RE: [Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C?
Hello Valerie, I hope you all did just the stage horns during the Alpine Symphony. Was this performance with a professional orchestra or an agglomerate from different sources of musicians ? If so (pick up orchestra or participants orchestra), sorry, it is better hands off certain kind of music so not to ruin it. There is NO compromise, no matter how much fun it be to play such. And playing music, is not a matter of "liking" to do it, it is rather a matter of the "abilities", which must be judged in an objective way not from the view of the enthusiast only. Doing Mahler, well, what can be ruined except the saoli ? With this big goulash ??? (Admitted, he has some very, very nice spots, but the majority is like a river after heavy rain. But nice playing. I do not see the horn parts standing alon, but the whole thing. And I have played all of his symphonies on many occasions even no.9 without an rehearsal, being called last minute to save the concert.) = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Valerie WELLS Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 2:37 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C? Hans wrote: Hans, there's a lot you don't know about my world. I must admit that I'm amused by your dizzy confusion over it, too! Your world isn't my world. I don't think I have the words to explain to you what drives the amateur, except to say that we do what we do because we love doing it! :o) Valerie, retired RN, having the time of my life riding my horn backwards PS. And, yes, doing the Alpine Symphony in the NW Mahler Festival was a big kick for me & about 15 other amateur horn players! HA! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Mozart Sinfonia no.29 in A
Yes, you can play K.201 on the big horn - I did it on my Viennese Horn (no problem if you have a good high B-natural) and it sounded light (!!) - , but does it make sense to squeeze the notes out or to blair them out on the big horn ? It is heard that way so often. But it should all be light (in Italian: a squillo), light as Champagne, light as Mozart. Mozart is in the foreground. And a question: what kind of an orchestra, where the proposed first player can say he would play second horn ? Or was it some kind of an pick up orchestra for that gig ? If so, why did you not resist the temptation & tell´m you were hired for the second horn. You would have saved a lot of your nerves & frustration. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reba McLaurin Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:30 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Mozart Sinfonia no.29 in A Actually, my post was not entirely accurate. I had just returned from a sabbatical when I got asked to play the gig by our personnel manager because everyone else in town turned it down. I was told that I was playing second. I got to the gig and found out I was on first because the other player wanted to play second. I had no option other than the "big horn." Because of the way things work in this town, I had to accept the gig (if I wanted to continue working on the horn in this town), and I knew to practice both parts. I think the other piece on the program was Mozart 21 or 22. I think it was in c alto, but I'm not sure... it was a while back and I threw away the program. On the subject of descant or high hornsif you can't play the piece on the "big horn", you have no business pulling out a descant or high f horn. (especially if you don't own one.) The instrument should be used for color, a change of timbre, and style, and not to "get the high notes out". I think there are specific periods of music that are appropriate for high horns and natural horns, and these instruments sound their very best when they are used in pairs. I don't see what the big deal is about using the big horn on Mozart. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Songs for Medium Voice, Horn, and Piano
Visit my home page & go to the publication list: www.pizka.de/Pizka-music.html/Voice.html = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of M. Elizabeth Fleming Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 12:46 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Songs for Medium Voice, Horn, and Piano Hello, dear list-readers! I was wondering if anyone knows of any songs for Medium (or Medium-High or Medium-Low; Baritone) Voice, Horn and Piano? Any era will do just fine. Thanks so much! Elizabeth F. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Mozart Sinfonia no.29 in A
Actually, my post was not entirely accurate. I had just returned from a sabbatical when I got asked to play the gig by our personnel manager because everyone else in town turned it down. I was told that I was playing second. I got to the gig and found out I was on first because the other player wanted to play second. I had no option other than the "big horn." Because of the way things work in this town, I had to accept the gig (if I wanted to continue working on the horn in this town), and I knew to practice both parts. I think the other piece on the program was Mozart 21 or 22. I think it was in c alto, but I'm not sure... it was a while back and I threw away the program. On the subject of descant or high hornsif you can't play the piece on the "big horn", you have no business pulling out a descant or high f horn. (especially if you don't own one.) The instrument should be used for color, a change of timbre, and style, and not to "get the high notes out". I think there are specific periods of music that are appropriate for high horns and natural horns, and these instruments sound their very best when they are used in pairs. I don't see what the big deal is about using the big horn on Mozart. On 8/22/07, hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is definitely "insane" to do such. After one year hiatus > & without a high horn & even another still higher symphony - > which one ? > > If one has no access to a high horn, one should decline > accepting such a task. It would be better for the player, > the audience & the music & last for Mozart. > > Declining a task or declining a gig is not a matter of "want > to play it", but rather a matter of realism & "potentials of > the player". Anything else is MAD. > > As a lot of professionals are getting nervous if this > particular symphony is on the program, why amateurs or less > experienced or part timers or house wive players cannot > resist the temptation Is this a problem of masochism ? > It