[Hornlist] Stolen horn recovered
Hello Everyone, Kevin Brooks' stolen horn was found in an orange grove not far from his home .It had been removed from the case. No mouthpieces were found yet, but when Kevin has time, he'll look for them where the horn was found. Thanks for your concerns, Carolyn Blice **Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Giardinelli C12?
Hello all, I’m looking for an original straight-sided Giardinelli C12, preferably a two piece. Anyone have one they are willing to sell? Many thanks, Dan Wions ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments
For the record, I'm not optimistic about this situation. That was someone else. Yes, Chinese manufacturers may soon turn out acceptable school horns, but some will also turn out counterfeit name-brand horns, much as they do with other items. A seller on eBay will list what looks like an older 8D, complete with a legitimate serial number and Conn engravings, as well as some simulated wear. A well-intentioned buyer knowing not to buy a Selman or other well-known crap horn will buy this thinking it's an Elkhart 8D. Heck, even the forged serial number checks out. The buyer gets the horn and it plays sort of OK, and many will be none the wiser until it's time to get a repair done and it's nothing more than a high end Selman, Schmort, Corn, Alexnerdan, Yummyhan or what have you. Chinese counterfeiters know no bounds when it comes to screwing people. John Baumgart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Warner Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:40 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments On 1 May 2008, at 11:20 pm, John Baumgart wrote: Speaking of Chinese made horns, Kit wrote: A couple of years in the future when the manufacturers learn what they're doing, these instruments may start to become quite acceptable. I agree. I'm one who's actually optimistic about the future of Chinese instruments. It's already happening with other brass instruments. Importers are demanding a high level of quality and instruments based on proven designs. One brand is advertising that they've had their lead pipes designed by a well known and respected custom instrument maker. The prices are rising with the quality but I've been told that it's still possible to get, for example, a trumpet that's _very_ similar to a Yamaha Xeno for approximately half the price. In the Brass Band world, Virtuosi in England are selling what to all intents and purposes are professional quality instruments at student prices. It's a growing area and there's no reason it can't happen with horns. I'd almost be willing to bet that right now, somewhere out there there is a very well built and good playing Han 8D or 103. All the best, Tom ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments
-Original Message- From: John Baumgart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 6:42 PM To: 'The Horn List' Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments For the record, I'm not optimistic about this situation. That was someone else. Yes, Chinese manufacturers may soon turn out acceptable school horns, but some will also turn out counterfeit name-brand horns, much as they do with other items. A seller on eBay will list what looks like an older 8D, complete with a legitimate serial number and Conn engravings, as well as some simulated wear. A well-intentioned buyer knowing not to buy a Selman or other well-known crap horn will buy this thinking it's an Elkhart 8D. Heck, even the forged serial number checks out. The buyer gets the horn and it plays sort of OK, and many will be none the wiser until it's time to get a repair done and it's nothing more than a high end Selman, Schmort, Corn, Alexnerdan, Yummyhan or what have you. Chinese counterfeiters know no bounds when it comes to screwing people. All counterfeiters know no bounds when it comes to screwing people. -S- John Baumgart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] du] On Behalf Of Tom Warner Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:40 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments On 1 May 2008, at 11:20 pm, John Baumgart wrote: Speaking of Chinese made horns, Kit wrote: A couple of years in the future when the manufacturers learn what they're doing, these instruments may start to become quite acceptable. I agree. I'm one who's actually optimistic about the future of Chinese instruments. It's already happening with other brass instruments. Importers are demanding a high level of quality and instruments based on proven designs. One brand is advertising that they've had their lead pipes designed by a well known and respected custom instrument maker. The prices are rising with the quality but I've been told that it's still possible to get, for example, a trumpet that's _very_ similar to a Yamaha Xeno for approximately half the price. In the Brass Band world, Virtuosi in England are selling what to all intents and purposes are professional quality instruments at student prices. It's a growing area and there's no reason it can't happen with horns. I'd almost be willing to bet that right now, somewhere out there there is a very well built and good playing Han 8D or 103. All the best, Tom ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%4 0comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridays computer.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.7/1411 - Release Date: 5/2/2008 8:02 AM ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments
John- No offense intended, but that is a rather myopic view on the subject and quite biggoted against the Chinese to boot. In general, it is Westerners behind the counterfeit products coming out of China. The Chinese get paid the same to do their work regardless of what name gets stamped on the final product or whose product theirs visually imitates. There are typically two (gross generalizations follow) types of products coming from China - those designed and manufactured by the Chinese and then sold to Westerners and rebranded for their own purposes (such as entry-level pro audio gear - eg. KEL microphones and SM Pro Audio gear) and then gear which is designed and labeled by Western companies and then manufactered by the Chinese. This is often where the trouble comes in - such as again in the case of pro audio Behringer - a company world renowned for ripping off others' designs and having cheaper, poor quality versions made by the Chinese for little money and even less quality. (However, on the flip side of the coin, some companies have outsourced to China with great results - such as Quad Loudspeakers and Mojave Audio.) In this case, I would comfortably assume that the Chinese companies are simply being told build this horn to this specification and then some western company (the one that is responsible for the design and sale to Westerners) slaps a similar appearing name and serial number on it. This is so common in the European and American marketplace, it's not even funny. I recently had an opportunity to speak via e-mail with a person who was inadvertently behind the creation (or build that is) of a fake/fraudulent replica of the venerable Shure SM57 microphone. He was not aware of the original 57 and since he doesn't have access to many Western websites, he wasn't aware that he was creating a fraud copy. Just some food for thought. Cheers, Jeremy -Original Message- From: John Baumgart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Horn List' horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: 5/2/08 6:41 PM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments For the record, I'm not optimistic about this situation. That was someone else. Yes, Chinese manufacturers may soon turn out acceptable school horns, but some will also turn out counterfeit name-brand horns, much as they do with other items. A seller on eBay will list what looks like an older 8D, complete with a legitimate serial number and Conn engravings, as well as some simulated wear. A well-intentioned buyer knowing not to buy a Selman or other well-known crap horn will buy this thinking it's an Elkhart 8D. Heck, even the forged serial number checks out. The buyer gets the horn and it plays sort of OK, and many will be none the wiser until it's time to get a repair done and it's nothing more than a high end Selman, Schmort, Corn, Alexnerdan, Yummyhan or what have you. Chinese counterfeiters know no bounds when it comes to screwing people. John Baumgart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Warner Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:40 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments On 1 May 2008, at 11:20 pm, John Baumgart wrote: Speaking of Chinese made horns, Kit wrote: A couple of years in the future when the manufacturers learn what they're doing, these instruments may start to become quite acceptable. I agree. I'm one who's actually optimistic about the future of Chinese instruments. It's already happening with other brass instruments. Importers are demanding a high level of quality and instruments based on proven designs. One brand is advertising that they've had their lead pipes designed by a well known and respected custom instrument maker. The prices are rising with the quality but I've been told that it's still possible to get, for example, a trumpet that's _very_ similar to a Yamaha Xeno for approximately half the price. In the Brass Band world, Virtuosi in England are selling what to all intents and purposes are professional quality instruments at student prices. It's a growing area and there's no reason it can't happen with horns. I'd almost be willing to bet that right now, somewhere out there there is a very well built and good playing Han 8D or 103. All the best, Tom ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jeremy%40sublymerecords.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments
There are some very good violins being made in China these days. Nothing to compete with the Cremona masters, of course, but very respectable instruments that are hand made by master craftsmen. The best of them are not marketed as anything they are not. My guess is that Chinese horn makers will also gain in skill and reputation under their own names. They are catching up fast. David Lamb in Seattle ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments
