Re: [Hornlist] Giant horn mute
Looks great so far, but there are a few things I find not to be so helpful: 1. They forgot the corks. 2. It doesn't appear to be tunable. 3. I'll bet Thompson Edition doesn't make a case to fit it. JEN P.S. Do they make a stop mute for larger horns, too? Dan McCartney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those of you with gigantic horns, check out the mute at: http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=h_thunderstar_kids_02.jpgcap=Among+displays+at+this+month%92s+X+Prize+Cup+is+the+prototype+Thunderstar+passenger-carrying+capsule+designed+by+Starchaser+Industries%2C+Ltd.+Image+Credit%3A+Starchaser+Industries%2C+Ltd . -- Dan McCartney Prof. of New Testament Westminster Theological Seminary, Philadelphia ___ - All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
Now to take the subject down a few common denominator levels, to the ranks of the uneducated and definitely unpaid-- thoughts on conductors of adult amateur groups. There is much that could be discussed here among those who chose to think about it at least a little. Amateurs play in ensembles for a variety of reasons, for differing goals. Most want to improve; most want the rehearsals and concerts to be enjoyable. I think these are among the most common and most important goals of amateurs. I am tired of looking around at faces in groups and seeing glum and frustrated expressions. The conductor is the one best positioned to change this undesirable condition. To cut this short-- conductors need to do the following. 1) Set clear expectations for performance. Hand out the music ahead of time and tell musicians to learn their parts in their own practice time. Give musicians a heads up of which pieces will be worked on at the next rehearsal-- announce at the previous rehearsal or send out a group e-mail. 2) Know the score yourself; know your interpretation. Nothing is as frustrating to the group as being directed by a conductor who is lost or is studying the score during rehearsal. 3) Hold your instructive comments until a substantial portion of the piece has been played-- better, wait until the movement is finished. Then go over your long list of comments with everyone. My biggest gripe is aimed at conductors who stop every time they have some comment to make-- this may be acceptable for the pro ranks, but it is totally unacceptable for amateur groups. Remember that amateurs are there to enjoy the music, not to be micromanaged by a neurotic conductor-- and there are many of these out there. 4) The conductor at rehearsal should bring the ensemble together to play as a unity, to bring intensity to the music beyond the mere mechanics. The key awareness issue for clear-headed ensemble amateurs is -- are we having fun? Regards, Larry __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
As I conduct an amateur group by myself since many years (even a horn ensemble) I may add a few words here: These preconditions of handing out the music in advance etc. is just normal we will not talk about these self-evident things. The first thing most important for any conductor is it, to make the players enthusiastic by giving them the right impetus. Some players might be excellent performers in their civil profession, so they are not used to be corrected. If I stop during the rehearsal to improve things, I do not do it just to point at a certain player or to blame that player. I just want things work better. So we work pieces through step by step. Digest it while we relax, but concentrate again play it through again, to correct another spot after that. Folks, many of you might not have been exposed to a regular professional orchestra life. We do not just play through the pieces to perform the big picture. We work hard even in the microcosm, understood ? The microcosm here are the several phrases or parts of a movement, which have to be worked out. And this requires concentrated work, it also requires critic by the person in front of us. This critic has to be taken positively. It is not enough, that amateur groups like to enjoy making music. That is by far not enough. Surely, one must not expect they play as good as the philharmonic, but they must play reasonably. To achieve that, the conductor (if he or she is good just the first among equals !!) has to eliminate the weak spots. He can do that only, if he notice them if he corrects them on the spot. This means stopping here, stopping there. So he will get the piece together. Well a first run through regardless mistakes, insulted, killed or lost members should be done at the first rehearsal, so the conductor knows where to work. After all is worked out in a movement, a run through will follow, initiating more work the next rehearsal some homework. What most of the amateurs desire (just enjoying music making), does not work in the way they want it. All will end in chaos frustration. If the conductor starts working really, frustration will come up also, but will disappear give way to enjoyment as soon as the things get in order. Rehearsing does not mean get through the piece, play it through again again with the same mistakes over over. This applies to most students also. Concentrate your effort to those things you cannot do well, things needing improvement. Watch how you will enjoy then. Very differently. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Jellison Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:57 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles Now to take the subject down a few common denominator levels, to the ranks of the uneducated and definitely unpaid-- thoughts on conductors of adult amateur groups. There is much that could be discussed here among those who chose to think about it at least a little. Amateurs play in ensembles for a variety of reasons, for differing goals. Most want to improve; most want the rehearsals and concerts to be enjoyable. I think these are among the most common and most important goals of amateurs. I am tired of looking around at faces in groups and seeing glum and frustrated expressions. The conductor is the one best positioned to change this undesirable condition. To cut this short-- conductors need to do the following. 1) Set clear expectations for performance. Hand out the music ahead of time and tell musicians to learn their parts in their own practice time. Give musicians a heads up of which pieces will be worked on at the next rehearsal-- announce at the previous rehearsal or send out a group e-mail. 2) Know the score yourself; know your interpretation. Nothing is as frustrating to the group as being directed by a conductor who is lost or is studying the score during rehearsal. 