seems to be. Or is it a big problem of underestimating a > task ? It seems also to be that. Or is it a problem of false > self-assessment. > > I think it is the last one, sorry ! > > == > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Reba McLaurin > Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:33 AM > To: The Horn List > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] RE: Mozart Sinfonia no.29 in A > > What if you don't have access to any type of "high" horn. > An F or Bflat or descant or natural horn. I got asked to do > it without one once. It was a nightmare because it was > right after I had spent a year off the horn, but I did it > anyway. I just wanted to play, and I really didn't have any > reputation to damage or job to lose at the time. Was there > something I could have done to make it easier on a standard > double horn? It was kind of hard, and the program included > another Mozart symphony that was even higher. This made it > seem to be more difficult than it actually was. > > On 8/20/07, hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Your problem is, that you are used to Bb fingering, while > I prefer the > > F-fingering, so high F fingering is ZERO problem. > > On the Bb horn you miss the great opportunity to avoid > > finger-squeezing for the ##-tonalities, haha. > > > > If you like a bit stronger sound, use the Bb-high F but > removing the > > Bb-slides. It works superbly & is a compromise. > > > > > === > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of > > Alon reuven > > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 11:05 PM > > To: horn@music.memphis.edu > > Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Mozart Sinfonia no.29 in A > > > > Hans is allmost there - I do think that one may use a high > F horn , > > but not single , but double .I mean , Bb/Hi F.and because > you may use > > it right on the F# on the top of the staff , you would > have no hard > > time with the fingerings . As for the sound - just follow > your ear , > > and your body would guide you properly . > > Alon > > ___ > > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > > unsubscribe or set options at > > > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. > > de > > > > > > ___ > > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > > unsubscribe or set options at > > > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sallym.of.mcl > aurin%40gm > > ail.com > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. > de > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sallym.of.mclaurin%40gmail.com >
[Hornlist] Re: natural horn rental
Responding to: I've been playing it on my modern horn (in Eb), as if it were a natural horn, but it would be really neat if I could get my hands on a real natural horn for the recital (and a bit before so I can practice with it). Idaho is the anti-culture center of the world (and our campus currently does not own a natural horn), so does anyone know of any way I can rent a natural horn from someone/someplace nearby? Also, if I can't find one, what suggestions do people have for making a modern horn feel/sound more like a natural horn (I know it won't sound the same, but even a little closer would be better than nothing). I've heard that removing all unnecessary slides helps, is this true? Thanks, Heather Response: I am quite fond of Idaho, I drive through a couple of time each summer & it seems there are some nice places, but maybe not Eastern Idaho. I know of a natural horn with crooks for sale & Lowell Greer always seems to have one for sale too. Contact me off list. If you cant find one for your recital, I dont think removing the valves does anything, except clue the audience in to the fact that you dont have valve pipes, which is a good idea. I did quite a lot with a single F horn without the valves before I got a Jurachek (sp?) hand horn, only to learn that the bore of those horns just isnt correct for a true copy. My hand isnt correct either; it is in general bigger than the average hand size of 200 years ago. The key is that a true natural horn will be of smaller bore size and more gradually tapered throughout the horn. Fewer slides means there can be less straight sections of tubing. But there are many varieties of old horns. For a recital I played this Summer I did play a natural horn work on my valve horn, but changed my mouthpiece to my sheet metal one. This makes a big difference for me, it evens the colour out . . . Richard Burdick ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] natural horn rental
John, good for you...couldn't have said it better myself ;-) Jeff Snedeker himself thought enough of Boise to make a trip up here for the Northwest Horn Workshop last May, along with about 10 of his students. For Heather at BYU-Idaho, I encourage you to contact Dr. David Saunders (the "David" in John's message) at Boise State University. You can reach him through the music office at 208-426-1596. Dr. Saunders was thinking of procuring a natural horn for his students at the University. He is very much in touch with the horn world around us, so I would give him a try. _ A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here. http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born
Another reason to "Go Army." A Commander in the Army doesn't go down with his ship. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hans Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:18 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born LSO did not undertake a tour to play on a ship but to travel to the USA. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Scarpelli Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:12 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born Ah, but don't forget, the movie depicts the "orchestra" went down with the ship. Regards, Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Haflich Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:57 PM To: The Horn List; hans Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born From: "hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... If Aubrey Brain were on the Titanic, nobody dares to think that, We would not have had Dennis Brain. We _might_ not have had Dennis brain. Many passengers survived the disaster. In very round numbers (from Wikipedia) the ship could carry about 3500 passegers and crew, while about 1500 lives were lost. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/joescarpelli% 40earthlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C?
