RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Oooops. Typical plucking the words. I never said that clean mouth & teeth "will prevent valve wear more than oiling", but it has a lot to do with "sticking valves" - I repeat: STICKING VALVES, SLOWING VALVES. - well, those particles do not stuck on the inside wall of the instrument but at the corners (valve section, soldering points). Indeed, oiling is good, if not done in excess, as too much oil accumulates also dust. If the oil is not the right one . And the "red rot" ??? The horn factories do not clean away the excess solder by hand but by a chemical bath, which is quite aggressive. If this chemical is not neutralized properly by extensive rinsing or another bath, the metal is ruined forever. Ken said: Red rot comes from inside the horn. Yes, off course, but created by the chemical situation inside the horn, which is caused to a greater deal by the USER´s habit (saliva, food, drinks, cleaning, oiling inside perhaps - I hate that smell & taste - etc.), but also caused by players demand to get a cheap priced horn & factories forced to production methods to save costs. They could use goldbrass lead pipes instead of brass, or at least special yellow brass. The same would apply to the valve rotors. If they are made of an alloy which is more resistant against wear (like bronze-brass or shipbuilding brass - never seen ? Watch the sailing boats which have a lot of brass, which is even seawater resistant for a long time.) But these things would increase the prices for a few percent. But I repeat here: the main factor is the human factor, the negligence of the users-players. Dents in the horn ? Pack it in the case whenever you leave the horn alone. Hold it properly infront of your chest & wrap it with both arms or at least left arm when walking to the stage or the pit. Just a change of habit will save you a lot of trouble & money. A micro fibre small towel to clean the "touching points" of your horn after use, will keep the horn "shiny" even it is not lacquered, but not forever but for a longer while. Just discipline. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] dental check
Hello Brittany, how often do you see your dentist ? I go twice a year for a check, say routine special cleaning + check. Advantage: anything to be repaired will be discovered before grater damage will happen. Benefit: Insurance will pay higher percentage refund for repair. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kerri c davies Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 2:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Clean teeth, clean valves Hey, everyone, I'd say I agree with Hans. The last time I went to the dentist, he complained because there was nothing for him to clean off... I was plaque and cavity free! Besides, when my mouth feels clean, I feel my instrument responds better. -Brittany ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Clean teeth, clean valves
Brushing the teeth before playing can maintain a better hygiene inside the horn. Not he food residue will not accumulate in the inside of the horn, but our body may also be more healthy. (The food residue in the horn may contain bacteria) If a layer of food residue dirts are formed inside the horn, the horn sound may not good. Simone - Original Message - From: "kerri c davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:00 AM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Clean teeth, clean valves > Hey, everyone, I'd say I agree with Hans. > > My Conn 6D's valves are leaky because it is a twenty-plus year old school > instrument and has been used and abused in the past. In its entire life, > I've probably given it the most attention, and before me it sat in its > case for at least ten years. But not only is it good for your horn, but > great for your teeth!! The last time I went to the dentist, he complained > because there was nothing for him to clean off... I was plaque and cavity > free! Besides, when my mouth feels clean, I feel my instrument responds > better. There is no scientific or logical explanation I can think of, > that's just what I feel. Maybe my horn is "happier". (Okay Cabbage, have > at it, I asked for it, I can feel it coming). > > I have another question for all of you professional players and graduate > students. Howw many hours of actual time with the horn at your face in > the practice room not rehearsals is ideal for a college freshman music > major with professional playing aspriations? I can only get about four to > five hours, the hours I' not at work or in class. Will this be > sufficient? I hear about those who get six hours plus of individual > practice time, and I don't see how it is possible for the full time > student without expiriencing sleep deficiencies. > -Brittany > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/ywfamily%40netvigator.