RE: [Hornlist] Tuning a double horn(playing sharp)
It means, that you cramp the one or the opposite way. Why not playing all relaxed with less vertical pressure, mouthpiece set at the edge of the lower lip so it pulls the lip opening open enough ? You would soon find out that you play more relaxed without getting sharp or flat. Getting flat due to playing low parts ? Why ? Because you are digging into the ground instead of playing the low notes just as other notes. Try it ! Just practising the one or the other extreme does not improve anything. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Valerie WELLS Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 5:17 AM To: horn1 list Subject: [Hornlist] Tuning a double horn(playing sharp) Everytime I start to have trouble playing chronically sharp, all I have to do to correct the problem is to spend an appreciable amount of time working on low horn work, & I mean VERY LOW horn work. My favorite low horn part to honk around on is Kerry Turner's Quartet # 1. I can't play the fourth part worth beans, but it sure is fun & always relaxes my embouchure. When I first started working on it, I spent at least an hour a day on it. After about five days of that, I was so flat I was still below pitch will my tuning slide pushed all the way in. Valerie___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Insertion Depth - Different on my 2 horns
Steve: the only thing to do is, you must compensate the length gained on the Yamaha by pushing the main tuning slide in for another 2,5 mms (makes a total of 5 mms). - and for John Dutton: my mouthpieces are made after the US standard (shank). It is a pitty, that horn makers around the world never agree, to make the mouthpiece receiver of equal dimensions - like the car makers, but they are getting better. == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Freides Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 3:21 AM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Insertion Depth - Different on my 2 horns Horn #1 = Alexander Bb single, vintage ~1975. Horn #2 = Yamaha 666, vintage ~1982. Mouthpiece = Pizka. I measured how far the mpc goes into the lead pipe on each because I noticed it goes in less far on the Yamaha. Alex = 24 mm insertion depth Yamaha = 19 mm insertion depth What am I to do about this? Which is right, which is wrong, and what, if anything, should I do, assuming I wish to continue to use this same mouthpiece on both horns. As I've mentioned in the past, I'm an amateur horn player with a long background as a professional musician and with perfect pitch. I will lip anything out of tune back into tune and I rarely notice when I do this. So far as I can tell, the difference in insertion depth isn't a problem, but I thought I should ask because I'm hoping, as time goes on, I might actually learn to play without lipping things and then I might have a problem. I suspect that my poor endurance as a horn player is related to the fact that I am forever lipping out of tune notes. Thanks in advance for your advice. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Tuning a double horn(playing sharp)
Everytime I start to have trouble playing chronically sharp, all I have to do to correct the problem is to spend an appreciable amount of time working on low horn work, & I mean VERY LOW horn work. My favorite low horn part to honk around on is Kerry Turner's Quartet # 1. I can't play the fourth part worth beans, but it sure is fun & always relaxes my embouchure. When I first started working on it, I spent at least an hour a day on it. After about five days of that, I was so flat I was still below pitch will my tuning slide pushed all the way in. Valerie___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Insertion Depth - Different on my 2 horns
In a message dated 1/20/2008 8:23:19 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What am I to do about this? Which is right, which is wrong, and what, if anything, should I do, assuming I wish to continue to use this same mouthpiece on both horns. Hi Steve, How far the MPC goes into the receiver is not as important as where the end of the MPC is relative to the venturi. The location of the venturi can be located using small hole gauges or by having your local repair person finding it for you. I'd mark the location on the leadpipe with a small file. Most of my horns have this mark because a "standard" shank goes in various receivers from 1/4" on a Berg to over 3/4" on a Kruspe. I don't get concerned unless the end of the shank is more than 1/8" from the venturi. BTW, there may be more info in the email archives on this topic. Regarding lipping ... I play 2nd horn most of the time and I find that I am constantly changing pitch to match the 1st horn or other instruments. Pitch varies depending on others idea of 440 and where you fit in a chord. It keeps the lip and the right hand busy. My poor endurance is, I'm sure, age related.... my 2 cents worth. Regards, Jerry in Kansas City **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp0030002489 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Insertion Depth - Different on my 2 horns