Could it be Mozart said it best, about amateur musicians that is? (I do count myself in that number.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Valerie WELLS Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:37 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C? Hans wrote: Hans, there's a lot you don't know about my world. I must admit that I'm amused by your dizzy confusion over it, too! Your world isn't my world. I don't think I have the words to explain to you what drives the amateur, except to say that we do what we do because we love doing it! :o) Valerie, retired RN, having the time of my life riding my horn backwards PS. And, yes, doing the Alpine Symphony in the NW Mahler Festival was a big kick for me & about 15 other amateur horn players! HA! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/bgross%40airmail.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C?
Hans wrote: invested in hornplaying, I also wonder very much, why they too often seem to mount the hors backwards. Many of you have still to struggle with technical & musical basics, but talk about Strauss no.2, Alpine Symphony, Mozart no.29, stopping extreme weak notes Notes which are weak for the best professionals, where the professionals use all kind of unorthodox tricks), but the same struggling amateurs often commanded by complete knowledgeless conductors attempt these notes the orthodox way completely helpless. I do not understand why that is so. Is it a matter of lacking knowledge or do they try to do it better than the experienced professionals ? Tell me the reason for such behaviour, please.> Hans, there's a lot you don't know about my world. I must admit that I'm amused by your dizzy confusion over it, too! Your world isn't my world. I don't think I have the words to explain to you what drives the amateur, except to say that we do what we do because we love doing it! :o) Valerie, retired RN, having the time of my life riding my horn backwards PS. And, yes, doing the Alpine Symphony in the NW Mahler Festival was a big kick for me & about 15 other amateur horn players! HA! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Songs for Medium Voice, Horn, and Piano
Hello, dear list-readers! I was wondering if anyone knows of any songs for Medium (or Medium-High or Medium-Low; Baritone) Voice, Horn and Piano? Any era will do just fine. Thanks so much! Elizabeth F. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Sansone horns
Lorenzo Sansone did in fact stencil his name on horns such as some of the signature 5-valve B horns which were made by Alexander or Paxman. He did also have a horn factory in NYC prior to WWII where he built and experimented with his horn designs. The double horn in question with the "reversed" valve slides that everyone loves to hate, was so pitiful due to one of the sons. Lorenzo was mostly retired by this time and the son had bid out to the US Quartermaster Corps to supply instruments for the Army bands. The resultant product was built like a tank, assembled quickly and poorly by unskilled labor, and played like one might expect. These USQMC horns sort of torpedoed the Sansone name as far as instrument manufacture and the sons then concentrated on the sheet music business which of course is Southern Music Company and remains successful. Caesar LaMonaca's father was friends with Lorenzo and in fact Caesar had a Sansone double when he first went to NY/Julliard. I think the best of these doubles might be charitably called decent and average. Lorenzo's efforts and energies were definitely spent on his 5 valve single design(s). The Jack Attack! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] RE: Embouchure Frustrations
Valerie, I'm speaking from first-hand experience here, using the book. As I did the prescribed exercises, my high range suffered with "no speakies." One size does not fit all. I'm not putting down the method, it just doesn't work for all. For you it does. Great! Herb Foster --- Valerie WELLS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > problems. However, not for all, especially, I think, for those with very > thin lips. The harder skin on the edge of the lips doesn't vibrate so well, > and you get "no speakies."< > > Thank you for your comment, Herb. Meaning no disrespect, but your response > is a perfect example of the most common misconception I've seen among horn > players about Jeff Smiley's Balanced Embouchure development system (BE). > "BE" is NOT a prescribed embouchure setting requiring the "harder skin" on > the outer edges of the lips to aproximate & vibrate. Some take a quick > glance at Smiley's website & assume that because "rolling in" exercises are > part of BE, it's the whole program. "Rolling in" exercises are only part of > the big picture. The big picture also includes "rolling out," tonguing on > the lips, snaps, zips, rips, lip slurs & other techniques. These techniques > are tools incorporated into a system that guides the student in developing > their own balanced embouchure which will "speak" efficiently in all > registers regardless of the thickness of the lips. > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] natural horn rental