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Foster, I suppose you'll rinse the toothpaste off your oral cavity after brushing your teeth, so I don't think toothpaste will go to the valves if we brushed our teeth using toothpaste beforehand. Simone - Original Message - From: "Herbert Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "The Horn List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 6:34 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope > Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent > (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. > > Herb Foster > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hans Writes: No wonder, if players feed themselves before playing, > > during the intermissions WITHOUT cleaning their mouth & teeth properly > > BEFORE bringing up the horn to the lips again !!! Pack a tooth cleaning > > pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It > > is more important than oiling the horn every week. > > > > I use a horn made 1978. The valves are tight as they were on the first > > day: absolutely tight but super fast & noiseless. And the slides are > > still blank. And the horn is clean inside even I spill it just every two > > months. > > > > > > Hans,,, Wrong Wrong Wrong.. > > Perhaps that worked for you, but I would never tell anyone that brushing > > their teeth before playing will prevent valve wear more than oiling. > > Wrong Wrong Wrong!!! (and I'm even trying to be subtle here) > > The act of oiling creates a thin film on the bore of the instrument - so > > all those food particles, and acids etc can't attach to the brass and > > cause dezincification - and eventually valve wear. > > Hans, by the way, dezinicification/redrot - is NOT the redness that > > occurs due to tarnishing,,, it starts on the INSIDE of the horn. During > > our last go around on this subject you described something that was NOT > > dezincification > > > > So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops > > every other day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card > > handy) > > > > Signed: > > > > Pope Ken Pope Alexander > > > > > > > > "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" > > > > > > Dealer of Kuhn and Durk Horns > > Pope Instrument Repair > > 80 Wenham Street > > Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 > > 617-522-0532 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:00 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 > > > > Send Horn mailing list submissions to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." > > > > > > Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include > > the entire digest in your reply. > > > > Today's Topics: > > > >1. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Steve Selby) > >2. KEN THE POPE? (jdelarosa) > >3. Pope Pope (Ralph Mazza) > >4. Re: Horn testing (kerri c davies) > >5. Getting a job at Holton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > >6. Re: Re: Horn testing (Russ Smiley) > >7. New 6D old 6D (Leonard & Peggy Brown) > >8. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Hans Pizka) > >9. RE: Re: Horn testing (Hans Pizka) > > 10. Alex serial #'s (Jeremy Ristow) > > 11. Re: Alex serial #'s (Wilbert Kimple) > > 12. RE: Alex serial #'s (Jonathan West) > > 13. RE: Alex serial #'s (Hans Pizka) > > 14. Re: New 6D old 6D (Alan Cole) > > 15. Re: Alex serial #'s (Alan Cole) > > 16. Re: Alex serial #'s ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > > > > -- > > > > message: 1 > > date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) > > from: Steve Selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > subject: RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn > > > > It's fascinating to watch the discussions on whether a > > different horn makes a large difference in one's > > playing. On the one hand are professionals like Hans > > with plenty of skill and time that can adapt to > > virtually any horn in a short amount of time. On the > > other are many of us amateurs hoping that investing in > > a new horn will compensate for a lack of available > > time to practice, along with (perhaps) less natural > > ability. Along with the "tinkerers", both ameteur and > > professional that are constantly trying new horns, > > mouthpieces, leadpipes, bells, garlands, wraps, etc. > > > > I've seen many of the same arguments in sports. > > Athletes that have a lot of raw talent sometimes > > ignore technique and training, re
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Clean teeth, clean valves
Senseless practice of five hours is useless, while two to three hours practising with sense is absolutely enough. But practise the things you should do better, not things you can do very well already. Practise any piece of music MUSICALLY, even long tones & scales or interval exercises. Make yourself independent from extensive warm ups. Live the music !!! Do not forget to get a musical background (history, social, composer biographies, opera stories, etc.) - can be acquired during the rests between the practise sessions. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kerri c davies Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 2:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Clean teeth, clean valves Hey, everyone, I'd say I agree with Hans. I have another question for all of you professional players and graduate students. Howw many hours of actual time with the horn at your face in the practice room not rehearsals is ideal for a college freshman music major with professional playing aspriations? I can only get about four to five hours, the hours I' not at work or in class. Will this be sufficient? I hear about those who get six hours plus of individual practice time, and I don't see how it is possible for the full time student without expiriencing sleep deficiencies. -Brittany ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Spill the cleaning agent with a lot of water, but dont ask me how many liters. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herbert Foster Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 11:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 30
