49/39 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8688537.877283] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 51/49 to 200.58.97.121:27024 [8688662.819592] UDP: short packet: From 200.117.220.244:27005 42/41 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679718.078109] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 49320/48 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679741.662004] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 308/54 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8679760.842512] UDP: short packet: From 190.18.153.48:15623 308/76 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680347.573463] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/46 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680358.973280] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/48 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680426.952825] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 308/49 to 200.58.97.121:27029 [8680672.948758] UDP: short packet: From 181.166.32.20:5380 318/39 to 200.58.97.121:27029 Always stop the attack denying IP with iptables, but every day I see many different IPs appear to attack the server, have some iptables rule to block the package? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S, the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games as well. Hope this helps, Kyle. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald abkow...@gmail.com wrote: Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this. Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size? On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-Strike Source.
Well, it's happened. CS:S forked internally, and now requires extra effort to update. As a result of this, CS:S hasn't been updated in quite sometime. I would have liked to have never seen this coming, to have been wrong. This is unfortunately not the case. This was pretty malicious, and while my disappointment carries no weight, I am. Kyle Sanderson. On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Henry Goffin hen...@valvesoftware.comwrote: I understand the concern, but it's based on an incorrect assumption. Yes, CS:S now stores its own binaries in a different folder. However, it has not actually branched away from the Source 2009 engine, and it still compiles from the same source code. We have simply gained the option of updating the binaries independently, so that for example, if an engine change is required for a TF feature but ends up causing a bug in CS:S, we can still deploy TF2 without updating CS:S. Updates will continue to come for both games, and the engine will be roughly in sync between the two, except for periods of instability. For example, given the problems with the very latest Team Fortress update, I would assume that CS:S admins are quite happy to not be impacted. We will still be updating CS:S with all the Source 2009 engine fixes, just not at the exact same time. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:13 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-Strike Source. So, as some of you may have noticed... The last, and apparently final shared Engine/Game update (Manniversary... don't even get me started) moved Counter-Strike Source off of Source 2009 and into it's own engine branch. This was a deliberate change. What does this mean for the end user? No more shared binaries between HL2DM, DOD:S, and TF2. If you use MM:S, SM (including extensions), ES, or any sort of VSP, the author will now have to compile a binary built against the CSS SDK instead of Source 2009. This is needlessly increasing work for plugin authors. Another issue with this is after the 12th of November, 2007 until the 23rd of June, 2010. Fixes were being backported days, weeks, or even months after they're more then public knowledge and are exploited. A decent example of this is sv_soundscape_printdebuginfo, after 5 months it was back ported to Episode 1... That was really gross then, who would want it to happen again? Just to reiterate how serious this is. On June 25th of 2010, Valve fixed the .dll loading exploit on Source 2009 (Which included CSS, thank god). To this date (I just remembered this existed from looking at old patch notes for OB, there's probably a number of exploits that were never fixed), the exploit still functions perfectly on L4D, L4D2 (requires -insecure on the client), and of course the older engines. The exploit allows for servers to run arbitrary code on clients. This can include anything from infecting them via the built in lobby system (they'd have to join a server, if it's a versus match even better). From there, the .dll could do something as simple as inviting friends to join them to play a match, then start downloading and executing code on the client whenever it wants. If CS:S wasn't part of the Source 2009 pact, I highly doubt it would have received this fix (HL2DM sure didn't have it for three months until it was ported). Everyone knows how bad GarrysMod 9 had gotten when GMod 10 came out, this can be L4D today and we would be none the wiser. What do we gain from this change? Slightly faster download speeds for HL2DM, DODS, and TF2 as CSS is no longer part of the update package (Mind you it's not like CSS was not the game getting the constant material/model updates...). Sure, this is nice. However, killing Counter-Strike Source before CS:GO comes out really can't be the goal here, right? VoiceHook is already broken because of the last required update, and needs to be built against the old SDK for server admins to be able to use it. Everything other plugin will follow as the Source 2009 engine continues to be updated. Hate me if you want for saying this, I haven't told a lie though. Kyle. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
Don't all stringtables get cleared upon level change? I know they all get created when the map is loaded, so it stands to reason that they are automatically deleted on level shutdown. Kind regards, Saul Rennison On 19 January 2013 02:47, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S, the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games as well. Hope this helps, Kyle. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald abkow...@gmail.com wrote: Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this. Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size? On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-StrikeSource.