3) Hold your instructive comments until a substantial portion of the piece has been played-- better, wait until the movement is finished. Then go over your long list of comments with everyone. My biggest gripe is aimed at conductors who stop every time they have some comment to make-- this may be acceptable for the pro ranks, but it is totally unacceptable for amateur groups. Remember that amateurs are there to enjoy the music, not to be micromanaged by a neurotic conductor-- and there are many of these out there. 4) The conductor at rehearsal should bring the ensemble together to play as a unity, to bring intensity to the music beyond the mere mechanics. The key awareness issue for clear-headed ensemble amateurs is -- are we having fun? Regards, Larry __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
RE: [Hornlist] RE ; Conductors, difference between Old School and New School
The fault of listening to recordings is not a fault of student conductors. It seems to be a relatively new method of learning, when I started the horn (in the dream time - that long ago) it was pretty much not mentioned occasionally on a new piece someone might buy a recording, but on the standards, Mozart, Strauss, etc. teachers and students would work with what was on the printed page. Fast forward a few years. At a rehearsal of the local horn club we were playing a modern piece that had been recorded by the LA Horn Club. We read through it then one of our members recounted a story of being at a horn clinic at a university where a horn group was reading the same piece. It turns out the composer was walking down the hall. He stuck his head in the door when they finished and complemented them on playing it as he had written it. He went on to say that the LA Horn Club did it with their own interpretation that didn't match what he had written. Saying further that since the recording he hardly every heard it played in any other manner than that of the recording. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of matthew scheffelman Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 1:27 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] RE ;Conductors, difference between Old School and New School Hans, Maybe you have answered one crucial question.What is the difference between the old greats and the newersuper stars? In one of your most recent posts you mentioned LISTENING. Listening is One of the qualities lacking both in modern conductors and modern quasi Musicians. Even at the highest levels today, listening has only become used for the answer to I am in tune, I am playing the right rhythm, therefor I am right. The contrary to this is flexibility, shaping of the sound etc. Many modern conductors learn their scores by FOLLOWING along with a recording. Even great ones use this technique. While the opportunity to conduct may be farther a few between, many conductors are learning MANY bad habits with this method. I believe the New School of conductors is quite great in many areas and with many people. For starters, it is a different way of going about rehearsal because of the extreme performance technique of the modern orchestral musician. There are not many reasons to be old school and yell rant and rave at the orchestra as there are MUCH fewer mistakes in execution by the top level orchestras. The relationship between the orchestra and the music director has changed also. There are more collaborations about programs between a musicians committee and the music director so programs and taste can be shown to come from within, rather the the singular vision of the conductor. This sharing and evolution is felt by the public through the performances which have personal meaning for the collective orchestra. Contrasting this with a old school conductor who chooses programs within his/her comfort zone, and missing what the collective orchestra might connect with more readily. Matthew Scheffelman horn __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors etc
Two observations on what Steve said, as to not always the best getting the job, as it is in all industries/pursuits. A novel of the later part of the last Century, On Wings of Eagles follows the two careers of officers in the US Army. One is the perfect careerist seeking out the right job and getting to know the right people just to get ahead. The other is the stereotypic professional the man who does the right thing for the right reason, not for personal gain. The contrast in the two men reflected a lot of what goes on it large organizations, so much so that the head of the Army put the book on a required reading list. The other issue, on this side of the Atlantic at least, is the fact that conductors have to be able not only to be musicians, but must also be able to play up to the people in a community with the big purses to keep funding coming into the organization. Not only must he/she know how to get music from musicians but also work with the Board of Directors to get money out of donors to keep the orchestra solvent. I'm not sure if that is an issue in Europe. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Freides Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:28 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Conductors etc Hans Pizka wrote: I try it again to incend a fire(works) about conductors their means of interpretation, as the first attempt resulted in zero effect but one single reply. Are you to cautious to talk about conductors ? Because a few lure around in several lists ? What to fear ? Is it impossible to talk the truth ? Even about music ? Poor world intimidated by a handful of people, seems not funny but rather pervers. Hans, I did not respond because I think you stated the case very well. A good conductor must posses everything you suggest and, again as you suggest, many lack that all-important ability to inspire, to embue a performance with the kind of life that will bring the best out of the players and move an audience. I will also add that I have seen conductors who err in the other direction, as it were - they attempt to emote but lack musicianship, lack an understanding of the music they are conducting, or both, and their efforts seem superficial and insubstantial as a result. Unfortunately, in conducting more than in most other areas of musical endeavor, talent, hard