A POX ON WHO? - Original Message - From: "jerry j" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 10:18 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 30 > > from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > subject: Re: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s > > > > Alexander started up production again in 1947. I found this out when > > trying > > to get a manufacture date for my Alex 103. I had to give a physical > > description > > of the horn to them and they came up with 1947 to 1950 production > > time. Shape > > of the thumb change transfer bar and the fact that the logo was > > engraved on > > the bell not the medallion. > > Very interesting! I have a Paxman (diploma model) copy of the Alex 103 > that I have heard was built in the early '50's because real Alex's were > not available. Dates are sufficiently vague that my Paxelander may have > been built before 1950. > > I am very interested in any more info anybody has about this Paxelander. > > Best, > Jerry Jensen > > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jdelarosa%40ameritech.net ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 30
from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: Re: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s Alexander started up production again in 1947. I found this out when trying to get a manufacture date for my Alex 103. I had to give a physical description of the horn to them and they came up with 1947 to 1950 production time. Shape of the thumb change transfer bar and the fact that the logo was engraved on the bell not the medallion. Very interesting! I have a Paxman (diploma model) copy of the Alex 103 that I have heard was built in the early '50's because real Alex's were not available. Dates are sufficiently vague that my Paxelander may have been built before 1950. I am very interested in any more info anybody has about this Paxelander. Best, Jerry Jensen ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: Long and NHR Re: [Hornlist] New 6D old 6D
Well that was pretty stupid (well Doc, we never really accused you of being the sharpest knife in the drawer now did we?) I just slap forgot to copy in the very thing I was trying to send, did you ever get so interested in what you're saying that you just couldn't listen to anybody else? (Of course we have Doc, we're a bunch of musicians here, we do that all the time!) Anyway, here's what I meant to send, if somebody wants to send it to the other list, feel free, I'll probably just hose (Old Navy term for mess up) it up again! Robby. First things first: If you're a white guy, you'll need a stupid hat, >the more stupid the better and preferably a beret. > > Sunglasses are optional, but all the really, really good players wear >them, especially indoors. > > You'll also need some "gig shirts"-Hawaiians are good, but in a pinch >anything with a loud floral pattern is acceptable, as are T-shirts from >various jazz clubs and festivals. The good thing about the latter is that >you can get them mail order so you don't have to go to all the trouble of >actually seeing and hearing live music. And sandals are an absolute must, >even in winter. > > Once you've assembled the proper attire you can begin practicing. One >of the most important things about playing is being able to convey emotion >to the audience. This you do through various facial expressions. > > The two emotions you'll need to convey are (1) rapture / ecstasy and >(2) soul wrenching pain and sadness (i.e., the blues). You may find it >useful in the beginning to borrow a page from the method acting school. So, for example, to convey rapture, try thinking of something nice-like puppy >dogs, or spending the night with Uma Thurman while Phil Barone feeds you >Armour hot dogs with truffle sauce. > > To convey the "blues" try thinking of something really appalling--like >ulcerative colitis or Alec Baldwin. > > You should practice your facial expressions in front of a mirror at >least two hours per day. You may feel a tad stupid at first, but you'll >never get the chicks if you don't jump around on stage like a monkey, with >your face screwed up like there's a rabid wolverine devouring your >pancreas. And, bottom line, getting chicks is really what music's all >about. > > Next, you'll need the correct ligature. > > Some people think that the ligature is just a stupid old piece of >metal that holds the reed on the mouthpiece. Well, those people are idiots. >Besides your beret, the ligature is the single most important piece of >musical equipment you will ever buy. > > Mine, for example, is 40% platinum and 60% titanium; one screw is >rubidium and the other plutonium. It makes me sound exactly like Booker >Ervin would if Booker Ervin wasn't (1) dead and/or (2) living on Mars. > > You may have to spend years and years and thousands of dollars finding >the proper ligature, but in the end it definitely will be worth it. > > Now reeds. Optimally, you'll want to move to Cuba, grow and cure your >own cane, and carve your own reeds by hand. If you're just a "weekend >warrior" however, you can get by with store-bought. > > First, buy ten boxes of reeds -100 in all. Next, open all the boxes >and throw away 60 reeds. > > Those were unplayable. Take the remaining reeds and soak them in a >mixture of 27.8% rubbing alcohol and 72.2% pituitary gland extract for a >period of 17 weeks. > > Throw away 20 more reeds. Those were stuffy. > > Take the remaining 20 reeds and sand each one for exactly 13 seconds >with #1200 grade 3M sandpaper. > > Throw away 14 reeds. Those squeaked. > > Take the remaining 6 reeds and soak them for another 17 weeks, this >time however in a mixture of 27.8% pituitary gland extract and 72.2% >rubbing alcohol. > > Sun dry the 6 remaining reeds for 3 weeks, optimally at an equatorial >latitude, and throw away 3 more just on general principles. > > You now have 3 reeds that will last you several months if you play >each one only 20 minutes a day in strict rotation. > > Now, you say you just bought a horn. Although you didn't say what kind >it is I'd sell it immediately and get a different one. > > The best one to get would be a Selmer Mark VI made at 4:27 PM on June >14, 1963, serial number 635543. If you can't get that one though, >generally speaking the older and more expensive the better. > > The following brands are good: Selmer Paris Mark VI. The following >brands suck: any other Selmer, Yamaha, Conn, Beuscher, Yanigasawa, >Cannonball, LA, Jupiter, Elkhart, King, Martin, Keilworth, Boosey and >Hawkes, Couf, Silvertone, and Holton. On no >account should you play the horn before you buy it: go strictly on >reputation and price. > > You will also need some accoutrements: a flight case capable of >withstanding atmospheric pressure of dP = - Dg dz where D >and g are, respectively, the density of air and the acceleration due to >gravity at the altitude of the air layer and dz is a horizontal layer of >
Long and NHR Re: [Hornlist] New 6D old 6D
Hi all, yup ol' redneck here, I thought some of you equipment guys and sax haters would enjoy this, it was sent to me by the guy who was chairman of the music department where I went to school and a sax player. Later Robby Robinson Now section player, River City Concert Band, Memphis TN (Pretty much Redneck Country I'd say) Formerly, LA (Lower Alabama) Redneck Riviera Fourth Horn, Northwest Florida Symphony Second Horn, Pensacola Civic Band Horn, First City Five Woodwind Quintet ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Clean teeth, clean valves
Hey, everyone, I'd say I agree with Hans. My Conn 6D's valves are leaky because it is a twenty-plus year old school instrument and has been used and abused in the past. In its entire life, I've probably given it the most attention, and before me it sat in its case for at least ten years. But not only is it good for your horn, but great for your teeth!! The last time I went to the dentist, he complained because there was nothing for him to clean off... I was plaque and cavity free! Besides, when my mouth feels clean, I feel my instrument responds better. There is no scientific or logical explanation I can think of, that's just what I feel. Maybe my horn is "happier". (Okay Cabbage, have at it, I asked for it, I can feel it coming). I have another question for all of you professional players and graduate students. Howw many hours of actual time with the horn at your face in the practice room not rehearsals is ideal for a college freshman music major with professional playing aspriations? I can only get about four to five hours, the hours I' not at work or in class. Will this be sufficient? I hear about those who get six hours plus of individual practice time, and I don't see how it is possible for the full time student without expiriencing sleep deficiencies. -Brittany ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
Alexander started up production again in 1947. I found this out when trying to get a manufacture date for my Alex 103. I had to give a physical description of the horn to them and they came up with 1947 to 1950 production time. Shape of the thumb change transfer bar and the fact that the logo was engraved on the bell not the medallion. John Wilber ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Brush, yes, but not with toothpaste. Most toothpaste has polishing agent (grit), and you don't want THAT in your valves. Herb Foster --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hans Writes: No wonder, if players feed themselves before playing, > during the intermissions WITHOUT cleaning their mouth & teeth properly > BEFORE bringing up the horn to the lips again !!! Pack a tooth cleaning > pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It > is more important than oiling the horn every week. > > I use a horn made 1978. The valves are tight as they were on the first > day: absolutely tight but super fast & noiseless. And the slides are > still blank. And the horn is clean inside even I spill it just every two > months. > > > Hans,,, Wrong Wrong Wrong.. > Perhaps that worked for you, but I would never tell anyone that brushing > their teeth before playing will prevent valve wear more than oiling. > Wrong Wrong Wrong!!! (and I'm even trying to be subtle here) > The act of oiling creates a thin film on the bore of the instrument - so > all those food particles, and acids etc can't attach to the brass and > cause dezincification - and eventually