Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
Edge100x wrote: No, its not possible, as people would have to modify firewalls etc... to allow the downloading of client-side VAC modules would obviously require that people have the information from Valve on how to do that. Firewalls come into my theory how? Do you really think the VAC is _entirely_ client side? It can't possibly be. Are you reading the same email as me? He meant server side. -- - m0gely http://quake2.telestream.com/ Q2 | Q3A | Counter-strike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
i disagree completely! the best way to thwart wallhacks is EXACTLY how hlguard does it. by simply not sending the information about enemies you shouldn't see to the client. there's nothing a client side cheat can do to defeat that because the information simply isn't sent. it the VAC wallhack is client side, then all you have to do is defeat it and bang, wallhack is back. Barry L. Jeung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:mailman.1036617843.12700.hlds_linux;list.valvesoftware.com... And any server-side solution is going to fall short. Hence the automatic update for VAC. They know it's gonna get hacked, but with a distibution system in place, and the ability to change it up a little bit to foil the bypass and unobtrusively update the system, then you have a relatively secure environment. -Original Message- From: Jules (aka Buddha-Pest) [mailto:buddha;buddhapest.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 12:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4 omg i hope you're not right. if you are, then VAC sux :( any client side solution can be hacked. [A.G.D]Beton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:mailman.1036614543.12189.hlds_linux;list.valvesoftware.com... Afaik the VAC-Whblock is not using any server-CPU time cause it is running on the Client completely. The Server is only involved in distributing the VAC-module. uh, i believe you're completely wrong buddy the whole POINT is for the server to NOT send data about players your client shouldn't see. The popmonkey speaks the truth :) -- Eric (the Deacon remix) I am sorry but I think you are completely mixing HLGuard up with VAC and don´t seem to understand the way VAC works. The secure module is NEVER, at no point executed at the server. The VAC Modul is a Windows-DLL! How could it be executed at a Linux Server??? Matt writes a DLL with certain Cheat-detections and the client-side Wallhackblock. He uploads them to Speakeasy. All secure Game-Servers download these DLLs and if a Client connects he downloads them from the Gameserver. The Client then checks with Speakeasy if he got a valid VAC-Modul (to prevent malicious hackers). If this is confirmed,the simple, plain VAC-DLL is executed on local client. VAC-Whblock can´t at anytime be server-side cause the modul is not starting at the server. HLGuard is different and has server-side anti-wallhack but Cheating-Death and VAC are client side. Best Regards, Beton ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
i disagree completely! the best way to thwart wallhacks is EXACTLY how hlguard does it. by simply not sending the information about enemies you shouldn't see to the client. there's nothing a client side cheat can do to defeat that because the information simply isn't sent. it the VAC wallhack is client side, then all you have to do is defeat it and bang, wallhack is back. Sort of. But don't forget, if you don't send info about where the other players are, to all the players where would the sound of footsteps come from? Hope this art work comes out OK: Real World If T makes noise | | | \ - sound comes from here. | | |(T) | (CT) | | Halflife (CS) world If T makes noise | | | \ | | |(T) | - (CT) sound comes from here. | | I'd love it if that could be fixed. Oh and shoting trough massive walls sucks, but I digress. James. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
footsteps should be sent separately! James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:mailman.1036628525.14728.hlds_linux;list.valvesoftware.com... | i disagree completely! the best way to thwart wallhacks is EXACTLY how | hlguard does it. by simply not sending the information about enemies you | shouldn't see to the client. there's nothing a client side cheat can do to | defeat that because the information simply isn't sent. it the VAC wallhack | is client side, then all you have to do is defeat it and bang, wallhack is | back. | | Sort of. But don't forget, if you don't send info about where the other | players are, to all the players where would the sound of footsteps | come from? | | Hope this art work comes out OK: | | Real World | If T makes noise | | | | | | | \ - sound comes from here. | | | | |(T) | (CT) | | | | | | Halflife (CS) world | If T makes noise | | | | | | \ | | | | |(T) | - (CT) sound comes from here. | | | | | | I'd love it if that could be fixed. Oh and shoting trough massive walls | sucks, but I digress. | | James. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