work, and good results do not always lead to success. At least it seems this way to me - in a blind audition behind a curtain, the best player should prevail, but conductors are hired by much less direct processes. Because I went through music school as a conductor, I have had the opportunity to watch the careers of several of my colleagues, all of whom shall remain nameless here; suffice it to say that I have seen at least one very talented, hard-working individual achieve a career but only relatively minor success, while another who is a charlatan by measure of almost everyone who has either known him or played under him has risen to the top ranks of the profession, achieving his success, so far as I have been able to determine, by other means. Such is the way life works sometimes, I'm sad to say. Disclaimer, lest someone think my rant is some sort of sour grapes - I went through school as a choral conducting major with no aspirations of a career as a conductor. I am a theory and ear-training specialist and taught those subjects at the college level even before my doctorate was completed. Going through college as a conducting major was much more interesting than doing it as a theory major - I got to conduct a recital for my doctoral degree instead of having to write a thesis - how good is _that_? :) I have done one conducting engagement per year for the last several decades, a small professional choir hired for the Jewish High Holy Days (just finished) at a large congregation in suburban Philadelphia. I just finished my 27th year as conductor and every year feel completely humbled by the task of doing everything within my power at rehearsals and performances to make the music the most inspirational and moving it can be. I don't ever feel I've gotten it right but I find the process of trying to improve my own ability to, in turn, improve the performances a noble pursuit and one I look forward to each year. -S- What makes a good conductor Seems an interesting question. Well, most conductors have a very limited means of expresions or let us better say tools. They know slow-fast, loud-soft, hard-soft, short-long. But this could be done by a programmed machine also. Just think about an electric programmable jumping jack. I might names this way of conducting the bi-dimensional-music-commanding. But there is more, like bringing the tempos into a certain mathematical relation (plain numbers, no fractions), work out the phrases set by the composer, balance the dynamics within the sections between the different
RE: [Hornlist] RE ; Conductors, difference between Old School and New School
He went on to say that the LA Horn Club did it with their own interpretation that didn't match what he had written. Saying further that since the recording he hardly every heard it played in any other manner than that of the recording. You don't need recordings for that sort of thing to happen. I believe that the fashion in British orchestras for very many years was to play the first 4 notes of Beethoven 5 *way* below the written tempo. It is still done by some conductors. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
The opposite side of Han's coin is the conductor of amateur groups that is too willing to pass over something that doesn't sound right. I consider it a worst sin for a conductor of an amateur group to say something doesn't sound right -fix it rather than say nothing at all. Picking up on Hans comment about those who have achieved a modicum of success in their civil profession, the smart ones leave that outside the rehearsal hall. When we pick up our horns, we are musicians and part of a group interested in making music. Going back to my first comment. A conductor who tells you something's wrong but offers no further comment is not being honest with the group. The conductor should at least say, the chord doesn't sound right. Better yet, spend some time working on that chord. Bleh -muddle comments above. On to other things hope you all can sort through it. Better yet just delete it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hans Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 4:17 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles As I conduct an amateur group by myself since many years (even a horn ensemble) I may add a few words here: These preconditions of handing out the music in advance etc. is just normal we will not talk about these self-evident things. The first thing most important for any conductor is it, to make the players enthusiastic by giving them the right impetus. Some players might be excellent performers in their civil profession, so they are not used to be corrected. If I stop during the rehearsal to improve things, I do not do it just to point at a certain player or to blame that player. I just want things work better. So we work pieces through step by step. Digest it while we relax, but concentrate again play it through again, to correct another spot after that. Folks, many of you might not have been exposed to a regular professional orchestra life. We do not just play through the pieces to perform the big picture. We work hard even in the microcosm, understood ? The microcosm here are the several phrases or parts of a movement, which have to be worked out. And this requires concentrated work, it also requires critic by the person in front of us. This critic has to be taken positively. It is not enough, that amateur groups like to enjoy making music. That is by far not enough. Surely, one must not expect they play as good as the philharmonic, but they must play reasonably. To achieve that, the conductor (if he or she is good just the first among equals !!) has to eliminate the weak spots. He can do that only, if he notice them if he corrects them on the spot. This means stopping here, stopping there. So he will get the piece together. Well a first run through regardless mistakes, insulted, killed or lost members should be done at the first rehearsal, so the conductor knows where to work. After all is worked out in a movement, a run through will follow, initiating more work the next rehearsal some homework. What most of the amateurs desire (just enjoying music making), does not work in the way they want it. All will end in chaos frustration. If the conductor starts working really, frustration will come up also, but will disappear give way to enjoyment as soon as the things get in order. Rehearsing does not mean get through the piece, play it through again again with the same mistakes over over. This applies to most students also. Concentrate your effort to those things you cannot do well, things needing improvement. Watch how you will enjoy then. Very differently. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Jellison Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 7:57 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles Now to take the subject down a few common denominator levels, to the ranks of the uneducated and definitely unpaid-- thoughts on conductors of adult amateur groups. There is much that could be discussed here among those who chose to think about it at least a little. Amateurs play in ensembles for a variety of reasons, for differing goals. Most want to improve; most want the rehearsals and concerts to be enjoyable. I think these are among the most common and most important goals of amateurs. I am tired of looking around at faces in groups and seeing glum and frustrated expressions. The conductor is the one best positioned to change this undesirable condition. To cut this short-- conductors need to do the following. 1) Set clear expectations for performance. Hand out the music ahead of time and tell musicians to learn their parts in their own practice time. Give musicians a heads up of which pieces will be worked on at the next rehearsal-- announce at the previous rehearsal or send
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
In my view, many of the same characteristics are needed for a conductor of amateur groups as for professional, but perhaps not in such concentrated form. One key difference is that amateurs play for enjoyment, and if they stop enjoying themselves they will stop playing or go elsewhere. That means that the conductor of an amateur group has to go about his business more by encouragement. That doesn't mean avoiding criticism, but concentrating the criticism on a specific point rather than on the player in general, and where possible asking for something to be played differently without implying it was wrong before - after all there are many different approaches to music making! I have no time for amateur conductors (or amateur groups for that matter) who aren't genuinely trying to produce the very best performance they are capable of. I would much rather play with a group of lesser ability that is trying to improve than a better group that has become lazy and complacent. In other words, a professional *attitude* needs to be brought to rehearsal and performance irrespective of the quality of the players. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
I used to help out with a local amateur orchestra, the conductor of which was notorious - he used to yell and bawl at his players and more than once I saw grown men and women crying behind their stands. The concerts were terrific! Eventually, the management took him to one side and told him to mend his ways and treat his players more gently. He did and everyone was much happier. The concerts sounded like any other amatuer orchestral concert. Cheers, Lawrence ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Check out my recording of this work (and all of the other of his works for horn and piano published during his lifetime) at http://www.public.asu.edu/~jqerics/Les_Adieux.htm John + Dr. John Ericson, horn Arizona State University www.hornarticles.com message: 8 date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 16:05:25 -0400 from: Mark Syslo [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations Can anyone recommend a good recording of Strauss' Theme and Variations? Mark Syslo ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
It's all about leadership, isn't it? Some leaders can be hated yet really get the best from those he/she leads. Others can be very popular and get the best from those he/she leads. Others who scream and yell come across as martinets and others who are friendly get just mediocre performances. It's got to be more than just being nice or just being demanding. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:48 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles I used to help out with a local amateur orchestra, the conductor of which was notorious - he used to yell and bawl at his players and more than once I saw grown men and women crying behind their stands. The concerts were terrific! Eventually, the management took him to one side and told him to mend his ways and treat his players more gently. He did and everyone was much happier. The concerts sounded like any other amatuer orchestral concert. Cheers, Lawrence ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
Lawrence Yates wrote: I used to help out with a local amateur orchestra, the conductor of which was notorious - he used to yell and bawl at his players and more than once I saw grown men and women crying behind their stands. The concerts were terrific! Eventually, the management took him to one side and told him to mend his ways and treat his players more gently. He did and everyone was much happier. The concerts sounded like any other amatuer orchestral concert. Batti, batti ... There was a time when men treated their wives this way, too, and parents, their children. That sort of thing doesn't fly as well as it once used to. I, for one, will accept the lesser performance quality as a trade-off I can live with. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
Bill Gross wrote: It's all about leadership, isn't it? Some leaders can be hated yet really get the best from those he/she leads. Others can be very popular and get the best from those he/she leads. Others who scream and yell come across as martinets and others who are friendly get just mediocre performances. It's got to be more than just being nice or just being demanding. I recall taking the class in Group Dynamics in undergraduate school. The format was t group or training group. The instructor sat and did absolutely nothing, leaving us to work out things for ourselves. We all got very angry at the instructor for not doing anything but eventually a leadership structure emerged within our class, and for the last few weeks, we had a more normal class, discussing what had happened in the prior weeks and discussing types of leaders as well. I remember autocratic and democratic as being two types of leader, the former taking charge by force of will and personality, the latter facilitating consensus among the members of the group. Which is my long-winded way of saying that, in my opinion, you raised a very good point, Bill. :) -S- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:48 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles I used to help out with a local amateur orchestra, the conductor of which was notorious - he used to yell and bawl at his players and more than once I saw grown men and women crying behind their stands. The concerts were terrific! Eventually, the management took him to one side and told him to mend his ways and treat his players more gently. He did and everyone was much happier. The concerts sounded like any other amatuer orchestral concert. Cheers, Lawrence ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridays computer.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