valve wear. > Hans, by the way, dezinicification/redrot - is NOT the redness that > occurs due to tarnishing,,, it starts on the INSIDE of the horn. During > our last go around on this subject you described something that was NOT > dezincification > > So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops > every other day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card > handy) > > Signed: > > Pope Ken Pope Alexander > > > > "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" > > > Dealer of Kuhn and Durk Horns > Pope Instrument Repair > 80 Wenham Street > Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 > 617-522-0532 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:00 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 > > Send Horn mailing list submissions to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." > > > Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include > the entire digest in your reply. > > Today's Topics: > >1. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Steve Selby) >2. KEN THE POPE? (jdelarosa) >3. Pope Pope (Ralph Mazza) >4. Re: Horn testing (kerri c davies) >5. Getting a job at Holton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) >6. Re: Re: Horn testing (Russ Smiley) >7. New 6D old 6D (Leonard & Peggy Brown) >8. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Hans Pizka) >9. RE: Re: Horn testing (Hans Pizka) > 10. Alex serial #'s (Jeremy Ristow) > 11. Re: Alex serial #'s (Wilbert Kimple) > 12. RE: Alex serial #'s (Jonathan West) > 13. RE: Alex serial #'s (Hans Pizka) > 14. Re: New 6D old 6D (Alan Cole) > 15. Re: Alex serial #'s (Alan Cole) > 16. Re: Alex serial #'s ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > > > -- > > message: 1 > date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) > from: Steve Selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn > > It's fascinating to watch the discussions on whether a > different horn makes a large difference in one's > playing. On the one hand are professionals like Hans > with plenty of skill and time that can adapt to > virtually any horn in a short amount of time. On the > other are many of us amateurs hoping that investing in > a new horn will compensate for a lack of available > time to practice, along with (perhaps) less natural > ability. Along with the "tinkerers", both ameteur and > professional that are constantly trying new horns, > mouthpieces, leadpipes, bells, garlands, wraps, etc. > > I've seen many of the same arguments in sports. > Athletes that have a lot of raw talent sometimes > ignore technique and training, relying on their > physical gifts and telling others to "just do it". > Less gifted athletes hope that focus on technique and > relentless training can compensate for their lack of > ability. Of course, the best athletes combine > abundant talent with flawless technique and training. > Same with horn. > > > > = > Steve Selby > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > -- > > message: 2 > date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:55:20 -0500 > from: "jdelarosa"
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn testing
Hans, Wendell Rider (http://www.wendellworld.com/html/FingeringChart.pdf) has an excellent article at his site from his book "Real World Horn Playing" about the fingering. He writes of the A above the staff: "This is another note that varies from horn to horn. T0, T12, and T3 are all good choices, depending on the horn and the situation". Rider says T0 and T12 are the "chosen" fingering (his word). In his book "The Art of French Horn Playing", Farkas has fingering advice and a chart on pages 14 and 15. For the high A, Farkas says T1-2 or T3 are 'standard' and T0 is the 'alternate'. Brittany's problem was difficulty getting the A but not the B-flat above it. I suggested she try alternate fingerings to determine if it was less difficult to hit since her 6D may not be an ideal instrument. I also recommended she check the intonation of the alternates, because they may be in tune. I said she'd be 'lucky' (fortunate) if both the intonation was there as well as the ease. I stand by my 2¢ reply. Russ - Original Message - From: "Hans Pizka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'The Horn List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:33 AM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Re: Horn testing Wrong, Russ. "a2" with 3rd or open on Bb-horn is flat in principle, just enough. Adjust your 1st & 2nd slide very well, care that it does not shift by accident during a performance, and be in heaven with a superb "a2". The high "c3" - try it with 2nd & 3rd on the F-side (YES). The "b2-natural" must work on the Bb-horn all the time, IF the slide is pulled correctly. > My Conn 6D's A above the staff is particularily difficult, while the Bb above that is > easier to hit. That is what leads me to this theory. > So, what do all of you think? > Thank you for all of your replies, > Brittany ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
"Pope Ken Pope Alexander" writes: >>> So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops every other >>> day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card handy)>>> Ken, Are you recommending that we continue brushing our teeth because it's good for our teeth and gums, or because it's good for the horn (or both)? --Matt An amateur even more rank than Alan Cole ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Horn Testing and Oiling - the Pope