[Q] I'm a senior at Brigham Young University-Idaho and I've got a senior recital coming up in October. One of the pieces I'm performing (Goodbye to a Friend by Jeffrey Snedeker) calls for an E or Eb natural horn. I've been playing it on my modern horn (in Eb), as if it were a natural horn, but it would be really neat if I could get my hands on a real natural horn for the recital (and a bit before so I can practice with it). Idaho is the anti-culture center of the world (and our campus currently does not own a natural horn), so does anyone know of any way I can rent a natural horn from someone/someplace nearby? [/Q] BYU-Idaho might very well be the anti-culture of the western US but I feel quite certain that Boise and Moscow would sure take umbrage to your statement-of course they aren't in your university system either. There are natural horns and fine players in both those locations. Perhaps you should contact Pam or Dan or Jennifer or David in Boise or Bob Dickow in Moscow. Perhaps you should contact your parent school in Provo. At any rate, Rexburg is only 4.5 hour drive to Boise or only a little more to SLC. Maybe offer an exchange like a day at the St Anthony sand dunes for the loan of the natural horn. Maybe a case of my favorite Wasatch Brewing Company beverage-Polygamy Porter-would do the trick...why have just one... The Jack Attack! http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html Their motto is: We drink our share and sell the rest! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] natural horn rental
Heather wrote: > I'm a senior at Brigham Young University-Idaho and I've got a > senior recital coming up in October. One of the pieces I'm > performing (Goodbye to a Friend by Jeffrey Snedeker) calls > for an E or Eb natural horn. I've been playing it on my > modern horn (in Eb), as if it were a natural horn, but it > would be really neat if I could get my hands on a real > natural horn for the recital (and a bit before so I can > practice with it). Idaho is the anti-culture center of the > world (and our campus currently does not own a natural horn), > so does anyone know of any way I can rent a natural horn from > someone/someplace nearby? > > Also, if I can't find one, what suggestions do people have > for making a modern horn feel/sound more like a natural horn > (I know it won't sound the same, but even a little closer > would be better than nothing). I've heard that removing all > unnecessary slides helps, is this true? You have a few possibilities. You could play the piece on your modern horn but in the key of F and not use the valves. You could play the piece on your modern horn but in the key of F but lengthen your tuning slide to get a bit closer to E. Still don't use the valves. You could play the piece on your modern horn but have a new tuning slide made that's long enough to pitch your horn in Eb. I've owned at least one horn that was modern in that it had valves but it came with an Eb "crook" so that it would stand in Eb and not in F. I don't know if double horns were sold this way but I've seen a few single F horn from roughly 1920 to 1960 like this - I have no idea if this dates are right, they just represent what I happen to have put my own hands on. Still don't use the valves. Removing the slides should really make an audible difference, although it will make the horn slightly lighter. Just my opinion. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Sansone horns
Richard Hirsh wrote: model 77 was based on a Kruespe wrap and became the basis for the Farkas model horns. Model 76 and 77 horns have similar playing qualities, and seem to share many components. The model 376 was produced as a student horn for several years, and seems to be approximately the same horn as the model 76.> Richard, Thanks so much. I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't remember noticing that the smaller Bb slides were on top, so I don't think it was one of those. But, I did noticed how remarkably similar this horn is to my Holton Farkas the way the Bb slide was placed and the general wrap. It was a nice playing horn; just very, VERY heavy. I wondered if the valves were made of pure lead. Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born
LSO did not undertake a tour to play on a ship but to travel to the USA. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Scarpelli Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:12 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born Ah, but don't forget, the movie depicts the "orchestra" went down with the ship. Regards, Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Haflich Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:57 PM To: The Horn List; hans Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born From: "hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... If Aubrey Brain were on the Titanic, nobody dares to think that, We would not have had Dennis Brain. We _might_ not have had Dennis brain. Many passengers survived the disaster. In very round numbers (from Wikipedia) the ship could carry about 3500 passegers and crew, while about 1500 lives were lost. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/joescarpelli% 40earthlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] natural horn rental
I'm a senior at Brigham Young University-Idaho and I've got a senior recital coming up in October. One of the pieces I'm performing (Goodbye to a Friend by Jeffrey Snedeker) calls for an E or Eb natural horn. I've been playing it on my modern horn (in Eb), as if it were a natural horn, but it would be really neat if I could get my hands on a real natural horn for the recital (and a bit before so I can practice with it). Idaho is the anti-culture center of the world (and our campus currently does not own a natural horn), so does anyone know of any way I can rent a natural horn from someone/someplace nearby? Also, if I can't find one, what suggestions do people have for making a modern horn feel/sound more like a natural horn (I know it won't sound the same, but even a little closer would be better than nothing). I've heard that removing all unnecessary slides helps, is this true? Thanks, Heather ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born