I'm sincerely not trying to offend anyone with this post, but I would like to know why Hidden Path was the development team that Valve decided to let run CS. Their only other game besides the two now dead Counter Strike versions is a Tower Defense game. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Grid:_The_Awakening) I feel that the loss of popularity in both CS:S and CS:GO can be directly attributed to Hidden Path. To my understanding Hidden Path was mostly responible for the large 2010 beta update for CS:S that moved it over to the updated source engine (Orangebox). Since then the game has had a steady decline, and then after seeing CS:S decline Hidden Path is assigned to work on another CS? The community has just been separated more by adding another game, which also isn't thriving. I just think this was a mistake made on Valve's part allowing a group of inexperienced developers to work on such a large title. - Original Message - From: Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Cc: er...@valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-StrikeSource. Well, it's happened. CS:S forked internally, and now requires extra effort to update. As a result of this, CS:S hasn't been updated in quite sometime. I would have liked to have never seen this coming, to have been wrong. This is unfortunately not the case. This was pretty malicious, and while my disappointment carries no weight, I am. Kyle Sanderson. On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Henry Goffin hen...@valvesoftware.comwrote: I understand the concern, but it's based on an incorrect assumption. Yes, CS:S now stores its own binaries in a different folder. However, it has not actually branched away from the Source 2009 engine, and it still compiles from the same source code. We have simply gained the option of updating the binaries independently, so that for example, if an engine change is required for a TF feature but ends up causing a bug in CS:S, we can still deploy TF2 without updating CS:S. Updates will continue to come for both games, and the engine will be roughly in sync between the two, except for periods of instability. For example, given the problems with the very latest Team Fortress update, I would assume that CS:S admins are quite happy to not be impacted. We will still be updating CS:S with all the Source 2009 engine fixes, just not at the exact same time. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:13 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-Strike Source. So, as some of you may have noticed... The last, and apparently final shared Engine/Game update (Manniversary... don't even get me started) moved Counter-Strike Source off of Source 2009 and into it's own engine branch. This was a deliberate change. What does this mean for the end user? No more shared binaries between HL2DM, DOD:S, and TF2. If you use MM:S, SM (including extensions), ES, or any sort of VSP, the author will now have to compile a binary built against the CSS SDK instead of Source 2009. This is needlessly increasing work for plugin authors. Another issue with this is after the 12th of November, 2007 until the 23rd of June, 2010. Fixes were being backported days, weeks, or even months after they're more then public knowledge and are exploited. A decent example of this is sv_soundscape_printdebuginfo, after 5 months it was back ported to Episode 1... That was really gross then, who would want it to happen again? Just to reiterate how serious this is. On June 25th of 2010, Valve fixed the .dll loading exploit on Source 2009 (Which included CSS, thank god). To this date (I just remembered this existed from looking at old patch notes for OB, there's probably a number of exploits that were never fixed), the exploit still functions perfectly on L4D, L4D2 (requires -insecure on the client), and of course the older engines. The exploit allows for servers to run arbitrary code on clients. This can include anything from infecting them via the built in lobby system (they'd have to join a server, if it's a versus match even better). From there, the .dll could do something as simple as inviting friends to join them to play a match, then start downloading and executing code on the client whenever it wants. If CS:S wasn't part of the Source 2009 pact, I highly doubt it would have received this fix (HL2DM sure didn't have it for three months until it was ported). Everyone knows how bad GarrysMod 9 had gotten when GMod 10 came out, this can be L4D today and we would be none the wiser. What do we gain from this change? Slightly faster download speeds for HL2DM, DODS, and
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
This is the single biggest crasher on all my servers. I get around ~4 crashes a day due to stringtable overflows. This negatively affects my stock MvM server. I feel in the future with the addition of more items, the additional precaching will leave that server in an entirely unreliable state of constant crashing. *Please* do something about this, even if it requires breaking demo compatibility (which seems to already be happening with the number of people who tell me their demos are broken) or mountains of code to not break said compatibility. There are countless server operators out there that are also suffering from this, and we could really all benefit from a fix. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Saul Rennison saul.renni...@gmail.comwrote: Don't all stringtables get cleared upon level change? I know they all get created when the map is loaded, so it stands to reason that they are automatically deleted on level shutdown. Kind regards, Saul Rennison On 19 January 2013 02:47, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S, the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games as well. Hope this helps, Kyle. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald abkow...@gmail.com wrote: Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this. Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size? On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
Something's going wrong with the StringTable. Even on the server side, adding too many items to the modelpercache, soundprecache, and downloadables stringtables will cause the server to crash by overflowing another unrelated Stringtable, usually ServerMapCycleMvM. On a non-MvM server. On 1/18/2013 10:08 PM, Saul Rennison wrote: Don't all stringtables get cleared upon level change? I know they all get created when the map is loaded, so it stands to reason that they are automatically deleted on level shutdown. Kind regards, Saul Rennison On 19 January 2013 02:47, Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com wrote: Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S, the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games as well. Hope this helps, Kyle. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald abkow...@gmail.com wrote: Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this. Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size? On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-StrikeSource.