Hans Writes: No wonder, if players feed themselves before playing, during the intermissions WITHOUT cleaning their mouth & teeth properly BEFORE bringing up the horn to the lips again !!! Pack a tooth cleaning pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It is more important than oiling the horn every week. I use a horn made 1978. The valves are tight as they were on the first day: absolutely tight but super fast & noiseless. And the slides are still blank. And the horn is clean inside even I spill it just every two months. Hans,,, Wrong Wrong Wrong.. Perhaps that worked for you, but I would never tell anyone that brushing their teeth before playing will prevent valve wear more than oiling. Wrong Wrong Wrong!!! (and I'm even trying to be subtle here) The act of oiling creates a thin film on the bore of the instrument - so all those food particles, and acids etc can't attach to the brass and cause dezincification - and eventually valve wear. Hans, by the way, dezinicification/redrot - is NOT the redness that occurs due to tarnishing,,, it starts on the INSIDE of the horn. During our last go around on this subject you described something that was NOT dezincification So, YES, brush, but more importantly OIL the horn with a few drops every other day or so in the leadpipe (or keep my repair card handy) Signed: Pope Ken Pope Alexander "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" Dealer of Kuhn and Durk Horns Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Horn Digest, Vol 7, Issue 29 Send Horn mailing list submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT include the entire digest in your reply. Today's Topics: 1. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Steve Selby) 2. KEN THE POPE? (jdelarosa) 3. Pope Pope (Ralph Mazza) 4. Re: Horn testing (kerri c davies) 5. Getting a job at Holton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 6. Re: Re: Horn testing (Russ Smiley) 7. New 6D old 6D (Leonard & Peggy Brown) 8. RE: Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn (Hans Pizka) 9. RE: Re: Horn testing (Hans Pizka) 10. Alex serial #'s (Jeremy Ristow) 11. Re: Alex serial #'s (Wilbert Kimple) 12. RE: Alex serial #'s (Jonathan West) 13. RE: Alex serial #'s (Hans Pizka) 14. Re: New 6D old 6D (Alan Cole) 15. Re: Alex serial #'s (Alan Cole) 16. Re: Alex serial #'s ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- message: 1 date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:55:45 -0700 (PDT) from: Steve Selby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn It's fascinating to watch the discussions on whether a different horn makes a large difference in one's playing. On the one hand are professionals like Hans with plenty of skill and time that can adapt to virtually any horn in a short amount of time. On the other are many of us amateurs hoping that investing in a new horn will compensate for a lack of available time to practice, along with (perhaps) less natural ability. Along with the "tinkerers", both ameteur and professional that are constantly trying new horns, mouthpieces, leadpipes, bells, garlands, wraps, etc. I've seen many of the same arguments in sports. Athletes that have a lot of raw talent sometimes ignore technique and training, relying on their physical gifts and telling others to "just do it". Less gifted athletes hope that focus on technique and relentless training can compensate for their lack of ability. Of course, the best athletes combine abundant talent with flawless technique and training. Same with horn. = Steve Selby [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com -- message: 2 date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:55:20 -0500 from: "jdelarosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: [Hornlist] KEN THE POPE? Jay: Why not go full circle and name him Pope Alexander? Julio de la Rosa - Original Message - From: "Jay Kosta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "The Horn List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:38 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: WES-factory horn testing - NHR > Baucom, Fred writes: > > > > > Another question: if Ken somehow becomes the next Pope, w
SV: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
My Alexander Model 90 also has a number (5 digits) stamped on the casing of the 2nd valve. Sven Tagerud -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: Jeremy Ristow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Skickat: sö 2003-07-27 15:00 Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Kopia: Ämne: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s Where would the serial number be located on an Alexander? Thanks. Jeremy _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sven.tagerud%40hik.se * NOTE: An attachment named winmail.dat was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type.Contact the system administrator for more information.--_=_NextPart_001_01C3546C.8C4E6F1C-- ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
In a message dated 7/27/2003 7:36:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > The previous owner told me it was > fifty or sixty years old. > > Wilbert in SC > Hello Wilbert, If that is my 107 I said I thought it was from the 60's or 70's ... not 60 years old. Regards,Jerry ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