Ah, but don't forget, the movie depicts the "orchestra" went down with the ship. Regards, Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Haflich Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:57 PM To: The Horn List; hans Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born From: "hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... If Aubrey Brain were on the Titanic, nobody dares to think that, We would not have had Dennis Brain. We _might_ not have had Dennis brain. Many passengers survived the disaster. In very round numbers (from Wikipedia) the ship could carry about 3500 passegers and crew, while about 1500 lives were lost. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/joescarpelli%40earthlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born
Well it depends on what class they were in. If they were in first class, he would have a better chance of surviving than if they were in 3rd. Recently though, a painting on the back of a menu from the Titanic that was printed the day of the sinking was found and appraised for nearly $100,000. Then again, a deck chair from the doomed ship also fetched about $382,000 at auction. -William -Original Message- From: Steve Haflich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: The Horn List ; hans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born From: "hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... If Aubrey Brain were on the Titanic, nobody dares to think that, We would not have had Dennis Brain. We _might_ not have had Dennis brain. Many passengers survived the disaster. In very round numbers (from Wikipedia) the ship could carry about 3500 passegers and crew, while about 1500 lives were lost. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C?
On Aug 23, 2007, at 7:13 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: message: 11 date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:02:23 -0700 (PDT) from: rob schmidtke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> subject: Re: [Hornlist] Stopped horn -- what's with middle C? Try this exercises, play written G (second Line in staff) Close your hand like a gate or door, not stuffing your hand in the bell. Students I have with small hands I find are usually trying to get their hand too far in the bell. For me (very large hand), I keep my regular hand position and "close" it off. If done correctly the pitch will drop, yes drop not go up. keep the same relaxed embouchure, to ensure that the note drops to an F. Now try an E (first line) do the same and it will drop to a C#. and on the written C ( middle C) it will drop to a G#. When we stop a note the pitch actually drops to 1/2 step above the next lowest partial. The best fingerings to use are 1/2 step below the note you are trying to play, always (well usually) on the f horn. I personally always play stopped on the f horn , not on Bb. I hope this exercises helps out, it has helped my students greatly. I think it helps to know that what happens to the horn when we stop it and what we are trying to do are two separate things. Rob Schmidtke It seems this comes up every so often, so at the risk of starting up the old wildfire, I will put my $.02 in on this. The part above about the hand position is great and many people do try to stuff their hands too far in the bell for stopping. If your hand does fit your bell, you can just reach across as explained, touch the other side of the bell and transpose a half step down (on F horn). Even if your hand is too small you should use this technique. If the resulting pitches are too sharp, as they will be if your hand is too small, go for the best, nasty stop sound you can get- by playing louder than usual and perhaps bringing the lips together a bit for a thinner sound- and then, after you have mastered the sound and feel of the notes, figure out what fingerings DO work (intonation wise) for you. It may happen that once you have mastered the sound, the pitch will get closer to what you need, but it probably will not solve everything. Playing lower stopped notes demands more "seal" than upper ones, but it really is a matter of finding just the right amount. Remember, if you sealed everything off, there would be NO note. Try pressing with different parts of the fleshy part of the hand that is now touching the bell. Think of "spreading your hand out." Experiment! Practice! In terms of the note actually produced, it might be worth considering that stopping on F horn produces a harmonic series 1/2 step higher than what you start with. In other words, if you are playing on the open F horn, which is a written C series for us, and fully stop it, you will get a C# series (F# concert). If you were really turning a written C into a G# below it, it seems to me that should generate a G# series, which it definitely does not. It could be said that closing the hand this way takes you down to the next harmonic down in a series that is a half step higher. For the most part, this does not effect fingerings, but there are inconsistencies, and i believe this is what started the age old transpose a half step or down (?) controversy that i grew up with. This can become an issue when you are attacking a note because you may be aiming at the wrong one. (I explain this in my book.) In the lower register this becomes more pronounced because the harmonics are farther apart. Combine this with the fact that many people reach too low with their lips when they play low and you can see why stopping in the lower register is as tricky as it is. If you are aiming at a C to get a G# below it instead of the G below it, this is a bit