re: [Hornlist] recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Mark, John Ericson (horn professor at Arizona State), has a recording of the Theme and Variations, as well as all of the other F. Strauss works for horn and piano. The CD is titled Les Adieux and is available from Summit Records. I personally don't have any other recordings of that piece, so there may be some I don't know about. Hope that helps, Anna Can anyone recommend a good recording of Strauss' Theme and Variations? Mark Syslo - Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE ; Conductors, difference between Old School and New School
O.k., Matthew, I dont have the same experience as you comparing old new conductors the kind of musician committees. My experience is a bit longer with most great calibers (most of them dead now ! How was the word ? Dead conductor, good conductor?? ) No, no, it is quite different than you said. Modern conductors are travelling conductors who perform their repertory over over. If they study a symphony new to them, they perform it here and there at a third fourth place many many times, but the performances dont get better by the time. Old style conductors - like Wolfgang Sawallisch - could do even things WITHOUT a long preparation. They could play a R.Strauss or Alban Berg score on the piano so to get an idea about the piece. Where has this art gone ? And they were not just stars, they were very accessible regarding their programs. But todays conductors do very hard with (forced) program changes. They rehearse even their (!) programs over over, even with the same orchestra, and the same spots in the symphony again again. What for ? As they are most insecure about their own tempos they MUST rehearse the tempo changes over over again. But I noticed, that even they give an introductory (empty) beat, the orchestra plays at its speed the fellow infront has the only survival chance following the orchestra. Some of them just follow the score while the orchestra is playing (no names here , please !), while the good old conductors just had the score there turned the pages but rarely looked into the score. Dimitri Mitropoulos had all the rehearsal numbers stored in his brain - and used it during the rehearsals. Well, he was an exemption. Knappertsbusch had been asked why he had the score at his music table during the performance others not. He replied, he had it there because he could read the score ! The old conductor stars permitted (even rarely) to escape one rehearsal for an important reason (scheduled solo concert or chamber concert), while many modern conductors would never allow such extras. They (perhaps) see every musician as same gifted as they are themselves, so to need all rehearsals. If just one member is missing, they get extremely nervous, if the replacement can make it with that few remaining rehearsals. This is not exaggerating, this is the truth from long time experience. Etc.etc. - a never ending story. Matthew Scheffelman wrote: Hans, Maybe you have answered one crucial question.What is the difference between the old greats and the newersuper stars? In one of your most recent posts you mentioned LISTENING. Listening is One of the qualities lacking both in modern conductors and modern quasi Musicians. Even at the highest levels today, listening has only become used for the answer to I am in tune, I am playing the right rhythm, therefor I am right. The contrary to this is flexibility, shaping of the sound etc. Many modern conductors learn their scores by FOLLOWING along with a recording. Even great ones use this technique. While the opportunity to conduct may be farther a few between, many conductors are learning MANY bad habits with this method. I believe the New School of conductors is quite great in many areas and with many people. For starters, it is a different way of going about rehearsal because of the extreme performance technique of the modern orchestral musician. There are not many reasons to be old school and yell rant and rave at the orchestra as there are MUCH fewer mistakes in execution by the top level orchestras. The relationship between the orchestra and the music director has changed also. There are more collaborations about programs between a musicians committee and the music director so programs and taste can be shown to come from within, rather the the singular vision of the conductor. This sharing and evolution is felt by the public through the performances which have personal meaning for the collective orchestra. Contrasting this with a old school conductor who chooses programs within his/her comfort zone, and missing what the collective orchestra might connect with more readily. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
That´s what I said allready in my letter. Critizism must be positive not destructive. A conductor who yells to the orchestra or at a certain player, will lose his last value the very same moment. And for the amateurs: less (challenging) is often more (quality) and thus more enjoyment. -Original Message- In other words, a professional *attitude* needs to be brought to rehearsal and performance irrespective of the quality of the players. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
Does not only apply to amateur orchestra. Great pigs in front of the orchestra (just reminding a world famous conductor who looked as his musicians in the manner of a rattle snake) often make the greatest concerts. Not so nice truth, but good for the music not so good for the nerves of many musicians. Sorry, I never had any great problems with such supposed monsters, just some very little discussions - which I won. = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:48 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles I used to help out with a local amateur orchestra, the conductor of which was notorious - he used to yell and bawl at his players and more than once I saw grown men and women crying behind their stands. The concerts were terrific! Eventually, the management took him to one side and told him to mend his ways and treat his players more gently. He did and everyone was much happier. The concerts sounded like any other amatuer orchestral concert. Cheers, Lawrence ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] mystery Conns