I don't know about late-model Alexes, but my 1958 model has no serial number. The Lawson folks stamped an identifying number into my Alexander 103 for me when they did the restoration & modifications on it several years back. -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~~~ Where would the serial number be located on an Alexander? Thanks. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] New 6D old 6D
The Conn "Artist" 6D only got demoted to intermediate "student" or "step-up" status when the Conn people brought out their higher priced 8D & 28D "Connstellation" models, right? That is, changing the marketing did not necessarily change the horn. I'm pretty sure the Conn folks did NOT say to themselves, "OK, now that we're bringing out our 8D & 28D, we're going to make sure all our 6Ds coming off the line from now on are lousy." Not only that, didn't Willie Ruff do all his playing on a Conn 6D? (It was either a 6D or a look-alike Olds, no?) -- Alan Cole, rank amateur McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA. ~ Is there really any difference between the 6D of 30 years ago and today's? Back then it was considered a pro horn. Has the instrument changed or just the label? (before you tell me that a 6D wasn't a pro horn 30 years ago I had at least 4 friends gain and hold jobs in symphonies with them) ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
Fifty or sixty years old Alex 107, my goodness, this would be a pre 1953 or pre-1943 horn (mid in the war). As far as I know, Alex did start the production much later, but I will give them a call tomorrow. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wilbert Kimple Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 3:17 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s --- Jeremy Ristow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where would the serial number be located on an > Alexander? Thanks. > Alexander followed the tradition of most German makers and did not put serial numbers on their horns for many years. I had a serial number on my Alexander 200, which the Alexander company finally told me was made 1991. If it's an older Alex, there probably isn't a number. My Alex 107, now my main horn, does not have a number. The previous owner told me it was fifty or sixty years old. Wilbert in SC ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans.pizka%40t-online.de ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
> Where would the serial number be located on an Alexander? Thanks. My 103 has a 4-digit serial number stamped on the casing of the 2nd valve. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
--- Jeremy Ristow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where would the serial number be located on an > Alexander? Thanks. > Alexander followed the tradition of most German makers and did not put serial numbers on their horns for many years. I had a serial number on my Alexander 200, which the Alexander company finally told me was made 1991. If it's an older Alex, there probably isn't a number. My Alex 107, now my main horn, does not have a number. The previous owner told me it was fifty or sixty years old. Wilbert in SC ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Alex serial #'s
Where would the serial number be located on an Alexander? Thanks. Jeremy _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: Horn testing
Wrong, Russ. "a2" with 3rd or open on Bb-horn is flat in principle, just enough. Adjust your 1st & 2nd slide very well, care that it does not shift by accident during a performance, and be in heaven with a superb "a2". The high "c3" - try it with 2nd & 3rd on the F-side (YES). The "b2-natural" must work on the Bb-horn all the time, IF the slide is pulled correctly. Question about LEAKING valves. Why do the valves leak ? After very few years ? If you "over" oil them constantly to prevent wear ??? No wonder, if players feed themselves before playing, during the intermissions WITHOUT cleaning their mouth & teeth properly BEFORE bringing up the horn to the lips again !!! Pack a tooth cleaning pack into your horn case. This will prevent valve wear in most cases. It is more important than oiling the horn every week. I use a horn made 1978. The valves are tight as they were on the first day: absolutely tight but super fast & noiseless. And the slides are still blank. And the horn is clean inside even I spill it just every two months. But I have seen horns in the hands of solo players of top five orchestras. Full of oil AROUND the valve section, even "spider webs" between the tubes (it looked like but was just an agglomerate of dust particles glued together by the excess oil). WORLD TOP PLAYERS. Nothing to say more. Just one word: DISCIPLINE. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Russ Smiley Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2003 1:29 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: Horn testing My 2¢: It has been my experience that leaking valves led more to inefficiency, less precise attacks, and (possibly) flatter pitches. I have two very similar horns, one with valves less tight than the other, at it has the better high C. My suspicion (others who know better, please comment) is that tapers and their combinations (mouthpiece, lead pipe, and bell) have more to do with what high notes are 'easy'. For the A, try 'alternate' fingerings (open or 3rd), and see if you can make it speak easier. Also, when your G and B flat are tuned, see which of the fingering for As is best in tune, too. You're in luck if the alternate is both easier and in tune. Russ Smiley Marlborough, CT - Original Message - From: "kerri c davies" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 7:22 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Horn testing > Mark L., Wes and List: > > To suggest that Wes did not do well as a performer in the music business > is NOT at all what the intention of my post was. I apologize, Wes, I > didn't mean for it to sound that way, I know you're a fabulous horn > player; please don't take it that way! I hope I have not insulted you. > > And I would love to hear your two cents on my question, if you could > answer it. Like I have posted a few months ago I am getting a new 8DRS > and am still anxiously awaiting its arrival. By the way, anyone else who > is buying a Conn, are you still waiting for your dealers to get new > shipments in from the Conn horn factory? Mine was supposed to have beem > sent from the factory on July 15, but it still hasn't made it yet. I am a > litle worried that the big delay means a drop in consistancy or quality, > but I have heard otherwise from fellow Conn players, so I am sticking for > now with my 8DRS. I'm just curious now about how the factories go about > producing all these horns with relative consistancy, hoping that the two > that are arriving in the shop will be of decent quality, and I won't have > to make them order a new one, wait six more months, etc. They find me > annoying as it is already, I am sure. > > As for my embouchure and mouthpiece pressure issues, I have reduced my > playing hours from five to four a day, becuase five is doing more harm > than good. I think I should master enduring four hours first before I > dive into five, do all of you agree? I've been playing five hours per day > for a month and it isn't improving my playing, so I think it must be too > much. Is this a safe assumption? I hope so, hopefully my playing will go > back to the way it was before I obsessed over it and tried to change it. > > I hav another question. If the upper register is really hard to play o a > horn, is it possible that the valves are leaky? I am thibking that this > is contributing to my problem, but I don't know for sure. My Conn 6D's A > above the staff is particularily difficult, while the Bb above that is > easier to hit. That is what leads me to this theory. > So, what do all of you think? > Thank you for all of your replies, > Brittany > ___ > post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rsmiley%40cttel.net > ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn
RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn
O.K., Steve, yes, the professionals have more skill, but more time to adapt to a new instrument ?? I doubt that very much. Most of us just pick the horn or grab the horn which is available, explore it with two scales up & down, adjust the slides (a common source of bad speaking notes, as long as the valves are activated - I do not say "depressed" so not to give Cabbage a chance to make a fool out of myself - example: "a" above space - if the slides are not pulled the right length, the "a" will remain bad off course) and PLAY, just PLAY THAT HORN. That´s it. And the main problem of the amateur is the following: They think they can do things equally or even better than the professionals (admitted: might happen in very rare cases, but never in leading horn position), and THEY DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT PROFESSIONALS PREACH ! They know everything much better from their scientific approach, but it does not work. Should I call them pharisaic horn players Sorry, there is no help for many of those players. Some of them played for me in many lessons, but had big mouth before about what they had played with their community orchestra or pick-up orchestra or just "READING ORCHESTRA" (Mahler 5, Beethoven 9, Beethoven 3, Heldenleben, Till, Brahms, Mahler 1, etc.). But, my goodness, all phantasy, if they played for me, three out of two notes were mistakes, not only clams, but out of tune, clumsy pronounced, broken legatos, etc. I call you amateurs, players as conductors (professional, semi professionals & amateurs), back to order: play less demanding pieces, but BETTER. Hans Pizka, 45 years on first chair in top orchestras (just three orch. But played with many, many orchestras called to replace the first horn because of ill leave), honorary member of the HIS, etc.etc. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Selby Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 6:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Break in that horn (was error) and Ebay Horn It's fascinating to watch the discussions on whether a different horn makes a large difference in one's playing. On the one hand are professionals like Hans with plenty of skill and time that can adapt to virtually any horn in a short amount of time. On the other are many of us amateurs hoping that investing in a new horn will compensate for a lack of available time to practice, along with (perhaps) less natural ability. ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