of a difference. Using the sliding down method above is very helpful in learning to make a quick, good seal and get to the proper position in a hurry, and it can give you a better feeling for how close these notes are to each other, which is always a good thing. Everyone should spend time doing this. To be clear, I am not arguing with you. The produced harmonic series thing can be explained in other ways (especially by certain vegetables- : )) and, as I said, the fingerings come out pretty much the same anyway. The results are what counts and, being the adaptable creatures we are and the many variations of hand sizes and bell throat sizes, it is clear that there is no one set of fingering rules for everyone. Fortunately, most stopped passages are short. I also support playing higher notes on the Bb horn and if you can find a Bb fingering that works for some nasty low one, use it. Finally, if money or reputation is on the table, as it usually is, use a mute technique like Hans suggested or get a stop mute. I rarely used a stop mute when I was playing p
Re: [Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born
From: "hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ... If Aubrey Brain were on the Titanic, nobody dares to think that, We would not have had Dennis Brain. We _might_ not have had Dennis brain. Many passengers survived the disaster. In very round numbers (from Wikipedia) the ship could carry about 3500 passegers and crew, while about 1500 lives were lost. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Interesting story - D.Brain nearly not born
During a phone call to England this early afternoon, I learned the following about Aubrey Brain (I had forgotten, that this story is included in Stephen Pettitt´s biography on Dennis Brain, but most of the younger list members would not know that story anyway !). He played 4rth horn in the London Symphony 1912, when he was 19 years old, replacing his father A.E.Brain, who had his duties at the Covent Garden Opera House. The whole London Symphony was booked on the "Titanic", but for some reason, the schedule of the tour was changed, so the left a few dys earlier with the "Baltic", - - fortunately. If Aubrey Brain were on the Titanic, nobody dares to think that, We would not have had Dennis Brain. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C?
Valerie, while I admire the effort (money & time) of amateur players invested in hornplaying, I also wonder very much, why they too often seem to mount the hors backwards. Many of you have still to struggle with technical & musical basics, but talk about Strauss no.2, Alpine Symphony, Mozart no.29, stopping extreme weak notes Notes which are weak for the best professionals, where the professionals use all kind of unorthodox tricks), but the same struggling amateurs often commanded by complete knowledgeless conductors attempt these notes the orthodox way completely helpless. I do not understand why that is so. Is it a matter of lacking knowledge or do they try to do it better than the experienced professionals ? Tell me the reason for such behaviour, please. My personal opinion on this matter is not only related to the amateur community but also to a greater fraction of non-first-horn-professionals. We tell them how to produce this & that, they nod & say Yeah, but do the same old stuff the next entrance thy play, with the same defects. Are they deaf or ignorant or both ? I will come a few days later with examples about musical phrasing & bet, you will either laught or rather cry. And all who know me, I do not exaggerate nor do I play foul play. Truth is truth & fact is fact. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Valerie WELLS Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:51 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C? Thank you, Hans for your response & explanations. Hans wrote: How should I know? I'm only an amateur! ;o) < Why you amateurs, why are you going for the extreme so often?> Until now, I didn't know that stopped horn on middle C was considered "extreme." Gimme a break, buddy! On my Holton 179 I can easily play stopped horn with my brass mute all the way down to an F. Now I'm hearing for the first time that this is on the extreme end. Who knew? :o) Please tell me, Hans, what else is considered "extreme" for an amateur. Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, found everywhere in Broadway
Ken Pope wrote: is SO loud the stopped horn can not be heard. ... Lastly, the sound engineer usually places the pit orchestra at such a lower volume level than the singers that they sound as if they're being 'phoned in'. ... So... don't worry so much about the stopped playing in Broadway shows. The only exception I would add to this is if it is a matter of caring how your colleagues around you want it to sound. I would also say that you always want to play your best at ALL times, and sometimes that might mean making a change to the parts > Thanks, Ken, that is reassuring & comforting to this come-back amateur who's only been at it for about 20 months now. :o) I played this modern religious oratorio gig a few months ago. I was the one & only horn (the other one, a high school kid, quit). Much of the music was beyond my abilities. I did my level best, got the major solos okay, played in tune, etc. But some of the toughest technical licks I clammed, but they were drowned out by percussion anyway. So who knew? I modestly received lots of compliments and the director was none-the-less grateful for my contribution & let me know I would be called upon again. Whoo hoo! :o) Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] RE: Stopped horn -- what's with middle C?