In my collection, I have a 6D with the Buescher name on it. I know there are a lot of 6D copies, but this one has the Conn trademark Deco braces. The horn differs from the 6D in that the lead pipe is tapered through the main tuning slide, all the way to the valves. The legs of the main tuning slide are different diameters. The horn is less powerful than a standard 6D, but the overall playing quality and sound quality are vastly improved. Stagliano is credited with the 6D design, but his huge mouthpiece on the normal 6D pipe would sound atrocious. On this horn, the combination would be right at home in Boston. Is the 6D the original Stagliano design, or was it modified to provide more power using a more conventional mouthpiece? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 5:55 PM Subject: [Hornlist] mystery Conns Looking at a Conn model list I saw the Schmidt Model 6D made from 1919-1934, and the Current 6D made from 1934 but there was also another 6D made with the same dates as the Schmidt. Here is the blurb from the model list: #2 Bore Double Rotary Valve ( Government Model) With or Without Stop Valve Would you think the goverment model was a normal Schmidt model in silverplate? Also I REALLY want to see a picture of the original 8D (1919-1929). The blurb on it is: Double Combination Single Piston Valves with Rotary Change Valve So Conn made a piston valve double with a rotor change valve AND a rotor valve horn with a piston stop at the same time? Are there any pictures of the piston 8D out there? LLB ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Conductors etc
Company politics are so important, I just can't justify wasting time on the job I was hired to do. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 7:00 AM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Conductors etc Two observations on what Steve said, as to not always the best getting the job, as it is in all industries/pursuits. A novel of the later part of the last Century, On Wings of Eagles follows the two careers of officers in the US Army. One is the perfect careerist seeking out the right job and getting to know the right people just to get ahead. The other is the stereotypic professional the man who does the right thing for the right reason, not for personal gain. The contrast in the two men reflected a lot of what goes on it large organizations, so much so that the head of the Army put the book on a required reading list. The other issue, on this side of the Atlantic at least, is the fact that conductors have to be able not only to be musicians, but must also be able to play up to the people in a community with the big purses to keep funding coming into the organization. Not only must he/she know how to get music from musicians but also work with the Board of Directors to get money out of donors to keep the orchestra solvent. I'm not sure if that is an issue in Europe. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Freides Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:28 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Conductors etc Hans Pizka wrote: I try it again to incend a fire(works) about conductors their means of interpretation, as the first attempt resulted in zero effect but one single reply. Are you to cautious to talk about conductors ? Because a few lure around in several lists ? What to fear ? Is it impossible to talk the truth ? Even about music ? Poor world intimidated by a handful of people, seems not funny but rather pervers. Hans, I did not respond because I think you stated the case very well. A good conductor must posses everything you suggest and, again as you suggest, many lack that all-important ability to inspire, to embue a performance with the kind of life that will bring the best out of the players and move an audience. I will also add that I have seen conductors who err in the other direction, as it were - they attempt to emote but lack musicianship, lack an understanding of the music they are conducting, or both, and their efforts seem superficial and insubstantial as a result. Unfortunately, in conducting more than in most other areas of musical endeavor, talent, hard work, and good results do not always lead to success. At least it seems this way to me - in a blind audition behind a curtain, the best player should prevail, but conductors are hired by much less direct processes. Because I went through music school as a conductor, I have had the opportunity to watch the careers of several of my colleagues, all of whom shall remain nameless here; suffice it to say that I have seen at least one very talented, hard-working individual achieve a career but only relatively minor success, while another who is a charlatan by measure of almost everyone who has either known him or played under him has risen to the top ranks of the profession, achieving his success, so far as I have been able to determine, by other means. Such is the way life works sometimes, I'm sad to say. Disclaimer, lest someone think my rant is some sort of sour grapes - I went through school as a choral conducting major with no aspirations of a career as a conductor. I am a theory and ear-training specialist and taught those subjects at the college level even before my doctorate was completed. Going through college as a conducting major was much more interesting than doing it as a theory major - I got to conduct a recital for my doctoral degree instead of having to write a thesis - how good is _that_? :) I have done one conducting engagement per year for the last several decades, a small professional choir hired for the Jewish High Holy Days (just finished) at a large congregation in suburban Philadelphia. I just finished my 27th year as conductor and every year feel completely humbled by the task of doing everything within my power at rehearsals and performances to make the music the most inspirational and moving it can be. I don't ever feel I've gotten it right but I find the process of trying to improve my own ability to, in turn, improve the performances a noble pursuit and one I look forward to each year. -S- What makes a good conductor Seems an interesting question. Well, most conductors have a very limited means of expresions or let us better say tools. They know slow-fast, loud-soft, hard-soft, short-long. But this could be done by a programmed machine also. Just think about an electric programmable jumping