I am also disappointed. I, like Kyle in his way have been supporting CS:S community-wise a lot. He has done plugins/addons, i have done many maps. I expected more from Valve than this. This update has been coming on for so long that i don't even remember when it started coming. Postponed so many times. But sadly it's only an engine sync. -ics 19.1.2013 6:22, Calvin Judy kirjoitti: I'm sincerely not trying to offend anyone with this post, but I would like to know why Hidden Path was the development team that Valve decided to let run CS. Their only other game besides the two now dead Counter Strike versions is a Tower Defense game. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Grid:_The_Awakening) I feel that the loss of popularity in both CS:S and CS:GO can be directly attributed to Hidden Path. To my understanding Hidden Path was mostly responible for the large 2010 beta update for CS:S that moved it over to the updated source engine (Orangebox). Since then the game has had a steady decline, and then after seeing CS:S decline Hidden Path is assigned to work on another CS? The community has just been separated more by adding another game, which also isn't thriving. I just think this was a mistake made on Valve's part allowing a group of inexperienced developers to work on such a large title. - Original Message - From: Kyle Sanderson kyle.l...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Cc: er...@valvesoftware.com Sent: Friday, January 18, 2013 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-StrikeSource. Well, it's happened. CS:S forked internally, and now requires extra effort to update. As a result of this, CS:S hasn't been updated in quite sometime. I would have liked to have never seen this coming, to have been wrong. This is unfortunately not the case. This was pretty malicious, and while my disappointment carries no weight, I am. Kyle Sanderson. On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Henry Goffin hen...@valvesoftware.comwrote: I understand the concern, but it's based on an incorrect assumption. Yes, CS:S now stores its own binaries in a different folder. However, it has not actually branched away from the Source 2009 engine, and it still compiles from the same source code. We have simply gained the option of updating the binaries independently, so that for example, if an engine change is required for a TF feature but ends up causing a bug in CS:S, we can still deploy TF2 without updating CS:S. Updates will continue to come for both games, and the engine will be roughly in sync between the two, except for periods of instability. For example, given the problems with the very latest Team Fortress update, I would assume that CS:S admins are quite happy to not be impacted. We will still be updating CS:S with all the Source 2009 engine fixes, just not at the exact same time. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:13 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: [hlds] The Premature Death of Counter-Strike Source. So, as some of you may have noticed... The last, and apparently final shared Engine/Game update (Manniversary... don't even get me started) moved Counter-Strike Source off of Source 2009 and into it's own engine branch. This was a deliberate change. What does this mean for the end user? No more shared binaries between HL2DM, DOD:S, and TF2. If you use MM:S, SM (including extensions), ES, or any sort of VSP, the author will now have to compile a binary built against the CSS SDK instead of Source 2009. This is needlessly increasing work for plugin authors. Another issue with this is after the 12th of November, 2007 until the 23rd of June, 2010. Fixes were being backported days, weeks, or even months after they're more then public knowledge and are exploited. A decent example of this is sv_soundscape_printdebuginfo, after 5 months it was back ported to Episode 1... That was really gross then, who would want it to happen again? Just to reiterate how serious this is. On June 25th of 2010, Valve fixed the .dll loading exploit on Source 2009 (Which included CSS, thank god). To this date (I just remembered this existed from looking at old patch notes for OB, there's probably a number of exploits that were never fixed), the exploit still functions perfectly on L4D, L4D2 (requires -insecure on the client), and of course the older engines. The exploit allows for servers to run arbitrary code on clients. This can include anything from infecting them via the built in lobby system (they'd have to join a server, if it's a versus match even better). From there, the .dll could do something as simple as inviting friends to join them to play a match, then start downloading and executing code on
Re: [hlds_linux] [TF2] Stringtable overflows and crashes caused by precaching
On CSS i've had cases where custom map used custom models and textures and if the model was re-textured and saved same name, they go in one map to the other if that map is next in line that also uses them. Red sofa's become black, file cabinets, shiny ones become also black if the previous map had them changed to black (good example de_nightfever - cs_office). So propably stringtable for particles isn't cleared either. Some maps break the server easier than others, i've located few that make the server crash later after that map has been on previously (de_crane, de_cross_strike). -ics 19.1.2013 4:47, Kyle Sanderson kirjoitti: Depending on the table, it's never cleared from map to map. I know in CS:S, the particle stringtable is never cleared. Playing one custom map can destroy another, for the lifetime of the server. At least this is what I was told months ago, it stands to reason this bug is present in other games as well. Hope this helps, Kyle. On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Alex Kowald abkow...@gmail.com wrote: Can't do anything else but bump this. Everyone's servers suffer from this. Is there any good reason Valve can't just increase the size? On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Essay Tew Phaun sc2p...@gmail.com wrote: I just think it's pathetic that you can't even tell anymore what is at fault. Is it the clients? Is it the servers? Who knows. Both crash with just about as much frequency and you can bet your bottom dollar that every big update will be replete with crashing issues. Steam going down, Quickplay logging out, crashing on map changes, crashing on MOTD, crashing for being in spectator, crashing due to stringtable overflows, it never ends. *SPEND* *SOME* *TIME OPTIMIZING THE SERVERS AND CLIENT STOP RELEASING HUGE UPDATES UNTIL THESE ARE STABLE* ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