On Thu, 2002-11-07 at 13:19, James Clark wrote: Sort of. But don't forget, if you don't send info about where the other players are, to all the players where would the sound of footsteps come from? Hope this art work comes out OK: Real World If T makes noise | | | \ - sound comes from here. | | |(T) | (CT) | | Halflife (CS) world If T makes noise | | | \ | | |(T) | - (CT) sound comes from here. | | Youre right, but one thing, the sounds, even though to the CT is coming from the doorway, still IS being produced directly though the wall from him. Regardless of where the sound is being heard from, the server/client would still need to know where the sound is being produced to accurately portray fading/direction (eg 2 doors, noise comes out both of them). I dare say, catching the clients would be far easier than rebuilding the sound engine, and keeping it accurate. -- -- Jeremy B -- -- -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh and shoting trough massive walls sucks, but I digress. That is something I would love to see fixed. Perhaps in CS:CZ? It's a bit stupid how people can shoot through a 2-foot thick concrete wall and kill you. In effect, there is very little cover available in CS if people know where you are. A lot of people don't realise it but there are a lot of seemingly thick walls in many maps that you can fire straight through; I'm seeing more and more people taking to spamming corners as they come round them, because the bullets go straight through the (solid concrete block) wall and hit anyone waiting there -- giving the attacker an advantage where in reality they would be vulnerable. Moreover, shooting through wooden boxes (which *should* of course be possible) doesn't seem to affect the bullet's trajectory or even have any discernible impact on the amount of damage done. I've noticed people sometimes sitting behind a wooden box (e.g. on the overbridge at bombsite A on de_dust2), shooting at people they know are there (in the sniper area). They can stay hidden, and kill the other guy without actually being able to see him (no wallhack necessary, just some smarts). Of course the other guy could shoot back and kill him through the box, but often people don't realise that. The point though is the first guy has an advantage he shouldn't have; shooting through the box should screw up his shots. As I understand it (based on the info in those old CS reports on summerblue.net), each map is divided into a grid of cubes (the size of which depends on the size and shape of the map). You can shoot through up to two of these map units. While I'm sure this is the easiest way of doing things, it doesn't work very well at all. There must be a better way to do it. Fixing this would eliminate a lot of the bullshit! frustration caused when people kill you in ways which would be impossible in reality, and should be impossible here. I'd put it *almost* in the same boat as cheat ing (but not quite). Sorting this would actually make the game slightly more difficult (for experienced players), as they'd have to develop tactics to overcome such situations, instead of simply exploiting bugs. -Simon ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 03:19:54PM +1300, Simon Garner wrote: James Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh and shooting trough massive walls sucks, but I digress. That is something I would love to see fixed. Perhaps in CS:CZ? It's a bit stupid how people can shoot through a 2-foot thick concrete wall and kill you. Yup. It was (up until recently, I guess) something that happenned all to often, wall hack + AK = painful bites with bullets. Never killing, only maiming, until the point you were so fuxt you'd die when the next guy shot you. Not to mention grenades through walls! That sucks even harder. James. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
Re: bullets and walls I'm sure if it were any small undertaking, they would have fixed it by now. Problem is, it would require classifying every texture in the game... And I don't know how well BSP stands up to distance calculations based on bullet impact and exits Probably require a major overhaul. Like proper vehicles. :-) I love getting killed through the 1.5 foot think concrete columns on aztec. That rocks my world. Oh yeah, and the nades... Frag grenades dammit! Not this HE crap. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
Well apparently it affected your ability to cheat enough that it prompted you to send this email. Just wait till Valve improves it. Soon, you and your cheating buddies will be out of business. What will you do then? Attempt to mail flood every admin on this list, Karl? Or, wait, is Karl one of your gmx buddies? You all look the same to me. Received: from mx0.gmx.net (SENTRY [192.168.100.4]) by ramius.hardwarefreak.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id Q5LHWYCY; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:14:54 -0500 Received: (qmail 21583 invoked by uid 0); 2 Sep 2002 00:02:52 - Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 02:02:51 +0200 (MEST) From: Karl Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from mail.gmx.net (mail.