> -Original Message- > From: Debbie Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Think about using your hand for small pitch changes it will > help your endurance. > > Debbie Schmidt Sent from my iPhone Debbie, my problem is that I'm not aware that I'm doing it, I just know I must be. It's very difficult for me to turn off the ears I spent so much time training - but I know it's what I need to do. When I've played for Chris Wilhjelm, he's commented on it - I remember one time he did a few pretty drastic things with the tuning slides and the notes all still came out the same. All right, I'm heading upstairs to practice now and try _not_ to lip things as much. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: tuning a double horn
Steve H. wrote: Interestingly enough, the earliest 103s didn't have a MAIN tuning slide either. The leadpipe fed directly into the change valve, then you had the little Bb slide on the front and the F slide on the back. Totally independent tuning! The earliest Pelletier model Kings with the piston thumb valve did the same thing. - Wow, that must have been a really early Pelletier Schmidt. I have one made circa 1928 that has a main tuning slide + independent Bb and F slides. I will just mention another oddity to that horn. It came stock with an Alexander taper on the mouthpipe. In fact it plays better with an Alexander brand mouthpiece than it does with anything else-it sort of comes more alive. I wonder if all of the pre WWII HN White horns were that way or just the Pelletier Schmidt? The Jack Attack! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Mouthpiece Insertion Depth - Different on my 2 horns
Think about using your hand for small pitch changes it will help your endurance. Debbie Schmidt Sent from my iPhone On Jan 20, 2008, at 9:21 PM, "Steve Freides" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Horn #1 = Alexander Bb single, vintage ~1975. Horn #2 = Yamaha 666, vintage ~1982. Mouthpiece = Pizka. I measured how far the mpc goes into the lead pipe on each because I noticed it goes in less far on the Yamaha. Alex = 24 mm insertion depth Yamaha = 19 mm insertion depth What am I to do about this? Which is right, which is wrong, and what, if anything, should I do, assuming I wish to continue to use this same mouthpiece on both horns. As I've mentioned in the past, I'm an amateur horn player with a long background as a professional musician and with perfect pitch. I will lip anything out of tune back into tune and I rarely notice when I do this. So far as I can tell, the difference in insertion depth isn't a problem, but I thought I should ask because I'm hoping, as time goes on, I might actually learn to play without lipping things and then I might have a problem. I suspect that my poor endurance as a horn player is related to the fact that I am forever lipping out of tune notes. Thanks in advance for your advice. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jasoncat%40aol.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpiece Insertion Depth - Different on my 2 horns
Steve wrote: Horn #1 = Alexander Bb single, vintage ~1975. Horn #2 = Yamaha 666, vintage ~1982. Mouthpiece = Pizka. I measured how far the mpc goes into the lead pipe on each because I noticed it goes in less far on the Yamaha. Alex = 24 mm insertion depth Yamaha = 19 mm insertion depth What am I to do about this? Which is right, which is wrong, and what, if anything, should I do, assuming I wish to continue to use this same mouthpiece on both horns. Steve, the old European mouthpipe taper generally and the Alexander taper in particular is designed with the venturi point farther into the mouthpipe than the loose US standard of 1/2" - 5/8". It is just a different design element and nothing to be too concerned about. Now if you had said that one Yamaha was 19mm and the other was 24mm that would be unusual. The Jack Attack! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Mouthpiece Insertion Depth - Different on my 2 horns
Horn #1 = Alexander Bb single, vintage ~1975. Horn #2 = Yamaha 666, vintage ~1982. Mouthpiece = Pizka. I measured how far the mpc goes into the lead pipe on each because I noticed it goes in less far on the Yamaha. Alex = 24 mm insertion depth Yamaha = 19 mm insertion depth What am I to do about this? Which is right, which is wrong, and what, if anything, should I do, assuming I wish to continue to use this same mouthpiece on both horns. As I've mentioned in the past, I'm an amateur horn player with a long background as a professional musician and with perfect pitch. I will lip anything out of tune back into tune and I rarely notice when I do this. So far as I can tell, the difference in insertion depth isn't a problem, but I thought I should ask because I'm hoping, as time goes on, I might actually learn to play without lipping things and then I might have a problem. I suspect that my poor endurance as a horn player is related to the fact that I am forever lipping out of tune notes. Thanks in advance for your advice. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Tuning of a double horn