Thank you, Hans for your response & explanations. Hans wrote: you read my posts where I explained how to do it: Do it with 12 on F horn & "mute" it down. It is not as edgy as with the stop mute but better audible. < Thank you very much, Hans, for your response & explanations. This will be very helpful to me. In the few minutes I had with one of the horns at Dillons, I did try fingering it 12 & found it a bit clearer. How should I know? I'm only an amateur! ;o) < Why you amateurs, why are you going for the extreme so often?> Until now, I didn't know that stopped horn on middle C was considered "extreme." Gimme a break, buddy! On my Holton 179 I can easily play stopped horn with my brass mute all the way down to an F. Now I'm hearing for the first time that this is on the extreme end. Who knew? :o) Please tell me, Hans, what else is considered "extreme" for an amateur. Valerie ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Bob Ward's 7-year itch
Here it is: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/23/DDGCIRM8K91.DTL&hw=robert+ward&sn=001&sc=1000 Congrats, Bob... Fred On 8/23/07, Steve Haflich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > About a week ago I noticed that the "Acting" had disappeared in Bob's > signature block. I hadn't heard any announcement, but confirmation is > in this morning's San Francisco Chronicle. Bob got more than a column > writeup and a nice photo. > > (Most of the SF Chron is available online, but I can't find the > article online yet. If it shows up later I'll post the url.) > > Congratulations, Bob! > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, found everywhere in Broadway
I like to say that Andrew Lloyd Weber paid for my house (having spent 3 years as principal horn touring with he and his wife) - and I can honestly say that the majority of times Pit conductors are keyboardists - NOT conductors. They typically do not know if you're playing stopped or not - OR, the pit is SO loud the stopped horn can not be heard. Lastly, the sound engineer usually places the pit orchestra at such a lower volume level than the singers that they sound as if they're being 'phoned in'. I once took off a show to watch our production - it was really depressing! All of our hard work in the pit was basically lost in the mix, or was obliterated by the volume levels of the singers. So... don't worry so much about the stopped playing in Broadway shows. The only exception I would add to this is if it is a matter of caring how your colleagues around you want it to sound. I would also say that you always want to play your best at ALL times, and sometimes that might mean making a change to the parts Sincerely Ken (off the road) Pope "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns & Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] New Horn Design/Concept
Yeah, kind of like that $400 driver. Helps Tiger but I still slice. Regards, Joe -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hans Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:30 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] New Horn Design/Concept Sorry, this has been done before. Ask Engelbert Schmid. His valves are designed that way. Does it help the weak player ? No ! Definitely no ! Does it help the top players ? Perhaps, do get still an improvement. But those struggling with the single notes may never feel the improvement, but they will buy it as some kind of "placebo". Nevertheless, it is great that some players & designers do research to improve our instrument. = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Wester Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:25 PM To: The Horn List Subject: [Hornlist] New Horn Design/Concept I have been playing around with a horn design based on a valve that I thought up. The primary goal of this design is to have an constant bore size through out the entire horn. Never having a crimp or pinch anywhere throughout the horn. Current horn designs rotary valve clusters are a massive row of crimped passages. So I set out to design a valve that would maintain a bore size when straight through and when diverting its air through the valve slide. I used 3D modeling software to mock up the horn. I haven't modeled it exactly correct, due to my limitations with the software. So the tubing lengths for the F and Bb side are guesstimates. And I haven't included a thumb lever. But the main gist of the design is there. I would be interested to hear your comments. I realize that this design could result in a heavy horn. I am planning on experimenting with alloys to decrease the weight of the valves. I also haven't modeled the valves exactly as they would be ( again due to lack of modeling ability ), I have a few different ideas of how to construct the valves. Pics of the design are in the Photo section of the Yahoo group. http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_153230/fce0/__sr_/f044.jpg?g rA.hzGBhuEjY13g http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_153230/fce0/__sr_/6ee7.jpg?g rA.hzGBSTSJkH5q http://f9g.yahoofs.com/groups/g_153230/fce0/__sr_/6751.jpg?g rA.hzGBa_rZiQCa Thanks, James Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/ ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/joescarpelli%40earthlink.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Bob Ward's 7-year itch