At 5:56 PM -0700 5/2/08, David Lamb wrote: There are some very good violins being made in China these days. Nothing to compete with the Cremona masters, of course, but very respectable instruments that are hand made by master craftsmen. The best of them are not marketed as anything they are not. My guess is that Chinese horn makers will also gain in skill and reputation under their own names. They are catching up fast. I did a bit of investigating a few months ago of Chinese string instruments. One importer mentions that all the instruments need new strings bridges, major adjustment, and many will have gluing to be done. The retail prices I've seen are about three times the dealer cost, which seems fair considering the work which must be done. Regards, Carlberg -- Carlberg Jones Skype - carlbergbmug Cornista - Orquesta Sinfónica de Aguascalientes Aguascalientes, Ags. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments
What a hoot! No offense intended then the comment about such a viiew being bigotted. On 5/2/08, Jeremy Cucco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John- No offense intended, but that is a rather myopic view on the subject and quite biggoted against the Chinese to boot. In general, it is Westerners behind the counterfeit products coming out of China. The Chinese get paid the same to do their work regardless of what name gets stamped on the final product or whose product theirs visually imitates. There are typically two (gross generalizations follow) types of products coming from China - those designed and manufactured by the Chinese and then sold to Westerners and rebranded for their own purposes (such as entry-level pro audio gear - eg. KEL microphones and SM Pro Audio gear) and then gear which is designed and labeled by Western companies and then manufactered by the Chinese. This is often where the trouble comes in - such as again in the case of pro audio Behringer - a company world renowned for ripping off others' designs and having cheaper, poor quality versions made by the Chinese for little money and even less quality. (However, on the flip side of the coin, some companies have outsourced to China with great results - such as Quad Loudspeakers and Mojave Audio.) In this case, I would comfortably assume that the Chinese companies are simply being told build this horn to this specification and then some western company (the one that is responsible for the design and sale to Westerners) slaps a similar appearing name and serial number on it. This is so common in the European and American marketplace, it's not even funny. I recently had an opportunity to speak via e-mail with a person who was inadvertently behind the creation (or build that is) of a fake/fraudulent replica of the venerable Shure SM57 microphone. He was not aware of the original 57 and since he doesn't have access to many Western websites, he wasn't aware that he was creating a fraud copy. Just some food for thought. Cheers, Jeremy -Original Message- From: John Baumgart [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Horn List' horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: 5/2/08 6:41 PM Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments For the record, I'm not optimistic about this situation. That was someone else. Yes, Chinese manufacturers may soon turn out acceptable school horns, but some will also turn out counterfeit name-brand horns, much as they do with other items. A seller on eBay will list what looks like an older 8D, complete with a legitimate serial number and Conn engravings, as well as some simulated wear. A well-intentioned buyer knowing not to buy a Selman or other well-known crap horn will buy this thinking it's an Elkhart 8D. Heck, even the forged serial number checks out. The buyer gets the horn and it plays sort of OK, and many will be none the wiser until it's time to get a repair done and it's nothing more than a high end Selman, Schmort, Corn, Alexnerdan, Yummyhan or what have you. Chinese counterfeiters know no bounds when it comes to screwing people. John Baumgart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Warner Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 3:40 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Chinese instruments On 1 May 2008, at 11:20 pm, John Baumgart wrote: Speaking of Chinese made horns, Kit wrote: A couple of years in the future when the manufacturers learn what they're doing, these instruments may start to become quite acceptable. I agree. I'm one who's actually optimistic about the future of Chinese instruments. It's already happening with other brass instruments. Importers are demanding a high level of quality and instruments based on proven designs. One brand is advertising that they've had their lead pipes designed by a well known and respected custom instrument maker. The prices are rising with the quality but I've been told that it's still possible to get, for example, a trumpet that's _very_ similar to a Yamaha Xeno for approximately half the price. In the Brass Band world, Virtuosi in England are selling what to all intents and purposes are professional quality instruments at student prices. It's a growing area and there's no reason it can't happen with horns. I'd almost be willing to bet that right now, somewhere out there there is a very well built and good playing Han 8D or 103. All the best, Tom ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/john.baumgart%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/jeremy%40sublymerecords.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at