Tuning of a double horn Yes, it is a Holton horn. Thank you for that information about what that slide is. That water slide (with the symbol) was jammed way out when I first acquiered the horn. After we finally got it out we saw that the slide must have been dropped because the end of the one side was bent which had been why it was jammed immovable to begin with. Now it works. The slide is only a fraction of an inch out past it's mark. When I first got the horn I noticed it was difficult to tune the F side perfectly. When we finally got that slide unjammed and I got it back in it was obvious that the horn tuned to itself much easier. It was a relief to find out what the problem was. Still, it can't be totally in either. Don't know why. I have checked it with tuners many times and there seems to be the slightest off balance if it is in all the way. Maybe it's just one of those funny things about the fact each horn is different. Besides the fact there is never any water there I don't like to pull that slide because it still is slightly out of round enough that it is a nuisance to pull and put back in. So, it pretty much stays in place. The hand position I mentioned was NOT how I play the horn. I was referring to the fact that jamming the hand in all the way while trying to get the 1st initial tuning of the slides into a reasonable position for the horn deadends the sound and doesn't make tuning it any easier. We had one horn player that even the director had to kindly remind her a few times that they were muffling their sound with their hand position. My suggestions were just for added help. I can't see where exact measurements given would always work for every horn made even if it is the same model. There are too many variables. I do not have no trouble playing in tune with other instruments. If I am out I adjust accordingly as best I can. Just a quote so that all don't think I'm just assuming so. Once, while playing the same notes along up high with our lead player on a particular passage, the conductor asked if I had even been playing. Without hesitation our lead player avidly said yes. Well, have to go visit with one of the grandkids. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: tuning a double horn
Interestingly enough, the earliest 103s didn't have a MAIN tuning slide either. The leadpipe fed directly into the change valve, then you had the little Bb slide on the front and the F slide on the back. Totally independent tuning! The earliest Pelletier model Kings with the piston thumb valve did the same thing. I'm imagining that the biggest drawback was not having a slide to pull for emptying water. Does anybody know of any other horns that were made that way? - Steve Mumford Jack wrote: The Alexander 103 model does not have this slide (water slide) at all. The Alexander 103 has the shared main tuning slide at the end of the lead pipe. It has an independent F horn slide just to the right of that. Turning the horn over, it has an independent Bb slide just off of the thumb valve and of course it has the six slides for the other three valves. Professor Pizka has already stated some good general starting points for these slides. I would also say that the newer Alexander 103 horns are more consistent than some vintage versions with regards to tuning and evenness of scale. The Jack Attack! ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horn Stick
On 20 Jan 2008, at 1:05 pm, Melvin Baldwin wrote: I'm considering purchasing a Horn Stick or a Pip (Pyp?) Stick. They both differ in method of attachment to the horn, and at least in the pictures, also on which leg the device rests. They differ considerably. The PipStick mounts solidly (solder) and each one must be custom made and mounted by a technician. Once adjusted, there is no movement and, it becomes a rigid part of the horn. The Horn Sticks I've used are self installed clamp-ons and have a flexible connection. This means that, although they support the weight of the horn, there is an element of balance required and they don't feel nearly as secure as the PipStick. Another thing to consider with all of them is the mounting bracket location. It's not easy to find a location that still allows the horn to fit easily in its case. That can be a problem. I settled on the Stick that uses a single mount point (rather than bridging across two tubes) that I could fit 'inside' the wrap of my Paxman 23 in a well braced area. If it wasn't such a hassle, I'd go for the PipStick (I may still) but the Horn Sticks work pretty well. HTH Tom ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Horn Stick
Hi everybody, I'm considering purchasing a Horn Stick or a Pip (Pyp?) Stick. They both differ in method of attachment to the horn, and at least in the pictures, also on which leg the device rests. I also have reservations about rotating my horn to empty my water-seems it could be quite awkward. Has anyone had some positive experience with one of these devices? I'm hoping this device will help with both posture and tension. I see the inventor of the Pyp Stick was prompted by the Alexander Technique-again relating to tension and posture. And finally, is there any sacrifice of tone or resonance? Melvin _ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