About a week ago I noticed that the "Acting" had disappeared in Bob's signature block. I hadn't heard any announcement, but confirmation is in this morning's San Francisco Chronicle. Bob got more than a column writeup and a nice photo. (Most of the SF Chron is available online, but I can't find the article online yet. If it shows up later I'll post the url.) Congratulations, Bob! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Sansone horns
Most of Lorenzo Sansone's horns were single Bb instruments. The most famous was the 5 valve model, which included a stop valve under the thumb and an F extension under the fourth finger. That model was the one lampooned in the Schmutzig advertisements. Sansone did not manufacture these instruments but contracted with various German makers to produce them. He also designed a double horn with the F slides below the Bb slides. I owned one briefly many years ago, an unmitigated piece of garbage. However I recently tried one which was quite nice. I don't know if he produced those instruments himself. The two examples I have tried were like night and day for playing quality and for workmanship. Based on some recent work on I have done, I think the one I tried recently might have been made by Foster Reynolds. It would certainly be consistent for him to use a contractor for such a complex instrument. Anyway, Valerie's note that the horn she tried was very heavy would match the one I saw recently. Sansone's design was subsequently picked up by Holton as the model 76. The model 77 was based on a Kruespe wrap and became the basis for the Farkas model horns. Model 76 and 77 horns have similar playing qualities, and seem to share many components. The model 376 was produced as a student horn for several years, and seems to be approximately the same horn as the model 76. Richard Hirsh, Chicago ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Dennis Brain anniversary
We - means Luca Benucci, Dale Clevenger & myself - just dedicated the mini-symposium of three days we held in Sicily, we dedicated it to the memory of D.B. It is not a shame to tell you, that we both - Dale & me - came to tears when we told the listeners about our feelings when we got the terrible notice of the accident. Dale was 17 then, I was not yet 15 1/2. I remember that I just had played my first Mozart 4 with the orchestra I played as a professional then. It was four days after, when I heard the terrible news. Dennis Brains Mozart concertos was our only horn record we owned, Dale & me. Hello Hans, we spent three really pleasant days in Sicily. Despite some organization problems the meeting was successful, very interesting and useful in an informal and relaxed athmosphere. There were masterclasses and various ensemble playing in the evenings. In the last one we heard a nice quartet Benucci-Clevenger-Becker-Pizka (Konstantin Becker is the principal horn at the Teatro La Fenice in Venice). I recorded that but have still to check how the recording came out; possibly I'll put it on a web page I'm going to set up, with an account of the meeting and several pictures. There was also a lot of fish-eating and wine-drinking... I almost forgot to say that Hans presented his new composition for solo horn (and of course, you can bet that we heard the Long Call played by him). Daniel ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, found everywhere in Broadway horn..
The question was about "middle c stopped". 15 places for stopped horn, my goodness, so often ??? What happen in Puccini & R.Strauss ?? When they habe too many stopped pasages, but they knew how to write & leave time to place the hand or the mute (not allways). But why not playing the passage before a stopped strange note as middle c with the mute right in there but lifted out enough to produce a tone like open ? And insert/remove the mute when there is time ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of matthew scheffelman Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 8:21 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Stopped horn, found everywhere in Broadway horn.. In Broadway music, the horn writing requires stopped horn very often, more often than any orchestral music or opera. Also, much "modern" music uses stopped horn. The show I am playing right now has at least 15 different places for stopped horn. There is NO way to use a stop mute for this writing as I am more often going from a open note to stopped with no time With the mic. placement, I have to perfect, always, with intonation and attack. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Stopped horn, found everywhere in Broadway horn..
In Broadway music, the horn writing requires stopped horn very often, more often than any orchestral music or opera. Also, much "modern" music uses stopped horn. The show I am playing right now has at least 15 different places for stopped horn. There is NO way to use a stop mute for this writing as I am more often going from a open note to stopped with no time With the mic. placement, I have to perfect, always, with intonation and attack. Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