[Hornlist] Re: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Mark, This is the link to the 4 recordings carried by ArkivMusic. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=11680name_role1=1comp_id=49979bcorder=15 I have heard them and they are all at least competent. Frankly, when you are talking about a piece like this, there is really no big interpretive' deal. They all play the notes,.some with more panache and clarity than others, but none of them are going to make you think that you are listening to the Adagio and Allegro. Silk purse and sow's ear and all that, you know. Don't flame me; I happen to LIKE the piece for what it is and am pleased that we have it as part of the repertoire. I'm just saying that you oughtn't fret over whether or not you have a good recording; in this case any that doesn't willfully misrepresent what Franz put to paper (did I once read that this was actually written by Richard, or am I mixing this up with something else?) will do quite nicely. This sort of work places the focus on the performer and their technical abilities without much hope of revealing the musical qualities of the piece or player. While you're at it, bookmark the Arkiv site. I've shilled for them many times on this list and I'm getting tired of repeating myself (no, I don't get $ .2 per click on their site. I'm just an appreciative customer.) I can and have suggested other sources (some devoted solely or largely to horn and some that connect with suppliers of non-USA issue recordings) to this list; you can contact me if your search of the archives doesn't turn up my postings. Regards, Peter Hirsch -- message: 8 date: Sun, 8 Oct 2006 16:05:25 -0400 from: Mark Syslo [EMAIL PROTECTED] subject: [Hornlist] recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations Can anyone recommend a good recording of Strauss' Theme and Variations? Mark Syslo ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Re: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations
Hello Peter, you are mixing things up indeed. R.Strauss wrote a piece Introduction, Thema Var. Op.17 at age 14 (1878) but it has nothing to do with this op.13 by Franz Strauss. It exists with orchestral accompaniment as does his original fantasy op.6 other pieces, I discovered two pieces for two horns in E orchestra by Franz Strauss, composed in his early years. The Strauss Society in Garmisch did not know them. My source is reliable as the owner was just 17 years younger than Franz Strauss´ son Richard. The composition date is given on the front page as 1847. The two scores are part of the heritage of the famous horn player who´s biography I´m writing at the moment. He left over 3000 pages on program notes critics (concert reviews) collected throughout his long career. He eventually played under famous Wagner conductor Hans Richter manytimes. More news later, as soon as the biography is completed, a very honourful task for me, as the player was one of my predecessors I had the pleasure to know him in person I played with some of his students for his six last birthdays before he died at age 93. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter Hirsch Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:03 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Hornlist] Re: recording of Franz Strauss Theme and Variations Mark, This is the link to the 4 recordings carried by ArkivMusic. http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/albumList.jsp?name_id1=1 1680name_role1=1comp_id=49979bcorder=15 I have heard them and they are all at least competent. Frankly, when you are talking about a piece like this, there is really no big interpretive' deal. They all play the notes,.some with more panache and clarity than others, but none of them are going to make you think that you are listening to the Adagio and Allegro. Silk purse and sow's ear and all that, you know. Don't flame me; I happen to LIKE the piece for what it is and am pleased that we have it as part of the repertoire. I'm just saying that you oughtn't fret over whether or not you have a good recording; in this case any that doesn't willfully misrepresent what Franz put to paper (did I once read that this was actually written by Richard, or am I mixing this up with something else?) will do quite nicely. This sort of work places the focus on the performer and their technical abilities without much hope of revealing the musical qualities of the piece or player. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Recital
Hey list, looking for a little feedback. I am doing a recital this year and have put together this so far as my rep *From Russia with horn (or somtheign cool and witty me thinks!)* ** *Four Pieces for Horn and Piano. - Gliere* **1. Romance 2. Valse Triste 3. Intermezzo 4. Nocturne *(Need to put an adaptation here to fill either ensemble or unaccompanied by a russian composer... ideas?)* ** *-Intermission-* ** *Concerto for horn and orchestra in B flat op.91 - Gliere* ** *(if encore needed the usual. Long Call)* ** *-End* ** as you can see its is russian based... one in paticular... so any thoughs on filling that one spot.??? And feedback as well would be awesome Mathew James -- Mathew James ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Recital
I would like to suggest the Concerto for Horn and Hardart by P.D.Q. Bach, although Hardart players are hard to find these days, and automats even harder. Steve tongue firmly in cheek Freides -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] du] On Behalf Of Mathew James Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 3:29 PM To: horn list Subject: [Hornlist] Recital Hey list, looking for a little feedback. I am doing a recital this year and have put together this so far as my rep *From Russia with horn (or somtheign cool and witty me thinks!)* ** *Four Pieces for Horn and Piano. - Gliere* **1. Romance 2. Valse Triste 3. Intermezzo 4. Nocturne *(Need to put an adaptation here to fill either ensemble or unaccompanied by a russian composer... ideas?)* ** *-Intermission-* ** *Concerto for horn and orchestra in B flat op.91 - Gliere* ** *(if encore needed the usual. Long Call)* ** *-End* ** as you can see its is russian based... one in paticular... so any thoughs on filling that one spot.??? And feedback as well would be awesome Mathew James -- Mathew James ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridays computer.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recital