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by list.valvesoftware.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6EEF72F1B for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mon, 4 Nov 2002 17:34:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 11127 invoked by uid 0); 5 Nov 2002 01:33:39 - Received: from pd9ea0a53.dip.t-dialin.net (HELO rob2) (217.234.10.83) by mail.gmx.net (mp013-rz3) with SMTP; 5 Nov 2002 01:33:39 - Message-ID: 001901c2846b$60658bf0$0100a8c0@rob2 From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stan -Original Message- From: Rob [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4 Hello, I tested it with my testWH ... well, ok, only for one or 2 seconds I can see the enemy ... but thats enough, if it's the second before he comes in my viewing area ... Thats the second that I have to aim ant the enemy not ... :( The WH blocking must be more accurate ... this fucking working second must be eleminated ... BR Rob ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
Afaik the VAC-Whblock is not using any server-CPU time cause it is running on the Client completely. The Server is only involved in distributing the VAC-module. HLGuard is completely server-side so it is taking a lot of CPU time. VAC Wallhackblock is more like Cheating Death. The disadvantage is, that it can be worked around but it is only made to stop OpenGL-Hacks and not client.dll hooks. You should see no higher CPU load at all. Best Regards, Beton http://www.nocheat.de i think it's fair to say that any sort of WH blocking is going to eat= a lot of CPU resources. the server now has to calculate clipping between e= very player and every enemy so as to send only the visible stuff to each p= layer. that's a lot of math. it's how the HLGuard WH works (cpu usage on my server went from 40% w= ithout WH blocking to 90% with using HLGuard, it's now hovering around 80% w= ith a full server with the VAC WH blocker, so it's a little less intensive = than the HLG one) THC_Vaporizer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:mailman.1036454882.12725.hlds_linux;list.valvesoftware.com... This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I haven't had the time nor the foresight to measure this, but has any= one noticed an increase in CPU or memory usage due to the security module upgrades and their increasing capabilities. I can't be sure, but I t= hink I'm seeing increased load from the server compared to yesterday. How= ever, this may be unrelated to the module upgrade. ~vap -- Bongs 'R dUSt HLDS 24.43.236.74:27015 http://members.rogers.com/counterstrike ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
On Tuesday 05 November 2002 02:38, Nick McLaren wrote: Remember, the occluder is purposefully configured to be a bit conservative in what it occludes in order to prevent issues where a player is occluded in the non-wallhacked game when they are supposed to be visible. In other words, to make sure the player is visible when they are supposed to be, for example in situations where only part of the player is showing (through picket-fence entities and such). You'll notice a slight lag before player entities behind fences or thin walls are occluded to prevent this. From what I understand they will still be tweaking it though. Don't be too harsh as this is a very big improvement over what we had just hours ago. =) --- Nick McLaren, CCNA, SCSA BattleLAN Technical Admin [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.battlelan.com/ --- On Tue, 5 Nov 2002, Jay Anstiss wrote: Rob said: The WH blocking must be more accurate ... this bleep working second must be eleminated ... And use of offensive language like that must be eliminated too! ;) I'm sure that this is the first step in Valve's attempt to get this working. Give them time...they've only just released it. Jay. Om loving it already :) BTW, what should HLG be configured to now? does it still have a purpose? I'm not ranting HLG here, I just want to know :) -- Insert clever remark here ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] New Security Modules -November 4
Correct me if I'm wrong but it is server-side and all it does is stop the drawing of players who are behind walls, so wallhacks that see player models through walls no longer function. Things like seeing people through boxes and doors may still work because the models are still drawn in those cases. So I think in essence since less models are being drawn on the screen it would seem any CPU hit would be leveled out by drawing less modals on screen. -Stan [A.G.D]Beton wrote: Afaik the VAC-Whblock is not using any server-CPU time cause it is running on the Client completely. The Server is only involved in distributing the VAC-module. HLGuard is completely server-side so it is taking a lot of CPU time. VAC Wallhackblock is more like Cheating Death. The disadvantage is, that it can be worked around but it is only made to stop OpenGL-Hacks and not client.dll hooks. You should see no higher CPU load at all. Best Regards, Beton http://www.nocheat.de ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