A piece with a Russian/Polish character I've gotten good response to is Miniatury, for horn and piano, by Czeslaw Grudzinski, in six short movements. The horn part is quite low, with the piano pulling a lot of the weight, so it gives you a break between the fireworks. With the right accompanist, it can add a lot of color to a recital, but extract a very small price. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Mon, 9 Oct 2006 1:29 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Recital Hey list, looking for a little feedback. I am doing a recital this year and have put together this so far as my rep *From Russia with horn (or somtheign cool and witty me thinks!)* ** *Four Pieces for Horn and Piano. - Gliere* * *1. Romance 2. Valse Triste 3. Intermezzo 4. Nocturne *(Need to put an adaptation here to fill either ensemble or unaccompanied by a russian composer... ideas?)* ** *-Intermission-* ** *Concerto for horn and orchestra in B flat op.91 - Gliere* ** *(if encore needed the usual. Long Call)* ** *-End* ** as you can see its is russian based... one in paticular... so any thoughs on filling that one spot.??? And feedback as well would be awesome Mathew James -- Mathew James ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/billbamberg%40aol.com Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recital
Steve new automat in the Village ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
3) Hold your instructive comments until a substantial portion of the piece has been played-- better, wait until the movement is finished. Then go over your long list of comments with everyone. My biggest gripe is aimed at conductors who stop every time they have some comment to make-- this may be acceptable for the pro ranks, but it is totally unacceptable for amateur groups. Remember that amateurs are there to enjoy the music, not to be micromanaged by a neurotic conductor-- and there are many of these out there. I don't think this is necessarily the case. I have no objection to stops, provided that the stops are brief, and what the conductor says is to the point. I would rather there be a run-through towards the end of the rehearsal (if there's time) rather than at the beginning. Regards Jonathan West ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Conductors of amateur ensembles
Jonathan West wrote: 3) Hold your instructive comments until a substantial portion of the piece has been played-- better, wait until the movement is finished. Then go over your long list of comments with everyone. -snip- I don't think this is necessarily the case. I have no objection to stops, provided that the stops are brief, and what the conductor says is to the point. I would rather there be a run-through towards the end of the rehearsal (if there's time) rather than at the beginning. Going all the way through is, at least in my experience, more important the lower level of musicianship in the group relative to what needed, e.g., in difficult repertoire in my community band, the challenge is simply to make it through without the performance falling apart. For easier pieces where making it through isn't in doubt, we can afford to work more piecemeal. Just my opinion. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recital
Mathew James wrote: *(Need to put an adaptation here to fill either ensemble or unaccompanied by a russian composer... ideas?) Buyanovsky Pieces for solo horn. (pub. McCoy) Greg ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Recital
Wouldn´t it be better to prepare a nice calm piece as encore instead of a squeezed Long Call (after the whole program). Are you really thinking about the Long Call or about the Call from Siegfrieds Rhine Journey ? A nice calm piece would be Tcherepnine´s Esquisse, short calm, just showing nice lines tone quality. Or Scriabine´s Romance. Both not big effect pieces but easy beautiful as encore. As often said, less is often more. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mathew James Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 9:29 PM To: horn list Subject: [Hornlist] Recital Hey list, looking for a little feedback. I am doing a recital this year and have put together this so far as my rep *From Russia with horn (or somtheign cool and witty me thinks!)* ** *Four Pieces for Horn and Piano. - Gliere* **1. Romance 2. Valse Triste 3. Intermezzo 4. Nocturne *(Need to put an adaptation here to fill either ensemble or unaccompanied by a russian composer... ideas?)* ** *-Intermission-* ** *Concerto for horn and orchestra in B flat op.91 - Gliere* ** *(if encore needed the usual. Long Call)* ** *-End* ** as you can see its is russian based... one in paticular... so any thoughs on filling that one spot.??? And feedback as well would be awesome Mathew James -- Mathew James ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Recital
Greg, there would be a lot of other pieces to put on the program to fill a two or three hour or longer program. But isn´t the program long enough with the four pieces the concerto ? The player has just one pair of lips -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Campbell Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 6:00 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Recital Mathew James wrote: *(Need to put an adaptation here to fill either ensemble or unaccompanied by a russian composer... ideas?) Buyanovsky Pieces for solo horn. (pub. McCoy) Greg ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Recital
Mathew James wrote:
... recital ... russian based ...
Want to make 'em cry? Try something like Dark Eyes (Ochi chornya)
or There were days (westerners will recognize this as Those were the
days (my friend, we thought they'd never end...). Either
unaccompanied, or perhaps with a liquid clarinet or violin along with
you. There won't be a dry seat in the house.
Check out: http://russia-in-us.com/Music/Romance/
for several real audio versions (look below the yellow line - under Rada
and Nikolay Volshaninovs).
Such lush sadness!
--
{ David Goldberg: [EMAIL PROTECTED] }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
{ Ann Arbor Michigan }
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